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muzzle loading

Posted By: RHuff

muzzle loading - 01/15/18 02:24 PM

I am getting into some older muzzle loading and am hoping to start doing some target shooting this spring and summer. I have a line on a couple of older small caliber guns that I will hopefully get bought soon. I am looking for groups near central Indiana that may host shoots and have a range. And also looking for any T-Man members in my area that may be involved. I have shot some side lock cap and ball and hunt with in line guns but am looking to really do a lot more primitive shooting.

Thanks for any replies
Posted By: GREENCOUNTYPETE

Re: muzzle loading - 01/15/18 02:37 PM

the National Muzzle loading Rifle Association is based out of Friendship Indiana and they host a lot of shoots.

otherwise it is primarily Rondy and club level shoots that I have seen
Posted By: tomahawker

Re: muzzle loading - 01/15/18 02:48 PM

Your thinking right. I started shooting flint years ago and haven't looked back. I use the Log Cabin Shop up in Lodi Ohio for supplies and even a lil knowledge (don't know anyone other flinters). Yes there are many groups in Indiana to get a leg up. After a lot of trial and error the key is to consistently load and prime the same way as exact as possible. Gettin started I simply called Log Cabin shop on the phone and asked for help, they are delightful. Good luck and for gosh sakes keep your powder dry.
Posted By: EdP

Re: muzzle loading - 01/15/18 03:52 PM

Smoke and Fire News is a good resource for event listings.
Posted By: Mike in A-town

Re: muzzle loading - 01/15/18 05:27 PM

Originally Posted By: GREENCOUNTYPETE
the National Muzzle loading Rifle Association is based out of Friendship Indiana and they host a lot of shoots.


This^^^

And concerning flintlocks, if you choose to go in that direction...

There are a lot of production flintlock firearms. Most are serviceable. But generally the more you pay for a flintlock, the better the quality.

Of course there is a point when you are paying more for form than function... Fancy carving, silver wire inlays, and highly figured maple stocks don't make for a better shooting gun. But a quality well-tuned lock fitted in conjunction with a quality barrel will set you back a little bit of coin.

Mike
Posted By: JimO

Re: muzzle loading - 01/15/18 08:02 PM

Rhuff, I am in Linton IN about 2 hours southwest of Tipton. We have a traditional muzzleloading club here called Buck Creek Muzzleloaders. Many of the guys even build guns including flintlocks. My dad started the club in 1976 and it has been going since. Buck Creek is a charter club of the National Muzzleloading Rifle Association and has a monthly shoot here in Linton. The guys there have a passion for the sport and could help you with anything related to it. They would also be very glad to do it. Because I rarely post I am not in the habit of checking my PM’s so if you are interested in phone numbers, shoot dates,directions etc. PM me but you may have to post here again to remind me to check them. I think one of the club members wives setup a Facebook page for the club but not sure because I don’t Facebook. Hope to chat with you sometime.
Posted By: hippie

Re: muzzle loading - 01/15/18 09:28 PM

Pay more attention to the twist of the barrel than how pretty it is or you'll be throwing knuckle-balls.

Round balls need a slow twist and faster for conical bullets,
Figure out the bullet you want to shoot and get a barrel to match.

Have fun, best shooting there is IMO.
Posted By: Buckmark22

Re: muzzle loading - 01/15/18 09:38 PM

Find a used T/C Hawken or Renegade with a 1:48" twist and you can throw patched round balls or minie-balls down range all day. loads of fun and as addicting as trapping!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: muzzle loading - 01/15/18 11:28 PM

If your shooting true black powder, stay away from petroleum oils, solvents, etc. The fowling turns into a tar like nightmare. Clean with hot water and soap like felsnaptha and treat it like a cast iron pan. the more you shoot it and keep it clean the more the barrel will become seasoned. more shots between cleanings, and easer reloading after shots. I use only t/c borebutter for patches and seasoning the barrel. I can shoot about 45 rounds before I have to use a spit patch for range cleaning. I'm shooting a CVA St. Luois Hawken in 50 cal. 1:48 twist. Also have a 54 cal barrel for it. Was a build it yourself kit I bought and built in the early 90's. 1 inch 3 shot groups at 75 yards with open sights.
Posted By: Hawks

Re: muzzle loading - 01/15/18 11:34 PM

If you really want to get into it attend the Dixon Muzzleloader Gunmakers Fair in Kempton Pa. it’s in July and a huge event with thousands attending and some of the finest gunmakers in the country attending and demos.
For the most part if using patched round balls for 50 Cal get a 1-60 or 1-66 twist. Conical usually work well in 1-48. Some barrels will still shoot round balls pretty well in them but you may have to experiment with patch thickness and powder charge.
They are fun to shoot, but be prepared for the cleaning!
Posted By: Nessmuck

Re: muzzle loading - 01/15/18 11:52 PM


Some rock lock porn for yah......Being that your in Indiana.....you should be able to find some primitive shoots for sure
Posted By: Nessmuck

Re: muzzle loading - 01/15/18 11:56 PM


You want a true primitive gun...get yah a Smoothbore flinter ...this one is 62 cal....you can load it as a shot gun....or a patched round ball.....real fun to shoot
Posted By: Nessmuck

Re: muzzle loading - 01/16/18 12:03 AM


These guns are built by David Price...he is about 45 minutes north of me ....I've been to his shop....He is always at gun maker hall at the Friendship Indiana shoot.....would love to own one of his swivel breech flinters....but way out of my league
Posted By: RHuff

Re: muzzle loading - 01/16/18 12:25 AM

Really appreciate advice and love the pics. Starting out with caplocks this year and if I really enjoy it as much as I think I will then a flinter next year. Really wanting to start out hunting some small game so looking at a 32 and a 36 right now. Been shooting an old 45 CVA Kentucky rifle this fall that I gave around 50 dollars for at a garage sale. It had a little rust in the barrel and needs a couple parts replaced but at 50 yards I can shoot about an inch and a half group consistently and now I am spending most of my time shooting it and less time with my other guns.
Posted By: Nessmuck

Re: muzzle loading - 01/16/18 12:31 AM

36 is a sweet cal.....cheap to make round balls.....and 40 grains of FFF to make it bark....
Posted By: coonlove

Re: muzzle loading - 01/16/18 12:52 AM

Connor longrifles antique arms show in Noblesville should be your next step. A lot of high end stuff but worth it to see what's out there.
Seem to recall that Tipton has a gun show also. A place called Deer Creek Products bought all the old CVA parts and they are also in Indiana.
Spring and fall shoot at Friendship, as was mentioned, is the holy grail of muzzleloading. You are in the right place, so get at it ! wink
Posted By: oneoldboot

Re: muzzle loading - 01/16/18 12:58 AM

I usually make my own balls, but usually buy 000 buckshot, it's ~0.35. I use a 0.010 Teflon patch. It has been a good combo.
Posted By: RHuff

Re: muzzle loading - 01/16/18 07:47 PM

Going to look into the shoots at friendship are there vendors or tailgaters there. Wont be competing this year just want to go and see how everything works. Thanks coonlove for the advise on Deer Creek that will help with my old CVA.
Posted By: coonlove

Re: muzzle loading - 01/16/18 09:12 PM

It's been years since I was at Friendship, but yes, there are many vendors there and you don't have to compete. Basically anybody even remotely connected with traditional shooting and living history will be there to show their wares. Registered shooters used to be able to buy Goex out of their underground powder magazine, for 2 bucks a pound................Wow ! I am that old !
Posted By: EdP

Re: muzzle loading - 01/16/18 11:49 PM

36 cal is a squirrel rifle, not legal in most states for deer. The smallest you are likely to find is a .32. Fun to shoot but a bugger to clean. Only good for squirrel and then only if you make a head shot. If you have to make a head shot then caliber doesn't matter so much, so get something you can hunt something other than squirrel with. Check your regs and get something that you can hunt deer with. Most will be .40 or .45. I am a fan of the .50 but also have a .62 rifle and shoot both regularly.

Most club or rendezvous shoots will be reactive targets. That means you have to move a steel target to confirm a hit and a .32 or .36 won't do it consistently. Man up and get a real gun, you don't have to put a lot of powder in it and punish yourself to be effective.
Posted By: RHuff

Re: muzzle loading - 01/17/18 12:21 AM

As of right now I will be purchasing A TC 32 Cherokee A TC 36 Cherokee and a 45 Cherokee barrel from another seller. Will know shortly when deal will take place, I don't mind shooting big calibers just really have a strong interest in the smaller guns and do a lot of small game hunting and target shooting on my own. I am also a fanatical gun cleaner I enjoy and take a lot of pride in keeping my guns looking and shooting good so not worried about cleaning the small calibers. As far as deer I may carry the 45 next fall but I have hunted with a CVA Accura for a few years now. I recently gave it to a young guy who could not afford a muzzle loader and replaced it with the Accura Plains rifle. That gun is going to be used to test loads with Blackhorn 209 powder.
Posted By: Nessmuck

Re: muzzle loading - 01/17/18 12:39 AM

You can shoot a 32-36 for evah ,with a pound of FFF. And when you start making your own balls ......a pot of lead will make a ton of small cal balls....say vs my 62 cal ball...lol
Posted By: RHuff

Re: muzzle loading - 01/17/18 12:44 AM

Not set up for pouring lead yet but have a feeling that will happen eventually.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: muzzle loading - 01/17/18 01:02 AM

You can always "Bark" squirrels with the larger cals. I've taken a number of squirrels with my 50 by shooting under their chin when on a limb or just to the side of their head on a trunk and the wood fragments that explode off the tree have taken them out without any meat damage.
Posted By: oneoldboot

Re: muzzle loading - 01/17/18 01:08 AM

Originally Posted By: Nessmuck
You can shoot a 32-36 for evah ,with a pound of FFF. And when you start making your own balls ......a pot of lead will make a ton of small cal balls....say vs my 62 cal ball...lol


I use a .36 cal offhand most of the time for the above reasons. Why burn extra powder and put more lead down range for paper? I do like the .54 for hunting and shoot some off hand. I primarily shoot heavy bench gun, which is .54 cal.

Lyman great plains is a great factory muzzleloader. Fast lock.
Posted By: swampstomper

Re: muzzle loading - 01/17/18 01:20 AM

I've been hunting with a TC Hawkins 50 caliber for around 47 years now. Down fall to shooting one was cleaning them , that is until I read about a better cleaning solution. All you do is mix 1 part Murthy's soap to 2 parts peroxide and 2 parts alcohol. Then put a tooth pick in the nipple pour cleaner down the barrel,fill it to top , let it sit for a couple minutes . Then pour it out and run 3 or4 cleaning patches down the barrel or until your patches come out clean . There's no water to cause rusting and no oils in it. Been cleaning my guns this way for 30 years now and wouldn't do it any other way. Try it you may like it.
Posted By: Nessmuck

Re: muzzle loading - 01/17/18 01:27 AM

I use windshield washer fluid...cheap enough ! I add 1/2 gallon of water...to a gallon of Cleaner for the summer......and late fall and Wintah....run it straight...no freeze.
Posted By: Nessmuck

Re: muzzle loading - 01/17/18 01:30 AM

I use that mixture for between shots swabbing .....and cleaning too
Posted By: Mike in A-town

Re: muzzle loading - 01/17/18 01:31 AM

My .32 flintlock with a pinned barrel is easier and faster to clean than my .50 caplock with a removable barrel...

Don't buy into all the hype surrounding cleaning. Tepid tap water dissolves fouling just fine. Swab the bore until the patches come out clean. Run a few more to pick up any residual moisture. Then swab the bore with a lightly oiled patch before storing...

Before you head out to shoot again run a patch wetted with rubbing alcohol to remove the oil from the bore.

I use 2 lubes for shooting patched round ball...

Saliva for target shooting.

Track's Mink Tallow for hunting.

Mike
Posted By: Nessmuck

Re: muzzle loading - 01/17/18 04:33 AM


Heres a fifty yard target ....standing off hand...not leaning on anything....NO REAR SIGHT....front blade only...62 cal Smoothbore flinter.......still room for improvement......
Posted By: Mike in A-town

Re: muzzle loading - 01/17/18 09:23 PM

Originally Posted By: Nessmuck

Heres a fifty yard target ....standing off hand...not leaning on anything....NO REAR SIGHT....front blade only...62 cal Smoothbore flinter.......still room for improvement......


Nessy, whether you realize it or not, you have just about talked me into making my next gun a smoothbore flintah!

Lol

Mike
Posted By: BigBob

Re: muzzle loading - 01/17/18 10:07 PM

Can the smaller bore ML's .32/.36 cal's use lead buckshot? Or would you have to have it custom bored to allow for the patch?
Posted By: coonlove

Re: muzzle loading - 01/17/18 10:32 PM

The .32 can utilize a .310 buckshot. Patch and ball combinations are worked out to fit a given bore size instead of the other way around. Someone above said that a .32 is only adequate for head shots on squirrels. At 40-45 grains weight and much bigger diameter than a .22, rest assured that any .32 round ball will kill any tree rat quite dead with any decent hit.
Posted By: Mike in A-town

Re: muzzle loading - 01/17/18 10:47 PM

Originally Posted By: BigBob
Can the smaller bore ML's .32/.36 cal's use lead buckshot? Or would you have to have it custom bored to allow for the patch?


Yes you can Bob. You can buy a bag of #1.5 buck (.310) and it will work for a .32 rifle. (It's dirt cheap!)

There is a small catch though. Most shot has some antimony added to increase hardness. The ball is smaller than the bore, but the patch acts as a transfer to impress the lands of the rifling onto the ball. Anything harder than pure lead can make that a chore when loading. You might even risk breaking your ramrod if the ball/patch combo is too snug.

Mike
Posted By: Mike in A-town

Re: muzzle loading - 01/17/18 10:50 PM

8 lb jar for $38. If my math is right, that's 3 cents a ball.

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/mobile/Super-Buck-Lead-1-1_2-8-lb_jar-310/productinfo/SBK15/

Mike
Posted By: Mike in A-town

Re: muzzle loading - 01/17/18 10:54 PM

Originally Posted By: coonlove
The .32 can utilize a .310 buckshot. Patch and ball combinations are worked out to fit a given bore size instead of the other way around. Someone above said that a .32 is only adequate for head shots on squirrels. At 40-45 grains weight and much bigger diameter than a .22, rest assured that any .32 round ball will kill any tree rat quite dead with any decent hit.


I have successfully taken cottontails with my .32 as well.

You won't get a shot off at every rabbit in a briar patch. Some bolt and run to the horizon. Others hop a few steps a little deeper into the briars... The ones that hop a few steps and freeze end up in the bag.

Mike
Posted By: GREENCOUNTYPETE

Re: muzzle loading - 01/17/18 11:45 PM

I use friendship speed juice , works well and is cheap , 1/3 rubbing alcohol , 1/3 hydrogen peroxide , 1/3 Murphy oil soap mix and store in small opaque spray bottle.
Posted By: Feedinggrounds

Re: muzzle loading - 01/17/18 11:51 PM

Anybody familiar with old auto body lead? I pickup quite a bit at a yard sale, it comes in long skinny bars about 3/4 inch wide by about a foot or so long. I have a Lee bottom pour smelter. I have been using it for fishing weights and jigs, would it be suitable for muzzle loader round or mini balls? Too much tin? I think each bar says "National Lead"
Posted By: Woodsloafer72

Re: muzzle loading - 01/18/18 12:06 AM

Originally Posted By: Feedinggrounds
Anybody familiar with old auto body lead? I pickup quite a bit at a yard sale, it comes in long skinny bars about 3/4 inch wide by about a foot or so long. I have a Lee bottom pour smelter. I have been using it for fishing weights and jigs, would it be suitable for muzzle loader round or mini balls? Too much tin? I think each bar says "National Lead"


Depends on how fussy you are. I just use old wheel weights.
Posted By: GREENCOUNTYPETE

Re: muzzle loading - 01/18/18 12:07 AM

Originally Posted By: Feedinggrounds
Anybody familiar with old auto body lead? I pickup quite a bit at a yard sale, it comes in long skinny bars about 3/4 inch wide by about a foot or so long. I have a Lee bottom pour smelter. I have been using it for fishing weights and jigs, would it be suitable for muzzle loader round or mini balls? Too much tin? I think each bar says "National Lead"


they are not that picky , I have made round balls from water pipe and I know of a very good flintlock shooter who uses nothing but Wheel weight lead for round balls , how it fits down the bore being the same every time , patch thickness and how much pressure it takes to seat it down the barrel matters more than the hardness of the lead unless your trying to run a fat ball and a thin patch.
Posted By: Mike in A-town

Re: muzzle loading - 01/18/18 12:14 AM

Originally Posted By: Feedinggrounds
Anybody familiar with old auto body lead? I pickup quite a bit at a yard sale, it comes in long skinny bars about 3/4 inch wide by about a foot or so long. I have a Lee bottom pour smelter. I have been using it for fishing weights and jigs, would it be suitable for muzzle loader round or mini balls? Too much tin? I think each bar says "National Lead"


Can you scratch it with your thumbnail? That's a pretty good indicator that it'll be soft enough for rifle balls. The main concern is that if it's too hard you'll have a hard time getting it to load as it won't want to compress under the lands of the rifling.

You can use about any mixture in a smoothbore as rifling isn't an issue.

If its too hard there is also the issue that the ball won't deform on impact. You may get a smaller wound channel... Probably not a huge issue with a large caliber. Lol

Mike
Posted By: Nessmuck

Re: muzzle loading - 01/18/18 01:30 AM

Mike in A town......you'll love shooting the Smoothy....it's a whole nuther challenge ....but some guys have a rear sight put on their Smoothbore....thats cheating....just shoot it like it was intended....front blade only. It seems like we all wet our feet with a Cap-lock....then graduate to a Flintah.....then the Ultimate gun....A Smoothbore Flintah. You can load it as a shot gun....or Patched or naked round ball . It's the only gun I grab now,when going to the range.
Posted By: Moosetrot

Re: muzzle loading - 01/18/18 04:15 AM

Great thread!

Moosetrot
Posted By: Woodsloafer72

Re: muzzle loading - 01/18/18 04:44 AM

Originally Posted By: Nessmuck
Mike in A town......you'll love shooting the Smoothy....it's a whole nuther challenge ....but some guys have a rear sight put on their Smoothbore....thats cheating....just shoot it like it was intended....front blade only. It seems like we all wet our feet with a Cap-lock....then graduate to a Flintah.....then the Ultimate gun....A Smoothbore Flintah. You can load it as a shot gun....or Patched or naked round ball . It's the only gun I grab now,when going to the range.


I've even loaded mine with a handful of pea rock a couple of times. Not the best pattern, but it will chew up 1/2 inch plywood at 2o yards. NOT a recommended load! But fun to play with.
Posted By: Mike in A-town

Re: muzzle loading - 01/18/18 04:48 AM

Been kicking around the notion of getting one for a while now. Just haven't 'pulled the trigger' yet. Lol

Mike
Posted By: Woodsloafer72

Re: muzzle loading - 01/18/18 04:51 AM

Since I got my smoothie I use it more than I do my 12 gauge. My cartridge gun gets used mostly for varmits in the livestock, .22 for butchering, and the flinter smoothie for hunting.
Posted By: Nessmuck

Re: muzzle loading - 01/18/18 04:54 AM

Originally Posted By: Woodsloafer72
Since I got my smoothie I use it more than I do my 12 gauge. My cartridge gun gets used mostly for varmits in the livestock, .22 for butchering, and the flinter smoothie for hunting.


What Smoothy and Cal. Do you have ?...any pics ?
Posted By: Mike in A-town

Re: muzzle loading - 01/18/18 04:58 AM

I doubt I'll ever give up my .32, it's just too much fun... A thimble's worth of powder and a pea-sized ball...

But I do like the idea of one gun for anything from quail to elk.

Mike
Posted By: Nessmuck

Re: muzzle loading - 01/18/18 05:01 AM

Originally Posted By: Mike in A-town
I doubt I'll ever give up my .32, it's just too much fun... A thimble's worth of powder and a pea-sized ball...

But I do like the idea of one gun for anything from quail to elk.

Mike


Up here...they say ....Mice to Moose...
Posted By: Woodsloafer72

Re: muzzle loading - 01/18/18 05:03 AM

.62 caliber trade gun. The old gentleman I bought it from said that he got it as a kit from Northstar West in the '70's. I think that would make it one of Curly's earlier kits? She sure shoots sweet. I don't think I have any pictures. Not on the puter, anyhow.
Posted By: Mike in A-town

Re: muzzle loading - 01/18/18 05:11 AM

Originally Posted By: Nessmuck
Originally Posted By: Mike in A-town
I doubt I'll ever give up my .32, it's just too much fun... A thimble's worth of powder and a pea-sized ball...

But I do like the idea of one gun for anything from quail to elk.

Mike


Up here...they say ....Mice to Moose...


Speaking of elk and moose... This past season some guy about 6 or 8 miles west of me killed an elk on his place.

Flipped my lid. Never dreamed we had any around here.

Mike
Posted By: Nessmuck

Re: muzzle loading - 01/18/18 05:11 AM

been making .600 balls for mine,with the old Lee Furnace.....sure does eat up the lead...lol....still playing with the load sequence. Been using 85 grains of FFF...then a card on top of the powder...then a felt wad....then a .010 patch .I can push it in with my thumb.
Posted By: Nessmuck

Re: muzzle loading - 01/18/18 05:14 AM

They have a lottery for Moose up here....but the ticks have been hurting the herd ..big time. I think they only had 75 tickets available last season.No elk around here....
Posted By: Woodsloafer72

Re: muzzle loading - 01/18/18 05:19 AM

Nessie, what brand of mold you using?
Posted By: Mike in A-town

Re: muzzle loading - 01/18/18 05:23 AM

I never even checked into the elk regs until I heard about this guy...

I live in the NE zone... East of I-35/North of I-40. The quota for that area is 20 elk. So if you spot an elk you have to call OKC and ask if the quota for your zone is filled. If not, shoot away.

So we don't have much of a season in this corner of the state. But it is a start.

I'd love to bag a moose too. Lot of meat.

Mike
Posted By: Woodsloafer72

Re: muzzle loading - 01/18/18 05:27 AM

Mike, you ever use that .32 for coon hunting?
Posted By: Nessmuck

Re: muzzle loading - 01/18/18 05:30 AM

Originally Posted By: Woodsloafer72
Nessie, what brand of mold you using?


I'll have to check..can't remember....RCBS or Lyman .
Posted By: Mike in A-town

Re: muzzle loading - 01/18/18 05:32 AM

Originally Posted By: Woodsloafer72
Mike, you ever use that .32 for coon hunting?


You mean with hounds?

Mike
Posted By: Mike in A-town

Re: muzzle loading - 01/18/18 05:33 AM

Nessy, Loafer, either of you guys members on American Longrifles forum?

Mike
Posted By: Nessmuck

Re: muzzle loading - 01/18/18 05:39 AM

Iam on The Muzzloadingforum....Someone already had Nessmuck as a name...I couldn't believe it . Lots a great people on there....and great info too !!....but not as much fun as this place...
Posted By: Mike in A-town

Re: muzzle loading - 01/18/18 05:50 AM

A lot of smoothie shooters and just plain good info on ALR. Some of the members can be a little uptight about some stuff. But all in all a good place for talking front stuffers.

There are some real artists there too. Powderhorns, pouches, accessories. Lot of talented guys there who make a lot of their own stuff.

Check it out sometime.

Mike
Posted By: Woodsloafer72

Re: muzzle loading - 01/18/18 06:39 AM

Originally Posted By: Mike in A-town
Originally Posted By: Woodsloafer72
Mike, you ever use that .32 for coon hunting?


You mean with hounds?

Mike


Yep
Posted By: Woodsloafer72

Re: muzzle loading - 01/18/18 06:41 AM

No. Haven't even thought of looking for muzzleloader forums.
Posted By: Woodsloafer72

Re: muzzle loading - 01/18/18 06:43 AM

Originally Posted By: Nessmuck
Originally Posted By: Woodsloafer72
Nessie, what brand of mold you using?


I'll have to check..can't remember....RCBS or Lyman .


I'm using an old style scissors mold from Track, More work than my Lee molds, but still casts a nice ball.
Posted By: GREENCOUNTYPETE

Re: muzzle loading - 01/18/18 10:11 AM

Track of the wolf has the Lee 6 cavities custom made for them for most sizes , I am running a .490 lee 6 cavity , I like that it leaves a very small spru , really a flat spot rather than a spru that sticks up

I cast for the 4-h kids as well as my self , one of the fathers who does excavation work was able to get me some lead pipe , cut it with an axe over a stump , smelt it and flux it 3 times and made it into ingots , the kids go through a 2 pound coffee can of balls in a day which weighs more like 25 pounds.

so the 6 cavity and the bottom pour pot lets me cast a days worth in about an hour or two

making about 600 round balls , they also burn 3-4 pound of powder sending all those balls down range
Posted By: Feedinggrounds

Re: muzzle loading - 01/18/18 11:06 AM

Originally Posted By: Mike in A-town
Originally Posted By: Feedinggrounds
Anybody familiar with old auto body lead? I pickup quite a bit at a yard sale, it comes in long skinny bars about 3/4 inch wide by about a foot or so long. I have a Lee bottom pour smelter. I have been using it for fishing weights and jigs, would it be suitable for muzzle loader round or mini balls? Too much tin? I think each bar says "National Lead"


Can you scratch it with your thumbnail? That's a pretty good indicator that it'll be soft enough for rifle balls. The main concern is that if it's too hard you'll have a hard time getting it to load as it won't want to compress under the lands of the rifling.

You can use about any mixture in a smoothbore as rifling isn't an issue.

If its too hard there is also the issue that the ball won't deform on impact. You may get a smaller wound channel... Probably not a huge issue with a large caliber. Lol

Mike
yes I can, you can slap your hand with a bar and it bends easily. Great I got at least 80+ lbs. for $10.00
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: muzzle loading - 01/18/18 11:20 AM

Originally Posted By: Feedinggrounds
Anybody familiar with old auto body lead? I pickup quite a bit at a yard sale, it comes in long skinny bars about 3/4 inch wide by about a foot or so long. I have a Lee bottom pour smelter. I have been using it for fishing weights and jigs, would it be suitable for muzzle loader round or mini balls? Too much tin? I think each bar says "National Lead"

That's the stuff you want. It is soft lead. Used to be called white lead. You can use wheel weights but it is hard lead, contains tin, antimony or linotype. They will cast smaller then soft lead when they cool. On mini's the skirts may not flair as much and may not give the gas seal that you need for an accurate load. Ok for round balls as the patch is the seal. Patches vary in thickness for just this reason. Pillow ticking is the most common material used for its uniformity in thickness and tight weave. If you have every done any smokeless reloading toss all that knowledge out the window, black powder is a different animal altogether. You will be dealing with velocities in the higher end air gun range. Many people try to make the comparison of modern inlines to center fire guns and that is still apples to oranges. These smokepoles spit lead slow but hit like a wrecking ball.
Posted By: Mike in A-town

Re: muzzle loading - 01/18/18 04:41 PM

Loafer I've never hunted with hounds in my life. Nothing against it, just never appealed to me.

Mike
Posted By: Mike in A-town

Re: muzzle loading - 01/18/18 04:58 PM

Originally Posted By: GREENCOUNTYPETE
Track of the wolf has the Lee 6 cavities custom made for them for most sizes , I am running a .490 lee 6 cavity , I like that it leaves a very small spru , really a flat spot rather than a spru that sticks up

I cast for the 4-h kids as well as my self , one of the fathers who does excavation work was able to get me some lead pipe , cut it with an axe over a stump , smelt it and flux it 3 times and made it into ingots , the kids go through a 2 pound coffee can of balls in a day which weighs more like 25 pounds.

so the 6 cavity and the bottom pour pot lets me cast a days worth in about an hour or two

making about 600 round balls , they also burn 3-4 pound of powder sending all those balls down range


One of my next projects on the house will be to replace my old sewer line. The main line under the house is 4" cast iron. So as soon as I can get the old stuff out from under the house I will be busting joints to reclaim the lead. Hopefully should be several pounds worth.

Mike
Posted By: RHuff

Re: muzzle loading - 01/18/18 09:40 PM

Thanks guys now I find myself searching online for bullet casting stuff and eyeing a 45 cal TC hawken flint lock And I haven't even got the two original rifles in my hands yet. As a side note I purchased a 5 acre wood lot yesterday a few miles from my home and am going to set up a range on it this spring when weather clears up. My wife and I hope to build a small retirement home there eventually. I really love to shoot and think the traditional muzzle loading will be even more interesting than shooting my modern guns. We are empty nesters and I am home every day around noon so have a lot of extra time for this stuff these days. Appreciate all the info and responses.
Posted By: Mike in A-town

Re: muzzle loading - 01/18/18 09:50 PM

Originally Posted By: RHuff
Thanks guys now I find myself searching online for bullet casting stuff and eyeing a 45 cal TC hawken flint lock And I haven't even got the two original rifles in my hands yet. As a side note I purchased a 5 acre wood lot yesterday a few miles from my home and am going to set up a range on it this spring when weather clears up. My wife and I hope to build a small retirement home there eventually. I really love to shoot and think the traditional muzzle loading will be even more interesting than shooting my modern guns. We are empty nesters and I am home every day around noon so have a lot of extra time for this stuff these days. Appreciate all the info and responses.


Welcome to the dark side! ( evil bellowing laugh )

Mike
Posted By: BigBob

Re: muzzle loading - 01/18/18 09:56 PM

Originally Posted By: Mike in A-town
Originally Posted By: Feedinggrounds
Anybody familiar with old auto body lead? I pickup quite a bit at a yard sale, it comes in long skinny bars about 3/4 inch wide by about a foot or so long. I have a Lee bottom pour smelter. I have been using it for fishing weights and jigs, would it be suitable for muzzle loader round or mini balls? Too much tin? I think each bar says "National Lead"


Can you scratch it with your thumbnail? That's a pretty good indicator that it'll be soft enough for rifle balls. The main concern is that if it's too hard you'll have a hard time getting it to load as it won't want to compress under the lands of the rifling.

You can use about any mixture in a smoothbore as rifling isn't an issue.

If its too hard there is also the issue that the ball won't deform on impact. You may get a smaller wound channel... Probably not a huge issue with a large caliber. Lol Mike


Sounds like you have bars of Babbitt, A hard lead, used for poured machine journal bearings.
Posted By: RHuff

Re: muzzle loading - 01/18/18 10:04 PM

Thanks Mike I am sure to have a ton of questions this spring. I know this will be a wide open question but as far as powders are there any big advantages in Goex, Swiss, Pyrodex, Triple Seven.
Posted By: Mike in A-town

Re: muzzle loading - 01/18/18 10:14 PM

Black powder substitutes don't work worth a hoot in a flintlock... The ignition temperature is too high to reliably ignite from the flash in the pan.

Stick with Goex, Swiss, or Graf's house brand (sorry I can't recall the name )

Everyone says Swiss shoots a little hotter and cleaner... The squirrels haven't mentioned any difference to me.

That's something you can test yourself when you head out to the range.

Mike
Posted By: Mike in A-town

Re: muzzle loading - 01/18/18 11:40 PM

Graf's house brand of powder is made by Wano. Not sure why I couldn't remember that.

Anyway...

I have a pound of it in 3f, but I haven't cracked the cap on it yet. So I can't tell you much about it, other than its $15.99 a pound.

I've heard mixed reviews. Some like it, some don't. Everyone and every gun will have a different opinion of it.

Mike
Posted By: tomahawker

Re: muzzle loading - 01/18/18 11:55 PM

Slo mo flint
Posted By: Nessmuck

Re: muzzle loading - 01/19/18 12:22 AM

Goex for me..
Posted By: oneoldboot

Re: muzzle loading - 01/19/18 01:09 AM

Many shooters at our club use swiss. I have always used goex, which is cheaper.

Consistency is key with muzzleloaders. . .after finding the right patch, ball, and charge. I have one 54 cal that shoots great with denim/ballistol patch and 95 grains. The other 80 grains with pillow ticking. I weigh the balls as well and keep track of what weight I am shooting.
Posted By: Woodsloafer72

Re: muzzle loading - 01/19/18 03:31 AM

I've only used GOEX, as well. Want to try making my own, though.
Posted By: Mike in A-town

Re: muzzle loading - 01/19/18 04:21 AM

It's said that Alder buckthorn makes the best charcoal for gunpowder.

Pretty sure you all have it up in MN.

Mike
Posted By: GREENCOUNTYPETE

Re: muzzle loading - 01/19/18 04:26 AM

I have been buying powder from http://www.addictedtoblackpowder.com/product/ Jon and his wife are good to work with.

if you can find someone to split a case with get a case and don't worry about powder for a while
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: muzzle loading - 01/19/18 10:35 AM

Originally Posted By: Woodsloafer72
I've only used GOEX, as well. Want to try making my own, though.

Same here. Have a big chunk of sulfer from a lake Erie wreck to use. Consistency in seating your projectile is key. I seat until my ram rod will bounce of the ball. Packed tight, old timer showed me this. Sprue up so ram rod would round it over and not deform the ball.
Posted By: Feedinggrounds

Re: muzzle loading - 01/19/18 11:21 AM

Originally Posted By: BigBob
Originally Posted By: Mike in A-town
[quote=Feedinggrounds]Anybody familiar with old auto body lead? I pickup quite a bit at a yard sale, it comes in long skinny bars about 3/4 inch wide by about a foot or so long. I have a Lee bottom pour smelter. I have been using it for fishing weights and jigs, would it be suitable for muzzle loader round or mini balls? Too much tin? I think each bar says "National Lead"



Sounds like you have bars of Babbitt, A hard lead, used for poured machine journal bearings.
No, way to soft for that. It can be scratched with a fingernail, or toothpick for that matter. Guy I got it from was a bodyman and was selling off his dads barnfull of stuff after he passed. He was a bodyman also. When I first seen it I called it plumbers lead and was corrected.
Posted By: Mike in A-town

Re: muzzle loading - 01/19/18 03:36 PM

Originally Posted By: krispcritter
Originally Posted By: Woodsloafer72
I've only used GOEX, as well. Want to try making my own, though.

Same here. Have a big chunk of sulfer from a lake Erie wreck to use. Consistency in seating your projectile is key. I seat until my ram rod will bounce of the ball. Packed tight, old timer showed me this. Sprue up so ram rod would round it over and not deform the ball.


You've got the sulfur. Just need saltpeter and charcoal...

Spectracide stump remover is pure saltpeter.

You just need a good charcoal. Any fast growing softwood will work.

Mike
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: muzzle loading - 01/19/18 04:14 PM

Did not know about the Spectracide. That's good to know. Thanks. Was going to use some of the charcoal from the woodstove when I clean is out. Sift it all to get the good charcoal pieces. Saw a thread someplace on making real lump charcoal. Don't remember if it was here on tman or another sight.
Posted By: Mike in A-town

Re: muzzle loading - 01/19/18 04:30 PM

Hardwood charcoal may not give the best results. It would probably burn, but it might be a slower burn.

Mike
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: muzzle loading - 01/19/18 04:35 PM

Just looked up Spectracide. Yep potassium nitrate. Thanks.
Posted By: hippie

Re: muzzle loading - 01/19/18 05:12 PM

As a last resort would i make my own,(powder) but some purists use their own. But then again, i'm all for accuracy when i shoot.

There's a place called "the gun works emporium" from the west coast where i get custom muzzleloader parts from. Good people to deal with and will make you barrels to your specs.
They have all the parts to make what-ever you want. Check them out if you get addicted! lol
Posted By: hippie

Re: muzzle loading - 01/19/18 05:15 PM

Brought their site up for ya'll

http://www.thegunworks.com/GunIndex.cfm

I've bought custom barrels and locks from them. Good stuff.
Posted By: GREENCOUNTYPETE

Re: muzzle loading - 01/19/18 06:07 PM

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?103852-My-homemade-black-powder

this is a very good tutorial on black powder making at home

basically charcoal and KNO3 is all that is needed
Posted By: tomahawker

Re: muzzle loading - 01/19/18 07:13 PM

For giggles sprinkle a lil in an ash tray at parties. Livens a dull party right up.
Posted By: oneoldboot

Re: muzzle loading - 01/19/18 08:36 PM

Originally Posted By: krispcritter
Originally Posted By: Woodsloafer72
I've only used GOEX, as well. Want to try making my own, though.

Same here. Have a big chunk of sulfer from a lake Erie wreck to use. Consistency in seating your projectile is key. I seat until my ram rod will bounce of the ball. Packed tight, old timer showed me this. Sprue up so ram rod would round it over and not deform the ball.


I use a drill and make a tiny divot in the mold. Sprue up, nipple to the right. Same way every time.
Posted By: RHuff

Re: muzzle loading - 01/19/18 09:20 PM

When you bounce the ramrod off of the ball do you just drop weight of ramrod or slide it down hard. Also what is a swamped barrel.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: muzzle loading - 01/19/18 10:07 PM

After I seat the ball with a long hard push, I bring the rod back up about half the length and give it a wrist flip. You can hear a difference in the sound on the second toss. It will bounce on this one or the next.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: muzzle loading - 01/19/18 10:22 PM

Don/t know about a swamped barrel, but I have swabbed it between long string of shots until I got my barrel seasoned. I can go 30 to 50 rounds before I have to swab it to bring groups back and make loading easer.
Posted By: Woodsloafer72

Re: muzzle loading - 01/20/18 01:30 AM

Originally Posted By: RHuff
Also what is a swamped barrel.


A swamped barrel is thinner in the center and heavier on the ends. Here is a good picture from Track https://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/650/1
Posted By: Nessmuck

Re: muzzle loading - 01/20/18 02:11 AM

Originally Posted By: Woodsloafer72
Originally Posted By: RHuff
Also what is a swamped barrel.


A swamped barrel is thinner in the center and heavier on the ends. Here is a good picture from Track https://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/650/1


It is to reduce weight
Posted By: RHuff

Re: muzzle loading - 01/20/18 05:54 PM

Ok thanks saw several guns advertised with swamped barrels
Posted By: RHuff

Re: muzzle loading - 01/23/18 08:27 PM

Traded for a beautiful 45 Cal TC Cherokee yesterday and got several new boxes of 32, 36 and 45 round balls and a whole bag of shooting accessories for the three calibers. Have plans to buy a 32 Cherokee and a 36 Seneca this weekend and if weather works out will start shooting next week. If anyone on here ever needs any parts to repair an older TC PM me I found a gentleman close buy who the largest TC collection I have ever seen. Thanks for all the info and advice it is greatly appreciated.
Posted By: RHuff

Re: muzzle loading - 02/09/18 05:40 PM

The 45 TC
Posted By: RHuff

Re: muzzle loading - 02/09/18 06:00 PM

A few more Pics


Posted By: RHuff

Re: muzzle loading - 02/09/18 06:02 PM

I picked the other TCs up Yesterday and will post some pics once they are cleaned up and ready to shoot.
Posted By: Nessmuck

Re: muzzle loading - 02/09/18 07:56 PM


Need to make your own balls ....if your going to be a Mountain Man !
Posted By: Nessmuck

Re: muzzle loading - 02/09/18 07:57 PM

Posted By: Nessmuck

Re: muzzle loading - 02/09/18 08:01 PM

Originally Posted By: RHuff
The 45 TC


Nice ...I started out with a Lyman 50cal ..percussion......Then once I got a rock lock...I was hooked...Haven shot a cap gun in 29 years ! You just wait and see....
Posted By: RHuff

Re: muzzle loading - 02/09/18 08:49 PM

I don't have a traditional gun in 50 Cal yet but when do I it will be flint lock. Have been looking into some sources for lead and a small melting pot along with moulds and a ladle. The gentleman I traded for the 45 with threw in several hundred 32, 36, and 45 hornady roundballs so not in a rush yet. Have a pound of 3F triple seven and am looking for some goex and swiss without buying a whole case. Ive got the muzzle loader bug bad. Kevin G on here made me a very good deal on a nice 36 cal Seneca and a 32 Cal Cherokee that is new in the box great guy to deal with.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: muzzle loading - 02/09/18 09:52 PM



they are a hoot to shoot.
Posted By: RHuff

Re: muzzle loading - 02/09/18 11:02 PM

This is the 32 Cherokee and the 36 Seneca that I bought from Kevin G Sorry for all the pics but I just learned how to post them today and I am really happy to own these.





Posted By: Mike in A-town

Re: muzzle loading - 02/09/18 11:44 PM

Nice job. You're hooked now! Lol

Mike
Posted By: Woodsloafer72

Re: muzzle loading - 02/09/18 11:50 PM

Welcome to the dark side! grin
Posted By: Nessmuck

Re: muzzle loading - 02/10/18 12:17 AM

Those in -lines just don't have the Allure for this coffee perking,straight razor shaving , long bow shootn, fur chasing, 67 GTO muscle car driving ,kind of guy.......
Posted By: RHuff

Re: muzzle loading - 02/10/18 09:56 AM

LOL I am slowly manning up Nessmuck
Posted By: Nessmuck

Re: muzzle loading - 02/10/18 02:38 PM

yes ....your Man Card ,will not be revoked .....
Posted By: RHuff

Re: muzzle loading - 02/18/18 11:13 PM




Got a chance to shoot the 32 Cherokee today. 15 grains triple seven .10 prelubed patch and hornady .310 roundball. First time shooting set trigger and had to do some tinkering with it to find out I need a little heavier trigger. Was real happy with the little gun shooting off hand at 25 yards. Gonna keep playing around with loads, patching and powder but I think come August it will be ready for a squirrel hunt.
Posted By: Nessmuck

Re: muzzle loading - 02/18/18 11:39 PM

.010 patch is kinda thin....be nice to be able to load a .015 patch...and you could use more powdah too...30-35 grains ....heck ,I run 70 grains FFF in my 45 cal...she Barks !!
Posted By: Mike in A-town

Re: muzzle loading - 02/18/18 11:47 PM

Nice job.

My Pedersoli .32 is rated for powder loads from 28 to 40 grains. So you can probably bump your powder charge up a bit. If you aren't sure, and you don't have the manual, you can contact TC and they will send you one.

I use .010 patches. They are a tad thin but I have suffered no loss in accuracy... So burn through and blow by apparently aren't an issue. I have some .015 and .020 patches, but I haven't bothered to try them yet simply because I opened the .010 patches first and haven't had any issues with them.

Mike
Posted By: RHuff

Re: muzzle loading - 02/19/18 12:56 AM

Gonna try .015 patches next chance I get going to keep powder charge pretty low for now. Got my start load data from someone with lots of experience with a 32 Cherokee. With a 1 in 30 twist it is designed to shoot a PRB accurately with a light charge. This is going to be a strictly small game inside 35-40 yard gun so don't need a lot of powder unless I cant get a good tight group then I will start bumping it up. May be the most fun I have had shooting in a long time. Put 20 rounds through it only swabbed barrel once just to see if I had any loading or fouling issues but no problems. Cleanup was pretty easy also. The set trigger was an interesting experience it was set very light and I did much better after adjusting it never shot a set trigger before today.
Posted By: mask bandit

Re: muzzle loading - 02/19/18 04:10 AM

Friendship isn't like it use to be , use to be packed with vendors , now there is just a handful. I deer hunt with a flintlock I made 17 years ago.
Posted By: RHuff

Re: muzzle loading - 02/19/18 01:12 PM

Bandit I am hoping to pick up my first flintlock this summer do you have a picture of your build.
Posted By: mask bandit

Re: muzzle loading - 02/19/18 02:09 PM

No I don't , I wish Trapperman had the same type stuff All About Pocket Knives have , when you hit post new topic or reply to topic they have a attachment that you pick that you can take pictures or videos and it will automatically post them , instead of going through something like photo bucket. I just bought the lock , stock and barrel at Friendship then I made the rest.
Posted By: mask bandit

Re: muzzle loading - 02/19/18 02:13 PM

Oh I forgot there is a couple guy's at Friendship that sells guns where the firing range is , then at the primitive side there are few guys that sell also.
Posted By: Range

Re: muzzle loading - 02/19/18 04:01 PM

Nice shootin RHuff. I’ve always wanted a small bore muzzleloader.
Anyone heard how TasteLikeChicken is doing. He used to post beautiful muzzleloaders that he made on here. I hope that his health is good and he’s back at it.
If you talk to the parts guy I am looking for a wood New Englander stock. I broke mine and replaced it with a plastic one I found on eBay. Looks terrible with the black plastic stock but still works as a hunting gun. I see wood ones on eBay but they’re always listed at more than I am willing to spend. Maybe I just shouldn’t be so cheap.
Posted By: RHuff

Re: muzzle loading - 02/20/18 12:22 AM

Range there have been a few New Englander stocks on Gunbroker that were reasonably priced
Posted By: Mike in A-town

Re: muzzle loading - 02/20/18 12:36 AM

Originally Posted By: RHuff
Gonna try .015 patches next chance I get going to keep powder charge pretty low for now. Got my start load data from someone with lots of experience with a 32 Cherokee. With a 1 in 30 twist it is designed to shoot a PRB accurately with a light charge. This is going to be a strictly small game inside 35-40 yard gun so don't need a lot of powder unless I cant get a good tight group then I will start bumping it up. May be the most fun I have had shooting in a long time. Put 20 rounds through it only swabbed barrel once just to see if I had any loading or fouling issues but no problems. Cleanup was pretty easy also. The set trigger was an interesting experience it was set very light and I did much better after adjusting it never shot a set trigger before today.


I didn't realize the Cherokee had such a fast twist... You should indeed do well with low powder charges.

You shouldn't have too many fouling problems using 777. But make very sure you clean it well. Subs are just as corrosive, if not more, than real black powder.

I've read accounts claiming subs will continue to corrode a barrel even after the barrel is cleaned... But I can't verify that.

Subs are easier to obtain, that's for sure.

Mike
Posted By: Range

Re: muzzle loading - 02/20/18 12:36 AM

I will start watching there too. Thanks
I probably shouldn’t mess with it but I just don’t like the black plastic look.
Posted By: RHuff

Re: muzzle loading - 02/21/18 12:20 AM

I scrubbed it real good after shooting and will check it again and make sure she is spotless.
Posted By: fastleo

Re: muzzle loading - 02/21/18 01:33 AM

I have a 32 Cherokee as well. I shoot a .311 ball with a .015 patch. It shoots one hole groups at 25 yards. I also shoot 32 cal t/c maxi balls that weigh 107gr with 30 or 40gr of 3f with the same accuracy. If you pursue the 32 maxi ball route hold out for the real t/c mold. The Lee mold is not the same
Posted By: fastleo

Re: muzzle loading - 02/21/18 01:36 AM

Does your t/c parts guy have front and rear peep sights for a hawken? I also need a breech plug for a 54 cal renegade
Posted By: Mike in A-town

Re: muzzle loading - 02/21/18 01:41 AM

Originally Posted By: RHuff
I scrubbed it real good after shooting and will check it again and make sure she is spotless.


Like I said, I have no way of verifying if the claims about subs continuing to corrode are true...

I honestly think it comes from purists who tend to look down on folks who don't use real black powder. I use black powder in my flints because subs are unreliable with flint ignition. I've shot 777 in my .50 caplock for years without an issue.

But no harm in keeping your smokepole as clean as you can. It will pay dividends.

Mike

Posted By: RHuff

Re: muzzle loading - 02/21/18 11:52 PM

Fastleo I will check with him I know he is starting to sell some stuff off on gunbroker he has a greenmountain replacement barrel for a Renegade that is new with a 1 in 28 twist that would be a good replacement. Ill let you know in the next day or so.
Posted By: fastleo

Re: muzzle loading - 02/24/18 06:47 PM

Thank you sir!!!
Posted By: Don Adams

Re: muzzle loading - 02/25/18 01:15 PM

Tip Curtis sells well built working man's rifles at Friendship - very reasonably priced. 1200 - 1500 - components anymore are close to that cost now and I only see the prices going up.

If you feel up to it - Jim Kibler sells kits that are pretty well ready for assembly. I think they start at 995.00 if you go up in the grade of wood - then is a little higher. He has two different styles available.
Posted By: RHuff

Re: muzzle loading - 02/25/18 11:11 PM


Got to shoot the 32 again today followed advice and used same load but moved up to .015 patch and things tightened up. It was blowing at 18 mph so couldn't find every patch but ones I found were in great shape. Cant wait till good weather so I can shoot it off a bench and get the load completely worked out. Gonna start shooting the 36 next week hopefully, Cant wait to make a trip to Friendship this year and look at a few flintlocks. I am pretty clumsy with wood and tools so probably wont try building a kit unless it super easy.
Posted By: RHuff

Re: muzzle loading - 02/25/18 11:12 PM

Need to buy some life sized squirrel targets.
Posted By: fastleo

Re: muzzle loading - 02/26/18 05:54 AM

If you want to try maxi balls out of the 32 I got some extras. Don’t be shy with the powder either. Max charge is 50gr for a patched rb
Posted By: Mike in A-town

Re: muzzle loading - 02/26/18 06:32 AM

Originally Posted By: RHuff
Need to buy some life sized squirrel targets.


Get some ping pong balls... It'll tune you up for head shots.

Mike
Posted By: Nessmuck

Re: muzzle loading - 02/26/18 01:44 PM

Are you running a wet cleaning patch ....followed buy a dry patch ,in between shots ?...makes loading easier....good shooting ! And you could bump up 5 grains of powder and record your findings .
Posted By: RHuff

Re: muzzle loading - 02/27/18 12:07 AM

Yep swabbing after each shot now going to work on powder also. I like the ping pong idea. Shot the 36 today and learned a lot. couldn't get any group at all using .10 and .15 patches so I used 2 .10 patches and things got way better. So then I doubled my cleaning patch thickness and that helped too. These 2 will be small game only so don't need real high velocity but am going to bump charges up to see what charge shoots tightest group. Fastleo my guy emailed me and has a 15 16thsTC Tang and Tang sight with missing aperature for 75 and a 15 16s Tang and Williams Tang sight for 75 a TC front sight for 15 And a renegade breech plug for 35.
Posted By: RHuff

Re: muzzle loading - 02/27/18 12:10 AM

Any body own a 54 smooth bore I have been told it can be loaded as a 28 shotgun which is my favorite shotgun.
Posted By: Nessmuck

Re: muzzle loading - 02/27/18 12:17 AM

What size ball you using with the 36.? .....instead of doubling your .010 patch.....I would use a bigger ball ( next size up ) and run a .015-.018 patch. Are you using a pre lubed patch or luring them yourself ?
Posted By: Mike in A-town

Re: muzzle loading - 02/27/18 12:28 AM

Are you having problems loading due to fouling?

I'm not sure I understand the necessity of swabbing between shots.

Help me out.

Mike
Posted By: Nessmuck

Re: muzzle loading - 02/27/18 12:58 AM

Originally Posted By: Mike in A-town
Are you having problems loading due to fouling?

I'm not sure I understand the necessity of swabbing between shots.

Help me out.

Mike


All my black powder years...I have worked up loads that included the largest ball and a .015 patch.....and this snug fit has proved to be my best combination for accuracy......and i have to swab in between shots in order to get the load down the barrel without a fight...and that sequence keeps everything the same....and I also pick the nipple or touchhole every shot. The only gun I don't swab in between shots is my 62 cal Smoothbore.....I swab every 4-5 shots....but still playing with that.
Posted By: GREENCOUNTYPETE

Re: muzzle loading - 02/27/18 01:12 AM

swabbing does 3 things ,

1 snuffs out any possible remaining ember
2 makes the next ball just as easy to get down the barrel
3 ensures consistent level of fouling for continued accuracy making the loading and exit resistance the same for every round


1 may only be an issue one in a million times but a woosh in the face of hot gasses and smoke or if your weren't pouring from a measure but a can or flask shrapnel from the bomb that went off in your hand

everything in safe muzzle loading has 2 or more fail safes

barrels were traditionally proofed to 4X a standard load then inspected carfully

if you load ball 1 then ball 2 then 3 then 4 without swabbing right about 4 they get really hard to put down if you don't swap and because of the added resistance your group opens up

so if your making a follow up shot it is one thing but if you set down to shoot for a while it is another to just keep putting ball after ball down



when your sighting in a Muzzle loader every shot that counts will come from a clean cold bore , making the bore clean every time will make your practice that much more meaningful to the round that counts
Posted By: Mike in A-town

Re: muzzle loading - 02/27/18 05:48 AM

I get the embers Pete. I always load a measure of powder from the measure, never the horn/flask... A flashburn is bad enough, I don't cherish the thought of holding a live grenade.

I only swab when loading becomes an issue. Problems with fouling retarding my loading process are an exception, not commonplace.

I shoot a .315/.010 ball/patch combo over 30 grains of black in my .32 flinter. Is my combo too loose? Patch too thin? Maybe. But I haven't noticed a loss in accuracy. I consistently make head shots on squirrels. The accuracy achieved is sufficient for my needs.

Now if a guy runs a tighter ball/patch combo and has to swab between shots... That makes sense, and by all means continue with what works.

I reckon it boils down to what works and what a guy is comfortable with.

I have noticed that when I am having fouling issues while target shooting... I can switch from lubed patches to spit patches and not have to swab. Or not nearly as often.

Of course spit patches aren't recommended for hunting.

Mike
Posted By: Mike in A-town

Re: muzzle loading - 02/27/18 05:50 AM

Nessy, I wanna see that smoothie in action.

Be nice if we could all get together one day and choke some skeeters with sulfur smoke.

Mike
Posted By: GREENCOUNTYPETE

Re: muzzle loading - 02/27/18 01:29 PM

mike I teach youth muzzle loading so we have to keep it very safe.

if your getting good accuracy then you have a good combo the target tells you what to change or keep the same.

if you don't like the gauze feel in your mouth with spit patches 1/3 rubbing alcohol , 1/3 hydrogen peroxide , 1/3 murphy's oil soap mixed and in spray bottle makes a good patch lube , and cleaning solution.

you still need to clean at home but you can swab the barrel with a few patches wetter than normal of this and it loosens up fouling on your trip home where you fully clean

we run this speed juice for all of our wet patches , spray just a little bit on it lightly moist
Posted By: BBarnes

Re: muzzle loading - 02/27/18 05:40 PM

Don't want to hijack a thread by any means, but was wondering if anyone had experience with a Lyman 50 cal. I purchased one a couple years ago and need info on powder, patch and ball size. I would like to keep it traditional if possible.

Your welcome to send me a pm with info.
Thanks
B
Posted By: Mike in A-town

Re: muzzle loading - 02/27/18 06:27 PM

Originally Posted By: GREENCOUNTYPETE
mike I teach youth muzzle loading so we have to keep it very safe.

if your getting good accuracy then you have a good combo the target tells you what to change or keep the same.

if you don't like the gauze feel in your mouth with spit patches 1/3 rubbing alcohol , 1/3 hydrogen peroxide , 1/3 murphy's oil soap mixed and in spray bottle makes a good patch lube , and cleaning solution.

you still need to clean at home but you can swab the barrel with a few patches wetter than normal of this and it loosens up fouling on your trip home where you fully clean

we run this speed juice for all of our wet patches , spray just a little bit on it lightly moist



Larger caliber patches are a little "gross" to wet with saliva... The patches for my .32 are about the diameter of a nickel, no issue for me.

After I take a shot I pop a patch in my mouth while I measure and pour powder. Then lay the wet patch on the muzzle and start a ball.

I also keep a small bottle of T/C #13 cleaner in my shooting bag for field swabbing at the end of a shooting session. I usually save it for when I know I won't head straight home to clean... Saves me a little elbow grease if there is a delay from shooting bench to cleaning bench.

When I get home I flush the bore with tepid tap water until clean. Swab it dry. Then I lightly oil (yes, oil) the bore with gun oil or CLP... Before I head out to the range for my next shooting session I swab the oil out of the bore with rubbing alcohol (I buy the 91% stuff for quick evap) and go shoot. It is a quick simple system that has worked well for me.

.32's have a reputation for being prone to being plagued by fouling. But the system I outlined keeps me shooting.

I guess, in a manner, a spit patch will swab the barrel of some fouling when used on subsequent reloads. So it may be we are all swabbing between shots in different manners. Lol

Thanks for the recipe. I have seen several variations of it for moose milk, etc... I may mix some up after I use up the #13 cleaner... Which as I understand is just Ballistol and water.

Mike
Posted By: Mike in A-town

Re: muzzle loading - 02/27/18 06:28 PM

Originally Posted By: BBarnes
Don't want to hijack a thread by any means, but was wondering if anyone had experience with a Lyman 50 cal. I purchased one a couple years ago and need info on powder, patch and ball size. I would like to keep it traditional if possible.

Your welcome to send me a pm with info.
Thanks
B


.50 cal?

Mike
Posted By: BBarnes

Re: muzzle loading - 02/27/18 06:34 PM

Originally Posted By: Mike in A-town
Originally Posted By: BBarnes
Don't want to hijack a thread by any means, but was wondering if anyone had experience with a Lyman 50 cal. I purchased one a couple years ago and need info on powder, patch and ball size. I would like to keep it traditional if possible.

Your welcome to send me a pm with info.
Thanks
B


.50 cal?

Mike


Yes it a Lyman Great Plains Rifle .50 cal
Posted By: hippie

Re: muzzle loading - 02/27/18 06:46 PM

Originally Posted By: BBarnes
Don't want to hijack a thread by any means, but was wondering if anyone had experience with a Lyman 50 cal. I purchased one a couple years ago and need info on powder, patch and ball size. I would like to keep it traditional if possible.

Your welcome to send me a pm with info.
Thanks
B


Some things i've learned over the years are that every gun is different.
Even guns of the same model may have different size barrels. You'll soon figure out what size patch and ball combo you need when you start shoot your gun.

Most rifles shoot better fouled, just swab with a spit-patch when it gets hard to reload. Clean barrels will more often than not throw a flier.
Posted By: Mike in A-town

Re: muzzle loading - 02/27/18 06:46 PM

The old tried and true recommendation is to start with a measure of powder equivalent to bore diameter...

50 cal = 50 grains of powder (starter load) Shouldn't be an issue starting at 60 grains. My standard load is 70 grains in my 50.

.45 and .50 caliber are the borderline calibers for using 3f and 2f powders. Most use 2f in a 50.

A good start would be a .490 ball over a .015 patch over 60 grains and work up from there.

Are you using real black powder or a substitute?

Mike
Posted By: GREENCOUNTYPETE

Re: muzzle loading - 02/27/18 07:02 PM

Originally Posted By: BBarnes
Don't want to hijack a thread by any means, but was wondering if anyone had experience with a Lyman 50 cal. I purchased one a couple years ago and need info on powder, patch and ball size. I would like to keep it traditional if possible.

Your welcome to send me a pm with info.
Thanks
B


have lyman 50 cals in flint and percusion

general rule of thumb with any muzzle loader is start with as many gains as the caliber 50 cal 50 grains and work up form there for a hunting load or down from there for a target load.

60-75 gr is generally about the right range for a hunting load with a .490 patched round ball

30 gr is generally a nice light target load at 25 yards

I prefer FFFg but FFg is also common for a 50 cal

we use all .490 balls t is easier to have a .490 and a few thicknesses of patches and find the one that gives you good results. .010 .012 .015 pathces and you can fit most anything that calls it 50 cal they vary by a few thousandths from brand to brand of barrel
Posted By: hippie

Re: muzzle loading - 02/27/18 07:14 PM

Exactly guys.

Lyman i believe uses Investarms barrels, as do many companies. I have a Charles Daly with an Investarms, chrome lined barrel.

Point is, they will make a batch for say Lyman, then make a batch for someone else.
Then the next time lyman gets some barrels made, they may be slightly different size.

Good starting points given above, but be prepared to change slightly.
Posted By: BBarnes

Re: muzzle loading - 02/27/18 07:15 PM

Thanks for the info gentlemen I really appreciate it. Made me a list of supplies to pickup.


B
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: muzzle loading - 02/27/18 07:26 PM

I'm running .490 RB, .015 patch and 80 grains of 3f with a CCI #10 cap on a spit fire nipple in my 50 cal. RB's I cast myself, get precut patches and lube with TC Bore Butter 1000.
Posted By: RHuff

Re: muzzle loading - 02/27/18 10:40 PM

My patches are pre lubed and I am swabbing between shots to keep everything fairly consistent shot to shot. I am going to order dry patches from track of the wolf and trying some different lubes. Have talked to several guys who swear that Tracks mink oil lube on patches with swiss powder and the 50th shot will load easier than the first. We will see. I do have some .315 balls that I am going to run through the 32 next chance I get and see if they tighten the group up any. These two little guns are so much fun I honestly don't know whether I will ever shoot the 45 Cherokee as I have no real practical use for it
Posted By: Nessmuck

Re: muzzle loading - 02/28/18 01:24 AM

Originally Posted By: Mike in A-town
Nessy, I wanna see that smoothie in action.

Be nice if we could all get together one day and choke some skeeters with sulfur smoke.

Mike


That would be fun ! Maybe we could all meet at Friendship Indiana one day.....Nevah been there....but it's the Super Bowl of Black Powdah .
Posted By: Nessmuck

Re: muzzle loading - 02/28/18 01:35 AM

Originally Posted By: Mike in A-town
Nessy, I wanna see that smoothie in action.

Be nice if we could all get together one day and choke some skeeters with sulfur smoke.

Mike


I'll have to get my kid ..to make a video of it going off. Right now Iam trying to find some #4 and #5 chilled lead shot for this years Turkey hunt. I have to work up a load..as I have never shot it as a shot gun yet. I have a friend that is a Turkey nut...eats and sleeps for Turkey hunting,and has a little business of his own hand made Turkey calls. I cornered him at his sister in laws wedding last fall....and said I need a bucket list Turkey ! He said I'll take you to my spot.....so I have a guided tour...lol.... I told him I would be using a Smoothbore Flintah ....he said No Way !!....I said Yes Way.....he can't wait......May is Turkey time up here
Posted By: Nessmuck

Re: muzzle loading - 02/28/18 02:57 AM

And I run a .451 ball in my 45 cal...and .015 patch....Green Mountain Barrel
Posted By: Mike in A-town

Re: muzzle loading - 03/01/18 01:08 AM

Originally Posted By: Nessmuck
Originally Posted By: Mike in A-town
Nessy, I wanna see that smoothie in action.

Be nice if we could all get together one day and choke some skeeters with sulfur smoke.

Mike


That would be fun ! Maybe we could all meet at Friendship Indiana one day.....Nevah been there....but it's the Super Bowl of Black Powdah .


I'm game, if I can make my schedule mesh.

Mike
Posted By: Mike in A-town

Re: muzzle loading - 03/01/18 01:09 AM

Originally Posted By: Nessmuck
Originally Posted By: Mike in A-town
Nessy, I wanna see that smoothie in action.

Be nice if we could all get together one day and choke some skeeters with sulfur smoke.

Mike


I'll have to get my kid ..to make a video of it going off. Right now Iam trying to find some #4 and #5 chilled lead shot for this years Turkey hunt. I have to work up a load..as I have never shot it as a shot gun yet. I have a friend that is a Turkey nut...eats and sleeps for Turkey hunting,and has a little business of his own hand made Turkey calls. I cornered him at his sister in laws wedding last fall....and said I need a bucket list Turkey ! He said I'll take you to my spot.....so I have a guided tour...lol.... I told him I would be using a Smoothbore Flintah ....he said No Way !!....I said Yes Way.....he can't wait......May is Turkey time up here


Pics if you nail a gobbler!

Mike
Posted By: Woodsloafer72

Re: muzzle loading - 03/01/18 03:20 AM

Hey Nessy, I might could spare a little #5. How much you need?
Posted By: Nessmuck

Re: muzzle loading - 03/01/18 03:25 AM

Originally Posted By: Woodsloafer72
Hey Nessy, I might could spare a little #5. How much you need?


If I can't find any at the local shops...I'll take you up on it. As I remember,I went to both gun shops last year ,and all they had was 7-8 stuff.
Posted By: Woodsloafer72

Re: muzzle loading - 03/01/18 03:27 AM

No worries. Good luck.
Posted By: Woodsloafer72

Re: muzzle loading - 03/02/18 04:12 AM

I was asked what I use for a turkey load in my smoothie. After I replied I got to thinking that maybe others are curious as well. This was my reply.

I don't have a special turkey load. I've been using a 65 grain powder charge, about 4 overshot cards that I punch out of cereal boxes, homemade wool cushion, another card, and a measure and a quarter or half of shot, with a final card. Closer to 1 measure of shot for lighter, closer game, and 1 and a half for larger, farther game. Real technical here! laugh I have no idea what the shot charge weighs. If I think I need a little more power I'll use a saddle leather over powder card, also homemade. I follow the old adage of less powder, more lead. The few times I've poked this at paper there haven't been any serious holes. The more shot the fewer holes. Never used a chronometer, but it feels like the charge should pack more power using a leather card. It kicks more, so less gasses should be lost. Most of my small game hunting is with mixed shot, anywhere from 9 to 2. Mostly 8 to 6. If I'm hunting turks I'll load strictly with the 5's.

Addendum written for this post

Nothing real technical. I just tried to find how the oldtimers did things, and then played with it a bit until it worked for me. You'll all have to find the loads that work best for you. It also depends on how much money you want to spend. I would rather spend time than money, so I make my own wads and cards. Cereal boxes work great. Heavy leather makes an extremely tight seal. Wool makes an excellent cushion wad that is nonflammable. Wash it in nondetergent soap to get the dirt out. That will leave in the lanolin. You want the lanolin to act as a lube. Old paperwasp nests also make a good cushion, but they can burn. I have also tried making my own shot, but it is a finicky process and time consuming.

These are just the way I do things. I probably break a number of "proper" rules, but it works for me.

Good shooting and keep you powder dry!
Posted By: Woodsloafer72

Re: muzzle loading - 03/02/18 05:08 AM

Originally Posted By: Nessmuck
Originally Posted By: Woodsloafer72
Since I got my smoothie I use it more than I do my 12 gauge. My cartridge gun gets used mostly for varmits in the livestock, .22 for butchering, and the flinter smoothie for hunting.


What Smoothy and Cal. Do you have ?...any pics ?


Was looking through old muzzleloading posts on here and found a pic with it in

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