Re: black one
[Re: gcs]
#7581213
05/10/22 10:34 AM
05/10/22 10:34 AM
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,486 Philippines, s.e. asia,ohio
west river rogue
OP
trapper
|
OP
trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,486
Philippines, s.e. asia,ohio
|
We have one area here that black squirrels , while not super common, live. maybe a square mile. None to the east, west, north or south. One year you'll see a half dozen, the next year none...wonder if the black ones get picked off easier by the hawks...? The black ones seem to get picked off by cars the most seems like. A town i stocked always has them killed on road.
|
|
|
Re: black one
[Re: west river rogue]
#7581219
05/10/22 10:44 AM
05/10/22 10:44 AM
|
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 321 Siberia 🐁
Tatiana
"Mushroom Guru"
|
"Mushroom Guru"
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 321
Siberia 🐁
|
The black ones seem to get picked off by cars the most seems like. A town i stocked always has them killed on road. Melanistic gray squirrels tend to become more common once they appear in the population in suburban and urban areas with low predator pressure. Somehow this melanistic mutation is connected with more brazen and aggressive behavior and black-colored squirrels push out regular agouti-colored ones. This might also explain why they get hit by cars more often. Coincidentally, a friend of mine used to breed laboratory rats that they selected solely for aggressive-defensive behavior (part of the Belyaev experiment), and after several generations, individuals with more melanin appeared in the stock spontaneously, so there's a biochemical connection between melanism and behavior of some sort.
|
|
|
Re: black one
[Re: Tatiana]
#7581231
05/10/22 10:56 AM
05/10/22 10:56 AM
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,486 Philippines, s.e. asia,ohio
west river rogue
OP
trapper
|
OP
trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,486
Philippines, s.e. asia,ohio
|
The black ones seem to get picked off by cars the most seems like. A town i stocked always has them killed on road. Melanistic gray squirrels tend to become more common once they appear in the population in suburban and urban areas with low predator pressure. Somehow this melanistic mutation is connected with more brazen and aggressive behavior and black-colored squirrels push out regular agouti-colored ones. This might also explain why they get hit by cars more often. Coincidentally, a friend of mine used to breed laboratory rats that they selected solely for aggressive-defensive behavior (part of the Belyaev experiment), and after several generations, individuals with more melanin appeared in the stock spontaneously, so there's a biochemical connection between melanism and behavior of some sort. Well,,the blacks seem aggressive in a cage but I have reds,blacks,grays and fox squirrels on my place and also in the village i stocked.....which is contrary to what you read. They also breed with grays .
|
|
|
Re: black one
[Re: west river rogue]
#7581234
05/10/22 11:04 AM
05/10/22 11:04 AM
|
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 321 Siberia 🐁
Tatiana
"Mushroom Guru"
|
"Mushroom Guru"
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 321
Siberia 🐁
|
the blacks seem aggressive in a cage but I have reds,blacks,grays and fox squirrels on my place and also in the village i stocked.....which is contrary to what you read.
This is just a hypothesis to explain why melanists become the dominant morph in some cities, which is a trend observed both in the US and in European countries where they have been introduced We only have red squirrels here, but among them, melanists are very rare and do not seem to become more common with time (but we have some pale oddballs with red tails, or colored like Siamese cats)....
|
|
|
Re: black one
[Re: Tatiana]
#7581243
05/10/22 11:11 AM
05/10/22 11:11 AM
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,486 Philippines, s.e. asia,ohio
west river rogue
OP
trapper
|
OP
trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,486
Philippines, s.e. asia,ohio
|
the blacks seem aggressive in a cage but I have reds,blacks,grays and fox squirrels on my place and also in the village i stocked.....which is contrary to what you read.
This is just a hypothesis to explain why melanists become the dominant morph in some cities, which is a trend observed both in the US and in European countries where they have been introduced We only have red squirrels here, but among them, melanists are very rare and do not seem to become more common with time (but we have some pale oddballs with red tails, or colored like Siamese cats).... I understood that but it doesnt hold true here. The blacks are always the minority here in my area and all the towns where we have them. I observe first hand as a field biologist and damage control trapper. Why,no idea. To say otherwise would only be a hypothesis on my part.
|
|
|
Re: black one
[Re: west river rogue]
#7581246
05/10/22 11:14 AM
05/10/22 11:14 AM
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 860 Michigan
Northcountry
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 860
Michigan
|
On any given squirrel hunt around my house, I will see red (pine), fox, gray and black squirrels. We have more black squirrels than any other type, by far. A black squirrel is simply a color phase of a gray squirrel and they are classified as such in our hunting rules. -NC
|
|
|
Re: black one
[Re: Northcountry]
#7581248
05/10/22 11:16 AM
05/10/22 11:16 AM
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,486 Philippines, s.e. asia,ohio
west river rogue
OP
trapper
|
OP
trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,486
Philippines, s.e. asia,ohio
|
On any given squirrel hunt around my house, I will see red (pine), fox, gray and black squirrels. We have more black squirrels than any other type, by far.
A black squirrel is simply a color phase of a gray squirrel and they are classified as such in our hunting rules.
-NC
exactly right@a color phase.
|
|
|
Re: black one
[Re: west river rogue]
#7581259
05/10/22 11:30 AM
05/10/22 11:30 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,976 MD
DaveP
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,976
MD
|
The black ones seem to get picked off by cars the most seems like. A town i stocked always has them killed on road. Melanistic gray squirrels tend to become more common once they appear in the population in suburban and urban areas with low predator pressure. Somehow this melanistic mutation is connected with more brazen and aggressive behavior and black-colored squirrels push out regular agouti-colored ones. This might also explain why they get hit by cars more often. Coincidentally, a friend of mine used to breed laboratory rats that they selected solely for aggressive-defensive behavior (part of the Belyaev experiment), and after several generations, individuals with more melanin appeared in the stock spontaneously, so there's a biochemical connection between melanism and behavior of some sort. My favorite college wildlife prof, Dr. Vagn Flyger mentioned this decades ago. Observed in a number of species. Interesting fellow. And pioneer in SO many areas of modern wildlife management. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vagn_F._Flyger
|
|
|
Re: black one
[Re: Tatiana]
#7581421
05/10/22 04:45 PM
05/10/22 04:45 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 2,844 Wy
Giant Sage
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 2,844
Wy
|
The black ones seem to get picked off by cars the most seems like. A town i stocked always has them killed on road. Melanistic gray squirrels tend to become more common once they appear in the population in suburban and urban areas with low predator pressure. Somehow this melanistic mutation is connected with more brazen and aggressive behavior and black-colored squirrels push out regular agouti-colored ones. This might also explain why they get hit by cars more often. Coincidentally, a friend of mine used to breed laboratory rats that they selected solely for aggressive-defensive behavior (part of the Belyaev experiment), and after several generations, individuals with more melanin appeared in the stock spontaneously, so there's a biochemical connection between melanism and behavior of some sort. I thought they got ran over because they look like a cat.
|
|
|
Re: black one
[Re: west river rogue]
#7581819
05/11/22 06:52 AM
05/11/22 06:52 AM
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 19,932 SEPA
Lugnut
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 19,932
SEPA
|
In fifty years of hunting squirrels in a two-county area here in southeast PA I have never seen a black squirrel. I spotted my first one three or four years ago in a forty-acre swamp I hunt behind my property. Since then they have increased to the point where about 25% are black.
There have always been black squirrels around my camp in north-central PA and the ratio of black to gray seems to hold at roughly 25%.
It has been my observation that they cohabit and I don't see more aggression from either the grays or the black color phase. I have a great picture somewhere of a gray and a black looking out of a den hole in the side of a huge oak tree.
Now red/pine squirrels are a different story. Despite their smaller size, those aggressive little buggers will drive grays out of the area.
Eh...wot?
|
|
|
Re: black one
[Re: west river rogue]
#7581893
05/11/22 08:59 AM
05/11/22 08:59 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,976 MD
DaveP
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,976
MD
|
This is just a hypothesis to explain why melanists become the dominant morph in some cities, which is a trend observed both in the US and in European countries where they have been introduced We only have red squirrels here, but among them, melanists are very rare and do not seem to become more common with time (but we have some pale oddballs with red tails, or colored like Siamese cats).... I understood that but it doesnt hold true here. The blacks are always the minority here in my area and all the towns where we have them. I observe first hand as a field biologist and damage control trapper. Why,no idea. To say otherwise would only be a hypothesis on my part.[/quote] Dr. Flyger did say that melanistic individuals within a species did have higher mortality rates, not just due to standing out to predators, but also because they are more aggressive/ risk takers.
|
|
|
|
|