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Re: 10 Reasons to Assume we are Not Alone [Re: ] #7565020
04/20/22 11:53 PM
04/20/22 11:53 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,923
Lufkin, Tx.
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Lufkin Trapper Offline
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Lufkin Trapper  Offline
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Posts: 1,923
Lufkin, Tx.
I'm certainly not as smart as Mr. June, but I will never put limitations on MY God. He can do all things.


Billy
Member # 16.
Re: 10 Reasons to Assume we are Not Alone [Re: Finster] #7565021
04/20/22 11:54 PM
04/20/22 11:54 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,607
SW Pa
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wr otis Offline
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SW Pa
I don't know how much if any James webb telescope imagery is one YouTube. But there is quite a bit of hubble material. The massive numbers of galaxies, which contain massive numbers of solar systems makes it highly unlikely other life doesn't exist elsewhere.

What people generally don't seem to grasp about the development of life on earth, is the time scale. What seems unlikely over the span of a thousand years, might be completely likely in the time frame of a million years.

Re: 10 Reasons to Assume we are Not Alone [Re: wr otis] #7565112
04/21/22 06:00 AM
04/21/22 06:00 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,586
Northern Minnesota
BernieB. Offline
trapper
BernieB.  Offline
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Posts: 4,586
Northern Minnesota
Originally Posted by wr otis
I don't know how much if any James webb telescope imagery is one YouTube. But there is quite a bit of hubble material. The massive numbers of galaxies, which contain massive numbers of solar systems makes it highly unlikely other life doesn't exist elsewhere.

What people generally don't seem to grasp about the development of life on earth, is the time scale. What seems unlikely over the span of a thousand years, might be completely likely in the time frame of a million years.


And if it doesn't make sense in a million years, just add a few more million. And then add a billion. And on and on and on. Here's a news flash. It doesn't make sense at all no matter how many years you add.

Life cannot come from non-life no matter how many billions of years you add to it. Or no matter how many galaxies there are. It's the most implausible ridiculous hoax ever perpetrated on the human race.

Re: 10 Reasons to Assume we are Not Alone [Re: Lufkin Trapper] #7565127
04/21/22 06:19 AM
04/21/22 06:19 AM

M
Mark June
Unregistered
Mark June
Unregistered
M



Originally Posted by Lufkin Trapper
I'm certainly not as smart as Mr. June, but I will never put limitations on MY God. He can do all things.


Well I have nothing worthy to say on this but God has spoken. Loudly and often and throughout the history of Scripture.
And as usually, people then interpret what they would do if they were God.
If they were God, and they made all these galaxies, they'd have more peoples.
But God has not told us this. People have. And they (the people) can't hold their breath for 5 minutes without saying goodbye let alone make the O2 that keeps them here, let alone make a galaxy.

Scripture speaks to this so readers of the God's Word - GOD'S WORD - can be assured that God's focus is on the Creation He spoke into Existence with that Word alone.
Here's a few texts about what God tells us He thinks about what the "diviners" say and what God thinks about those who speak in place of Him.

1 Samuel 15:23
ďFor rebellion is as the sin of divination,
And insubordination is as iniquity and idolatry.
Because you have rejected the word of the LORD,
He has also rejected you from being king.Ē

2 Kings 17:17
Then they made their sons and their daughters pass through the fire, and practiced divination and enchantments, and sold themselves to do evil in the sight of the LORD, provoking Him.

Jeremiah 14:14
Then the LORD said to me, ďThe prophets are prophesying falsehood in My name. I have neither sent them nor commanded them nor spoken to them; they are prophesying to you a false vision, divination, futility and the deception of their own minds.

Ezekiel 12:24
For there will no longer be any false vision or flattering divination within the house of Israel.

Ezekiel 13:6
They see falsehood and lying divination who are saying, ĎThe LORD declares,í when the LORD has not sent them; yet they hope for the fulfillment of their word.

Is God capable of anything. Beyond a for sure, yes, can I get an Amen.
He's omnipotent meaning he is all powerful.
But to say there IS life "out there" is a human construct which at its core diminishes what God called good from the beginning.
I'm not walking that road. Enough of it going on already.

There is a dirty little secret, a lie rooted in all this, and it's this....
sssssh.
Come closer.
Hey, there's a snake by the door threshold. Well I'll be.....
"Psst, Did God really say earth is all there is? Humans made in His image is all there is? What do you think? God's holding out on you pal."

WHACK. CHOP.
Dead snake!!!!!

Blessings,
Mark

Re: 10 Reasons to Assume we are Not Alone [Re: ] #7565218
04/21/22 07:53 AM
04/21/22 07:53 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,620
central PA
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white marlin Offline
trapper
white marlin  Offline
trapper
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,620
central PA
Originally Posted by Mark June
Originally Posted by upstateNY
Cant we believe in the Lord and Christ,,and still wonder if they created life elsewhere? I do.


We just keep it inside the rails of God's Revelation called Scripture. Wonder is what we all do, but ontological arguments which would claim that God created other beings discredits what God's Word describes in His Holy Scripture, which is critical to our faith. We can't rewrite it, but we can sure wonder! The Heavens proclaim God's Glory.

Blessings,
Mark


Mark, does The Bible explicitly say that God did NOT create other worlds and beings? Perhaps creating strange (to us) beings that are NOT in His image? [have you ever seen a platypus?]

I guess I'm thinking that just because it isn't MENTIONED in The Bible, doesn't exclude the possibility that He did just that. Maybe it's none of our business...

Last edited by white marlin; 04/21/22 08:38 AM.
Re: 10 Reasons to Assume we are Not Alone [Re: Finster] #7565233
04/21/22 08:03 AM
04/21/22 08:03 AM

M
Mark June
Unregistered
Mark June
Unregistered
M



Heck, we couldn't know, right? God could do whatever He wants but MUCH theological reflection and writings have gone into this subject, because humans have gazed at the stars, which tell of God's Glory since.... well, since there were stars and there were people.

I don't have a position, even as a scientist, on if or if there isn't, or if or if there couldn't be.
Here's the nutshell of the theologians writings (tough to paraphrase thousands of years) which is God revealed three things so that we would know Him.

The Heavens and Creation
Jesus Christ
Scripture

And in all that, and I love me some Star Trek!!!!!!, if we dismiss what God has revealed and cast our gaze on what we conjure in our minds..... creativity is fine and is created in us and for us.... but, we're trying to be cautious of dismissing God and going with what we "know."
It's usually where all this heads.

Can God create whatever, wherever?
Sure we would say.
Did He?
All of us make our own decisions. Thank God for our ability to think it all through.
I'll stick pretty tight to the Text we do have. We're not really doing all we can with that part yet, before we go exploring the galaxies.

Blessings,
Mark

Re: 10 Reasons to Assume we are Not Alone [Re: BernieB.] #7565268
04/21/22 08:35 AM
04/21/22 08:35 AM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 10,061
Maine, Aroostook
Posco Offline
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Posco  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 10,061
Maine, Aroostook
Originally Posted by BernieB.
It's the most implausible ridiculous hoax ever perpetrated on the human race.


And they hold to it because they don't want to face the alternative.

Re: 10 Reasons to Assume we are Not Alone [Re: BernieB.] #7565291
04/21/22 09:01 AM
04/21/22 09:01 AM
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 1,354
Saskatchewan
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rvsask Offline
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Joined: May 2019
Posts: 1,354
Saskatchewan
[/quote]

And if it doesn't make sense in a million years, just add a few more million. And then add a billion. And on and on and on. Here's a news flash. It doesn't make sense at all no matter how many years you add.

Life cannot come from non-life no matter how many billions of years you add to it. Or no matter how many galaxies there are. It's the most implausible ridiculous hoax ever perpetrated on the human race. [/quote]

I am not sure itís much more ridiculous than an entire earth populated from two separate incestuous families, one of which had a 950 year old dad who rounded up all the animals on earth for his boat ride. Lol

Last edited by rvsask; 04/21/22 09:01 AM.
Re: 10 Reasons to Assume we are Not Alone [Re: Finster] #7565316
04/21/22 09:33 AM
04/21/22 09:33 AM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 3,446
Southern Illinois
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Foxpaw Offline
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Foxpaw  Offline
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 3,446
Southern Illinois
I think when we become overly obsessed with space its a sign we would rather be someplace else. When I see the mess on the news, I'll admit I dream more about a better place and cling more dearly to my way of escape to a heavenly place, even if its here on a New Earth.

I know that day will finally come and then I :

Ain't gonna need this house no longer
Ain't gonna need this house no more
Ain't got time to fix the shingles
Ain't got time to fix the floor

Re: 10 Reasons to Assume we are Not Alone [Re: Scuba1] #7565330
04/21/22 09:54 AM
04/21/22 09:54 AM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,144
Ohio
BuckMink Offline
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BuckMink  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,144
Ohio
Originally Posted by Scuba1
Originally Posted by Finster

Bible says God created the heavens and earth. It doesn't say he didn't create other planets that are similar. I would think that God created many.


Considering he fabricobbled the whole lot together in the dark, who knows what else was put together. He clearly was no engineer, as an engineer would have come up with the light thing first so ya can see what one is doing.


ďThis is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.Ē - 1 John 1:5 ESV Do we have the sun and the moon, yes but we dont need these in his presence because he IS the light.

ďGod is a God of OrderĒ comes from 1 Corinthians 14:33. It says, "For God is not a God of disorder but of peace, as in all the meetings of Godís holy people." The Greek word for peace adds the ideas of oneness and quietness. Living in an orderly way helps us to be in line with God. 1 Corinthians 14:33 is backed up by Godís entire creation. Everything He made is orderly and consistent, as well as complex and detailed.

Knowledge came from God, God isn't fallible. Everything God has made it still stands. Everything we know, and whatever engineers have learned all of that knowledge has came from God as he parts his gifts to man as he sees fit. As mentioned, Man is fallible, God isnt. Look at human history's blunders... God has yet to have one.

Last edited by BuckMink; 04/21/22 10:01 AM.
Re: 10 Reasons to Assume we are Not Alone [Re: Finster] #7565342
04/21/22 10:15 AM
04/21/22 10:15 AM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 2,697
E central Il
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Golf ball Offline
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E central Il
Iím gonna stir the pot a little here but Iím also looking for answers. Who wrote the Bible? What version and when ? I donít ever remember reading any version written by the Lords hand . Most was written by someone told to them by someone else long long after an event happened. Even the events written about Jesus were written more than a hundred years after his death . Now before you write me off as an atheist ( Iím not ) , think about what Iím saying. Has anyone ever seen the experiment where one person tells another person a joke and that joke is told to the next person and the next and so on and the last person tells the joke out loud to the rest of the group. I have been a part of one such experience while in high school , the joke was barely recognizable by the time it was told for the 12 th time.
I guess what Iím saying is we can only guess what has been omitted, embellished or misinterpreted. In my mind if you think me to be full of beans and you only believe what is written in one version of the Bible, well you kind of proved my point . Which is who knows what happened, we were not there !

Re: 10 Reasons to Assume we are Not Alone [Re: Golf ball] #7565350
04/21/22 10:26 AM
04/21/22 10:26 AM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 3,446
Southern Illinois
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Foxpaw Offline
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Foxpaw  Offline
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 3,446
Southern Illinois
Originally Posted by Golf ball
Iím gonna stir the pot a little here but Iím also looking for answers. Who wrote the Bible? What version and when ? I donít ever remember reading any version written by the Lords hand . Most was written by someone told to them by someone else long long after an event happened. Even the events written about Jesus were written more than a hundred years after his death . Now before you write me off as an atheist ( Iím not ) , think about what Iím saying. Has anyone ever seen the experiment where one person tells another person a joke and that joke is told to the next person and the next and so on and the last person tells the joke out loud to the rest of the group. I have been a part of one such experience while in high school , the joke was barely recognizable by the time it was told for the 12 th time.
I guess what Iím saying is we can only guess what has been omitted, embellished or misinterpreted. In my mind if you think me to be full of beans and you only believe what is written in one version of the Bible, well you kind of proved my point . Which is who knows what happened, we were not there !



You have a point Golf ball. Some societies lose or dilute the story because they don't have the written word or a diluted written word.. The American Natives didn't have the written word but handed down stories of a Noah in a flood in a canoe.
And there is also the story of Gilgamesh with its version.

Re: 10 Reasons to Assume we are Not Alone [Re: Finster] #7565352
04/21/22 10:28 AM
04/21/22 10:28 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,154
Tug Hill, NY
Redknot Offline
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Tug Hill, NY
It will be interesting when we find out what those others out there say about "its" belief in the origins of life...


~Illegitimi Non Carborundum~
Re: 10 Reasons to Assume we are Not Alone [Re: Finster] #7565358
04/21/22 10:32 AM
04/21/22 10:32 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 178
mt
I
insanelupus Offline
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mt
Quote
I agree. Iím not nearly arrogant enough to believe weíre so important that this was created for us. Our planet is like a grain of sand on all of earthís beaches in comparison to the enormity of space.


I may, perhaps, be considered arrogant then.

I believe we were special when we were created. That we were created in His image and so special He created this world, this galaxy, this universe, and all others because He did love us and placed us here. And all those things we see far away and beyond are a testimony to our Creator and created for that purpose. God loved us enough to give us something so amazing and beautiful and to remind us of Him wherever we are to look.


"My feeling is this, give him plenty of time, plenty of birds, and a little direction, and he'll hunt his heart out for me. That's all I ask."
Re: 10 Reasons to Assume we are Not Alone [Re: Foxpaw] #7565386
04/21/22 11:11 AM
04/21/22 11:11 AM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 10,061
Maine, Aroostook
Posco Offline
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Posco  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2017
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Maine, Aroostook
Originally Posted by Foxpaw
Originally Posted by Golf ball
Iím gonna stir the pot a little here but Iím also looking for answers. Who wrote the Bible? What version and when ? I donít ever remember reading any version written by the Lords hand . Most was written by someone told to them by someone else long long after an event happened. Even the events written about Jesus were written more than a hundred years after his death . Now before you write me off as an atheist ( Iím not ) , think about what Iím saying. Has anyone ever seen the experiment where one person tells another person a joke and that joke is told to the next person and the next and so on and the last person tells the joke out loud to the rest of the group. I have been a part of one such experience while in high school , the joke was barely recognizable by the time it was told for the 12 th time.
I guess what Iím saying is we can only guess what has been omitted, embellished or misinterpreted. In my mind if you think me to be full of beans and you only believe what is written in one version of the Bible, well you kind of proved my point . Which is who knows what happened, we were not there !



You have a point Golf ball. Some societies lose or dilute the story because they don't have the written word or a diluted written word.. The American Natives didn't have the written word but handed down stories of a Noah in a flood in a canoe.
And there is also the story of Gilgamesh with its version.

Lots of books have been written on the subject. The Bible comes down to us through manuscript evidence, thousands upon thousands of pieces of manuscript evidence. It's not about Bible versions, it's about manuscript evidence upon which the Bible is based. It's the consistency of the manuscript evidence still in existence today that gives us confidence in what we call the Bible.

Re: 10 Reasons to Assume we are Not Alone [Re: Finster] #7565395
04/21/22 11:18 AM
04/21/22 11:18 AM
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Posts: 4,243
MN
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Donnersurvivor Offline
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MN
I don't understand why Christians tend to dislike the theory there could be alien life out there. If we search and find nothing it points to a rare case, a special case and is evidence of a creator. If we search and find intelligent life it would be created by God and have the same creation stories, religious texts etc. Seems win win for exploring the universe from the Christian perspective.

Re: 10 Reasons to Assume we are Not Alone [Re: ] #7565400
04/21/22 11:22 AM
04/21/22 11:22 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,923
Lufkin, Tx.
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Lufkin Trapper Offline
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Lufkin Trapper  Offline
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Posts: 1,923
Lufkin, Tx.
Originally Posted by Mark June
Originally Posted by Lufkin Trapper
I'm certainly not as smart as Mr. June, but I will never put limitations on MY God. He can do all things.


Well I have nothing worthy to say on this but God has spoken. Loudly and often and throughout the history of Scripture.
And as usually, people then interpret what they would do if they were God.
If they were God, and they made all these galaxies, they'd have more peoples.
But God has not told us this. People have. And they (the people) can't hold their breath for 5 minutes without saying goodbye let alone make the O2 that keeps them here, let alone make a galaxy.

Scripture speaks to this so readers of the God's Word - GOD'S WORD - can be assured that God's focus is on the Creation He spoke into Existence with that Word alone.
Here's a few texts about what God tells us He thinks about what the "diviners" say and what God thinks about those who speak in place of Him.

1 Samuel 15:23
ďFor rebellion is as the sin of divination,
And insubordination is as iniquity and idolatry.
Because you have rejected the word of the LORD,
He has also rejected you from being king.Ē

2 Kings 17:17
Then they made their sons and their daughters pass through the fire, and practiced divination and enchantments, and sold themselves to do evil in the sight of the LORD, provoking Him.

Jeremiah 14:14
Then the LORD said to me, ďThe prophets are prophesying falsehood in My name. I have neither sent them nor commanded them nor spoken to them; they are prophesying to you a false vision, divination, futility and the deception of their own minds.

Ezekiel 12:24
For there will no longer be any false vision or flattering divination within the house of Israel.

Ezekiel 13:6
They see falsehood and lying divination who are saying, ĎThe LORD declares,í when the LORD has not sent them; yet they hope for the fulfillment of their word.

Is God capable of anything. Beyond a for sure, yes, can I get an Amen.
He's omnipotent meaning he is all powerful.
But to say there IS life "out there" is a human construct which at its core diminishes what God called good from the beginning.
I'm not walking that road. Enough of it going on already.

There is a dirty little secret, a lie rooted in all this, and it's this....
sssssh.
Come closer.
Hey, there's a snake by the door threshold. Well I'll be.....
"Psst, Did God really say earth is all there is? Humans made in His image is all there is? What do you think? God's holding out on you pal."

WHACK. CHOP.
Dead snake!!!!!

Blessings,
Mark

And, there it is! You have spoken and it is so.


Billy
Member # 16.
Re: 10 Reasons to Assume we are Not Alone [Re: Golf ball] #7565402
04/21/22 11:26 AM
04/21/22 11:26 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 41,592
Northern Maine
Bruce T Offline
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Bruce T  Offline
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Posts: 41,592
Northern Maine
Originally Posted by Golf ball
Iím gonna stir the pot a little here but Iím also looking for answers. Who wrote the Bible? What version and when ? I donít ever remember reading any version written by the Lords hand . Most was written by someone told to them by someone else long long after an event happened. Even the events written about Jesus were written more than a hundred years after his death . Now before you write me off as an atheist ( Iím not ) , think about what Iím saying. Has anyone ever seen the experiment where one person tells another person a joke and that joke is told to the next person and the next and so on and the last person tells the joke out loud to the rest of the group. I have been a part of one such experience while in high school , the joke was barely recognizable by the time it was told for the 12 th time.
I guess what Iím saying is we can only guess what has been omitted, embellished or misinterpreted. In my mind if you think me to be full of beans and you only believe what is written in one version of the Bible, well you kind of proved my point . Which is who knows what happened, we were not there !

Jesus's disciples by what Jesus told them and what they saw.


Nevada bound
Re: 10 Reasons to Assume we are Not Alone [Re: Finster] #7565536
04/21/22 01:48 PM
04/21/22 01:48 PM

M
Mark June
Unregistered
Mark June
Unregistered
M



God's Word is Truth we can stand on and because of the human condition, God's Word is convicting oftentimes as we tee up too much of us and too little of God.

Paul told that - with conviction - to Timothy in the 1st century, and we're still adhering to it today.
Amidst what Paul called "savage" people.
I read and reread 1 Timothy chapter 3 often.

Blessing,
Mark

Re: 10 Reasons to Assume we are Not Alone [Re: Finster] #7565947
04/21/22 10:15 PM
04/21/22 10:15 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,288
Waterville Minnesota
M
mudtracker Offline
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mudtracker  Offline
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Posts: 2,288
Waterville Minnesota
I'm not going to try to argue anyone out of their beliefs. I do have a few thoughts about this topic.

How many very unlikely things have you personally seen happen? I know I've seen several. Unlikely things happen all the time.

I have also thought about how easy it would be for people 2000 years ago living in a very low tech society to think that beings with advanced tech that they couldn't even begin to understand might be gods, Angel's or demons. I am in no way saying that's what happened. I think There were instances of ths kind of thing happening when Europeans met previously uncontacted people who were still basically in stone age societies.


WHO MADE THIS MESS ALL OVER MY FLOOR THE MUDTRACKER WAS HERE HE HE HE
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