I guess I believe In ground hog day also.

Since God in omniscient, we are predestined in God's eyes. Since we're not God, we as humans use free will to make choices. However, what we consider free will is actually predestined to an omniscient God. At least that's the way I understand scripture. Ecclesiastes chapter 3 explains 'seasons/fate' pretty well.

To me its like everything else as far as extremism is concerned. If one believes in absolute predestination then wouldn't one also believe in double predestination. If one believes everything was set from the beginning, then some was made chosen and some were made doomed (how is that equal?) So then would that just throw "all men are created equal" which is part of the sentence in the U.S. Declaration of Independence, which Thomas Jefferson penned in 1776 during the beginning of the American Revolution that reads, "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness"?

If people are left hopeless then why should we evangelize to a people who have no hope, I couldn't by my own conscience prolong someones agony by preaching hope to them with me thinking or knowing they are just doomed. A waste of my time and Gods.

So if everything is cut and dried why would I get all politically motivated over abortion. If God ordained it from the beginning then there would be nothing I could do to change or stop it, so then I can just rest easy in my lees and take it as Gods will. If it happens it must be Gods will, don't think so, that is outside my comfort zone.

I guess we have free will to like tulips or daises, its just not free will any longer when I try to use force to make you in my image!

You evangelize because you know there are an elect out there. You don't know who, but you're not responsible for the increase, just the planting and watering.

So planting and watering to a captive audience that was elected before time began versus planting and watering to a "whosoever will" audience?

Hypothetically, Christ could have died in vain if left to the whims of man and his free will. It's possible all men could have rejected the offer God made mankind but there was no such gamble involved. There was an elect, chosen and written in the Lambs book of life before the foundation of the world that Christ had in mind when He died on the cross. There are no addendums or edits to that book.

I hold to Augustine's exegesis of Scripture as far as the choices we people make. It is the foundation of Christian doctrines.

In a nutshell, there are four states for humankind;
A. Able to sin or able not to sin (Latin > posse peccare, posse non peccare) = the state of the 1st man and woman before the Fall.
B. Not able not to sin (non posse non peccare) = the state of man and woman after the Fall.
C. Able not to sin (posse non peccare); the state of the regenerate man and woman.
D. Unable to sin (non posse peccare); the state of the gloried man and woman.

In simple terms, the list of the choices people have at their disposal to pick from "prior to being reborn" are all corrupt. Every choice is unworthy.
After grace regenerates the human heart, the list of choices includes worthy picks.

In all of it, God's Providence is at hand.

Blessings!
Mark

Your fate is not always determined by your actions ... or inaction's.
How about when your group is sent into battle ? Thousands of you.
Normandy, Nam, + + + + other places. It's a given many of you will be killed, more wounded, and everyone knows it. Seems more like "odds" than fate.
Does that all fall under the same explanations here ?
Just wondering.

So would I be wrong to say Jesus is the elect and my salvation is tied to my faith in Him. Or would faith be works and I can't get in Heaven by works. Or is faith action ?
I have knew some that thought to repent and believe was unsatisfactory because repentance is works. I was always taught faith and repentance always go together and one will die without the other.

Luke 22:42. Does God change His mind or is it His will all along?
I do enjoy with my finite mind trying to figure out God's infinite wisdom.

You tell us. One would think an omnipotent God would send Jesus the first time instead of killing all but a handful of people on a boat when they couldn’t be reigned in. He knew that wasn’t going to work, yes?

I'm OK with God knowing a whole lotta things about things I know absolutely nothing about.
After all, clarity is the opposition force to faith at a root level.
The enemy will keep us full up with question after question after question.
For clarity don't ya know.

Just say, you got nothing. Less typing that way. lol

I'm not omnipotent HT so I can't really answer the question. As I said I've got a finite mind. I would figure though that with an omnipotent God everything ultimately is His will and for His glory

I abhor the 140 character limit as a plot against intelligent dialog HT

Like a ladies dress. Long enough to cover the subject, short enough to keep it interesting.

I think most of the problem grasping freewill and an omniscient God is that some people just can't comprehend that even though God knows how it is all going to end, he doesn't manipulate us like puppets along the way. We are free to reject Him.
Yet it isn't us who having anything to do with the saving, that is all done by the grace and mercy of God through Jesus Christ.

For by Grace are ye saved, through faith

Or how could you make the desicion to wear that seat belt or wipe your ---- with out being predestined?

Free to reject him?