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Re: rural life today [Re: danny clifton] #7679401
09/26/22 12:07 PM
09/26/22 12:07 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 55
ND
K
Kyle Krebs Offline
trapper
Kyle Krebs  Offline
trapper
K

Joined: May 2013
Posts: 55
ND
Government subsidies are available to all farms regardless of size. Infact they are capped so big operation don't get paid on every acre. I don't agree with them but they are a fact of business. I know you guys think I'm just a crazy kid and you might be right but we actually do sell raw milk( cow shares in ND) beef and garden produce off it place direct. We also have a small pumpkin patch every fall. ( Sold over 5000 dollars in pumpkin last weekend) I don't agree with the regulations but again play by rules or change them. Unlike most of you I have had very long talks with ND ag inspector about these very topics. He doesn't like me! I have talked to congressman trying to get laws changed ( it's not easy) and this is at local level not federal. Rural America under attack? Maybe but ask yourself why some of these regulations are in place to start with. Alot are 50 plus years old and need to be changed. I take pride inwhat I sell and we have very good customers. My point is you can't just blame it on government conspiracy. Probably the biggest threat to agriculture is people buying up land that have no intention of using it for agriculture. And you hit the nail on the head with alot of comments on land getting divided up sold off to highest bidder ECT. Good old American greed!! But don't blame it on big farms or little farms or government conspiracy. We are all to blame one way or another.

Re: rural life today [Re: danny clifton] #7679431
09/26/22 01:08 PM
09/26/22 01:08 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 58,468
Minnesota
330-Trapper Offline

trapper
330-Trapper  Offline

trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 58,468
Minnesota
Seems almost Every other Generation


NRA and NTA Life Member
www.BackroadsRevised@etsy.com




Re: rural life today [Re: danny clifton] #7679441
09/26/22 01:18 PM
09/26/22 01:18 PM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,770
east central WI
D
Dirty D Offline
trapper
Dirty D  Offline
trapper
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,770
east central WI
Good post Kyle!
How many acre of pumpkins you planting? give us a rough idea on profit/acre on selling pumpkins if you don't mind.

My neighbor owns 90 acres, maybe 50-60 is tillable.
He rents out the majority of the tilled but keeps maybe 2-4 acres for pumpkins and sweet corn for direct to consumer sales. He also sells some firewood to local campgrounds and Christmas trees. He just resells the trees. He makes more on the 4 small side business than when he farmed the whole place and the rent is just icing on the cake. Better ways to make money on your land than selling products to someone who is dictating how much they will pay you for it.

Re: rural life today [Re: danny clifton] #7679454
09/26/22 01:31 PM
09/26/22 01:31 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 10,557
Armpit, ak
D
Dirt Offline
trapper
Dirt  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 10,557
Armpit, ak
Certainly counties (boroughs), at least ours does, promotes development in rural areas. So does the State with money. I guess you could consider this a planned destruction. Counties make additional tax revenue with development.


Who is John Galt?
Re: rural life today [Re: Kyle Krebs] #7679463
09/26/22 01:55 PM
09/26/22 01:55 PM
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 7,319
Indiana
P
Providence Farm Offline
trapper
Providence Farm  Offline
trapper
P

Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 7,319
Indiana
Originally Posted by Kyle Krebs
Government subsidies are available to all farms regardless of size. Infact they are capped so big operation don't get paid on every acre. I don't agree with them but they are a fact of business. I know you guys think I'm just a crazy kid and you might be right but we actually do sell raw milk( cow shares in ND) beef and garden produce off it place direct. We also have a small pumpkin patch every fall. ( Sold over 5000 dollars in pumpkin last weekend) I don't agree with the regulations but again play by rules or change them. Unlike most of you I have had very long talks with ND ag inspector about these very topics. He doesn't like me! I have talked to congressman trying to get laws changed ( it's not easy) and this is at local level not federal. Rural America under attack? Maybe but ask yourself why some of these regulations are in place to start with. Alot are 50 plus years old and need to be changed. I take pride inwhat I sell and we have very good customers. My point is you can't just blame it on government conspiracy. Probably the biggest threat to agriculture is people buying up land that have no intention of using it for agriculture. And you hit the nail on the head with alot of comments on land getting divided up sold off to highest bidder ECT. Good old American greed!! But don't blame it on big farms or little farms or government conspiracy. We are all to blame one way or another.



Raw milk laws vary by state. We used to be able to sell it as pet milk not for humans but they made that illegal a few years back. I think they also made shares more difficult or illegal also . I'm in Indiana.

I can't sell farm processed beef or pork that has not been inspected but I can sell up to 20k meat chickens. 20,001 they must be inspected. Also that's sold from the farm only. I can't sell then to stores.

Ground closer to town will be split and lotted up most likely. Ground actually hours out is getting bought up by the mega rich(think Gates)

It's building up around me and will only get worse. It bitter sweet. I need to be close to people to direct market and add agratourism to the income stream so the build up is good for business. More people to bring the kids and feed baby goats and buy from the farm stand , more photographers to brink clients out to use the farm for shooting locations, and it's easier for those that want to connect where their food comes from and feel like our farm is infact their farm making very loyal customers to come out and get some dirt under their nails.

Educational programs can make some good income as well.


Play by the rules? Do you feel the same about all laws like say gun restrictions?


Last edited by Providence Farm; 09/26/22 02:06 PM.
Re: rural life today [Re: danny clifton] #7679468
09/26/22 02:03 PM
09/26/22 02:03 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 55
ND
K
Kyle Krebs Offline
trapper
Kyle Krebs  Offline
trapper
K

Joined: May 2013
Posts: 55
ND
We grow bout 4 acres of pumpkin. We have people come out and cut there own. Best year we got up to 20000 I'd say 12 to 15000 average year. They don't cost much to grow. Mostly labor. We probably have 2000 stuck in with out labor costs. I will say that all the pumpkin and direct marketing are sidelines. We do run bout 350 momma cows my parents milk70 to 80 cows and we farm a bit. Mostly grow feed. We made 4500 round bales of hay this year. It has been a good year but just for reference. In our county we are not a big operation but not small either. My parents my 2 sisters and my wife and I are all involved. This is dry land western ND country nobody living on aqaurter of land out here in even the homestead era. We do okay for ourselves.
I don't know if other places but in ND corporate farms are illegal we kept them out at the legislative level. But I have nieghbors farming 20 30000 acres. 700 to 1000 head of cattle isn't uncommon either. The old days of 100 cow herds aren't over but you can't live in them. Partly because of technology. We can do so much today. Front wheel assist loader tractors. Semi trucks . Heck in good hay we can make a bale per minute! That's 12-1400 lbs of hay per minute. Like I said we are all to blame! You want to go back to loose hay or little sqaure bales? Getting stuck with your chained up 2 wheel drive loader tractor trying to feed them? It is just the way it is.

Re: rural life today [Re: danny clifton] #7679475
09/26/22 02:20 PM
09/26/22 02:20 PM
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 7,319
Indiana
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Providence Farm Offline
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Providence Farm  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 7,319
Indiana
Last year we put in a larger pumpkin patch yet it was still very small maybe 1/4 acre as an starter experiment. Talk about Vining. They looked great went to start harvesting a few and discovered groundhog had taken an interest in the patch. Infact moving into the middle of it. They sampled almost everyone of the pumpkins. Just a sampling from each. Two gouges where they raked their teeth down the side. I think we had 6 that were not blemished.

A 220 and 160 rbg took care of 3 groundhogs and one skunk. Sunflowers went in the same area this year. Folks came out to take family portraits. Paid by the half hour.



There are tons of ways to generate income from farming but for the small guy it won't happen with traditional farming.


Anyone interested in small scale farming should check out Poly Facee Farms in Swoops Virginia. That's Joal Salatins. He has a lot of great books and interesting methods that will get you thinking.

I met him twice. Once he was the key note speaker at the mother earth news conference in Topeka Kansas and the primary reason I went . After it was over when I came out of the bathroom with the kids he was standing by the exit waiting for something by himself. He talked to us like old friend for 40 min until the venue kicked us out.

We Also made a trip to his farm for one of his farm tours. I wanted to see all the things he does in his books in person. It was a great trip and once again he proved how genuine and humble he is and it's so apparent how intelligent the man is.

Last edited by Providence Farm; 09/26/22 10:47 PM. Reason: Correct spelling and typos. Didn't want people thinking conman hacked my account.
Re: rural life today [Re: danny clifton] #7679482
09/26/22 02:34 PM
09/26/22 02:34 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 14,387
MN, Land of 10,000 Lakes
T
Trapper7 Offline
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Trapper7  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 14,387
MN, Land of 10,000 Lakes
How true about all of this. The family farm is becoming a thing of the past. Across the pond from me is a corporate farm that milks 1700 cows. They have Latino laborers that they provide housing on site for. They have liquid manure pits. On some windy days the smell is awful.

We have so many deer around my area because most of the hunters are trophy hunters. They don't want to shoot for meat, only looking for something to put on the wall.


Are we living in a time when intelligent people ae silenced so stupid people won't be offended?
Re: rural life today [Re: Trapper7] #7679509
09/26/22 03:33 PM
09/26/22 03:33 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,860
East-Central Wisconsin
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bblwi Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,860
East-Central Wisconsin
It is not nearly the global impacts that are changing rural economies it is capitalism and that is the system we have chosen and champion. We all want it until it impacts the things we want to keep or save and then we want some socialistic intervention to stop the rapid capitalism we see. Rural USa is much easier to change or buy out if you will because the huge wealth and population do not live there. Sure we have large farms that are worth say even a 100 million but it takes it takes 1,000 if farns worth that to equal 1 Bezo or maybe 500 for 1 Musk. The reality is that a lot of the major monies don't come to the rural areas because most extremely wealthy firms and individuals have better places to invest. Not so true right now as they are looking for something stable in the market and land is usually that. Yes prices for rural commodities are high but so are input costs and the margins on farms are narrower now than 10 years ago, 30 years ago, 50 years ago etc. and that makes agriculture production a higher risk proposition. Farm bills do allow production to continue and with food a major export I don't see those subsidies going away soon. They do however become much less of an impact for the income as prices rise. The more corn sells for the less subsidies play a part in the net income of the producer. As prices continue to rise over time subsidies even if they exist will be marginal at best and the narrower the margins are for production the small to medium sized operation loses the most.
As to the zoning etc. You bet it is an issue and even your long time or several generation rural residients of areas realize where their income to manage their towns and counties comes from and they will cater to those with those dollars.

Bryce

Re: rural life today [Re: danny clifton] #7679515
09/26/22 03:47 PM
09/26/22 03:47 PM
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 7,319
Indiana
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Providence Farm Offline
trapper
Providence Farm  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 7,319
Indiana
Be we don't have true capitalism. It's neutered with government regulations, permits, and subsidies.

A free market doesn't push electric cars, sin tax, ect.. down peoples throats. The free market decides the winners and xloosers not the government / corporations.

Re: rural life today [Re: danny clifton] #7679521
09/26/22 03:57 PM
09/26/22 03:57 PM
Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 53
Arkansas
K
kbuck Offline
trapper
kbuck  Offline
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K

Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 53
Arkansas
True capitalism or not, most consumers place a higher value on cheaper food than rural culture staying intact.

I'm glad that lots of small-acreage farmers are finding ways to stay in the game, but I do find it disappointing that much of the American middle class seems to find the ambience of a farm more valuable than the food produced there (e.g., the popularity of agritourism).

Re: rural life today [Re: danny clifton] #7679552
09/26/22 04:51 PM
09/26/22 04:51 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 55
ND
K
Kyle Krebs Offline
trapper
Kyle Krebs  Offline
trapper
K

Joined: May 2013
Posts: 55
ND
I truly know how you all feel. I don't like people all that much.i wish I could move out on a nice ranch away from ever one. But I can't afford to do that so here I am forced to deal with people. I see urban sprawl and have the same feelings as Providence farm stated. I hate to see it but they are also my customers. Most are really good people just getting out of towns. The point I'm making is if you want to farm or ranch the opportunity exist. Might not look like your grandpa's place did but it's not 1890 1930 or 1950 either.
And yes if you want to run a business successfully you have to play by the rules. I mean you can bend them a bit cause that's how business works right? Lol we have a perfect example of the biggest problem in America right in front of us every day. We can't stand together. Big farmer little farmer organic farmer rancher ECT. What if we could all agree on something and went to actually make the laws better. Let's take slaughter in ND Its 1000 poultry it less doesnt need inspection from the farm. But all beef pork does. What if every farmer agreed to stand together and went to the national level and changed the law? Every farmer plus there customers? Think about all the power that is. But here we are divide and conquer!
Gun laws? I live in ND what are those? Lol i don't agree with alot of gun restrictions but I'm not faced with alot of them either. Take the poultry thing if I was butchering chicken would I kill 1005 and not care. You bet. But if I planned on 5000 I'd have to jump thru some hoops. I disagree with it but how can you advertise and run a business like that under the radar

Re: rural life today [Re: danny clifton] #7679627
09/26/22 06:40 PM
09/26/22 06:40 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 28,568
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Offline OP
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Offline OP
"Grumpy Old Man"
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 28,568
williamsburg ks
Food is NOT cheaper. Your just buying it with after tax dollars. Your taxs are paying for it. Its only cheaper if you choose to not work and live in section 8 housing with free health care, food stamps, cash assistance. Just knock your girl friend up every few years. After she hits menopause and your youngest turns 18 sign up for SSI so nothing changes.


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: rural life today [Re: danny clifton] #7679639
09/26/22 07:06 PM
09/26/22 07:06 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 10,557
Armpit, ak
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Dirt Offline
trapper
Dirt  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 10,557
Armpit, ak
Originally Posted by danny clifton
Food is NOT cheaper. Your just buying it with after tax dollars. Your taxs are paying for it. Its only cheaper if you choose to not work and live in section 8 housing with free health care, food stamps, cash assistance. Just knock your girl friend up every few years. After she hits menopause and your youngest turns 18 sign up for SSI so nothing changes.


Only city people would behave in such a fashion. smile


Who is John Galt?
Re: rural life today [Re: danny clifton] #7679695
09/26/22 07:57 PM
09/26/22 07:57 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 27,433
Eastern Shore of Maryland
HobbieTrapper Offline
"Chippendale Trapper"
HobbieTrapper  Offline
"Chippendale Trapper"

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 27,433
Eastern Shore of Maryland
I see farmers around here adjusting. This year I saw a lot less sprayers and more cultivators.

City folks are just visiting here still, nobody is putting down roots.


-Goofy-
Re: rural life today [Re: danny clifton] #7679772
09/26/22 09:36 PM
09/26/22 09:36 PM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 5,945
Kansas
Pawnee Offline
trapper
Pawnee  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 5,945
Kansas
Our county went years in the late 80ís & 90ís with no farm kids moving back. That has changed since but still not enough to keep up with deaths of older farmers and folks going broke, so we continue to grow year after year. We work daylight until dark and plenty of the time earlier than daylight to after dark. The grind goes on and we like other farmers feed the masses.


Everything the left touches it destroys
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