Re: Temptation & Free Will
[Re: HobbieTrapper]
#7542768
03/29/22 11:36 AM
03/29/22 11:36 AM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,333 Hancock Co., Indiana
Kart29
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trapper
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Posts: 2,333
Hancock Co., Indiana
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So did Eve have free will before being tempted or did temptation bring the free will? I'm pretty sure Adam and Eve had a free will before being tempted. This is something I've been thinking and wondering about for years. I doubt I'll ever have the answer fully resolved in my mind. C.S. Lewis wrote that it is intrinsically impossible to create two sentient beings, one of which has a free will, without having the possibility of a conflict of wills. At some point, there is the possibility for being "A" to will something opposed to being "B". Of course, he explains it much better. So, when God created mankind with a free and independent will, the creative act necessarily brought with it the intrinsic possibility of eventual sin - a falling short of complete conformance to God's will. Thus, it was intrinsically impossible for God to create a world with free-willed creatures without the possiblity of pain and conflict. That all make sense to me. (When we say that God is omnipotent and can do all things, we mean that he can do all his holy will - not that he can do what is intrinsically impossible.) But eventually, when we are glorified with our Savior Christ Jesus, we expect God's redeemed people to be fully sanctified and free of our sin nature . If we are to be without sin in that glorified state (and we are told we will be), then I believe we will lose the free will we have now. I believe when we are in that glorified state, every thought will be brought into "captivity" to the obedience of Christ. In that condition we must no longer have the ability to desire and will in opposition to God's will. That might seem like a loss - a reduction of our status - to lose our freedom and ability to oppose God. But it's probably not. I long to live in a condition where all my being agrees with God and I do not, and cannot, oppose him in any way. I'd rather be a slave and captive of Christ than have my own freedom to exalt myself against him. I don't know. I think you've asked some VERY deep questions that are REALLY hard to answer. I hope you have better luck finding an answer than I have. Some people just shrug their shoulders and say, " oh well... we'll never be able to understand - we are just finite humans and can't understand the mind of God - so why even try?" But for me... when you really love someone, you desire to explore, examine, wonder about, and seek to know every detail of the beloved. If you stop trying to learn about, know and grow in understanding of someone, I wonder how much you really love them.
What from Christ that soul can sever, Bound by everlasting bands? None shall take thee From the Strength of Israel's hands.
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Re: Temptation & Free Will
[Re: HobbieTrapper]
#7542775
03/29/22 11:43 AM
03/29/22 11:43 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,880 williamsburg ks
danny clifton
"Grumpy Old Man"
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"Grumpy Old Man"
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,880
williamsburg ks
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Where do Adam and Eve fit into Neanderthal DNA? What about Denisovan? Were they the "others" that Cain had to go live with?
Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
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Re: Temptation & Free Will
[Re: HobbieTrapper]
#7542807
03/29/22 12:24 PM
03/29/22 12:24 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,497 PA
PAskinner
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trapper
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Can we have free will without temptation? Isn't the question backwards? Can we have temptation without having free will? I don't see how. If the will has no freedom, we are just automatons.
Right now I’m having amnesia and déjà vu at the same time. I think I’ve forgotten this before.
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Re: Temptation & Free Will
[Re: HobbieTrapper]
#7542809
03/29/22 12:28 PM
03/29/22 12:28 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,497 PA
PAskinner
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trapper
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Then no we would not need free will with no temptation but there will always be temptation. So did Eve have free will before being tempted or did temptation bring the free will? Well, Adam was allowed to do a lot of things like naming the animals that would seem to require free will, so I think they always had it, but this was perhaps the first time they had a choice that could lead them in a wrong direction.
Right now I’m having amnesia and déjà vu at the same time. I think I’ve forgotten this before.
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Re: Temptation & Free Will
[Re: HobbieTrapper]
#7542818
03/29/22 12:48 PM
03/29/22 12:48 PM
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Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 2,365 Interior Alaska
Oh Snap
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Then no we would not need free will with no temptation but there will always be temptation. So did Eve have free will before being tempted or did temptation bring the free will? I believe she had free will before because God told her not to eat the apple and bring free willed she did. Free will is the ability to make choices otherwise we would be robots!
Last edited by Oh Snap; 03/29/22 01:00 PM.
I love the smell of burning spruce---I love the sound of a spring time goose---I love the feel of 40 below---from my trapline I will never go!
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Re: Temptation & Free Will
[Re: HobbieTrapper]
#7542830
03/29/22 01:00 PM
03/29/22 01:00 PM
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 745 South Central Kansas
KsTrapper88
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trapper
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South Central Kansas
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I like what you are saying Kart29, the psalmist said “as a deer panting for water, so my soul longs for You,” we are searching and seeking to know God better, being humbled the entire way, by the vastness and grandness of His glory and grace.
That’s what I like so much about these discussions on Trapperman, these questions should push us into Gods word searching for answers and what a good place to be pushed! And as is often the case we may come away without the answer to our questions as clear cut as we’d like, but still closer to God, which is right where I want to be.
Last edited by KsTrapper88; 03/29/22 01:12 PM.
Derek
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Re: Temptation & Free Will
[Re: HobbieTrapper]
#7542862
03/29/22 01:47 PM
03/29/22 01:47 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 19,719 pa
hippie
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Can we have free will without temptation? Temptation is everywhere, freewill gives us the ability to act on it.
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Re: Temptation & Free Will
[Re: HobbieTrapper]
#7542907
03/29/22 02:32 PM
03/29/22 02:32 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,718 MN, Land of 10,000 Lakes
Trapper7
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In Romans Chapter 7, verses 14-25, Paul is saying it's not normal for the flesh to do good, we have to force it. A good example of free will versus temptation, IMO.
The difference between animals and humans is that animals would never let the dumbest ones lead the pack.
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Re: Temptation & Free Will
[Re: HobbieTrapper]
#7542917
03/29/22 02:44 PM
03/29/22 02:44 PM
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Mark June
Unregistered
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Mark June
Unregistered
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Good conversation as believers should always have. Faith seeking understanding as St. Augustine called it.
According to Scripture, God revealed the 1st truth of good and evil to Adam in the Garden, so Adam and Eve both knew good from evil, made their choices and the rest as God says, is history.
The LORD God commanded the man, saying, “From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die (Gen 2:16–17).
The best part is that by Revelation, we now know all this.
Blessings, Mark
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Re: Temptation & Free Will
[Re: ]
#7542921
03/29/22 02:48 PM
03/29/22 02:48 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 28,715 Eastern Shore of Maryland
HobbieTrapper
OP
"Chippendale Trapper"
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OP
"Chippendale Trapper"
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Posts: 28,715
Eastern Shore of Maryland
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Good conversation as believers should always have. Faith seeking understanding as St. Augustine called it.
According to Scripture, God revealed the 1st truth of good and evil to Adam in the Garden, so Adam and Eve both knew good from evil, made their choices and the rest as God says, is history.
The LORD God commanded the man, saying, “From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die (Gen 2:16–17).
The best part is that by Revelation, we now know all this.
Blessings, Mark That sounds like the tree IS the knowledge of good and evil. How did they know good and evil before?
-Goofy-
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Re: Temptation & Free Will
[Re: HobbieTrapper]
#7542942
03/29/22 03:07 PM
03/29/22 03:07 PM
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Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 6,584 MB
Jurassic Park
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trapper
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Anyone know how long Eve was alive before Adam and Eve ate the fruit from the tree? It seems like she was made and the next day or atleast pretty quick they ate the fruit and that was it. They didn’t even have kids yet.
How long did Adam live before God took his rib and made Eve?
Cold as ice!
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Re: Temptation & Free Will
[Re: Jurassic Park]
#7542943
03/29/22 03:10 PM
03/29/22 03:10 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 28,715 Eastern Shore of Maryland
HobbieTrapper
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"Chippendale Trapper"
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OP
"Chippendale Trapper"
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Posts: 28,715
Eastern Shore of Maryland
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Anyone know how long Eve was alive before Adam and Eve ate the fruit from the tree? It seems like she was made and the next day or atleast pretty quick they ate the fruit and that was it. They didn’t even have kids yet.
How long did Adam live before God took his rib and made Eve?
He was there long enough to name a lot of animals.
-Goofy-
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