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Yep the Express models in the 870 were the ones that got cheap.and I should have stated that ...I think the 870 Wingmaster is a different model anyway?
Same model...The 870 Express has a cheaper wood, fit and finish, but the internals are the same...You can use polishing compound, or after much use they become just as slick as the Wingmaster.
I view the 870 as the AK- 47 of shotguns, dual action bars, steel receiver, and great design makes them flawlessly dependable.
In a semi-auto, The Benelli M-1 Super 90 inertia driven spring recoil action is the AK-47 of semi-auto shotguns, IMO...Police Departments love both the 870 and M-1 Super 90 for very good reasons.
I'd have to say the Rem. 870 for overall, but I have a LeFever Nitro Special double that took a beating by my Grandfather, Father and myself, shooting truckloads of game with it and never a glitch. Awesome gun.
The good old 870, name another gun you can use as a paddle to get to your duck hole, shoot a limit, and paddle back out again. Then without question, grab it from behind the seat and shoot some roosters a couple weeks later. They just plain work. Not pretty, just functional and reliable!
Mossberg Model 500 Voted in the top 20 of shotguns a well priced working mans gun reliable affordable and the parts interchange own 5 of them.
That would be a contender however the safeties are prone to breaking right through the screw hole. When that happens the ball and detent spring are typically lost too. Someone does/did make an aluminum replacement for them.
Mossberg Model 500 Voted in the top 20 of shotguns a well priced working mans gun reliable affordable and the parts interchange own 5 of them.
That would be a contender however the safeties are prone to breaking right through the screw hole. When that happens the ball and detent spring are typically lost too. Someone does/did make an aluminum replacement for them.
Never liked that safety location either. Hard to get used to after shooting a Remington for most of my life. A case can certainly be made for the Ithica 37. However, for me the best shotgun wouldn't have a plastic stock or just one barrel.
What I do like about the 500 safety is you can easily see its location when a kid is carrying it or its sitting in a blind. Also nice to have as a spare because the safety is ambidextrous. I have heard a lot about the safety breaking but it has never happened to me. I did have one of the old metal ones freeze up on me when packed with snow once.
As far as best shotgun ever made??? I could never pick one. Old 870s and 500s, 1100, Mod 12, A-5 (even though I cant hit with them) all have special places in my heart.
Thank you Strut for your wisdom in this world of ignorance. First, if the shotgun is plastic, synthetic or any of that other nonsense it’s not even up for consideration. Second, most sold does not equal greatness. Third, if it’s under 30 yrs old we can’t even discuss. I own and enjoy shooting all the above, calm down. However- The 21 is greatness incarnate. American made, beautiful, tuff as nails and a SxS. Others up for debate include Parkers, Foxes, Lefevers and LC’s. I’ll grant the Win model 12, Browning A5 and it’s twin Remington model 11 also have a leg to stand on. The Browning BSS is in there as well. Not enough room to discuss the British makes. Thanks for the pic of a classic where it belongs-on the hunt.
I've never owned a 21 but I have owned a Parker GHE 20 gauge, a couple A.H. Fox Sterlingworth's, an L.C. Smith or two and a couple Ithaca's. Those were all great American shotguns. The finest my meager means have been able to afford was a WJ Jeffery in 28 gauge. A fine British double makes an American made shotgun feel like a club. There's just no comparison.
Thanks for the kind words, fellers !!
Of my two Model 21's, my favorite to hunt with is the 16 gauge. I picked the 12 as "best" due to the wide range of loads available.
Here's a link if you want to learn a little about what a Model 21 really is:
Here's the excerpt from the above link that explains what sets the Winchester Model 21 apart from the rest:
"The Model 21 represents the pinnacle of American shotgun design, and it is built of the finest steel ever used in a double gun. Unlike other double guns, whose frames were made from case hardened steel, Model 21 frames were machined from a heat-treated cro-moly steel forging. This is why they have a blue finish instead of a color case finish. Model 21 frames are approximately twice as strong as a similar case-hardened frame. The frame is also comparatively long, which contributes to the overall strength of the gun by increasing the leverage of the underbolt that holds the barrels to the action.
The Model 21 uses special chopper-lump type barrels made from heat-treated chrome molybdenum alloy steel. These barrels have lumps that are designed to be dovetailed together, then pinned and soldered with soft solder composed of half tin and half lead. This process avoids the high temperature brazing required with normal chopper-lump (or inferior types of) barrel construction. It results in barrels at least twice as strong as normal double gun barrels.
In his Shotgun Book, Jack O'Connor said he had never seen a Model 21 shot loose. He considered the Model 21's dovetailed barrel construction to be superior in strength, and wrote that the Model 21's frame was made of the best material ever put in a shotgun. He wrote, "I believe the Model 21 Winchester double is probably the strongest, most rugged, and most trouble free double ever made."
This opinion was born out by the results of the famous Winchester proof load test. To promote the gun when it was introduced, Winchester went to great lengths to demonstrate the gun's safety, strength and durability.
Winchester purchased a selection of top brand double guns, which included all of the other famous American brands, for a "test to destruction." The technicians at Winchester fired violent proof ("blue pill") loads in all of the guns until they broke or blew up. None of the guns survived more than 305 of these "blue pill" proof loads, except the Model 21. It successfully fired 2,000 of these 150% pressure proof loads without any kind of failure, at which point the test was stopped and the gun torn down. Absolutely no discernible wear or change of dimension had occurred. This gun was featured in Winchester advertisements, photographed with the pile of 2,000 fired proof load hulls behind it.
In another test, Winchester technicians fired a standard 1 1/8 oz 12 gauge field load in a Model 21 with the top lever and locking bolt removed. The gun was safely held closed merely by ordinary hand pressure."
for the 500 safeties NDZ makes one doesn't look like promag makes the steel one any longer the NDZ performance is an aluminum where the promag was steel but same shape and the NDZ comes ith an allen screw to replace the goofy "tam[er resistant" Mossberg screw.
America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
If I had to go live in the wilderness and live of the land and take only one gun and it had to last a lifetime it would without a doubt be a Remington 12 guage wingmaster. I got my Dad's from the 60s I believe and my Wingmaster magnum I bought in 89.