Re: Psalm 82:6-8
[Re: sportsman94]
#8169580
07/10/24 07:17 AM
07/10/24 07:17 AM
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 4,288 Southern Illinois
Foxpaw
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I don't really know what you are looking for here? If it is there are other gods then yes, other wise why would God said have no other gods before me. gods can be a lot of things, money, job, spouse etc, that we put ahead of God. Jesus in His God nature did not die to save any other gods, other wise God himself would no longer exist. Jesus came and died in the flesh for man, to say other wise would be nearing antichrist territory would it not. If you are looking to make a separation that all are Gods' creation but not all are Gods children, but that those calling themselves the children of Abraham could be children of their father the devil? If that is the goal here then where does that start? Are we headed to predestination and double predestination, as in the beginning where some would be predestined to be heaven bound and others would be predestined to the downward place? If that is the case then Thomas Jefferson and Ben Franklin when penning the Declaration of Independence must have got " All men are created equal" wrong, because they obviously wouldn't be equal from the very beginning. I'm sure some would like to change that to fit their agenda.
It seems to me that the separation in Gods' creation between those of the children of God and those of the children of the devil would have developed after creation.
If we are given a free ticket to go on a trip to some great place but lay up the ticket and then when called for "All aboard" never use that ticket. Then it is pretty obvious there is two types of children, those that answered the call and those that didn't.
I have no idea if any of this is even anything like what you are looking for here and if not maybe you can point me in the right direction?
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Re: Psalm 82:6-8
[Re: sportsman94]
#8169664
07/10/24 09:55 AM
07/10/24 09:55 AM
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Joined: May 2016
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Foxpaw
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Foxpaw, I think I’m more trying to hear a discussion from people who think those gods that it is referring to are something other than created spiritual beings. Whether that be Israel or something else. The Bible seems to make a pretty clear distinction between gods (spiritual beings) and gods made by human hands (household gods). Or maybe I’m trying to see if I’m the last one to the party in belief/understanding that there are many gods and in the Old Testament at least these gods ruled over the different nations other than Israel. Elijah and the prophets of Baal had a little match, how did that work out? I see mythological gods just as that a myth. There probably isn't enough room here to even list them. Then when when one gets done with the gods then there is the goddesses. Probably the god that might have the most influence other than God is self, which gets in the way a lot. "Just one way to the gate" is a pretty good song. I sang that one night after a guy got up and said mohammed and buda was all the same god as ours just a different way of expressing it. The preacher at the time was just standing there with his hands in his pockets speechless, lol.
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Re: Psalm 82:6-8
[Re: sportsman94]
#8169766
07/10/24 01:04 PM
07/10/24 01:04 PM
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 206 Flint Hills, KS
jht
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I grew up in a church tradition that read all the passages about other gods in one of two ways. First, other gods are imaginary, i.e. the idols are merely statues that don't represent any real being. Alternatively, and primarily in sermons about such things, other gods are merely metaphors for anything that may have more authority in your life than Yahweh God does. The first view looks like what Foxpaw said. The second looks like where Guss lands. I don't think either of those things are necessarily wrong, but they seem to be a tame version of what the Bible actually says. There are indeed many passages in the Bible that poke fun at idols as being merely wood or stone made with human hands, and placing money or pleasure above God's will is much like idol worship. However, in the Bible's view, idols quite often point to actual beings, and the Bible suggests that worshiping your account balance or physical pleasure may not be that different from worshiping Mamon or Aphrodite. I know it's uncomfortable for a lot of lifelong Christians that haven't heard it discussed before, but it's an idea that is embedded withing the Christian world view and is assumed behind the Bible's words and message. It begins with the creation of heavenly rulers and earthly rulers in Genesis 1 on days 4 and 6, respectively. There are matching earthly and heavenly rebellions in Genesis 3 and 6, respectively, and it goes on and on from there. You can see it in Paul's writings. See 1 Corinthians 8, Ephesians 6, or Colossians 2. It's fascinating, yes, but it is profound as well. Thinking about the state of the world we live in, or the state of my own heart, it is important to see and understand that there are spiritual forces of darkness in the heavenly realms and that they have power here in our world.
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Re: Psalm 82:6-8
[Re: sportsman94]
#8170102
07/10/24 09:40 PM
07/10/24 09:40 PM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 968 Georgia
sportsman94
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You’re right. The second set would be who do you say that the sons of God are in deuteronomy 8? Do you believe that refers to Israel? Heavenly beings? Something else? As for the second one, I should have included one verse back from what I did (1 kings 22:19). It just paints the picture of the divine council and shows that these aren’t just powerless beings to me. Presumably, at least based on what I’m tracking, psalm 82 is the judgement handed down from God for the mismanagement of the nations given to the sons of God based In Deuteronomy 32.
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Re: Psalm 82:6-8
[Re: sportsman94]
#8170279
07/11/24 08:15 AM
07/11/24 08:15 AM
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 206 Flint Hills, KS
jht
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Maybe part of the problem here is just semantics. What we're talking about is the heavenly host. We tend to use the word "angel" nowadays. Technically, the term angel (malakh in Hebrew) defines a role, not necessarily a specific type of being. The word means "messenger". So an angel is just a messenger of God, but there are a whole host of spiritual or heavenly beings, and not all of them are messengers. The Hebrew word used in the OT that denotes spiritual beings, or beings that God created to operate in the heavenly realm is "elohim", and that word means "gods". These "gods" were created by the supreme elohim and are supposed to rule under His authority. Many of them do. However, some of these "gods" are in rebellion against their Creator (just like the earthly beings God created). We might call those that are in rebellion demons or false gods, or we have no problem talking about the leader of the rebellion as the satan.
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