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Pennsylvania might re-introduce the Marten #7620029
07/05/22 04:45 PM
07/05/22 04:45 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,297
Central Pennsylvania
Nittany Lion Offline OP
Don't call me Mister, Mister
Nittany Lion  Offline OP
Don't call me Mister, Mister

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,297
Central Pennsylvania


I got myself a seniors' GPS.
Not only does it tell me how to get to my destination,
it tells me why I wanted to go there.
Re: Pennsylvania might re-introduce the Marten [Re: Nittany Lion] #7620031
07/05/22 04:47 PM
07/05/22 04:47 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 33,547
McGrath, AK
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white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
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McGrath, AK
Link doesn't work


Mean As Nails
Re: Pennsylvania might re-introduce the Marten [Re: Nittany Lion] #7620032
07/05/22 04:48 PM
07/05/22 04:48 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,297
Central Pennsylvania
Nittany Lion Offline OP
Don't call me Mister, Mister
Nittany Lion  Offline OP
Don't call me Mister, Mister

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,297
Central Pennsylvania
Sorry, I can't make the link work so I copied and pasted the article, here goes.

The return of the American marten, a larger relative of the weasel and mink, will be up for consideration by the Pennsylvania Board of Game Commissioners when it meets this weekend at the agency’s Harrisburg headquarters.

The marten, a tree-climbing predator about 24 to 30 inches long, including the tail, was extirpated from Pennsylvania in the early 1900s by deforestation and unregulated harvest.

While the marten preys heavily on members of the squirrel family, like chipmunks and red squirrels, it also eats a wide range of insects, fruits and berries in season.


As prescribed in the Commission’s Strategic Plan 2020-2023, the Bureau of Wildlife Management did an assessment of the feasibility of reintroducing the native species to Pennsylvania and concluded that the marten “would likely be successful and would be an appropriate next step in the commission’s history of species restoration.”


Previous reintroductions with species like the bald eagle and the fisher have been widely acknowledged successes for the commission.

The Bureau of Wildlife Management is requesting that commissioners approve the concept of reintroducing American marten to Pennsylvania and authorize staff develop a reintroduction and management plan.

Also on the agenda for the upcoming commissioner meeting will be creation of a bobwhite quail recovery area around Letterkenny Army Depot in Franklin County to protect birds released as part of the recovery effort from harvest by hunters and genetic contamination from any quail not released as part of the effort.


Commissioners also will consider the agency’s definition of “private land” to allow for Deer Management Assistance Program permits to be available to more properties across the state.

Mystery creature attacks Pennsylvania trail camera. We think we know what it was
The meeting begins at 1 p.m. Friday with commissioners hearing reports from staff.

It will resume at 8:30 a.m. Saturday with public comment, which will be heard on first-to-register, first-to-speak basis. Registration to speak begins when doors to the Harrisburg headquarters open at 7:45 a.m.


The agenda for the meeting is available at the Pennsylvania Game Commission website. Under “About Us,” on the right side of the homepage, select “Events & Board Meetings,” then click the “July 9, 2022 Draft Agenda” link.


The meeting is scheduled to be live-streamed Friday and again on Saturday, following the conclusion of public comments. The livestream can be viewed on the agency’s YouTube channel.


I got myself a seniors' GPS.
Not only does it tell me how to get to my destination,
it tells me why I wanted to go there.
Re: Pennsylvania might re-introduce the Marten [Re: Nittany Lion] #7620033
07/05/22 04:52 PM
07/05/22 04:52 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 33,547
McGrath, AK
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white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
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Posts: 33,547
McGrath, AK
Thanks ! It would be interesting to know the current species varieties in the are they might use for marten


Mean As Nails
Re: Pennsylvania might re-introduce the Marten [Re: Nittany Lion] #7620038
07/05/22 04:59 PM
07/05/22 04:59 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,195
SEPA
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Lugnut Offline
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What do they think is so successful about the reintroductions of the fisher and bald eagle? If you consider a drastic reduction in small game a huge success then…yeah.

I really don’t think we need another predator of small game reintroduced into this state.


Eh...wot?

Re: Pennsylvania might re-introduce the Marten [Re: Nittany Lion] #7620043
07/05/22 05:00 PM
07/05/22 05:00 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,195
SEPA
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Lugnut Offline
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There was a reason, good reasons, why our forefathers eliminated the competition for food.


Eh...wot?

Re: Pennsylvania might re-introduce the Marten [Re: Nittany Lion] #7620096
07/05/22 06:41 PM
07/05/22 06:41 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
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Three Lakes,WI 71
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corky Offline
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They have had very limited success with Marten in WI. There is a marten restoration zone within a few miles of me. It seems that the fishers outcompete them for available food and then eat the martens!

Re: Pennsylvania might re-introduce the Marten [Re: Nittany Lion] #7620102
07/05/22 06:53 PM
07/05/22 06:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
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SW PA
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white marlin Offline
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not sure why trappers would oppose reintroduction of another furbearer.

none of the other reintroductions (fisher, otter) dramatically affected trapping regulations for other species.



Re: Pennsylvania might re-introduce the Marten [Re: Nittany Lion] #7620117
07/05/22 07:05 PM
07/05/22 07:05 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,195
SEPA
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Lugnut Offline
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Some of us trappers are hunters too white marlin.

I’d gladly trade my one-fisher-a-year tag for all the turkeys that have been consumed by them over the decades since their re-introduction.


Eh...wot?

Re: Pennsylvania might re-introduce the Marten [Re: Nittany Lion] #7620126
07/05/22 07:15 PM
07/05/22 07:15 PM
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james bay frontierOnt.
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Boco Offline
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james bay frontierOnt.
I dont buy that.
South eastern Ontario is polluted with both Turkey and Fisher.
Turkey were re introduced and fisher re established themselves.

Coon probably ate all the eggs.


Last edited by Boco; 07/05/22 07:17 PM.

Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: Pennsylvania might re-introduce the Marten [Re: white marlin] #7620133
07/05/22 07:25 PM
07/05/22 07:25 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,962
Green Bay, Wisconsin
tlguy Offline
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Originally Posted by white marlin
not sure why trappers would oppose reintroduction of another furbearer.

none of the other reintroductions (fisher, otter) dramatically affected trapping regulations for other species.


I don't trap in the marten restoration areas in northern Wisconsin, so I'm not 100% certain what the regulations are now, but they used to severely limit the types of traps allowed on dry land, basically either cage traps or DPs. So yes, marten re-introduction could dramatically affect trapping regulations in an area.

Re: Pennsylvania might re-introduce the Marten [Re: Nittany Lion] #7620136
07/05/22 07:25 PM
07/05/22 07:25 PM
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PA
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marathonman Offline
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I agree with you Boco. Maine has a high turkey population and a good supply of fisher. Wet spring/summers have been hard on our turkeys as some bird flu.

Re: Pennsylvania might re-introduce the Marten [Re: white marlin] #7620141
07/05/22 07:31 PM
07/05/22 07:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2022
Posts: 46
Wisconsin
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Pierce Offline
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Wisconsin
Originally Posted by corky
They have had very limited success with Marten in WI. There is a marten restoration zone within a few miles of me. It seems that the fishers outcompete them for available food and then eat the martens!


If I'm not mistaken the population is "stable" in Ashland County, but I don't think it's increased in the state as a whole for 30 years.
I saw a few tracks 20 years ago in Iron County, but from what I've heard they never increased either. And at the time a biologist told me those moved there on their own not part of the reintroduction.
I've only ever caught a fleeting glimpse of two, and one I ain't even 100% sure about.

Originally Posted by white marlin
not sure why trappers would oppose reintroduction of another furbearer.

none of the other reintroductions (fisher, otter) dramatically affected trapping regulations for other species.


I have no idea what PA will do, but here in WI Marten restoration areas have additional limitations placed on trapping, I don't know when the last open season was, but they've been on the endangered list for at least 50 years here. The Vole population as fallen off here in recent decades, so they have lost their primary prey so I don't see a dramatic change happening any time soon, if ever.
Not to say that it will go the same way in PA, or that they shouldn't be reintroduced. But I probably wouldn't hold my breath waiting for a season on them.

Re: Pennsylvania might re-introduce the Marten [Re: tlguy] #7620153
07/05/22 07:52 PM
07/05/22 07:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,313
SW PA
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white marlin Offline
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Originally Posted by tlguy
Originally Posted by white marlin
not sure why trappers would oppose reintroduction of another furbearer.

none of the other reintroductions (fisher, otter) dramatically affected trapping regulations for other species.


I don't trap in the marten restoration areas in northern Wisconsin, so I'm not 100% certain what the regulations are now, but they used to severely limit the types of traps allowed on dry land, basically either cage traps or DPs. So yes, marten re-introduction could dramatically affect trapping regulations in an area.


perhaps where you are.

That hasn't happened in PA. there were some minor beaver changes in the new otter season areas, but nothing onerous. and those didn't kick in until a season was established.



Re: Pennsylvania might re-introduce the Marten [Re: Lugnut] #7620158
07/05/22 07:55 PM
07/05/22 07:55 PM
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SW PA
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white marlin Offline
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Originally Posted by Lugnut
Some of us trappers are hunters too white marlin.

I’d gladly trade my one-fisher-a-year tag for all the turkeys that have been consumed by them over the decades since their re-introduction.


PGC has done fisher stomach content studies, and turkeys were not very prevalent. in fact, they found more fisher remains in fisher stomachs than turkey remains.



Re: Pennsylvania might re-introduce the Marten [Re: white marlin] #7620213
07/05/22 08:56 PM
07/05/22 08:56 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
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SEPA
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Lugnut Offline
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Originally Posted by Boco
I dont buy that.
South eastern Ontario is polluted with both Turkey and Fisher.
Turkey were re introduced and fisher re established themselves.

Coon probably ate all the eggs.



Originally Posted by white marlin
Originally Posted by Lugnut
Some of us trappers are hunters too white marlin.

I’d gladly trade my one-fisher-a-year tag for all the turkeys that have been consumed by them over the decades since their re-introduction.


PGC has done fisher stomach content studies, and turkeys were not very prevalent. in fact, they found more fisher remains in fisher stomachs than turkey remains.


I am aware of the study white marlin.

The PGC and university biologists would agree with you Boco. As white marlin mentioned, a fisher diet study was conducted by biologists from the Indiana University of Pennsylvania and the Pennsylvania Game Commission between 2002 and 2014. They studied the stomach contents of 91 fisher and found zero trace of turkeys.

I still don't buy it. For one thing, nearly all the fisher were supplied by trappers in the fall/winter after poults were grown and better able to defend themselves. I don't think fisher are a huge predator of turkey but I think they certainly take their share. Our turkey population has been in decline for about ten years. Same with the turkey population nationwide according to articles I have read. Most blame it on avian flu or west Nile virus. Regardless of the reasons, I don't see the need for extra predation on them. The trade off of the opportunity to catch a single fisher per year (PA regs) isn't worth it to me.

Here is a link to an article on the study:

PA Fisher Stomach Content Survey

Last edited by Lugnut; 07/05/22 09:06 PM. Reason: Link wasn't working.

Eh...wot?

Re: Pennsylvania might re-introduce the Marten [Re: Nittany Lion] #7620215
07/05/22 08:57 PM
07/05/22 08:57 PM
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Lugnut Offline
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The cannibalism finding was interesting.


Eh...wot?

Re: Pennsylvania might re-introduce the Marten [Re: Nittany Lion] #7620221
07/05/22 09:02 PM
07/05/22 09:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,313
SW PA
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white marlin Offline
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SW PA
I love ya, man...but if you won't take hard data to heart, I don't know what to say.

it is what it is.



Re: Pennsylvania might re-introduce the Marten [Re: Lugnut] #7620249
07/05/22 09:31 PM
07/05/22 09:31 PM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,318
east central WI
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Dirty D Offline
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east central WI
Originally Posted by Lugnut
There was a reason, good reasons, why our forefathers eliminated the competition for food.


yea, 150-250 years ago wild game was a staple food source. Not today.
Pretty hard to survive on wild game alone now days in the lower 48.
In fact I'd bet if you add up the time and money you invest in wild game you'd be further ahead raising your own stock and growing a garden.

So yea, our forefathers didn't like the competition and maybe justifiably so.
Not so today.

In a healthy ecosystem a predator animal doesn't eliminate a prey animal, its suicide for a species to do so.

The biggest factor in reduction of animals is habitat, predators are less important.

If you want more rabbits make brush piles, clear trees to make brushy areas, plant bushes and forbs that rabbits need for year round food.
Don't do any of this and blame the lack of rabbits on hawks and owls and your a fool.

Re: Pennsylvania might re-introduce the Marten [Re: Nittany Lion] #7620278
07/05/22 09:55 PM
07/05/22 09:55 PM
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SW Pa
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wr otis Offline
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You think coyotes and hawks set a quota on how many rabbits they're each going to eat.

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