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Re: Lack of ethics of long range hunting breakdown [Re: Yes sir] #7610049
06/22/22 09:31 AM
06/22/22 09:31 AM
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Diggerman Offline
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Originally Posted by Yes sir
Originally Posted by corky
My opinion is that ethical concerns should be handled privately. I see no good coming from some people's desire to create conflict and air dirty laundry in public. It is usually done by people needing to feel ethically superior to others regardless of the impression it gives to outsiders about our sports.

If one thought long range hunting was unethical how would u propose to handle it privately? I'm not tracking on what you mean privately, if you could clarify I'd appreciate it.

Im going out on a limb here , but, I read it as "mind your own business".

Re: Lack of ethics of long range hunting breakdown [Re: Wolfdog91] #7610058
06/22/22 09:51 AM
06/22/22 09:51 AM
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Posts: 1,336
Saucier, Mississippi Harrison ...
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Sorry to break it to this guy but I personally know Randy Selby and I have one of his rifles and one being built. Randy Selby created and tested the Nosler partition along side P O Ackley. He has I think 4 but I know three cartriges that he has developed. He has been gunsmithing since his teens. When you get your rifle back it has load development and everything you need to use that rifle. He lives in Wapiti Wyoming on a ranch and has an 800 yard range in his back yard which is where he does you load development not a hundred yards.This guy can say what he wants but he is no match for that old man. Mr. Selby speaks from many many years of experience. He is also a life long elk hunter. The case in which the bench rest rifles were being used was in Kentucky. These guys had a bench set up outside the camp with feeders and a pond at one mile. They bragged and bragged about doing it until someone finally let the cat out of the bag that they were wounding 4 deer for every one they killed and the ones they killed were shot several times by multiple shooters. Ballistics will tell you what a bullet is ethically capable of doing to a thin skinned animal. There is a big difference between being able to hit something at long range and ethically dispatch an animal.This guy needs to go to Wapiti Wyoming and look up Mr. Randy Selby and get his feelings hurt when that old gunsmith takes him to school on hunting and shooting. He lost me when he said shooting long range is easy. I have rifles and the training to shoot long range and I hate to break it to him it isn't easy and definitely not something the average person should be doing with an animal out in front of them. To make 500 plus yard shots ethically the planets almost have to be lined up. Animal broad side, standing still, not nervous, wind, humidity, altitude, the rest you have available, long grass that you can't see at that distance. A lot can go wrong taking those shots. I hunt with a custom Selby 30-378 Weatherby and a custom Encore chambered in 358-375 ultra just for reference Both have Nightforce optics.


"Skin that smokewagon and see what happens"
Re: Lack of ethics of long range hunting breakdown [Re: Wolfdog91] #7610060
06/22/22 09:52 AM
06/22/22 09:52 AM
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Marion Kansas
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The more ethical people are the less rules and laws are needed. You can flip flop the words more and less and still have the same idea. Ethics and law are directly connected.

Last edited by Yes sir; 06/22/22 09:55 AM.
Re: Lack of ethics of long range hunting breakdown [Re: Wolfdog91] #7610067
06/22/22 09:58 AM
06/22/22 09:58 AM
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NC - Here there and everywhere
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I killed a deer with a 410 slug at 43 yards this year. Felt pretty long range to me


Gotta live up to the nickname...
Re: Lack of ethics of long range hunting breakdown [Re: Yes sir] #7610068
06/22/22 10:00 AM
06/22/22 10:00 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,022
Three Lakes,WI 71
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Originally Posted by Yes sir
Originally Posted by corky
My opinion is that ethical concerns should be handled privately. I see no good coming from some people's desire to create conflict and air dirty laundry in public. It is usually done by people needing to feel ethically superior to others regardless of the impression it gives to outsiders about our sports.

If one thought long range hunting was unethical how would u propose to handle it privately? I'm not tracking on what you mean privately, if you could clarify I'd appreciate it.

If you know of someone conducting long range hunting in an unethical manner express your opinion to them personally. If someone feels a need to make or post a video for public consumption just because they don't like something then I think they fall into the same category as hound hunters vs trappers, catch and release vs eat a meal, bear baiters vs dogs, cross bow vs compound vs traditional etc...., all designed to divide us rather than unify. All it does is provide ammo to uninformed antis while stroking the ego of the poster claiming moral superiority. I have taken ethical long range shots but I get far more satisfaction from getting as close as possible. To each his own. Diggerman got the gist of it.

Re: Lack of ethics of long range hunting breakdown [Re: Wolfdog91] #7610074
06/22/22 10:11 AM
06/22/22 10:11 AM
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Posts: 7,124
Marion Kansas
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Corky when it comes to ego stroking I find the guys posting long range hunting shots more on the ego side of things than guys calling for more ethics in the hunting side of things. And as far as addressing ethical practices, the perception within the culture( which means taking it to the masses withen the sport)has way more bearing than one on one debates if that makes sense.

Re: Lack of ethics of long range hunting breakdown [Re: Dirty D] #7610075
06/22/22 10:12 AM
06/22/22 10:12 AM
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Indiana
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Originally Posted by Dirty D
Originally Posted by danny clifton
Why worry about how somebody else hunts?


Because what one does reflects on all of us.

Your OK with taking bad shots and wounding animals?

If we don't Police ourselves than we give others more reasons to.

I know that are those that want to police us out of existence but there are also those that sit on the fence. Lets not push the fence sitters over to the opposite side. Lets get them on our side.

I will argue just as many or more animals are wounded by people that are "big" hunters that go hunting with a boar sighted gun they have not shot, or hiting a paper Plate at 25 yards should put me good at 100, and guys that don't shot more than 5 shots a year at under 100 yards than long range guys that practice.

Now those same type jack wagons can buy a long range gun and do the same stupid crap. That does not mean all long rang guys are unethical any more than all bow hunters are because Bubba shot 10 deer with his bow and didn't find one so bow hunting must be bad right.

It's the same crap argument the gun control people use. Omg someone did some bad better bsn or make something illiegal or supper mere illegal if it was allready illegal to begin with.

Re: Lack of ethics of long range hunting breakdown [Re: danny clifton] #7610084
06/22/22 10:26 AM
06/22/22 10:26 AM
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Posts: 8,390
East of the Mason-Dixon Line
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Originally Posted by danny clifton
Why worry about how somebody else hunts? Unless the guy is launching bullets toward a house or livestock or something it aint any of your business. Got enough non hunters out there trying to impose their will on us. No need to help them do it. Without hunting we lose the 2nd. Just not that many competition shooters out there. Most gun owners hunt.


Why would we want to help the non-hunters with their cause by being unethical. Now, I don't agree with shooting game at long distances, I believe it is unethical and won't do it, too much can happen the animal moves or you move and you wound the animal and not kill it quickly. I have my own personal maximum distances that I will shoot based on method of take being used and the game pursued as the situation allows.

But, the person who practices with their firearm at those ranges and feels comfortable doing it, that is their ethical dilemma. Ethics are a personal choice, they can make that choice on their own.

The 2nd has nothing to do with hunting, if hunting was gone it wouldn't matter. Heck, we have hunting and they are trying to take away the 2nd.

I did a quick search and annually 11.5 million people hunt, there are approximately 20 million people who participate in target shooting, maybe not competitively, but it is target shooting. There is some overlap of hunters and target shooters. But, target shooting is growing in size and a lot of money that goes into conservation from the PR act funds comes from target and competition shooters that have no interest in hunting at all. Most gun owners don't hunt. There are about 81.4 million gun owners in the united states, while only 11.5 million are hunters. That isn't most. that's about 14 percent or so of gun owners are hunters. And trappers make up far less than that.


You don't rise to the occasion, you fall to the level of your training.

Semper Paratus
Re: Lack of ethics of long range hunting breakdown [Re: Wolfdog91] #7610085
06/22/22 10:28 AM
06/22/22 10:28 AM
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Marion Kansas
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Providence no one said anything about making anything illegal did they. The discussion is about ethics. You are miss directing the discussion. The discussion is about uncontrollable, unpredictable situations and conditions than can't be planned for affecting the ethics of long range shots in hunting situations.

Re: Lack of ethics of long range hunting breakdown [Re: Yes sir] #7610090
06/22/22 10:34 AM
06/22/22 10:34 AM
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Indiana
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Originally Posted by Yes sir
Providence no one said anything about making anything illegal did they. The discussion is about ethics. You are miss directing the discussion. The discussion is about uncontrollable, unpredictable situations and conditions than can't be planned for affecting the ethics of long range shots in hunting situations.


Maybe I'm just not native and know when this type of talk come up people tent to start talking g about banning or restrictions very soon after. Most people against have never even shot anything at 400 yards targets or otherwise just like most anti gunners have never shot a gun an believe a 9mm will blow your lungs right out of your body.. Carry on I will step back out.

Re: Lack of ethics of long range hunting breakdown [Re: Wolfdog91] #7610114
06/22/22 11:15 AM
06/22/22 11:15 AM
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SW Georgia
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Sorta the same with patterning a shotgun at 40 or even 50 yards for a turkey. Don’t think I took a shot over 25-27yds this year. But I know if he doesn’t come any closer that my set up is lethal.

My thoughts on long range hunting is it creates the opportunity for more wounded and lost game. Just because I can hit a gong at 500 or even 700 yards doesn’t mean I should take a shot at an animal that far. A whole lot can happen from exit to impact at that distance. But, that’s not on me.

Re: Lack of ethics of long range hunting breakdown [Re: Wolfdog91] #7610133
06/22/22 11:45 AM
06/22/22 11:45 AM
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Marion Kansas
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I believe most of us on here have similar definitions of what an ethical shot is. Like say being able to hit the desired target 8 out of 10 times in the given situation. But I think the disconnect comes between what one can do at a range, sometimes after some practice shots to get gun and shooter tuned in on a target compared to an animal in a hunting situation. Most don't take in the different variables in the different situations. If you take multiple shots to kill the animal it wasn't a good shot. I've seen plenty of long range shots miss the first time or 2 but then make a good hit and think that was good shooting because they finally accomplished their goal. If you can consistently hit your target at a given range in a hunting situation I have zero problem with one taking that shot. I've watched too many who didn't do that but if called out on it they and a bunch of followers will defend it.

I will add in the excitement of a hunt I have taken shots in retrospect that I maybe shouldn't have but I try to be humble enough to admit to the error.

Last edited by Yes sir; 06/22/22 11:56 AM.
Re: Lack of ethics of long range hunting breakdown [Re: Wolfdog91] #7610135
06/22/22 11:47 AM
06/22/22 11:47 AM
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Heard a guy say this once and after thinking about it, he was spot on.....

He said, there are way more unethical shots taken that are under 100yds in a year than are taken over 100 in a year.


Re: Lack of ethics of long range hunting breakdown [Re: danny clifton] #7610141
06/22/22 11:53 AM
06/22/22 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by danny clifton
Why worry about how somebody else hunts? Unless the guy is launching bullets toward a house or livestock or something it aint any of your business. Got enough non hunters out there trying to impose their will on us. No need to help them do it. Without hunting we lose the 2nd. Just not that many competition shooters out there. Most gun owners hunt.


Wounded bears can become problem bears for other people. Bears habituated to human feeding ( baiting ) can become problem bears for other people. I'm other people.


Who is John Galt?
Re: Lack of ethics of long range hunting breakdown [Re: hippie] #7610145
06/22/22 11:58 AM
06/22/22 11:58 AM
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Marion Kansas
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Originally Posted by hippie
Heard a guy say this once and after thinking about it, he was spot on.....

He said, there are way more unethical shots taken that are under 100yds in a year than are taken over 100 in a year.


A wouldn't argue but nothing wrong with discussing the error of both right?

Re: Lack of ethics of long range hunting breakdown [Re: Wolfdog91] #7610146
06/22/22 11:59 AM
06/22/22 11:59 AM
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Spray lead.


Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: Lack of ethics of long range hunting breakdown [Re: Yes sir] #7610150
06/22/22 12:06 PM
06/22/22 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Yes sir
Originally Posted by hippie
Heard a guy say this once and after thinking about it, he was spot on.....

He said, there are way more unethical shots taken that are under 100yds in a year than are taken over 100 in a year.


A wouldn't argue but nothing wrong with discussing the error of both right?


Nope, I agree but it's always one sided against the long range guys. This argument is no different than hound hunters against trappers, fly fishermen against bait fishermen and so on.
Its divisive of our ranks and shouldn't get the dialog it does.

Re: Lack of ethics of long range hunting breakdown [Re: Wolfdog91] #7610151
06/22/22 12:07 PM
06/22/22 12:07 PM
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Missouri
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After hearing all this talk of long range hunting, I had a chance last year to check out the possibilities. There is a 40 acre pasture across the road from me that had cattle grazing on it. Was standing in my shop door with rifle in hand.......100 yards from first fence and 540 yards from the back fence of that 40. Cattle grazing 1/4 mile away. So with scope cranked up to 9X, attempted to put the crosshairs on a cow that was grazing along.........and concluded most likely outcome would be a miss or gut shot cow. For starters, could hold on a spot on the cow an area about the size of 5 gallon bucket. And to even get to that, you would either have to have a dope sheet, know the distance, click in the windage and elevation adjustments (accounting for wind which is significant).....or do all that with Kentucky windage.

Concluded I had no business taking such a shot. About half that would be my limit assuming the game was not moving. That is to assure a good shot with high probability of a clean kill.

I have relatives who tend to agree with that concept, but are horrible shots just the same. They have wounded and lost more animals than they have harvested. If not for the fact they are relatives.........and have as much ownership rights to land as I do.......they would never set foot on the place again. If you are going to hunt them, you owe it to the animal to do it right.

Re: Lack of ethics of long range hunting breakdown [Re: Wolfdog91] #7610221
06/22/22 02:26 PM
06/22/22 02:26 PM
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While doing research on various bullets I'll get search results to a lot of hunting forums... I can't count how many posts I've seen where someone asks how a certain match bullet will work on elk at 1000 yards.

• So they're taking shots at a grand or further at big game.

• They're using match bullets to do it even though Hornady, Sierra, etc... plainly state that match bullets are not recommended for hunting due to the nature of their construction.

I'll never picket or sign a petition to put a stop to it... But I'll darn sure never take that chance unless it's a life/death scenario. Even with a projectile designed for game at long range, it just strikes me as irresponsible to attempt a 1000 or 1200 yard shot on an animal.

Just my opinion.

Mike


One man with a gun may control 100 others who have none.

Vladimir Lenin
Re: Lack of ethics of long range hunting breakdown [Re: Wolfdog91] #7610238
06/22/22 02:49 PM
06/22/22 02:49 PM
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Amite county Mississippi
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.....sooo....anyone happen to watch these videos orrrrr...


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