How to make throats for hoopnets. Beyond Pic Heavy

OK so I'be wanted to do this for a while now. Slot of old net makers are gonna be angry I let this out but here we go lol. Basically I'm making a small wire net for mud turtles but I use the exact same method for my full sized turtle nets.
So What you'll need is your needle,twine,net gauge if you use one,and of course a speaker with a good 90's rock mix

So the cage I'm making this off is is pretty small but is for mud turtles so 3' long 2X4 wire.

First thing I do is feed my line through the side of the cage and back out to make loop. I also leave about a 3' tail.

Now we'll start making the beginning loops for our net throat,start on the top line and work left to right. Now I use my hand as a net gauge but you can use a net gauge it you want.







So you wanna do as many of these as you can with them equally spaced. In this net I got eight loops spaced at an 1.5". On my larger nets it's ten at the same spacing with I Lil under a 3" mesh. I'm pretty sure these some math equation for this but I mainly do this off of feel.
One you get to the end of your top line just do a I've hand knit around both lines. This is so you don't have your hole throat sliding to one side or another.


Now one you did that you gotta do the other line. Silly flip your trap around and now the bottom line is the top line .Simply make the same number of loops you made at the same spacing as you did before.


Once you get to this point you take your main line and your tail line and with any good over hand knot tie the two together so you get a loop the same size as the rest.


Now that that's done , you'll flip your trap around and start making the actual meshes with the sheet-bend knot.



Here I like to pinch the bottom of the loop and let the knot form between my fingers .

And I must apologize for the angles and quality as I'm doing this one hand trying to every step lol.
Now the process kinda just goes in a circle. Keep making meshes on this row till you get to the end. Now do to the earth's loops are now you done need to flip the cage. Just keep making messes till you get to the end. Remember if your right handed you work left to right,left handed right to left.
Once you get to the end just over hand knot and kep going they way you'be been.


So once you get to the point it looks like you only need one more row and you'll hit the rim of the cage is when you want to start the process of tying it up.

Now this is where it's all in the feel. Basically your gonna come to the rim of the cage and tie a half hitch then come back up and catch the loop with a sheet bend then back down to another half hitch. Your gonna do this all the way around. Now the touchy part is watching and knowing how much stress to put on each individual knot. Some mesh will have to be long than others so the mouth has the right sized opening. Sorry kind hard to explain lol !


Once you get to the end just over hand and bam your done !

As for the back it's pretty simple if you wanna make a net back. Just half hitch loops all around the rim then do a few rows of meshes and combine them with a draw string. Basically the same as making the throat.


And here we go ! All finished along with a bait cage !

And just so y'all know this method works just as well on larger nets !
Thanks !
God Bless !

Way to go!


Good job wolfdog. Paracord and bright ropes/twine show up well for photos. Glad you posted it...

It's nice to see someone sew a throat up from scatch. I almost always just sew in finished webbing. It's hard to make myself run a shuttle full of string and a row of chains when I can make a lot of throats out of a lb of webbing. Many throats or "flews" as my grandfather called em.


Making them from scratch is an important part of netmaking, but it's just one of the parts of a dying art

thanks that means a ton! I'm hoping to be able to put together a video soon along with ow to do a double finger throat !

Young man you are a hard worker.

Yes he is.

People like you are the kind that will survive no matter what. I'm not sure how durable that bailing twine is, but it's important to remember that sunlight will break down nylon twine rather quickly. Dipping in netcoat will extend the life of webbing, but it's still very important to store it out of the sun. It's not a good feeling to grab a net to set and the throat is rotten. You probably already knew this, but I just thought I'd mention it. It was one of the key points that my grandfather managed to drill into my head.

I've done a little bit of reading about the history of making hoop nets, and I have to say we've come a long ways. Dipping nets with cold dip once a month or once a season is a heck of a lot easier than what they used to do. When I read about people having to use tar on cotton string, perhaps as often as weekly or biweekly, it makes me think of how that process would make the price of fish go through the roof.....

Also, you said that a lot of net makers will probably be mad about you letting the cat out of the bag. I disagree. They know how much work goes into making nets. They know that the majority of people that purchase their nets aren't going to spend the HOURS to make their own. Repairs? Maybe. Making their own nets, especially from scratch? Unlikely. That's part of the reason why it's become a lost art. MANY people knew how to do this. FEW have cared enough to keep it alive. It's something to be proud of.

Again, good job.

Good pics and easy to follow instructions! Good on ya man keep it up.

Aix sponsa , where did you read about this stuff ?

Pieced together from different sources. There just didn't seem to be much that I could find to read, and it wasn't from lack of trying. A little here, and a little there.

I bought this book: http://www.kentuckypress.com/live/title_detail.php?titleid=2630#.V_KlkI-cFPY

This book: Make Nets, Here's How

I also read things online, but the online articles tend to be little snippets of stories.....


A lot of what I've learned have been personal communications.

Also, there are a few members of Tman that were very helpful.

Just have to fish for conversations and PM the ones that you think would be helpful.

Been a while since I picked up a shuttle and twine to make nets. But that young man is a nice bit of work. You should get a spool of net twine though as it will last way longer then that bailing stuff. Even longer if you tar it.

ATB

Michael

I have in the neighborhood of 40 hoop nets I built and didn't sell and 19 gill nets that I took the mesh up so they would pocket better. The first few hoop nets I made, I built the complete net. Then after that I would buy the webbing by the pound and make the cage part, but I knitted every one of the throats by hand.I make what we call a Crows foot throat. I hang them on the second and fourth hoop. If you lay these nets in the right spot, they will catch more fish than you ever want to clean.
I sold fish and hoop nets for many years. The stores in this area was calling my wife the fish lady. That is how we made our living in the summer months. I started fishing right after fur and Ginseng season each spring and would fish up to the 1st of November.
We sold fish and cavier in the spring an fall and sold fish all summer.

Is the crow foot similar to a finger throat ?

I used to think they were two different things, but now I believe they are one and the same.


I also agree with Michael on the twine.

Here's one of the large bets for any one who was curious.

Thanks wolf !!

That's what I call a crowsfoot and a finger throat. I'd like to be corrected if I'm wrong...

Rodger that ! Bout to order some right now along with some new needles ! It's been about two years now since I last goes some and my trusty 7" needle is getting a bit worn lol !

May want to get several. They're cheap, and it's very hard to sew without a shuttle.


I've found that having several with line at a time comes in handy. I'd usually have (2) with #15 twine and (1) with heavier twine for throats and tie offs makes it easier on me. I like sewing with #15 but a lot of people prefer seeing with #9.

The Crows foot throat and a finger throat are the same. I make all my throats and the cage out of #9. I hang my rear throat with a main line of # 12. I also use #12 for the main line going to the 4th hoop. I like #9 because it isn't as heavy as # 15 and also if you use it on the cage part it makes the cage to dark. Be sure to start taking up your mesh once you get to around 6 or full mesh. On my 7th row of full mesh, I start taking up every second mesh, then after I get that done I knit one more row of every second mesh then on the 8th row I start taking up every other mesh. This makes your throats come out pretty small but the nice thing about building the throat the way I build them, they will catch any size fish the enters past the first throat that is hung on the second hoop. The throat looks to small but it will expand easy when a fish enters.
I build my first throat just about the same way but make the throat shorter in length. The throat mainline on the first throat is tied to the 4th hoop. When the first throat is finished it will have a good deal more open type look to it. The idea of this is for the front of the net to look more open and that makes fish enter a lot easier. Once the fish is inside the net between the second a fourth hoop he will automatically start to swim upstream, especially if your net is baited. I prefer cheese bait myself but some folks use cotton seed cake. Cheese will put cotton seed cake to shame when it comes to feeding on the bait sack.
Anytime I catch an eggy fish I will leave her in the net to feed on the Cheese. From the combination of her feeding the cheese bag and having a hormonal fit, it causes your net to load up with catfish.
If your wanting to catch Hyfin, carp or Buffalo, use cotton seed cake, it is the best bait you can get for those particular fish.
I usually use between 5 to 8 pounds of cheese per bait bag.

Now that's some awesome info !!!! I actually attempted to make a finger but it didn't turn out as nice as I hoped. Pretty sure it was because I started taking up my meshes told quickly. I'm gonna have to bug my uncle to get me some remesh so I can keep making nets lol !

Don,

How does my crowsfoot throats I posted compare to yours?

So the trap works ! Not a mud turtle or stink pot but a big old slider ! Kinda surprised he even fit in but after a few pics I let him go.




Went and put one of the big nets in this over grown pond that has a snapper or two in it.

got my first order in today . New "7 looms needle ,a pound of #15 tarred and one of them high speed H needles !


Made a new net with a #15 throat and 2X4 wire. It's pretty flimsy but I'll try it lol.

Very close looking to mine.

Here's some of the nets I made working the sliders over along with some stink pots.

Here's some of the nets I made working the sliders over along with some stink pots.

what size mesh ?

I inch square two inch stretch. That is also for a 2 ft. fiddler net. I start with 59 mesh in the flat out measurement them when I lace it up, it has 60 total mesh around the net. I made these nets a little over 7 ft. long. I of course put a hoop on the very front of the net and then, if I remember correct I put my second hoop at 10 mesh long and third hoop at 10 more mesh long. I hang my first throat on the 2nd hoop and my second throat on the fourth hoop. That is coming from the head of the net. The tail of the net or what is the smaller end faces up stream so the water flows over the net from tail to head.
Understand it has been over 20 years since I built and sold nets and also used my own nets that I would build. I think if I remember correct the amount of mesh was 70 mesh stretch from head to tail. Understand I might be off a little on my figures.
I used fiber glass hoops and would balance all my hoops so the heavy side was always on the bottom of the net that sat on the river bed. If you don't balance your hoops, they will be rolling all around on the river bottom. You want a net to lay flat and straight on the river bed. If a net is constantly moving from side to side, you not catch many fish in the net.
I would always use a set of sharp calipers to get the exact measurement of where my net was laced into my hoops. If you don't keep your hoop lacing in a common pattern, it will also cause a net to walk on the river bottom.
There is a lot more that meets the eye when building a good commercial fishing net. When you do this for a living, you make sure you get your nets built in a good manner. It will mean the difference of catching 10, or 12 catfish to a net or catch a couple hundred to as much as 3 to 400 fish in a single net. I used to only have to run 10 hoop nets and 3 or 4 gill nets for bigger fish to make my days wages.

It's always fun making your own stuff. And everyone knows that Wolfdog likes to make stuff ,and also is creative and hardworking . Nice job dude.
I'd like to say that I've only trapped snappers a few times and that was years ago. So long in fact, I don't even remember what happened to my my hoop nets .
With all that said a good friend of mine stopped by on his way to put out some nets this past summer . And he was showing me the hoops he made. I said "Holy smoke how long did it take you to make those nets on each end" ? He said "not long at all they were basketball nets from Wally World" .
Now as I said before. It's really cool making your own stuff. But I thought it was a neat idea.
BTW,,,these had been used . The staining and mud on the nets was evident. He said they work as good as any he has ever had. This fella is 74 and has been going after snappers for a long time.

Here's my first double finger throat !

Not the best but I think it's a good start !

Don't look to bad!

Excellent post.





Good job Wolf Dog

His you make that Aix ? I've been trying to replicate it but just haven't had any luck

Wolfdog, your pm's are full. WCS has #2 DLS Sleepy Creeks for $117.25 and I think free shipping tomorrow.

My bad its monday

Sang wish I would saw this earlier lol ! Just ordered a dozen dp's ! Well I guess I'll have to put the smack non some coon before Monday lol !

don wolf
Did you ever mess with the concrete remesh nets like the one I made or did you strictly use standard hoops ?

All I ever used was fiberglass hoops. Some people like steel hoops, but they don't fish well. They are much to heavy and fall down in the river if the current drops off much. You must understand that I had to make a living for my family in the off months. I had to have an income when I wasn't buying fur or roots in the summer months. Fishing made me around 800 to 1000 a week from April to November.
I sold spoon bill cavier in early spring and late fall.

When I was a kid, all of Dad's hoop nets had white oak hoops. They fished well.

Sir I'll tell ya your a wealth of info on this subject ! Ever consider writing a book ?

You guys ever make carve your own needles

I did when I started out. Not hard at all but I ended up breaking them all the time

The thought had passed my mind, but don't know if I could stay interested long enough to do such a thing.

Ttt

Up

Ttt

The best way to learn how to build nets is to keep quiet and watch what a hanger is doing. After a while you will be making them.and when you see a net you should start counting and get a copy of the net. A good hanger can then change it up to his likes.

Wolfdog, if you ever get near Evansville Ind. give me a holler. I can show you several nets of different sizes and some Gill Nets I made. Like the man just posted a couple post back, all you need to do is bring a note book and start counting. I will help you understand what your seeing and how many rows of mesh need to be sewn in a row then when and how to take up your mesh so you start reducing the diameter and then how to sew the mesh together and how to make a crows foot throat with all the strings tied to their respective throats and how to lace it all together so it is symmetrical.
Come see me young man, looks like you might be one of the men in this world that wants to carry on the true art of net making.

A lot of valuable information in these posts

My son is about your age and I sure wish he braided his own nets instead of everyone's bull ropes and bronc reigns. Your work areas look compact and neat. His not so much. What he makes don't look that long but when he starts out his crap would go all over the house b/c the individual strands would be 80 to 100 ft. Tripping and tangling in his messes almost made me miss Legos and Lincoln Logs (almost)

So Wolfie, you definitely have some net working skills, I can tell by how you're using your tools and fingers.
I have a couple of questions: Can you make money in your part of the Country by putting those skills into use? Do you catch turtles and whatever else just for you own use, or is there a commercial market for the stuff you catch?
I hope you find a way to capitalize on your skills. I really doubt you would want to move away from your part of the Country, but you might enjoy a season or two checking out some net fisheries in other parts of the Country.
I'm attaching a Youtube video of an interesting fishery that occurs in Washington State, There are only about eight of the Lummi Island Reef netters in existence, a very complicated net fishery, but pretty interesting.
I kind of prefer a higher volume, lower tech fishing like gill netting. Maybe you'd like to visit (work) in the Alaska Bristol Bay fishery for a few weeks some summer, I think you'd really enjoy it.

Honestly I haven't put a ton of thought into making money without net making, like slot of things I do it's something I kind of do for therapy. No commercial market for turtles in my state due to game laws and I d OK my yard access to a good enough water way currently to make money off of fish nor do I have the skills yet. And yes it is on the bucket list to travel around a little and work with some others when it comes to fishing and net making.