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Another shotshell reloading? #7675369
09/20/22 04:55 PM
09/20/22 04:55 PM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 10,701
Maine, Aroostook
Posco Online content OP
trapper
Posco  Online Content OP
trapper

Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 10,701
Maine, Aroostook
I've noticed reloading data seems to be hull specific. I'm reloading (intend to) for 2 1/2" 12g shells and want/need low pressure loads. It seems everything from powder to wads to primers change load recipes depending on whether the hull is a Federal, Winchester, Remington, etc..

In a time when all components are hard to come by, how big a difference does it make and is it safe to substitute components? I don't want to blow this thing up.
[Linked Image]



Last edited by Posco; 09/20/22 04:55 PM.
Re: Another shotshell reloading? [Re: Posco] #7675373
09/20/22 05:03 PM
09/20/22 05:03 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 19,282
The Hill Country of Texas
Leftlane Offline
"HOSS"
Leftlane  Offline
"HOSS"

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 19,282
The Hill Country of Texas
The old man who coached me and a few of my buddies along back when we were in HS said he guessed everything was hull specific because of the times it might take for different hulls to blow open the crimp and the pressures they might build during those slight delays in time.

He advocated taking inventory and finding a load safe for what we had the most off. Because these were just Dove and quail loads that plan worked out well.


We have some very knowledgeable and technical guys here so hopefully they chime in. If Green Co Pete says I am all wet, than forget I posted this LOL


ďWhatís good for me may not be good for the weak minded.Ē
Captain Gus McCrae- Texas Rangers


Re: Another shotshell reloading? [Re: Posco] #7675377
09/20/22 05:13 PM
09/20/22 05:13 PM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 10,701
Maine, Aroostook
Posco Online content OP
trapper
Posco  Online Content OP
trapper

Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 10,701
Maine, Aroostook
Thanks, Ll.

Re: Another shotshell reloading? [Re: Posco] #7675388
09/20/22 05:29 PM
09/20/22 05:29 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 28,908
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
D

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 28,908
williamsburg ks
i cut 2 3/4 empty hulls off just below the crimp line. resize the brass base and prime on my loader. i take WAA12 wads and cut the bottom off so you just have the shot cup. i have a paper punch for wads. 80 grains of black powder or 80 grains by volume of pyrodex. a shot card on top the powder under the plastic shot cup. cereal boxs or similar card board to punch out cards. i press the shot cup down firmly. i put a 1 1/8 oz load of shot in the cup. another wad on top and a ring of elmers wood glue around the card edge and the hull. it helps to lightly sand inside the hull where the over shot card goes so the glue sticks good. remember to thoroughly clean the shot gun after every use. grandson has been shooting an old 2 1/2 inch chambered damascus barreled side by side with my loads for awhile. kills pheasants and quail pretty good so i imagine anything else too. the over shot card will be down in the cartridge a bit but it doesn't seem to hurt performance.

remember to clean after each time you shoot it as soon as your done shooting. dont wait till tomorrow.

Last edited by danny clifton; 09/20/22 05:32 PM.

Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Another shotshell reloading? [Re: Posco] #7675428
09/20/22 06:41 PM
09/20/22 06:41 PM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 10,701
Maine, Aroostook
Posco Online content OP
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Posco  Online Content OP
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Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 10,701
Maine, Aroostook
Thank you, danny.

Re: Another shotshell reloading? [Re: Posco] #7675572
09/20/22 09:48 PM
09/20/22 09:48 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,343
MN >>>WI
T-Rex Offline
trapper
T-Rex  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,343
MN >>>WI
It ain't all that complicated.

But, since you don't seem to have the basic common sense background,...

No Comment.


Man who mistake shillelagh for fairy wand; see pixie dust, also.
Re: Another shotshell reloading? [Re: T-Rex] #7675575
09/20/22 09:51 PM
09/20/22 09:51 PM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 10,701
Maine, Aroostook
Posco Online content OP
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Posco  Online Content OP
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Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 10,701
Maine, Aroostook
Originally Posted by T-Rex
It ain't all that complicated.

But, since you don't seem to have the basic common sense background,...

No Comment.


Nice shot.

Re: Another shotshell reloading? [Re: Posco] #7675589
09/20/22 10:05 PM
09/20/22 10:05 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,343
MN >>>WI
T-Rex Offline
trapper
T-Rex  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,343
MN >>>WI
My "no comment" wasn't intended to be a put-down.

Just a friendly reminder to do a bit of research before messing with the unknown.


Man who mistake shillelagh for fairy wand; see pixie dust, also.
Re: Another shotshell reloading? [Re: Posco] #7675591
09/20/22 10:06 PM
09/20/22 10:06 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 19,282
The Hill Country of Texas
Leftlane Offline
"HOSS"
Leftlane  Offline
"HOSS"

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 19,282
The Hill Country of Texas
Yikes! Ima start the popcorn I guess!


ďWhatís good for me may not be good for the weak minded.Ē
Captain Gus McCrae- Texas Rangers


Re: Another shotshell reloading? [Re: Posco] #7675600
09/20/22 10:35 PM
09/20/22 10:35 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 704
Hilton, NY
P
Paul D. Heppner Offline
trapper
Paul D. Heppner  Offline
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P

Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 704
Hilton, NY
Ballistic Products sells brand new primed 2 1/2 inch Cheddite hulls and I believe a loading manual for 2 1/2 inch loads. There is no haz-mat fee for primed hulls. And yes there is a real difference in hulls. Remington and Winchester AA hulls are tappered on the inside. Winchester Universal, Federal, Fiocchi, Rio, Cheddite, RC2, and all the European ammo that I know of are straight wall cases. If you are looking for low pressure I would concentrate on cases with paper or fiber base wads. Please don't try to stuff a 2 3/4 inch load in a 2 1/2 hull. Pressure will go up. I think published 2 1/2 inch data might be a hassle to come up with. It's got to be out there somewhere.

Re: Another shotshell reloading? [Re: Posco] #7675603
09/20/22 10:58 PM
09/20/22 10:58 PM
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 57
Alabama
W
WSD Trapper Offline
trapper
WSD Trapper  Offline
trapper
W

Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 57
Alabama
Posco get a shotshell reliading manual and read it if you don't have one already. Reloading shotshells is like cooking. Change the recipe (any component) and you can end up with something very unexpected. Data is specific to BRAND and TYPE of hull. Each brand can have several different types of hulls. What is safe in one type can be potentially deadly in another. All of this is covered in the manual. Each load listed will also have the pressure test data too. If you want low pressure loads you can pick one out. If you are comparing pressure data from different sources be aware that there are different ways of measuring pressure. Pounds per square inch (PSI), Lead units of pressure (LUP), Copper units of pressure (CUP) are the most common, but there are others. THESE ARE NOT INTERCHANGEABLE. 1 psi is not 1Lup or 1Cup. If you didn't read my reply to your other post on reloading please do so.

Re: Another shotshell reloading? [Re: Posco] #7675717
09/21/22 06:30 AM
09/21/22 06:30 AM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 10,701
Maine, Aroostook
Posco Online content OP
trapper
Posco  Online Content OP
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Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 10,701
Maine, Aroostook
Thank you Paul and WSD. Those were the answers I was looking for. Appreciate it.

Re: Another shotshell reloading? [Re: danny clifton] #7675752
09/21/22 07:19 AM
09/21/22 07:19 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,764
central arkansas
T
the Blak Spot Offline
trapper
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T

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,764
central arkansas
Originally Posted by danny clifton
i cut 2 3/4 empty hulls off just below the crimp line. resize the brass base and prime on my loader. i take WAA12 wads and cut the bottom off so you just have the shot cup. i have a paper punch for wads. 80 grains of black powder or 80 grains by volume of pyrodex. a shot card on top the powder under the plastic shot cup. cereal boxs or similar card board to punch out cards. i press the shot cup down firmly. i put a 1 1/8 oz load of shot in the cup. another wad on top and a ring of elmers wood glue around the card edge and the hull. it helps to lightly sand inside the hull where the over shot card goes so the glue sticks good. remember to thoroughly clean the shot gun after every use. grandson has been shooting an old 2 1/2 inch chambered damascus barreled side by side with my loads for awhile. kills pheasants and quail pretty good so i imagine anything else too. the over shot card will be down in the cartridge a bit but it doesn't seem to hurt performance.

remember to clean after each time you shoot it as soon as your done shooting. dont wait till tomorrow.

Not to mention they sound awesome


the just shall live by faith

member FTA, ATA, EAFT
1776 - the year we told a tyrant we weren't to be under a dictator
Caveat ater macula
Re: Another shotshell reloading? [Re: Posco] #7675818
09/21/22 09:27 AM
09/21/22 09:27 AM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,916
Peoria County Illinois
Larry Baer Offline
trapper
Larry Baer  Offline
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Posts: 1,916
Peoria County Illinois
I shoot an old Baker Paragon 12 ga. I love the black powder.

It does make a difference on the load recipes you use. Hogdon has some with Titewad that are around 7000 you might want to look up. When Hogdon bought out other powder companies several of the low pressure powders were discontinued. You might try estate sales for some.

Black powder is easy to find. You can even make it. I shoot 80 grains - then the same volume of shot for a regular load. I use Federal paper hulls with that amount of black powder, a card sets on top of the powder then a lubricated fiber wad, shot, then and over shot card. I roll crimp them. It's different reloading and can be done by hand. Don't use a reloader with black powder unless you get the black powder parts to do so. Static electricity can build in the loader and blow all of it up. I shot RST shells too but they are way behind now.
Black powder is fun and it will make everyone look your way at the trap range when you pull the trigger. Tons of garbage flies out the end of the barrel and it will be sooty with lots of dirt in the barrel. The chamber will be clean. Keep shooting all you want and it will just look dirty as all get out but when you clean it at the end of the day use some hot soapy water and a good tight patch the oil it when you are done. But the end of the barrels in a coffee can of hot soapy water and suck it up into the barrels a few times with a tight patch and cleaning rod. The barrels will be super easy to clean and it will look like a mirror finish when you are done. Set it somewhere warm like in the sun or over a furnace vent / in front of a fireplace to dry all the way and oil it. It will last you two lifetimes. My Baker was my Great Grandpas and was bought about 1905. He looks like he means business in this picture. That's his Baker Shotgun.

You could test the barrels by sending them off to be proof tested?

Look at the Hogdon website for recipes.



[Linked Image]


[Linked Image]


Just passin through
Re: Another shotshell reloading? [Re: Posco] #7675841
09/21/22 10:11 AM
09/21/22 10:11 AM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 10,701
Maine, Aroostook
Posco Online content OP
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Posco  Online Content OP
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Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 10,701
Maine, Aroostook
Thank you, Larry, great info. I appreciate all of the input. The gun I intend to load for is nitro proofed but it doesn't indicate to what pressure. I've debated buying loaded ammo, emptying the shells, cutting them down to 2 1/2" and going from there. Even trying to determine which hull any manufacturer is currently using is a trick.

I want to stick to smokeless powder. I've been looking at Titewad. Now to find a hull, wad and primer to go with it.

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

Re: Another shotshell reloading? [Re: Posco] #7675843
09/21/22 10:16 AM
09/21/22 10:16 AM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 10,701
Maine, Aroostook
Posco Online content OP
trapper
Posco  Online Content OP
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Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 10,701
Maine, Aroostook
P.S...I've lost sight of bears to the cloud of black powder smoke, I don't want to do that with grouse.

Re: Another shotshell reloading? [Re: Posco] #7675844
09/21/22 10:17 AM
09/21/22 10:17 AM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,119
NC - Here there and everywhere
C
coondagger2 Offline
"Brat"
coondagger2  Offline
"Brat"
C

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,119
NC - Here there and everywhere
I always tell guys itís cheap insurance to have a load tested for pressure and velocity. If you think youíve got a good load that is an educated guess based on components and published data, send it off to be tested and then you know.

I used a guy in Florida for a couple years but now use Precision Reloading in SD. Itís $25 for them to test a string of 5 shots. Very cheap insurance in the grand scheme of things


Gotta live up to the nickname...
Re: Another shotshell reloading? [Re: coondagger2] #7675846
09/21/22 10:20 AM
09/21/22 10:20 AM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 10,701
Maine, Aroostook
Posco Online content OP
trapper
Posco  Online Content OP
trapper

Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 10,701
Maine, Aroostook
Originally Posted by coondagger2
I always tell guys itís cheap insurance to have a load tested for pressure and velocity. If you think youíve got a good load that is an educated guess based on components and published data, send it off to be tested and then you know.

I used a guy in Florida for a couple years but now use Precision Reloading in SD. Itís $25 for them to test a string of 5 shots. Very cheap insurance in the grand scheme of things

Appreciate that.

Re: Another shotshell reloading? [Re: Posco] #7675847
09/21/22 10:27 AM
09/21/22 10:27 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 34,828
McGrath, AK
W
white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
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"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 34,828
McGrath, AK
Looking on Hodgdon's site they do not show any CURRENT loads using Titewad in 2 1/2" hulls that I can find. In all of the 2 1/2" that you can choose, they only list International or Universal Clays.

A couple of those loads are down around 6700 psi... that's seems pretty low to me. I use International but haven't seen any for at least 4 years. You MIGHT find some Universal


Mean As Nails
Re: Another shotshell reloading? [Re: Posco] #7676429
09/21/22 10:18 PM
09/21/22 10:18 PM
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 57
Alabama
W
WSD Trapper Offline
trapper
WSD Trapper  Offline
trapper
W

Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 57
Alabama
Hodgdon has reloading data on their website for 2" and 2 1/2" shells. These loads were developed using the specific hull listed, NOT cutdown 2 3/4 hulls. Starting out I suggest you purchase the listed hulls new from a supplier or purchase loaded ammo and save the empties. There may be some data available somewhere that uses cutdown hulls but be aware that it may not be lab tested data. Searching for shotgunning forums, antique shotgun forums, trap or skeet forums, etc might lead you to some proven data or give you some better ideas about what you are getting into. Just like trapping on here, there will be guys on there who eat, live, and breathe shotguns and reloading 24/7.

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