Re: Economic Collapse
[Re: Boco]
#7626119
07/14/22 12:03 AM
07/14/22 12:03 AM
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 867 Alaska/Washington
Dragger
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 867
Alaska/Washington
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Correct-Trump will blow enough gas out his arse to run the world for millennia,lol You blow more than Trump and Canada still has always had higher fuel prices.. Empty wind I guess???
Give an illegal alien a fish and he eats for a day. Deport him and you never have to feed him ever again!
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Re: Economic Collapse
[Re: Steven 49er]
#7626349
07/14/22 11:12 AM
07/14/22 11:12 AM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,169 McGrath, AK
white17
"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
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"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,169
McGrath, AK
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Ken, I'm gotta ask but not sure how to phrase it. If an economy is so dependant on debt, is it possible to not be a service and consumer driven one?
Does that make sense?
I do agree with what you are saying, I don't know if it's possible.
Also cause I'm bored let's do some math. Say a feller is down 650k. The SP 500(the benchmark indices) set an all-time high of approximately 4,800 today it closed at 3801, that is a 21 percent pullback from it's ATH. to lose 650k thay means the person had about 3.1 million, let's say the person lost 30 percent, he still has two million. A guy can retire comfortably with 2to3 million dollars in a 401k
I've never thought much about that but.........even after 1913 we still were in a very productive stage of our development. Still in the industrial revolution to some degree...so we did have an economy that produced consumer goods even with a debt based system. But I can sort of see where you're coming from. Even "goods based" economies need consumers to consume and service industries to provide things like accounting, transport, marketing etc. Where I think debt has had a big impact is in the arena of taxation. Before capital gains taxes evolved it was much easier to build capital. Essentially, once taxation began...other than tariffs..... a business was in competition with government.. But what isn't always evident is that when government borrows, it makes it harder and more expensive for business to borrow because they are competing for the same funding The more money that government borrows, the more they have to confiscate from business to service that debt. We know that. But what isn't always evident is that when government borrows, it makes it harder and more expensive for business to borrow because they are competing for the same funding that government wants. The usual result is that the cost of borrowing goes up or becomes unavailable to business. Government has no such restrictions because they have the power to tax. Not sure I am even addressing what you are asking. Yeah I think a guy could get by on 2 million depending on his age, where he lives, his health, and his ability to stay invested to generate income. AND.....that the rules aren't changed by government in the middle of the game
Mean As Nails
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Re: Economic Collapse
[Re: Chancey]
#7626360
07/14/22 11:28 AM
07/14/22 11:28 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,697 MN, Land of 10,000 Lakes
Trapper7
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,697
MN, Land of 10,000 Lakes
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Saw on NewsMax just this morning his press secretary saying the economy is the best it's ever been. Really? With inflation at 9.1%? She added this doesn't even take into account the lower gas prices at the pump.
BTW, for the non-Trumpers: when he left office inflation was at 1.4%
We are told not to judge all Muslims by the actions of a few lunatics, but are told to judge all gunowners by the actions of a few.
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Re: Economic Collapse
[Re: Flicker Shad]
#7626414
07/14/22 12:35 PM
07/14/22 12:35 PM
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 13,138 Ky
jbyrd63
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trapper
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 13,138
Ky
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Guy I fish with could have retired in Jan . I told him he better cut and run . Get his 401 k ,at least roll it over into something guaranteed. Nope he said he would loose too much money if he put it in roth at set rate. WEEELLL he will have to work until he is 89 IF THEN to recover the 650,000 he has lost since Jan. I warned him !!! All the writing was on the wall. In my 401 I can move money to a stable cash fund. No roll over, no loss, but no real gains either. He can probably do the same. Yes and go to work everyday to be reminded what he could of had !!!You missed my point wasn't that he couldn't protect what he still has !! It's that he could have gotten out with 650,000 more
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Re: Economic Collapse
[Re: jbyrd63]
#7626477
07/14/22 01:47 PM
07/14/22 01:47 PM
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Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 5,878 perry co.Pa
wetdog
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trapper
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 5,878
perry co.Pa
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Why thank you . Proof shows up everyday LOL !!!! Your kind of thinking shows up every morning I pull the handle and whoosh, it's gone. Lol Lol Lol
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Re: Economic Collapse
[Re: Chancey]
#7626661
07/14/22 05:19 PM
07/14/22 05:19 PM
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,655 Central Texas
Chancey
OP
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OP
trapper
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,655
Central Texas
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Well looks like Saudi Arabia is going to join BRICS. Biden better hope he's got his talking points down when he visits there this week.
Last edited by Chancey; 07/14/22 05:24 PM.
Resident Conspiracy Theorist Accused Moron, Nazi, Low IQ, and Putin Fan Boy
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Re: Economic Collapse
[Re: Boco]
#7626682
07/14/22 06:04 PM
07/14/22 06:04 PM
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,655 Central Texas
Chancey
OP
trapper
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OP
trapper
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,655
Central Texas
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The birth of the Petroyuan. I'm glad I have a big garden, some cows and chickens, and really good neighbors. Silver is down again today, be good to have some on hand when the lights go out. I can't imagine what will happen if the petrodollar is done away with for the people in this country not self-reliant. This government will start a war before that, but this time it may not do any good IMO.
Resident Conspiracy Theorist Accused Moron, Nazi, Low IQ, and Putin Fan Boy
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Re: Economic Collapse
[Re: Chancey]
#7626786
07/14/22 07:56 PM
07/14/22 07:56 PM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 10,474 mn north of blakely
Steven 49er
trapper
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trapper
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 10,474
mn north of blakely
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This started before Trump bit he helped it along quite a bit.
If anyone remembers he was PO'd when the FED raised rates and thought they should be cut to negative territory. Said it would be a good thing.
"Inflation is always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon". Milton Friedman.
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Re: Economic Collapse
[Re: white17]
#7626937
07/14/22 11:32 PM
07/14/22 11:32 PM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 10,474 mn north of blakely
Steven 49er
trapper
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trapper
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 10,474
mn north of blakely
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I've never thought much about that but.........even after 1913 we still were in a very productive stage of our development. Still in the industrial revolution to some degree...so we did have an economy that produced consumer goods even with a debt based system.
We have only been on a true debt-based system since 1971. If we were still on gold standard, at least for foreign trade things would look much different.
Not sure I am even addressing what you are asking.
Yeah I think a guy could get by on 2 million depending on his age, where he lives, his health, and his ability to stay invested to generate income. AND.....that the rules aren't changed by government in the middle of the game
I am not even sure what I am asking lol, just trying to stir conversation. My gut tells me that the true measure of the wealth of a nation is how it uses its natural resources and labor to create real tangible lasting things. I think a fiat system requires and promotes high consumerism, large social spending and an inordinate amount of military spending. It blows my mind that the supposed party of peace IE the Democrats approved a budget with record military spending. Oh, wait, no it doesn't because they have become a party of war. My comment of retiring on a couple of million was meant for someone else. All things being equal a couple million at 65 in a retirement account would be adequate if invested in a "safe" account. 4 percent draw coupled with social security, personal savings and a spouse would be more than adequate. Of course, that means all things being equal.
"Inflation is always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon". Milton Friedman.
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Re: Economic Collapse
[Re: Steven 49er]
#7626959
07/15/22 12:55 AM
07/15/22 12:55 AM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 16,585 Oakland, MS
yotetrapper30
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trapper
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 16,585
Oakland, MS
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I've never thought much about that but.........even after 1913 we still were in a very productive stage of our development. Still in the industrial revolution to some degree...so we did have an economy that produced consumer goods even with a debt based system.
We have only been on a true debt-based system since 1971. If we were still on gold standard, at least for foreign trade things would look much different.
Not sure I am even addressing what you are asking.
Yeah I think a guy could get by on 2 million depending on his age, where he lives, his health, and his ability to stay invested to generate income. AND.....that the rules aren't changed by government in the middle of the game
I am not even sure what I am asking lol, just trying to stir conversation. My gut tells me that the true measure of the wealth of a nation is how it uses its natural resources and labor to create real tangible lasting things. I think a fiat system requires and promotes high consumerism, large social spending and an inordinate amount of military spending. It blows my mind that the supposed party of peace IE the Democrats approved a budget with record military spending. Oh, wait, no it doesn't because they have become a party of war. My comment of retiring on a couple of million was meant for someone else. All things being equal a couple million at 65 in a retirement account would be adequate if invested in a "safe" account. 4 percent draw coupled with social security, personal savings and a spouse would be more than adequate. Of course, that means all things being equal. I think we need a 20 page thread of you and white just talking amongst yourselves about this stuff, lol.
~~Proud Ultra MAGA~~
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Re: Economic Collapse
[Re: Steven 49er]
#7627177
07/15/22 11:21 AM
07/15/22 11:21 AM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,169 McGrath, AK
white17
"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
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"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,169
McGrath, AK
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I am not even sure what I am asking lol, just trying to stir conversation. My gut tells me that the true measure of the wealth of a nation is how it uses its natural resources and labor to create real tangible lasting things. I think a fiat system requires and promotes high consumerism, large social spending and an inordinate amount of military spending. It blows my mind that the supposed party of peace IE the Democrats approved a budget with record military spending. Oh, wait, no it doesn't because they have become a party of war.
Yes. I think Bryce addressed that pretty well above here. There is really no NEW wealth added to the economy unless we are actually producing something that didn't exist before. Activities like logging, mining, building planes and machine tools etc. actually add wealth. Service types of activities only move dollars from one pocket to another. Nothing is created. Of course the bigger problem IMO is that for every economic transaction that takes place, government, at some level, takes a bite while producing absolutely nothing. An absolute Ponzi scheme.
Mean As Nails
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Re: Economic Collapse
[Re: Chancey]
#7627203
07/15/22 11:36 AM
07/15/22 11:36 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 21,716 Sandhills Nebraska
Gary Benson
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 21,716
Sandhills Nebraska
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Gubmint needs more every year so they just add another tax. Isn't that easy for the citizen.
Life ain't supposed to be easy.
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