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First Proof of This I've Seen... #7676848
09/22/22 05:34 PM
09/22/22 05:34 PM
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South Ga - Almost Florida
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Swamp Wolf Offline OP
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A local permitted deer rehabber sent me this today. A doe that he raised/bottle-fed had a fawn today (September 22nd). This doe is 1.5 years old, so she was a yearling last fall.

The enclosure is designed so the deer can jump in and out as they get old enough to do so. 100% wild bucks also have been observed jumping in there over the years.

With a whitetail's 200 day gestation...this would be a late Feb/early March breeding for a late September birthing.

I've read and was taught in college that this happens but this is a first proof for me.

I'm gonna have to look more closely at these single doe deer before I arrow one now...

[Linked Image]


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Re: First Proof of This I've Seen... [Re: Swamp Wolf] #7676860
09/22/22 06:02 PM
09/22/22 06:02 PM
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Georgia
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Very interesting Swampwolf! So I guess she wouldn’t have made the weight requirement to go into her first cycle at a normal time? And then maybe didn’t get bred the first time around on top of that? Is yalls rut generally in October?

Re: First Proof of This I've Seen... [Re: Swamp Wolf] #7676861
09/22/22 06:03 PM
09/22/22 06:03 PM
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Western New York
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Tony1967 Offline
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We have had a couple instances of this in my area this year as well. Fawns sighted within the last couple weeks just having been born. What is happening to cause this?

Re: First Proof of This I've Seen... [Re: Swamp Wolf] #7676865
09/22/22 06:06 PM
09/22/22 06:06 PM
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Georgia
warrior Offline
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Southwest Alabama regularly still has spotted fawns in November.

Re: First Proof of This I've Seen... [Re: Tony1967] #7676869
09/22/22 06:13 PM
09/22/22 06:13 PM
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South Ga - Almost Florida
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Swamp Wolf Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Tony1967
We have had a couple instances of this in my area this year as well. Fawns sighted within the last couple weeks just having been born. What is happening to cause this?

6 month old fawns will sometimes reach a very healthy body wt and physical condition that triggers them coming into heat in late winter.

Another factor that may contribute is a high doe population and a low buck population...

And/or, as Warrior stated: a historically later breeding cycle in certain regions of the country.


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Re: First Proof of This I've Seen... [Re: sportsman94] #7676872
09/22/22 06:16 PM
09/22/22 06:16 PM
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South Ga - Almost Florida
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Originally Posted by sportsman94
Very interesting Swampwolf! So I guess she wouldn’t have made the weight requirement to go into her first cycle at a normal time? And then maybe didn’t get bred the first time around on top of that? Is yalls rut generally in October?

Yes..she must have reached a very good physical condition in late, late winter and came into heat.

Approx 90% or more of doe deer here are bred from mid October to Halloween.

In the early 2000's, we (DNR staff) collected the reproductive tracts from 70 does harvested near the Ga-Fl line in early December. 5% were bred in late Sept. 90% were bred in late October, 5% were not yet visibly bred when they were killed in December.

Last edited by Swamp Wolf; 09/22/22 06:21 PM.

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Re: First Proof of This I've Seen... [Re: Swamp Wolf] #7676884
09/22/22 06:30 PM
09/22/22 06:30 PM
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East Texas
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BTLowry Offline
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Heard of a doe being shot in mid December that was near full term

Shooter never considered she was heavy bred and not just fat

Re: First Proof of This I've Seen... [Re: Swamp Wolf] #7676887
09/22/22 06:35 PM
09/22/22 06:35 PM
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SW Georgia
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Wanna Be Offline
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I’d think with our climate they could breed all year. I’ve spotted fawns in December. Got video of a nice antlered buck and one that had shed, hard on a doe in early April. That antlered buck wanted to fight but that shed buck wanted no part of it without head gear.

I’m confused on the terminology. I thought 1st year deer we’re fawns, the next year they’re yearlings or 1.5yr old deer. Are you calling them fawns just until they lose their spots then call them yearlings during that first year?

Re: First Proof of This I've Seen... [Re: BTLowry] #7676888
09/22/22 06:36 PM
09/22/22 06:36 PM
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South Ga - Almost Florida
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Originally Posted by BTLowry
Heard of a doe being shot in mid December that was near full term

Shooter never considered she was heavy bred and not just fat

Sorta has me to thinking about all those does I've seen and killed over the years that didn't have a yearling with them but they had milk in their udders....in Sept, Oct, Nov, and Dec.

With a newborn fawn now, it will be several weeks before the doe will let the fawn follow her to food sources.....hmmm.


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Re: First Proof of This I've Seen... [Re: Wanna Be] #7676892
09/22/22 06:38 PM
09/22/22 06:38 PM
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South Ga - Almost Florida
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Swamp Wolf Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Wanna Be


I’m confused on the terminology. I thought 1st year deer we’re fawns, the next year they’re yearlings or 1.5yr old deer. Are you calling them fawns just until they lose their spots then call them yearlings during that first year?


Yes....just the way I've always referred to them.

Fawns = spots.

Yearling = after spots fade but still with doe for rest of year.

I refer to 1.5 year old bucks as yearling bucks.

Not written in stone.....just the way I've always referred to em.

Last edited by Swamp Wolf; 09/22/22 06:40 PM.

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Re: First Proof of This I've Seen... [Re: Swamp Wolf] #7676904
09/22/22 06:52 PM
09/22/22 06:52 PM
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PA
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A doe will go into heat over and over until she's bred. I think they usually are done about May-June or so.

Technically she would ( by most biologists aging ) have been a fawn when bred. Some people consider them yearlings after their first winter.

I forget the weight they need to be to be able to breed. It's somewhere around 60-70 lbs. So if she was born normally in May-June, and had good feed to gain weight it's entirely possible for her to be bred. I do believe I read somewhere that they are later than adult does coming into heat.

I was muzzle loader hunting in January a couple years ago. A doe walked up and just as I was going to pull the trigger her bright spotted fawn came up and started nursing. I let her walk. That fawn couldn't have been more than 2 months old.

Last edited by elkaholic; 09/22/22 06:54 PM.

Millions of trees die every year to print environmentalist publications
Re: First Proof of This I've Seen... [Re: Swamp Wolf] #7676909
09/22/22 06:58 PM
09/22/22 06:58 PM
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South Ga - Almost Florida
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The only other time I've seen any evidence of this was two fully-spotted fawns with a doe on Thanksgiving day....but they appeared to be a couple months or a bit older.

I've always assumed that most late born fawns don't make it as the sightings here of fawns that fall in this category are rare.


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Re: First Proof of This I've Seen... [Re: Swamp Wolf] #7676912
09/22/22 07:04 PM
09/22/22 07:04 PM
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Pennsylvania
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Originally Posted by Swamp Wolf
Originally Posted by Wanna Be


I’m confused on the terminology. I thought 1st year deer we’re fawns, the next year they’re yearlings or 1.5yr old deer. Are you calling them fawns just until they lose their spots then call them yearlings during that first year?


Yes....just the way I've always referred to them.

Fawns = spots.

Yearling = after spots fade but still with doe for rest of year.

I refer to 1.5 year old bucks as yearling bucks.

Not written in stone.....just the way I've always referred to em.



X2

Re: First Proof of This I've Seen... [Re: Swamp Wolf] #7676919
09/22/22 07:27 PM
09/22/22 07:27 PM
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I should of kept the picture, but I just had a pic on my trail cam of a really small fawn with white spots and a Doe on Sept 14th.
I figured she came in heat a 2nd time and got bred. Wonder how that fawn will do this winter.


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Re: First Proof of This I've Seen... [Re: Swamp Wolf] #7676937
09/22/22 07:53 PM
09/22/22 07:53 PM
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The Hill Country of Texas
Leftlane Offline
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Wow JPark, I was reading the OPs post thinking it is his southern climate but your post has me surprised


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Re: First Proof of This I've Seen... [Re: Swamp Wolf] #7676942
09/22/22 08:01 PM
09/22/22 08:01 PM
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WI
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Off the topic of deer, but I’ve always said this pertains to turkeys as well. I’ve seen poults towards the end of summer the size of a softball.

Re: First Proof of This I've Seen... [Re: Swamp Wolf] #7676949
09/22/22 08:16 PM
09/22/22 08:16 PM
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SW Georgia
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Look at this pic…and yes the date and temp are right, lol. Welcome to the south.
[Linked Image]

Re: First Proof of This I've Seen... [Re: Jurassic Park] #7676965
09/22/22 08:43 PM
09/22/22 08:43 PM
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South Ga - Almost Florida
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Originally Posted by Jurassic Park
I should of kept the picture, but I just had a pic on my trail cam of a really small fawn with white spots and a Doe on Sept 14th.
I figured she came in heat a 2nd time and got bred. Wonder how that fawn will do this winter.

Probably not too good in your northern climate..


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Re: First Proof of This I've Seen... [Re: Leftlane] #7676969
09/22/22 08:49 PM
09/22/22 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Leftlane
Wow JPark, I was reading the OPs post thinking it is his southern climate but your post has me surprised


Ya I thought it was normal for deer down south to have fawns during fall because of their warmer climate. Figured it was the fawns coming into heat around the 9 month old range for their first time.

I’ll probably have more pics of that fawn and Doe the next time I check that camera. I’ll post the pics if I get them, and remember.


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Re: First Proof of This I've Seen... [Re: Swamp Wolf] #7676971
09/22/22 08:49 PM
09/22/22 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Swamp Wolf
Originally Posted by Jurassic Park
I should of kept the picture, but I just had a pic on my trail cam of a really small fawn with white spots and a Doe on Sept 14th.
I figured she came in heat a 2nd time and got bred. Wonder how that fawn will do this winter.

Probably not too good in your northern climate..


I agree! I think those ones become Wolf food for the most part.


Cold as ice!
Re: First Proof of This I've Seen... [Re: Swamp Wolf] #7676977
09/22/22 09:03 PM
09/22/22 09:03 PM
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Coldspring Texas
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... good eatin right there


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Re: First Proof of This I've Seen... [Re: Tony1967] #7676979
09/22/22 09:05 PM
09/22/22 09:05 PM
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Alaska and Washington State
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Originally Posted by Tony1967
We have had a couple instances of this in my area this year as well. Fawns sighted within the last couple weeks just having been born. What is happening to cause this?

Gotta be climate change; better hurry up and buy an electric car.


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Re: First Proof of This I've Seen... [Re: Swamp Wolf] #7676987
09/22/22 09:16 PM
09/22/22 09:16 PM
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SW Georgia
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This is nature, nothing is written in stone, lol. We’re on our third quail hatch of the summer.
Seen “quail sized” poults on opening day of turkey season and in late August.
Just posted a pic of a fawn that was probably dropped about the same time as Swamps pic based on the spots remaining.
Nothing in Nature surprises me anymore, lol. Every year I see something that makes me say Hmmm.

Re: First Proof of This I've Seen... [Re: Swamp Wolf] #7677000
09/22/22 09:26 PM
09/22/22 09:26 PM
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Alabama
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In the early 2000's, we (DNR staff) collected the reproductive tracts from 70 does harvested near the Ga-Fl line in early December. 5% were bred in late Sept. 90% were bred in late October, 5% were not yet visibly bred when they were killed in December. [/quote]

I hunt in central Alabama. Our DNR staff said the majority of our deer are bred during mid January. In recent years our “late rut” in February is very active. Our does start dropping in August/September. I’ve seen a heavily spotted fawn in late December once. We will see a pregnant doe or 2 on game cameras late September. This deer was Sept 1. [Linked Image]


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Re: First Proof of This I've Seen... [Re: Swamp Wolf] #7677004
09/22/22 09:28 PM
09/22/22 09:28 PM
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Georgia
warrior Offline
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I've found pinkie squirrels in attics first week of January so I've learned to never say never with wildlife.

Maybe I should put how I dealt with that one on the poaching thread.

Re: First Proof of This I've Seen... [Re: Swamp Wolf] #7677071
09/22/22 10:14 PM
09/22/22 10:14 PM
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The Hill Country of Texas
Leftlane Offline
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JP,
Pics are great but we take you as a credible outdoorsman LOL. I know your skulls and taxidermy work speaks for itself. Too bad about being Canadian.

Keep track of spots and let us know how that one winters.


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Captain Gus McCrae- Texas Rangers


Re: First Proof of This I've Seen... [Re: Swamp Wolf] #7677083
09/22/22 10:24 PM
09/22/22 10:24 PM
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Minnesota
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Interesting thread line


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Re: First Proof of This I've Seen... [Re: Swamp Wolf] #7677087
09/22/22 10:26 PM
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About 25 years ago I had a fawn with spots about size of a tall beagle walk under me on November 12 !

Re: First Proof of This I've Seen... [Re: Swamp Wolf] #7677091
09/22/22 10:29 PM
09/22/22 10:29 PM
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The Hill Country of Texas
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See what I wonder is did it make it to March 2nd...


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Re: First Proof of This I've Seen... [Re: Swamp Wolf] #7677125
09/22/22 11:11 PM
09/22/22 11:11 PM
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Georgia
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In the spirit of the other thread, I've seen some of those Nov fawns walk out of the woods in a lunchbox cooler.

Re: First Proof of This I've Seen... [Re: Swamp Wolf] #7677155
09/23/22 12:23 AM
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montana
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Here in Montana first rut is in Nov. Second one is in Dec. Usually when the yearling or first fawn deer cycle.


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Re: First Proof of This I've Seen... [Re: Swamp Wolf] #7677165
09/23/22 12:36 AM
09/23/22 12:36 AM
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I've never seen just-past-spots fawn here in the fall or early winter. And if they did, it wouldn't survive the winter. We've (the SD state game agency) never let out lots and lots of deer tags, the most I've seen for a single tag was for 3 anterless. In the 1980s, a lot fewer tags in East River than today.

I think it was in 1985 and I had 2 tags (the first was as designed shooter for my blind father) and the 2nd was my own tag. Our rifle season for East River is (or typically was) short, usually about 9 days. I dumped a big nice doe for dad and then the next weekend I went out and popped the first deer that jumped up (I had finals to study for). It was a little WT doe. I drove home that night to process it and checked how much it weighed in my arms on a bathroom scale, 64 pounds field dressed (South Dakotans tend to field dress deer and not gut them out at home as some folks usually do). My brother shot a 1 1/2 year buck down on Ft Hood that year (with a .223 Mini-14) and field dressed that young buck weighed 67 pounds. I suspect my little doe that year was born in June from a "2nd rut" December breeding...


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Re: First Proof of This I've Seen... [Re: Swamp Wolf] #7677272
09/23/22 07:45 AM
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I've seen spotted fawns the week of Thanksgiving. I've also seen bucks breed does towards the end of February.



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Re: First Proof of This I've Seen... [Re: Swamp Wolf] #7677281
09/23/22 08:06 AM
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I've seen them in heat in February and March here. Never seen fawns during hunting season that looked that young though. I just kind of assumed the doe didn't stick. We have cows that will for whatever reason keep coming in heat but wouldn't stick so I assume it could happen with deer.

Re: First Proof of This I've Seen... [Re: Swamp Wolf] #7677359
09/23/22 09:53 AM
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OK, I'm way up North of most of you that posted here, but I saw a pair of spotted fawns last year that were about the size of a Springer Spaniel in the first week of November. That's the first I had ever seen anything like that . Their tracks were about the size of a quarter. I believe one survived the winter according to a neighbor that was watching them.


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Re: First Proof of This I've Seen... [Re: Swamp Wolf] #7677412
09/23/22 11:07 AM
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Swamp Wolf Offline OP
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Dang climate change messing everything up....lol


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