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black one #7581204
05/10/22 10:14 AM
05/10/22 10:14 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,486
Philippines, s.e. asia,ohio
west river rogue Offline OP
trapper
west river rogue  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,486
Philippines, s.e. asia,ohio
Brought one here 20 yrs ago from a house job and still breeding blacks.[Linked Image]

Re: black one [Re: west river rogue] #7581212
05/10/22 10:30 AM
05/10/22 10:30 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,465
ny
G
gcs Offline
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gcs  Offline
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Posts: 2,465
ny
We have one area here that black squirrels , while not super common, live. maybe a square mile. None to the east, west, north or south. One year you'll see a half dozen, the next year none...wonder if the black ones get picked off easier by the hawks...?

Re: black one [Re: gcs] #7581213
05/10/22 10:34 AM
05/10/22 10:34 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,486
Philippines, s.e. asia,ohio
west river rogue Offline OP
trapper
west river rogue  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,486
Philippines, s.e. asia,ohio
Originally Posted by gcs
We have one area here that black squirrels , while not super common, live. maybe a square mile. None to the east, west, north or south. One year you'll see a half dozen, the next year none...wonder if the black ones get picked off easier by the hawks...?

The black ones seem to get picked off by cars the most seems like. A town i stocked always has them killed on road.

Re: black one [Re: west river rogue] #7581219
05/10/22 10:44 AM
05/10/22 10:44 AM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 321
Siberia 🐁
T
Tatiana Online content
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Tatiana  Online Content
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T

Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 321
Siberia 🐁
Originally Posted by west river rogue
The black ones seem to get picked off by cars the most seems like. A town i stocked always has them killed on road.


Melanistic gray squirrels tend to become more common once they appear in the population in suburban and urban areas with low predator pressure. Somehow this melanistic mutation is connected with more brazen and aggressive behavior and black-colored squirrels push out regular agouti-colored ones. This might also explain why they get hit by cars more often. Coincidentally, a friend of mine used to breed laboratory rats that they selected solely for aggressive-defensive behavior (part of the Belyaev experiment), and after several generations, individuals with more melanin appeared in the stock spontaneously, so there's a biochemical connection between melanism and behavior of some sort.

Re: black one [Re: west river rogue] #7581226
05/10/22 10:51 AM
05/10/22 10:51 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,317
New York ,Adirondack mts.
M
mole Offline
"The Tman morning greeter"
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,317
New York ,Adirondack mts.

Blackie

[Linked Image]

Re: black one [Re: west river rogue] #7581229
05/10/22 10:55 AM
05/10/22 10:55 AM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,951
rogers city mi.
J
jeff karsten Offline
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jeff karsten  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,951
rogers city mi.
more common here then any others


olden tyred
Re: black one [Re: Tatiana] #7581231
05/10/22 10:56 AM
05/10/22 10:56 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,486
Philippines, s.e. asia,ohio
west river rogue Offline OP
trapper
west river rogue  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,486
Philippines, s.e. asia,ohio
Originally Posted by Tatiana
Originally Posted by west river rogue
The black ones seem to get picked off by cars the most seems like. A town i stocked always has them killed on road.


Melanistic gray squirrels tend to become more common once they appear in the population in suburban and urban areas with low predator pressure. Somehow this melanistic mutation is connected with more brazen and aggressive behavior and black-colored squirrels push out regular agouti-colored ones. This might also explain why they get hit by cars more often. Coincidentally, a friend of mine used to breed laboratory rats that they selected solely for aggressive-defensive behavior (part of the Belyaev experiment), and after several generations, individuals with more melanin appeared in the stock spontaneously, so there's a biochemical connection between melanism and behavior of some sort.

Well,,the blacks seem aggressive in a cage but I have reds,blacks,grays and fox squirrels on my place and also in the village i stocked.....which is contrary to what you read. They also breed with grays .

Re: black one [Re: west river rogue] #7581234
05/10/22 11:04 AM
05/10/22 11:04 AM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 321
Siberia 🐁
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Tatiana Online content
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Tatiana  Online Content
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Joined: Nov 2017
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Quote

the blacks seem aggressive in a cage but I have reds,blacks,grays and fox squirrels on my place and also in the village i stocked.....which is contrary to what you read.

This is just a hypothesis to explain why melanists become the dominant morph in some cities, which is a trend observed both in the US and in European countries where they have been introduced smile

We only have red squirrels here, but among them, melanists are very rare and do not seem to become more common with time (but we have some pale oddballs with red tails, or colored like Siamese cats)....

Re: black one [Re: Tatiana] #7581243
05/10/22 11:11 AM
05/10/22 11:11 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,486
Philippines, s.e. asia,ohio
west river rogue Offline OP
trapper
west river rogue  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,486
Philippines, s.e. asia,ohio
Originally Posted by Tatiana
Quote

the blacks seem aggressive in a cage but I have reds,blacks,grays and fox squirrels on my place and also in the village i stocked.....which is contrary to what you read.

This is just a hypothesis to explain why melanists become the dominant morph in some cities, which is a trend observed both in the US and in European countries where they have been introduced smile

We only have red squirrels here, but among them, melanists are very rare and do not seem to become more common with time (but we have some pale oddballs with red tails, or colored like Siamese cats)....

I understood that but it doesnt hold true here. The blacks are always the minority here in my area and all the towns where we have them. I observe first hand as a field biologist and damage control trapper. Why,no idea. To say otherwise would only be a hypothesis on my part.

Re: black one [Re: west river rogue] #7581246
05/10/22 11:14 AM
05/10/22 11:14 AM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 860
Michigan
Northcountry Offline
trapper
Northcountry  Offline
trapper

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 860
Michigan
On any given squirrel hunt around my house, I will see red (pine), fox, gray and black squirrels. We have more black squirrels than any other type, by far.

A black squirrel is simply a color phase of a gray squirrel and they are classified as such in our hunting rules.

[Linked Image]

-NC

Re: black one [Re: Northcountry] #7581248
05/10/22 11:16 AM
05/10/22 11:16 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,486
Philippines, s.e. asia,ohio
west river rogue Offline OP
trapper
west river rogue  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,486
Philippines, s.e. asia,ohio
Originally Posted by Northcountry
On any given squirrel hunt around my house, I will see red (pine), fox, gray and black squirrels. We have more black squirrels than any other type, by far.

A black squirrel is simply a color phase of a gray squirrel and they are classified as such in our hunting rules.

-NC

exactly right@a color phase.

Re: black one [Re: west river rogue] #7581252
05/10/22 11:21 AM
05/10/22 11:21 AM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 321
Siberia 🐁
T
Tatiana Online content
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Tatiana  Online Content
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T

Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 321
Siberia 🐁
Quote

I understood that but it doesnt hold true here. The blacks are always the minority here in my area and all the towns where we have them. I observe first hand as a field biologist and damage control trapper. Why,no idea. To say otherwise would only be a theory on my part.

Interesting! Coat color genetics is a fascinating subject. About 40 years ago, we had a sudden influx of odd-colored squirrels, which were also very friendly. I only have a few old pictures my dad took, but some of those squirrels were very unusual, including piebald with blue eyes, or black with white bands on their tails, etc. They disappeared completely after a few years, so some people think they were a product of some secret experiment....

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

Re: black one [Re: west river rogue] #7581259
05/10/22 11:30 AM
05/10/22 11:30 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,976
MD
D
DaveP Offline
trapper
DaveP  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,976
MD
Originally Posted by Tatiana
Originally Posted by west river rogue
The black ones seem to get picked off by cars the most seems like. A town i stocked always has them killed on road.


Melanistic gray squirrels tend to become more common once they appear in the population in suburban and urban areas with low predator pressure. Somehow this melanistic mutation is connected with more brazen and aggressive behavior and black-colored squirrels push out regular agouti-colored ones. This might also explain why they get hit by cars more often. Coincidentally, a friend of mine used to breed laboratory rats that they selected solely for aggressive-defensive behavior (part of the Belyaev experiment), and after several generations, individuals with more melanin appeared in the stock spontaneously, so there's a biochemical connection between melanism and behavior of some sort.



My favorite college wildlife prof, Dr. Vagn Flyger mentioned this decades ago. Observed in a number of species.

Interesting fellow.
And pioneer in SO many areas of modern wildlife management.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vagn_F._Flyger

Re: black one [Re: Tatiana] #7581421
05/10/22 04:45 PM
05/10/22 04:45 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 2,844
Wy
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Giant Sage Online content
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Joined: Mar 2017
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Wy
Originally Posted by Tatiana
Originally Posted by west river rogue
The black ones seem to get picked off by cars the most seems like. A town i stocked always has them killed on road.


Melanistic gray squirrels tend to become more common once they appear in the population in suburban and urban areas with low predator pressure. Somehow this melanistic mutation is connected with more brazen and aggressive behavior and black-colored squirrels push out regular agouti-colored ones. This might also explain why they get hit by cars more often. Coincidentally, a friend of mine used to breed laboratory rats that they selected solely for aggressive-defensive behavior (part of the Belyaev experiment), and after several generations, individuals with more melanin appeared in the stock spontaneously, so there's a biochemical connection between melanism and behavior of some sort.

I thought they got ran over because they look like a cat. whistle

Re: black one [Re: west river rogue] #7581776
05/11/22 01:20 AM
05/11/22 01:20 AM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 7,631
Virginia
5
52Carl Offline
trapper
52Carl  Offline
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5

Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 7,631
Virginia
Where I grew up in a small town in southern Michigan, if you saw a gray colored gray squirrel, it was considered a freak of nature. Pretty much all black squirrels.

Re: black one [Re: west river rogue] #7581819
05/11/22 06:52 AM
05/11/22 06:52 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 19,932
SEPA
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Lugnut Offline
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Posts: 19,932
SEPA
In fifty years of hunting squirrels in a two-county area here in southeast PA I have never seen a black squirrel. I spotted my first one three or four years ago in a forty-acre swamp I hunt behind my property. Since then they have increased to the point where about 25% are black.

There have always been black squirrels around my camp in north-central PA and the ratio of black to gray seems to hold at roughly 25%.

It has been my observation that they cohabit and I don't see more aggression from either the grays or the black color phase. I have a great picture somewhere of a gray and a black looking out of a den hole in the side of a huge oak tree.

Now red/pine squirrels are a different story. Despite their smaller size, those aggressive little buggers will drive grays out of the area.


Eh...wot?

Re: black one [Re: west river rogue] #7581893
05/11/22 08:59 AM
05/11/22 08:59 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,976
MD
D
DaveP Offline
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Posts: 4,976
MD
Originally Posted by west river rogue

This is just a hypothesis to explain why melanists become the dominant morph in some cities, which is a trend observed both in the US and in European countries where they have been introduced smile

We only have red squirrels here, but among them, melanists are very rare and do not seem to become more common with time (but we have some pale oddballs with red tails, or colored like Siamese cats)....

I understood that but it doesnt hold true here. The blacks are always the minority here in my area and all the towns where we have them. I observe first hand as a field biologist and damage control trapper. Why,no idea. To say otherwise would only be a hypothesis on my part.[/quote]


Dr. Flyger did say that melanistic individuals within a species did have higher mortality rates, not just due to standing out to predators, but also because they are more aggressive/ risk takers.

Re: black one [Re: DaveP] #7581912
05/11/22 09:49 AM
05/11/22 09:49 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,486
Philippines, s.e. asia,ohio
west river rogue Offline OP
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west river rogue  Offline OP
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Philippines, s.e. asia,ohio



Dr. Flyger did say that melanistic individuals within a species did have higher mortality rates, not just due to standing out to predators, but also because they are more aggressive/ risk takers.[/quote]
Ill buy that!

Re: black one [Re: west river rogue] #7581936
05/11/22 11:10 AM
05/11/22 11:10 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 62,664
Minnesota
330-Trapper Offline

trapper
330-Trapper  Offline

trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 62,664
Minnesota
Like em!!


NRA and NTA Life Member
www.BackroadsRevised@etsy.com




Re: black one [Re: west river rogue] #7581963
05/11/22 12:05 PM
05/11/22 12:05 PM
Joined: Feb 2022
Posts: 497
Arkansas
W
WhiteCliffs Offline
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WhiteCliffs  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2022
Posts: 497
Arkansas
Kind of odd, we have a few black squirrels down here in the south and they are color phase of fox squirrels - not gray squirrels.

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