Re: Gunsmiths: short fire forming
[Re: Wolfdog91]
#7485222
02/04/22 09:16 PM
02/04/22 09:16 PM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 16,150 Tennessee
Scuba1
"color blind Kraut"
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"color blind Kraut"
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 16,150
Tennessee
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As the chamber you are forming into is larger than the cartridge, the material that has to cover the new found areas has to come from somewhere and that is the length of the brass. Fired brass is also shorter than a piece you have run through the die. The same applies in reverse. The die is smaller than the brass and so the extra material has to go some place ...... in this case it gets longer.
Let's go Brandon
"Shall not comply" with morons who don't understand "shall not infringe."
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Re: Gunsmiths: short fire forming
[Re: Scuba1]
#7485228
02/04/22 09:19 PM
02/04/22 09:19 PM
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Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,482 Ne pa
Jerry Jr.
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Ne pa
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As the chamber you are forming into is larger than the cartridge, the material that has to cover the new found areas has to come from somewhere and that is the length of the brass. Fired brass is also shorter than a piece you have run through the die. The same applies in reverse. The die is smaller than the brass and so the extra material has to go some place ...... in this case it gets longer. He is talking about the shoulder. Wolfdog- Did you measure the fireformed ones before or after you annealed them?
Time is more precious than gold if you know how to spend it .... but what do I know, I'm just a dumb farmer.~My Dad NRA LIFE MEMBER, Endowment Member
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Re: Gunsmiths: short fire forming
[Re: Scuba1]
#7485248
02/04/22 09:33 PM
02/04/22 09:33 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 11,771 Amite county Mississippi
Wolfdog91
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OP
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Amite county Mississippi
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As the chamber you are forming into is larger than the cartridge, the material that has to cover the new found areas has to come from somewhere and that is the length of the brass. Fired brass is also shorter than a piece you have run through the die. The same applies in reverse. The die is smaller than the brass and so the extra material has to go some place ...... in this case it gets longer. Ahhhh ok. O was thinking mabye had to do something with a larger chamber ,I remember reading about how these H&R's are notorious for having giraffe throats so kinda though a loose chamber wouldn't be too far off
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Re: Gunsmiths: short fire forming
[Re: Jerry Jr.]
#7485249
02/04/22 09:33 PM
02/04/22 09:33 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 11,771 Amite county Mississippi
Wolfdog91
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Amite county Mississippi
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As the chamber you are forming into is larger than the cartridge, the material that has to cover the new found areas has to come from somewhere and that is the length of the brass. Fired brass is also shorter than a piece you have run through the die. The same applies in reverse. The die is smaller than the brass and so the extra material has to go some place ...... in this case it gets longer. He is talking about the shoulder. Wolfdog- Did you measure the fireformed ones before or after you annealed them? Before and after
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Re: Gunsmiths: short fire forming
[Re: Wolfdog91]
#7485290
02/04/22 10:08 PM
02/04/22 10:08 PM
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Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 135 NC
garyll1959
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Wolf, for my match / F class rifles, I don't consider the brass fully formed until the third firing. First shot, they're usually short. Neck sized, loaded and shot the second time. After the second shot, the shoulder is pretty much where it needs to be, so resized in a neck bushing die for the third firing. After the third, brass gets annealed, and resized with a body die that's cut with the same reamer that cut the chamber in the barrel,, setting shoulder bump to about 1 thou., just to the point that the bolt has no resistance on closing on the resized brass. Neck diameter is set for about one and a half thousandths of neck tension, keep in mind this is for single load, bolt actions. After the third firing, it's the same routine for the life of the brass.. Anneal, 1 thou. shoulder bump, set neck tension. For the AR match rifles, it's pretty much the same, except I use a full length resizing die, set for about 2 and a half thousandths shoulder bump and 3 thou neck tension.
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Re: Gunsmiths: short fire forming
[Re: Wolfdog91]
#7485915
02/05/22 03:25 PM
02/05/22 03:25 PM
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 3,067 Wyoming
cmcf
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Wyoming
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Sloppy chamber; Scuba nailed it
“The world is governed by very different personages from what is imagined” B. Disraeli
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Re: Gunsmiths: short fire forming
[Re: Wolfdog91]
#7485919
02/05/22 03:30 PM
02/05/22 03:30 PM
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 3,067 Wyoming
cmcf
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Wyoming
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You get the same effects when fire forming for an Ackley Improved. First couple fireings brass is short
“The world is governed by very different personages from what is imagined” B. Disraeli
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Re: Gunsmiths: short fire forming
[Re: Wolfdog91]
#7485920
02/05/22 03:31 PM
02/05/22 03:31 PM
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 3,067 Wyoming
cmcf
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trapper
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Wyoming
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You get the same effects when fire forming for an Ackley Improved. First couple fireings brass is short
“The world is governed by very different personages from what is imagined” B. Disraeli
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Re: Gunsmiths: short fire forming
[Re: Wolfdog91]
#7485946
02/05/22 04:25 PM
02/05/22 04:25 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 10,404 Northeast Oklahoma
Mike in A-town
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Northeast Oklahoma
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Ok need to ask this because I'm super curious. Why would a rifle fire from brass short instead of longer ? And I'm talking about with full power factory ammo Am I picking up on this right... your "base to shoulder" length is shorter after firing than before it was fired? Edit: I'm tired... had to read what Scuba wrote again... He nailed it. Mike
Last edited by Mike in A-town; 02/05/22 04:34 PM.
One man with a gun may control 100 others who have none.
Vladimir Lenin
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