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Re: Ukraine, how does this end? [Re: Grandpa Trapper] #7532903
03/19/22 09:56 PM
03/19/22 09:56 PM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 11,771
Amite county Mississippi
Wolfdog91 Online sleepy
trapper
Wolfdog91  Online Sleepy
trapper

Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 11,771
Amite county Mississippi
Originally Posted by Grandpa Trapper
Originally Posted by Boco
You definitely will see chinese on your shores if you dont remain part of Nato.
US,Canada UK and others are the founding members of Nato.
You are as much a part of Nato as we are.
Nato Alliance was formed after WW2 to counter the Communist threat to Democracy.
The first cold war battle was the Berlin airlift against USSR right after the end of WW2.
Should have listened to Patton.


China isn’t coming on our shores the same reason Japan didn’t during World War 2. They know there will be a gun behind every rock and tree.

That and they don't have a blue water navy with anything one functional air craft and well where the heck are they actually goin to be able to drop anchor and disembark??

Re: Ukraine, how does this end? [Re: Grandpa Trapper] #7532907
03/19/22 10:00 PM
03/19/22 10:00 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,261
james bay frontierOnt.
B
Boco Offline
trapper
Boco  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,261
james bay frontierOnt.
Originally Posted by Grandpa Trapper
Originally Posted by Boco
You definitely will see chinese on your shores if you dont remain part of Nato.
US,Canada UK and others are the founding members of Nato.
You are as much a part of Nato as we are.
Nato Alliance was formed after WW2 to counter the Communist threat to Democracy.
The first cold war battle was the Berlin airlift against USSR right after the end of WW2.
Should have listened to Patton.


China isn’t coming on our shores the same reason Japan didn’t during World War 2. They know there will be a gun behind every rock and tree.

The guns you own are useless against army weaponry.


Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: Ukraine, how does this end? [Re: foxkidd44] #7532908
03/19/22 10:00 PM
03/19/22 10:00 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,548
Rodney,Ohio
SNIPERBBB Offline
trapper
SNIPERBBB  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,548
Rodney,Ohio
If nukes enter the equation, USA is on the loosing end for the general population. Outside the moscow and a few other cities, Russia is pretty much a third world nation.

Re: Ukraine, how does this end? [Re: foxkidd44] #7532910
03/19/22 10:01 PM
03/19/22 10:01 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,261
james bay frontierOnt.
B
Boco Offline
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Boco  Offline
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B

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,261
james bay frontierOnt.
Lots of hinterland there-not much of that in the USA.Pretty small landmass in comparison.

Last edited by Boco; 03/19/22 10:02 PM.

Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: Ukraine, how does this end? [Re: foxkidd44] #7532915
03/19/22 10:03 PM
03/19/22 10:03 PM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 11,771
Amite county Mississippi
Wolfdog91 Online sleepy
trapper
Wolfdog91  Online Sleepy
trapper

Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 11,771
Amite county Mississippi
I'm sure the Russians where saying the same thing when some p'ed off Chechen was throat shotting them with .22lr's sporting guns ( to the point the Russians actually developed a .22lr dmr deal for urban work). or what we said when some goat herder in flipflops would stall a whole platoon by popping one guy with a old Lee Enfield from the side of a mountain. Or you know how some random Iraqi with $30 worth of copper sheeting ,random wiring a old cellphone some fertilizer and chuck of steel pipe could make a Shaped Charge IED that could blast though a half million dollar up armored MRAP.

Yeah no Billy Bob is gonna have a hay day using that random box of API in that 50 cal he had "just for fun"

Last edited by Wolfdog91; 03/19/22 10:07 PM.
Re: Ukraine, how does this end? [Re: foxkidd44] #7532917
03/19/22 10:04 PM
03/19/22 10:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 20,914
North East Kansas
Marty Offline
trapper
Marty  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 20,914
North East Kansas
ya'll need to study up on keeping safe from fallout....


E
'Honey Badger Militia'
Sleep, the anti woke adote.
Re: Ukraine, how does this end? [Re: Wolfdog91] #7532920
03/19/22 10:07 PM
03/19/22 10:07 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,261
james bay frontierOnt.
B
Boco Offline
trapper
Boco  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,261
james bay frontierOnt.
Exactly.


Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: Ukraine, how does this end? [Re: Marty] #7532921
03/19/22 10:08 PM
03/19/22 10:08 PM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 11,771
Amite county Mississippi
Wolfdog91 Online sleepy
trapper
Wolfdog91  Online Sleepy
trapper

Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 11,771
Amite county Mississippi
Originally Posted by Marty
ya'll need to study up on keeping safe from fallout....

If where about to get nuked imma figure out where the first one is dropping and go sit there....not doin this mad Max stuff laugh

Re: Ukraine, how does this end? [Re: foxkidd44] #7532923
03/19/22 10:11 PM
03/19/22 10:11 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 298
Ohio
Keith Daniels Offline
trapper
Keith Daniels  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 298
Ohio
When they know they will not lose access to the Black Sea, which they would potentially lose if Ukraine joined NATO, as suggested by our brain dead VP and triggered the move.


Keith Daniels
Retired OSTA President as of 4:50 P M 9/12/20
Re: Ukraine, how does this end? [Re: foxkidd44] #7532926
03/19/22 10:13 PM
03/19/22 10:13 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,786
Western Shore Delaware
SJA Offline
trapper
SJA  Offline
trapper

Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,786
Western Shore Delaware
Very few understand the TRUE "Art of War".


"Humans are the hardest people to get along with."
Dr. Phillip Snow
Re: Ukraine, how does this end? [Re: Wolfdog91] #7532937
03/19/22 10:27 PM
03/19/22 10:27 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 16,150
Tennessee
Scuba1 Offline
"color blind Kraut"
Scuba1  Offline
"color blind Kraut"

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 16,150
Tennessee
Originally Posted by Wolfdog91
With all the natural resources and what not we have ,what would be the point in using a nuke ? Especially with the risk of mutual destruction?


Neither Putin nor Sniffy have a bright future in politics and are past their sell by date.


Let's go Brandon

"Shall not comply" with morons who don't understand "shall not infringe."
Re: Ukraine, how does this end? [Re: foxkidd44] #7532945
03/19/22 10:33 PM
03/19/22 10:33 PM
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 6,323
se South Dakota
NonPCfed Offline
trapper
NonPCfed  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 6,323
se South Dakota
So few people really know about real nuclear weapons and nuclear war fighting strategies but its not surprising given what has been fed to them over many decades.

First of all, most people in the combatant nations, let alone the world, aren't going to be "vaporized" by the heat of a detonation unless there is a total city busting campaign by one or both sides. Vaporizing heat of direct weapon effects is closest to the denotation point. The blast wave has greater range and killing potential but its still limited by distance and to some aspect, the lay of the land, especially in an urban area. Will get to fallout radiation in a bit but direct weapons radiation exposure generally would occur within the high heat or high blast wave areas so most people wouldn't die from that effect but one or the others just mentioned.

News flash for the "megaton" heads, very few of those weapons are currently on anyone's missiles. A couple of reasons why, one nuclear physics don't work in an exponential way when comparing yields vs direct weapons effects area extent. A 20 megaton warhead isn't going to have a 1,000x more high heat and blast wave distance as a 20 kiloton weapon, Sorry to disappoint, it just isn't going to happen. I can't remember the exact distance increase that big megaton weapons do for direct weapons effects but its surprising not that much, maybe 3x or maybe more but no way hundreds of times greater spread. The second reason why there are few megaton weapons out there is that MIRVing changed things a lot. What's better in a war fighting operation, launching a missile with 1 meagton or larger warhead or launching a missile with 3 to 10 warheads?? I believe Minuteman III carried (ies) 3- 200 kilo range weapons, Peacekeeper 10 warheads and Trident II 10 warheads as well. Most are at max 300 kilos a piece, probably smaller.

Ok, "fallout". It is different than direct weapon effect radiation release that happens near detonation zone. Fallout are materials that has become radioactive, such as soil, concrete, whatever that has come in close contact with a detonating device, such as missile silo busters, deep command busters, etc and then comes back to the ground at a later date farther away. The "best" way to "kill" cities is with air bursts at an optimal height and as such these detonations don't cause fallout. As someone who lived with 150 U.S. missile silos 200-350 miles (more beyond that depending on the wind directions) west of me, I used to worry about the real threat of fallout a lot. But the Minuteman IIs are no more, so except for the 2-3 bases that still have Minuteman IIIs and the 1-2 bases that has Peacekeeprs, there are far fewer U.S. dug in land based missile silos that would take near ground hits to take them out. The "fallout" threat in the U.S. is much less now than what it would have been say in the 1980s through sometime in the late 1990s.

Then there is the "nuclear winter" theory and other long lasting issues that I won't address.

With all this said, would millions of people die in a massive nuclear exchange between NATO and Russia (and maybe the Chinese), yes, probably, especially if all out attacks are done mostly on metropolitan areas. That would be bad juju SO DON'T DO IT!! But the idea that most of humanity would die in a day to a year or so later is not realistic. Not even really close...


"And God said, Let us make man in our image �and let them have dominion �and all the creatures that move along the ground".
Genesis 1:26
Re: Ukraine, how does this end? [Re: Wolfdog91] #7532949
03/19/22 10:36 PM
03/19/22 10:36 PM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 849
Washington
wildflights Offline
trapper
wildflights  Offline
trapper

Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 849
Washington
Originally Posted by Wolfdog91


That and they don't have a blue water navy with anything one functional air craft and well where the heck are they actually goin to be able to drop anchor and disembark??


@Wolfdog91

You can't seriously be further off base on the subject.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/05/china/china-world-biggest-navy-intl-hnk-ml-dst/index.html


Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire. -Gustav Mahler
Re: Ukraine, how does this end? [Re: foxkidd44] #7532955
03/19/22 10:40 PM
03/19/22 10:40 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 20,914
North East Kansas
Marty Offline
trapper
Marty  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 20,914
North East Kansas
china will fill containers with nk troops and send em over to port la...


E
'Honey Badger Militia'
Sleep, the anti woke adote.
Re: Ukraine, how does this end? [Re: wildflights] #7532964
03/19/22 10:54 PM
03/19/22 10:54 PM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 11,771
Amite county Mississippi
Wolfdog91 Online sleepy
trapper
Wolfdog91  Online Sleepy
trapper

Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 11,771
Amite county Mississippi
Originally Posted by wildflights
Originally Posted by Wolfdog91


That and they don't have a blue water navy with anything one functional air craft and well where the heck are they actually goin to be able to drop anchor and disembark??


@Wolfdog91

You can't seriously be further off base on the subject.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/05/china/china-world-biggest-navy-intl-hnk-ml-dst/index.html

I did say blue water. And I stand corrected they do have two air craft carriers and more ships. but From every thing I'm reading in that it's not like ours. Do they have a large navy ? Seems like it yes however do they have the range capability and support of ours on a long range basis? I don't see it. You can just look at the "battle ships" logistics is what you need. And if you don't have enough to back it up well...You can have a million men that can hit your local neighborhood but if they can't go hit somone in the next county over but that county can...well.

Re: Ukraine, how does this end? [Re: foxkidd44] #7532966
03/19/22 10:56 PM
03/19/22 10:56 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 20,914
North East Kansas
Marty Offline
trapper
Marty  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 20,914
North East Kansas
taiwan is pretty close to china....

Last edited by Wolfdog91; 03/19/22 10:58 PM.

E
'Honey Badger Militia'
Sleep, the anti woke adote.
Re: Ukraine, how does this end? [Re: Marty] #7532968
03/19/22 10:59 PM
03/19/22 10:59 PM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 11,771
Amite county Mississippi
Wolfdog91 Online sleepy
trapper
Wolfdog91  Online Sleepy
trapper

Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 11,771
Amite county Mississippi
Originally Posted by Marty
taiwan is pretty close to china....

My point exactly ( btw sorry I type my response in your instead of a quote at first )

Re: Ukraine, how does this end? [Re: Boco] #7532980
03/19/22 11:13 PM
03/19/22 11:13 PM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 9,908
Arkansas
J
J Staton Offline
trapper
J Staton  Offline
trapper
J

Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 9,908
Arkansas
Originally Posted by Boco
You definitely will see chinese on your shores if you dont remain part of Nato.
US,Canada UK and others are the founding members of Nato.
You are as much a part of Nato as we are.
Nato Alliance was formed after WW2 to counter the Communist threat to Democracy.
The first cold war battle was the Berlin airlift against USSR right after the end of WW2.
Should have listened to Patton.

I hope your right boco. The CCP released a little virus that killed a bunch of folks. One of those victims was my brother. I would relish a chance to wade some of those Chinese communist into the beaver swamp.


James 1: 19-20
Re: Ukraine, how does this end? [Re: foxkidd44] #7532983
03/19/22 11:20 PM
03/19/22 11:20 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,261
james bay frontierOnt.
B
Boco Offline
trapper
Boco  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,261
james bay frontierOnt.
Me too.


Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: Ukraine, how does this end? [Re: NonPCfed] #7532985
03/19/22 11:26 PM
03/19/22 11:26 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,261
james bay frontierOnt.
B
Boco Offline
trapper
Boco  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,261
james bay frontierOnt.
Originally Posted by NonPCfed
So few people really know about real nuclear weapons and nuclear war fighting strategies but its not surprising given what has been fed to them over many decades.

First of all, most people in the combatant nations, let alone the world, aren't going to be "vaporized" by the heat of a detonation unless there is a total city busting campaign by one or both sides. Vaporizing heat of direct weapon effects is closest to the denotation point. The blast wave has greater range and killing potential but its still limited by distance and to some aspect, the lay of the land, especially in an urban area. Will get to fallout radiation in a bit but direct weapons radiation exposure generally would occur within the high heat or high blast wave areas so most people wouldn't die from that effect but one or the others just mentioned.

News flash for the "megaton" heads, very few of those weapons are currently on anyone's missiles. A couple of reasons why, one nuclear physics don't work in an exponential way when comparing yields vs direct weapons effects area extent. A 20 megaton warhead isn't going to have a 1,000x more high heat and blast wave distance as a 20 kiloton weapon, Sorry to disappoint, it just isn't going to happen. I can't remember the exact distance increase that big megaton weapons do for direct weapons effects but its surprising not that much, maybe 3x or maybe more but no way hundreds of times greater spread. The second reason why there are few megaton weapons out there is that MIRVing changed things a lot. What's better in a war fighting operation, launching a missile with 1 meagton or larger warhead or launching a missile with 3 to 10 warheads?? I believe Minuteman III carried (ies) 3- 200 kilo range weapons, Peacekeeper 10 warheads and Trident II 10 warheads as well. Most are at max 300 kilos a piece, probably smaller.

Ok, "fallout". It is different than direct weapon effect radiation release that happens near detonation zone. Fallout are materials that has become radioactive, such as soil, concrete, whatever that has come in close contact with a detonating device, such as missile silo busters, deep command busters, etc and then comes back to the ground at a later date farther away. The "best" way to "kill" cities is with air bursts at an optimal height and as such these detonations don't cause fallout. As someone who lived with 150 U.S. missile silos 200-350 miles (more beyond that depending on the wind directions) west of me, I used to worry about the real threat of fallout a lot. But the Minuteman IIs are no more, so except for the 2-3 bases that still have Minuteman IIIs and the 1-2 bases that has Peacekeeprs, there are far fewer U.S. dug in land based missile silos that would take near ground hits to take them out. The "fallout" threat in the U.S. is much less now than what it would have been say in the 1980s through sometime in the late 1990s.

Then there is the "nuclear winter" theory and other long lasting issues that I won't address.

With all this said, would millions of people die in a massive nuclear exchange between NATO and Russia (and maybe the Chinese), yes, probably, especially if all out attacks are done mostly on metropolitan areas. That would be bad juju SO DON'T DO IT!! But the idea that most of humanity would die in a day to a year or so later is not realistic. Not even really close...




OH,well thats not so bad then.
Let er rip.


Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
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