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Shotshell Reloading #7545788
04/01/22 11:04 AM
04/01/22 11:04 AM
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 585
Oklahoma
We-Sa Offline OP
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We-Sa  Offline OP
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Oklahoma
I was looking at some load data yesterday and was wondering why the shot type matters.

I donít have a lot of experience loading shotshells and wondered why you couldnít substitute two different shot types (lead for tungsten, or bismuth for steelÖ) if everything else stayed the same? Does the shot type affect the height of the shot column which could have an impact on the crimp and shell length?

Re: Shotshell Reloading [Re: We-Sa] #7545801
04/01/22 11:22 AM
04/01/22 11:22 AM
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Indiana
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Providence Farm Offline
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It will effect weight and that effects pressure. I don't load shotshells and there is likely more to it.

Re: Shotshell Reloading [Re: We-Sa] #7545804
04/01/22 11:23 AM
04/01/22 11:23 AM
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coondagger2 Offline
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Yes, the more dense the shot is the less space it will take up to get to that same target weight.

For example, 1 oz of tss is a much shorter shot column than 1 oz of steel or 1 oz of lead.

Shot column has a very large effect on the pressure of shotshells. Generally as the shot column shortens the pressure decreases.

Density also comes into play when selecting shot sizes. For example, back in the day everybody shot ducks with lead #5 or #6. Steel shot came into play and everybody moved to #2 or #3. This is due to steel being a lower density material than lead.

In a roundabout way I'm saying stick to the published data and don't fudge the components. Each component has a larger impact on the pressure and velocity than you would think


Gotta live up to the nickname...
Re: Shotshell Reloading [Re: We-Sa] #7545811
04/01/22 11:30 AM
04/01/22 11:30 AM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,482
West Tennessee
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doublesettrigger Offline
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Do not fudge or get inventive in shotshell reloading. Even just substituting primers could immensely change the pressure to a dangerous level. You could lose your gun, hand, face or life. Use only published data when loading shotshells.

Rickey

Re: Shotshell Reloading [Re: We-Sa] #7545814
04/01/22 11:39 AM
04/01/22 11:39 AM
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Posts: 206
Minnesota
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Muskeg Offline
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I recently bought a MEC 600 and Iím in the process of educating myself on shotgun reloading. Iíve reloaded rifle for over 30 years and thought shotgun reloading was simple. Not really. A lot of variables to factor in. Not just stuff a shell with powder and shot and go boom.

Well maybe boom in a bad way

Last edited by Muskeg; 04/01/22 11:40 AM.
Re: Shotshell Reloading [Re: coondagger2] #7545830
04/01/22 12:04 PM
04/01/22 12:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 585
Oklahoma
We-Sa Offline OP
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We-Sa  Offline OP
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Oklahoma
Originally Posted by coondagger2
Yes, the more dense the shot is the less space it will take up to get to that same target weight.

For example, 1 oz of tss is a much shorter shot column than 1 oz of steel or 1 oz of lead.

Shot column has a very large effect on the pressure of shotshells. Generally as the shot column shortens the pressure decreases.

Density also comes into play when selecting shot sizes. For example, back in the day everybody shot ducks with lead #5 or #6. Steel shot came into play and everybody moved to #2 or #3. This is due to steel being a lower density material than lead.

In a roundabout way I'm saying stick to the published data and don't fudge the components. Each component has a larger impact on the pressure and velocity than you would think


Thanks coondagger2. Your explanation regarding pressure helps a lot.

Iím reasonably well versed in rifle and cartridge reloading and the variables that affect those pressures, case life, accuracy etcÖ but not so with shotshells.

With the amount of reputably published data available I have no need, let alone desire to deviate from it. Iím just trying to better understand it. Basically, even at my age, Iím that kid that always asks ďwhyĒ
confused

Re: Shotshell Reloading [Re: We-Sa] #7545855
04/01/22 12:38 PM
04/01/22 12:38 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,977
So. IL
pintail_drake04 Offline
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I started reloading shotshells when I was 5 years old. Lead shot is very forgiving, and one could work up a load for any shotgun/choke combo safely and with ease. Non-toxic shot is a different kettle of fish all together. I've been rolling my own steel, bismuth, heavy shot/heavy weight, tungsten, and TSS for nearly 2 decades now. Non-toxic shotshell wads are thicker than lead shot wads to help protect the barrels. The volume of 1 oz of lead shot vs steel shot is staggering. Shot columns can be built up for each wad/hull combo to get an adequate crimp.

Experienced shotshell reloaders will cross reference data from multiple sources. Pressures published can vary wildly too just by swapping out 1 component. With that said, there are some shotshell reloading component swaps that are readily accepted. I won't post them here, do your own research! When looking at reloading data, consider the source as well. For instance, Ballistic Products for years was know to under report pressures of their "tested" shells using Steel powder. This was from new lots of Steel powder being "hotter" than the older lots. This created a lot of over pressured, non-toxic shotshells, and a lot of backlash from reloaders.

When going from lead to steel shot, know one thing...steel shot sucks! It is light and slows down quickly. To compensate, reloaders often move up 2 shot sizes to attain comparable ballistics. So for example, 1oz of steel #4s has approximately 192 pellets vs 1oz of lead #4s has 135 pellets. That is a 42% increase in pellets going from lead to steel shot, sounds good right? Steel 4's barely have the energy to kill at 40 yards, whereas lead retains it energy well past 50 yds. However, here is the trade off, moving up to #2 steel will gain you the ballistics needed to equal that of lead #4's, but you are losing pellet density (1 oz of steel 2's is approximately 124 pellets). Change in pellet count may mean the need for building up a shot column (or finding appropriate wad) for a proper crimp.

Re: Shotshell Reloading [Re: We-Sa] #7545883
04/01/22 01:18 PM
04/01/22 01:18 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,703
Peoria County Illinois
Larry Baer Offline
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And to top off what pintail said - your choke can have a large affect on the type of shot you are shooting also.

Most of the time you can use an empty hull - like an AA hull- and use it for different types of shot - you just have to find a recipe for that type of shot.. The lighter shot like steel takes up more room in the hull for the same weight payload as lead so you have to use a wad for steel shot and the right powder for that that or sometimes use old style fiber wads and cards. But You really need to do your own research like Pintail says. Shotshell loading is fascinating. I started in the 80's. It has been a life long pursuit of mine and has given me much success over the years. It's a lot of fun. When you get a good load your shotgun likes it makes it all worth while.

Roll crimps might be worth it if you have different shot column sizes.


Just passin through
Re: Shotshell Reloading [Re: We-Sa] #7545892
04/01/22 01:30 PM
04/01/22 01:30 PM
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Posts: 1,265
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coondagger2 Offline
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Great explanation Pintail. I agree that steel shot sucks, LOL

We-Sa, I also have a tendency to ask "why." So much so that I wanted to reinvent the wheel when it came to shotshell reloading. I have a guy in Florida who does ballistics testing for all shotshell gauges and I've sent him 3-4 loads a week for the last few years now.

I'm always tinkering with some new load, and I've developed a library of good loads from all of the testing. Nearly all of these involving tss.

The issue pintail explains with the pellet count being low with steel shot is the problem I set out to address with my testing. Add in a little tss to those steel shot loads and you have the perfect storm of pellet count and performance


Gotta live up to the nickname...
Re: Shotshell Reloading [Re: We-Sa] #7545954
04/01/22 02:51 PM
04/01/22 02:51 PM
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 585
Oklahoma
We-Sa Offline OP
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We-Sa  Offline OP
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Oklahoma
Thanks fellas, lots of good info and plenty for me to digest.

Aside from density and number of pellets per ounce I had no idea that non-toxic shot was that different than lead. My limited experience comes from loading 12 ga lead BB shotshells because I couldnít find any in stock. So I bought a Lee Load-All, found a load from Hodgdon and got the components from Ballistic Products. Iíve also used BPís roll crimp tool on those same loads.

I am really interested in the new tungsten loads, not only for 12 ga but eapecially for 28 ga. I think a 28 ga would be a super nice pheasant and maybe even turkey gun for the wife or one of the grand kids (probably even me).

Re: Shotshell Reloading [Re: We-Sa] #7545961
04/01/22 03:14 PM
04/01/22 03:14 PM
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Posts: 1,265
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coondagger2 Offline
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The 28ga is a phenomenal choice for all game with modern shotshells. I use my 28ga to harvest everything from ducks and geese to turkeys and rabbits. Also have killed a good bit of sandhill cranes with it.

The 28ga is the perfect platform for the steel/tss duplex waterfowl load


Gotta live up to the nickname...
Re: Shotshell Reloading [Re: coondagger2] #7546162
04/01/22 07:56 PM
04/01/22 07:56 PM
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 585
Oklahoma
We-Sa Offline OP
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We-Sa  Offline OP
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Oklahoma
Originally Posted by coondagger2
The 28ga is a phenomenal choice for all game with modern shotshells. I use my 28ga to harvest everything from ducks and geese to turkeys and rabbits. Also have killed a good bit of sandhill cranes with it.

The 28ga is the perfect platform for the steel/tss duplex waterfowl load


That's exactly what I'm looking for. I found that or a similar load on BP's Load of the Week Archive, 9/10/21. I have or can get all of the components except the Lil' Gun. Is there a book that shows the duplex and/or straight TSS shot loads with Longshot, Clays or Unique?

Re: Shotshell Reloading [Re: We-Sa] #7548277
04/04/22 07:53 AM
04/04/22 07:53 AM
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coondagger2 Offline
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Originally Posted by We-Sa
Originally Posted by coondagger2
The 28ga is a phenomenal choice for all game with modern shotshells. I use my 28ga to harvest everything from ducks and geese to turkeys and rabbits. Also have killed a good bit of sandhill cranes with it.

The 28ga is the perfect platform for the steel/tss duplex waterfowl load


That's exactly what I'm looking for. I found that or a similar load on BP's Load of the Week Archive, 9/10/21. I have or can get all of the components except the Lil' Gun. Is there a book that shows the duplex and/or straight TSS shot loads with Longshot, Clays or Unique?

I've developed a few loads that are straight tss in 28ga with longshot. But it is too hot for the steel duplexes. If you plan to load steel duplexes in 28ga and 20ga, find some lil gun. Midway gets it fairly frequently


Gotta live up to the nickname...
Re: Shotshell Reloading [Re: coondagger2] #7548341
04/04/22 09:04 AM
04/04/22 09:04 AM
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 585
Oklahoma
We-Sa Offline OP
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We-Sa  Offline OP
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Oklahoma
Originally Posted by coondagger2

I've developed a few loads that are straight tss in 28ga with longshot. But it is too hot for the steel duplexes. If you plan to load steel duplexes in 28ga and 20ga, find some lil gun. Midway gets it fairly frequently



Thanks again coondagger2, I see that a lot of 28 ga loads use lil gun. I'll have to find some.

Re: Shotshell Reloading [Re: We-Sa] #7548403
04/04/22 10:19 AM
04/04/22 10:19 AM
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coondagger2 Offline
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Precision reloading has lil gun in stock now. They are a reputable company

https://www.precisionreloading.com/cart.php#!s=in&l=PDH&i=LIL1


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