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Re: Auto strike [Re: Guss] #7953249
09/18/23 10:39 AM
09/18/23 10:39 AM
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Armpit, ak
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Dirt Offline
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"Funny no one wants to discuss why companies started offering pensions, health insurance, paid vacations and yearly raises."

During world war 2, the government put a cap on wages, Yes, democrats said the workers could not be paid more money. Businesses started offering healthcare beneefits to get around this law. Now workers think they deserve this. It is a good deal because it avoids income and payroll taxes.


"The birth of employer-provided health insurance
During World War II, the federal government was wary of post-war inflation. The administration wanted to avoid the hyperinflation Germany experienced after World War I, so they instituted wage and price controls to manage the economy.

However, these wage controls didnít sit well with many labor groups, and they threatened to go on strike. In response, the War Labor Board exempted employer-paid health benefits from wage controls and income tax.

This historical accident created a tax advantage that drove enormous demand for employer-provided health insurance plans over the previously more-common individual health insurance. Employers received a 100% tax deduction while the benefits employees received were exempt from federal, state, and city taxation."

Source: People keep.

If you are wrong about health insurance.............


Who is John Galt?
Re: Auto strike [Re: Vinke] #7953250
09/18/23 10:49 AM
09/18/23 10:49 AM
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Indiana
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Indiana
Originally Posted by Vinke
Quote
What skill do you have?Read a tape measure?Haaa Big deal.I can teach anyone with half a brain construction work.In less than a week I can have someone reading prints and doing layouts,,,cutting roofs,all that.And yes,,I have done all that.When I wasn't building 16 story parking garages in Houston,,I was building houses.


Sure,,,

Have that week trained employee use a steel or a mag
Get him on a x or a gannon
Tell him to tile a shower
Trim

tell him here is your project,,,,you are the new project manager

Got my permits for the condominium,,,,,moved in the equipment,,,storm water plan is in place,,,,, set grade stakes,,, what did I miss before I start?


Ok so maybe your worth .25c more. O wait better reduce your healt coverage and increase your cost and deductibles. By 4 x t at while the company is making records profits and bonuses.


Honestly anyone can tile a shower. Takes 30 mins at home depot looking at materials available buy them and tools talk to the 15$ an hour floor person about waht to do and go do it. Simple . That's how I tiled mine turnd out great. Hey need anything built, heavy riging, wielded, fabricated. Tree removed from over your house, water lines installed, dirt work done. Yep I got that. Need an engine put in your car must not be hard my buddies 15 year old put one in a car he bought in less than a day in his gravel drive way.

Everything is easy and simple for some people and the same task will be hard for others. Nope your not special and your probably over paid. I'm ure ther is a Mexican superintendent that can and will do your job for half the pay and no benefit no ot pay needed just wants more houes at strait time pay. Your easily replaced. Don't ever think your not. Now son how does that feel. Now try working 17, 20, 25, years and have someone decide now they are going to change what they agreed to for your retirement, make yout health car cost you 5 k more a year with less coverage so they can get a bigger bonuse.

Re: Auto strike [Re: Dirt] #7953257
09/18/23 10:57 AM
09/18/23 10:57 AM
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Indiana
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Originally Posted by Dirt
"Funny no one wants to discuss why companies started offering pensions, health insurance, paid vacations and yearly raises."

During world war 2, the government put a cap on wages, Yes, democrats said the workers could not be paid more money. Businesses started offering healthcare beneefits to get around this law. Now workers think they deserve this. It is a good deal because it avoids income and payroll taxes.


"The birth of employer-provided health insurance
During World War II, the federal government was wary of post-war inflation. The administration wanted to avoid the hyperinflation Germany experienced after World War I, so they instituted wage and price controls to manage the economy.

However, these wage controls didnít sit well with many labor groups, and they threatened to go on strike. In response, the War Labor Board exempted employer-paid health benefits from wage controls and income tax.

This historical accident created a tax advantage that drove enormous demand for employer-provided health insurance plans over the previously more-common individual health insurance. Employers received a 100% tax deduction while the benefits employees received were exempt from federal, state, and city taxation."

Source: People keep.

If you are wrong about health insurance.............



So the employers didn't offer it as an incentive to attract and retain employees? Regardless of if it were becuse they couldn't do so with wages Becuseof government caps it was why they offered the incentive healt insurance as a work around instead of higher wages.. You made my point for me and dindt realize it and a 2nd point. The 2nd one is anytime goverment gets involved there are unintended negative effects. Jut try to imagine how much better out healt care system would be if not driven by health insurance companies and pharma with a shot of government regulations.

So you think you have me on a single point of 4 stated instead made my point for me. But also illustrated the attempt to use one thing you think I may be wrong on and ingor the other 3 points.

Last edited by Providence Farm; 09/18/23 11:05 AM.
Re: Auto strike [Re: Guss] #7953261
09/18/23 10:59 AM
09/18/23 10:59 AM
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ny
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Originally Posted by Guss
I'm not looking down on the auto workers I just saying they don't have SKILLS! . Everything in front of them the machine turned the truck over ,so no reaching down its easy then where their skill I don't see it,when the plant makes it easy. I also think the big three will go over the border soon if not next year,then what are they to do? Work at Walmart auto!

You work contsruction? HHaaahaaa Mexicans can work circles around you.


the wheels of the gods turn very slowly
Re: Auto strike [Re: Guss] #7953262
09/18/23 11:00 AM
09/18/23 11:00 AM
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rogers city mi.
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True enough Dirt but thru the decades employers used this to counter wage increases saying medical costs have gone up and we are paying into your pension also true Trouble was Pensions did not keep up to rising costs and surviving spouses got 10% of their wage earners pension So employers and union bosses came up with a cost of premium sharing plan and 401k plans which was good in theory if the stock market didn't dump every 10 years and they still said we're sharing the cost in leu of wages I'm not UAW but the shop i worked out of has employees paying 100% of their insurance while still paing the same wages as 20 years ago

Don' have a dog in this hunt but I believe a lot of people on here also complain to the counter clerk about the high price of gas


olden tyred
Re: Auto strike [Re: Guss] #7953266
09/18/23 11:05 AM
09/18/23 11:05 AM
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Communist state of WASHINGTON
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You work contsruction? HHaaahaaa Mexicans can work circles around you.


Under


Were is Bill?
Re: Auto strike [Re: Guss] #7953270
09/18/23 11:09 AM
09/18/23 11:09 AM
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Armpit, ak
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Apparently vacations were offered to increase productivity.


Who is John Galt?
Re: Auto strike [Re: Guss] #7953276
09/18/23 11:15 AM
09/18/23 11:15 AM
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Illinois
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My productivity increases when they say you can leave when jobs done lol

Re: Auto strike [Re: Dirt] #7953285
09/18/23 11:24 AM
09/18/23 11:24 AM
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Indiana
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Originally Posted by Dirt
Apparently vacations were offered to increase productivity.


I have to remind myself not every person has the same abilities and strengths. What a simple connection and been spelled out clearly some can't seem to comprehend. It's not their fault thay just don't have the ability to comprehend or see action reaction.

Yes, it is an incentive. It keeps and retains employees and that increases productivity. People that have a happy healthy family and life outside of work also are happier healthier more productivity employees at work. That means beyond higher retention of experienced employees, you have less burn out, they have a better happier home and family life and less stress. They feel like all the work has a benefit and they have a life outside of work. They are healthier and happier with less stress. So less down time due to illness and just the to (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman) with it I'm calling in and not working today.
Hope that helps.

Seems odd to me this dumb union guy doing a job anyone can do has to explain things so such smart indispensable members of society that can't figure it out and see action reaction when it come so easy to him.

Everyone has there strengths and weaknesses I soupose.

Last edited by Providence Farm; 09/18/23 11:27 AM.
Re: Auto strike [Re: upstateNY] #7953289
09/18/23 11:28 AM
09/18/23 11:28 AM
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james bay frontierOnt.
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Originally Posted by upstateNY
Originally Posted by Guss
I'm not looking down on the auto workers I just saying they don't have SKILLS! . Everything in front of them the machine turned the truck over ,so no reaching down its easy then where their skill I don't see it,when the plant makes it easy. I also think the big three will go over the border soon if not next year,then what are they to do? Work at Walmart auto!

You work contsruction? HHaaahaaa Mexicans can work circles around you.

Mexicans sleep in the middle of the day.
They call it a siesta-translates to lazy.

Last edited by Boco; 09/18/23 11:28 AM.

Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: Auto strike [Re: DRF] #7953295
09/18/23 11:37 AM
09/18/23 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by DRF
My productivity increases when they say you can leave when jobs done lol



You obviously don't work in a 24/7 production operation. You will never get done in some places. The next crew come in. Now on a construction job and you can pick your stopping point for the day once the task is finished your absolutely correct.

And thus is the big disconnect I believe here. Everyone is falling back on their experiences. We'll not every experiences is the same.

A company with 10, 100, 500 employees are not the same . A single plant or few small ones are not the same as a multinational corporation.

A lot of paces I interviewed in the last 6 years thinks they have large operations. Most of them their entire plant will fit inside a single department at my plant. But we have 6k acres 460 acres under roof and our own coal power plant. Not many places are at this scale.

Re: Auto strike [Re: Guss] #7953297
09/18/23 11:39 AM
09/18/23 11:39 AM
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Boco many call it racist. Other uninformed. Infact Toyota I believe "non union had a study on productivity increases if employees got a 30 min nap mid day. Can't remember where I read that paper to link it.

Re: Auto strike [Re: Guss] #7953299
09/18/23 11:40 AM
09/18/23 11:40 AM
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Armpit, ak
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At least we learned why nobody wants to discuss those four things. frown

Last edited by Dirt; 09/18/23 11:42 AM.

Who is John Galt?
Re: Auto strike [Re: Dirt] #7953315
09/18/23 12:32 PM
09/18/23 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Dirt
At least we learned why nobody wants to discuss those four things. frown



Well if I'm snappy I apologize. I get frustrated when being on the receiving end of attacks to my lively hood. Not everyone has the same experiences opertunities and abilities.

I live 127 miles from work and stay down there when working so an gone from home up to 9 days at a time but not normally more than 7. There is very little I can't do. I would love to have a job close to home and be home daily. Home is 35 min from down town louisville KY so xnot a small area. In 6 years of interviews and job offers not a single place came close to matching my pay and benefits package. Including Ford. Now my hourly rate is only $ 28. 24 per hour. But with the scedual and overtime avaliable I cam make over 140k a year if I chose to work it or I can work zero over time and make about 65k. We have 32 hr ot pay a month just working our scedual and I can work 97.3 hrs a week if I want. Insurance is $52 a week with vision and dental for the family. That's an 80/20 1500 a year max per persion 3k max out of pocket per family health insurance plan. We have a .75c on the dollar match on our 401 up to 6% and I have a pension. Absolutely nothing I have been offered comes close and I have it much better than many I know with 4 or more year degrees and the student debt that goes with it.

My plant makes 96 million a year last I saw despite my compensation and the other 100 to 1500 employees here. Ceo get 5 million bonus ect. So the union and labor geting to keep their health care at the same cost and a 4.25% raise won't bankrupt this company. But they want to cut our coverage and increase our cost so they can get a bigger bonus. Then I get uninformed people bashing all unions like they will bankrupt a company
All I can say is they smust love being a slave to their master begging for crumbs. This company will not make that 96 million a year without its work force. That workforce is an organic machine. Like a mechanical machine people need things to operate and function at peak preformance. A machine may need fluid and filter changes and the plant a new roof and that keeps up production and reduces down time. It's easy to see on things mechanical. A bit harder on people but not much when you think about it.

Myself I need a wage/compensation my family cam live on comfortable without struggling and being broke. For many that won't happen no mater how much they make they will just make poor choices and live outside their means. That failure is on them. But I personally feel like a Man should be able to have a single family income and have enough money to have a reliable couple vehicles, modest home, afford a vacation each year, have a healthy savings and 6 month emergency fund or more and save for retirement. That's not going to happen on 40 to 60 k a year pay and 500 a month for health insurance. And that about where 80% of the jobs around louisville pay.

Now I'm willing to work 97 hrs in 6 days, like my job, miss a day of work maybe once every Few years. Brn here over 17 years and likely will be for 13 more before retiring at 57 with a pension, 401 with over a million if history holds, debt free, profitable farm business, and over another million probably closer to 2 In assets especially if land value keeps climbing. I'm not bragging just pointing out that's pretty good for a guy raised by a single mom in government housing untill he was 10. It's mostly hard work and planning and living modesty.like currently driving a 2wd 1997 Ford ranger not a nice new 4x4. But a very big part is my blessing of my union job and opportunity to have such a great job.

So bash the union all you want but the company make a huge profit boss's great bonuses and I get a living wage that enables my wife to stay home and homeschool the kids. I understand if your jealous and if your doing better I'm happy for you good job. When everyone is doing well the whole country benefits. When you have extra money you spend it. The things you buy drive the economy and create jobs. It's a circular flow pattern.

Are unions perfect far from it. Very far from it. But I chose and am great full I have my union job and wish more people had the pay and benefits I have.

I will add it also allows me other benefits like it's hunting season. I'm only going to work 18 days in October and November combined. Starting this weekend it all about taking the boys hunting. Youth deer sat and sun.

I have had 2 other union jobs and several non union. Also run small business . I can tell you I just have an exceptionally good job. The union is a large part of why it's so good.

Reduce the auto workers pay to $15 an hour and no benefits. Through out Ann the problems that would cause do you think for a min the prices would come down to reflect that or would it just be bigger bonuses?



Last edited by Providence Farm; 09/18/23 12:44 PM.
Re: Auto strike [Re: upstateNY] #7953317
09/18/23 12:37 PM
09/18/23 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by upstateNY
Originally Posted by Guss
I'm not looking down on the auto workers I just saying they don't have SKILLS! . Everything in front of them the machine turned the truck over ,so no reaching down its easy then where their skill I don't see it,when the plant makes it easy. I also think the big three will go over the border soon if not next year,then what are they to do? Work at Walmart auto!

You work contsruction? HHaaahaaa Mexicans can work circles around you.

He probably hires Mexicans. Big 3 will start hiring them pretty soon, down in Mexico.

Re: Auto strike [Re: Guss] #7953322
09/18/23 12:51 PM
09/18/23 12:51 PM
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I'll accept the apology. The rest I didn't need.


Who is John Galt?
Re: Auto strike [Re: Dirt] #7953343
09/18/23 01:24 PM
09/18/23 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Dirt
I'll accept the apology. The rest I didn't need.



I thought some prospective other than your own may help with understanding and open your mind a litle. Was worth a shot.

Re: Auto strike [Re: Boco] #7953376
09/18/23 02:00 PM
09/18/23 02:00 PM
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Champaign County, Ohio.
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Originally Posted by Boco
Mexicans sleep in the middle of the day.
They call it a siesta-translates to lazy.


It's to hot to work in the middle of the day in Mexico, so the Mexicans take a nap, to recharge and then work hard when it cools down.

Keith

Re: Auto strike [Re: KeithC] #7953377
09/18/23 02:02 PM
09/18/23 02:02 PM
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Central Oregon
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Originally Posted by KeithC
Originally Posted by Boco
Mexicans sleep in the middle of the day.
They call it a siesta-translates to lazy.


It's to hot to work in the middle of the day in Mexico, so the Mexicans take a nap, to recharge and then work hard when it cools down.

Keith



I do this during elk season when it's too hot , the elk do the same


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Re: Auto strike [Re: Vinke] #7953386
09/18/23 02:10 PM
09/18/23 02:10 PM
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alabama
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Originally Posted by Vinke
Quote
What skill do you have?Read a tape measure?Haaa Big deal.I can teach anyone with half a brain construction work.In less than a week I can have someone reading prints and doing layouts,,,cutting roofs,all that.And yes,,I have done all that.When I wasn't building 16 story parking garages in Houston,,I was building houses.


Sure,,,

Have that week trained employee use a steel or a mag
Get him on a x or a gannon
Tell him to tile a shower
Trim

tell him here is your project,,,,you are the new project manager

Got my permits for the condominium,,,,,moved in the equipment,,,storm water plan is in place,,,,, set grade stakes,,, what did I miss before I start?


This means nothing. I'm sure auto workers could throw out jargon for their job you wouldn't know. I bet there are facets to some of their jobs you would need more than a week to learn.

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