God does NOT forgive sin!

Heard this last week and had a knee jerk reaction of: Your wrong!!!!!!!!!

But think about it. God doesn't!

Was very interesting hearing a pastor say this out loud before he set it up with an explanation. Got everyone's attention real quick!

you just get more and more wierd

remember now,take the pills in the one marked SUN.

Okay, is see the bait, what are you trolling around for now?

A payment is required for your sin!

If you are a Christian? Why are you?

Romans 6:23 KJVS
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Next you'll say your pastor said we sin so much God replaced the wage rate with a salary.

Nope

Psalm 103:12 KJVS
As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.

Your "sin" is not forgiven. "You" are forgiven through Jesus Christ and His "death" on cross.

Replaced "you" with his Son Jesus Christ if you accept.. Wage for your sin remains the same.

.

I get what your saying bmall, but I keep these type of conversations too the already saved myself, or else we get a lot of response like the ones above!
It's freely given but there was a price played for forgivness.

If you love me you'll keep my comandments.

Lots of folks look over that one too say it's ALL grace, if you don't want too follow his teaching are you just useing him as fire insurance! Or do you love your creator do you love Christ!

I found it interesting too look into what the Hebrew word for believe is. Folks who believe in Jesus generally believe in Satan so do we really just need to believe or is there more too it. If you've never looked in to Hebrew believe you should, too me it explained what my gut told me forever.
Good stuff bmall
Colt

So how do I inform the unsaved? Or be salt and light?

Testify Brian!


Our sins are washed away with the blood of Christ.


You keep walking your path brother.

Not to hijack your thread, but I know you’d enjoy this. My brother in law and 199 others were baptized this weekend at the church he goes to near Glen Burnie Maryland. It’s a little different type church than I’m used to but, it was a great thing to attend.

I wasn't chastising you. I've personally found that the unsaved i.e. people who've never even read the Bible have a real tough time with more complex concepts.
I mean what you just said is pretty complex for a lot of church goers and would tick a lot of them off! You know most folks are feed John 3:16 and that's it! There are a lot of hungry sheep out there!
Your getting into some real meat eatting.im glad you did! I only said I tend not too, cause it with me atleast it only goes down a rabbit hole and I'm afraid does no good.i do on occasion when I'm led too! And it usually ends in an argument. So i keep it a tuch more simple then elaborate when im asked.Again please don't yell and get mad at me I was just saying. If you'll notice I agreed with you and said I liked it!
And I'm glad you posted it! Your being the light just saying anything about Christ in this dark and drery world.
Colt

Our sins were put on Christ, He paid the price, a ransom to return us to the Father

To believe in Him, means you believe He is the son of GOD, and if you believe He is, then you follow His teachings


But as believers we are not to hold unbelievers to our standard, I should only expect other believers to live by His teachings

Mall's a closet Jehovah.

That’s not very nice.

(This word is unacceptable on Trapperman) can't be much worse than revival tweet blitz from brianmall.

OK so this guy knows who's "saved" and whose not. Need for Jesus Christ, Redsleeves has it all figured out

that's not very nice.

What is sin?

Nope I have no idea on here who is and who ant, but I guarantee somebody on this site since there are several of us is not!Even if it's just one.
I don't need too know who is and who ant we'll all find out soon enough.
We ALL need Christ We ALL sin. Nobody can come to the Father except through the son!

Colt

Of course he does. He just has a condition, belief in the incarnation, and all it involves.

John i.9, 10. -- "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all
unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar...

I think the main reason most people now dislike all organized religions in the US, is that all organized religion's main products are hate and intolerance, in their followers towards those who don't exactly agree with their beliefs.

Keith

is it possible to be a good christian without a church???

I believe it is, and with some churches you may be better off. Theres a lot of watered down sugar coated twisted scripture preached out there!
Colt

I would think that is a question best asked Jesus Christ, not men who make their living telling other men what Jesus Christ really thinks.

Keith

Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

I think as long as you do those two things you're square with Jesus.

Keith

Ahmen, he wants a relationship with you!
Colt

it is easier to fullfil these requirements with a group of other believers to lift u up

You’re technically correct, but practically irrelevant. He doesn’t forgive sin, He forgives sinners. But like PA quoted, one of the ways that is frequently worded in scripture is that He forgives us “for our sins”. The Lord’s Prayer: “Forgive us our debts...”. There are many other verses where it’s worded similarly, referring to the forgiveness of sins. It’s semantics.

It sounds like rhetoric, AKA wordplay, is the best thing your pastor had to share this week.

I've Ben called worse. I get ya! Took no offense to you or anyone else.

Those seeking the truth are ready for it! They don't want it watered down. They don't want it dumbed down. They don't want punches pulled.

Personally, I believe the it's to complicated and/or its tabloid Christianity argument made towards Christians who proclaim God as he says he is. Is from the wolves in sheep's clothing. An attempt by Satan himself to squelch and to put out the word of God.

Only one way to do it as far as I'm concerned. Give it to em straight up with no apologies!

1st and foremost: rejection of Jesus Christ

In fact: Its the only sin that will condem your soul to H3ll

Dissect that verse. God never forgave sin! He forgave us (through Jesus Christ).

How are you cleansed?

And as they did eat, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and brake it, and gave to them, and said, Take, eat: this is my body. And he took the cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them: and they all drank of it. And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many."
Mark 14:22-24, KJV

What justifies you to enter into Heaven?

Good night!

The blood of Jesus Christ

Which Jesus?

There are many who come in His name.

Splitting hairs on this subject which imho is pointless in most cases

Cheer up ... history and religion are not as fixed as you think

so if adolf hitler believed jesus was a god he doesn't get set on fire, but the nonbeliever that runs a homeless shelter and food bank does?

According to Scripture and not clever clergy sowing dissension, Jesus as the Son of God does forgive (reject) sin (transgression, trespass, debt) and according to that same Son of God, in the Lord's Prayer, God does in the Father forgive sins.


Matthew 6:12

And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.




Luke 5:20


And when He saw their faith, he said unto him, Man, thy sins are forgiven thee.


Luke 7:48


And He said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.



Colossians 1:14

In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:


Ephesians 1:7


In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;


Acts 26:18


To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

Been asking that same question myself.

Faith without works is dead.

There is no "easy Jesus". We have to change. Read the book of James.

We'll too answer your question the best I know how.
Satan and his demons know he is THE God, The king of Kings and Lord of Lords it's not enuff too know or just believe. It's a tuch bit deeper. Not through works it's all grace. But you have to want that relationship with him!
And yes according to scripture not me if Hitler repented earnestly and turned and walked with and in Christ and the homeless person feeder did not. Then yes Hitler would be saved and the good man would not! Again that's what I read in scripture it's not my opinion!
Colt

Keep in mind Satan believes in God. So no believing God is God and Jesus is part of the Trinity will not get you to Heaven in its self. But if you truly want the answers God put them in an owners manual for those who seek the truth. The best way is to find the answers for one's self.

You are speaking in tongues, so I guess you missed the question. The question is: why would god allow hitler into heaven because he believed in him but send a man, who has helped others and basically done only good in his life, to the fire?

Cause that's what he asks of us to stand on his word, to trust him to keep his comandments. To love your creator to walk with him to turn from sin and evil. Too love Christ because you love him not because you want fire insurance! That's what believing in Christ is!

My apologies. I thought the question was if hitler believed Jesus was a God would he go to heaven. Didn't see the part about WHY God would allow it. That's a pretty big question with a pretty big answer. For me too big to try to make it understandable in a paragraph or two.

A decent true God would not, but a god, who was fashioned by men seeking to control and profit from other men would.

Keith

so this verse I was taught as a kid in sunday school is a lie?

Nope look up the Hebrew words for believe, it's not just a superfishial to believe or not. Not like you thank he's real or fake it's deeper. The answer too your question is in a thousand other verseses before that and after! But I've got a feeling you know this and just want to argue!
Colt

"But I've got a feeling you know this and just want to argue!"

Ya Think?

We'll I try to answer questions sometimes against my better judgment just incase there being sincere!
Colt

and also for the ones who may be following along that might be looking for real answers

LOL. Point taken. Go back and look at Danny's posts concerning anything to do with God and you will find he is sincere. Sincerely anti-God. These kind of posts are a magnet to him. He just cannot pass them up.

What you are asking is unknown to us as we do not KNOW with certainty the hearts of "men" but God does.

For the "why does God allow things to happen" folks.

My son recently had this discussion with his atheist roommate at college.

His friend asked the same question and before they could really get in debate about it the conversation turns to people they both know when his roommate says he noticed that people that have struggles appear to have more character than those that have experienced the easy life. lol

Really, would we want to worship a God that doesn't punish evil? I don't think so. When we see the horrible things some people have done to others we cry out to God for justice. In our hearts, we all want God to punish the evil that we see in this world.

I think what brianmall and this pastor mean is that God's justice demands punishment for evil. And God is to be praised for his justice. So even though WE can be forgiven, our sins cannot. Even if I am forgiven, there is still a penalty that must be paid for all the evil I have done and continue to do.

If God doesn't require punishment for evil, then why did Jesus need to suffer and die on the cross? Why couldn't God just magically forgive and forget all the sins of His children? He cannot do so because His holy nature will not allow it. God is holy, just, and his nature demands that evil be punished.

The only reason we can be forgiven is because Jesus suffered the punishment for the real, actual, and particular sins of God's people. The sins of God's people do not go unpunished - it is Jesus that accepted the punishment for us. He took my sins upon himself and gave me his perfect righteousness in exchange. That's the good news. My sins are forgiven of me, but only because God the Father poured out His wrath and punishment for my wickedness upon His only son who, out of obedience to his father, accepted the penalty for me.


I love the lyrics of this hymn by John Newton called "Let us Love and Sing and Wonder"

Let us wonder. Grace and justice
Join and point to mercy's store
When through grace in Christ our trust is
Justice smiles and asks no more


Just think about that! God's perfect demand for holy justice looks at me, sees the blood of Jesus, smiles, and asks no more! That is cause to sing and wonder. Grace and Justice joined together and pointing to God's immense love. What a beautiful God!


“Love was compressed for all history in that lonely figure on the cross, who said that he could call down angels at any moment on a rescue mission, but chose not to – because of us. At Calvary, God accepted his own unbreakable terms of justice.” --Philip Yancey



Also, Christians believe it is possible for the most wicked of men to be saved, but only because of the unsurpassing greatness of the Savior. Our mortal minds would consider the wickedness of some monsters to be so vile that they are beyond forgiveness. But, in thinking so, we underestimate the power of the sacrifice of the infinite and immortal God. Plus, I think the huge difference we see between the evil people and the "good" people in this world is really not so great when viewed from the perspective of a perfect and holy, holy, holy God. On the spectrum of good versus evil, if Adolf Hitler is the pinnacle of evil, and a perfect God is on the other end of the spectrum, Mother Theresa would still be about a half-inch away from Hitler and a trillion light away years from God.

I am a great sinner. But I have a great Saviour!

When you consider all that God sees as evil then yes, I'm glad that His punishment for it is accompanied by mercy.

Punishment on Christ. Mercy for me.

I recently preached on this very subject to our church which is a non-denominational congregation ministered to by pastors supported by the Evangelical Free Church of America (EFCA). I brought the word from the Old Testament, Joel Chapter 3, text "The Nations will be Judged".

God has spoken to His people through;
Moses
The Law
Kings
Prophets
His Son Jesus Christ

He now uses the bride of Christ, the Church, to speak to people.
Until Jesus returns

I think part of God's call for us to follow him is to join together with His body. We are called to be part of a Christian community. It is clear that it is through his Church (that is, the invisible church, His body) that Christ administers his grace to his people. God has given us the gifts of pastors, shepherds, and teachers. He has given us the opportunity to experience the joy of serving others in his church. He has called us to support and encourage our brothers and sisters. He has commanded us not to forsake the assembling of ourselves together. All that is pretty clear from the Bible, if you believe it.

I think we should not think about just trying to meet the minimum requirements to qualify as a "good Christian". We should seek to grow in grace by taking advantage of the gifts God has given his people. We should stop focusing on what we can get out of a church and what it does for us, and focus more on how we can serve God and others in His church. It's about something much bigger than ourselves.

Let's get one thing straight, you can not be justified by doing good deeds. But what you believe will determine to a great extent, who you become and what you do. If Hitler truly believed he would not have done what he did.

When we all bite the bullet It's over and you won't have to worry about If your going to get forgiven or not.
Dead Is dead baby.

That's the thing about God's grace and mercy. We don't deserve it, we don't earn and certainly not worthy of it. But yet He allows or minds and hearts to be transformed by the blood.

I'm reminded of Matthew 15:8 "these people draw near to Me with their mouth, And honor me with their lips, But their heart is far from me".

You can be worse than Hitler and yet God can transform one's heart and mind. I've seen and know many people completely transformed from their former lifestyle, including hardcore gangsters. Only the Triune God knows Hitlers heart at the end.

Surely, goodness and mercy will follow me all the days of my life
And I will dwell in the house of the LORD forever.

Yeah but then we get labeled Born Again Christians.

Something so easy to believe, not always easy to walk the walk, but some people brush it aside like believing is for the weak.

Most folks carry insurance as do I. Well this is my insurance for after I pass.

Eric, none of us walk the perfect line in the eye's of our creator and never will.But we can give thanks and ask for forgiveness for our sins.I still cannot find anything bad in the Bible.It is very clear and straight forward,not meant to change the text to fit what we want or our lifestyles.

Your exactly right, Scott.

I think so.

Or a Holy Roller. I wish he would just get out of my face. It gets boring.

Jarhead

I am a Holy Roller,proud to be an American.

Don't read his posts then. How difficult is that?

Is the sin forgiven? Or the one who committed them forgiven?

Which Jesus?

There are many who come in His name. [/quote]


This one

Matthew 2:1-8 KJVS
Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem, [2] Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him. [3] When Herod the king had heard these things , he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him. [4] And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born. [5] And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is written by the prophet, [6] And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel. [7] Then Herod, when he had privily called the wise men, enquired of them diligently what time the star appeared. [8] And he sent them to Bethlehem, and said, Go and search diligently for the young child; and when ye have found him , bring me word again, that I may come and worship him also.

Why would a sin need forgiving? Sins don't need salvation.

Any and all sin noo matter how trivial the sin. Is enough to separate one from God. We are all guilty by just being related to Adam.

In short:. If hittler some how managed to know Jesus Christ as his savior before he died and the homeless shelter person did not? Then yes, hittler would be forgiven and the homeless shelter guy would not be forgiven.

But here is the deal! We are known by our fruit! If one is truly saved? Then one should love Christ! If one loves Christ? Then one should do their best to keep Gods commandments!

There is only one sin that will condem you to h3ll! That is a rejection of Jesus Christ. Everything else can be forgiven through Jesus Christ!

Now, I don't believe folks like Hittler are salvageable! Because, their rejection of Jesus Christ has gone so far that they have been given over to reprobate mind. At that point it would literally take an act of God to make you see the truth. Like Paul on the demascus road.


It's this simple:. We are all born condemned and stay condemned until we are reborn and made new through Christ. At that point you are redeemed. Your sin debt being paid for by Jesus Christ death on cross.

.... y’all ought to take up serpents and speak Pig Latin like those Apostolic Pentecostal hands ...that’s the real deal right there .....everything else is just lightweight watered down believin

This isn't the dragqueen story time thread savell.

But I'm still glad to see you!

I think many believers get hung up on trying to convince others to follow their beliefs. Hence the term Bible thumpers. It is my belief that as a Christian, we are to spread the word. That's it! If that seed is planted and the person is receptive, God will handle it from there. After all, We can't save anyone! That is between them and the Almighty.

I think that is the same thing Bic.

But I get it we lead them to Christ, it is up to them to believe and accept the Holy Spirit.
Can’t make them believe.

AMEN!
Very well put!

I think we should have fun with our small kids and grandkids. Put a bowl of the favorite candy or ice cream or cake within reach and tell them no matter what don't eat it. Leave the room and watch secretly through a keyhole till they eat a little. Burst into the room and beat them severely for disobedience. Then punish them for the rest of their lives. People have more character when treated/raised properly.

Thats meesed up you shouldnt do kids that way!
Colt

Or knowing all those things are going to give them diabetes and cause them to lose limbs and eventually die, offer to lead them to eat good things and share with others and reward them with eternal life. lol

Yep. We catch 'em. God cleans 'em.