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Bobcats killing Fisher in WI and MN #6518196
04/14/19 04:27 PM
04/14/19 04:27 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 625
Northern WI
L
Line Jumper Offline OP
trapper
Line Jumper  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 625
Northern WI
I thought I would start a new thread on this instead of using the Conservation Congress Thread, this something that I and others in the area have thought has been going on for years. It's the best explanation for our loss of fishers.

Thanks to 49er for the articles from MN, here's a quote from one article;

Of the 26 predated fishers, 21 were females (Table 2). Of the 21 females predated, only 1 was attributed to an avian predator [Great-horned owl (Bubo virginianus) suspected]. Conversely, 4 of the 5 male fisher predation deaths were attributed to raptors (all bald eagles; Haliaeetus leucocephalus), though we canít rule out scavenging in 1 case where only the radiocollar was retrieved directly underneath an active eagle nest. We are awaiting forensic DNA analysis on many fishers killed by mammalian predators. However, similar to martens, field evidence and forensic DNA analysis completed so far suggests bobcats as the most common predator, with canids (wolf or coyote) suspected in at least 2 fisher deaths. Of particular note, 20 of the 21 female fishers killed by other predators were adults (≥2 years old), and 15 of those 20 were nursing females whose deaths resulted in complete litter loss. The deaths of these kit-rearing females and their litters represented 29% of the parous females and litters monitored during spring and early summer since the study began.


And the other article link is: https://www.dnr.state.mn.us/mcvmagazine/issues/2014/jan-feb/bobcats.html

What's your thoughts Wisconsinites?

Re: Bobcats killing Fisher in WI and MN [Re: Line Jumper] #6518209
04/14/19 04:51 PM
04/14/19 04:51 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 92
nw wi
I
iron rob Offline
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iron rob  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 92
nw wi
Iíve wondered this for a few years. We use to have a lot of fishers and not many bobcats. Now bobcats are more common and there are less fisher.

Re: Bobcats killing Fisher in WI and MN [Re: Line Jumper] #6518213
04/14/19 04:59 PM
04/14/19 04:59 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,808
WI
H
handitrapper Offline
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handitrapper  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,808
WI
Iím sure that the cats will and do kill fisher. Iím just not 100% sold on the theory that itís in any significant numbers. Our state has had a good cat population for a number of years. We just had the wrong biologist in charge. Hopefully Shawn will be at this?

Re: Bobcats killing Fisher in WI and MN [Re: Line Jumper] #6518305
04/14/19 06:41 PM
04/14/19 06:41 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 625
Northern WI
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Line Jumper Offline OP
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Line Jumper  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 625
Northern WI
My post was miss-leading, I thought it was competition for prey with bobcats, not the outright killing, before these studies. The most disturbing is the preying on female fishers with young, taking out a litter and all future litters from the lost female.

Re: Bobcats killing Fisher in WI and MN [Re: handitrapper] #7553778
04/10/22 12:11 AM
04/10/22 12:11 AM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 8,537
WI - Wisconsin
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AJE Offline
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AJE  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 8,537
WI - Wisconsin
Originally Posted by handitrapper
Iím sure that the cats will and do kill fisher. Iím just not 100% sold on the theory that itís in any significant numbers. Our state has had a good cat population for a number of years. We just had the wrong biologist in charge. Hopefully Shawn will be at this?

I wonder how the Wi bobcat study is going. Remember all those bobcats WDNR collared a couple years ago?

Re: Bobcats killing Fisher in WI and MN [Re: Line Jumper] #7553804
04/10/22 05:10 AM
04/10/22 05:10 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,547
Williamsport, Pa.
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jk Offline
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Williamsport, Pa.
Nothing scientific but it appears to me that it is the opposite here in Pa. We had a lot of cats 15 years ago and still do but their population is down a lot. But the fisher population is huge, We never saw one until 15 years ago and now see two or three every year. We are allowed ( with paid permit0 one a yea of each cat and fisher. I have released many cats over the years and recently have started to release fishers probably less than a dozen, but that is just in the last 10 years. I had a hollow that was called bobcat hollow and now only fishers are there. Just MY personal observation but looks to me that fishers are displacing bobcats in my little world........jk Ps dont even mention otters = PIA


Free people are not equal. Equal people are not free. Whats supposed to be ain't always is.
Re: Bobcats killing Fisher in WI and MN [Re: Line Jumper] #7553810
04/10/22 05:29 AM
04/10/22 05:29 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 274
monadnock region New Hampshire
nh toe pincher Offline
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nh toe pincher  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 274
monadnock region New Hampshire
i hope New Hampshire fish and game is paying attention to this.
bobcat numbers here are way too high, protected since 1974. tho, for 20 bucks apiece, i aint fightin a wildcat over one.

Re: Bobcats killing Fisher in WI and MN [Re: Line Jumper] #7553835
04/10/22 06:30 AM
04/10/22 06:30 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 41,525
Northern Maine
Bruce T Offline
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Bruce T  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 41,525
Northern Maine
And here in Maine it's documented that male fisher are killing lynx.


Nevada bound
Re: Bobcats killing Fisher in WI and MN [Re: jk] #7553860
04/10/22 07:07 AM
04/10/22 07:07 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 53,522
Minnesota
330-Trapper Offline
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330-Trapper  Offline
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Posts: 53,522
Minnesota
Originally Posted by jk
Nothing scientific but it appears to me that it is the opposite here in Pa. We had a lot of cats 15 years ago and still do but their population is down a lot. But the fisher population is huge, We never saw one until 15 years ago and now see two or three every year. We are allowed ( with paid permit0 one a yea of each cat and fisher. I have released many cats over the years and recently have started to release fishers probably less than a dozen, but that is just in the last 10 years. I had a hollow that was called bobcat hollow and now only fishers are there. Just MY personal observation but looks to me that fishers are displacing bobcats in my little world........jk Ps dont even mention otters = PIA

Interesting


NRA and NTA Life Member
www.BackroadsRevised@etsy.com




Re: Bobcats killing Fisher in WI and MN [Re: Line Jumper] #7553878
04/10/22 07:23 AM
04/10/22 07:23 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,470
PA
M
marathonman Offline
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marathonman  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,470
PA
fisher kill everything including fawns

Re: Bobcats killing Fisher in WI and MN [Re: Line Jumper] #7553979
04/10/22 08:40 AM
04/10/22 08:40 AM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,451
Adirondacks, NY
Fisher Man Offline
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Fisher Man  Offline
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Adirondacks, NY
Here in New York I find there seems to be wide swings between species, large fisher population vs.low cat population or just the opposite. I have no proof, but I have always thought that fisher pray on bobcat kittens.Unfortunately we too have a biologist that allowed the Adirondack fisher population to decline. Fisher get a bad rap from some people that spread false information.

Re: Bobcats killing Fisher in WI and MN [Re: Line Jumper] #7554007
04/10/22 09:04 AM
04/10/22 09:04 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 53,522
Minnesota
330-Trapper Offline
trapper
330-Trapper  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 53,522
Minnesota
I Love Fisher!


NRA and NTA Life Member
www.BackroadsRevised@etsy.com




Re: Bobcats killing Fisher in WI and MN [Re: Line Jumper] #7554041
04/10/22 09:48 AM
04/10/22 09:48 AM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,763
Frazee, MN
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backroadsarcher Offline
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Frazee, MN
I like the fisher also. I think they are just a small version of a wolverine. I think they are a hunting machine. I didn't read the article but is it possible the male fisher is killing female fisher and young at certain times of the year? Just a question of thought.

Re: Bobcats killing Fisher in WI and MN [Re: Line Jumper] #7554206
04/10/22 12:49 PM
04/10/22 12:49 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,547
Williamsport, Pa.
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jk Offline
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Williamsport, Pa.
I would not doubt that, it seems every species except the pack animals that the big make kills the young.......jk


Free people are not equal. Equal people are not free. Whats supposed to be ain't always is.
Re: Bobcats killing Fisher in WI and MN [Re: Line Jumper] #7554290
04/10/22 03:22 PM
04/10/22 03:22 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 38,394
james bay frontierOnt.
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Boco Online content
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Boco  Online Content
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Posts: 38,394
james bay frontierOnt.
Lots of lynx here-not many fisher.
When the lynx population is high there are noticeably less fisher,and vice versa.
Snowshoe hares are important prey species for fisher in winter,because unlike marten their ability to hunt subnivean is limited because of their size.They cannot compete with lynx in winter for the rabbits.
Lynx are perfectly mobile in deep snow.Fisher struggle in deep snow.
Must be different dynamics at play between bobcats and fishers since both are adapted equally to snow conditions.Neither having an advantage over the other in winter. due to snowcover.
Just because one animal is high when another species is low and vice versa doesnt necessarily mean that one species directly kills the other.

Last edited by Boco; 04/10/22 03:29 PM.

Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: Bobcats killing Fisher in WI and MN [Re: Line Jumper] #7554291
04/10/22 03:33 PM
04/10/22 03:33 PM
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 1,308
Saskatchewan
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rvsask Offline
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Joined: May 2019
Posts: 1,308
Saskatchewan
I too am a big fan of fisher and have often pondered their role in the ecosystem and their effect on other animals and vice versa. [Linked Image]

Re: Bobcats killing Fisher in WI and MN [Re: Boco] #7554310
04/10/22 04:19 PM
04/10/22 04:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 6,374
Virginia
5
52Carl Offline
trapper
52Carl  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 6,374
Virginia
Originally Posted by Boco
Lots of lynx here-not many fisher.
When the lynx population is high there are noticeably less fisher,and vice versa.
Snowshoe hares are important prey species for fisher in winter,because unlike marten their ability to hunt subnivean is limited because of their size.They cannot compete with lynx in winter for the rabbits.
Lynx are perfectly mobile in deep snow.Fisher struggle in deep snow.
Must be different dynamics at play between bobcats and fishers since both are adapted equally to snow conditions.Neither having an advantage over the other in winter. due to snowcover.
Just because one animal is high when another species is low and vice versa doesnt necessarily mean that one species directly kills the other.

Bingo. Correlation does not equal causation, (except when debating Global Climate Warming Change).

Re: Bobcats killing Fisher in WI and MN [Re: Line Jumper] #7554317
04/10/22 04:24 PM
04/10/22 04:24 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 41,525
Northern Maine
Bruce T Offline
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Bruce T  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 41,525
Northern Maine
Fisher are more adaptable at catching red squirrels and marten in the trees where Lynx are more adaptable in catching snowshoe hare in the deep snow.


Nevada bound
Re: Bobcats killing Fisher in WI and MN [Re: Line Jumper] #7554370
04/10/22 05:07 PM
04/10/22 05:07 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 196
pa
P
poconobear Offline
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poconobear  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 196
pa
In my area of PA, we are loaded with bobcats. Many trail cam pics and a few sightings every year. I saw a fisher cross the road the last week of February. He was the first one Iíve seen in 8 years. Iím lucky to get a trail cam pic or two in a year. We have a fisher season there too

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