Questions about Home defense shotgun.

I have it narrowed down to a 20 gauge Remington 870 express or Mossberg 500. They seem reasonable and I really like the 870 as I have had one for hunting my whole life. I like the extra capacity versions and will probably replace the stock with an adjustable shock absorbing stock. Maybe mount a flashlight on the side with a mount that clamps on the barrel and magazine.

As you can see, I’m looking for a light and low kicking gun so my wife enjoys it as well.

I am not sure Remington is even making a high capacity gun in 20 anymore. They used to and there are some out there. Some even come with ghost ring sights a rail and a fancy choke for opening doors I guess.

Questions:

Does anyone recommend the ghost ring sights for Home defense? They seem overkill?

Does anyone know of a good stock that is easily adjustable for pull and shock absorbing? I’m looking at a Phoenix Tech kikstock.

Any good clamp and light combos? I’d like a bright light that won’t be ruined with recoil.

I would like to keep the forend stock.

Thanks for any advice.

go with the 870 cause your familiar with it. when you are near panic (if you need to kill somebody you will be)you don't want to have to remember how to operate your firearm.

Those were my thoughts as well. I have used a wingmaster for over 30 years hunting.

One good point for the Mossberg is the safety is on top so it is great for right or left hand shooters. I've had both and you can't go wrong with either.

I like the Mossberg safety as well. I don't like pistol grips on shotguns but if you do the Mossberg safety becomes a pita.

So much going on today.

Why are you now considering home defense?

What kind of home do you live in?

Do you have children?

Shot guns are long.

Bird shot will still go through walls. Even low brass trap loads.

Just saying there is so more to consider here.

You'll get lots of good advice here.

Good luck.

Go with the Remington 870. Using a familiar shotgun in a high stress, possibly low light situation, when things are going very bad, will much more likely make thing end in your favor, than using a gun you are unfamiliar with.

870s are very reliable guns, which is why most police departments use them.

For me, shooting an 870 just feels comfortable and natural. Every deer and most of the game animals I have killed with a shotgun, in the last 30 years, has been killed with an 870.

Keith

great point.

X2 the safety.

What you not going for the perfect home defense AR ??????


Sorry couldn't help myself .......................

I have a couple carry pistols in a quick access safe in my room. I’d actually like something for my wife and son to have in the room if need be. Good points though. My son is 8 and I have been shooting with him for a couple years now. I’d like something he could shoot at some point too. Thanks.

Familiar with my pistols and shotguns. Maybe an ar for fun soon, but I’m a long way from using one for defense.

Same here. I know the feeling. I just see so many nice mossberg shotguns I start wanting one! Probably not the best choice for self defense though.

$349 at PSA

Not sure why you need a shock absorbing stock.

I think you are on track. Don't worry about what the nay-sayers rant about regarding penetrating walls and bystanders, etc. A little common sense safety for your particular situation will overcome all that crap.

A couple tips along what you are considering are:

• Cut down the barrel to a legal length, somewhat over 18"
• Install a tube extension for add'l capacity
• Shorter, (2',2 1/4" OR 2 1/2" loads will also add to ammo count.
• Buckshot, slugs, even birdshot will all stop an intruder, use whatever you are comfortable with. Remember you are responsible for that wherever it ends up

Maybe I'll post a pic or two of some of my stash guns, time permitting.

Was thinking of my wife and son. I just want them to like shooting it. Probably not needed, but the stock is nice otherwise too. Is there any problem with them? I have never even seen one in real life.

I really want the easy to adjust pull length.......

They usually have 18.5 or 20 inch barrels stock. I’d get one that already has the extra capacity. I’d love to see what you use.

That’s cool but I think I want a stock for the wife. She wouldn’t try that.

I think I heard some bad things about those stocks....maybe. I would research that before purchase.

I like the 870. The operating systems are very intuitive...safety, slide release. I like handgun in very close quarters.

Just going to leave this right here...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews...truders-n739541

Mike

Forget the rail and the light and all the gadgetry !

Just more crap to malfunction or fool around with when micro-seconds count. Remember too, that that light gives someone a target to shoot at

I will research them. Thanks.

wow

I hear both sides of this. I just don’t know how I would carry a light with a shotgun. With my pistols it’s easy.

I've had 870's forever and one 500. I didn't like the safety and I hated cleaning it because the trigger group isn't one piece like the Remington. I've got a 12ga 870 with a SpecOps stock and a +2 magazine extension. It actually has a ghost ring sight on it. I don't really think the sight would come into play in close quarters home defense enough to warrant specifically adding it. I would probably stick with the 870 if that's what you're familiar with.

410/.45 revolver is an awesome close quarters gun that anyone can shoot/operate. Pull trigger...

That is sweet. Love hikock45 and Smith and Wesson revolvers. I think I want that too!

Even with a pistol in low light conditions I prefer to NOT use a light. Yes I have trained both ways. I want both hands on the piece and available to handle magazine changes if needed. I can see a tactical light used to blind someone long enough to deal with the situation but generally I'll rely on my front sight. Night sights go a long way in eliminating the need for a flashlight, IMO

That’s good info. I think I will stick with the 870.

Its hard to buy the 'correct' gun for a number of people to use when its a life and death situation that you are planning for.

Especially when there are a woman and kids involved. Maybe there is a range close where they have some rentals? Home invasions can be brutal.

I do have tritium sights on my carry gun. I like them and see your point. I have not had any training at all.

I would encourage you to get some really professional training. Gunsite Academy is top of the line. They include low light, dark, indoor simulators with all sorts of real-world scenarios in their training, as well as outdoor, square range and simulators..

For what it's worth, I keep two shotguns well-hidden but easily accessible in my home. Both are kept in cruiser ready condition; full magazine, empty chamber, safety off, trigger pulled so that the hammer/firing pin is down/released.

All pump shotguns in cruiser ready condition operate exactly the same. Simply work the slide and you are ready to fire. No safety or action release to fumble with.

And, in a time of crises, there is the added benefit of the sound of the slide being racked. The universal warning that tells any bad guy to get out now before things turn deadly.

I have access to some different shotguns I can borrow. I see your point. Mainly I want something that she is comfortable locking herself in a room with the kid. I figure if someone came through the door and she was prepared with some buckshot they would be safe. I just have to get her used to shooting it. She’s good with pistols, but is not good with a semi auto. She’s not interested enough to learn how to deal with problems and has a limp wrist. She likes my 642 but that’s not much compared to a few 20 gauge shots.

I also want to have fun with it. Not sure when my son will be ready for it but he loves to shoot.

I will look into it. Thank you.

Think it thru well and you will make the correct decision...its good to plan for bad.

I don't hold with the "slide rack warning" argument...

It gives away my general location and which direction/doorway I am likely to be coming from.

If someone is determined enough to break in my occupied home, they are likely determined enough to train a weapon on my bedroom doorway and wait for me to expose myself.

Everyone has different situations and considerations. So each person will have to examine their unique situation and prepare accordingly.

Mike

I love shotguns. Big ones, small ones, short ones long ones. Brown ones black ones even camoflauge ones.

Ah do-wop zip a doop bang.

equal opportunity shotgun lover.

Tritium sights are very nice.....But:

you cannot turn them off.

they will be clearly visible to someone else at close quarters, the darker it is the more visible they will be.

sat in pitch dark with a guy 20' away who had a holstered pistol with tritium sights...the angle was just right and I could not see the person but I could see the sights clearly.

just something to be aware of.

I was being sarcastic because so many on here say they need them to defend their homes...LOL

Hey don't laugh but seriously look into the Mossberg 500 that comes with the slug barrel. It serves dual purpose or even 4 uses. The regular barrel comes with screw in chokes which can be used for turkeys, rabbits, doves. The slug barrel works for deer and is the perfect length for home defense. Dunhams had them last deer season for 299 with mail in rebate. This one gun can be used for all species your son can hunt. I ordered a camo kit off the inter net and camoed the gun and turkey barrel..... !!!!

I guess if your an international spy and are concerned with trained assassins coming after you that might be a valid argument.

If someone is determined enough to break in my occupied home, they are going to be fighting off/shooting at my crazy dog and all (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman) is going to be breaking loose. The bad guy(s) will likely never hear me rack my cruiser ready shotgun. So I guess it's a mute point.

They are not visible when you are looking at the business end of a firearm.

I love my green rear/red front sight Tritium set up. It keeps you from lining up the front sight to either side of the rear dots (easy to do when they are all the same color).

I like my ole Ithica mod. 37. It's a slam firing son of a gun!
Dennis

I like them both, but I can with out a doubt load the 500 faster than the 870

so a good question is will it be loaded or unloaded mag tube full and no round in the chamber perhaps

the 500 has the benefit of being good for right or left handers

even though you are familiar with the 870 if your wife and son are not and this one is for them good questions to ask are are they both right handed

the 870 does allow adding additional length to the mag tube for greater capacity

The nra also has all kinds of training classes and probably in your area ,they have one called self defense in the home that is really awesome for some one in your situation both you and your wife can attend . And by the way I am not Knocking gunsite it is on my bucket list it's just a long drive for me.

What about dirty ones? They have been the most fun!.

I LIKEY!
One for each hand.

I keep handguns for home defense. It would be pretty easy for someone to grab the barrel of a long gun while clearing the various rooms of a house.

Jim

if it is for the wife and kid room clearing probably isn't the task more like barricaded in the bedroom taken up aim on the door

Good point.

Jim

Both right handed. I think the secure storage will require it be open.

I will look into it. Thank you.
The nra also has all kinds of training classes and probably in your area ,they have one called self defense in the home that is really awesome for some one in your situation both you and your wife can attend . And by the way I am not Knocking gunsite it is on my bucket list it's just a long drive for me.
[/quote]

I found a local place that does NRA defense training. Good call.

He won’t run out of shells

Yes, I would have my carry gun and his big brother. Ruger SR9c and SR9.

I see Remington makes a mode 870 DM, now. It has detachable box magazine. I don't know why you would want that but I guess my first shotgun, .410 Stevens bolt action had a detachable box magazine, too.

Anyways... I have a Rem 870 Junior which is even smaller than the youth model. It's a 20 ga but takes 3" shells. I keep a Mini Mag Light clamped under the barrel for times when I want to use it in the dark - usually that's looking for skunks & such outside the house on summer nights. But anyway, I like the small size of this gun for home defense and being able to put it in a backpack and carry through the park to get the canoe launched on the river for a duck hunt.

Lugnut I agree with you. They'd be to busy fighting off my dogs to hear me racking a round.

does open mean unloaded?


you probably want to go Remington since you are familiar with it and they are all right handed , the youth model with he 21 inch barrel, is a very nice handling little gun , I have thought about guying one for myself and adding length to the stock , I didn't I ended up with a very good deal on a used 500c

Remington who owns H&R has the H&R pardner pump and the pardner pump compact is almost identical to the 870 youth , the down side is Remington is making these in china

typically the 870 and pardner pump the only thing not interchangeable is the barrel and nut to hold the barrel on metric thread , the 870 barrel will go on the pardner with a spacer but not the other way around because the pardner has a 5+1 magazine , except in the compact which is 4+1 just like the 870 youth.

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/20983/Firearms/Shotguns/Harrington+and+Richardson/H%26R+1871+NP1-2S1+Pardner+Compact+4%2B1+3+20ga+21

Now this is an angle I haven't thought of in years. A technique I learned is to use the barrel as a lever to break the grip on the barrel by moving it in a circular motion and thrusting forward to get the barrel past the forearm of the grabber and use as a fulcrum.
I still believe a street howitzer is far superior to any pistol for clearing rooms.

room clearing is really a team sport

Just a word about the extra capacity:

Unless you plan on regularly replacing the man/tube spring; don't use it all. My guns are always loaded, meaning the spring is always compressed. Over time they are sure to deform. My primary chamber gun is a Win 1200 and holds (7) 2 3/4" rounds with the extended tube. I keep it loaded with (5).

GREENCOUNTYPETE , it would be loaded. I would just have to rack it forward. The wall mount by Hornady I want has an insert that fits in the open breech. That’s what keeps it from being pulled out.

Good to know

I have the phoenix on a 870 20 ga youth model and love it.

Go with what you know.

Does the movement of the stock, or gun in the stock I guess, have any issues? Pinching anything at all?

the 870 youth 4+1 add +3 mag tube extender to make it 7+1 then store 6 in the gun action open in your wall mount
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/217112...t-20-gauge-blue

this should come to about an inch less than the 21 inch barrel

sure fire G2 light on off only 300 lumen and mount that works with the choate 20ga tube and 870 20ga https://www.amazon.com/Gear-Might-Mount-Remington-20ga/dp/B01C9TT1WC/ref=sr_1_1?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1521233675&sr=1-1&keywords=20ga+shotgun+light+mount

Nice. I may do the same. How’s the choate extension? Solid? No hang ups?

I bought a old stevens shotgun 12 gauge and just cut the barrel down.

Streamlight tlr-1 hl is a very good weapon light...it will easily blind someone.

I think several people have said that now. I’ll look into it. Can it be programmed to be full on or off without a bunch of levels or strobe effects in between?

Surprised nobody mentioned a simple Side by Side Shotgun for home defense.

I thought "Uncle Joe Biden" took care of that on national TV

either way it won't fit in the Hornady Rapid ready safe he is planning to use

can't say on the 20 , Choate seems to be the only option for the 20ga , but it has good reviews

I have heard that they use the same spring for the +3 and +4 tubes so you install then load to max and if you can't get 7 in the tube you cut a coil off of the spring and try again till you can I would recommend using 2 3/4 shells not 3 , you just don't need the longer shell.

Marty, I Handled that S&W Governor at a gun shop today. I think I'm in love!

It ain't no carry gun. I wouldn't rule it out as a home defense even if it is only .410. That's because it is also .45ACP. I figure mix and match a little .410 and .45.

Laying in bed, awakened by an intruder, it would be much easier to grab, aim, and shoot from an almost lying position.

On the down side: $739 bucks, without shopping, and it ain't no 12 ga.

even the 410 buckshot has less penetration than a 22lr , it just can't get the velocity in such a short barrel , remember 410 shells are made for a 18 inch barrel.

the 45lc is limited to 19,000psi the 410 is down around 10,000 psi great you just cut the pressure to push the payload out the barrel almost in half , and you took the barrel from 18 to 3 inches from the long barrel you were only going to get going 1100fps , from the short barrel 700-900 fps

and because the barrel is rifles it spins shot into a wide pattern at just a few yards

unless your popping snakes you would be much better off with the S&W M625-jm 6 rounds 45acp with more in moon clips ready to go about the same weight and size.


my opinion is the judge and govern is a big gimic

The Governor comes with moon clips to fire .45ACP. So, you can mix and match rimmed and rimless ammo. You aren't limited to .45LC

I would not want to be shot with a 410 from a governor...

Me neither. From now on, I'm limiting my home invasions.

if I had to choose between 45acp and #6 shot with a heavy coat on , I am hoping for center mass #6 hit , It may hurt but at 15 feet it isn't going to kill me through a heavy coat a hooded sweat shirt and a t-shirt

if any one has a judge or governer and wants to try this say on a wooden cut out witha section of news paper taped to it , then a t-shirt then a sweat shirt and a old coat I wager with #6 from 15 feet and a 3 inch barrel that less than 5 pages of the paper are full pass through.

https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/...Category=117529

I ain't ruling out that Governor yet, but, this is standing guard, as we speak.

It sounds like GREENCOUNTYPETE has some kind of death wish.

As long as my old lady is in charge of the thermostat; that ain't what you're going to be wearing

I saw on the news some chick is being charged for killing her boyfriend. They decided to prove that an encyclopedia would stop a bullet. It didn't.

Harp all you want, I'm perfectly confident any home invader checks in; but, doesn't check out.

Just so there is no misunderstanding:

It has been scientifically proven that Bumblebees can't fly.

None so far. I like it. I am not totally sold on the recoil reduction but I like the adjustability of it.

[quote=bhugo
Does the movement of the stock, or gun in the stock I guess, have any issues? Pinching anything at all?[/quote]

As long as we are doing fifth grade experiments:

I'll bet I can break an egg thrown at a plywood cutout.

I'll bet it won't break thrown at an blanket hanging from a line.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRlry5KH6I0

watch this he does 7 1/2 first then #6 at the 11 minute mark

I said if I had to choose 45 or #6 from a judge I would pick 6

I pick not putting myself in that situation.

Got your face covered? Got your hands covered? I hope you are wearing a steel cup! I'm a terrible shot.

and at 15 feet your spread would be 2-3 feet wide from the short barrel judge .

did you watch the video?

seeing the actual penetration UN-sells the judge with shot shells very fast.

with the spread over a foot at 3 yards each is an individual pellet and not a single mass a #6 pellet is 1.99grains a .177 lead pellet for an air rifle is 7.5gr and at 900fps at 5 yards very close to the equivalent of being shot with a red ryder bb gun a dozen times at once , it's going to hurt but probably not incapacitate. your home invader might be picking shot out with a tweezers but no way at 15 feet it makes any vital organ they may die of the infection but that takes a lot longer than him getting that last 15 feet and beating you with the crowbar in his hand.

I decided bird shot on a man was a bad idea when I shot a raccoon 3 times with bird shot 20ga #6 shot starting about 20 feet to about 30 feet and didn't get a stop I could see I was hitting it in the body each time the pattern was about 3-4 inches , my 4th shot was a slug.

it may have killed it eventually but it didn't stop it.

your goal is not death in hours it is a stop now.

Nope. Didn't bother with you video.

Did you read my post? .45 ACP or 45 LC can be mixed with .410. I'm not sure where you got the idea that #6 shot was a good idea with the .410. And, you have no idea of what velocity I may be loading them at. Six shots from the Governor will put my mind to rest. How will your stylish clothing stand up to say:

• (3) rounds of .410 buck, each with (4) balls
• (3) shots of either .45 ACP or .45LC.

There may be a miss or two. But, I sure wouldn't want to be downrange.

I honestly don't know what the spread might be out of a handgun. I do know my 12 ga buck out of an 18" barrel spreads to the size of a softball at home defense range. There is a lot of energy if you know how to harvest it.

Breneke makes a great .410 slug.....I posted a link to it in one of the above posts.

It is really about having a gun available that the people who will be using it are comfortable firing. The governor/similar handguns may fit that role and with the right ammo could be very effective.

One thing is that if it is an actual home invasion the threat may be wearing body armor....standard soft 3a will defeat 12 gauge slugs. But the wearer will most likely be knocked down and appear incapacitated......but will not be for long.

Something to be aware of for sure.

Great! But, who needs a slug when you have the .45 in the mix. I'd stick with 410 buck and let the .45 do the work of the slugs.

I think most home invasion threats with body armor will also have badges.

I didn't say #6 was a good idea I think it is a horrible idea but I see a lot of people thinking the spread is awesome at short range and it is a shotgun so it must be powerful


I think you should shoot the next mangy coyote you have in a trap with that buck shot from the governor and see what it really does if it is lights out then I accept the results but if you find your 2-3 rounds of buck in from 15 feet away and not seeing the results you were hoping for


My point is 6 of the 45s in a moon clip is the way to go but since I believe that to be the way to go , that leaves a huge jump to the rifling and a lot of wasted space and weight

why I think the S&W M625 is the way to go if you want a 45 wheele gun

yes but I am telling you because it has a rifled barrel to keep it from being a AOW that it spins the shot out , and has a stupid short barrel you need to pattern it isn't like your smooth bore 18 inch barrel at all.

you should expect 700-900fps and a spread of a foot at 3 yards , 2 feet at 5 yards and 3 feet at 7 yards really watch that video it is eye opening he goes through 7 1/2 , 6 , 4 , buck , and even federals just for the 410 handgun market personal defense load.

if your using shot or buck and there is anyone near your target or behind it you could very well hit them with stray shot or buck

Thanks for the info, but:

I still like the Governor for some of the same reasons. The M625 is a great gun in it's own rite, but, I have plenty of dedicated .45 ACP's. There is no way I could justify near a grand just to have a wheel gun with one single purpose.

The Governor is a lot more flexible with the ability to fire .410. In a lot of applications less penetration is a good thing. Mix that with a hard hitting back-up ACP and you have a real tool. Like any tool you have to understand what it will do, and what it won't

While too big for a carry gun I would probably find it useful out back doing chores. I haven't committed yet; but,I think I am sold.

it has some added flexibility and as long as you understand what I think so few do is that shot shells meant for an 18 inch or longer smooth and or smooth and choked barrel are very very different from a short rifled barrel.

if I lived in snake country I might even have one but as a personal defense gun against 2 legged predators using shot shells I fear someone will think it is more effective than it actually is.


as one more option in a collection of options it can fill a niche.

I just wanted to be sure you and others here understood it's limitations

I think to many times it is sold as a lot more than what it really is.

Well I bought (ordered) a Remington express 870 20 gauge tactical. 18.5 inch barrel and a 2 shot extension on the magazine. Receiver is drilled and tapped for a rail, but I like the bead. I have to get a bunch of shells and hit the range. I’m going to wait to get a stock and light for it for a month or so. It’s playtime now. Thanks for all the advice guys. I found some training local that I will take advantage of soon.

Nice!.

have fun , practice well.