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Re: Temptation & Free Will [Re: HobbieTrapper] #7542732
03/29/22 10:51 AM
03/29/22 10:51 AM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 312
Utah
foxhunter52 Offline
trapper
foxhunter52  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 312
Utah
Temptation was even a part of Christ's life. I believe it is a necessary part of mortality. I also believe we all sin and make mistakes. Why else the principle of repentence and the atonement. The ability to learn to overcome temptation, and to learn to make correct choices in our life are the things that shape us and define the person we will become. Just my view.

Re: Temptation & Free Will [Re: HobbieTrapper] #7542768
03/29/22 11:36 AM
03/29/22 11:36 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,186
Hancock Co., Indiana
Kart29 Offline
trapper
Kart29  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,186
Hancock Co., Indiana
Originally Posted by HobbieTrapper
So did Eve have free will before being tempted or did temptation bring the free will?


I'm pretty sure Adam and Eve had a free will before being tempted.

This is something I've been thinking and wondering about for years. I doubt I'll ever have the answer fully resolved in my mind.

C.S. Lewis wrote that it is intrinsically impossible to create two sentient beings, one of which has a free will, without having the possibility of a conflict of wills. At some point, there is the possibility for being "A" to will something opposed to being "B". Of course, he explains it much better. So, when God created mankind with a free and independent will, the creative act necessarily brought with it the intrinsic possibility of eventual sin - a falling short of complete conformance to God's will. Thus, it was intrinsically impossible for God to create a world with free-willed creatures without the possiblity of pain and conflict. That all make sense to me. (When we say that God is omnipotent and can do all things, we mean that he can do all his holy will - not that he can do what is intrinsically impossible.)

But eventually, when we are glorified with our Savior Christ Jesus, we expect God's redeemed people to be fully sanctified and free of our sin nature . If we are to be without sin in that glorified state (and we are told we will be), then I believe we will lose the free will we have now. I believe when we are in that glorified state, every thought will be brought into "captivity" to the obedience of Christ. In that condition we must no longer have the ability to desire and will in opposition to God's will. That might seem like a loss - a reduction of our status - to lose our freedom and ability to oppose God. But it's probably not. I long to live in a condition where all my being agrees with God and I do not, and cannot, oppose him in any way. I'd rather be a slave and captive of Christ than have my own freedom to exalt myself against him.

I don't know. I think you've asked some VERY deep questions that are REALLY hard to answer. I hope you have better luck finding an answer than I have.

Some people just shrug their shoulders and say, " oh well... we'll never be able to understand - we are just finite humans and can't understand the mind of God - so why even try?" But for me... when you really love someone, you desire to explore, examine, wonder about, and seek to know every detail of the beloved. If you stop trying to learn about, know and grow in understanding of someone, I wonder how much you really love them.


What from Christ that soul can sever,
Bound by everlasting bands?
None shall take thee
From the Strength of Israel's hands.

Re: Temptation & Free Will [Re: HobbieTrapper] #7542775
03/29/22 11:43 AM
03/29/22 11:43 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 24,880
williamsburg ks
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danny clifton Offline
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williamsburg ks
Where do Adam and Eve fit into Neanderthal DNA? What about Denisovan? Were they the "others" that Cain had to go live with?


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Temptation & Free Will [Re: HobbieTrapper] #7542778
03/29/22 11:48 AM
03/29/22 11:48 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,626
Northern Minnesota
BernieB. Offline
trapper
BernieB.  Offline
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Posts: 3,626
Northern Minnesota
There must be more to this question than I am seeing on the surface. Seems very easy to me, I have a free will and I am tempted.

Same with everyone else reading this.

Re: Temptation & Free Will [Re: HobbieTrapper] #7542807
03/29/22 12:24 PM
03/29/22 12:24 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,160
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PAskinner Offline
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Originally Posted by HobbieTrapper
Can we have free will without temptation?


Isn't the question backwards?
Can we have temptation without having free will?
I don't see how. If the will has no freedom, we are just automatons.


Right now Im having amnesia and dj vu at the same time. I think Ive forgotten this before.
Re: Temptation & Free Will [Re: HobbieTrapper] #7542809
03/29/22 12:28 PM
03/29/22 12:28 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,160
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Joined: Aug 2010
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Originally Posted by HobbieTrapper
Originally Posted by Bruce T
Then no we would not need free will with no temptation but there will always be temptation.


So did Eve have free will before being tempted or did temptation bring the free will?

Well, Adam was allowed to do a lot of things like naming the animals that would seem to require free will, so I think they always had it, but this was perhaps the first time they had a choice that could lead them in a wrong direction.


Right now Im having amnesia and dj vu at the same time. I think Ive forgotten this before.
Re: Temptation & Free Will [Re: HobbieTrapper] #7542818
03/29/22 12:48 PM
03/29/22 12:48 PM
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 1,269
Interior Alaska
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Oh Snap Offline
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Interior Alaska

Originally Posted by HobbieTrapper
Originally Posted by Bruce T
Then no we would not need free will with no temptation but there will always be temptation.


So did Eve have free will before being tempted or did temptation bring the free will?


I believe she had free will before because God told her not to eat the apple and bring free willed she did.

Free will is the ability to make choices otherwise we would be robots!



Last edited by Oh Snap; 03/29/22 01:00 PM.

I love the smell of burning spruce---I love the sound of a spring time goose---I love the feel of 40 below---from my trapline I will never go!
Re: Temptation & Free Will [Re: HobbieTrapper] #7542830
03/29/22 01:00 PM
03/29/22 01:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 556
South Central Kansas
KsTrapper88 Offline
trapper
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Posts: 556
South Central Kansas
I like what you are saying Kart29, the psalmist said as a deer panting for water, so my soul longs for You, we are searching and seeking to know God better, being humbled the entire way, by the vastness and grandness of His glory and grace.

Thats what I like so much about these discussions on Trapperman, these questions should push us into Gods word searching for answers and what a good place to be pushed! And as is often the case we may come away without the answer to our questions as clear cut as wed like, but still closer to God, which is right where I want to be.

Last edited by KsTrapper88; 03/29/22 01:12 PM.

Derek
Re: Temptation & Free Will [Re: HobbieTrapper] #7542831
03/29/22 01:01 PM
03/29/22 01:01 PM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 2,872
Southern Illinois
F
Foxpaw Offline
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Posts: 2,872
Southern Illinois
Free will does not mean free from God. The new moral libs pretend God don't exist. Free is another trigger word (as in free money in the mail box). Newton only reasoned what gravity is, he never created it.

Kids are free to chase a ball, just not into a busy street. The devil is on the street going to and fro seeking ?.

Temptations come in many ways, sometimes by the eye when we are not even looking for it, we still have time to cut it off before it enters into mind and heart and before it conceives into sin.

We don't have the luxury of Flip Wilson's "The Devil Made Me Do It".

Re: Temptation & Free Will [Re: HobbieTrapper] #7542858
03/29/22 01:44 PM
03/29/22 01:44 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 7,121
Marion Kansas
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Yes sir Offline
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Marion Kansas
Without free will I don't think Eve could of sinned

Re: Temptation & Free Will [Re: HobbieTrapper] #7542862
03/29/22 01:47 PM
03/29/22 01:47 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 15,304
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hippie Offline
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Originally Posted by HobbieTrapper
Can we have free will without temptation?


Temptation is everywhere, freewill gives us the ability to act on it.

Re: Temptation & Free Will [Re: Posco] #7542872
03/29/22 01:56 PM
03/29/22 01:56 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 51,492
Minnesota
330-Trapper Offline
trapper
330-Trapper  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 51,492
Minnesota
Originally Posted by Posco
I remember well the morning I got saved thirty-some years ago. Sitting all by myself, 4:00 or 5:00 o'clock in the morning ready to give up all hope when God was finally merciful to me. I told God I'd never sin again, and I meant it. Bring on the uncircumcised Philistines! God knew I meant it, but He also knew better. I had a mountaintop experience for a while and I basked in it but I couldn't stay there. That was that blush of first love. It eventually becomes trench warfare with the world, the flesh and the Devil.

Any of you guys think being a Christian is for sissies looking for a crutch, I say join the battle and get back to me. You're in for the fight of your life. As believers we have free will and it's constantly tested.

Amen to that


NRA and NTA Life Member
www.BackroadsRevised@etsy.com




Re: Temptation & Free Will [Re: HobbieTrapper] #7542907
03/29/22 02:32 PM
03/29/22 02:32 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 12,346
MN, Land of 10,000 Lakes
T
Trapper7 Offline
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T

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 12,346
MN, Land of 10,000 Lakes
In Romans Chapter 7, verses 14-25, Paul is saying it's not normal for the flesh to do good, we have to force it. A good example of free will versus temptation, IMO.


For Short Girls Only: God only lets things grow until they're perfect. Some don't take as long as others.
Re: Temptation & Free Will [Re: HobbieTrapper] #7542917
03/29/22 02:44 PM
03/29/22 02:44 PM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 7,685
Texas - Michigan
Mark June Offline
trapper
Mark June  Offline
trapper

Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 7,685
Texas - Michigan
Good conversation as believers should always have.
Faith seeking understanding as St. Augustine called it.

According to Scripture, God revealed the 1st truth of good and evil to Adam in the Garden, so Adam and Eve both knew good from evil, made their choices and the rest as God says, is history.

The LORD God commanded the man, saying, From any tree of the garden you may eat freely;
but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die
(Gen 2:1617).

The best part is that by Revelation, we now know all this.

Blessings,
Mark


Dallas Theological Seminary
https://www.dts.edu
https://www.markjuneslures.com/
Predator Trapping Academy Host



Re: Temptation & Free Will [Re: Mark June] #7542921
03/29/22 02:48 PM
03/29/22 02:48 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 23,611
Eastern Shore of Maryland
HobbieTrapper Offline OP
"Chippendale Trapper"
HobbieTrapper  Offline OP
"Chippendale Trapper"

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 23,611
Eastern Shore of Maryland
Originally Posted by Mark June
Good conversation as believers should always have.
Faith seeking understanding as St. Augustine called it.

According to Scripture, God revealed the 1st truth of good and evil to Adam in the Garden, so Adam and Eve both knew good from evil, made their choices and the rest as God says, is history.

The LORD God commanded the man, saying, From any tree of the garden you may eat freely;
but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die
(Gen 2:1617).

The best part is that by Revelation, we now know all this.

Blessings,
Mark


That sounds like the tree IS the knowledge of good and evil. How did they know good and evil before?


-Goofy-
Re: Temptation & Free Will [Re: HobbieTrapper] #7542922
03/29/22 02:50 PM
03/29/22 02:50 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 15,304
pa
H
hippie Offline
trapper
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There's alot of believers that avoid discussions because the hard core forgot how to converse with everyday people.

Posting paragraphs of scripture is great for reference, but plain talk is needed also.

Re: Temptation & Free Will [Re: HobbieTrapper] #7542933
03/29/22 02:59 PM
03/29/22 02:59 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 23,611
Eastern Shore of Maryland
HobbieTrapper Offline OP
"Chippendale Trapper"
HobbieTrapper  Offline OP
"Chippendale Trapper"

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 23,611
Eastern Shore of Maryland
If they knew good and evil before what was the real purpose of Eve being tempted?


-Goofy-
Re: Temptation & Free Will [Re: HobbieTrapper] #7542939
03/29/22 03:02 PM
03/29/22 03:02 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 15,304
pa
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hippie Offline
trapper
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pa
She was hungry? laugh

Re: Temptation & Free Will [Re: HobbieTrapper] #7542942
03/29/22 03:07 PM
03/29/22 03:07 PM
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 5,543
MB
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Jurassic Park Offline
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MB
Anyone know how long Eve was alive before Adam and Eve ate the fruit from the tree? It seems like she was made and the next day or atleast pretty quick they ate the fruit and that was it.
They didnt even have kids yet.

How long did Adam live before God took his rib and made Eve?


Cold as ice!
Re: Temptation & Free Will [Re: Jurassic Park] #7542943
03/29/22 03:10 PM
03/29/22 03:10 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 23,611
Eastern Shore of Maryland
HobbieTrapper Offline OP
"Chippendale Trapper"
HobbieTrapper  Offline OP
"Chippendale Trapper"

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Eastern Shore of Maryland
Originally Posted by Jurassic Park
Anyone know how long Eve was alive before Adam and Eve ate the fruit from the tree? It seems like she was made and the next day or atleast pretty quick they ate the fruit and that was it.
They didnt even have kids yet.

How long did Adam live before God took his rib and made Eve?



He was there long enough to name a lot of animals.


-Goofy-
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