How do Canadians manage traplines?

I hear so much about quotas, management, etc in Canadian provinces. How exactly does that work and does it work?

google--"Boco".

When you acquire a line, that line has set quotas. A quota is a calculation based on the carrying capacity of the land, that tells us how many of a certain species can be removed froma line and still maintain a sustainable population. Quotas are put in place on animals that can suffer easily from overtrapping. Fisher and Marten have maximum quotas. It is known that you can take one fisher per 2000 acres annually and still have a sustainable population. Those are rough numbers, and a more accurate method would be ratios of juveniles to adult females since some areas are just more productive than others. But it is the best general method we have. Marten I believe are calculated at one animal per 3000 acres.

My line has a maximim quota of 17 fisher, and 12 marten. Areas with excellent marten and fisher habitat can have open quotas, and the trapper must keep close watch on their populations to avoid taking too many.

The other animal that has a quota on it is beaver. Beaver has a maximum and minumum quota, wheras fisher and marten only have a maximum. Each trapper must kill between 75% and 100% of their beaver quota annually to keep their line. That is because beaver can be a nuisance and it helps keep them in check, and also prevents overpopulating. Beaver quotas are based on 1.5 beavers taken per active colony. If you constantly fail to trap your beaver quota, your line can be taken from you and given to someone who will trap it. This prevents non trappers from getting a line an using the cabin for hunting...It ensures the line is managed.

All other critters are less prone to overtrapping. Coon, rat, otter, wolf, fox, ermine, and bear have an unlimited quota. You can take as many as you want, however you shoot yourself in the foot if you do. it just gives trappers the ability to manage their lines based on the populations they have. Trappers can have their quotas raised and lowered based on populations...

Hope that helps.

Are there penalties if you don't take your minimum beaver quota?

yes, you can get a fine, then you can lose your line. The MNR will take it from you and give it to someone willing to trap. It usually goes through an application process based on experience. Kind of a points system.

it does take a few years of not taking quota til the MNR gets on your case about it. At the end of the year, you also must send in a season end report listing how many animals of each species you have taken. One report for each license you have. You may only have one line, but you can have a helper license for as many lines as you like, or can get permission on. There is no limit to how many helper trappers you can have on a line.

Hutchy nailed it.Good line management definitely works.There is one line documented near north bay that has been producing the same amount of beaver for 3 generations in the one family.

Cool. What is their beaver quota Boco? And I am going to be looking closely at my fisher ratios for the first time this year. I am always scared of overharvest, so it will probably help me sleep better lol

Around 50.

A picture of the back of my license, showing quotas. Notice that anything with a zero means closed, as in can't take any. I don't have any of those animals, so that's really why. My helper liceces just say "quotas as per head trapper".

What does a blank mean? Take as many as you want? Do you even have possum in your area?

Correct,blank is open quota.O is closed quota.

No possum on my line, and generally no skunk either, however I did see a skunk just south of me a few weeks ago.

That was one of my questions- how do they come up with population numbers?

Read my first post. It is based on scientific carrying capacity of the land. Beaver is 1.5 beaver per active lodge, marten in one marten per 3000 acres, and fisher are one per 2000 acres. This is considered sustainable harvest.

Sorry, you mean population numbers in general? I am not 100 percent sure, and also not sure it matters for quota. Knowing populations is a tough task with the natural cycles. That's why it is important for the trapper to be on top of what is happening on their line. If there are no for one year, try avoid trapping fox. If well managed the population swings shouldn't be as severe.

Certain areas just don't hold as many of a certain animal. Like up in marten country, fisher are more scarce. Where I am, I don't even have 12 marten on my whole line. I only ever get one or two max. Therefore I don't set for marten. The zone next to me has lots of marten. It's not perfect, but works very well.

The carrying capacity for marten varies according to food supplies, not how many acres. My acres never change, but my marten population does.

That's the beauty of management. If you have fewer marten, trap fewer marten. It's nice to know you are the only one trapping so you can manage it properly.

Biologists in different parts on the country have done mark and re capture studies to determine the home ranges of animals that are susceptible to overtrapping because of low reproduction etc in different habitats.Core habitat is identified on traplines and base numbers of resident animals for quota will be set.Quotas are adjustable up and down if the trapper submits scientific data to the fur tech\biologist supporting his request to increase or decrease the quotas.

For example I have as much as doubled my marten quota in years of very high juvenile recruitment,by bringing in skulls to the bio to support my request.In years of low juvenile numbers trappers curtail their harvest.


Beaver quotas can be raised or lowered as required by submitting an aerial beaver survey identifying all the live colonys.

Here is an example of a live colony survey and the resulting quota.

Do you guys have to "buy" a trapline or "bid" on one? This thread has been interesting and made me a bit curious about how one goes about it.
Thanks
Mac

very interesting here too

I have bought both my traplines.If you buy a trapline you are buying the improvements and equipment,not the land.It is on a willing buyer willing seller transaction between the outgoing trapper and the incoming one.Once the deal is made,if there is no documented first nation claim on the trapline then the harvesting rights will be transferred to the new trapper as per the instructions of the outgoing trapper.
Lines that are vacant are allocated on a point system to the applicant with the most points.Points are awarded for years experience,belonging to provincial,and local trapping organizations,completion of the fur management fur harvest and conservation course.Also how close the line is to your home.points are taken away if you already have a trapline and are applying for a second line or for any fur offenses under the fish/wildlife conservation act. If there is a tie in points between one or more applicants the local trapping council will decide who gets the line.This can be done by a members vote.

Can you trap if you can not acquire a trapline? Can you just trap public land?

Here in BC you most often acquire a trapline from a trapper who is selling one or occasionally by bidding on a vacant one put up for sale by the government. When a trapper sells his line the transfer to the purchaser must be approved by the government. Basically the purchaser must be 19 years of age or older and have completed a trapper education course approved by the government to purchase or bid on a line.

This thread has been very interesting and informative. I hope it continues to be civil so that it doesn't get axed.

How much can one expect to spend on a trapline on average?

There are three classes of licences in Ontario,registered trapping licence,resident trapping licence,and farmers licence.
You can get a licence to trap on private land,which is the resident licence.You can sign up as much private land as you want.A trapper on a registered line can also trap on private property if he signs it up.If the private land is within or touches the boundaries of the registered line,no other licence is required(just permission).If not you will have to purchase a resident trapping licence.
A farmer can trap on his own land with a farmers licence to sell pelts.

In BC basically all crown land is covered by a trapline area. You can only trap on private land or a trapline, with written permission, if you do not have a registered trapline. In either case you must have passed and approved course to obtain a trapping licence.

In Ontario if you are awarded a vacant line under the points system,there is no charge.If you buy a line the cost is based on the improvements.Here where I am a line can go from $1000 up to $25,000.There are a lot of variables-remoteness,quotas,equipment,cabins etc.

Some lines may have 2 or 3 cabins and a number of boats and motors,maintained trails,snow machines,4 wheelers,argo,chainsaws,traps,etc.

The vast majority of established traplines will sell between 5 and 10 thousand here in NE Ont.
The fur harvest records are most likely to be taken into account also.

There are always a fair number of vacant lines available each year in the NE.We see more and more going to resident trappers from southern Ontario that want to manage a trapline in the north.I like to see the southern trappers get their feet wet on a northern line.

" How do Canadians manage traplines?"


They do pretty good. but the fur prices suck!

(I'll apologize in advance if there is no room for humor here)

That's how I got my line. It was free. I trapped it as a helper trapper for a few years, then the head trapper signed a succession form. A succession form just says that if the head trapper cannot trap his line any more, the line goes to the helper trapper. He signed the form, then gave up the line. It then went to me. This is how buying a line also works like this. You agree on a price, then the head trapper puts you on his line as a helper, and gives up the line. It is now yours.

And I don't think there is any reason it can't be a civil thread. We aren't saying whose system is better, just exaining what works for us.

Somebody (You almost did)

Apology accepted. Now write out "RTLs are better" two hundred times and go to your room.

Kidding! We don't wanna go there lol

FYI,me and hutchy are just talking about Ontario.It is different in other provinces.Wildlife in Canada is managed by the provincial governments,not federal.

Traplines vary considerable depending production, assets and equipment involved, from a few thousand to $100,000 or more. I would expect a decent line to go for around $25,000 to $40,000. Google BC traplines for sale for an idea of whats being asked currently

Bc guys, are there quotas attached to those lines?

There are provision for quotas but I am not aware of any lines which have had quotas set on them.

I understand that you may have an open quota on lets say fox, however does your government give you and idea of what to take to maintain a healthy population per acre like it does with the animals with the quotas?

When you guys get a trapline is it government regulated or is it yours to do as you wish like build new cabins, cut paths out of timber things like that.

There have been a couple mentions of equipment being sold with a trap line. Is that customary, that a trapper would sell all his gear and snow machine and ATV when he sells the line, or just if he's retiring for good?

That’s cheap!

In BC management of your harvest is up to the trapper. The education course provides you with basic guidelines to accomplish this. The government has the option to establish a quota or close the season on you.

You must get approval for your cabins in BC and trail cutting requires approval if it involves the cutting of commercial timber.

This is interesting to me. I would love just to go one season and watch how you guys trap all season.

When you get your line, is it issued to just you, or are you allowed to have others trap on your line. trapping buddy, family, lease it out??

You can allow anyone to trap or lease it as long as they have a licence and your written permission.

Pretty similar here.

Are there limits on the amount and type of trails you create, and do you have the right to restrict others from using your trails?

Osky

No right to restrict others from using them. And despite trapping policy being the same Ontario wide, my mnr wants me to get a permit to make trails, and most others do not I believe. Government... Boo

As far as I know, in BC there are no restrictions on the amount of atv or snowmobile trails you can construct as long as there is little timber cutting involved and they do not involved any identified sensitive or restricted sites. No you have no right to restrict others from the trails you construct. If any extensive timber cutting, merchantable or immature, is involved then a forestry permit would be required.

Thanks guys

Osky

What if the harvestable surplus is more than your cap? I decide in season by in season information what the harvestable surplus might be and control my harvest based on timely in season data. The government does not know what is going on. I do.

So if you want to raise your beaver quota who pays for the aerial survey? Kinda on the same line as Dirt’s question.

How do the various Ministries handle trap thievery, or hunter/fishermen toying with your traps/cabins, etc.??? Do they (Wardens?) seem to take it seriously?

Our council has a fund from our nuisance beaver program that will cover 75% of the cost for any member wishing to fly.
There are a couple trappers in each council that have aircraft and that know how to properly fly an aerial beaver survey for an accurate count.
Last year the pilot in our council charged $200 for a line.
If you trap beaver in the winter it saves a lot of time and money being able to plan from an aerial survey,instead of looking for live houses from the ground.
Most times a trapper knows his ground pretty good if he has been on it for years,and will only do an aerial survey if there is a problem in the district like a freezeout.
New trappers taking over a beaver line with a big quota will definitely benefit from an aerial survey.
Sometimes the MNR will fly a survey if they think a line is being mismanaged.
Too bad google earth is 5-6 years out of date,if it was real time that would be great.Our fur tech has a meeting for trappers during the season for quota adjustments.The only time data would be required for a quota adjustment would be if it was substantial like doubling the marten quota because of a high juvenile ratio in conjunction with a high early harvest level(75% of quota in 3 weeks trapping for example),or a drastic drop in beaver quota from a freezeout.In both these cases many trappers would be on the same page as these fluctuations are widwspread over many traplines when they occur.In the early 90's here we had a large freezeout of beaver.One local trappers aerial survey indicated a drop from over 60 live houses before to just 9 live houses the year after.

We work closely here with the CO's,they take any offenses against trappers very seriously.
The only time I ever had a problem was the first year I got a trapline I found a couple big beaver floating in the fall killed with a high power rifle.I reported it to the CO,never heard anything but never had that problem ever again.
I have never had anyone tamper with any traps on my remote line,and so far no problems on my line east of town.

For $200 I would do a survey to find live houses every year.

My fur tech has asked me for a map of live houses on a helper line I am on. As for raising quotas mid season, the trend for beaver has been for people to argue their quotas down since beaver aren't worth as much. Around here a trapper asking for a raised quota would be rare and likely granted without question assuming the trapper can back up their claim by counting live houses. As for marten and fisher, just knowing my fur tech, I believe an argument could be made to have it raised based on juvenile to adult female ratios. Doesn't mean he would raise it, but you could make the argument. They tend to be a bit more stingy about marten quota increases here, since our populations are just not what they are up north where there are open quotas. Where the populations have potential to be very high, trappers manage their own quotas, like dirt has said. Down here we don't have a whole lot of marten, so quotas stand. As for fisher, we have a decent population, and have fewer population swings. Fisher populations don't seem to swing as wildly as marten, and the quotas seldom change. In eastern areas of the province with incredible fisher populations, the quotas are open for fisher, and the trapper manages his take. Quotas only generally exist where they need to be in place. Exceptions to every rule, but the system seems to work based on steady harvests year after year.

Are the fur prices set in Canada? I remember seeing a show where a Trapper had a list of what he was to be paid for each species prior to trapping. Would this be similar to the bounty system we occasionally see in the States? Would this be in addition to the fur value?

That is probably the government incentive program in the Northwest territories. They get a guaranteed minimum. The fur is sold at FHA(maybe) If sold for more than the minimum they get Auction value. I'd tell you what I think of it, but it wouldn't be considered civil.

Is there still a bounty on Beaver up there?

Been 10-15 years since i've been up hunting, but remember the guy telling me they had a 25 dollar bounty at that time.

I believe there is a bounty in the western provinces where there are lots of beaver/human conflict in farming areas.

No bounty where I am.

Also no bounty in BC.

Thanks.

It was in Manitboa where the trapper told me that.

I trapped On my buddies line and also his wife's line.
He was only limited for the amount of Lynx he could take. And like others said he needed to take so many beaver.

7 weeks In the bush what a blast.

I think Boco has been hitting that recreational weed already if he thinks Google Earth everywhere is 5-6 years of of date. I use GE almost daily for work and there's no where in the CONUS that doesn't have imagery within the past 2 years. Now maybe in the boonies of his part of Ontario but I even doubt that. Give me some lat, longs Boco, and I'll tell you the last image availability...

Trap lines here get handed down the generations of families. No registered lines anymore but most people still respect others families trapping areas. For some people that don’t have an established line there is open land close to town or as remote as you want. I’ve heard of rivalries at the borders of trapping areas resulting in warning (?) shots and I’ve also heard of 3 families meeting at the border every night during ratting with canoes to roast tails and do some skinning. I’m lucky that my trapline covers land from both my McLeod and Greenland sides of the family tree. No quotas here but when the populations are high we trap a bit harder and we won’t overtrap because the following years would be harder to pick up fur.

Google Earth shows a truck in my driveway I haven't owned in six years. Lol

"Traplines vary considerable depending production, assets and equipment involved, from a few thousand to $100,000 or more. I would expect a decent line to go for around $25,000 to $40,000. Google BC traplines for sale for an idea of whats being asked currently"

I am not making an intentional negative comment as this is a good, informative thread. So please do not take it as such.
It seems that with those prices one would have to be a rather wealthy "sportsman" type trapper. I can see say an outfitter or business man being able to afford that but not an average trapper.
That kind of money would be a serious outlay in cash and one would have to be pretty sure of a couple of things.
One, that there was enough potential and time to make that area profitable.
Two, that you would be able to financially and physical ability to make it all happen.
Different style of trapping. The average guy would be out of business.

Every year though doesn't the weather have a big influence on populations? Can your quotas change during the year because of natural events?

And at the other end of the spectrum,my line didn’t cost a penny , but it came with zero improvements and I stayed in a tent the first season until I had a camp built , many many lines have been reallocated threw the point system in the district I trap south of Boco due to the fact the lines were not getting trapped and managed , my line is 8 hours from home though not just out the back door , I trap all private land here in the south , I’ve said before Ontario is a very diverse and ranges from high dollar flat ag ground where I live to the boeral forest of the north so it’s a different management system in different areas as well , a fella could never hurt the raccoon populations here in the south , but over trapping marten or lynx in the north is a possibility as well as what happens when the beavers are not managed , I’ve learned a lot of interesting stuff in the past 6 seasons trapping northern Ontario and as I head into season 7 I hope to continue.

I have Google Earth Pro at work. It has a "Historical" feature. When I use that, I can see the supposed dates of the imagery used. Within the CONUS (conterminous U.S.), when I use GE Pro, there isn't a place that doesn't have imagery within 2 years. For my house, it is from March of 2018. The people that run Google are extremely liberal progressives and want to save (and make money from) the world but perhaps they really don't give a hoot about having newer imagery over Canada. Go ask them why they only have 6-year old imagery over your house. Maybe the Canadian gov doesn't give them enough cash under the table to get newer imagery, I don't know. If anyone thinks that Google got as big and powerful as it did without the help of certain agencies within the U.S. gov, you're fooling yourselves...

Here are the co ordinates PCFED let me know the actual date of the imagery.
lat-49.7169 n
long-81.5165 w
elev 755ft.

Ok, I'm going into the office either later today or tomorrow so will check that out on my version there. I just downloaded GE on this newer computer here at home and its a "new" version of GE. Not impressed so far.

Boco, this isn't near where you live, right? You're much further north than just under 50 N, correct? From the NW Angle in MN to Puget Sound in WA, the U.S.-Canada border is at 49 N.

Yes that is my trapline.Just south of James Bay.The climate and terrain is sub arctic because of the Bay.

Nice use of decimal degrees!

Ok, Boco, I learned something from you today. I guess I never realized how far north the nw MN to w WA border was with Canada. Or how far south James Bay was. I took your same latitude and bumped up the longitude to 100 W and you end up about 90 klicks north of the Turtle Mts. in ND, so less than 60 miles north of the U.S./Canada border. Very interesting!

2 months or 6 years, the point was google is not that useful for locating live beaver lodges. The photos would have to be from september/october to find live lodges. IMO

Yes RTL trapping is a different style of trapping. You have exclusive rights to a specific area of crown land. No direct area competition providing you the ability to control and manage the harvest over a large area.

Yet, what you consider the average trapper still has the right to trap as much private land they can obtain written permission for.

If there are a lot of trappers who don't trap their existing lines because they can't make decent money, how you going to make decent money if you have to buy one?

I see Mac's point and agree. I also see the way ya'll run your lines and that's good too.

With todays prices, it is kinda a mute point tho. When prices are high, and a fella down here can run and catch hundreds and even thousands of critters, it looks like it would be hard to do up there.

Lots of Canadian trappers catch "hundreds and even thousands" of critters.

Lots of them?

Like i said above, looks like their way would be hard. I'm not talking Muskrats either (big pay critters when there is such a thing).

IMO those that cannot make decent money, or rather what I consider a decent return on investment, either made a poor choice in their investment or are poor business managers, or just plain lazy individuals.

I think this means, "Can't make decent money"

It seems like a big barrier for new trappers.

I trapped up there and If you want to put up numbers you would be way better off trapping In the states.

That's some pretty skinny country to put up numbers.

I catch hundreds of animals on 2 20 mile loops.Very rich fur country up here and lots of species also,not just one or two.Low expense with cabins on the line,and excellent acess in winter.
There was a reason the HBC built their first fur trading forts in southern James Bay.

If a guy has the gumption to develop his own line here,there is lots of country available.
Now if you want to step into a developed line then you will need to pay.
The reason Ontario has more reasonable prices for traplines is because the mandatory minimum beaver quota keeps lines in the hands of fur producers and out of the hands of big money hunters.

Beav you trapped part of Canada.

I thought the minimum beaver quota was to make your lines so productive?

I have seen lines come up with hundreds of beaver quotas. Heck, mine used to be 125 and I could probably up it to 50 or so now without any trouble. Ill see what fall brings.

I recall hearing of an old couple who ran a line up north. They broke down and got a helper because it was getting hard for them to keep up with their 200 beaver quota each year. lol. Cant recall who it was, but I think my trapping instructor knew them.

On the lines I am on, I am going for a hundred beaver this year. Also, marten trappers in highly productive areas can get hundreds of marten. Can you take off and set a thousand traps from one end of the province to the other? No, of course not. But I do know a guy named Murray who lives on his line up north and he claims in forty or more years there are parts of it he has not seen. Boco, Murray has tried to sell me his line a few times. Sounds great, but cant convince the wife. lol

Read back. There can be more than one reason things exist.

Hey Hutchy,how would you like to trap this line-424 live houses,that only an 850 quota.Thats a small line compared to some,only 180 sq miles.

You mean acquiring a new line?

It can be, however a lot of new trappers are not ready to manage a line. That's why the points system exists. In theory, the more points you have, the more experience you have. The idea is that you get on as a helper, either on a line too big for one person to manage, an older person who cant trap it themselves without help, a buddy...and trap as a helper to learn before being thrown into managing a whole line. the more involved you are, the more points you get. Being a helper trapper gets you a point, so does getting your license, being a member of a council, etc. A few other ways to get points I think. Then, when you are experienced, you can apply for and hopefully get a line. Its not perfect, but the theory is there. Also, a lot of people end up getting hooked up with a line through their local council, end up trapping with a buddy, or GASP! realize that trapping is not for them for some reason or another.

It CAN be a barrier for some, however I got a line two years after setting my first trap, and am currently on two others as a helper that I exclusively trap. The people who own the line cant be bothered. Works for me. If you want anything bad enough, and are persistent, doors will open. But then, that is like most things in life IMO

How many helpers are on that bad boy??

With an area like that, it must have been trapped consistently for many years for there to be enough feed to handle that amount of beaver.

And sign me up! Ill stack em up! You just gotta help me perfect that multiple beaver 330 set you love so much!

Just read, that was in 1969 eh. Is that area still at that quota do you know? How are the beaver compared to back then? As I stated, my line was at 125 in those days and coundnt support that now.

I had a buddy in Kapuskasing recently wanted to sell his line.I put it on the CNTA forum and hooked up a guy from the south looking for a line up north.I believe the transaction went thru and the fella from the south is up trapping the line now.Dont know what he paid,I'm sure it was reasonable,and I know that line has some good fur and two cabins.I believe a lot of other equipment went with the line,a turnkey operation right off the bat for the incoming trapper.He will be producing good amount of fur the first year.
Some guys like myself trap on 2 or 3 lines and with the price of fur being down some are cutting back on the effort.It is not uncommon for lines to change hands between trappers,and I don't know of anyone who wants to trap not being able to get on a line around here.

I think for a lot of guys in the south, that trapping in the north is a bit out of reach, a bit far away and a bit too remote. Also, more of a serious endeavour. Not that it cant be here, its just that we seem to have more pressure for lines around here. I could have had one up north two years ago. Near wawa. Five beaver quota, and wasn't right for me at the time. Looking for another close by for the wife...that would be idea.

No the line is now under control.Beaver were overpopulated here in the late 60's,I think the quota on that line now is around 3 or 4 hundred.
That line was where the first OTA trappers college was held(Elliot lake),with instructors like Ralph Bice,Paul Millette,and Lloyd Cook.
Some lines were split into smaller more manageable lines.One old woman trapper had a line here with a beaver quota of 300.When she got too old to manage it,instead of booting her,they split the line in two.My son now has 1\2 of that original line,just east of town.

5 beaver quota?Must be in that high jackpine sandy ground common there.Might be good lynx country,but with no water I think you did well to pass on that one.

He said lots of wolves though. I said, ok, but what will I bait them with???

LOL.Lots of wolves there must be lots of moose too.Cause they aint got no beaver left.

Things like free ADC for Ontario.

Beaver are only a nuisance where there is civilization.Not so much on the vast majority of registered traplines,especially in the Patricia portion of NE Ont.
I have found there are more beaver on well managed traplines than in untrapped areas.True they will boom for a while but then crash to very low levels.
I remember surveying areas of the railroad like the nippissing crown game preserve,where no trapping has ever been allowed,and there were very few beaver there and a lot of degraded habitat.

Then in areas like KL,Kap Cochrane and Hearst where traplies are well managed the landscape was full of beaver.

I understand the strategery, but making people trap beaver only works as a deterrent because beaver ain't worth trapping. When they are worth trapping you have to have a maximum limit like we used to have.

I did.
I met a Ontario trapper at a NTA convention we became friends and he invited me up to trap. 7 weeks In the bush.

But If I wanted to put up numbers on things other then wolves lynx and marten I wouldn't be trapping In Ontario.

I'd be trapping rats and mink In ND fox In PA and beaver In SC. 300 beaver In a year In Ontario? I could do that In 2 months In SC and be warm doing It. Then toss In the 70 or 80 otter.

Yes, lots!

You don't think there aren't guys catching hundreds of coyotes in a year? Marten? Beaver? Racoon?

Why are you looking down on the muskrats? I think I'd rather own 3 or 4 thousand rats than a thousand PA foxes right now.

You need to think outside your box old buddy. I've done 300 beaver in 2 months in MN through the ice. Manitoba, Saskatchewan and Alberta is where it's at.

Beav don't come to western PA for fox...….

Paul Millette did 1013 beaver thru the ice in a couple months by hearst on his own trapline and one other he flew into up north not to mention over 50 otter,300 marten,and lots of fisher wolves lynx rats and mink.
Not only that he put them all up.
He was also the top producer/shipper to NAFA for many years.

If a guy wants to work he can put up phenomenal numbers of high quality fur here.


Like Steven said there are high numbers of fur come out of Manitoba,Alberta,and Saskatchewan.
And Quebec produces more than all including Ontario.

I remember many times back in the 70's and 80's Cree families would come out of the bush in April on skidoos pulling tandem komatiks to meet the train after trapping all winter way north and west of kipling.They had fur bags that would near fill one end of the baggage car.

Ya old buddy but I'm not busting ice. And I can sit on the veranda at the end of the day sipping a mint Julep LOL

Beav if we was both younger I would like to try trapping beaver with you in Carolina.Maybe bring along your buddy steve too.
I don't know about that mint stuff,but I have tried some firewater from down that way before.There are fisher trappers in maine like That former wfsc director who uses beaver for fisher bait.

Figured that would get more out than we only catch enough to keep a healthy line.

Have to go by the live houses.Some lines like shown have extremely dense populations.
I just got a request from the MNR to trap a remote line that has been vacant for a couple years,should be interesting.

Go get em old timer. LOL

How do you know those numbers won't sustain a healthy line.

Boco, the reason I didn't mention Ontario and Quebec is I know little about them and they don't have coyotes lol. But of course there has to be some monster catches coming from the provinces. All one has to do is look at how massive they are, how diverse the terrain is and how few people live in your country. It only stands to reason a trapper is only limited by his own vision.

You know me Beav, I don't imbibe. At night we'll be skinning.

One thing a lot of people don't realize(I even had to remind some new MNR people) is that every inch of Ontario crown land is someones trapline.

No coyotes in Ontario? Oh my friend...we have a lot of really mangy lousy coyotes! lol

Or limited by the line he has. The quota's they showed at the start of this thread tells me they ain't catching hundreds.

Which is it?

The quota's they showed are only on their line at present time. Other lines have different quota's.They also said in the beginning that a trapper can own multiple lines. Also they can trap on private property and still own multiple lines on crown land. The non crown areas don't have quotas or at least that's my understanding.

Don't get stuck thinking inside the box. Marty Senneker isn't catching several hundred of the best coyotes on the planet on crown land.

On my buddies trap line you would be lucky to catch 40 beaver even If you were working at It. But he catches quite a few marten. If I remember we caught 52 while I was there.

They don't count.

I would think having a registered line on crown land would slow a numbers guy down. Except for Beavers that is, saw lots of them on Crown land when i was there.

l.

Ontario is a big province buddy, it starts on the west side of Lake of the Woods and goes almost to Vermont. It's 415,000 square miles, Wisconsin about 65,000. 415,000 square miles! Get out of the box, your buddies line is only indicative of his line.

Elaborate hippie,I don't understand your question.Ontario is huge.It spans climate zones from Carolinian in the south to arctic in the north,not all traplines will have the same animals available.Some like hutchys will have a few marten being at the southern limit of their range.I have no coon,Matt Duncan in the south would have hundreds.
But there is no limit to the number of traplines you can trap on.I have trapped 5 lines in my younger days,many still do trap multiple lines.I have 7 lines available to me right now,obviously I cannot manage that many at my age.3 is my limit now.

How about marten?

Don't forget a trapper with a registered line isn't only relegated to trapping on that line. He can also trap private ground outside of crown land.

If we get the notion to go trap cototes out west, fox in the east, coon in the mid-west or Beaver/Otter down south, we can go do it and cover lots of turf via vehicle on roads. Those northern lines you have, i can't understand how you can put the numbers up like guys here do, while running a sno-go and chopping ice.

And first you have all those hoops to jump thru just to get a line. Here we just saddle up and get after it.

Boco, can you give an example of the square mile size of some of these line?

Thought we were talking registered lines?

Just because you can't understand it doesnt mean it can't be done. I'm not trying to be rude just trying to open your mind. There are guys in the lower 48 who have put up some pretty big numbers of beaver running off snocats and chopping ice. Don't forget they can also trap fall and spring. Boats and atvs are effective means of travel as well.

Also don't forget that some of these areas that Boco is talking about is south of where I live.

I thought we were talking about Canadian trappers. It doesnt matter though, 500 beaver plus marten, fisher, otter etc wouldnt be all that difficult in some of the areas I've spent time in. Biggest obstacle would be having a market to drive a man that hard.

I think my buddies line was something like 38 square miles. But It all wasn't trappable.

That's only a township, he needed a couple more lol.

I don't know about "Boco's" areas lines but my last BC line was probably a little larger than average at 305 sq. miles or basically 8.5 townships.

Can a US citizen buy a Trapline in Ontario?

Can a US citizen legally qualify as a helper on a line? If not, can a US citizen go along on the line as an observer or photographer.

Sometimes it is rough being an Alien!

By the way, I really like the Canadian approach of regulating traplines. I would love to have my own region with exclusivity.

Best wishes.

Thank you to all who contributed to this thread. A good educational thread for me and hopefully for others.

Bryce

My main trapline is roughly 350 sq km,and the other lines I trap are about the same.Just north of me there are lines 1200 sq km and further north bigger yet.
Some lines south and east are about 150 sq km,but are higher density for fur usually(more water,higher ground,less muskeg).The rule of thumb is that the further north you go the bigger the lines.

Unfortunately,maybe,Non residents of Canada cannot trap in Ontario.


Winter means better acess into better fur country.Trapping around roads is never as productive as getting into the interior of a trapline.

Ok I'll chime in on Saskatchewan.

Northern part of the province about 1/3 is all registered lines. Possible to get a line but must be voted on by the block. Price depends on cabins and gear. Lots of native line holders.

Southern part 2/3 s of the province is open and trap wherever you want on private land with permission. Also crown land which is accessible.

No limits here on any animals

Badger
Black bear
Beaver -----------------------open season in several zones but some are closed till trapping season
Bobcat(south end by US border)
Coyotes---------open season
Cougar
Fisher
Fox red,silver,cross
Lynx
Marten
Muskrat
Otter
Raccoon---------- open season
Skunk---------------open season
Squirrels
Weasle
Wolf
Wolverine( mostly on registered lines)

I trap in the southern zone. Most animals are available all over Saskatchewan except a few. Bobcats,marten cougar and wolverines are in certain zones.

Getting permission in southern zone is very easy but you will have some people say no. You are only limited on how much you want to trap by one factor, your drive. I have more access to land than I could ever trap. When fur prices are good there's more people trapping. When there poor like now there's not a lot. There are lots of coyote trappers and shooters right now. Beavers have a bounty on them in certain zones and turning in tails you can receive $15-40 a tail.

We have some of the best coyotes here. Coyotes are what I am going after most but will also set for other animals on my coyote lines.

Only residents can trap here.

Why don't you want to take one of your options to put up numbers?

My guess is northern Canada is much like here. I need 500 square miles just to scratch out a meager living. This would be about 1300 sq kilometers. In many places you will have to spend years cutting and maintaining trails. Trapping is not where the real work is.

Dirt I've done the ND thing on rats. And put up some decent numbers.
Trapped In the Carolinas for 15 years. Most of the time I was In the 380 range on beaver and 60 on otter. Best year was 406 beaver and 81 otter. WE all so did well In the live market.

I don't have a clue, but they know how to make beaver traps.

I always find the obsession with numbers odd. Is that how they score trapping these days? I certainly understand trapping lots of income producing wildlife, but catching 100's of animals that make me little money really has no appeal. I sometimes think the trapper motto should be "Work harder not smarter!"

This. For me access is the limiting factor. More trail equals more fur basically . Then a fire comes through and it’s back to square one. Spend a lot time of time checking beaver houses to find the live ones. And in order to reach out farther line camps need to be put up. But no other trappers even close by so I’m able to manage my take as I see fit. I digress- back to the Canadian system. What do you all do if a fire takes out your whole area?

Thanks Boco.
I understand the need for cold to trap, the fella we hunted with we used his trails and they weren't froze. Talk about a nightmare! lol.

We left for his camp at 8 one morning with all tracked 6 wheelers and Argo's. We corduroyed alot of places but turned around and didn't get out of that place till 2 tne next morning! If you stood in one place too long, ya started to sink, lol.

Next day we went north to a different line and barely got into that place. Till we left after 2 weeks, it was froze and we sifted right out. Talking to him since, with the global warming we have, he started to rent a helicopter during deer season to get hunters into his camps.

I also have a cousin who has trapped up there. Not sure how he did it, maybe just a ride along, but i'm not totally ignorant (just enough to ask dumb questions ;)) as to the trapping up there as some seem to think.

I spent two weeks in his camp and talked alot to him about his trapping. That's when he said about the 25 dollar bounty and how he run his line. Definitely a different world from what we have here.

Hope ya get some cold weather!

End of the day, we trap a bunch of critters, can manage our areas effectively, and we have a ball of fun doing it!

That's what it's all about Hutchy!

Loved the area when i was up there. I was in northern Manitoba and could live in that area. Not many places i say that about that don't have mountains! lol.

We were going back in and stopped for lunch. The owner said about hunting theses ridges. I started looking for one? After not seeing what we call a ridge, i asked where these ridges were.

his answer.....Your on one because your not standing in water! lol.

Evidently you are as you can't picture how a trapper can catch several hundred critters on the back of a snowmobile. There are many of us who do it down here. I say down here tongue in cheek as the Elliot Lake area Boco mention is south of me lol.

When beaver were worth trapping I used to spend all day on the seat. 30 to 50 miles on the sled, 10 to 20 a beaver a day many days. If we had marten, lynx, fisher, unlimited otter quotas a guy could add a lot more to that total. Personally I'd take this type of trapping vs road trapping most days. Weather can be tough but one usually has the woods to himself.

The hard part of a RTL would be accessibility. That is why lines with expansive trails and line cabins can be so expensive.

In the James Bay area if you look at a map there are hundreds of thousands of rivers and creeks.The creeks are the highways in winter and the rivers are highways in summer-has always been that way here.The acess into the interior of traplines here is easy in winter.Especially late winter-February and march you can go everywhere with snowshoes or a snowmachine.
People here say "UP" South and "DOWN" North because that's the way you travel the creeks and rivers-downhill or downstream to go north and upstream to go south.
Logging roads are OK until they wash out or get grown in,eskers are the same-too hard to brush open-it would be easier to cut a totally new trail thru the black spruce.

Steven,is Jim R still hammering the beaver in winter or has he slacked off a bit because of his age and the market for smaller beaver?

I always thought that the refugia system of management assumed untrapped areas provided the migrants to repopulate trapped areas. Hard to believe untrapped areas are devoid of wildlife because they are not properly managed by trapping?

Refugia method works for some animals like marten,but not all the time.Does not work those years when there is a widespread prey base crash and the adults abandon their home range en masse.
It will not work for beaver very well especially if the untrapped refugia is large.Beaver are too destructive of their own habitat when left untrapped,and prone to contagious disease like tularemia which can spread to managed populations and decimate them also.
They wont be devoid of animals but the habitat doesn't sustain anywhere near the same numbers.
I have been on lines in the past where beaver had not been trapped in 15 years.All of the creeks had dead houses and dead ponds in series for miles with none or 1 live house.
I find what works well for beaver on a registered line is a rotational harvest of about 3 years.In other words trap a part of your line hard for one season then leave it alone for 2 years,and trap another area,sticking close to your overall survey numbers of total beavers removed each year.

Robert, I haven't spoken with Jim in a couple years. He was still putting up some pretty impressive numbers on the seat of a snowmobile then and he is in his 70s.

I did say it looks like it would be hard doing their way. I still think it would be hard compared to the way guys here do it, but that's an opinion. I did say i can't see hundreds when the quota's shown for the line didn't add up to hundreds.

Reason I asked is here in PA I go into each season not having a clue as to the furbearer population- wouldn't have a clue as to how to manage it. Rats are slim to none, mink are OK, Beaver have vanished, coon are in pockets it seems, and as far as canines go, could be reds, greys or coyotes. Its a different world here from east to west PA for canines I might add.

i can check a 100 bridges mostly gangset in 8 hrs with the heater fan on low. .apples to oranges though.

walkin line here=truck broke down.

That's what i was thinking PCR, but i guess it's easier than i think up there.

or we don't realize how good we have it.probably 50-50

When I was up there I ran some of the line with the F150. When we got snow we ran the line with the bike or the snow go.
But when I was doing the land line Jim was running most of the marten line by boat. WE even ran some of the line by dog team. Jims buddy came over and took us around by dog team.

Boco Ontario beaver in the James Bay area may be self destructive of their own habitat leading to low densities of beaver, but I'm not sure that is a problem everywhere. Sounds like in a lot of areas they stay at super high levels unless they are trapped. Here they seem to die of enough other causes they can be easily overtrapped. Probably why most of Alaska had a seasonal trapper limit back when beaver were valuable enough to trap and sell to a furbuyer.

You know this subject of RTL's comes up here. We basically have gentlemen's agreements that are similar in much of Alaska that work in the same manner without all the bureaucracy and "good ole boy" stuff. From a technical stand point it would be interesting to know how the original boundaries of RTL's were created?

It is being managed for you by the State. Actually, much of the lower 48 where there is mostly private property relies on rufugia.( Being untrapped private property.)

i'm the mayor of refugia.

Yes you are. A road line is just like a trail line, just smoother, and without the construction and maintenance costs.

Actually the seasons are set by the state but they are almost identical seasons each year. They never change anything. I know of no way they could get an idea of furbearer numbers.

Yep. South Dakota's 3.5 pages of trapping regs barely changes from year to year. Most critters have open seasons except water creatures and bobcats. Bcats probably have the most restrictive regs but the season is only open West River and a few counties on the east side along the river in the south-central to southeast. No real quotas on anything. Everything is fairly straight forward.

Boco, I finally checked on Google Earth Pro for you. I tried actually yesterday but GE sort of flaked out and I couldn't get it restarted.

It appears for you Canadian bush people, and probably Alaska as well, you're probably out of luck using GE other than just get the lay of the land in a few years in the past. Boco's lat, long yielded 2 images in the "historical" slider, Aug 9 2014 and May 29, 2011 (if you believe GE's dates). My cousin's farm in se SD has at least 8 dates between the spring of 1998 and July 2015, although not all of those are really very clear so not good, sharp high-res stuff. I have 10 dates over the property that became my house ranging from 1991 through last year. The most recent one was when there was a neighborhood wide rummage sale going on, an interesting pix.

Google doesn't either fly any of its own satellites or aerials, at least not yet or what they'll admit to. They use imagery that they mostly can get for free, so that tends to be various government agencies or commercial entities that the federal gov supports in various ways. The Canadian gov uses the U.S. Landsat satellite system (2 birds flying right now, although one is old and semi-crippled) that have 30 meters resolution with the multi-spectral bands (think various visible and non-visible "colors") and 15 m pan (b&w). Might see really large beaver dams at that resolution but not individual lodges and such. The things that the Can forest service (forgut the formal name) cares about mostly are monitored at the landscape scale- logging, fires, insects and disease so your gov probably doesn't fly much for high res aerial over the bush OR if they do, they don't give the imagery away for free. Or Google, for whatever reason, doesn't want it or can't get it. Don't know.

So, yes, you Canuks were correct, GE is pretty limited and probably dated for the bush. For guys in the lower 48, most places have fairly good high-res imagery within the last 2-3 years but nowhere probably has "real time" meter or so resolution unless you're "special" for various reasons.

Anyway, we're just talking the "civilian" government here. The national security assets are a whole different world. Not my gig.

Nothing to look at here but trees,lol.They probably went crosseyed the first time.
Thanks for checking it out pcfed.

That’s all lol , I can do that easy here too in the southern part of Ontario where I live , whole different animal in the north lol

Ontario is a shell of the beaver it produced in the 70-80’s this province produced 200,000 beavers a season at one point , good management and lots of water can do amazing stuff

What kind of trap do you set for a cougar? We can only black trap bears with a rifle in BC, is it the same for cougars there? Cougars aren't even considered fur-bearers. There are general open seasons for them for hunting however.

Doug

The government has many changes in mind. They want to do away with selling lines. Too many of them are not being trapped. Many have bought them just for hunting property for deer moose etc..

No RTL's here in NWT. We know each others lines and MOST people respect them. No limits on what we can catch per season but those of us that plan to trap every year know the numbers we can take year to year without cleaning them all out.

Old thread resurectted from the dead….lol.
People have tried to get RTLs in northern Mb for that reason, but they’re not too bright or don’t do any research. Doesn’t work. A good chunk of southern Mb is “open” trapping area. No quotas.

Where I am in what is “pretty far north” it’s as simple as go wherever I desire in unoccupied crown land and on whatever private grounds I get permission. There are zero quotas.