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Ok so I just finished listening to this debate right. We the opposing guy who wants all these 2A restrictions pulls out the CLASSIC " Look I'm a hunter ! I hunt deer and ducks " and that whole waffle about not need ign an AR-15 right Well later in in the debate he asks who hunts with a .223 and the other guy point blank says " well I do , do it all the time. " Then he asks " You eat that ? With all that damage ?"and you can tell just by listening to his voice he is absolutely 100% perplexed with this idea
Now I gotta ask.... because I'm not the brightest light in the chandelier and all.... What hunter ... Who hunts deer , even semi regularly, who could have enough knowledge about terminal ballistics,in it's simplist forum to the point they should be taken seriously when discussing firearms ,( big bullet make big hole small bullet make small hole ) be suprised that you hunt deer with a .223 for any reason other then thinking it's too small ?
Like seriously. If this guy's is as much of a FUDD as I think he is he's probably hunting here with some old .30 cal something or heck just a 12ga. I know he's had to seen that what he bops Bambi with ith legit 2x as big as a .223. like I've been at the range and have some little wangster gangsters come up with their hi points and I blow there minds when I tell them them big rounds in my box ar 30-06 and they go in my bolt action 1917 and not my super scary Ar15. But a guy who's trying to use his " hunter status" as leverage..... No no no no just no.
Like this whole debate is pretty painful from the fact this guy just plain didn't seem to grasp that criminals generally don't buy guns in any legal form what so ever to thinking that there's no way we could take on the us military with AR-15's and win.....even though Taliban man , the Ukrainians , the Vietnamese, ect would reaaaally say other wise..... To just the burning obvious face this guy has probably never been in a situation where he felt he needed to be armed. It's all just so painful but a "hunter" wo thinks a .223 causes too much damage... Just completely de-legitimized most of this guy's argument to me. But like I said idk like I said I'm not too bright. Is there some underlying.... Thing.... about the .223 I'm missing that would make a seasoned and knowledgeable Hunter wince at the thought of using it due to too much damage ..... Or is this guy full of it ??
Re: "hunters" and the .223
[Re: Wolfdog91]
#7675096 09/20/2208:06 AM09/20/2208:06 AM
I'd say the guy's full of it. The way I was raised and how I think, .223 is definitely on the small side of the cartridge range I'd like to be at for deer. Granted, I don't take headshots. Heck, I feel undergunned using it on coyotes. I started hunting coyotes with a .30-06 (too much gun, but it's all I had at the time), then moved to a .22-250. Compared to the .22-250, the .223, in my mind, is kind of a pea shooter. Slower velocity, less energy, more drop.
"Pretty cocky for a starving pilgrim!" "An elk don't know how many legs a horse has!"
Re: "hunters" and the .223
[Re: Wolfdog91]
#7675098 09/20/2208:06 AM09/20/2208:06 AM
Gun control is in the bearers hands. The political aspect is not caliber specific. Nor game law applicable. The second amendment is what it is. Period.
Osky
"A womans heart is the hardest rock the Almighty has put on this earth, and I can find no sign on it"
I have shot a deer with an AR in 5.56 but that was when I was younger and had just got my first AR. It only went 50 yards with double lung hit no exit from that varmint bullet . Had I not seen it fall there was no blood trail to follow. Honestly now I don't like them even for coyotes much preferring a 243 or bigger for bang flop vs bang spin flip flop especially when distance increases.
Re: "hunters" and the .223
[Re: Wolfdog91]
#7675103 09/20/2208:22 AM09/20/2208:22 AM
Its all math, weight x speed equals energy. period. I would argue that a bigger caliber bullet creates a bigger hole, larger wound channel. Tell them to follow the science.
Re: "hunters" and the .223
[Re: Wolfdog91]
#7675104 09/20/2208:25 AM09/20/2208:25 AM
The 223 is plenty for coyotes in my opinion. With the correct bullet it makes an acceptable deer load. Ive killed more coyotes with a 22. calling throughout the yrs than all my larger calibers combined. shot placement is key but I've had more than a handful gather themselves an high tail. 22 never leaves truck so I use what I have when I have time
Re: "hunters" and the .223
[Re: Wolfdog91]
#7675106 09/20/2208:34 AM09/20/2208:34 AM
I have had people argue with me that the .223 is some kind of super bullet that causes massive damage and I ask how many shot deer have you examined? It's just common sense, bigger bullet more tissue damage... If that little bullet hits a bone and shatters, you have lots of tissue damage right there on the surface, but that's not what you want. If you place it right it's going to do a lot less damage than a 30 caliber. I would feel more comfortable with at least a .243.
Right now I’m having amnesia and déjà vu at the same time. I think I’ve forgotten this before.
Re: "hunters" and the .223
[Re: Wolfdog91]
#7675112 09/20/2208:41 AM09/20/2208:41 AM
Most people and unfortunately many hunters don't understand whatba bullet does or doesn't do. Let alone understand know various bullet designs and compositions do. You can red mist a squirrel with a 22 or just poke a hole in it depending on shot placement and bullet type.
Similar to discussions on broadheads. Some of the broadheads out there should not even look at a bone of a deer even out of high powered crossbows
I have shot a deer with an AR in 5.56 but that was when I was younger and had just got my first AR. It only went 50 yards with double lung hit no exit from that varmint bullet . Had I not seen it fall there was no blood trail to follow. Honestly now I don't like them even for coyotes much preferring a 243 or bigger for bang flop vs bang spin flip flop especially when distance increases.
Shot a deer with a 22 250 once. Heart shot . It walked about 10 yds and fell over dead. Not a drop of blood on ground or on deer. We couldn't even find the entrance hole until we skinned it.. And this was with a Remington core lok bullet designed for heavier game than varmints. No external blood is a big reason I don't like 22 calibers for deer. If the deer runs a little ways with a marginal hit like liver or one lung it will be unnecessarily hard to find.
Re: "hunters" and the .223
[Re: Wolfdog91]
#7675116 09/20/2208:50 AM09/20/2208:50 AM
he is believing the media that 223 is this super weapon
there is this generation that watched Dan Writher on the evening news that thinks 97% of what they hear on the TV is legit. when it is more the other direction 3% of tv these days is real. My aunt is in this way nicest persons and has done so much to help my grandparents , she is my uncles 2nd wife and 50% more sane than the last one but but mention guns out side of us hunting with a shotgun and she is 10000% bat guano crazy believes 100% of the lies and weapons of war and yet ask her about income taxes or some stupid law and all them politicians are lying
I just can't understand how she can believe the gun lies , well because she thinks the they are the experts and never put 2 seconds into thinking about he physics or everything she knows they are lying about.
and the 223 super weapon lie is propped up by the number of dead in a shooting with one and people see 10. 15 , 17 and think this is a massive number they have no clue that was the work of an idiot with 1/2 a second of planning and almost no training
they want so hard to believe that a simple change of something that means nothing to them will make a safer world , the harsh reality is it was never a safe world but they are a Disney pre-woke generation and they like that fantasy that people haven't brutally killed each other for centuries
223 sure it isn't a pistol but in all reality it is a varmint round that with the right bullet can do decent on deer.
you almost have to wonder how many deer this guy has shot.
we call those the Deer hunting Libs here
everyone in WI has got a cousin or brother in law or someone who fits in this deer hunting lib category
and the Fuddery abounds
my great grandfather who died in 1963 thought the 22 hornet was the perfect deer round , because he had been a fairly early adopter of the cartridge some time in the 30s , they never shot deer anywhere but the head and neck and it shot very well. their longest shot was also 100 yards they shot a fair number tending their orchards
he only had his evidence a 32 win spl , 30-30 or larger didn't do anything different when a deer is shot in the neck so why have the recoil
if you hunt like your archery hunting 223 with good shot placement you probably never chase a deer at all
my great uncle talks about how he never saw a deer his dad shot with the 22 hornet take more than 3 steps falling over and I never saw that great uncle shoot a deer anywhere but the neck he used a 20ga slug the 28 years we hunted together. also never saw him take a shot past about 50 yards and that was to put down a deer a cousin already had a round in before it got to far mostly he was 35 yards and in.
Last edited by GREENCOUNTYPETE; 09/20/2209:26 AM.
America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: "hunters" and the .223
[Re: Wolfdog91]
#7675125 09/20/2208:59 AM09/20/2208:59 AM
I watched this a couple of days ago and the some thing caught my attention. Colin should of asked what he used to hunt deer with. Asked him about his hunting experiences. I don't think Colin did a very good job at all, he had lots of opportunities to show the guys ignorance.
Re: "hunters" and the .223
[Re: Wolfdog91]
#7675129 09/20/2209:15 AM09/20/2209:15 AM
I watched this a couple of days ago and the some thing caught my attention. Colin should of asked what he used to hunt deer with. Asked him about his hunting experiences. I don't think Colin did a very good job at all, he had lots of opportunities to show the guys ignorance.
Colin is a nice guy and he is catching up quick in guns , but he came to guns late already an adult , he seems to be good people but I just don't think he has the decades of gun culture knowledge yet , he seems to be a fast learner.
America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: "hunters" and the .223
[Re: Wolfdog91]
#7675155 09/20/2210:06 AM09/20/2210:06 AM
Personally, when I actually hunted deer with a firearm, I used a .338 win mag, or a .375 H&H. Big heavy bullet that doesn’t even think about expanding before it’s exited the deer. Near zero bloodshot meat even when bone is hit. So yes, in my opinion, a .223 does too much damage! LOL
Life Member NTA & FTA "Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass. It's about learning to dance in the rain
I watched this a couple of days ago and the some thing caught my attention. Colin should of asked what he used to hunt deer with. Asked him about his hunting experiences. I don't think Colin did a very good job at all, he had lots of opportunities to show the guys ignorance.
Colin is a nice guy and he is catching up quick in guns , but he came to guns late already an adult , he seems to be good people but I just don't think he has the decades of gun culture knowledge yet , he seems to be a fast learner.
He really missed his chance not bringing up Chicago's restrictive laws and stellar job they do. But in the moment and on the spot he did ok.
Re: "hunters" and the .223
[Re: Wolfdog91]
#7675174 09/20/2211:15 AM09/20/2211:15 AM
That's all that needs said to anyone to end such a stupid argument for gun control. The "you don't hunt with a AR15" argument is a mute point. (and wrong as well as many of us do.)
Re: "hunters" and the .223
[Re: Wolfdog91]
#7675177 09/20/2211:22 AM09/20/2211:22 AM