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Re: No need for semi-automatic rifles? [Re: seniortrap] #7594243
05/29/22 09:48 PM
05/29/22 09:48 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 179
Montana/Florida
G
Gene Dziza Offline
trapper
Gene Dziza  Offline
trapper
G

Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 179
Montana/Florida
I have what would be considered an "AR", I guess. I love the gun. It's decked out too. I keep it handy in a biometric safe where I sleep. It has never, and will never, be used for any nefarious purpose. Why should I have to give that gun up when I am a law abiding citizen? Do I "need" it? Do I "need" my 15 round Glocks? Do you own any guns you don't "need"? Chances are, you have a few you don't "need." I suppose I can live without guns, but I want guns, and it is my constitutional right to own them. That's one of the things that makes this country great. The "need" arguement is a weak one as far as I'm concerned.

I don't know what makes someone want to shoot up school kids. That's the deeper problem. Taking certain guns is an easy solution that disarms a huge number of law abiding citizens and makes politicians feel like they're doing something, but I suspect it won't help much. The problem is much deeper rooted than that. Guns have been around for a long time. Mass shootings have occurred largely in more recent years. But, I know the Democrats are going to try to come for my guns before the midterm. And don't be fooled into thinking they are not interested in going beyond the so called AR'S.

Re: No need for semi-automatic rifles? [Re: seniortrap] #7594245
05/29/22 09:50 PM
05/29/22 09:50 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,783
East-Central Wisconsin
B
bblwi Offline
trapper
bblwi  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,783
East-Central Wisconsin
So you want to convince a real or potential mentally ill person with potential PSTD issues and others that owning firearms and those with higher capacity etc. is good so you can "win him over to our side" ! The whole 2nd amendment argument is that it is mental illness in humans and not guns that is the issue? If the person has very serious mental or behavioral issues to me it would be best to help him move forward and help him find a stronger support system instead of working to sway his mind on an issue or two.

Bryce

Re: No need for semi-automatic rifles? [Re: bblwi] #7594249
05/29/22 09:55 PM
05/29/22 09:55 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,324
AK
F
FairbanksLS Offline
trapper
FairbanksLS  Offline
trapper
F

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,324
AK
Originally Posted by bblwi
So you want to convince a real or potential mentally ill person with potential PSTD issues and others that owning firearms and those with higher capacity etc. is good so you can "win him over to our side" ! The whole 2nd amendment argument is that it is mental illness in humans and not guns that is the issue? If the person has very serious mental or behavioral issues to me it would be best to help him move forward and help him find a stronger support system instead of working to sway his mind on an issue or two.

Bryce


Tunnel vision


formerly posting as white dog
Re: No need for semi-automatic rifles? [Re: seniortrap] #7594261
05/29/22 10:11 PM
05/29/22 10:11 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 37,171
james bay frontierOnt.
B
Boco Offline
trapper
Boco  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 37,171
james bay frontierOnt.
Dont see any advantage to a semi auto for someone suiciding themselves.


Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: No need for semi-automatic rifles? [Re: jbyrd63] #7594298
05/30/22 12:00 AM
05/30/22 12:00 AM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 770
WI
B
BvrRetriever Offline
trapper
BvrRetriever  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 770
WI
Originally Posted by jbyrd63

Hope you guys live long and prosper this one did me in
Adios


Iím sure youíre just spouting off like usualÖ but just in case, ba beye!

Re: No need for semi-automatic rifles? [Re: seniortrap] #7594307
05/30/22 12:57 AM
05/30/22 12:57 AM
Joined: Feb 2022
Posts: 72
Arkansas
W
WhiteCliffs Offline
trapper
WhiteCliffs  Offline
trapper
W

Joined: Feb 2022
Posts: 72
Arkansas
I dont consider my ARís assault weapons - I consider them anti assault weapons. To me, an AR 15 is the finest hunting weapon ever made - for my purposes. No, I wouldnt take one on an elk or elephant hunt - but for deer, black bear, hogs, antelope, varmints, etc - they are hard to beat. My 6.5 Grendel with the collapsable stock fits my ten yr old grand daughter - or my son who is 6í3Ē. All picatinny scope rings fit my PSA .300 aac or my Remington AR 15 .450 Bushmaster or Daniel Defense .308 AR 10. I can mount red dots, night lights, thermals, night vision, regular scopes - almost any optic made. I can use a five round mag for deer hunting or a 30 rd mag for hogs. The mags fit all my guns of like caliber - and some of different calibers. The same timney trigger fits every one of my rifles. I can go prairie dog hunting with a .223 during the day, and in 30 seconds, swap out the upper to a .450 bushmaster and thermal for night time hogs. Stocks, forearms, barrels, bolts, etc are largely interchangeable. I cant think of a better designed HUNTING rifle for small to medium sized game than an AR style rifle.

Re: No need for semi-automatic rifles? [Re: charles] #7594313
05/30/22 05:28 AM
05/30/22 05:28 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,452
Northern lower Michigan
Feedinggrounds Offline
trapper
Feedinggrounds  Offline
trapper

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,452
Northern lower Michigan
Originally Posted by charles
An assault weapon is designed to kill people in combat situations. Unfortunately, some disturbed people have resulted to using them to murder innocent people they donít even know. I donít have a solution to mass murder with assault weapons. Fortunately we have one less killer among us, but 21 innocent deaths and some seriously injured minds and bodies. How do we stop this mass murdering?

Not sure that a phone book has ever killed anyone or that we can even find one today.

Not sure if we stop mass murders. But we waste time blaming an object instead of the trigger finger, and the rest of the human attached to it. No matter if the finger pushed the ignition button of a bomb, the button of a ink pen, the steering wheel of a vehicle, or the trigger of a firearm. A firearm, bomb, vehicle, or ink pen signing executive orders by government, all need a human to operate. But we dwell on the object.....


your only allowed so many sunrises... I aim to see every one of them!
Re: No need for semi-automatic rifles? [Re: seniortrap] #7594318
05/30/22 05:45 AM
05/30/22 05:45 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 24,869
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
D

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 24,869
williamsburg ks
How come we don't commit people to state hospitals, insane asylums if you will anymore? When you see a homeless person talking to their self chances are they are talking to voices or entities to them that are real. So what about their right to live on the street? Eat out of trash cans and sleep under bridges? IMO, if they are mentally ill they don't have the capacity to pursue happiness. If we still committed mentally ill people to asylum's these school shooting's would go back to the level they were at in the 60's and 70's when mentally ill people were committed.


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: No need for semi-automatic rifles? [Re: seniortrap] #7594319
05/30/22 05:57 AM
05/30/22 05:57 AM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 7,682
Texas - Michigan
Mark June Offline
trapper
Mark June  Offline
trapper

Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 7,682
Texas - Michigan
^^^^^ Danny, in answer to your question, it was about the same time that God was declared dead in 1984 in Time magazine that these same progressives declared that the "right" and "wrong" tenets that you're speaking about (some people don't have the capacity to know good from bad, right from wrong, and so should be placed where they can be supervised), was cast out.

They threw God, the baby, the bath water, the mental institution (don't judge me!), and much more out in that 1960-1980's hippie era my friend.
And we won't be going back anytime soon.

Now, all are allowed to be whatcha wanna be, do whatcha wanna do.
If the person with mental disease, which is increasing because more powerful drugs, legal and illegal, are increasing which millions of people are taking/using and which can devastate the brain irreversibly... is having issues, society has decided that the humane thing to do is simply let them be. Ignore them.
Compassion to a progressive is ignoring someone and letting them be.

You're calling for a human compassion that will fall on millions of progressive deaf ears.

We got what we asked for Danny.
As a people and as a nation.
In so many ways.

We are freed from authority and free to forge our own identity and free from any guard rails of morality and free from respecting others and what they need or want.
Yah, I'm FREE!
FREEEEE FALLING!

I enjoy Tom Petty.
Spot on.

Blessings,
Mark


Dallas Theological Seminary
https://www.dts.edu
https://www.markjuneslures.com/
Predator Trapping Academy Host



Re: No need for semi-automatic rifles? [Re: Feedinggrounds] #7594327
05/30/22 06:31 AM
05/30/22 06:31 AM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 8,815
Maine, Aroostook
Posco Offline
trapper
Posco  Offline
trapper

Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 8,815
Maine, Aroostook
Originally Posted by Feedinggrounds
Not sure if we stop mass murders. But we waste time blaming an object instead of the trigger finger


What do you do when the person who has their finger on the trigger plans on going out in their own idea of what makes for a blaze of glory? Events are conspiring against us. I have my own opinions as to why.

Re: No need for semi-automatic rifles? [Re: danny clifton] #7594340
05/30/22 07:19 AM
05/30/22 07:19 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,143
Rodney,Ohio
SNIPERB🦝 Offline
trapper
SNIPERB🦝  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,143
Rodney,Ohio
Originally Posted by danny clifton
How come we don't commit people to state hospitals, insane asylums if you will anymore? When you see a homeless person talking to their self chances are they are talking to voices or entities to them that are real. So what about their right to live on the street? Eat out of trash cans and sleep under bridges? IMO, if they are mentally ill they don't have the capacity to pursue happiness. If we still committed mentally ill people to asylum's these school shooting's would go back to the level they were at in the 60's and 70's when mentally ill people were committed.

Where do you draw the line of who gets committed and who doesn't?

Re: No need for semi-automatic rifles? [Re: danny clifton] #7594350
05/30/22 07:33 AM
05/30/22 07:33 AM
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 1,043
MA
F
Flicker Shad Offline
trapper
Flicker Shad  Offline
trapper
F

Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 1,043
MA
Originally Posted by danny clifton
How come we don't commit people to state hospitals, insane asylums if you will anymore? When you see a homeless person talking to their self chances are they are talking to voices or entities to them that are real. So what about their right to live on the street? Eat out of trash cans and sleep under bridges? IMO, if they are mentally ill they don't have the capacity to pursue happiness. If we still committed mentally ill people to asylum's these school shooting's would go back to the level they were at in the 60's and 70's when mentally ill people were committed.

How many of these shooters are doing the things you say? None. Most seem to be younger people still living with their parents

Re: No need for semi-automatic rifles? [Re: seniortrap] #7594354
05/30/22 07:38 AM
05/30/22 07:38 AM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 7,777
Arkansas
J
J Staton Offline
trapper
J Staton  Offline
trapper
J

Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 7,777
Arkansas
If this shooter, or any shooter for that matter, makes a plan for shooting up a school are they clinically insane? Can the irrational mind develop a rational/tactical plan? I think there is more at play than just insanity.


James 1: 19-20
Re: No need for semi-automatic rifles? [Re: seniortrap] #7594378
05/30/22 08:11 AM
05/30/22 08:11 AM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 7,067
West Michigan
G
Getting There Offline
trapper
Getting There  Offline
trapper
G

Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 7,067
West Michigan
I think there is much more to the shooting than just the insane. Just look how our country has change in the past 20 or so years.
Yes, there will always be changes, but look how these changes have change our way of life and the life of our kids. Just to name a couple. Gangs, drugs, how we raise our kids. Home life, war. The list goes on. JMO


To Old
U.S. Army 60-63 SGT.
Re: No need for semi-automatic rifles? [Re: seniortrap] #7594386
05/30/22 08:19 AM
05/30/22 08:19 AM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 7,777
Arkansas
J
J Staton Offline
trapper
J Staton  Offline
trapper
J

Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 7,777
Arkansas
Vengeance and youtube glory is what they seek.


James 1: 19-20
Re: No need for semi-automatic rifles? [Re: seniortrap] #7594392
05/30/22 08:22 AM
05/30/22 08:22 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 24,869
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
D

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 24,869
williamsburg ks
Flicker shad, young people are who were being committed. Tested at school when problems arose. People who were mentally slow were sent to a different school instead of holding back the rest of the class.

Quote
If this shooter, or any shooter for that matter, makes a plan for shooting up a school are they clinically insane?
Yes. Wanting to commit mass murder is definitely a symptom of mental illness.

Look at Ted Bundy. A psychopath. Nuttier than a pet coon. Doesn't mean he was incapable of planning and executing a crime. Doesn't mean he didnt know right from wrong. He had no personal sense of right and wrong but knew what society expected.

Confining the mentally ill won't stop mass murder but it will lower the incidence significantly.

Last edited by danny clifton; 05/30/22 08:23 AM.

Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: No need for semi-automatic rifles? [Re: seniortrap] #7594396
05/30/22 08:26 AM
05/30/22 08:26 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 23,604
Eastern Shore of Maryland
HobbieTrapper Offline
"Chippendale Trapper"
HobbieTrapper  Offline
"Chippendale Trapper"

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 23,604
Eastern Shore of Maryland
Not sure you folks have the timeline on when this stuff started happening correct. We had a kid here back in the 70ís the was preparing mayhem at our school. He had stashed several lockers with sawed off shotguns and pipe bombs. The difference then, somebody said something to the office staff. They took it serious and acted upon that information.


-Goofy-
Re: No need for semi-automatic rifles? [Re: trapdog1] #7594399
05/30/22 08:29 AM
05/30/22 08:29 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 51,476
Minnesota
330-Trapper Offline
trapper
330-Trapper  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 51,476
Minnesota
Originally Posted by trapdog1
Originally Posted by seniortrap
I do try to discuss things of all sorts with him. He saw some nasty action in NAM in 1969-70. He was an forward observer. Directing artillery for Army in the field.

He has an honorable discharge. But as of late his ghosts of past have crept in on him. He's retired and running a lawn service in the summer. It keeps him busy and brings in some additional monies.

He is married for the second time now. Thats about 10years to this one now. He has 2 children all grown and away from home.

He is 72 or there abouts. He graduated with my brother in 1967. There are a lot of similarities between my brother and him.


But my brother has gotten better in the last few years. He was over there in 1969 also. He was in country for 90 days and got hit twice.

Losing his hearing badly and receiving shrapnel from a grenade. He was sent to Japan then stateside. Rotated out after some surgery on his ears.

I will continue to talk with this friend and work on things.


That's all you can do. Like I said earlier, I bet he needs and appreciates your friendship.

I bet he does


NRA and NTA Life Member
www.BackroadsRevised@etsy.com




Re: No need for semi-automatic rifles? [Re: seniortrap] #7594408
05/30/22 08:35 AM
05/30/22 08:35 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 23,604
Eastern Shore of Maryland
HobbieTrapper Offline
"Chippendale Trapper"
HobbieTrapper  Offline
"Chippendale Trapper"

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 23,604
Eastern Shore of Maryland
The inability to suffer humiliation seems to be a common thread with these shooters. Itís normally something learned as a kid losing in competition.


-Goofy-
Re: No need for semi-automatic rifles? [Re: HobbieTrapper] #7594416
05/30/22 08:48 AM
05/30/22 08:48 AM
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 1,043
MA
F
Flicker Shad Offline
trapper
Flicker Shad  Offline
trapper
F

Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 1,043
MA
Originally Posted by HobbieTrapper
Not sure you folks have the timeline on when this stuff started happening correct. We had a kid here back in the 70ís the was preparing mayhem at our school. He had stashed several lockers with sawed off shotguns and pipe bombs. The difference then, somebody said something to the office staff. They took it serious and acted upon that information.

There have always been problems, but the frequency was a lot lower.

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