Companies no longer supporting the NRA

Since they have publicly and proudly made this a matter of policy I will try to not support them when possible:
1. @MetLife
2. @symantec
3. @BestWestern
4. @Wyndham
5. @Alamo
6. @NationalPro
7. @Enterprise
8. @FNBOmaha
9. @Hertz
10. @Budget
11. @Avis
12. @NortonOnline
13. @northAmericanVL
14. @SimpliSafe
15. @ChubbNA#BoycottNRA

Sounds like a list that I'll never do business with! Bottom scum, each and everyone!

A list to print out and post.

I hope I never need to rent a car again!

yes that ist should be passed around and given at every trappers convention,meeting,get together;web-site and hunting activities also

What did the NRA do to deserve this, that they haven't done since the day it was founded?

This is how they got the boy scouts to allow gays..

I thought there were a few airlines as well.

Need to think of BestWestern come convention time.

I heard First National bank was on that list.

number 8

There seems to be alot of similarities between the companies, I wonder who owns these companies.

Add United and Delta to the list. They made statements Saturday.

Well, my thought on these companies that come out and pick a side aren't very smart business thinking. They now have to know it will hurt their business to some degree.

The interesting thing is there has to be hundreds of thousands of democrats that support owning guns and are hunters etc.

That list is incomplete...but it helps Thanks!

I think where ever I go I will ask if they support the nra.

We are losing ground every year and I said it before but it's time we need to pick a day and all of us meet at our state capital buildings and stand up.

It's time we push back and get the message out that the problems are not the guns but the legal system

So Were these companies giving money to the NRA ? Don't think so they were just giving discounts to members. So Go ahead and use another company. Ones that didn't support NRA members to start with ......
You guys have to be gaulded as often as you get your panties in a wad.

Just saying.

Sending in my 5 year renewal tomorrow~ Non-stop on the news today pushing the agenda!

Haven't ever joined the NRA due to if a candidate is pro 2nd he is endorsed no matter his record on other issues. Theoretically a candidate could vote pro 2A but support partial-birth abortion and the NRA would support them.
However with the lefts push to destroy them I am strongly considering joining the club.

Not sure I understand your point.

These businesses whether or not they ever supported the nra is irrelevant if they are going to come out publicly and state they are not supporting the nra than they made their stance clear.

I will not do business with the ones that don't support our amendments.

Man, between this, the NFL, the garbage being strewn on Olympics, my list of things boycotting is rapidly growing.

I'm gonna have to hire an assistant to take care of my list.

People at one time were smart enough to not alienate the available fan/customer base but now today it seems to be the in thing, just look at the statements coming from business and celebrities now that would do better to not flap their traps.

My point is did the NRA receive monies from these companies. It takes money for the NRA to exist. SO if they just say they are not giving discounts to members then they are not "hurting" the NRA per say.
As for not using companies that don't support our "amendments" hope you are going to become self sufficient and live off the grid. Because there are THOUSANDS of co that don't do that. Most liberal owned co, plus many foreign owned don't support the 2nd amendment . Just saying .... (lot of crap from over seas)

here's an artical showing some of the companies still supporting the NRA.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/companies-sticking-by-the-nra_us_5a903e4be4b01e9e56bb57af

They may not have directly donated, but money saved by members will help keep members and donations.

X2

Instead of speaking ill of these companies I sing their praise for coming forth with their opinions. We should encourage more companis to step forward to allow us the pleasure of making informed purchase decisions.

Most of the companies offered discounts to NRA members in return for the members doing business with them it was a win for both, still not sure who the NRA has ever shot. They are just mad the NRA is protecting the 2nd amendment is all it must be.

So you know what they can kiss!

Add Republic Banks, Allied Van Lines, and Paramount Pharm.

Or just treat it like the last one I rented. These light cars "get air" pretty good these days.

Be ready to do your homework...

Wyndham was on there too. The Wyndham "family" encompasses several brand names of hotel/motel chains.

Mike

The democrats have thrown away their old base of working class whites, who were pro-gun, in favor of anti-gun fanatics, minorities, LBGTQs, America haters, illegal immigrants, welfare recipients, food stamp recipients and socialists. The democrats are not the same party they used to be.

Keith

Doesn't the NRA have a friendly business list?

I believe the businesses listed were friendly at one time... They offered discounted rates, points, etc... to NRA members.

Apparently many companies are now backing out of that.

The list will need amending.

Mike

Yep, it falls to the electorate to research the candidates.

Mike

I saw a post on FB just now that said something about the NRA not allowing firearms at their convention.

Quick research obviously showed that, that was incorrect. What the actual case was that the NRA encouraged everyone to lawfully carry. This means in certain venues and locations attendees would not to be able to fully carry because of local laws or venue policy.


When will the NRA finally also boycott firearm hostile locations?

Done that yesterday..

Finding the truth on Facebook anymore is right up there with finding Waldo it can be done but it's not easy!

Oh...and there is also this.... It seems to be a bit hypocritical. Probably didn't have much authority as a candidate to do anything but as president I would think he would.

Heck....a convention of a few thousand well armed supporters seems to be the safest place on Earth.

On Friday, April 28, President Donald Trump will be addressing the crowd at the NRA-ILA Leadership Forum. Because the President is speaking, the United States Secret Service will have tight security around Hall A3 of the Georgia World Congress Center, and attendees will be barred from bringing any weapons, including knives or firearms, into the venue. This is standard procedure, and again, has nothing at all to do with the NRA. This is a Secret Service policy, as it was last year when then-candidate Trump attended last year in Louisville and accepted the NRA’s enthusiastic endorsement.

Yeah...Facebook news is all stupid memes that may or may not be factual.

Thankfully there's enough gun supporters it was pretty easy to find the truth.

FB is the Photoshop of news.

I just emailed 11 companies. Some to complain about them dropping their sponsorship of NRA, but some of my emails were to current NRA sponsors thanking them for their sponsorship and noting that I expect them to maintain their sponsorship (these companies are no doubt hearing from the other side). As a Life Member, my next step is to try to get non members signed up for NRA.

Mind sharing the jist of the email that you sent to supporters?

Well said. Today's democrats are flat out socialists.

People need to realize it was the BE A that introduced background check legislation in the first place..They are not the bad guys

FNB Omaha is losing my account at beginning of business tomorrow morning. Never wanted a Monday to approach so quickly in my life.

I'm trying to figure out what to do with nearly 90K in Delta frequent flyer miles...

you can donate them to charities like the make a wish foundation and others

https://www.delta.com/buygftxfer/displayDonateMiles.action

They murdered all those school children and concert goers. Don't you read or watch the liberal news?

You can't blame the FBI for dropping the ball after receiving numerous tips about the nutjob threatening to shoot up the school. You can't blame the chicken deputy who hit behind a car as the shooting unfolded. You can't blame the other 2 sheriff dept deputies who were there and failed to do anything to engage the shooter. Therefore, it HAD to be the evil NRA.

Wow....that felt good!!!!

It will be the local laws that will undermine the federal laws over time, they always do. Local municipalities can and probably will write more restrictive laws than the federal government will, maybe thousands of them. Many will go to the supreme court and even if the court is conservative it only takes one case in the English Tort law system like we have to change the landscape overnight. If we had a Roman type legal system that would not be the case.
A lot will depend upon how big of an impact the March 24th event will be and have on companies. We have many companies that are driving our food production and distribution system so might they drive other aspects of our lives. Capitalism may work better than we like some times.

Bryce

Sent simply safe a email today stating that I won't be doing business with them for leaving the nra

Well its good to know who is on which side when the shtf.

GA Lt Governor vows no tax breaks for Delta if they boycott the NRA!

I'm no longer supporting the NRA either. The organization that was once about shooting and gun safety is now taken over by fanatics who will support anyone, even a Trump, who mouths the Second Amendment. When my membership lapses the end of this year, I'm gone.

Jim

Just shocked! Guess they think you need a gun to have gun safety! LOL

no time to heat the oil,i'm goin jiffy-pop.

That's OK, I just upped my membership from Life to endowment. That will make up for it.

That seals it for me! If James is quitting Im joining. Jim will likely get a thank-you card.

Trying to introduce politics again?

I have never been a member that I know of, until today!

Still did not hear a real reason kind of like, I'm mad as h&^%$ and I'm not going to do a thing about it. Funny how the Antis think they will dig their heels in and not consider we have been doing that for years and this will be like any other time people will step up again. (Except a few)

I parted company with them years ago after what I felt was an anti law enforcement position against the ATF.
They spent more money trying to get me back than they had ever gotten from the dues I paid.
Some of lapeirre's statements seem to be aimed at raising money through paranoia and divisiveness. And money appears to be the goal above all else.

I suspect here will be talks of some changes to gun laws. Most of the country is demanding that something be done. We are better off if gun owners are represented and not left out of the discussion because of a failure to take part.

Good for you. You just funded Lapierre's million-dollar salary for a few days.

Jim

My mistake.

"According to its latest 990 tax form, LaPierre made $5,110,985 in annual compensation between Jan. 1 to Dec. 31, 2015."

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/nra-ceo-compensation-jump-4-million-article-1.2968552

What you say is not quite true. His annual salary is , and this is a quote,He also saw his salary rise to $1,090,515, and got a $150,000 bonus. So his salary is no what you claim.


National Rifle Association CEO Wayne LaPierre is making a killing.

The gun group leader saw a jump of more than $4 million in compensation between 2014 and 2015, according to a tax form obtained by the Washington Post.

The NRA also saw a spike of $26 million in revenue during that time, shooting its total gross revenue past $336 million, the documents show.

According to its latest 990 tax form, LaPierre made $5,110,985 in annual compensation between Jan. 1 to Dec. 31, 2015.

LUPICA: NRA chief Wayne LaPierre shows he’s a phony patriot
The year before, he made $985,885.

Most of LaPierre’s new cash stockpile came from payout of a $3.7 million retirement plan. He also saw his salary rise to $1,090,515, and got a $150,000 bonus.

“This is an employee funded deferred compensation plan and the $3.7 million distribution to Wayne LaPierre was required by federal law and properly reported,” NRA Executive Vice President Allan Cors said in a statement to the Post.

Orion Pictures
PAID CONTENT BY ORION PICTURES
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The NRA only saw significant drops in its contributions, which fell from $103 million in 2014 to $95 million in 2015.

NRA's Wayne LaPierre joins Trump to push for Supreme Court pick
LaPierre’s loaded compensation is the biggest pay bump he has seen in years. Previous 990 forms show LaPierre's salary hover around $985,000 between 2012 and 2014, rising only several hundred dollars in that time.

The most recent tax forms cover the year before the NRA and LaPierre came under renewed scrutiny as a series of mass shootings besieged America, including attacks in Charleston, San Bernardino and Oregon’s Umpqua Community College. Many of the high-profile shootings led to spikes in gun sales and lobbying.

In 2016, the year of the deadliest mass shooting in modern U.S. history — Omar Mateen’s Pulse nightclub rampage in Orlando — Americans bought 27 million guns, an all-time high for one year.

LaPierre last week cozied up with President Trump at the White House as part of a conservative coalition supporting Trump’s right-leaning Supreme Court pick, Neil Gorsuch

Deferred bonuses and retirement contributions are compensation too, in addition to salary.

$5.1 million.

Jim

If he walked on water to save some of these guys they would just complain that he could not swim! LOL

That is true, but it was a one time compensation. It is OK with me as log as he fights for my Constitutional rights, I am willing to pay my share of the compensation, I believe he deserves
.

If you're genuinely committed to the cause, why do you need more than a million bucks in salary?

HSUS does the same thing, paying almost a million bucks to its CEO (ex-CEO now).

Jim

Can't really answer that, Jim. I guess, sometimes, you can be committed to a cause but yet require, are in need of, a salary to preform. Maybe it seems excessive, but then, I have no idea what the costs of being a defender of the constitution are.

I don't join groups that negotiated compromises on gun rights in the past. It is indicative of future behavior.

If you think he does a lousy job of running the organization, say so.

Don't resort to class envy, it just makes you look whiny and petty.

Mike

What do suppose all those CEOs make in annual compensation. All the dollars that Delta and United cost travelers just this pass year makes Wayne's salary look small. I'm going to pay the NRA and help keep Wayne working, all those others that think they can influence the NRA are wasting their money.

Is there really that much difference in the envy level of one million to five million? If he were paid 1 million he could use the other four to pay legislator off to get a better compromise on the next go round.

Looks like you and Minnesota should of had the NRA on your side along time ago. Apparently you have this website confused with some fishing website, isn't that all Minnesota is good for, except for the Summer Nationals at St. Paul every year.

Those you mentioned are corporations, which survive by providing a service at a profit to shareholders. Not presidents of a non-profit.

The NRA is not different than any other lobby group in Washington, it's the pay to play game. That's why the US has one of the most corrupt governments in the world. By the way, did you see where Hillary took $48,000+ from pro gun groups.

As I said, I'm not a member but I am interested to know if members get a newsletter about upcoming compromises concerning guns or their owners before the general public is privy?

What about Everytown for Gun Safety, Michael Bloomberg and his scams and Gifford and her goonies.

Apparently you do, how are you so wise?

I don't care what the man makes. I would judge him on his performance in relation to that salary.

You've already said you disagree with the performance of the organization and how it's ran...

I got no beef with a principled stance.

But when someone says "He makes $XXX" I usually quit listening... Because it generally translates to, "I don't like him cause he's richer than me."

Mike

I don't care what he makes, either. I do admire the NRA's promotion of gun safety training (as long as it's not government mandated) and the promotion of shooting sports.

Well just keep admiring from afar, The NRA will never get any of your money. I will keep pullin the wagon and you can keep ridin for free, so as you can keep all your principles and such pure.

Riding for free? What u tokkin bout Willis? Are you going to go down the pro-union road with this gun rights idea? Those that aren't in the union are ridin' for free off those who pay dues? If so, I'll walk down that road with you and debate.

OK, If the NRA would change their name to " The united brotherhood of rifle owners" could we get you to join? They could make you honorary "BA" or somethin. They already got the cool shirts and hats and stuff. Probably get your employer to take your dues right outa your paycheck.

But there are other translations. You said yourself that you judge performance in relation to salary. That also means you judge salary in relation to performance. In either event, you're saying, you want to know whether his performance justifies his salary.

We know the salary. It's an objective number. So the question is, how do we judge his performance to know whether he earns his salary?

Jim

I'm too radical for your club, regardless of name change. The history of compromise remains. However, I don't believe your clubhouse dues make you 'pull the wagon' in anyway more effectively than what I am doing. You pull your wagon down the road of compromise. I wont.

There seems to be alot you don’t do or don’t support but i don’t here any real solutions. So without the NRA, do you actually have a legitimate plan that will work to defeat gun control? I’m not talking about you and the five other people who refuse to work with what we have been dealt as far as govt. I’m talking about what will work under the current circumstances and the federal govt. Most people don’t want govt anymore than you do but most accept the fact that it’s not going anywhere.

Reference please

THE very reason I didn't renew my membership. He is overpaid. MONEY MONEY thats the deal. Yes you can quote his salary but his "expense" account is were the big bucks come in. Wonder how many of his members make that. Only difference in the NRA and a cult is no animal sacrifices. LOL

Cult=
multi -generational members
give to the cause( dues)
follow the leader regardless of direction or righteous causes
no changing or compromise of beliefs

did I leave anything out?

When, since we can all admit compromise is name of the game, will the second amendment be watered down enough that it no longer has anything to do with what the Constitution plainly says? And what will YOU do about it then?

I will then park the wagon and you can get out.

No, I can see your final destination from right here. Take your wagon pullin blinders off.

Are you suggesting we lock and load? Don't care much for joining groups for defense and/or compromise of a God given right, but the alternative could get quite messy.

Does anyone else here think that taking extreme positions may blow up in gun-owners' faces?

Lapierre is the wrong face to be showing to the public these days.

Jim

If you watched Lapierres speech at CPAC and didn't say" ah (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman) Yah" at least ten times, I guess you just don't get it. And you probably wont ever. Maybe you should stick to, I dont know, like planned parenthood rallies and such.

I don't expect gun owners have much of a choice but to take an extreme position. The anti side is blaming a group of law abiding gun owners for the actions of a mad man. Now that is an extreme and irrational position.

So these companies can stop doing business with the NRA because they disagree with them . But if a small business refuses to make a cake for someone they lose their business and everything they've worked hard for ............

I understand they just stopped the discounts, not blocking nra members from doing business.

The Great State of Georgia told delta today that if they continue to not honor their previous agreements with the NRA they will loose tax breaks....

Like a good republican, holding a little carrot of a tax break to influence behavior between two private entities. Then scream when a Democrat holds his little carrot out to influence behavior. Two peas in a pod driving this country into the ground. It's like they can't help it.

I am all for giving carrots to influence behavior in a manner that I agree with.....

You are not even sure which wagon you wanta ride in , are ya?

What is your solution? Honestly, you want to bicker and debate but you never suggest any solutions. So let’s hear it?

James said...

"But there are other translations. You said yourself that you judge performance in relation to salary. That also means you judge salary in relation to performance. In either event, you're saying, you want to know whether his performance justifies his salary.

We know the salary. It's an objective number. So the question is, how do we judge his performance to know whether he earns his salary?"

That's fair James.

If you want to discuss his performance I will be willing to have that talk.

But to just throw out his salary as a justification for getting rid of him doesn't sit well.

Mike

CEO's of non profits are judged on revenue, in that regard he is doing quit well.

Well maybe they can boot LaPierre and hire Pacelle. Pacelle might work cheaper.



(Disclaimer: For Pete's sake, I wasn't serious. Don't get bent)

Mike

So who's bent? I thought it was kind of funny.

Pacelle is probably enough of a prostitute to do it, if NRA were dumb enough to ask.

Jim

Mike, I didn't say Lapierre should be fired because of his salary. I just think he should be let go because he's being increasingly seen as a rabid dog to the larger public. Public sentiment has been recently turning toward gun control, his rantings to the contrary.

I just think his salary is pretty high form what he does. Pretty high price for a guy that delivers a few good speeches and hobnobs with lobbyists and politicians.

I'm still waiting for someone to point out how he earns it.

Jim

Ever wonder if that may the point of the whole merry-go round with the people who don't want you to have guns?

Keep the masses in a perpetal state of outrage and or fear (on both sides of an issue) and it greatly increases revenue.

Wayne L has been an incredibly great leader over the decades for NRA. Obviously you have your mind made up about him though.

There have always been folks that reap the rewards and find excuses not to pay their share of the burden!

Is this a government health insurance mandate statement, a closed shop vs. Right to work statement or a gun issue statement?

Just the ones that complain about everything and don't do anything but that, heck a guy can find anything he won't like if he wants to not fork out a few bucks, but can benefit from the ones that do pay. Apply it wherever you want if fits in a lot of places.

Sometimes sarcasm doesn't translate. I figured someone would take my suggestion as literal. Lol

Mike

I know what you meant Jim.

Has LaPierre earned his salary? I guess that's up to the people who pay it.

Some think he's done well. Others don't. I reckon those who are dissatisfied can make it known by taking their dollars elsewhere.

I'm not sure how one would quantify his performance. Perhaps a list of bills/bans defeated by NRA intervention during his tenure?

Mike

Only one of the reasons I’m no longer a member.

When they quit being an organization which supported gun safety and promoting shooting sports I was out. Haven’t given them a dime in years and they will never see any more of my money

Nothing but a gun Worshipping cult now.

I didn't read the whole thread so this may have been posted previously. At least one state is pushing back.

Delta’s tax break may not take flight after Georgia Senate blocks it



The Georgia Senate’s leaders vowed to block a lucrative tax break bill on Monday that would benefit Delta Air Lines after the Atlanta-based company severed ties with the National Rifle Association.

Lt. Gov. Casey Cagle said he would not support tax legislation that helped the airline “unless the company changes its position and fully reinstates its relationship with the NRA.” He echoed a growing number of conservatives who opposed the measure over the weekend.

It came after Delta desperately sought to find neutral ground in a gun debate that has very little, trying to soothe concerns among conservative lawmakers infuriated by the company’s decision to end discounted rates for NRA members in the wake of the mass shooting at a Florida high school.

That move forced Gov. Nathan Deal and other supporters of the $50 million jet fuel sales tax exemption to shift to the defensive, and prompted a growing number of Republicans to try to strip the provision out of a broader tax-cut bill that has already passed the state House.

You NRA non-members just keep rationalizing your decisions (the leadership makes too much money, they send too much mail, it's a cult, blah, blah, blah).

The rest of us will continue to financially support the one organization in this Country that has done more to protect our 2A rights than any other.

Your welcome.

The NRA still supports lots of gun safety programs like the Eddie the Eagle Treehouse and Eddie the Eagle Gunsafe programs for kids and the Carry Guard training classes for adults. They publish their Gun Safety Rules, have tons of hands on and online training courses as well as their National School Shield program.

And they host and support competitive shooting championships across the nation: National High Power Championships at
Camp Atterbury, Indiana, National Conventional Pistol Championships at Camp Perry, Ohio, National Smallbore Rifle Championships at Bristol, Indiana, NRA Bianchi Cup at Columbia, Missouri, Intercollegiate Championships at Fort Benning, Georgia, Black Powder Target Rifle at NRA Whittington Center, Raton, NM...

So tell me lebowski, when exactly do you think they quit supporting gun safety and promoting shooting sports?

Agreed.This is starting to sound like a thread on why trappers won't join their associations.I don't like this,I don't like that.I don't know where their money goes,what have they done for me",yeah yeah yeah.In the meantime,those of us who join pay the bills for those fighting to keep us alive and relevant in todays society.For some people freeloading must be a way of life and a state of mind because it doesn't seem to bother them any.

Won't do anything with them either.

That's shocking.

Tells me I'm on the right track supporting the NRA, these jokes always focus on a small problem (they often create) and ignore the good being done everyday to justify their own causes and agendas. Always complain and switch sides if needed to continue complaining while applying the 1% to the 99%.

Barber shop arguments

The nra is fighting the toughest fight there is to fight protecting our 2nd and the only concern is what the guy is making.

Wow!

Pro athletes get paid way more but with this logic the game should never get watched.

Think about where we would be without the nra on our front lines?

If we lose this battle I bet all the ones whining will still be whining.

Any word on the next class of gun/ gun owner to be sacrificed by NRA since the bump stock compromise didn't seem to turn down the heat?

CNN reports that Wayne LaPierre once had 3 scoops of ice cream!

I have never had an issue with what or how the NRA operates and I have always believed in the reasons, I just wanted to avoid being put on a list that the Government would/will/could use to hunt down gun owners/supporters if it ever came time to actually need the 2A. Sounds Orwellian I know and I don't usually talk about that kind of thing because I am not a tin hat crackpot but I pay attention to all kinds of happenings and it leads me to truly believe that some in our government will do very bad things to change things how they want if they can't do it through the normal channels.

Certain segment of the population will opt out of getting involved if an organization is not EXACTLY aligned with their thinking.

No word but in any battle some things are sacrificed to win the war.

I don't think most of you get what the nra is up against. The movement against guns is growing and it's getting harder to fight.

Truth is the bump stock should of never been put on the market. Anything that pushes the bar closer to being a automatic gun should not be flirted with.

When they are modified in this degree they are than looked at as a dangerous weapon to the public.

They don't bother me but it gives power to the anti.

The 2nd amendment is going to get scrutinized harder than ever and the nra is going to get weaker if we don't help them make a stand.

Which is really our only chance as barber shop arguments does nothing.

Who did not have the same thought when they first seen the bumpstocks operate?

The first time I seen it I knew it would bring scrutiny and now I see it being the killer of our 2nd amendment as we know it.

We are pushing the envelope to far and bringing guns out in a bad way to the public.

Just lets not forget the amount of progress we have made with many States that have improved the CCW requirements or done away with any requirement all together it is always the, "What have you done for me lately" outlook for some and the progress goes unnoticed!

You can bet national carry will be by the wayside now after this, the politicians are folding like a cheap tent they need replacing the next go around!

I have a feeling this time we are going to lose a lot of ground.

Politicians will fold and once something is loss its hard to get back. Look at what Trump is trying to do and what he is up against doing it.

We are losing the battle on the 2nd cause to many people that think they have the answer do nothing.

Our future of the 2nd is in our hands and if we lose it by sitting back doing nothing than we are to blame for losing it for our grand kids

After witnessing how fast bump stocks were sacrificed on the alter of appeasement, it is logical the NRA has ar15's and their owners dangling in front of the bus tire. More grist for the compromise mill.

Again they should never been allowed on the market.

There is no point on the nra to fight for something so damaging to the bigger picture on saving our gun rights.

Is there a list of devices, weapons or persons who the NRA is willing to sacrifice or to just flat out deny the right to support weapon ownership for or does that group fluctuate depending upon political winds?

We are up against the best well-oiled disinformation machine the world has ever seen, they take their key strategies from Hitler's propagandists and have adapted them to current times, combined with the old adage that a lie repeated often enough becomes truth. I work with a group of high school kids on 2nd shift, they had a gun debate last Friday and one of the boys told me how it went, one girl stated that AR15s kill more people than handguns do, one girl said they didn't need armed cops in school because they were too scary and that they would just throw chairs at their attacker and after brining up how many kids/teens were killed by alcohol (4700 average year) or how many babies were killed with abortions they told him this was a gun debate and to stay on topic.

The left's propaganda machine is doing its job and making the truth irrelevant, even with the data being public on the FBI's website they don't care, they just want to gain any kind of ground to edge closer to total disarmament period. We can't lose the 2A because it has a built-in protection clause which we hope will never be needed.

The profit of doom and gloom you know if they are so great get yours now at gunbroker they are still available!

The nra as far as I know have no control on what gets manufactured whether the product is good or bad in the view of the public.

They fight for the 2nd amendment.

They don't fight for individual products that companies make.

Maybe I am wrong.

The bump stock pushed the envelope to far and gave guns a bad image

Are you a member of the NRA Finn?

They seem to be fuzzy on the do not infringe part, if they run things through the filter of public opinion. Though I suppose it is good to test public opinions and member opinions to see what goes bye bye next.

This is a losing attitude, bump stocks were a very rarely seen toy for experienced shooters to be able to mimic full auto and it was never meant to be a combat accessory, it was used in one, very horrific event and everyone including gun owners like you are willing to throw it under the bus "for the greater good" but in truth you just want a better "image" to try and slow the anti's down a bit but that isn't going to work this time, they have smelled the blood in the water because people can't stomach the loss of life for any reason. I can't imagine how people would react today to the 5,000 Americans lost in battle every day during WWII.
(losing children/kids/teens sucks and it should never have happened but you can't stop every killing).

Come on any thug could buy a bump stock!

Any thug can buy any gun he has the money for now, and will be able to even after all the comprising is done.

When I first saw the gimmicks that came out on the market to make a semi seem like a full auto I had a bad feeling on where that could lead.I have nothing against class 3 holders but when I saw a couple of these devices being offered in a Cabela's catalog I wondered how long it would be before we were going to have to either explain or defend them.And after the shooting in Las Vegas I really didn't see a groundswell of support for them from anybody including the NRA.I once saw where a guy took 2 10/22 rugers and reconfigured them into looking like twin barrel browning machine guns.And they worked on the Gatling gun principal,the faster you turned the crank the faster it shot.Yeah, it looked like a lot of fun out at the range,but let one nut turn that weapon on a crowd of people on a busy city street and were going to be in a position of trying to defend that too.I'm not comparing the twin barrel Ruger to a AR-15 because the AR is nothing more than a semi-automatic and contrary to opinion right now has a lot of self defense and sporting purposes.I'm not about to put the whole meaning and purpose of the 2nd amendment on whether or not gimmicks should be legal.

So there is a purity test.

So instead of Uniting...Let the Anti's divide and conquer? Not for me! I cannot fight the fight on a thousand fronts, The NRA has done that for All of us for years. We Need to Support Them especially Now.

Every gun owner should belong to the NRA.Every trapper should support their associations.End of story.

That's it. I'm out.

Bump stocks make for an automatic weapon or full automatic. Full automatic weapons are illegal anyway. So, what's the big deal? Obama would have done a lot more than ban bump stocks.

You are jesting, right?

It will be like it always has been the one that don't support anything will continue to do so for whatever excuse they can make up while criticizing those that are doing something or trying to at least. The one thing for sure they will get the same results they always get.

Those that see the problem will do what they can and make the effort and support the things they love to do.

Politicians will blow in the wind like always as what they believe is not as important as the votes they think they will get the next time around.

The only thing that might happen is some folks will wake up and maybe get motivated to start thinking and maybe do something in the future is the best we can hope for.

An automatic weapon by definition fires multiple rounds per squeeze of the trigger. A bump stock does not turn a semi auto into an automatic, as there is only one round fired per trigger squeeze. Quit being fake news.

Justify your compromise however you may, but facts are facts.

Full auto weapons are legal in about 1/2 of the States the last time I checked under the Class III National Firearms Act stamp system. Go to subguns they have a history there on how it works, Spendy but legal to own with a $200 stamp and a 6 month wait along with $20,000 for the paperwork.

I'm surprised newspapers, television and Internet aren't imposed with the same B.S. fees and tax stamps to produce dangerous free ideas under the 1st amendmemt. I suppose if the 1st amendent were under attack there'd be millions signing up to compromise towards that goal ,as well.

I shouldn't be shocked at what I'm hearing and reading from this thread ut I have to say that I am. Now is not the time to have a public debate on the merits of the NRA. Like the organization or not they are the strongest lobby for all of us to be heard in Washington. They way the antis dig in is by reading the idiotic comments being made on forums like this. The thread didn't ask what your opinion was on the NRA is was simply stating a fact and to inform members. Idiots like James and FlyinFinn put their .02 and turn an informative post into a debate on the merits of the organization. Notice in my post I didn't mention one way or the other whether i support or don't??? Why this thread hasn't been deleted I don't know. Wake up people.

So, you are saying it still only operates with the same efficiency of a semi-auto? Then what's the point in a bump stock?

Full auto weapons are not illegal, you just need deep pockets. All the anti-NRA folks have them with the dues money they have saved.

I'll call the cadence.
HALF STEP, March! Yo left,yo left, right left.

The definition does mention efficiency. It is a matter of mechanicals. However, I'm sure the definition can be changed to include bump stocks or even how fast a human can pull the trigger. This re-definition is right in NRA wheelhouse.

So the same rate of fire but different then a auto? That sounds like semantics so if they say it has the same rate of fire as a auto would that make it a Class III option then?

I didn't come up with the definition. Someone did a long time before I was bornt. But, as I said, by all means re-define it in order to compromise on the back of a fellow gun owner.

I have no problems with bump stock/Sig brace and similar items being illegal.

Then you seem to be in the right place, Marty.

I was curious whether he supported 2A with time and/or money or if he was satisfied to constantly whine, complain and put down the organizations and people that do.

There are some companies who were pulling their NRA support and changing their minds. FedEx for one. The Lt Governor of Georgia said the state will pull some of Delta's tax breaks if they pull their discounts offered to members of the NRA.

I posted a link to that on page four.

Because I don't send dues to Club Compromise does not mean I am not working to support and defend the whole Constitution.
Martys comment is indicative of a lot, 'I don't mind them being run through the ring and sent to the chopping block, as long as I keep mine.' Sooner or later we'll all be in the position of the bump stock enthusiasts. From past experiences, when the time comes, i wouldn't hold out much hope for support.

I never said that but you have at 'interpreting' my words and then putting your 'version' of them out as my comment..

Is my interpretation incorrect?

For me it is not about what I care to own vs do not care to own....the items I mentioned are manufactured to bypass existing laws. So making them illegal is not a problem for me.

I do not own a Glock but I would not favor making Glocks illegal just because I do not/would not own one.

So Flynn, where is the best place to put my money to help protect my rights if the NRA is a no go.

Ammunition.

That's not going to help if you have no guns, and I expected a better answer to a serious question.

I support the repeal of the NFA of 1934, GCA of 1968 and the 1986 one. Why would I align with a group who is going in the opposite direction?

If you don't have guns and want some, buy some of them too.

That's fine, I support that also but what does one do to achieve that. What method do you have in place to achieve that goal. What group or org. can one join to get that done. Wishing and supporting something will not get it done, it takes a voice and money.

This is why trapping organizations are different. Trapping needs a voice and money or it will go away legislatively. The 2nd amendment is a bedrock right, given by God, expressly written to not be monkeyed with (infringed). Sooner or later- by compromise or by legislation or court decree, those who wish to negate what it means will over extend themselves and the situation will self correct back to what was originally written in the amendment.

How are you working to?
Show us the better way.

Ok FlyinFinn, What is out there better than the NRA protecting our 2nd Amendment rights?

I am just worried about all the candidates that will not accept a payoff from the NRA this upcoming election.

I just cancelled my Scheels Visa card and expressed my concern that the bank that they were using was one of the very first to boycott the NRA. hopefully since she said they have been getting other people calling in it'll have an affect.

If you want to change things for the better the plan seems to be do nothing and throw shade wherever you can! I got it now so doing nothing changes everything in the end.

DA what was I thinking.

Dumping a bunch of money into the NRA isn't going to help. The drive by media are portraying NRA members as demons. The children that are attending school now will be voting in a few years and with all the school shooting I am sure most of them will be anti-gun. This seems to be the mass shooting that has turned the tides against law abiding gun owners. Our local Republican representative was on the news this morning saying he was against arming teachers.

Your right Tealbrook.
It's the liberal parents who raised these kids that need to be educated.

Teachers should lock their classroom doors when their class is in session.
I also like the possibility of using National Guard soldiers as armed guards. The original intent of the Guard was to protect the homeland, not to be sent overseas to fight in wars. You would get a lot more men and women joining if they knew they would be staying protecting the homefront.

The same media that portrays us as demons also motivates us as gunowners to step up (well most of us) but like said the future looks grim with the lack of education and motivation from the products of non-parenting.

God help this Country when the enemies comes to do us harm and the next generations are totally clueless and unwilling except for a few to stand up to it.

The problem is that this last shooter was trained by a grant from the NRA. The media is using this as ammo. I believe a lot of Republican candidates will not accept payoffs from the NRA so they will have less pressure to vote pro gun.

Time will tell we all need to do our part is all we can do the NRA always gets the blame anyways 1 guy out of 300 million+ people is far from a pattern!

The "media" hasn't mentioned it on national news.
It seems to be a non-issue except for the 2 times i've read you talking about it. Stirring the pot already?

You are better off sending you contribution directly to the Candidate of your choice.

The grant was for JROTC program. If you are going down that road, you have to throw the JROTC program under the bus as well. Probably a bad idea, which is why the we haven't heard about this since the shooting occurred.

That's exactly what he's doing. Maybe he's looking for his third vacation in a couple of months. Maybe third time will be the charm.

So then you are not actually doing anything other than complaining a lot are you?

SD-cut our cards up too. Sent email to Sheetz asking for cards from different bank. Got reply from fnbomaha saying thanks for feedback?

Please share this evidence you have of the NRA making payoffs to candidates.

Keith

Campaign contributions are nothing more than payoffs.

Starting to picture that creature from Aliens spitting out these new members lately!!

Add Jeni’s ice cream based in ohio that is going to quit using Fedex because Fedex has chosen to stand with the NRA

That's obviously not true. The vast majority of campaign contributions are small amounts of money given to candidates who believe the way the giver does, to help the canidate with the cost of their campaign. Campaign contributions are rarely bribes used to motivate the candidate.

Keith

FedEx moves a lot of guns they would be stupid to jump on the idiot band wagon!

Many of these companies may well be reviewing the total economic impact the firearms industry has on our total economy.
The first link estimates the 2017 GDP which is about 20 trillion dollars
https://www.thebalance.com/u-s-gdp-5-latest-statistics-and-how-to-use-them-3306041

The link below shows the economic impact of the firearms industry in the US

https://www.thebalance.com/u-s-gdp-5-latest-statistics-and-how-to-use-them-3306041

As you can see that is 51 Billion per year and that is huge with the 150k of jobs, But
The companies may be weighing the percentage of the economy attributed to firearms which is about about .5% of the total or half of 1% and if they factor in the longer term demographics they may be making a calculated business decision.

Bryce

I’m surprised the NRA was affiliated with car rental companies at all, considering Hertz and Avis enforce tyrannical rules like "age restrictions" and "having a license."

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt.

Ttt. To see if any word on the latest compromise.

Maybe they'll give a break on shipping ammo.

I would have to say that Jeni's ice cream would have more to lose then FedEx.

Divide and conquer. Double the contributions! Your God given right DEMANDs it!

AWW, Come on Finn, you can do better than that with the guys looking to you for suggestions.

You have a bigger platform here than with the 4 other guys at your Libertarian meets to make a difference if you actually have something better than the NRA that's fighting for guns.

o'k,don't holler at me i'm sensative but--if we give them something=assault weapons=and it doesn't work or help,we have proven our point.if it does stop it,,i guess they were right.

Have you thought about joining the NRA?

life member,now answer the 12 questions asked of you.also life member of pta,not about to sit back and let someone pull my weight.just cause i may not agree with them 100 percent does not mean we don't need eachother,especially right now.hey fin,you for or against non-resident trapping??honest question.

For.

cool,and suprised-no offense.

Can add POTUS to the list.

What list is that Sniper?

The anti-gun list.

Now the Trumpster is saying the guns should have been taken without due process!

Unbelievable!

“I like taking the guns early, like in this crazy man’s case that just took place in Florida ... to go to court would have taken a long time,” Trump said at a meeting with lawmakers on school safety and gun violence.

“Take the guns first, go through due process second,” Trump said.

http://launch.newsinc.com/embed.html?trackingGroup=91690&siteSection=ndn&videoId=33587463

This is the clown the NRA paid $30M to help elect

What else would you expect from a Democrat from New York City?

Hear, hear!

Jim

YES.YES!! HILLARY WOULD BE SO MUCH BETTER!!!

If someone is a legitimate threat to others do you want to tell him to take a time out in the corner for 5 while you coddle a puppy and hope for the best?

Seems like yesterday lots of people were blaming the so and fbi for not doing something prior to the shooting spree.

The forum trolls are high-fiving and doing their happy dances, whooo hooo! James even made a whole separate post about it to garner as much attention as possible.

I watched the entire meeting. While I certainly don't agree with that statement, the one the trolls cherry-picked from the hour-plus-long meeting, there were many other positive points made.

The President talked about hardening schools with trained, armed personnel and eliminating "gun free zones."

He talked about how law enforcement dropped the ball and how that needs to change, authorities need to act on tips not ignore them.

He talked about wanting common-sense ideas that would protect law-abiding gun-owners while keeping guns out of the hands of crazies.

He talked about how modern culture has lessened the value of human life and dignity.

He reminded the room full of senators from both sides of the aisle that he is a big fan of 2A and the NRA.

But you wont hear any of that from the liberal troll crowd...

The forum libs all chiming in. Remember when a Trump told Chucky Schumer how much he liked his comprehensive immigration plan? Until he didn’t ! Yeah, Trump is chumming the waters watching the libs go orgasmic. And here they are shooting their load. So to speak

Once Trump starts giving a little......the Liberals will take a lot. Trump will cave in to make the Liberals happy that seems to be how he operates. He will give away your rights to make his approval ratings rise, he is up for re-election in three years.

Truth hurts you Lug, don't it?

Don't u wish. Brace yourself for the smack down. Trump knows what he's doin u just watch trolls.

You wouldn't know the truth if it bit you in the arse troll.

LOL....he sure does..won't be long till he stabs his supporters in the back with a bayonet.

That is all correct....

Especially the end..

I think The POTUS....President of the United States, Mr. Donald Trump or is that Mr. President?.....is doing a great job.

If you have read his book The Art of the Deal....you would realize that he is dealing. He will not deal away fundamental gun rights or ar-15's...He supports mandatory ccl reciprocity nationwide....including in the no gun cities that protect illegal alien criminals and he is rounding up those criminals by the thousands.

He puts America and Americans First.....openly supports the 2nd....was a ccl holder for many years himself. When campaigning and someone jumped on the stage to threaten him he turned to face the threat and did not cower. Mr. Trump will do great things for this country despite all the people that hate him and hate this Great Nation.

Thank God Mr. Trump stepped up and ran for POTUS or we would be really scared for our gun rights right now because he is the only one who could have beaten the Clinton campaign machine.

God Bless America and Mr. President.....

Trump's never been a strong 2a person, as you were told in the primaries. He's a reactionary on any issue.

I hope doesn't trade our 2a rights to the Libs for money for his wall.

I was told many things in the primaries...like Mr. Trump or is that Mr. President?....did not stand any chance of winning the primaries.

None of that was true as is the claim that you are making.

Nice try, thou....

NRA Life Member here, as well as Life Member of all our related state associations.
If you own a gun, and especially if you own several or more guns, then you just have to financially support the NRA. People like me and other NRA members are hauling around your weight. Get off the horse and lend a hand. Heck, the NRA magazines alone are worth the annual membership cost.
NRA All The Way, Every Day

That is quite an interesting collection of unrelated non-sequiturs you have there.
Trump's sons are keen hunters and passionate defenders of 2nd Amendment rights.
Trump has never before been a politician, and therefore he had scant opportunity or reason to promote or protect the 2nd Amendment. He has been a developer and business man who consistently put America first in every TV and radio interview he did for thirty years. Once he got into policy, like gun rights, he came out swinging on the right side.
We Americans were told all kinds of things about Trump in the primaries, including that he had no chance of winning. None of those things proved true. In fact, the one thing I did not like about him then, that no one talked about then, has come to light now. And although i did not like it then or now, it is tough to find a president who hasn't been a womanizer. But at least Trump did it a while ago, not in the Oval Office. W2 (Bush 2 or W) wasn't one, to his credit. But just about every Dem hero has been a serial cheater in every way, especially JFK. To Trump's credit, in a way, the guy was retirement age when he was running around.
Trump is a reactionary? What does that even mean? Marxists and Communists accuse their political opponents of being "reactionary." Does this mean you are communist? Looking at this from a strategic perspective, do you mean that Trump has no big plan for implementing his agenda, and that all he does is react to external pressure?
That would make zero sense, because all of the evidence demonstrates the opposite: Trump's first year in office has resulted in him implementing about 75% of the campaign promises he made. That isn't reactionary, it is both excellent strategy and perfect tactics.
There are hardly any GOP establishment people who would be standing up for the 2nd Amendment right now. They all fold as soon as the Dem Media aka "the press" criticizes them. Trump is one tough advocate for our rights. Give the man credit.

Are you serious? The guy is ready to cave in to the Libs. He will make a deal that will start the deterioration of the 2a.

I am serious, because the evidence is on the side of the things I wrote. What evidence do you have for your statement?
And are you an NRA member?

And back under the bridge they go!!

Hillary BOT?

These are Trumps words below in bold...are you just going to gloss over this?

This is exactly what the NRA has been warning people about for years. The government disarming people with NO due process. Trump threatened to do it yesterday!

“I like taking the guns early, like in this crazy man’s case that just took place in Florida ... to go to court would have taken a long time,” Trump said at a meeting with lawmakers on school safety and gun violence.

“Take the guns first, go through due process second,” Trump said.

So what would be your perfect world Lobotomy? I know your sore about President Trump, But are you willing to give up your Gun Rights over hissy fit?

Reactionary...I don't use the term in the way dictionaries or leftists use the term. Here, it is used as something happens and the response comes with little thought and based on emotion. The president does not have the foundation of the Constitution. He tends to go with the popular thought of the time. I don't trust him on guns or any other politician that has held every position on the issues, sometimes during the same speech.

You mean the same way you glossed over the five points I covered?

Did you even watch the meeting or are you simply regurgitating liberal talking points you saw on CNN or Huff Post?

I just watched the meeting, Trump is going against the NRA and the GOP.

Hahha!! So.... just to clarify.... the people on here who
are calling out Trump for not defending our 2A rights
are being called “liberals”. You so called conservatives
are defending his thoughts to pass more gun laws.
Hmmmm....

We must have watched different meetings.

Lug, are you still going to worship Trump after his new gun laws come out?

I don't worship anyone, I don't even like President Trump's brash style. I do like many of his "America First" policies and the stand up way he's been handling things since taking office. And I'm thankful everyday that one of the liberal presidential candidates are not in the whitehouse implementing the anti-gun policies they all ran on.

Most of all, I enjoy debunking the utter bullcrap you trolls spread on this forum.

capital T Lug=Troll

The facts were presented to you.

Presidents don't make laws.

No, but then president is in charge of the administrative branch of government. That would include law enforcement, who would be the ones to collect citizens' guns before the judicial branch could provide the citizen with a fair hearing. Now many would say, 'this is exactly what is needed to prevent mass shootings and other crimes'. I hate to tell you, but there is a small likely hood that government will not abuse this no due process thing in regard to guns, and when they see that citizens do not care about due process in this regard, it will expand to other regards. It's what government does, now. It doesn't protect your rights, it wheedles them away.

I don't judge people by what they say but by what they do. So far the Pres. has not done anything to effect me adversely but has said alot I don't agree with, actions speak louder than words.

If everyone did as you do, there wouldn't be much need to conduct pre-emptive grabby grabs.

Trump was specifically talking about the kid Nikolas Cruz (I think that odd way is how he spells his name), who had such a huge and long history of run-ins with law enforcement that at some point, law enforcement should have stepped in between him and his gun on their way to figuring out his obvious mental problems and whether or not he was a dire threat. Obviously Cruz was a dire threat, and his behavior was by orders of magnitude an outlier of an outlier. That is what Trump is talking about. Nothing else. It is hard to disagree with him, and I agree at least in spirit, we need to make sure nutcases like Cruz do not own or access guns.
Lugnut said exactly what I would say: Trump's personal style is not always what I would prefer to experience, but I do appreciate his refreshing America-first attitude (I know, I know, it's shocking). His appointees have mostly been solid conservatives, faithfully implementing his pro-America agenda. Yes, there are some liberal weenies mixed in there, like DeVos, the Secretary of Education, and AG Sessions is an infuriatingly timid little man who does not realize how little time our nation has to come clean about the last administration's serious crimes. Heck former AG Eric Holder was using the DOJ to sue every outspoken grandma and South Succotash school district and East Podunk police force who stood in the way of The Imam-In-Chief's effort to "transform America." Sessions won't even investigate glaring crimes, like where are the 33,000 illegal emails? And why was the fake "dossier" used to get a FISA warrant for US government officials to spy on American citizens who were merely the political opponents of the Imam-In-Chief and his chosen successor? Totally un-American stuff, contrary to every fiber of our nation's tradition, and yet all we hear about are 'guns are bad, no one needs an AR15.'
So yeah, in general Trump is incredibly pro-Second Amendment, and I welcome his support for things like universal/constitutional concealed carry.

It is only logical to believe trump was talking about outliers of outliers; however when dealing with government it never stays that way. When the door is opened they will expand the notion of due process being only necessary when it's convenient. If Cruz had that many run ins with the law, he should've been brought before a judge for a fair hearing, like we would expect for ourselves. There is already a process in place to get guns from crazies, once again government failed to utilize the tools it already has and tries to get new (unconstitutional) tools.

OK, I will agree with you somewhat, in that Trump does not have a grounding in politics, policy, or direct knowledge of the US Constitution. I think you are right about that, but you also miss the point that every single other candidate for president did fulfill your tests and they all stank. Especially the RINOs like "Jeb!" and Kasich. Despite decades of being supposed policy gurus, none of these politicians would have stood up for us citizens and our nation the way Trump has.
And I totally disagree with you that Trump goes along with the popular thought at the time. What popular thought? The popular thought conveyed by the leftist media and Hollywood every single day? Trump has stood up to those people unlike any other person has or would. The reason you dislike his confrontational style is the very evidence Trump is standing up to the anti-Americans among us. You can't have it both ways, though the fact that you want to have it both ways shows that you just want to complain about Trump, no matter what he does. If he walked on water, you would complain he can't swim.
As for not trusting any politician to stand up for our Second Amendment rights, I mostly agree with you. Very few elected officials today anywhere in America are brave in any sense of the word. That goes from dog catcher to the US Senate and every position in between. This is why it is so important to support the few elected officials who do stand up for us, the taxpayers and citizens who supposedly own this great nation. Sheriff Clarke, Sheriff Joe Arpaio, Trump, Ted Cruz, a handful of others around the nation deserve your support. Send their campaign ten bucks and hold off on beer for a week.

Well said! I totally agree with you.
So what you wrote here is the answer.
But it does not mean that Trump isn't looking out for Second Amendment rights. The guy is a negotiator. He seems to specialize in bait-and-switch with the left. He leans in like he's going to agree with them, blunts their criticism, disarms them, and then backs out without having changed anything. Lowlife Schumer said dealing with Trump was like "negotiating with a piece of Jello." Good!
Anyhow, i have written a lot here this morning, and I thank anyone who has taken the time to read what I write, whether you agree or disagree. Work is calling, and I must go on a long drive to get some work done to pay the bills and keep the lights on at home.
Everyone have a great day!

Nothing to gain by bait and switch tactics with people that are never going to vote the way you want them to. If that is the tactic, it's a waste of time. They will read the bill if it doesn't come from the D side, they are not that dumb.

ah yes. Truly the tactics of a self described "very stable genius"

Trump has no real positions on issues, only goes with the popular position of the moment, coupled with a complete ignorance of the Constitution and lack of any understanding of how our government works.

Would you want to negotiate with a person like that? For anything?

Is this how an effective leader really gets anything done?

Yep

So you equate political negotiations with say, buying a car? Do you really believe that is a sound approach to politics, and if yes, can you name anyone else who does it? And when you can't do that , why would Trump do it if no one else does it?
Right.
So far, trump's effectiveness has been overwhelming. He has achieved huge gains in policy and law. In just one year. Would I like him to do more? Yes. One of his mistakes has been to allow holdovers from previous administrations to remain in senior positions. All of these people are doing their utmost to stop and block his policies. He has allowed these people to remain out of his mistaken idea that a company is run from the very top, or in this case, out of the White House. Government is not like a private business. All of the myriad little bureaucrats, and the bigger bureaucrats, can do a lot to speed up or slow down policy implementation. They are never held accountable. If Trump really wanted to be effective, he would immediately terminate every single SES holdover as well as senior political hacks like Rod Rosenstein, throughout the entire federal government. His predecessors did it, for good reasons. He would also ignore federal judges who substitute their judicial office for political processes and executive functions. E.g, DACA, an executive policy begun by the prior administration and which this new administration can just as easily stop, using the same executive powers. Any judge who would try to stop that is operating far outside the separation of powers that is the basis of our constitutional republic. Ignore them, and let them try too enforce their unconstitutional holdings. By playing on their battlefield, Trump will lose every time. He needs to learn it and stop being nice.

LUGSTER, Stop Feeding The Troll !!!

w

I would rather be a Troll than a Mooch!

What makes Tealbrook a troll?

One liners designed to flame?

Absolutely nothing makes me a troll. They like to use that word when the facts prove them wrong. There are a few others that they like to call a "troll" also. The word is usually the last resort when they run out of B.S.

A troll is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting quarrels or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal, on-topic discussion, often for the troll's amusement.

But you already knew that didn't you Tweed?

If you don't think he is a troll, could you please explain why he has spent approximately half his time here since joining on vacation?

No.... I know what an internet troll is.... I just don't see how he meets that definition unless I missed something. So often people revert to name calling (troll, libtard, ect...) instead of debating the subject at hand.

Not sure what you're asking in your final question.

He's been axed, given a vacation, a time-out twice since joining six weeks ago. Why do you think that is?

Good thing you're not a moderator lugnut or you'd be here talking to yourself and other like minded individuals. How boring would that be?

I'd just weed out the one or two blatant trolls. There's plenty of interesting diversity here without them.

He still hasn't answered my question: Is he an NRA member, or not?

Who?

The fact that he disagrees with certain people who think their views are better than anyone else's.

Jim

Exactly.

Jim

James, you have obviously missed a lot of Tealbrook's posts. He has gotten craftier with his posts and probably feels he is playing the moderators.

Not all the liberals on this forum are as well spoken and of the same character as you are.

Keith

Palltheway, I think u can answer that question on your own by past conversations with the left leaning lib.

I admit I missed a lot during my voluntary sabbatical from the forum, but I didn't see anything from Tealbrook on this thread that justifies calling him a troll.

Jim

The past violations were blatant, which was why he received temporary bans. Many forum members do not believe he is truly reformed now.

I personally like seeing differing opinions, if given in a reasonable manner. I think it helps motivate us to change things for the better.

Keith

How do folks know if someone was given a "vacation"?

you can smell it--shame

They come back refreshed.

Lol

One way is when a daily poster stops posting. Another way is when that poster's username no longer shows up on the user list.

Speaking of which...

Three vacations in six weeks, why do you think that is Tweed?

"Hey Joe, Say It Ain't So".

Buncha crybabies.

Have you always been this naive and misguided?

That's a trollish comment lugnut.

Lug- are you addressing the person or the point the person is making?

Ban thyself, at once!

I honestly do not follow individuals enough to know they're not posting unless it's been months.

In related news:

Georgia House, Senate back state income tax rate cut, sans Delta break



Updated: 3:41 p.m. Thursday, March 01, 2018 | Posted: 12:20 p.m. Thursday, March 01, 2018

With the battle settled over who has more clout at the Capitol — Delta Air Lines or the National Rifle Association — the Georgia House and Senate overwhelmingly backed legislation Thursday to cut state income tax rates.

The final votes were largely a formality and gave Republican lawmakers and candidates what they wanted this election year — a chance to brag about cutting state income tax rates.

Gov. Nathan Deal has already committed to quickly signing the legislation into law. That will likely happen early next week.

House Bill 918 passed the Senate 44-10 and House 135-24 after Senate leaders stripped a provision to eliminate sales taxes on jet fuel — something Delta had coveted.

“What is important is not that (tax break) anymore but that Georgians are going to get their tax relief, and we couldn’t let that fall victim to everything that was going on with Delta,” House Speaker David Ralston, R-Blue Ridge, said after the House gave the measure final approval.

The jet fuel break — worth more than $40 million to Delta and millions to other airlines — was axed after the Atlanta corporate giant publicly nixed a discount for NRA members over the weekend.

Oh.....I have noticed that Finster hasn't been around but only because he started multiple breitbart threads daily

Would be nice if government wasn't big enough to give favors, tax breaks to their cronies. Or have the gall to brag about withdrawing the feedbag when private businesses no longer do their bidding. Republican's love crony capitalism.

The Georgia legislature should be cautious about needling a corporation whose existence is linked to travel. Push too far and they'll fly right out of that state, for good. The legislative equivalents of Boss Hogg will have to go back to grubbing peanuts out of the dirt.

Delta is going to pull out of Atlanta? That's funny.

How close to what they're doing is considered extortion?

I thought shrinking the gov. was a repub. principle. Is that out the window now.
Hasn't Trump put effort in draining the swamp?

Republican's have been approximately 50% responsible for what we suffer with now.

It's not like they are a mining corporation, digging their profit out of the Georgia dirt.

Atlanta is Delta's largest hub. They may be dumb but that doesn't mean they're stupid.

Where do we see ourselves in the future? Who should we hitch our wagon to?

Atlanta is THE busiest airport in the world. Ya they will just go somewhere else.

No idea. There is no 'who' to hitch to. Simply lean into maximum freedom and minimum government in every regard.

You think maybe it's because delta has its corporate headquarters and it's main base of operations there? I didn't didn't report that Delta WAS moving. I state to be careful needling a business whose interest is travel.

No idea. There is no 'who' to hitch to. Simply lean into maximum freedom and minimum government in every regard.

I thought that was what I was doing with the republicans.

Well I don't agree, but I'm not you. I used to agree, but the country has been at war for so long that this year the war is old enough to enlist in the military. That fact alone should make you think.

The elimination of the jet fuel tax break applies to all airlines operating out of Georgia, not just Delta. Delta's public response against the NRA was the cause.

Dropping the fuel tax break equates to about fifty million in continued tax revenue for the state of Georgia. It will help offset the income tax break they passed for the citizens of that state. I guess it worked out for Georgia that Delta shot their mouth off about the NRA?

So because Delta won't offer a discount so that Bubba and Darlene can fly to Dollywood from Pigknuckle,Mississippi they rescind the goodybag of tax breaks? It doesn't affect me any, but it does prove my point made concerning crony capitalism.

Crony capitalism has been around as long as there have been governments that allow capitalism. You can rail against it all you like, but in the end, it won't change anything.

Not with that attitude.

Well I don't agree, but I'm not you. I used to agree, but the country has been at war for so long that this year the war is old enough to enlist in the military. That fact alone should make you think.

That's been thought of before!...put America first.

I consider it a win, albeit a minor one, for 2A.

Flynn is the lone voice in the wilderness, everything bad, Flynn good.

If everyone here hauled water for the Republicans we'd all drown if the bilge pump siezed.

A war that cannot be won....and should never have been fought. One nuke on Tora bora when they knew ubl was there was all we needed to do. It would have been justified after 9/11.

If every isolationist and liberal was as smart as they think they are we would live in Nirvana.

I am a non-interventionalist. I believe in free and open trade amongst men and nations.

Lol, Do you even know what this word means in the south?

2X

President Trump, The Republican Controlled House & Senate, And The Nearly Six Million & Rising NRA Members Will Come Out On Top When The Gun Smoke Clears.

w

You are right, Grouse. Mr T has abandoned ship here. I take pride in being NRA Life, as do you. I get frustrated hauling around the weight of gun owners too lazy or "superior" to join NRA and lend a hand.

Shame tactics and hypocrisy-great recruitment tools.

Yeah, I'm sure motivated to renew.

Jim

i got your back guy's.you need me to join your trappers assoc. to protect those rights for ya's also? i'll do it if ya need me to.

I don't support the NRA. I used to. In spite of what my dad and uncle and granddad said about them. Then I saw for myself during the Clinton administration they cannot be trusted. Every now and then my assessment of them is reiterated. Kinda like the trapping groups that fail to support trapping.

I do support the right to arm yourself. If a person is too dangerous to be armed why release them from prison????????????????????????? Keeping dangerous felons incarcerated makes more sense than forcing a businessman to check your papers and do a background check before selling you a firearm. Why are mentally ill people who are too dangerous to arm themselves being released from hospitals?????????????????????? These are the questions to ask our representatives.

No law will stop mass murder. I bet it would be easy to go into a crowd with a tree limb and kill a dozen people. Most people will panic. One good blow will cause death. I bet a murderer would have 2-3 minutes of uninterrupted mayhem before someone fought back in most cases.

Remember in church those people that would just pass the offering plate? They also had high ideals and talked a good game.

You sound proud of this. That kind of attitude helps no one.

AJE
NRA Life Member
SAF Life Member
Wi Carry, Inc Member

No need to buy your way to heaven, or to buy your salvation from Wayne LaPiere. God loves you, so much that he gave us the right to be armed. He doesn't give a flying fartsack if you send your check to a preacher, or it ends up in a politicians pocket.

mornin Finn

hyvää huomenta, pcr2

Is that Finnish for "Go take a flying leap through a rolling doughnut!" ?

i think he put a hex on me but not sure.

Hey High Flying Finn,

You Mis-Spelled Mr Lapierre's Last Name !!

You'd Better Show Some Respect And Apologize Because He's Your Daddy !!!

w

uh-oh,anyone asks i wasn't here.

When you were growing up, didn't your dad tell you to carry your own weight in the family? My dad did, and my chores grew as I got older and more capable. The same principle applies here and now to the groups that protect our civil liberties and rights. When we grew up into adults, we put away childish things. It is childish to enjoy owning firearms and complain about the one group that ensures you can keep holding onto them. So there is no hypocrisy here, Finn, but by those who want it both ways - own guns, complain about the NRA. And it ain't no shame to expect adults to carry their own weight. But it is shameful that they won't. And with a weak, moocher mentality like that, it seems no recruitment approach will work. Just sit back and complain, while everyone else does the work. You are lucky my dad wasn't your dad, or maybe not. You'd be a better person for it. Mr T, too.

Haha WaLlEYe, he ain't my daddy. I ain't no frenchy, I'm of purebred stock.

I can understand where Finn is coming from. In a perfect world people would understand the right to defend yourself is an unalienable right. Shouldn't have to give to any organization to defend that right. Unfortunately we don't live in a perfect world.

What work?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????


Going along with the last three major federal gun control bills? Act of 1934, act of 1968, semi auto ban and insta check in the 90's. How in the world is it in my benefit to support that????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

I am against gun control of any kind and against any organization that endorses gun control. Including but not limited to the NRA.

Some folks cannot see the forest for the trees....

You know, diggerman may have made a good point equating the collection plate at church to NRA recruitment. I am a Missouri Synod Lutheran, we believe certain things that make us different than Catholics or even other synods of Lutherans. We do not go around lambasting Catholics for not donating to our church, nor look down on them. If I were to donate to the NRA, who has a history of compromise, it would go against my core beliefs. It would advance an agenda I wholeheartedly disagree with. I mention this fact, not to be 'superior', or lazy. I do it because there may be others who do not agree with compromise and do not know there are other organizations to join who's beliefs align more with their own.

Why support a group that endorsed forcing you to pay to get permission to own a suppressor or full auto. Why should you need permission let alone pay for it? NRA says now they are against forcing a license for suppressors but the NRA supported the bill that requires it.

You can thank the NRA for making it a crime to buy a handgun for your 16 year old granddaughter.

You can thank the NRA for the requirement to go through a dealer, fill out paperwork, pay a fee, just to buy a mailorder firearm.

I could go on but I won't. I won't ever give them another nickel either.

Not every battle is winnable Danny. Compromise is inevitable if an organization wishes to remain relevant. The NRA understands that as do most reasonable people.

Instead of focusing on the relatively few failures of the NRA, I wish folks could focus on the fact that it is the one organization that has done more to protect against political infringement of the second amendment than any other. They have spent hundreds of millions of dollars over the years in the successful legal defense of 2A. Likewise they have spent hundreds of millions in the support and promotion of both gun safety and the shooting sports. They are the most powerful gun lobby in the world. They are the most powerful voice of the American gun owner. Everyone of the NRA's detractors needs to understand and respect those facts.

I have nothing at all against other gun owner's groups like GOA. I understand though that they do not have anywhere near the political clout or the financial resources of the NRA. The NRA is going to be the biggest bang for any conscientious gun-owner's buck.

Personally, I am for background check.....why would I support a convicted murderer or looney tune being able to buy a firearm?

I guess some will say that I am selling out on the second amendment....

Bump stock ban?.....no skin off my nose as its sole purpose it to bypass an existing gun law.

Full auto over the counter sales?.......with no background check of any kind?

No, thanks anyway.

Compromise in government is fine when dealing with tax levy's, or deciding what color carpets to put in the public library, ect.
It is not fine when dealing with the very spine of the republic.

So cut your nose off to spite your face?

They are the best we got and they've been doing a pretty good job for a very long time.

It is really disappointing to see some members on here acting like they are taking the high ground by letting do their share of the lifting. As Lugnut so eloquently stated the NRA is the first line of defense against the anti-gunners. If you have issues about the way they do things, join up and fight to change them, don't sit on the sidelines and disparage the efforts of others.

Answer this; if you admit that the goal of leftists is disarmament, and compromise is inevitable then the logical end of the compromise ends in disarmament. Why is that something to be 'the first line of defense? From outward appearances it looks not to be a defense at all, more of the delaying action of a retreat.

I guess you can take up an indefensible position and yell "foul" until you are beat or join up and fight the good fight.

I will join your organized gun rights protection group, Give me a name of one that passes your muster and I will join it Finn.

Whether you agree or not with any particular organization, its ultimately down to the voters to make the stand.

Great point about getting involved Corky. With any large organization, there are always going to be people and things the majority of folks don't agree with. The answer is getting involved.

For all you current members; when you receive this month's Board of Directors ballot please vote for Adam Kraut.



He is a lawyer who works for Prince Law Offices where they specialize in 2A issues. He is also a member of the Firearms Consulting Group.

Here is a link to his page:

Adam Kraut

There are admittedly some directors on the NRA board that shouldn't be there. Some are constant no-shows and others are not fully aligned with our cause. Adam is just the sort we need to make some changes.

That is an overly-simplistic view of a very large and complex issue.

Diggerman you nailed it!!!!

Background checks? No thanks. If you aren't safe enough to carry arms you should be locked up.

Bump stocks? It isn't anyone elses business how much money and ammo an individual burns through.

Full auto? That argument is the same as is currently being used against semi auto weapons. It is villifying the gun, not the idiot pulling the trigger.

Lee summed it up. I renewed my membership yesterday. Yea they send you junk mail but if it wasn't for them we would be up poo creek with no paddle!

I am an member of Gun Owners of America.
https://gunowners.org
Thank you for joining. I do not disparage those who do join the NRA, even those who support 'reasonable restrictions'. I only ask that you enter into the relationship with your eyes wide open and realize what is going on. Thank you.

It is only a large and complex issue because you, I and our ancestors allowed to become one. Our Constitution was written to disbarr government meddling in certain things. We have failed to constrain it and I cannot abide by making it anymore complex

Yep, Finn and Danny don't understand that in every war won, not every battle was won.

Compromise doesn't end in disarmament unless the Supreme Court finds disarmament constitutional.

Its a risky bet in today's world.

Say what ya'll want, but in the last 30-40 years that our 2nd rights has been under great attack, and since the NRA has been fighting them, you lost nothing.

You should thank them, instead of complain of what they "might" give away.

See the Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986. NRA supported it. Not surprisingly the name of the law is the exact opposite of what it really means. See the Affordable Care Act for a similar example in government naming game.

I do not think that everyone who is not incarcerated is safe enough to own/carry firearms.....I live in the world that exists and base my opinions on that and not some fairy tale land.

I do not care how much money or ammo someone else goes thru but I live within and abide by the laws that exist and bump stocks only purpose it to circumvent those laws so I think they should be done away with..

The government will never legalize full auto as an over the counter sale.....but if someone said to me that a mass shooter could kill more people with a full auto vs a semi auto then under the right circumstances that would be true. Not the same argument as anti ar-15.....

I certainly do not think that anyone who cannot be trusted with a firearm should be locked up...we have more folks locked up per captia than any other country as is....increasing that by 10x is impossible and impractical.

The problem with it?
Allows alot of things that should've been allowed, no suprise the NRA supported it if they did as you say.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/99th-congress/senate-bill/49

Freedom! (Some restrictions may apply, results may vary and not all offers redeem able at all locations ).

yea, kind like a wet dream you woke up from.

???

You either have a good amagination, or are just one miserable sob. I'm not sure what world you live in, but reality isn't present in it.

Sorry i said that Finn,
maybe you've been somewhere that was reality and i just don't understand ya.

Marty I figured you for a guy smart enough to realize background checks don't keep someone bent on criminal activity from using a firearm. Feel good laws like background checks, licensing, regulating type's of firearm etc doesn't do anything but make simple minded folks feel better. I won't ever get behind that nonsense or pretend an organization that does is looking out for my best interest. Freedom is what's in my best interest. Not putting up with feel good laws that have no effect on crime but do effect honest people who are law abiding. It makes them less safe.

BTW NRA is in the same business as PETA. Make money. Without a constant battle the money flow is over. The NRA has no interest in seeing your right to arm yourself be recognized in the fashion it was written.

I think one thing that everyone seems to forget is that murder is all ready illegal. No matter what is used for a weapon. Seems to be doing a good job, doesn't it?

Actually if someone cannot pass a background check for the purchase of a firearm it will be more difficult for them to buy a firearm and background checks do not effect law abiding people at all unless they cannot pass the check in which case maybe they are not really law abiding?

There is nothing simple minded about making it harder for a mentally ill person or a criminal to purchase a gun. People lock the door to their house to make it harder for someone to steal their possessions.....but we all know that a locked door will not stop someone determined to break it down...Maybe only simple minded people lock the door to their house since it will not stop someone who is determined to break it down?

Maybe any kid in a school playground should be able to buy a m-60 and 20 belts of ammo? That would be unrestricted gun ownership......seems to be what some of you folks want.

Maybe we should legalize murder since its really only a feel good law for the simple minded folks since we all know if someone wants to murder another person the mere fact that it is illegal will not stop them?

I think the simple minded folks are the ones that do not see what the NRA has done and prevented from being done.

Profound statement. Where money flows, controversy will be unending. Much like the 'war on terror'.

Laws against murder make it possible to incarcerate murderers. That does protect the public. At least from that one murderer. Who do the background check nonsense, type of legal firearm, licensing etc protect us from? I believe those laws make us less safe.

I think you believe that also or you wouldn't say something like make murder legal since laws against it don't work.

If someone commits a crime so heinous they ought to lose their right to self defense why are they not still in prison? Murderers in prison are not a threat to the public. If someone has a mental illness that poses a threat to others why are they not hospitalized? That way the public is protected from that person. Firearm laws do NOT protect us from dangerous humans. At all on any level. To say otherwise is disingenuous.

Total bullcrap.

There was an NRA long before there was gun control. They promoted shooting sports back then just like they do now. If we all thought the same way you two do, we wouldn't need the NRA would we? The second amendment would have been gutted long ago, your ability to possess a firearm for the most mundane of things like plinking or hunting would be severely restricted and heavily regulated or just plain nonexistent. Your right to armed self-defense would be long gone.

It's a never-ending battle with gun-grabbing liberals. It's wrong to assign blame for that to the NRA. Put the blame where it belongs, in the hands of liberal, anti-gun politicians.

If the gun issue was resolved tomorrow, if the Supreme Court ruled that 2A will never again be infringed in any way, there would still be an NRA. They would continue to promote gun safety, school safety and hunting and shooting sports the same as they always have.

you better check your history lugnut

FWIW I don't blame the NRA for gun control. I blame them for sweet talking me out of my hard earned money then trying to convince me insta check was a good idea. I should have listened to my Dad GrandDad and uncle when Charlton Hesston was on TV saying we needed the gun control act of 68. they were all members till that fiasco. Which reminds me. After that was passed why are police officers still being murdered?

The NRA can't be trusted.

A Brief History of the NRA

Dismayed by the lack of marksmanship shown by their troops, Union veterans Col. William C. Church and Gen. George Wingate formed the National Rifle Association in 1871. The primary goal of the association would be to "promote and encourage rifle shooting on a scientific basis," according to a magazine editorial written by Church.

After being granted a charter by the state of New York on November 17, 1871, the NRA was founded. Civil War Gen. Ambrose Burnside, who was also the former governor of Rhode Island and a U.S. senator, became the fledgling NRA's first president.

An important facet of the NRA's creation was the development of a practice ground. In 1872, with financial help from New York State, a site on Long Island, the Creed Farm, was purchased for the purpose of building a rifle range. Named Creedmoor, the range opened a year later, and it was there that the first annual matches were held.

Political opposition to the promotion of marksmanship in New York forced the NRA to find a new home for its range. In 1892, Creedmoor was deeded back to the state and NRA's matches moved to Sea Girt, New Jersey.

The NRA's interest in promoting the shooting sports among America's youth began in 1903 when NRA Secretary Albert S. Jones urged the establishment of rifle clubs at all major colleges, universities and military academies. By 1906, NRA's youth program was in full swing with more than 200 boys competing in matches at Sea Girt that summer. Today, youth programs are still a cornerstone of the NRA, with more than one million youth participating in NRA shooting sports events and affiliated programs with groups such as 4-H, the Boy Scouts of America, the American Legion, Royal Rangers, National High School Rodeo Association and others.

Due to the overwhelming growth of NRA's shooting programs, a new range was needed. Gen. Ammon B. Crichfield, adjutant general of Ohio, had begun construction of a new shooting facility on the shores of Lake Erie, 45 miles east of Toledo, Ohio. Camp Perry became the home of the annual National Matches, which have been the benchmark for excellence in marksmanship ever since. With nearly 6,000 people competing annually in pistol, smallbore and high-power events, the National Matches are one of the biggest sporting events held in the country today.

Through the association's magazine, The American Rifleman, members were kept abreast of new firearms bills, although the lag time in publishing often prevented the necessary information from going out quickly. In response to repeated attacks on the Second Amendment rights, NRA formed the Legislative Affairs Division in 1934. While NRA did not lobby directly at this time, it did mail out legislative facts and analyses to members, whereby they could take action on their own. In 1975, recognizing the critical need for political defense of the Second Amendment, NRA formed the Institute for Legislative Action, or ILA.

Meanwhile, the NRA continued its commitment to training, education and marksmanship. During World War II, the association offered its ranges to the government, developed training materials, encouraged members to serve as plant and home guard members, and developed training materials for industrial security. NRA members even reloaded ammunition for those guarding war plants. Incidentally, the NRA's call to help arm Britain in 1940 resulted in the collection of more than 7,000 firearms for Britain's defense against potential invasion by Germany (Britain had virtually disarmed itself with a series of gun-control laws enacted between World War I and World War II).

After the war, the NRA concentrated its efforts on another much-needed arena for education and training: the hunting community. In 1949, the NRA, in conjunction with the state of New York, established the first hunter education program. Hunter Education courses are now taught by state fish and game departments across the country and Canada and have helped make hunting one of the safest sports in existence. Due to increasing interest in hunting, NRA launched a new magazine in 1973, The American Hunter, dedicated solely to hunting issues year-round. NRA continues its leadership role in hunting today with the Youth Hunter Education Challenge (YHEC), a program that allows youngsters to build on the skills they learned in basic hunter education courses. YHECs are now held in 43 states and three Canadian provinces, involving an estimated 40,000 young hunters.

The American Hunter and The American Rifleman were the mainstays of NRA publications until the debut of The American Guardian in 1997. The Guardian was created to cater to a more mainstream audience, with less emphasis on the technicalities of firearms and a more general focus on self-defense and recreational use of firearms. The Guardian was renamed America's 1st Freedom in June of 2000.

Law enforcement training was next on the priority list for program development. Although a special police school had been reinstated at Camp Perry in 1956, NRA became the only national trainer of law enforcement officers with the introduction of its NRA Police Firearms Instructor certification program in 1960. Today, there are more than 13,000 NRA-certified police and security firearms instructors. Additionally, top law enforcement shooters compete each year in eight different pistol and shotgun matches at the National Police Shooting Championships held in Albuquerque, New Mexico.

In civilian training, the NRA continues to be the leader in firearms education. Over 125,000 certified instructors now train about 1,000,000 gun owners a year. Courses are available in basic rifle, pistol, shotgun, muzzleloading firearms, personal protection, even ammunition reloading. Additionally, nearly 7,000 certified coaches are specially trained to work with young competitive shooters. Since the establishment of the lifesaving Eddie Eagle GunSafe® Program in 1988, more than 28 million pre-kindergarten to fourth grade children have learned that if they see a firearm in an unsupervised situation, they should "STOP. DON'T TOUCH. RUN AWAY. TELL A GROWNUP." Over the past seven years, Refuse To Be A Victim® seminars have helped more than 100,000 men and women develop their own personal safety plan using common sense strategies.

In 1990, NRA made a dramatic move to ensure that the financial support for firearms-related activities would be available now and for future generations. Establishing the NRA Foundation, a 501 (c) (3) tax-exempt organization, provided a means to raise millions of dollars to fund gun safety and educational projects of benefit to the general public. Contributions to the Foundation are tax-deductible and benefit a variety of American constituencies including youth, women, hunters, competitive shooters, gun collectors, law enforcement agents and persons with physical disabilities.

While widely recognized today as a major political force and as America's foremost defender of Second Amendment rights, the NRA has, since its inception, been the premier firearms education organization in the world. But our successes would not be possible without the tireless efforts and countless hours of service our nearly five million members have given to champion Second Amendment rights and support NRA programs. As former Clinton spokesman George Stephanopoulos said, "Let me make one small vote for the NRA. They're good citizens. They call their congressmen. They write. They vote. They contribute. And they get what they want over time."

The National Rifle Association is America's longest-standing civil rights organization. Together with our more than five million members, we're proud defenders of history's patriots and diligent protectors of the Second Amendment.

Yeah, it's just a terrible organization out to fleece innocent victims out of their hard-earned dollars.

Nice ad. Reminds of the one I saw for scent blocking underwear.

Now u know the real story.Grants from NRA pay for all the targets(clay birds) and ammo for the 4H shooting sports, Youth Hunter Education Challenge, Boy Scouts, Youth Field Day events, etc. around here! Any kids or grandkids involved with these events?

Is there a line item veto option membership?

Well, Finn, I understand you better now, and you and I share exactly the same perspective on gun control and citizen liberties, but we differ on expectations from groups like NRA. I am glad you financially support GOA, as do I. I am also a life member of FOAC, PA's strongest state-based gun group. Complaining about the NRA is like saying you won't support your state trapper's association because they don't support some of your views. The NRA is not the only group, but they are by far the best, most effective group. GOA doesn't come close in effectiveness, though they do a good job of maintaining more legal\philosophical "purity" than NRA and thereby help keep NRA more honest. And by the way, though I am a life member of the PA Trappers Association, they take some positions that drive me crazy, like they won't push on snares, or bodygrips on running poles, etc. But that would never prevent me from supporting PTA. Similarly, disagreements with NRA, which you and I share, will never result in me abandoning the NRA. They are the best we have, as imperfect as they may be.

Here is an op-ed I wrote last week. Hopefully everyone spending time here so eloquently debating the NRA has at least written an op-ed in their local newspaper. We have to take the fight to our enemies, and stop just trying to defend ourselves.

Stop Sacrificing our Schoolchildren on the Altar of Gun Control
If public schools are dangerous sitting duck areas, falsely called "Gun Free Zones," it is solely the fault of the myriad gun control groups that have tried to stigmatize firearms to the point of demanding that historic reenactors use sticks and brooms, instead of historic muzzleloaders.
If the public is angry about lax school security, they can blame groups like CeaseFirePA, who hate guns so much that they would rather see children remain at dire risk than admit guns have a constructive and valuable role in America, and especially in public schools.
Gun control advocates increasingly admit they are anti gun prohibitionists, who would really like to see guns removed from private ownership, or so heavily regulated to the point where government bureaucrats determine our individual liberties. These wealthy, control-freak pressure groups are responsible for insane policies like "Gun Free Zones" at places like Parkland High School. Time after heartbreaking time we see that a Gun Free Zone is anything but that, and crime after crime America's gun control groups pull political stunts, and try to blame lawful gun ownership and the NRA for the heartbreaking results of disarming law-abiding citizens and placing them at the mercy of criminals.
A Gun Free Zone is a foolish, impractical pipe dream promoted by gun prohibitionists. In reality, it is a killing field, where only the criminal attacker has a gun, and where the victims can at best put up token resistance, like Parkland's heroic football coach, Aaron Feis (imagine if Feis had a gun, instead of his body, to defend the students with).
Effectively defending Gun Free Zones, such as schools, is an impossibility society does not inflict on other public venues, like planes, museums, government buildings, politicians, sports events and music concerts. Trying to end the problem by blaming guns, the NRA, and then disarming the law-abiding citizenry, is an indication that gun control groups are not serious about finding a solution to Columbine or Parkland. Rather, they are shamelessly exploiting a situation they alone created to advance their unconstitutional and anti-America agenda.
Guns are protected in our Second Amendment for a reason, and not because our Founders were afraid of deer or ducks. Our Founders knew that an adequately armed citizenry was all that stood between freedom and tyranny. Yes, gun ownership in America is unlike any other nation, with good reason. It was an armed citizenry that created the unique freedoms we all enjoy today, and that will never change.
It is time for serious people to hold gun control groups accountable for the carnage in our schools and demand that they stop sacrificing our schoolchildren on their altar of gun control. Dear CeaseFirePA, stop standing in the way of safe schools; schools are not the place to teach children your anti-gun message.
Respectfully submitted,
"PA"

Yes, tell them you don't need them sending you the magazine.

You really believe there should be absolutely no regulation of firearm ownership and any violent crime or mental illness issue should have a sentence of life imprisonment with no chance of release?

If firearm laws do not protect anyone at all how come no full auto firearms have been used by a mass shooter recently?

In close quarters when people are grouped up a full auto will without a doubt enable the shooter to hit more people....so in that case a firearm law has protected people.....and there are more cases than that.......many more in the real world where criminals are not incarcerated for life.

I did.

I suspect we were lied to and the Nevada murderer did use full auto. probably home made.

Imagine being a man with a mill and lathe in 1900, right where you are in America. They took existing knowledge of what was available and improved it. Not limited to firearms, but including them. Now if a man in 2018 has the same equipment and an idea what happens? Better hire a lawyer, and have deep pockets to pay for your rights. It's that little voice that says, "that's probably illegal". Stifles innovation and may put us behind the 8 ball in the next war. If we ever bother to declare one again.

Good article PAlltheway, was it published?

Was just published on trapperman, the pre-eminent forum that attracts those who care.

The history of the NRA reminds you of an advertisement for underwear?

Maybe the erosion of American exceptionalism and ideals was inevitable. It will probably continue, is likely unstoppable. There are organizations that can and do slow the deterioration of our rights and values. They need our financial support.

Those original aims were awesome, to me. Just leave government and the slip slide of negotiations out of it. Teach young people to respect firearms, to shoot, and most importantly -to know where the right of self rotection comes from.

Well, this Finnlander has been down a slide before. You end up at the bottom. Quit compromising. Check that- a compromise involves consessions from both sides. I have been vocabularyly lacking. The only thing the pinko grabbers are willing to concede is TIME. No more, let it happen now.

I don't care how many eagles they put in front of flags. They won't get another dime from me.

Yeah, you've made that point repeatedly. We get it.

http://www.pennlive.com/opinion/2018/02/making_schools_gun-free_just_t.html

Thanks for the link. Way to go PAlltheway.

It seems we have reached an impasse in negotiations. I wont, you will. They will, but now you know what they want. Let's do it my way. ...please?

How about a compromise? I'll join GOA if you'll join the NRA.

No. I will not go backwards. Take as much gear as you can carry and join me up here.

Yes, (URL above), but in the middle of the night. They buried it. That paper is utterly devoted to destroying individual firearms rights. They even have an article today about how much more advanced an AR15 is than the musket originally protected by the Second Amendment. As if technology would not apply to printing presses or cars. But why try to reason with people who are immune to it? The left simply wants to win.

Very well written, Palltheway.

Thank you, Marty, and Lugnut.

Last question; 'law abiding gun owners' seems to be the catch phrase. What about those that arent? ...imagine, if you will

A parallel universe where Mrs. CLINTON was elected and the political winds blew out of the East.
They will again, men.
There will be atrocities like Lakeland or Las vegas, things that make US question weather it is really worth it.
...do the people you 'hitch your wagon to' have it them to hack it?
Or will you be cast aside for what was legal yesterday to be 'due process second', 'I don't think you need that', 'have you did a background check'. Pretty sad, really.

Oh bummer did 8 years and nothing happened....I wonder why?

NRA.

Here in KS armed robbers, horse thieves, rapists and murderers usually got hanged. In public. The outlaws who went to prison and were released got a horse, 40 dollars and a GUN.

He wanted to sign a lot of gun control bills. He made a mistake though. He should have done it his first two years when D's had all three branches. Lucky for us he wasn't smart enough to foresee that was temporary. He spent too much time fooling with Obama care. Once that was rammed down our throats his political capital was gone and congressional/senate races reflected that.

And that ended all crime.

When ask during the first Democratic debate which enemy she was most proud of, Hillary Clinton named the NRA. She also named; "the health insurance companies, the drug companies, the Iranians. Probably the Republicans." But she named the NRA first.

Not to be anti-gun out done, candidate Martin O'Malley quipped, "The National Rifle Association."

Neither named the GOA or any other pro-gun organization. They named the NRA.

I have more than enough confidence in the NRA to continue my support. I understand, as should all gun owners, that they are the biggest bang for our pro 2A dollars.

Nothing will end crime. It is possible to force our government to recognize the RIGHT to bear arms without infringement.

Would have been fun to live in the 1800's

We need to either impose life without parole or death for things like pedophilia or any other rape, armed robbery, kidnapping, and of course murder.

Eliminate the background check, all paperwork, all licensing of any kind, where firearms are concerned.

We should bring back public hanging for things like mass shooting or acts of terror like McVeigh committed.

ALL, EVERY BIT, of firearm legislation being proposed punishes people who are not criminals. We are being punished for the acts of criminals. None of the legislation being considered makes the public safer. I do not understand why anyone would believe it does.

Here is what I don't understand:

All the anti gun people keep wanting to ban the AR-15 and all it's variants. When in fact, it is just a black plastic stocked semi auto Rifle in .223 Caliber with various capacity magazines available for it. Go one step up, and you have the AR-10 in .308 Winchester. Again, just another Black plastic stocked Rifle in .308 Winchester Caliber with different capacity Magazines available for it.

Now, take the Browning BAR in .308 Winchester. It's a beautiful Walnut stocked Rifle that you can easily get in .308 Winchester . It has a Magazine capacity of 4 Rounds.

Other than the Black Plastic stocks and the higher capacity Magazines in the AR-10, What makes that Rifle any different than the Browning BAR in the same .308 Winchester Caliber? They are both Semi - Auto Rifles. Both fire the same Caliber Ammunition

It's not the gun that is the problem. It is the Person pulling the trigger, that is the problem. Enforce the Laws that are on the Books. Do the Background checks

They want to do more than ban AR's. They want to continue the unconstitutional nonsense we now enjoy like asking then paying for permission to carry, own suppressors or full auto.

Gun control is not about being reasonable or honest. We cannot reason with the gun control people because they are prohibitionists. Like the anti-alcohol activists of the 1920s, today's anti-gun prohibitionists think they are on a mission from God. They simply do not like guns and don't see why anyone else should like them, either. Instead of hunkering down in the remotest place we can find, it is most useful to band together with like-minded friends who will join us in refusing to relinquish our guns when so demanded. Liberals like those sanctuary cities, where they can convert illegal invaders into votes for power and political dominance. Wait til they see our sanctuary cities for guns.

A little factoid they are keeping quiet.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/03/report-parkland-shooter-did-not-use-high-capacity-magazines/

His gun jammed so he threw it on the ground? Good thing nobody told him about TAP-RACK-BANG or the SPORTS acronym for a weapon malfunction. Idiot. So how he did he blend into the crowd after he just got done shooting at them?

I saw that on ammoland a few days ago....has it been confirmed?

Miami Herold any good Marty?

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/broward/article202486304.html

They burried it down the page alittle.

Yes, what I read said that he could not fit the carbine with a 30 round mag in the bag that he used so he used 10 round mags...

If I remember it correctly.

And prior to that, how did he walk right out of a vehicle, across school grounds, and into the school carrying a rifle in the first place?

What I read said it was in a bag of some type.

Marty,

But, wouldn't you think shape of a bag that contained a rifle seem suspicious considering the person carrying it and the threats he made prior?

I would find it suspicious. But my experience is that the majority of people today have 0% situational awareness. No clue about what is going on around them at all.

True. And some just don't want to get involved until it's too late.

That door swings both ways for those students working to organize the March 24th March their classmates that were killed that day they waited too long to act.

Most serious change in our nations comes out of someone or group taking action and not giving up. All strong 2nd A right believers have been fortunate that in the past all the mass shootings the preferred method of action was to play on the sympathy for the dead and their families and after several dozen of those attempts have not moved even one inch another approach is now being taken. This approach is not about sympathy or guilt it is more about activism and advocacy and challenge. This attempt may falter as all others have but at least a different approach has been taken and at least from a business aspect they have more on board than ever before.

Bryce

Precisely. People live inside a personal space bubble today. Ear plugs. Loud music. Zero idea of what is happening around them, and zero idea of what to do if something bad happens

Why is this guy out of jail???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

https://nypost.com/2018/03/06/man-accused-of-wanting-to-eat-child-sex-slave-released-from-jail/

When he goes on a rampage, once again the tool he uses will be blamed. I say whoever is responsible for his release (judge or legislators or both) should be charged with murder also.

Bingo. You and Lugnut are spot on. Thanks.

AJE
Proud NRA Life Member

[/quote] Lee summed it up. I renewed my membership yesterday. Yea they send you junk mail but if it wasn't for them we would be up poo creek with no paddle![/quote]
I was able to call them about a year ago and get out of the junk mailings. It was easier than I thought.

If the NRA is the LPOP of this whole "debate" and think you are the first line of defense, you should wonder why we are even doing it. You're a compromising organisation that entertains discussions with the lowest of life, dead souled people alive now. Just stop.

Finn, it appears you will do anything you can to knock NRA. Your tactic of dividing people isn't working. It's ridiculous that some of you are taking the stance of bashing NRA. I'm not wasting my time trying to convince you how much NRA has accomplished over the years, but it deeply bothers me that some on here seem eager to talk others out of supporting NRA. My advice to people remains strong...don't buy into the negativity. Instead, join and stand with NRA. Nothing wrong with belonging to multiple gun groups. I belong to 3.

Perhaps the wisest comment on this thread.

Belong to 2O. Quit compromising. I, personally, don't need a "rifleman badge", and I don't care if you do send money to the NRA, but by God...you men that do better get an effin spine and quick.

It's not about 'being off base' or 'being in a club thats under attack'....OMG! Did you see what she said about us! If you don't be a member you're one of them...eww. gross.

Quit sending money for these combover flopdicks. You are prolongin the misery. No compromise ever.

tap-rak-bang, i get, fully.
Sports? please clarify.

I hate comb over flopdicks too, and im keen on weapons terminology, but i feel lost on this one.
Sports?

eleborate, sir

Slap, Pull, Observe, Release, Tap, and Shoot.

It is a Parris Island acronym. They knew they wouldn't remember it when it counted but it made them keep their tongue mostly in their mouth when they came to camp pendleton. An affirmative action acronym.

ok, i know tap-rak-bang is...

slap, pull, observe, release, tap and shoot?

do i have that right? No offense, just asking?

See the nearest army recruiting station.

Quite the rant Finn, maybe you should step away from the bottle.

In other news:

NRA Sues Florida

(CNN)The National Rifle Association is suing the state of Florida after Gov. Rick Scott signed Senate Bill 7026 into law Friday, the first gun control legislation enacted in the state after the Parkland school massacre on February 14.

The NRA suit focuses on the part of the law that raises the minimum age to purchase a firearm to 21 from 18. "This bill punishes law-abiding gun owners for the criminal acts of a deranged individual," executive director of the NRA Institute for Legislative Action Chris W. Cox said. "Securing our schools and protecting the constitutional rights of Americans are not mutually exclusive."

Seventeen people were killed at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School when a 19-year-old man with a semi-automatic military-style rifle opened fire.

The lawsuit, filed in the Northern District of Florida, says the age minimum section of the new law violates the second and 14th amendments of the US Constitution. The NRA argues people who are 18 years old are considered adults "for almost all purposes and certainly for the purposes of the exercise of fundamental constitutional rights." The organization also contends federal law already prevents many Americans 21 or younger from buying certain types of guns. Florida's law unconstitutionally broadens those limits, the NRA says.

Florida Attorney General Pam Bondi, who is named as a defendant, said she was proud of the law. "This bill is not perfect, and sadly it will not bring back the 17 lives lost in the horrific school shooting, but the safety of our children is not a political issue, it's simply the right thing to do," she said.

Bondi also lauded the students of Stoneman Douglas, many of whom have called for tougher gun laws. Several students texted CNN's Dianne Gallagher with their excitement about Scott signing the measures. "We are happy and ready to keep working!!," wrote junior Connor Dietrich. "We have much more planned. This is just the beginning," Tyra Hemans said.

The new law also bans the sale or possession of bump fire stocks, gives law enforcement greater power to seize weapons and ammunition from those deemed mentally unfit, and provides additional funding for armed school resource officers.
A controversial part of the new law is known as the Coach Aaron Feis Guardian Program, which arms some teachers if both the local school district and local sheriff's department agree. The $67 million provision is named after the coach who shielded students with his own body and died in last month's shooting.

An NRA statement issued after the governor signed the law said the organization supports increased school security, fixing what it called a broken mental health system and keeping guns away from people who are mentally ill
"Preventing a responsible 20-year-old from purchasing the best tool for self-defense will not stop a deranged criminal intent on committing a crime," the NRA said.

CNN's Dave Alsup, Holly Yan and Ray Sanchez contributed to this report.

What is the 2A group you belong to doing about this Finn? Are they standing at rigid attention chanting, "We will never compromise!"?

The answer is nothing.

exact same thought Lug.

Why isnt the nra suing the feds for not protecting our right to be armed? Why does the nra support age restrictions and permission slips?

Maybe it's because there are limited resources due to the fact that only a small percentage of gun-owners belong and financially support the NRA?

I say they cant be trusted

I say you're wrong.

I addressed this in a thread I started about the Republican nra member governor that signed the bill. The NRA has a history being backsliding fags, and should let an 18-21 year old from Florida sue. The judge will ask Mr. NRA lawyer why he is against this latest compromise when his organization supported so many compromises in the past. That might sting. Keep up with the money pumping.

Seek help

Seek a spine.

seek decaf

Seek reality.

Quite being yes men to two different organizations that have been so demonstrably detrimental to the cause of liberty in the past.

if nothin else,you are passionate.

As you do absolutely nothing but Whineeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

At least the NRA you hate so much is off their backside and doing something.
You or your group? Nothing but whininggggggggggggggggggg

If my whining knocks two wayward braincells together in anyone who reads this, it's worth it.

As in weakening the NRA?
Yea, that will help

The nra doesn't need my help in that endeavor. Wake up, men.

I'm awake,
Your trying to get people to drop out of the NRA, that's weakening them to me.

You should be happey they took up this lawsuit to stop the new law. Someone had to and i didn't read about you doing it, did i miss it?

Why would I sue? The law doesn't hurt me. The judge will hold a doll out and ask where the law hurt the NRA. They won't be able to point to anywhere. It will take an 18-21 year old FloridIan to sue. I'm not even a lawyer and I can see that fact. The NRA sued to milk the donation pipeline when perhaps half of there very own membership support 'reasonable restrictions' in additions to the restrictions they helped to pass in the past.

So doing nothing is best, got it.

I'm gonna do just that and leave you to your whining. Have a good one.

Have a good Saturday Hippie, hopefully the earworm has gotten you.

The NRA has won many lawsuits forcing the repeal of many anti-gun laws.

Here in PA in 2014 they successfully lobbied for a bill that grants them and other advocacy groups legal standing to sue municipalities to overturn local firearm regulations passed in violation of a state law preempting such regulations. And which also allows the court to force cities to pay their legal fees. As soon as it became law, the NRA sued three cities: Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, and Lancaster.

Since then at least 20 Pennsylvania municipalities have rescinded regulations in response to threatened litigation.

Can you name any group that has done anything even close to that Finn?

I can't name any other organization that enters into compromise with enemies of America.

the russians

Devide and Conquer...way to actually join the libs.

Not dividing, motivating.

i think your ramblings here have fortunately been more of a windfall for the NRA than a deterrent but carry on,i'm getting a kick outta this and a look into how the other side thinks.

I hope it is a windfall for the NRA, I hope they gain members and MOST IMPORTANTLY- stop compromising. This may the point in our struggle for firearms where we need similar to Order No. 227 'not one step back' by josiphilus stalin

Maybe you are on to something. Your attitude, along with several others, motivated me to buy 2 year memberships last week for my niece and my nephew. I'm a life member already.

i was only jokin about the Russian thing.

National Firearms Act of 1934 was a knee jerk reaction to gangsters. With this new act full auto, or short barreled firearms, suppressors, all had to be registered. The fee was 200 dollars. (equivalent to about 3500 today) there was a fee whenever one changed hands. There was a fee for each firearm or device. Possession of a NFA firearm without registration or sale to a non NFA registered person, was all a felony. It didn't work. Organized crime just kept organizing and killing.

Since the NFA in 34 didn't work, in 1968 we got an amendment to it. To many law enforcement officers being murdered and organized crime was still rampant. The law need strengthening to resolve the original laws ineffectiveness. So it became a requirement to fill out a form at time of sale identifying yourself. Form had to be kept indefinitely by the dealer. It was a requirement for the buyer to provide I.D. Age limits were set. No more mail order firearms from companies like Sears. Anyone convicted of any felony could not buy a firearm.

Along came slick Willie Clinton in 1993. Told us to many Cops were being murdered and organized criminal gangs were out of control. The first two major gun control acts didn't work because they were not strict enough. So some semi's were banned from further sales. It was now illegal to buy a firearm for even your own child. At time of purchase the dealer must check with the government to make sure the buyer can buy a firearm.

2018 we still have organized gangs that are armed and killing people. We still have a mass murder every now and then. Once again there are cries for more laws. If we just had enough law this stuff would only be known about because of history books. It would no longer occur.

Once again the NRA, staunch defender of the uninfringed right to bear arms, is saying some common sense gun control is ok. It will lower crime rates and hinder organized criminal activity.

The Gov of Florida just sign a bill into law that is against the federal law. You CAN NOT discriminate because of age. This is only one of the reason, there are a few more. I you give the Government a inch they will take a mile. Gun free zone has stopped nothing, and it never will. JMO

The federal law already said you have to be 18 to buy a gun so evidently you can discriminate because of age.

Marty:
A State can not supersede Federal Law. That is why the NRA is taking FL. to court!! You know what bugs me, the NRA is trying to protect everyone right to keep and own a fire arms. If you do not want to own a fire arm, don't I could care less. But do not tell me I can't own one. The NRA is working for the right of the gun owner of the United States.

Actually there are a few states that have superseded federal law by legalizing pot and giving sanctuary to illegal aliens, among other things.

There are many state bans on magazines and types of firearms that are legal under federal laws. Age restrictions on different things may vary from state to state also....like driving, marriage and legal hunting age....among many other things.

I do not agree with not allowing younger folks to buy guns...but there may be precedents that would make it a legal state law although it will have little or no effect on someone who is under 21 and wants to murder people.

Tomorrow morning I am being interviewed by a local TV station about gun regulation etc. I will say that I am dammed proud to be a NRA Life Member. Yes, the NRA compromises on things that do not make sense. Yes, at t he state level there are often stronger groups. Here in PA we have FOAC, a fantastic group of educated, articulate, fearless advocates for the Second Amendment. I am also a FOAC Life Member, and dammed proud of it, too. If the NRA does not appeal to a gun owner, then join a different pro-rights organization. Maybe your state rifle and pistol association? Maybe it's just a NMLRA club shooting ol smokepoles. Whatever it is, if your state has one, and you don't like the NRA for whatever reason, then join and support the state organization. And if you can't do this, then freeloading and whining are your thing. Not exactly the highest and best characteristics.
NRA-up, boys.

x2

The only thing "common sense" has done for us thus far is erode the liberty of law-abiding citizens.

"Common sense" gun control is garbage. It's no more effective than Prohibition was...

Like anything else subject to control... booze, dope, pills... Anyone with money and inclination can get their hands on any gun they want.

Meanwhile the rest of us go through background checks and eschew banned weapons under the moronic delusion that doing so makes the world safer.

Thank God for compromise and "common sense" measures eh?

Mike

The NRA has painted itself into a corner. By supporting the registration and licensing in 34, the ban on mailorder, requirement for ID and paperwork in 68, the background checks in 93, they can not now endorse the repeal of those things. (although they have been somewhat successful getting a few brainwashed members to think NRA had no hand in the suppressor conundrum)

They are constantly whining that many gun owners refuse to support them even though they have on multiple occasions worked against our uninfringeable right. Many many gun owners learned the hard way not to trust them.

X2 no person or organization is perfect. We would really be screwed without them!

While it may be true that no organization is perfect, there are organizationa who have not been party to compromise. There are many people, some even on this thread, who expressed sympathy toward's enacting more 'common sense' gun laws and or have supported the gun lwas now in the books. The NRA is perfect for those people, as it has a history of providing results they agree with. However, if compromise isn't your thing-quit singing the NRA praises, quit calling those that don't belong to Club Compromise as freeloaders and join an organization that more closely mirrors your conviction of no compromise. Or don't join anything-but if your convictions tell you no compromise it makes no sense to send money to compromisers.

So Finn, you are stating here for the record that you are a GOA member, right? And / or a member of the Minnesota Rifle & Revolver Association, MRRA.org, right?
Otherwise, no matter how eloquent the argument and pure the logic, yeah, freeloader is the accurate and correct term.

I am a member of GOA. Just found out about it a few weeks ago through my former platoon sergeant, when I asked him if there was a lobbying group who does not compromise. However, if I weren't, I still wouldn't feel as though I were a freeloader. My creator gave me the right to defend myself. He didn't give 'us' or the federal government any power in that regard. I have no strong inclination to 'be in a a group' to help me 'feel like I'm doing something'. All rights are individual. Period. If, after explaining myself, you still feel I am a freeloader...or that you are correct in thinking ANYONE is a freeloader for not paying dues to some two bit group-you may be part of the problem.

finn, if you served in a platoon, then you know that many together is the most effective way to bring to bear one's forces, and that one individual very rarely can make much difference. we are in a war for our individual rights, to hold on to our rights. pontificating about your rights or even our rights, while so many others around you are digging around their pockets and chipping in to the war effort might sound cool to you, but it is incredibly annoying to others. you are a beneficiary of their sacrifice. You joining GOA is the right thing, given your antipathy toward NRA, and I commend you, for whatever that is worth. For my part, I now no longer think you are a freeloader. Good man. Now about me: I grew up in a very protestant, pacifist family. non-violent war resistors. it has its basis in faith, but to me it is the height of freeloading, for people to stand around condemning others for going off to fight to preserve and defend their rights, to stand around and complain about war-making. I left that faith because I hate freeloading and hypocrisy, so this gun rights issue is the same thing to me. it is a war and we have to win. we need everyone on board and in the platoon to win. I am sensitive about it.

Darn freeloaders.....

If it sets your heart aflutter that we are 'in a war' over your right to self defense than you are digging in with your platoon of friends on a hill to fight a war that doesn't exist. If you believe, as I do, that certain rights are inherant in you-instilled by your creator- than no law, group or organization can take them away. It is impossible. They could kill you, or throw you in prison-yes, but when you enter onto a field of battle to engage with gun grabbers you will end up compromising and end up with less legal right to defend yourself than when the fight began. That is especially true if your platoon is a known group of compromisers. I don't comment on here to drag down the NRA, or to call your compromising ideals less than mine. I comment to hopefully open someone's eyes that if you do not believe in compromise to not send money to compromisers. It isn't rocket science, and I am not personally offended that you would think me a freeloader-only disappointed.

Finn would you encourage others to join and swell the ranks of GOA and/or the 2AF?

Mike

No. Just as the right is singularly in you, so is the decision to join a group that someday the group may decide to compromise on a future issue. Join, don't join-matters none to me. However, if you do join up, know what the history of the group is and how that jives with your personal view on the issue at hand.

I'm not understanding what action you are taking Finn. Are you saying you won't engage in a legal battle with gun-grabbers because you believe that your rights are unalienable and therefore, by definition, cannot be denied?

I wasn't very clear with my question...

But your answer was the jist of what I was looking for.

Mike

I keep hearing God and my creator in these debates about gun rights, but wasn't it our founding fathers that gave us our rights? God may have gave us the natural ability to defend ourselves.

Nobody expects you to understand MY action! I am asking you to look at and understand your OWN action! If you're fine with compromise, fine. Fine and dandy- if you're not fine with compromise.....wait for it ......don't give your money to compromisers and act surprised when your version of policy is never realized.

https://www.saf.org/

The Second Amendment Foundation does a lot.

I still give to the NRA, and my State Sportsmen’s Association.

I might give extra to the NRA because is makes certain people mad.

The founding fathers and the Constitution didn't "give" you your rights. Your rights already existed.

The Constitution RECOGNIZES the rights that are yours because you're a human being.

Whether you believe in a Creator or natural process it isn't hard to see that humans have an innate desire to...

· Speak (or not speak) freely about ideas, beliefs, and opinions.

· Believe/worship or not believe/worship

· Share one's beliefs, ideas, opinions through various forms

· Defend one's life or way of life

· Tell your side of the story to your peers when you stand accused of wrongdoing

· Expect privacy

· Not have your life, liberty, or property taken from you without a trial to determine sufficient cause to take them

· Have a voice in how you will be governed

You get the idea...

Mike

I have to admit that I haven't read much of this thread . Maybe this has already been hashed over but tell me what the NRA has compromised on.

What organizations have never compromised and how long have they been established?

Its been seven hours since the last post. Hope that is enough time to run up a google search to find the answer to the question you asked. Doing the search yourself will be more productive to you than me doing the same (again) and providing links to the articles. Good luck in your search and i hope you find whatever you are looking for.

I'm the curious type. I only ask for edification. You seem to be a very artful dodger.

Think the way i do or else.

That's definitely what it seems like around here on the gun rights issues.

Let me ask you this then, are you a member of any state or national trapping organization?

No doubt.
Certain issues some look for and say their same spiel over and over and over............
Who's the one pushing their view is the biggest question?


( I don't consider the ones defending their decision to support a group, or not as pushing their veiw apon anyone. It's when they look it up and tells others to do as they believe.)

That's his way of saying he either can't or doesn't want to answer your question.

BTW Finn, i'm not saying i'm not a guilty party.

What does a trappers association have to do with this discussion? You don't want me to delve into my state trapping association, or the 'special' northern trappers association of my state who's sole existence is to prevent non resident trapping. Let's not go there or the whole thread will go bye bye in about a minute and a half. There is, however a new association with the acronym CTM, that I may join very soon.

I'm not understanding what you're saying.

No one expects you to understand!

Have you ever compromised on anything?

What FlyinFinn calls compromise I call betrayal.

Regarding guns? No.
Because of your signature I don't need to ask the same question of you in regards to guns.

So your not a member of any national trapping organization either?

No, I am not.

I respect all the opinions posted do I agree with all of them NO, But after reading lots of the post I re-joined the NRA for two years. Do I agree with the NRA 100% NO. But it is the best we have. JMO

Sorry wrong, pg.

I am actually quite surprised (and maybe I shouldn't even put this out there) that the NRA in all their wheelings and dealings in lawmaker payoffs hasn't made it mandatory to become an NRA member as a condition of owning a firearm.

The point most are pointing out, and you are missing, is the NRA has been the number 1 fighter (by a long shot)for you and I's gun rights. They have given up little to no ground in my lifetime, and what was lost was hard fought. I personally don't know of anything new gun laws they didn't fight that were detrimental to owning a gun.

But hey, kill the NRA and your in the same boat as us.

And i will point out, no one said you had to join until you came on and demagogued the NRA.

ya showed up to a gunfight with a butterknife

I don't care if my opinion is unpopular. I express it in case there are others out there who feel the same way I do when it comes to compromise of the 2nd amendment. I can keep this up all day, it keeps the thread on the 1st page and in front of more eyeballs. I will say once again; if you do not want compromise do not be party to an organization of compromise.

lost me when you said you don't support trapping,is it cause they won't let you have teeth on the traps anymore??

Money talks and $%#^ walks.

That is a great recruiting slogan. Much more truthful and to the point than '...cold dead hands'.

I used to belong to the NRA for many years. I dropped my membership because I got tired of all the mailings, offers to send me stuff I didn't need, and two months after I paid my membership asking me to pay another year or two of my membership. I'd still be a member if it weren't for that.

Still don't know why Finn keeps thinking the NRA has been compromising away our rights to own a firearm. Wish he'd offer some factual information.

Here is a little nugget for those that think the NRA hasn't compromised in their lifetime; The NRA supported and helped to write portions of the Brady bill, specifically the part that requires background checks.

I think we can all find a reason to not do something, if one does not wish to join an org. don't but to run them down for not doing exactly what you think should be done is disingenuous. The NRA is still the best bang for the buck no matter how imperfect. I knew a guy that quit a trapping org. because the magazine was smaller.

I'm not going to spoon feed you the information. If you don't care enough to look it up yourself-than you're obviously OK with the past performance and where we are now. Good good. If you don't believe me, I doubt you'd believe any instances or Web Links I posted either- but if I did spark an interest the info is relatively easy to find.

So, you think background checks are a bad thing?

See? Rat is a good example. He admits the NRA isn't perfect but that it's good enough for him. Good good. For those that it is not OK (those who want less infringement ) there are other organizations that don't compromise, or don't belong to any. Your choice as it your personal conviction dealing with your inhearnt rights.

Yes, background checks are a bad thing.

Trapper7 NRA supported the gun control acts of 34 and 68 though at the time they were not exactly a lobbying group. In 68 Charlton Hesston was on TV in ads telling everybody what a great thing gun control was.

When Bill Clinton was pushing for insta check, the NRA, a 100% lobbying group by now, promising to fight all infringements on the right to bare arms, spent a LOT of money supporting it. The NRA sent out flyers and called them "polls". The polls were in fact extoling the need for back ground checks at time of sale.

Now the NRA is continually pretending to be on your side fighting the "gun show loophole" crowd. There is no loophole but the whole notion came about because of the not so instant insta check. The insta check the NRA SUPPORTED.

I get a laugh when they talk about saving hearing by doing away with licensing suppressors also. The NRA was a backer of the 1934 act that required the license.

There is a start for you trapper7. Quit being lazy. Do your own research.

The REAL goal of the NRA is to keep making money, lots of money, for a handful of people at the top of their food chain.

Your incorrect IF i remember right Finn.
Didn't that set up the INSTANT background checks? Or the NICS?

That was actually good for us. Begfore that, we had to wait 3 days here for our background check, where as now we walk out the same day with the gun.

If you think ANY of these 2nd amendment infringements has ever lowered the percentage of crime you are living in fantasy land.

So, if I understand you correctly, you think anybody that wants a gun should have access to it, no questions asked?

Why did the citizens of PA allow a 3 day waiting period in the first place Hippie????????????? Where was the NRA when that debacle was being created?????????????????

For an analogy, was no speed limits, than it turned to say 55mph. You join and pay an organization to get rid of speed limits again. They get the limit raised to 60mph. Oh good golly, what a great thing.

And just what have you and Finns groups amounted to?

ZIP, Nadda, Nothing, Zilch, Zero, a fart in the wind, but you come here telling people to not support a pro-gun org. Put up or shut up is what i've always been told.

In fact, it's proven where there are more stringent gun controls in force, firearm violence is much more prevalent. Places like Chicago, Detroit, DC, etc.

I don't know, i wasn't born yet.

Where was your group? Why didn't your better way stop it?

I guess you missed the part where I said I quit the NRA. Obviously, you aren't a member either.

Put up or shut up<< another great recruiting slogan.

Hey I'm just telling the rest of the story. If you don't want to hear it quit reading.

Trapper 7 those laws stop people who want to commit a crime about as well as they stop junkies from buying heroin. They are also UNCONSTITUTIONAL. If we allow our right to be armed to be compromised how long before our right to assemble gets infringed on or our right to free speech or religion or to be represented in government? Quit thinking like a subject and embrace your liberty.

I'm not Finn but get tired of people telling me the NRA is a wonderful organization and I should support them no matter what. Or at least as long as they claim to be my advocate in Washington.

The two guys spending a lot of time on this thread bashing the NRA refuse to give us a better alternative, a better place to spend our dollars in defense of 2A. Even though they have been asked repeatedly to do so. Why is that?

As has been pointed out repeatedly on this thread, the NRA is the most effective gun lobby in this Country, period.

I wish you two would put up an answer or shut up.

do you belong to any trappers org's danny even though they allowed the gov.to take away our rights to use teeth on traps.did the nta let that happen??

hippie, I didn't stop it or fight it because quite frankly living east of the Mississippi river has never interested me. Not even a little bit. Wasn't my business is what I thought when I was young. The older I get though the smaller the world gets and I see how infringement of constitutionally RECOGNIZED rights in any part of our country have a negative effect on all of us.

I belong to the FTA pc2 though I've no clue what that has to do with this. BTW teeth on traps are not banned everywhere. Its not a federal law its some state's law. Teeth on traps is not a constitutionally recognized right not to be infringed on.

How is it bashing? I am telling you to look at what is going on. If you're fine with that-FINE! If not join another organization that better suits you or don't join any at all. Don't get your undies all in a wad because I'm not falling in for a lock step march down the road of compromise.

Lugnut the best group to join is the group at your polling station on election day. There have already been some organizations mentioned that want to see our right restored 100%. If you don't want to read the posts quit asking for answers. Do you need somebody to hold your hand and point them out?????????????

How'd you 2 survive Waco.

The two guys spending a lot of time on this thread bashing the NRA refuse to give us a better alternative, a better place to spend our dollars in defense of 2A. Even though they have been asked repeatedly to do so. Why is that?

As has been pointed out repeatedly on this thread, the NRA is the most effective gun lobby in this Country, period.

I wish you two would put up an answer or shut up.

At this time there is in my opinion no better option or more correctly organization to carry the water for gun owners. That being said being the only resource puts tremendous responsibility on that organization to be knowledgeable about what may well be the best course to take when 80 plus million depend upon your stances. I think one of the larger issues that the politicians on a federal level will face is not the gun issue and the NRA. It is the fact that a huge percentage of those that are strong 2nd amendment rights advocates also advocate for many other very conservative causes, such as abortion, private education, vouchers, less social programs for say drug addiction etc. etc. As we have more social issues and with a widening of the income gap from the majority and the fewer wealthy the voters are going to make choices that will best fit their position and or situation. The way we are playing politics today can well dismantle long held solid values just as a consequence of not paying attention to where our culture is moving toward.


Bryce

I've said it already numerous times GUN OWNERS OF AMERICA!!! If no compromise is your thing-there is an organization. Join it, don't join it. IDGAF. I'll say this once again as well; if compromise is your thing, stay with the NRA.

And I'll say it again, "GOA is weak and ineffectual compared to the NRA!"

Nothing wrong with belonging to both or multiple groups. But no group mentioned on this thread has the political clout and financial backing to get things done the way the NRA does. And they have done far more good for gun owners than any other group.

You two may not like it, but those are the facts.

Keep sending your dues and maybe if the newsletter gets you advance notice of the next Gun related compromise up YOUR sleeve you can give the rest of some notice too.

The newsletter have anything about compromising 18-21 year olds away, yet?

It said something about suing a state that enacted that law.

What's your group doing about it?

Sending out flyers saying, "We will not compromise!"?

Lugnut, its the same mentality that makes them vote third party. They feel like rebels with all the right causes, but in the end it does nothing to help keep gun rights. Sometimes you have to back a "less than perfect" solution because its far and away better than the alternatives. You can back someone who has a chance of helping or throw away your money/vote so you can get on your high horse say "I told you so." When whoever everyone else backed doesn't prove to be perfect. (Even though we all knew they weren't in the first place.)

My neighbor, like me, doesn't want to give an inch on any gun legislation, seeing how we think alike I'm going to give him $20 to advocate for that. Now I've done my part I can cling to my convictions.LOL

There are a lot more than two who can see the NRA for what it is. That is why at least half their "what your supposed to think and send us money" letters talk about gun owners who refuse to join.

Trapper7
The very same reason I dropped my membership, but I rejoined this week.

There are more than three-hundred-million gun owners in America. Five million are members of the NRA. There are a lot of freeloaders who have come up with a lot of reasons not to support the number one defender of your 2A rights.

If any of you can show be a better alternative I'll support it in a heartbeat.

Cannot fix stupid....

A phone call will stop the annoying mailings. I haven't received them for years.

We now we go back to the 'freeloader' recruitment tactics.

I'm not trying to recruit anybody. My freeloader comments were directed at...well...the freeloaders.

Imagine the power the NRA or any other pro-gun group would have if the freeloaders would get off their butts and quit letting a small percentage of us pull their weight.

If the group doesn't support your views on gun ownership- it is better off for the group and the individual to not send $ to that group, especially if you care to move policy to a more pro gun stance than that group supported and wrote legislation for. The NRA doesn't cut the mustard for me and I don't fear saying that. If you agree- quit sending them money and they will stop being the biggest political palm greasers and another group with stronger conviction can move to the
chief-of-palm-greasers position.

On the flip side if the NRA had say 100 million members, they would not have to compromise.

Have to?????????????????????????????

That may be true, but their history would still be a 500 pound gorilla in the room.

I took the option of being a regular donor over a membership, I would rather have them use the money for better things than a magazine subscription and the little things.

dogdown:
That's is what I should have done! Great idea.

Google National Coalition to Ban Handguns. Know you know why there is a separation between Church and State. Sorry off subject!!

I wouldn't say that is OT. It pays to know who your enemies are!

300 million owners? Cut that in half and you'd be closer. Still a lot of freeloaders though

I was a card carrying dues paying member for a lot of years. Bought their tales of how great the NRA was also. Then like Monica Lewinski they decided to play with Slick Willie Clinton. I wouldn't take Monica to a drive in movie either.

FWIW I used to buy a lot of lot of licenses from the Colorado Division of Wildlife also. Hunting, trapping fishing. Then they refused to support trapping when it came time to vote. that vote was very close. I believe they would have made a difference. Haven't bought a license since.

I got that number from the Pew Research Center .

"There are by various estimates anywhere from 270 million to 310 million guns in the United States" — I thought it said gun owners, I added a word in there, my mistake.

I did some more research and it's harder than I thought it would be to get a definitive number on gun ownership. Best I could come up with was roughly 250,000,000 legal adults 18 and over in the US as of 2016 and about 30% of them say they own guns. That equals about 75,000,000 gun owners or about a quarter what I said.

I wonder what percentage of those belongs to a pro-gun group?

Not near enough. Sure is a lot of sorry excuses out there.

Two things really bother me.

#1 is Gun owners who say things like background checks or semi bans or full auto bans, or only be allowed with permission of some government employee, those things are fine, so long as my firearm is legal or so long as I am allowed to be armed.

#2 is people who refuse to vote or refuse to educate their self before they vote. Basing their choice on a tv ad or 3.

I think background checks are fine.....full auto is fine as is currently regulated.

OK FF, you want to bring up history, just where would gun owners be today at this point in history without any NRA ?? Think of all the legislation that has been introduced at the federal, and state level, and the different types of restrictions, and bans that have been suggested at all levels of gun ownership, look at all the whole picture. Think about where you might be as a gun owner today without the NRA, and that image in a gun owner mind should be enough to compel any gun owner to join the NRA.

RTT

yup.

I agree 100%.

If he answers you at all Ringtail, it will be a dodge of the question, an artful one, but a dodge nonetheless.

It wasn't the NRA that stopped those things. It was fear of election day fallout. NRA doesn't have enough members to make politicians nervous. They are good at raising money though. Politicians give them lip service to get some of it. The more in the news they are the more donations they get.

Anti gun people like those who support background checks, no mail order without paying a dealer, no full auto without permission of some anonymous bureaucrat, and all the other infringements of our natural rights, like to have a scape goat to blame when their leaders tell them the world would be safer if we could just have more laws in place.

The degradation and watering down, by compromise, of the second amendment is only slowed by organizations that rely upon compromise to wheedle favor with scumbag politicians who take advantage of the trust given them by prostituting the Constitution.
The Constitution, though flawed, is an excellent guide to limit government. To me, of all that it contains, the 2nd amendment needs the least amount of wheedle money and bluffery. Ultimately, it will be degraded enough that we won't have weapons or we use our weapons to reset a tyrannical government back to what the constitution limits it to. An amendment that is far more perverted, twisted and in need of help is the 4th amendment. It has been trampled upon and it has no group of blowhards to send money 'for it's defense'. Our government has outright, unequivocally told us that it reads our every keystroke and records our every phone call. America shrugged it's collective shoulders, elected the same party that was in control when the spying began and even now cares little.
So, in closing, to answer where we would be without the NRA; I have no idea. We may have used our arms to reset our government back to being limited by the constitution before I was even born.

Past December our warden caught a guy without orange, with a loaded rifle, after shooting hours, trespassing. He'd had a previous license revocation for the same thing, and multiple other citations over the years. He has a terrible reputation among a lot of hunters in the area for trespassing, night hunting, etc. Demanded and got a hearing, but was convicted despite all of the twisting and turning he did. "Never saw anyone try to muddy the water more or better than this guy," the warden told me. I am going to nickname this guy Flyin Finn because of the mental gymnastics and acrobatics on display here.
We The People...stand united, or fall separately.
Or maybe Finn is starting his own national gun rights organization?

Danny, don't you think it appears like you are pulling these statements out of your sleeve? Credibility may not matter to some people. There is not a single political activist or elected official or pollster who would agree with you that the NRA is ineffective. Most of them hate the NRA because they are effective, because they punch way above their weight class. In fact the whole Parkland shooting outcome is all about trying to destroy the NRA, because it is correctly seen as the most effective defender of 2nd Amendment rights. The NRA gives away a pittance, a tiny eensy weensy fraction of the money that the anti gun groups give away in elections and marches and "education." Labor unions (which are allied with just one political party) alone annually give away about ten times what the NRA has donated over the past twenty years. There is no comparison about money. Where the NRA shines is exactly where you say they do not make a difference, and that is in local and state elections. Sometimes in national elections. But if it makes you feel superior to those of us carrying your weight, then carry on...

I am unsure of why you feel the need to sully my good name simply because you disagree with my opinion PAlltheway. Someone asked me a question, I answered it the best I could. I've said it several times, if you don't mind compromise - join the NRA. I won't think less of you, or compare you to a poacher because of your position. My interpretation of the second amendment is more freedom oriented than that group is aiming for.

FlyinFinn and all the other freeloaders, maybe the NRA wouldn't compromise if all the gun owners would stand up and be counted instead of coming up with pathetic excuses.

They are not forced to compromise. Compromise is one of their core values and I believe if everyone who ever held a rifle sent $, they would be likely to still compromise. Past performance is quite often used as an indicator of future behavior. it is refreshing to see you admit they do compromise, that is considered the first step.