FACEBOOK LIVE MARKET UPDATE DIRECT FROM CHINA

Guy is in China meeting with customers. He will be giving a live update on Facebook. This will happen on Saturday 10/13 at 7 PM CENTRAL TIME.

Please let us know any questions you have on trapperman, Facebook, or Instagram and he will be happy to answer them.

why don't you buy PA fur??

They do. Ship it to them, they'll look it over and call you with a price. If you like the price, they'll mail you a check. If not, they'll ship the fur back to you on their dime.

the buy 6 miles from my house but in ny and i was told the wouldn't buy PA fur from guys that said they tried.i have a ny tag also and can go that route it was more of interest why they skirt PA.figured it was our regs.

Ive sold them fur numerous times.

What name do you go by on Facebook?

so.....and it begins...

Our Facebook link is https://www.facebook.com/furandwoolmarket/

At 34 minutes you said they had a 32% tariff and we live with that. Why? Guy I am not ok with 37.5% tariff on my fur. If they need us as trading partners they should stop these silly tariffs and then you could give me 37.5% more for my good heavy IA coon! The only ones that are hurt by tariffs are the trappers. Being ok with my money is never ok with me. LLL

I think you’re taking his point out of context.

He’s living with it as in they’re dealing with it, making due.

You asked Why?

It’s not like Groney has any say or influence in the tariffs, doesn’t sound like they support it at all, but that’s the cards their business has been dealt.

It’s Groenewold’s best interest to be able to pay as much as possible for raccoons as long as they can hit their profit margins as well. The more they pay the more business they will generate.

Lack of end user and a weakening chinese economy is not helping any of that.

They may not give you 37.5% more for your fur. They may sell their finished product for 37.5% less.

I like to think of taxes as another middleman like a furbuyer.

Hey,

Waddaya mean SO ?

w

That is the point of a tariff I believe. To change behavior. Saying you can live with a tariff imposed on you because it has been that way a long time is really stating why it needs to be done even more. Zero tariffs would be better for both. I am not interested in handing billions of dollars to a government that don't use money for their people and instead use it for their war machine but that is another conversation. A producer of raw fur has seen it below input cost and somehow that is ok as long as we bolster the hand of our enemy. I understand now. LLL

Also I asked why we put up with it as a country not why GFW does. LLL

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Donald trying to force China to remove tariffs? The reason people put up with export tariffs is because we are consumers not producers.

Groeny rocks,no one else gonna say it i will.i am only asking about the PA fur cause i'm looking at every way to market MY wild fur any way i can.i have a NY lisc. as i said so i will go that route,no pun intended.

don't holler at me Phil,i'm sensative. .after 2 weeks of scouting for coyotes i'm starting to think all your reds moved up here to get away from you.good day,i'll shut up now.

Im all for ending all tarrifs. Especially on soybeans and raccoons.

What do you suggest GFW does as a business with the tarrifs they face?

Are you just complaining or do you have an actual idea of how to overcome this obstacle?

I took offense to him implying that he wants business as usual is and that's ok. He is making money now and we are just "trapping for the fun".


Dirt I will correct you. We as trappers and the American farmer are producers. LLL

If people would stop trapping for the fun of it and then pretty much giving away their fur, only then might the coon market pick up again..Why should anybody pay when they can visit this site and read post after post about trappers not caring what money they get.

Okay. So you were just being a snowflake. Easily offended.

What other option does Groenewold have other to be “okay” or “living with it”?

Should they go out of business?

I don’t understand your point view or what sort of alternative there is today.

Groney can’t magically make the coon market a $20 avg.

You are looking for results. I am looking for results GFW is looking for results. FAIR trade is the result we want to see. The Trump administration is pushing back against unfair practices to include tariffs already put on a lot of goods not just beans and fur although those are our interests. It is far more reaching than that. So other than doing nothing and excepting the fact that we are to pay them and not complain like we have been, what would you do? I trust the president and his advisers. Unfair trade is not free trade. LLL

I guess one way GFW and the Auctions could get around the Chinese tariffs is to try and sell fur somewhere else. Korea?

That sounds like great news to me! I'd rather catch reds than them stinking old coyotes any day!

Sorry if that offends you...I know you're sensitive.

I know a lot of farmers that get paid not to produce anything. So,(there you go walleyed) some farmers are producers, but we have a consumer economy. Most Americans are not in the producing business.

There is a lot of money to be made buying the right kind of fur. Don't even need to know much about grading, just need to know a little.

The auctions have been selling to Korea for years. In fact, Groenewald and any auction worth a dang pushes fur to every available market there is.

I know the Donald is trying to fix these tariffs. But what will end up being lost permanently? Take soybeans, China has already turned toward other countries to fill needs. I believe China will still need some U.S. beans but what market share will be permanently lost.

Will the same happen with fur? The biggest loser will be the U.S. country fur buyer and any fur auction held in this country. I get why Groenewald says what he does about living with the tariffs. More could be lost if he doesn’t.

pretty sure NickC doesn't make quite the govt subsidies on his coons as his soybeans......why don't we get rid of those as well, since we are talking about trade....that might level the playing field - no gov propped up corn, bean, commodity prices as well as subbed out insurance........get er all level....

mink99, unless I'm wrong, under MFN China has a 31% tax (20% tariff and 11% VAT) on imports from all our wild fur competitors. Less on ranch mink. The only people that benefit from these tariffs would be Chinese fur farmers and the Chinese government.

It was not all that long ago that we were. Maybe that is the problem with the trade imbalance. Everything is being produced over there to be sold back to us instead of the other way around. LLL

Dirt, the Chinese government wants as much domestic fur used as possible. Problem is a lot of the ranch mink were pelted in August and September. So it is flat junk. I don’t know exactly what the tariff numbers are but you are right the tariffs were put in place to benefit everything chinese.

Maybe Trump will break the Chinese government or reach some agreement. I have heard a lot of the Chinese dressing plants have moved to Vietnam and other countries to lessen labor costs and avoid some of the tariffs.

Very interesting comment. Would you care to elaborate?

I was thinking the same thing Nancy. We need informed.

From my understanding we are under trade agreements under MFN. Bill Clinton got paid to push for MFN status for China by the Chinese government. I believe the reason our wild fur pelts are taxed 31% to enter China and Chinese finished fur products are taxed 2.5% (or something like that ) to enter the U.S. is that our government agreed to this. I think Donald thinks this is a Bad deal for us.

^^^^^^^ This. I hear all kinds of people moaning about tariffs and i really dont understand why. They charge us on things we export and have for years. Its time the world get treated like they treat us.

Could somebody post a link where facebook is not needed so we ("Never-Facebook-Users")

could see the results as well ?

w

They could but it will cost you 10$ [more satire]

There’s also a lot of money to be lost buying fur, especially if you only know a little

For the coon market to improve,it needs to be sold again into North America.Even though its a different product from a different origin,it was easier for neiman marcus and other large salons to discontinue all coon after the Chinese coon ban.
It'd be nice to see a North American company like Canada goose come up with a design using coon or beaver that would take off in the North American market.
Something like that would put the fur trade back on a solid footing.

Tarriffs never help anyone, they hurt consumers and producers on both sides until the respective governments grow weary on the game.

I ended up working through an interesting little test question this week given by an old crusty but wise geography professor I know. His speciality is ag commodities transportation and global trade--I think he has a side gig doing something with it besides his university job. Anyway, one of his test questions dealt with the Chinese U.S. soybean tariff. He gave 2016 data on the amount of soybeans produced by the countries raising that crop and the amount exported to China in that year. That year, the U.S. and Brazil both exported about 33-35 million tonnes of beans to the Chicoms. I only looked at countries that produced at least 500,000 tonnes of sb and above and then subtracted what they already sold to the Chinese from their overall production.

If every leading soybean producing/selling nation sold ALL the rest that they hadn't exported to China that year, the Chicoms would still be about 10 million tonnes short of what they had bought from the U.S. To maintain their current use of soybeans, the Chinese would have to produce a lot more themselves (maybe), squeeze every loose bean from the South Americans, Canuks, and the Ukrainians/Russians (have those countries try to grow more-maybe), or import less raw soy. There just isn't enough slack in the global soybean trade for the Chinese not to buy a good amount from the U.S.

In reality, the Chicoms need our markets to sell much of their manufactured goods, we're still the largest economy outside of theirs. I think a deal with get struck and things will settle down. I haven't but has anyone wrote the Donald about how the high Chicom tariffs affect the fur trade? Maybe it will get talked about in the various negotiations, maybe it won't. Like LLL said, fair open trade is the desired best outcome. We've been sold a lot of bull over the years that "open trade" preached by the globalists is (was) fair trade but it really hasn't been. We'll see how 2019 turns out...

If the tariffs get reduced it will be a byproduct of reducing tariffs on economically important industries that actually provide a living to most of the participants. I really can't see the government going to bat for an industry where 90 plus percent of the participants are not really doing it to make a significant part of their living.

Yes, Groeny does indeed ROCK!

???

A local fella gets $10 bucks apiece putting up coyotes and he gets more than he wants.
Makes money on fur and never sets a trap.

sounds like we need to send our fur to North Dakota.

Thought there was suppose to be some China live update at 7 central time tonight?

The market update is now posted on Facebook.
https://www.facebook.com/pg/furandwoolmarket/posts/?ref=page_internal

Americans ruined the fur market not tariffs. Lovely speach on it though.

I don't do facebook.Is that what the chinaman said-that America ruined the fur market?

I'll wait until I can read a written synopsis of the market.

I'm anxious to see Groenewold's route schedule for this year.

Paul should put up a separate topic thread..Maybe call it "Winer talk" That would be a good place where everyone could go to complain about the price of fur.

.......tariffs are unfair and are not good for market, but that's not what is hurting us the most. over production of ranch fur is what is killing the wild fur market.

No, I said Americans ruined the fur market.

Since the fur market was in the crapper prior to "the tariffs" I found it amusing the first paragraph of the speach was blaming tariffs.

No doubt tariffs are slowing the movement of many commodities but we have allowed it to be unbalanced for so long the fix is going to be a little painful.

I actually agree with Guy on what tariffs are meant to do. It is exactly what we need to get rid of by forcing China to trade fairly. I understand the thought that we are hurting the very market we are selling into. I understand why they would want it to stay the same way but would prefer it to be different. Above the trapper position in the chain are those who deal with the tariffs as eggs baked into the cake. My question is simple and directed to Guy.... What will happen when you cannot get enough coon to fill orders simply because trappers cannot afford to trap? Will you get enough to fill orders from those who trap for the fun and not the money? Will your customers just move to a fur they can get plenty of and allow any remote chance of using coon just go away forever?

I am speaking from the point of view of a full time fur trapper that has really been struggling to keep doing what I have done all my life. We used to depend on trapping for our winter income. Now I am working for a wage and it is not near what it used to be. Hopefully you can see it from my point of view. We need to stop allowing our "trade" partners from ripping us off. Throw 37.5% to my bottom line and I am back in tall cotton. Leave the tariff and you won't have to worry about going to China. We wont have fur to sell them because no one will be able to afford to trap. Larry Lidgett/ LLL

Is he REALLY making money?? I guess it depends on your definition of "making money".

How long does it take him to put up a coyote from start to finish. From getting the animal ready to skin until it is off the stretcher and groomed? I doubt he is even making what some consider "minimum wage" or a "living wage", which is $15,00 per hour. Lot less effort to flip burgers at McDonalds ........

Yeah but, a dead coyote smells a lot better. lol

tastes better too.

I don't support mcdonalds PERIOD

Back on topic, that was an interesting fur report. Tariffs have certainly had an impact on the fur market, but not so much the recent move by Trump. Recall back in 2013 the market was very strong when a number of Chinese buyers had found a way around their import tariff. Things went south after the crack down and enforcement. The recent move by Trump was probably not directed specifically at the fur market, but if it eventually results in elimination or significant reduction in tariffs it is bound to help.
Normally it does not pay to hold fur in a down market, but in this case I wonder if it is not a viable strategy? Maybe on items with a significant upside like otter?

deal here is they bought a pile of ash and packed it into containers and half way there found out the goberment turned and said we don't need that ash borer here.

Wissmiss most people who handle fur for money can do more then 1.5 coyotes an hour, I know I shots for 4. I’m guessing he does better then about anybody on hourly wage in valentine Nebraska and tax free.

Is it posted on Facebook the talk from last nite? October 5 th was last fur market talk I seen

The new one from the 13th is there now

My first time checking out this thread. Read from start to finish. Don’t use Facebook or eat at McDeath, but found a lot of interesting comments. Lot of factual comments. If we could get all the causes and problems with the fur market reduced to a single issue, we’d dang near have it fixed. My 6th season is coming up, and it’ll be my 5th full season. I kept records from day one, of my first full season. Fuel, equipment, fur sales, etc. Essentially, I jumped right in during the fall of the fur market. I’m self-employed, and I just decided to go for it, and I knew going in that I was looking, realistically, at a coon market was 5 years away from recovery. I spoke with several fur buyers, and they all stated that to me. So the state of the market, and the factors influencing that market, have been of great interest to me, from the beginning. Cause there is a bottom line when you’re putting up any sort of numbers. And I’ll state, I was REALLY happy the first time the fur check exceeded the fuel total. I just told myself that it was cheaper than a vacation and WAY more fun. Of course I got more property, more traps, trapped harder, fur brought less, I’m still learning, I can take it, I told myself, and, I did a couple seasons. Continuing to learn, developing as a trapper. I’m not saying I’m there, but I have the time, resources, and work ethic necessary to accomplish more than many. But I can’t do it for free, and I won’t work that hard just for fun. I can’t afford that kind of fun. I have no solutions to offer. I believe that, if we’re going to trade with another country, there should be free trade. We like you or we don’t. I am a trapper, and I’m effected by the fur market. I appreciate GFW giving us an insight into their efforts/activities. Never sold to them, never talked to them, but I generally read their threads. I think there’s probably several trappers in situations similar to mine. Love to trap, but making some money for the effort and time is a requirement. GFW has a voice and a more direct line of contact to end users of a product I WANT to produce. So consider this my “trapper’s report”. Pay is relevant to production.

I found it, wonder what chances of tarrifs increasing? Not really understand all this but do the tarrifs effect anything in Canada auctions? Don't sound like muskrat well be much different in price since last season, how are wild mink effected? Not sure who i well market with this season.

I've been saying for years, we need Carhartt to put some fur on their coats.

the fact i have 0 pieces of fur in storage anywhere at this point is my best asset in my opinion over a lot of others.

I don't either! Took a couple years of not trapping, but all is sold now.

the buzz word i've been hearing is"fresh goods" mostly with reds.course anythings better than what they tell me about mink.

I have half my harvest of the one species I shipped in "The Vault" at FHA. Never saw this before.

Things are so bad I had to un-retire from another job I hate.

Sorry, I'm wining!

Oil is now $80 a barrel, and rising fast. We could see Russians back in the game this season, might help certain articles .

As far as the tariffs go. The Chinese started this war. its long past time we did something about it. Trumps plan is genius. He plans to bail out the bean farmers with tariffs paid by China. I hope he includes other industries as well. Its a great Idea that will bring the Chicoms to their knees. They are already running adds in Iowa trying to get the farmers to cry to Trump to stop.

Shouldn't be tax free if he's offering a service and doing more than a handful. I've bundled my various micro-gigs into a single "business" that's reported on my federal taxes (we don't have a state income tax in SD). I also have a state sales tax license for some of things I do and pay in regularly on that. In my opinion, if you're doing things under the table for cash beyond something occasional, then your cheating everybody else who keeps records and follows the rules. Maybe one of his regulars should drop a 1099 on him and see if the IRS can put 2+2 together. But then again, I'm probably just whining...

I already pay taxes to China, that's why I can't afford to pay U.S. taxes. However, for the tax police, I do though.

mc donalds probably loves this tariff no competition for beans !now they can mass produce their all angus beef burgers! lol That old lady said it best wheres the beef