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On the subject Converting "Antis" #7583164
05/13/22 11:57 AM
05/13/22 11:57 AM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 8,329
Amite county Mississippi
Wolfdog91 Offline OP
trapper
Wolfdog91  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 8,329
Amite county Mississippi
Disclaimer : just to save alot of people time and breath. Yes this is a long post ,yes I do sound like a complete liberal to alot of y'all, no I'm not saying every trapper need to be doing this. I'm not saying that is the best way to do this. If your a manly man who thinks think you should try to make everyone who's anti fur and cry then just save yourself some time and don't read this. I'm just sharing my experience and I'm not saying this will convert every anti on the planet. NO IM NOT AND EXPERT

Talking to alot of people who many would consider antis or anti fur. I'm in alot of different things that lead me to talk to folks who consider themselves antitrappers or anti fur and honestly I gotta say a good 70% of them actually ain't that hard to convince other wise. I mean seriously you just cannot come at it front he mind set of a trapper first,just don't work it seems. And don't get defensive either. So here the usual deal that seems to happen.
Just talking and the subject of Wear fur or similar comes up. Usually it's something along the lines of " I don't wear fur because fur is murder or killing animals strictly for fur really dosent seem right"

BTW keep laws politics and religion out of this entire conversation nobody cares just don't do it.

I usually tell them I find that thought process interesting and ask them to explain a little more howed they come to think this so on and so on and usually what it is they genuinely like animals, they don't like seeing animals harmed what so ever and they see PETA and similar as these shining knights. You have to understand that easily 60% of these people are not these crazy nut jobs that will burn your house down. Those are a completely different deal all together and where not speaking on them. The others 70 something percent really aren't bad people.They really really just don't know too much though they just think that these organizations are full of nice people.helping animals and their donations are the one little thing they can do because they physically can't do much. So many outdoors men I talk to would really blow up on these type of folks calling them names and the like or send them pic of dead animals ( please for the sake of God don't do that ! All that does is create enemies for us). That's seriously the wrong things to do
Now the key that I'm finding here is you cannot ,and I see this happen soooooo much, you cannot try and just stone wall these people with facts or this " nature is cruel and everything you know is a lie " thing I see so many trappers and other outdoors men do. It's like it send them into shock and their first response to just revert back to what they "know" and double down then they get defensive,your gonna get defensive and it's just not gonna work what so ever. It's like telling a guy who's only ever used a 30-30 int the deep woods of the UP that a scoped 6.5 creed is the best thing ever just won't work, can throw all the facts you want just won't,they will double down on their experience and that's it.
Best thing I've found is get a little common ground and walk them in. And honestly it's seriously not that hard ,well at least for me it isn't. They say they love animals . Hay I do to ! Talk about my dogs my ,fish ,how I've rehabbed baby critters or why I like this perticular animal so much why I think various predators are so cool yadda yadda yadda . Not really too much. Then their like hay that awsome! Now we got some common ground they feel respected. Now we can actually have a conversation. And I'll tell them " well you know I do hunt trap and fish" .
Now once you say that it usually confuses them a bit. And when they ask the pretty common thing of " wait you love animals? But you kill animals?" That's where you can actually start to change somones mind. Because if your like me and you showed them all this pictures of animals you own baby critters you've raised up your you can speak with some emotion (gotta understand alot of these people are a bit on the emotional side for various reasons) about why you like this animal or watching deer or whatever it's pretty hard at that point of them to say " well who cares he's just a cold hearted murder" I mean they can but since your not pushing them to accept anything really their not going to just be freaking out . It's just a easier pill for them.
Then at that point you can calmly ( and there's a difference between being calm like your dad when he's disappointed in you and calm like your happy to have a friendly chat) explain what you do in short kinda professional terms. Dont go " o heck yeah I'm best coyote killer in there here woods ! Can't stand em !wanna kill everyone I see ! " Just say yeah I'm a licensed trapper been doing it for a while and theirs honestly alot people really don't understand about what we do .
Don't get super technical be down to earth and just try and keep some common ground. If they say they don't like the idea of trapping animals just for fur most trappers can probably agree with them in that like " well I can understand you not wanting people to kill animals JUST for there fur but that actually not really the case many times" Something along those lines will usually get them curious enough to ask more questions. Your not being confrontational your being kind and inviting so it just makes folks feel like they won't be made to feel stupid for asking stuff they just plain dont know. And after talking to alot of these type of people that's a big deal. Alot of them are very curious but they just had bad experiences trying to learn and folks making them feel stupid.
So yeah if they ask something like " well do you eat them ? " Just explain in a relaxed manner that no these animals you can't eat for XYZ reason. Explain most other animals won't even touch the meat . But after you say that gotta give a positive. Like " yeah it's a shame you can't really east coyotes but along with the fur you can also clean the skulls and other various bones for resale the glands can be used to this and that the carcasses can help various scavenger birds during the winter ect. Give positives but don't just blow wind up there rears like trapping and fur is the best thing since sliced bread.
And once you got all that going and their actually curious then You can reccomended them go and read a article about stuff peta does. Noting about how they send death threats and all that stuff . Just " hay look I know you said you love animals and you donate to PETA because you think their really good people and I get that but I'd reccomended you check out some of this stuff about where all the money goes and what happens to alot of these animals" don't push it just offer it. If they take it fine if they don't fine.
And honestly that's really all it takes to just lay the "ground work"
. There's a bit more too it and it seem like a lot but try it isn't and I've had alot of people end up sending me messages later on asking about trapping wolves or if they still use traps that break their feet .again alot of these people really don't know , they think theirs only like 100 wolves left in the world. Like one of the girls I hand out with alot thought river otters where almost extinct till I explained to her how they've been re introduced to many states and their thriving down here to the point their actually a problem. I've gotten a lot of messages down the lines of " hay you made alot of sense any recommendations where I could buy some fur XYZ" or " hay you where right ! I looked Into PETA and their horrible" I've gotten as down right stuff like " hay I don't think I'll ever really be comfortable with the idea of wearing fur but since talking with you I don't think trappers and hunters are really as bad as Everyone says " but yeah I was just talking to a girl on one of my gaming chats about fur and got her not more accepting of the idea and while it was still fresh I. My mind figured I type this up.

Last edited by Wolfdog91; 05/13/22 12:10 PM.

Trappermans Resident Black Guy
The Black Redneck! 22yrs
MS National Guardsmen
I Like Moddin Traps 'N Trapping Possums
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Re: On the subject Converting "Antis" [Re: Wolfdog91] #7583169
05/13/22 12:15 PM
05/13/22 12:15 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 24,867
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
D

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 24,867
williamsburg ks
I gave up on them. Trying to convert an anti is hopeless. If reality could change their mind they wouldn't be an anti. They live in a fantasy world inside their head and you can't drag them out of it. A few urbanites are unaware of the cruelty (for lack of a better word) in the natural world and can be educated. You might could win the powerball too


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: On the subject Converting "Antis" [Re: Wolfdog91] #7583173
05/13/22 12:24 PM
05/13/22 12:24 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,597
La Crosse, WI
Macthediver Offline
trapper
Macthediver  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,597
La Crosse, WI
Danny is right a true anti you can never change. The only Christian way to would be to just eliminate them.

Mac


"Never Forget Which Way Is Up"

Re: On the subject Converting "Antis" [Re: Wolfdog91] #7583177
05/13/22 12:29 PM
05/13/22 12:29 PM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 8,329
Amite county Mississippi
Wolfdog91 Offline OP
trapper
Wolfdog91  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 8,329
Amite county Mississippi
Third paragraph I explain I'm not talking about true crazy antis.....


Trappermans Resident Black Guy
The Black Redneck! 22yrs
MS National Guardsmen
I Like Moddin Traps 'N Trapping Possums
Go Ordnance!!!!
Tman Archivist
Re: On the subject Converting "Antis" [Re: Wolfdog91] #7583218
05/13/22 01:57 PM
05/13/22 01:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 17,444
Georgia
warrior Offline
trapper
warrior  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 17,444
Georgia
My experience.

The vast majority have no firm position on trapping other than it seems distasteful based on what they've been exposed to by society. Yet when the squirrels move into the attic or in a recent example foxes under a deck it do what you gotta do to get them gone.

Re: On the subject Converting "Antis" [Re: warrior] #7583223
05/13/22 02:18 PM
05/13/22 02:18 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,324
AK
F
FairbanksLS Offline
trapper
FairbanksLS  Offline
trapper
F

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,324
AK
Originally Posted by warrior
My experience.

The vast majority have no firm position on trapping other than it seems distasteful based on what they've been exposed to by society. Yet when the squirrels move into the attic or in a recent example foxes under a deck it do what you gotta do to get them gone.


TRUTH


formerly posting as white dog
Re: On the subject Converting "Antis" [Re: Wolfdog91] #7583234
05/13/22 02:40 PM
05/13/22 02:40 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 9,152
Montana ,Rocky Mtns.
Sharon Offline
"American Honey"
Sharon  Offline
"American Honey"

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 9,152
Montana ,Rocky Mtns.
This type of reasoning has been done on a professional level for decades.

Bob Noonan has written many articles on the genteel approach of an ADC man reasoning with clients and others who are curious. I have never known anyone explain and reason with this subject better than Bob.

Many ADC men who work regularly with people in bigger cities and the berbs usually have a seasoned easy way of dealing with those who just need more education.

I tell people my own experience in coming to know about trapping . It puts them at ease a lot more, in that they aren't the only ones who at some point didn't know about trapping and the reasons why it is done.

Like anything else, and I mean anything, in which someone has their mind basically made up due to emotion and/or not having facts presented to them, it takes time, and finding common ground is the place to start. Then it is up to them to absorb what they have learned, and find the humility to want to be educated further.

Re: On the subject Converting "Antis" [Re: Wolfdog91] #7583238
05/13/22 02:56 PM
05/13/22 02:56 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,324
AK
F
FairbanksLS Offline
trapper
FairbanksLS  Offline
trapper
F

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,324
AK

Conversation instead of confrontation. Developing rapport is an essential component when trying to influence thoughts. Or at least thatís my experience.

Convincing someone that something is ethical and morally right is much more important than telling them you have a legal right. The simple solution if someone uses the legal right argument is to change the law. We have seen many examples of that over the past 40 years.


formerly posting as white dog
Re: On the subject Converting "Antis" [Re: Wolfdog91] #7583248
05/13/22 03:30 PM
05/13/22 03:30 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 15,287
pa
H
hippie Offline
trapper
hippie  Offline
trapper
H

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 15,287
pa
It starts with their parents and continues in our schools.

Nothing you can do about how their parents think, but there is about the school environment they're subjected to.

Re: On the subject Converting "Antis" [Re: Wolfdog91] #7583251
05/13/22 03:38 PM
05/13/22 03:38 PM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,314
east central WI
D
Dirty D Offline
trapper
Dirty D  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,314
east central WI
Wolfie, you are wise beyond your years.

I see many hunters/trappers and fisherman not only on this site but others with an obnoxious attitudes about wildlife that hurts our side more than they realize. Maybe they don't care, I'm not sure.

Most younger people I know are generally anti's on a low level. They don't hunt/fish/trap. They have no exposure to it so they are unaware of alot. I have never met a rapid anti. But I live in a rural area and most around here understand mother natures cruelties.

I can talk to them and while they don't agree with hunting/fishing/trapping they can easily be convinced that its not just a bad thing. I usually start with what i feel is the right premise that its like everything, there is good and bad to it. Exposing the good along with the bad helps. Shows that you are not closed minded and you are willing to give them points. Doing this will help them to give you points and move them your way.

Re: On the subject Converting "Antis" [Re: FairbanksLS] #7583636
05/14/22 08:28 AM
05/14/22 08:28 AM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 8,329
Amite county Mississippi
Wolfdog91 Offline OP
trapper
Wolfdog91  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 8,329
Amite county Mississippi
Originally Posted by white dog

Conversation instead of confrontation. Developing rapport is an essential component when trying to influence thoughts. Or at least thatís my experience.

Convincing someone that something is ethical and morally right is much more important than telling them you have a legal right. The simple solution if someone uses the legal right argument is to change the law. We have seen many examples of that over the past 40 years.


Yep, that what I can't get into alot of trappers heads. They'll do something that gets Karen up in flames and can't understand why she's still mad when they explain something is legal to do. Theirs 100 upon thousands of things that are legal to do but just plain ain't right so that's a crappy argument.


Trappermans Resident Black Guy
The Black Redneck! 22yrs
MS National Guardsmen
I Like Moddin Traps 'N Trapping Possums
Go Ordnance!!!!
Tman Archivist
Re: On the subject Converting "Antis" [Re: Dirty D] #7583642
05/14/22 08:32 AM
05/14/22 08:32 AM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 8,329
Amite county Mississippi
Wolfdog91 Offline OP
trapper
Wolfdog91  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 8,329
Amite county Mississippi
Originally Posted by Dirty D
Wolfie, you are wise beyond your years.

I see many hunters/trappers and fisherman not only on this site but others with an obnoxious attitudes about wildlife that hurts our side more than they realize. Maybe they don't care, I'm not sure.

Most younger people I know are generally anti's on a low level. They don't hunt/fish/trap. They have no exposure to it so they are unaware of alot. I have never met a rapid anti. But I live in a rural area and most around here understand mother natures cruelties.

I can talk to them and while they don't agree with hunting/fishing/trapping they can easily be convinced that its not just a bad thing. I usually start with what i feel is the right premise that its like everything, there is good and bad to it. Exposing the good along with the bad helps. Shows that you are not closed minded and you are willing to give them points. Doing this will help them to give you points and move them your way.



Thanks for the compliment, wouldn't say I'm wise though lol. But yeah the amount of outdoors men who just don't care is crazy. I could tell stories for days about clashes I've had with other outdoors man but I don't feel like typing that much. But to say we are out own worst enemies many times is an understatement.


Trappermans Resident Black Guy
The Black Redneck! 22yrs
MS National Guardsmen
I Like Moddin Traps 'N Trapping Possums
Go Ordnance!!!!
Tman Archivist
Re: On the subject Converting "Antis" [Re: Sharon] #7583645
05/14/22 08:36 AM
05/14/22 08:36 AM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 8,329
Amite county Mississippi
Wolfdog91 Offline OP
trapper
Wolfdog91  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 8,329
Amite county Mississippi
Originally Posted by Sharon
This type of reasoning has been done on a professional level for decades.

Bob Noonan has written many articles on the genteel approach of an ADC man reasoning with clients and others who are curious. I have never known anyone explain and reason with this subject better than Bob.

Many ADC men who work regularly with people in bigger cities and the berbs usually have a seasoned easy way of dealing with those who just need more education.

I tell people my own experience in coming to know about trapping . It puts them at ease a lot more, in that they aren't the only ones who at some point didn't know about trapping and the reasons why it is done.

Like anything else, and I mean anything, in which someone has their mind basically made up due to emotion and/or not having facts presented to them, it takes time, and finding common ground is the place to start. Then it is up to them to absorb what they have learned, and find the humility to want to be educated further.





I used to watch alot of debates and what not and that where I learned alot of this from. Look at somone like Jordan Peterson, the guy absolutely destroys people because he does basically what you state in your last paragraph.


Trappermans Resident Black Guy
The Black Redneck! 22yrs
MS National Guardsmen
I Like Moddin Traps 'N Trapping Possums
Go Ordnance!!!!
Tman Archivist
Re: On the subject Converting "Antis" [Re: Wolfdog91] #7583661
05/14/22 08:49 AM
05/14/22 08:49 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 17,444
Georgia
warrior Offline
trapper
warrior  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 17,444
Georgia
I'm seeing something here I don't like.

Calling out other outdoors folk as obnoxious is not our problem. Matter of of fact it's this cowardice that we somehow have to hide and sneak around that has not only trappers but all that is right and correct in our society in full retreat before the onslaught of the left.

We wonder just how we lost the universities or why perversion is the rule of the day in our primary schools.

It's cowardice and feel good go along to get along.

We as outdoorsman have absolutely nothing to be ashamed of. If anything we have demonstrated over the last century one of if not the best example of wildlife management and conservation on the planet.

We should flaunt that and be proud.

To cower and hide our activities is to tacitly admit to undue shame and wrongdoing.

Re: On the subject Converting "Antis" [Re: warrior] #7583671
05/14/22 09:00 AM
05/14/22 09:00 AM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 8,329
Amite county Mississippi
Wolfdog91 Offline OP
trapper
Wolfdog91  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 8,329
Amite county Mississippi
Originally Posted by warrior
I'm seeing something here I don't like.

Calling out other outdoors folk as obnoxious is not our problem. Matter of of fact it's this cowardice that we somehow have to hide and sneak around that has not only trappers but all that is right and correct in our society in full retreat before the onslaught of the left.

We wonder just how we lost the universities or why perversion is the rule of the day in our primary schools.

It's cowardice and feel good go along to get along.

We as outdoorsman have absolutely nothing to be ashamed of. If anything we have demonstrated over the last century one of if not the best example of wildlife management and conservation on the planet.

We should flaunt that and be proud.

To cower and hide our activities is to tacitly admit to undue shame and wrongdoing.


Theres a big difference. You wanna see true cowardice? Go look at the Brit outdoors man and how they've throwing each other under the bus left and right to try and keep the antis appeased. That's NOT waht I'm talking about at All! What where talking about is something else. I'm talking about guys who have no tact what so ever in the public eye. There's a big difference in pride and " hay imma send this picture of this deer who I just head shotted to PETA because screw them bunny huggers".


Trappermans Resident Black Guy
The Black Redneck! 22yrs
MS National Guardsmen
I Like Moddin Traps 'N Trapping Possums
Go Ordnance!!!!
Tman Archivist
Re: On the subject Converting "Antis" [Re: Wolfdog91] #7583673
05/14/22 09:07 AM
05/14/22 09:07 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 17,444
Georgia
warrior Offline
trapper
warrior  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 17,444
Georgia
Well there is no need to pick fights needlessly or insult folks. I agree there are some among us that need a good talking to or even trip to the woodshed.

Re: On the subject Converting "Antis" [Re: Wolfdog91] #7583674
05/14/22 09:08 AM
05/14/22 09:08 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 24,867
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
D

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 24,867
williamsburg ks
Good post warrior. I am convinced we wont change their minds. If somebody wants to be vegan or refuses to use anything leather or fur I am fine with it.

Till they try to tell me how to live. I have yet to meet a fantasy land, rose colored glasses wearing communist that cares whether or not I am offended. I have yet to meet one that doesn't want to change the law and make me criminal.

They can pound sand and suck eggs so far as I am concerned. I will NEVER try to appease them in any fashion. People who think they need to tell me how to live are just pond scum.


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: On the subject Converting "Antis" [Re: Wolfdog91] #7583683
05/14/22 09:15 AM
05/14/22 09:15 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,597
La Crosse, WI
Macthediver Offline
trapper
Macthediver  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,597
La Crosse, WI
Wolfdog91

I agree with you on so many points. What I posted above is some what meant as sarcastic.
Its not just trappers that run into what you could almost call soft anti. They are out there in all forms for everything from fishing to ATVing. On the edge of going one way or another based on one bad experience.

A lot of the problem comes from people who have a permit or stamp or license to do what ever their doing. So they go out and just run everyone and everything over.
Try running an air boat past a group of kayaks.. or even a loud mudmotor. Their are so many user group now all crammed into the same area. Everyone trying to do their thing with out being distributed or interfered with by others. Alot of it seems to me like people only caring about me mine and you are in my way.
Their is an individual who owns property on the same lake I do. He runs his very expensive ski boat with very expensive sound system around the lake. Not big deal right? There are several others with similar boats. Only this particular individual plays music while pulling skiers which is less than generally played in public setting. The F this F that.. it's not even that they play it. But I can clearly hear it from mile away. When this individual was politely asked to turn his volume down. He pretty much said F you your just jealous of my boat.
Now I'm the kind of person who would like to take my airboat. Go spin circle in front this guy property at midnight. I certainly have a right to.
But that makes me no better than him. So how do you deal with a person like that. If I was some just at the beach for the day and heard this guy. I would then think everyone with a boat like his would be the same kind of person.
So all those kind boat people are now pigeon holed as something to dislike should be ban? Right?

Their are so many people that do everything with a chip on their shoulder. Their rude and obnoxious and don't even know it or don't care. You have to sit by them at ball game. Fish by them on river. Pretty sure they are probably on the golf course. I don't play golf but I seen them while I was in the pond diving for golf balls.
That might all work fine for them in their little world. But when they interface in to a public setting. Then the issue begin.
Unfortunately the smallest users groups are first to get run over. I think us trappers unfortunately fall into a small user group. Only takes a few rude soccer mom type trappers make the rest look bad.

Mac


"Never Forget Which Way Is Up"

Re: On the subject Converting "Antis" [Re: warrior] #7583690
05/14/22 09:20 AM
05/14/22 09:20 AM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 8,329
Amite county Mississippi
Wolfdog91 Offline OP
trapper
Wolfdog91  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 8,329
Amite county Mississippi
Originally Posted by warrior
Well there is no need to pick fights needlessly or insult folks. I agree there are some among us that need a good talking to or even trip to the woodshed.

I'm not picking fights I'm just stating facts. I don't say any names or anything like that so don't know who would get insulted unless they just want to. The fact is there's people in our community who are not good reps for us and can be damaging to us. Just plain and simple. That's not an insult that's, not picking a fight, that's just plain and simple honesty. I'm 80% sure if I went to every trapper and asked if they knew another trapper hunter ect that they they think wouldn't be a good person to try and talk to the general public about trapping they would definitely have someone if they where bing honest.


Trappermans Resident Black Guy
The Black Redneck! 22yrs
MS National Guardsmen
I Like Moddin Traps 'N Trapping Possums
Go Ordnance!!!!
Tman Archivist
Re: On the subject Converting "Antis" [Re: Wolfdog91] #7583691
05/14/22 09:20 AM
05/14/22 09:20 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 24,867
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
D

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 24,867
williamsburg ks
Good post also Mark. I didnt mean to imply I condone rude behavior. Just that I am done trying to appease those who want to make me a criminal.


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
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