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Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands

Posted By: Muskrat

Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/20/18 02:22 PM

Amongst all the other issues we face as trappers, hunters and fishermen, this one is a particular thorn in my side and many others as well. Back when the Legislature’s Joint Finance Committee okayed a provision in the 2015-17 budget to safely cross the tracks in its budget review awhile back, most of us thought our governor would accept its recommendations. Didn't happen.

There have been threats of tickets and from what I've heard tickets have been issued. The public meeting in Stoddard I attended two years ago sure didn't make it look like the railroad would allow a simple crossing of the tracks where there was no crossing. Some of us have given up on accessing these areas and some of us continue to do so. I continue to cross where necessary to access public lands and waters and will choose jail time over paying any fines. There will come a day when I am no longer able to trap, and I hope that when the day comes I can look back at my life and say at least I tried.

To those of you who insist this is a safety issue and the law should be followed just because our governor decided so, I ask you to reflect on your driving habits. Where the speed limit is posted at 55 mph, do you drive over that speed limit? If/when you do, are you breaking the law? Are you placing yourself and others in danger by your reckless speeding? Or do you assume you know what you're doing and that law is for others? I would wager my crossing the tracks after looking both ways is much less dangerous than you driving over the speed limit on our highways, and faster than the posted speed limit on the freeways.

Whatever.

So we have a new candidate for governor. Tony Evers. A democrat. Yes, by golly, a democrat. Hang in there, at least read this post to the end.

So I called their number posted on the internet and put the question about crossing the tracks to access public lands and waters to hunt, fish and trap. Twice I called. Each time I gave them my name, phone number, address and email address. I received no phone call back yesterday.

This morning I checked emails and received this, apparently yesterday:

Good afternoon, Michael,

I am a policy advisor to Tony and received your inquiry regarding the railroad track issue. The railroad lobby fought hard for the law you are referencing under the auspices of limiting their hypothetical liability. I don't mean to trivialize the issue, but if we can trust hunters to walk around safely with loaded weapons, I think we can trust them to look both ways when they get to a railroad track. Not surprisingly, there's no evidence of anyone being injured trying to cross a railroad track to access public lands.

As Governor, Tony will work with conservation leaders in the Legislature to address the issue. Returning reasonable access is a common sense approach.

Thank you for writing in,

Matt Wallock
Team Tony

Now I realize this presents a conundrum for some, maybe many of you. I'm just sharing information here. At least it's a breath of fresh air to read something that actually makes sense from a politician's spokesperson.

Who knows? Maybe our present governor will have a change of heart if this gets out there and realizes it might cost him votes.

I trust no politician. There's nothing binding "Team Tony" from doing absolutely nothing on this issue.

I posted this on the Strictly Trapping forum, and will post again here for those of you who aren't up to speed on this issue. It's a Pat Durkin article from 2015 that will sort of sum up where we're at today with this issue:

Thanks to Gov. Scott Walker’s veto pen, hunters and anglers can be ticketed as trespassers when crossing railroad tracks to reach public lands and fishing areas; and 11 nonprofit conservation organizations will have a tougher time building trails, and protecting fish and wildlife habitats.
The vetoes surprised some folks who thought they made their case when the Legislature’s Joint Finance Committee backed their efforts during its budget review in May and June. Given the JFC’s GOP majority, they thought Gov. Walker would accept its recommendations. Besides, the guv often says he wants to increase hunting and fishing opportunities, and forge partnerships between the private and public sectors.
Pfft. Even though the railroad-trespass exemption would cost nothing, and the combined $1 million in grants to nonprofit groups amounted to mere budget dust in the state’s $72.7 billion spending plan for 2015-17, Gov. Walker vetoed the items.
Let’s look at the railroad-trespass veto first. Safe to say, hunters and anglers have been crossing railways to hunt and fish since train tracks were first laid about 150 years ago. But only recently has a railroad company, the Burlington Northern Santa Fe Railway, started patrolling its 214 miles of tracks bordering the Mississippi River to chase off anglers who dare cross, no matter that many folks are walking from paved parking lots the state built for fishing/hunting access.
Have any hunters or anglers been hit by a train? No. Have conductors had to blast their train’s horns at some hunters and anglers? Apparently so. But let’s concede most hunters and anglers know to look both ways for a train, which are far more predictable and less hazardous than rivers, lakes, firearms, treestands and frozen ponds.
Marc Schultz, chairman of the La Crosse County Conservation Alliance, and chair of the county’s delegation to the Wisconsin Conservation Congress, said it’s hard to reach vast stretches of the Mississippi River bottoms without crossing railways. Further, designated crossings are often so far apart that people will effectively be cut off from most public hunting and fishing areas if the BNSF enforces Walker’s veto.
“This state revolves around natural resources,” Schultz said. “These lands and water are the major components of our recreation. We’ve crossed railroad tracks all our lives to reach those resources. They’re culturally ingrained in us.”
That’s why Schultz supported the JFC when it inserted language in the budget to let people walk “directly across the tracks of any railroad.” The JFC added, “This activity would not be considered trespassing and could not be prevented by the railroad.”
Gov. Walker, however, rejected the change, writing: “I am vetoing this section because I am concerned that allowing people to walk across railroad tracks outside of a designated crossing impairs public safety.”
Hmm. If we’re fretting about safety, why raise the speed limit to 70 mph? Why trust people to safely travel 173 feet per second while driving a relatively soundproof vehicle, but assume they’ll be irresponsible daredevils when crossing an 8.5-foot-wide train track on foot?
Schultz is more diplomatic. “I think the governor made his decision on bad information,” he said. “We’re not giving up.”
Meanwhile, Gov. Walker also axed $1.02 million in annual grants that 11 nonprofit organizations have regularly converted into volunteer labor, public access and other contributions that multiplied the state’s investment by four- to tenfold.
The governor explained his veto this way: “I object to earmarking these funds for specific conservation organizations without requiring accountability in the use of these funds.”
Accountability? You’d think the guv would be careful about uttering that word after his Wisconsin Economic Development Corp. awarded $500,000 in unsecured loans to a struggling construction company, and made at least 27 awards totaling $124.4 million to companies without doing formal staff reviews.
In contrast, the groups receiving the far smaller conservation grants have long track records of accomplishments. Most also must make matching contributions, and document their efforts with the Department of Natural Resources quarterly or annually, depending on the grant’s requirements.
For instance, the River Alliance of Wisconsin has been receiving grants of roughly $70,000 annually since 1999, and helps more than 130 river and watershed citizen-run organizations. It files quarterly reports and meets quarterly with DNR staff to review its work. Walker deleted its JFC-approved annual grant of $62,300.
The Gathering Waters Conservancy has received annual grants since 1996 to help citizens preserve, protect and enhance their land and water resources, which often means opening more lands to hunting and fishing. Walker deleted its JCF-approved grant for $124,500.
The Natural Resources Foundation has received annual grants since 2000 to boost private-sector investments and educational efforts on state-managed natural resources, and files an annual report with the DNR. The NRF raises money from donors and members, conducts wide-ranging field trips, and provides grants of its own to the DNR and other organizations. Walker deleted its JFC-approved grant of $75,700.
The Ice Age Trail Alliance has received annual state grants since about 1995 to create, support and protect the state’s 1,000-mile portion of the Ice Age National Scenic Trail, which passes through 30 counties. The trail is managed in a partnership with the National Park Service, and trail work is done by volunteers organized and supervised by the Alliance. Walker deleted its JFC-approved grant of $66,800.
The vetoes shocked Ruth Oppedahl, executive director of the NRF. She said her organization has donated more than $3 million to the DNR to manage state natural areas, and felt gratified that the JFC understood the value of its efforts.
“We had a very positive response from the Joint Finance Committee,” Oppedahl said. “They got the message that for every dollar we receive from the state, we reinvest anywhere from $4 to $10 each year. We’re still here, but this has been a surprising couple of days.”
Denny Caneff, executive director of the River Alliance, said he wasn’t surprised. “It’s petty,” he said. “The DNR didn’t request these cuts, but we kind of saw it coming. With the Walker administration, you’re always wondering. If you say anything about them, you’re setting yourself up to be cut. So even though Joint Finance restored our funding, we knew it might not get past the governor, and it didn’t.”
Patrick Durkin is a freelance writer who covers outdoors for Press-Gazette Media.
Posted By: Calvin

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/20/18 04:48 PM

I wish you had more support over there in WI. My buddy moved there from MN and about quit trapping due to WI laws.
Posted By: wallfur

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/20/18 05:39 PM

unfortunately, railroad is private property and can be posted just like any other private land.
Posted By: Muskrat

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/20/18 05:45 PM

Originally Posted By: wallfur
unfortunately, railroad is private property and can be posted just like any other private land.


Also unfortunately, with respect to crossing railroad tracks, our governor had a chance to reverse this here in Wisconsin.

Posted By: Dirty D

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/20/18 05:52 PM

Originally Posted By: wallfur
unfortunately, railroad is private property and can be posted just like any other private land.



agree with this except for one small detail.
I don't find it unfortunate that private property can be posted.
I own land and I don't want Joe Public mucking around on it.

For me this is an issue of Private Property Rights.
I know alot of you are upset about this cause your access to public lands are limited.
You wouldn't care if your ox wasn't getting gored.
Private Property rights trump your access to public land.

As far as Tony Evers, Elimination of private property rights sound like communism.



Posted By: Muskrat

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/20/18 06:11 PM

We're talking about crossing railroad tracks, DD.

Apparently you have no need to access public lands and waters that are now off limits due to inaccessibility.

Nice job with the analogy on a politician that has the guts to take this issue on.



Posted By: Canvasback2

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/20/18 07:43 PM

So, let me get this straight !!!!!

If the State of Wisconsin has , for example; 500 acres of State owned land for hunting, trapping and fishing, and ALL four sides are bordered by train tracks; the Railroad can PREVENT ACCESS TO THAT STATE OWNED LAND ???????

Could they prevent access to that State owned land , if there was a creek that runs through the State owned land ; and the railroad had a bridge crossing that creek ? All anyone would have to do, is walk down the middle of the creek under that bridge, and they would be on the State land .
Posted By: Boco

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/20/18 07:49 PM

The railroad will put in a crossing for people to safely cross the track.This will include flanger markers and whistle boards for the train.
All you have to do is request a crossing and pay for it.
Posted By: Muskrat

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/20/18 07:55 PM

Originally Posted By: Canvasback2
So, let me get this straight !!!!!

If the State of Wisconsin has , for example; 500 acres of State owned land for hunting, trapping and fishing, and ALL four sides are bordered by train tracks; the Railroad can PREVENT ACCESS TO THAT STATE OWNED LAND ???????

Could they prevent access to that State owned land , if there was a creek that runs through the State owned land ; and the railroad had a bridge crossing that creek ? All anyone would have to do, is walk down the middle of the creek under that bridge, and they would be on the State land .


yes

providing the creek can be accessed legally, then that state land could be accessed legally by walking under the tracks at the bridge crossing

Take a look at this map, specifically from La Crosse northward along the Mississippi River valley. The railroad tracks present a wall to accessibility to the Upper Mississippi Wildlife Refuge where there are no crossings or the crossings are few and far between. South of La Crosse is the same.

There are places along the highway where parking places were built for folks to park their car, walk across the tracks, and hunt, fish or trap on the other side.

Posted By: Muskrat

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/20/18 07:56 PM

Originally Posted By: Boco
The railroad will put in a crossing for people to safely cross the track.This will include flanger markers and whistle boards for the train.
All you have to do is request a crossing and pay for it.


send the bill to the governor
Posted By: Boco

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/20/18 08:02 PM

The railroad don't care who pays for it as long as its paid for.
Posted By: Muskrat

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/20/18 08:04 PM

Originally Posted By: Boco
The railroad don't care who pays for it as long as its paid for.


for sure
Posted By: Boco

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/20/18 08:07 PM

If the government accepts the liability for the crossing,no problem then for the railroad or the citizens.
I'm surprised the right of way is not fenced.
Posted By: Canvasback2

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/20/18 08:07 PM

We have the same problem here with the Railroad blocking access to private property. Farmers and other property owners that own land on both sides of the tracks , and have old rail crossings put in decades ago. Suddenly, the Railroad decided to park their rail cars through the whole Town during Deer Season. Some Maple Syrup producers have been cut off from accessing their Maple Trees. All those years, they had access to their land, now they can't get to their property. Pay taxes on and they can't get to, and can't sell it because nobody can access it.
Posted By: Canvasback2

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/20/18 08:11 PM

Originally Posted By: Boco
If the government accepts the liability for the crossing,no problem then for the railroad or the citizens.
I'm surprised the right of way is not fenced.


Wouldn't it be much simpler to just remove any liability to the Railroad by anyone crossing the Railroad Tracks? Take the ability to sue the Railroad out of the equation. If someone gets hurt crossing the tracks , it's their fault , not the Railroad.
Posted By: corky

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/20/18 08:15 PM

" but if we can trust hunters to walk around safely with loaded weapons, I think we can trust them to look both ways when they get to a railroad track. Not surprisingly, there's no evidence of anyone being injured trying to cross a railroad track to access public lands."

The problem with that quote is that Tony Evers does not trust ANY civilian to walk around safely with loaded weapons. F rated on 2nd Amendment.
Posted By: Muskrat

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/20/18 08:18 PM

So what's the solution Corky? Scott Walker isn't going to budge. Too much money coming his way.
Posted By: Boco

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/20/18 08:19 PM

I don't think you can take away anyones right to sue.This is why due diligence is required these days to be able to defend yourself.
Posted By: corky

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/20/18 08:25 PM

I'm sorry. I don't have a solution. I am in your corner and have written/contacted the Governor's office and several legislators that I know personally on this issue even though I am not personally affected. It fell on deaf ears. Best thing to do is keep plugging away until someone takes an initiative. I know that on the overall issues affecting sportsmen Walker is the far more desirable candidate even if he is dead wrong on this one.
Posted By: Muskrat

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/20/18 08:25 PM

Originally Posted By: Boco
I don't think you can take away anyones right to sue.This is why due diligence is required these days to be able to defend yourself.


In 1963, Wisconsin’s Recreational Use Statute, Sec. 895.52, eliminated the liability of landowners when they open their property to public recreation.

The same could be done with railroad property with respect to directly crossing the tracks to access public lands and waters.

https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/895/II/52
Posted By: red mt

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/20/18 08:45 PM

Originally Posted By: Boco
If the government accepts the liability for the crossing,no problem then for the railroad or the citizens.
I'm surprised the right of way is not fenced.

Yes sir this is correct,
That how railroad looks at it also here
Like boco said kind of surprising it's not fenced off.
Posted By: The Beav

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/20/18 08:52 PM

Call Tammy.

I really don't see the big issue just cross the freakin tracks. I don't think the RR Is going to give a crap. They do have to catch you you know.
Posted By: red mt

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/20/18 09:05 PM

Xing is only $250000. get your fish& game to spring for it.

We call them fishing accesses it's widely disputed deal here too lol

Private property rights and states rights have got to be guarded.

I work for a railroad they will not let any employees trap on there right away unless directly for them( ie ) (beaver damage)
Posted By: Diggerman

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/20/18 09:08 PM

I am not surprised that Tony Evers doesn't care about private property borders, He said at the debate last night that if he was Governor he would give drivers licenses to illegal aliens. I don't believe I will change party affiliations because of this. Mushrat you would vote for the devil over Scott Walker cause he took control of the schools away from the unions and gave it back to the people.
Posted By: Donnersurvivor

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/20/18 09:14 PM

1) Use emanate domain to seize private land to put in your rail road tracks

2) No longer allow the crossing of said tracks as they are now "private property"

3) When someone tries to get the state to help them with access issues you have caused talk about the importance of protecting private property...
Posted By: Diggerman

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/20/18 09:19 PM

Originally Posted By: Donnersurvivor
1) Use emanate domain to seize private land to put in your rail road tracks

2) No longer allow the crossing of said tracks as they are now "private property"

3) When someone tries to get the state to help them with access issues you have caused talk about the importance of protecting private property...

Very interesting look at it, thanks.
Posted By: Muskrat

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/20/18 09:38 PM

Originally Posted By: Diggerman
. . . Mushrat you would vote for the devil over Scott Walker cause he took control of the schools away from the unions and gave it back to the people.


You just can't let this go, can you Diggerman. The people have control of the schools? Why don't you start a separate thread on that and see where it goes.

The issue is crossing railroad tracks, snowflake.

If Walker wasn't on the Koch nipple we wouldn't be having this conversation. He had an opportunity to right the wrong, but he's bought and paid for.

IF . . . this issue comes to the public, Walker senses he may lose sportsmen votes, there's a chance he might reverse his position and support what his legislature asked him to support four years ago.

Maybe.
Posted By: MsgRet

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/20/18 10:17 PM

I have RR tracks crossing a nearby public Marsh. Not saying I do it but to get to one of the good areas I would have to straddle the tracks and cross them illegally(not saying I do). T. Evers will tell you anything you want to hear.
Posted By: Muskrat

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/20/18 10:39 PM

Originally Posted By: MsgRet
. . . T. Evers will tell you anything you want to hear.


What politician doesn't?
Posted By: Dirt

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/20/18 11:39 PM

I remember when we used to hunt the railroad tracks. crazy
Posted By: mutt

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/21/18 12:02 AM

I dono how you would do this, but try to get the topic brought up in a debate. Maybe if the walker administration see's the sportsman weighing thier odds with differant candidates it will heighten the concern. Kinda late for this cycle, but it cant hurt. And maybe it will start the movement for the next cycle if nothing else.
Posted By: mnsota

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/21/18 12:11 AM

I'm with the Beav,..put your ear to the track,iffin you don't hear anything,cross over and get to trappin'
Thousands cross the southern tracks everyday,nutin' seems to happen to them! wink
Posted By: tjm

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/21/18 12:12 AM

If the state wanted you on that land they would create a road to access it, Obviously the state does not want you on their land.
Have some one else ask that candidate to maintain the prohibition to crossing tracks he will get an answer opposite what you got. In either case the candidate will do nothing.
Posted By: Muskrat

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/21/18 12:32 AM

Originally Posted By: tjm
If the state wanted you on that land they would create a road to access it, Obviously the state does not want you on their land.


Obviously you don't know what you're talking about.

"The state" built parking areas for folks to park in before heading over the hill. You can't drive down the hillside.
Posted By: Boco

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/21/18 12:38 AM

They should have budgeted for a crossing at the same time.Maybe they will yet.
Posted By: Michigan Trappin

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/21/18 01:36 AM

I'm in the camp that says "if they used imminent domain" to get the property to put in the tracks, then they either should put in a crossing or just allow crossing at certain points like the parking areas

If they didn't use imminent domain to get the property, than they should be called out for preventing access by sportsman and other groups and find a way to hurt their pockets, because money talks period

JMO
Posted By: Boco

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/21/18 01:43 AM

They took the land from the Indians for the railroad.
Posted By: Rat Masterson

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/21/18 01:55 AM

All the crossings for vehicles have a stop sign, that's it. I think the Corps of Engineers and the barge companies want to lock out sportsman and limit access so they can do whatever they want with little oversite.
Posted By: AJE

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/21/18 01:58 AM

Originally Posted By: Boco

All you have to do is request a crossing and pay for it.
Imagine the cost though.
Posted By: AJE

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/21/18 02:05 AM

Originally Posted By: mnsota
I'm with the Beav,..put your ear to the track,iffin you don't hear anything,cross over and get to trappin'
Thousands cross the southern tracks everyday,nutin' seems to happen to them! wink
Yeah, but I have a trapping buddy in LaCrosse Co that got a warning for doing just that. He doesn't even know how they figured out he did it. I think there was a photo. Perhaps a hidden camera. He warned me recently about the seriousness of this law. I had no idea. I've crossed tracks before, we all have. A landowner was recently giving me a tour of his land he wants me to trap. He said, "just walk across this short tressle." We did. I told my buddy and he scared me by alerting me to how strict RR R.O.W. law is now. Yikes. Sounds like a lot of fisherman are effected in some areas of the state too.
Posted By: wallfur

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/21/18 02:07 AM

Originally Posted By: Boco
The railroad will put in a crossing for people to safely cross the track.This will include flanger markers and whistle boards for the train.
All you have to do is request a crossing and pay for it.
......that's true and private crossings here in west run around 5000 per year.
Posted By: wallfur

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/21/18 02:10 AM

Originally Posted By: Muskrat
Originally Posted By: Boco
The railroad will put in a crossing for people to safely cross the track.This will include flanger markers and whistle boards for the train.
All you have to do is request a crossing and pay for it.


send the bill to the governor
...I don't think the governor wants or needs to cross there.
Posted By: Macthediver

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/21/18 02:10 AM

You guys that say just go ahead an cross or have state build a crossing just don't get it. You can't believe is it not fenced?? miles of fence threw the federal refuge?? Feds would probably fight that for wild life movement but not for sportsman..

As Muskrat has said there are parking lots in some of the more popular spots built years ago. Those lots used to be full of cars during ice fish season. Now they only have people who park and watch the birds on the river. You park in the lot go down a steep bank, where some of the sportsman clubs paid for steps. Then down a path and cross the tracks onto the ice. It is not allowed any more. One of these lots is about two miles from my house go by it all the time. The rail road did have a security guy regularly checking these lots.
There is also rail road tracks threw a good part Black River State forest land in Jackson co. I don't know how much they look at or patrol that RR track. We had places we hunted there where crossing just at a crossing and hiking into would add miles to a walk. That is all State forest land..

I've talked to and e-mail some of my reps don't really get much more than we are looking at it..

Mac
Posted By: AJE

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/21/18 02:13 AM

I bet 2% of citizens know about these strict regs. Maybe only 1%.
Posted By: AJE

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/21/18 02:18 AM

The stupidest RR incident I've heard of is a pair of snowmobilers that used an active RR bed as a shortcut 1 night. 1 of their skis got stuck in the tracks. They called someone to come help yank them out. This could have been very bad. I suspect lawmakers hear of some of this occasional stupidity, and a few idiots ruin it for everyone.

I don't think the issue is that the state doesn't want people using public lands.
Posted By: wallfur

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/21/18 02:24 AM

[quote=Canvasback2]We have the same problem here with the Railroad blocking access to private property. Farmers and other property owners that own land on both sides of the tracks , and have old rail crossings put in decades ago. Suddenly, the Railroad decided to park their rail cars through the whole Town during Deer Season. Some Maple Syrup producers have been cut off from accessing their Maple Trees. All those years, they had access to their land, now they can't get to their property. Pay taxes on and they can't get to, and can't sell it because nobody can access it. [/quote/}.....canvas if those crossings have been there for decades they are more than likely "grandfathered in" and those crossing have to be kept opened and maintained by the railroad...check the roadcrossing sign post and see if it has a little blue sign on it....it will have the crossing code on it along with a phone number.....report it!
Posted By: tjm

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/21/18 02:26 AM

Was the law changed after the parking lots were built or did they build them knowing they cause a problem?
Was there a specific law that gave the right to trespass at those points that was later revoked?

It appears as though someone built those parking areas just to provoke a problem? Are they on public land or the RR?
Posted By: The Beav

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/21/18 02:41 AM

I can remember back when we all stood on the tracks and shot geese on the Horicon marsh.
Posted By: AJE

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/21/18 02:44 AM

I thought RR's were under Federal regulations. Guess I was wrong?
Posted By: wallfur

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/21/18 02:44 AM

the last 10 years or so out west the railroad has stepped up there patrols and enforcing the trespass laws. mostly because of the nations railway systems are considered terrorist targets. and yes there seem to be more idiots getting runover and getting there cars stuck on the tracks....every train engine has a camera on it and films trespassers and the vehicle lic plates number....LEO is called immediately and the dispatcher informed by the train crews....there was a time when railroad never enforced the laws but those days are over.
Posted By: Macthediver

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/21/18 02:51 AM

The parking lots were built back in the 70s as I recall. The locations were so popular to fisherman at that time that cars were a hazard parked along shoulder of the highway. There was a law or rule that allowed people to directly cross the tracks at a 90 degree angle. Everyone has know for years it was private property and you could be fined for walk down tracks or loiter. People actually did back then and no one said anything.

I honestly think sportsman got screwed by the people protesting the oil trains. I really think when they gave the RR grief about a second track threw a piece of Marsh here. All the old ladies in their Prius complaining about the number of oil trains that were going to kill us all. Then they were running around with the cameras taking pictures of the long trains. They were calling 911 about drips of oil on tracks at crossings..Had photos of Rail road bridges with cracks in cement or cracked timbers. I heard that if you get caught on tracks it's a fine. Get caught taking pictures along the tracks really big fine..

Mac
Posted By: wallfur

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/21/18 02:51 AM

yes RR's are under federal regulation and have there own LEO and swat teams paroling lol
Posted By: AJE

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/21/18 02:55 AM

So this must be way more than just a Wi issue. I was thinking someone implied the governor has messed this up.
Posted By: wallfur

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/21/18 03:04 AM

not sure about the issue there....but the railroad has really stepped up there security since 9/11. including yearly training classes for every employee on dealing with trespassers and explosive devices awareness.
Posted By: MsgRet

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/21/18 03:19 AM

Homeland Security and the US department of transportation combine in what's called "co-sector" security. This includes both cyber and physical security of the RR systems. They delegate down to regional and state levels (hence the training).
Posted By: wallfur

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/21/18 03:23 AM

yup
Posted By: Muskrat

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/21/18 11:03 AM

Originally Posted By: AJE
. . . I was thinking someone implied the governor has messed this up.


It was a lot to read in that first post. Here ya go, from Pat Durkin's article in 2015.

Thanks to Gov. Scott Walker’s veto pen, hunters and anglers can be ticketed as trespassers when crossing railroad tracks to reach public lands and fishing areas; and 11 nonprofit conservation organizations will have a tougher time building trails, and protecting fish and wildlife habitats.
The vetoes surprised some folks who thought they made their case when the Legislature’s Joint Finance Committee backed their efforts during its budget review in May and June. Given the JFC’s GOP majority, they thought Gov. Walker would accept its recommendations. Besides, the guv often says he wants to increase hunting and fishing opportunities, and forge partnerships between the private and public sectors.
Pfft. Even though the railroad-trespass exemption would cost nothing, and the combined $1 million in grants to nonprofit groups amounted to mere budget dust in the state’s $72.7 billion spending plan for 2015-17, Gov. Walker vetoed the items.
Posted By: Dirty D

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/21/18 01:01 PM

Please tell me why a PRIVATE landowner should have to allow trespassing on his property?

Just that simple.

It does not matter that he used to allow it, it doesn't matter that there is public lands on the other side, it does not matter if the State or Fed Gov't will dissolve the landowner of liability claims, it does not matter how the landowner acquired the land.

Once the land is owned by a Private entity that entity has rights, one of which is to control who goes on his property.

Of course if there was once a legal document (easement) allowing passage/use that would be different.
Absent that the public does not have a right to trespass.

Just that simple.

I get it, you used to get away with it cause the RR looked the other way or didn't care for years, even decades.
But now he does.

Its part of the reason America is better than a lot of countries, PRIVATE PROPERTY RIGHTS.
Posted By: Muskrat

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/21/18 01:50 PM

You're absolutely right, DD. To heck with the thousands of sportsmen and women that used to access these public lands and waters to hunt, fish and trap.

No need to change, eh buddy?

It's all about PRIVATE PROPERTY RIGHTS.

Darned good thing it doesn't affect you, right? You must be president of your local Looking Out for Number One chapter.
Posted By: wallfur

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/21/18 02:33 PM

Muskrat have you or the sportsman talked with the railroad? thought of paying for a crossing? in some cases the crossing can also benefit the railroad giving them access for them to set on and off the tracks with there hyrail trucks. the railroad is a business and crossing are expensive to maintain. Why leave it to the government to fix it for you?
Posted By: Muskrat

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/21/18 02:48 PM

Originally Posted By: wallfur
Muskrat have you or the sportsman talked with the railroad?


yup, and have attended a meeting, end result: lip service

Originally Posted By: wallfur
thought of paying for a crossing?


who has that kind of money?

Originally Posted By: wallfur
in some cases the crossing can also benefit the railroad giving them access for them to set on and off the tracks with there hyrail trucks. the railroad is a business and crossing are expensive to maintain. Why leave it to the government to fix it for you?


Who else will fix it? "The government" fixed the landowner liability issue years ago. The same could be done for directly crossing railroad tracks to access public lands for the purposes of hunting, fishing and trapping.

Interesting isn't it? Go back through this thread and count the number of posts that give positive advice on how Wisconsin citizens might change this ruling to once again allow us to access these public lands and waters for the purposes of hunting, fishing and trapping.

Now count the number of posts that point out any number of reasons why we should give up and accept the fact that these public areas are now off limits.

I've read it here before and have come to believe it. Trappers are our own worst enemy.

The Looking Out for Number One club is alive and well on this forum.
Posted By: Muskrat

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/21/18 03:11 PM

Think this Wisconsin citizen hunts, fishes or traps on any of that public land that is now inaccessible? President of the Looking Out for Number One Club and no doubt actively recruiting.


Originally Posted By: Dirty D
Originally Posted By: wallfur
unfortunately, railroad is private property and can be posted just like any other private land.



agree with this except for one small detail.
I don't find it unfortunate that private property can be posted.
I own land and I don't want Joe Public mucking around on it.

For me this is an issue of Private Property Rights.
I know alot of you are upset about this cause your access to public lands are limited.
You wouldn't care if your ox wasn't getting gored.
Private Property rights trump your access to public land.

As far as Tony Evers, Elimination of private property rights sound like communism.



Posted By: wallfur

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/21/18 03:11 PM

which railroad did you talk to? BNSF or UPRR? and about the money, you said it effected thousands of sportsman. sooooooooooooooooo if you pooled your money it would only cost 1 or 2 dollars each per year for a crossing! however if it was me I would not want to trap or hunt a place that has thousands accessing it. but I can see your point and hope you reach an agreement with RR. I agree with you on being able to access public land but not at the private property owners expense.
Posted By: Zim

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/21/18 03:12 PM

Who would assume liability for an "incident" with someone crossing the tracks? Normally an incident with a train is fatal. I doubt anyone on the railroad side of the issue is gonna back down on a safety issue.

Zim
Posted By: wallfur

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/21/18 03:17 PM

yes your correct that is a big issue with the RR. but not impossible to resolve.
Posted By: Muskrat

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/21/18 03:28 PM

Originally Posted By: Zim
Who would assume liability for an "incident" with someone crossing the tracks? Normally an incident with a train is fatal. I doubt anyone on the railroad side of the issue is gonna back down on a safety issue.

Zim


Zim, legislation could be drafted to mirror Wisconsin 895.52 with respect to liability for crossing the tracks to access public lands and waters for the purposes of hunting, fishing and/or trapping. If liability can be lifted for recreational purposes on private property, why can't the same be done for crossing the tracks, which are also private property?

https://www.lwm-info.org/DocumentCenter/...mmunity-statute
Posted By: nimzy

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/21/18 03:39 PM

Originally Posted By: Dirty D
Please tell me why a PRIVATE landowner should have to allow trespassing on his property?














I wouldn’t consider the RR your “typical” landowner. Owns a shoestring of property with the ability to tie up thousands of acres. That’s just BS.

Deny a citizen of what’s rightfully theirs while they inconvenience me as I wait patiently to pass when they block the road. Double slap in the face.

Sorry but they should compromise and be absolved of any liability to sportsmen crossing.
Posted By: Donnersurvivor

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/21/18 03:39 PM

Originally Posted By: Dirty D
Please tell me why a PRIVATE landowner should have to allow trespassing on his property?

Just that simple.



This is why Libertarians are confined to the internet and hold no power or large sway on policy. Corporations use eminent domain to seize land or have it given to them by the states or feds, they use millions of dollars for "campaign contributions" and spend millions more on lobbyist to make sure their agenda is put to the forefront. When the Railroads went broke it was the U.S federal govt who used OUR tax dollars to step in and bail them out, now when citizens ask OUR GOVT to come to our aid and fix a simple problem the railroad and those who support this yell about "individual freedom" and "private property rights". Give me a break, this is corrupt and should be fixed.
Posted By: red mt

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/21/18 03:51 PM

Muskrat sometimes preaching is not option to take,
Sometimes you have to lead by example start at the RR, next legislators, governors office,so on etc.
We deal with the government shutting down road and trail that been open and now are getting closed .
Really nobody cares if there's grizzly in your back yard, but the Grizzley in everybodies back yard now something will get done. (Apparently they are not yet in every bodies back yard yet as they are once again listed)
That's why America is great there is time to speak then there is a time to act.
Posted By: Muskrat

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/21/18 03:58 PM

Originally Posted By: red mt
Muskrat sometimes preaching is not option to take,
Sometimes you have to lead by example start at the RR, next legislators, governors office,so on etc.
We deal with the government shutting down road and trail that been open and now are getting closed .
Really nobody cares if there's grizzly in your back yard, but the Grizzley in everybodies back yard now something will get done. (Apparently they are not yet in every bodies back yard yet as they are once again listed)
That's why America is great there is time to speak then there is a time to act.


I attended the meeting in Stoddard two years ago and spoke my piece. So did many, many others.

We thought we had it back in 2014 when the Legislature’s Joint Finance Committee okayed a provision in the 2015-17 budget to safely cross the tracks in its budget review. Unfortunately, Scott Walker vetoed it.

Now I'm waiting for the November election results to determine the next course of action. If Walker wins, well, back to the drawing board. If Evers wins, we've now got a commitment from "Team Tony" to reverse things. As posted at the beginning: As Governor, Tony will work with conservation leaders in the Legislature to address the issue. Returning reasonable access is a common sense approach.


I expected more out of Walker when he took office with regard to our natural resources and hunting, fishing and trapping opportunities. Pat Durkin neatly summarized the last eight years in his most recent column:

https://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/sto...men/1682625002/
Posted By: Canvasback2

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/21/18 04:09 PM

Originally Posted By: Zim
Who would assume liability for an "incident" with someone crossing the tracks? Normally an incident with a train is fatal. I doubt anyone on the railroad side of the issue is gonna back down on a safety issue.

Zim


If someone walks down the middle of a busy Highway and gets struck and killed by a truck going the speed limit, does the State become liable for the death , because they own the Highway ? No. If someone decides to walk down the middle of a busy highway and they get killed, it is the fault of the person that got killed ; not the driver that hit them or whoever owns the Highway. The only exception would be , is if the driver was drunk; and then I believe that they would not be completely at fault because the person that got killed should not have been walking down the middle of the road in the first place !

Here is another example:


Let say you have a State road in front of your house. Decades ago, the original State road was on your property, but they decided to move the road over so that it could run straight. The State puts the new road in and leaves the old section of road intact on your property. The catch is this:

The State NEVER officially abandoned the old section of road or the right of way on your property. The old road deteriorates over the years, and one day you trip over some exposed rebar in the concrete road.


Is the State liable for the injury suffered in the slip and fall over the deteriorated concrete road , which the State still technically owns ?


I say no.
Posted By: gryhkl

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/21/18 04:49 PM

Originally Posted By: corky
" but if we can trust hunters to walk around safely with loaded weapons, I think we can trust them to look both ways when they get to a railroad track. Not surprisingly, there's no evidence of anyone being injured trying to cross a railroad track to access public lands."

The problem with that quote is that Tony Evers does not trust ANY civilian to walk around safely with loaded weapons. F rated on 2nd Amendment.


This is one of the most sensible statements concernng the matter.
I scott walker won't budge, he is no friend of sportsmen nor the general public who own thess public lands. Run the bum out.
Posted By: tjm

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/21/18 05:06 PM

Start your campaign in the news media, attract the attention of more people. Use petitions and seek a referendum. You might get more traction by emphasizing access for non-hunting activities like nature hikes or bird watching. Appeal to the voters and the politicians will come to you.
If sportsmen want this let sportsmen fix it, socialism in the form of letting the "state" fix your problems and fiance your hunting access by use of taxes on non-hunting citizens is a negative in the long term, because in the end it is just socialism. "Big Brother babysit us"
Hunters and trappers are a tiny minority and we should not expect politicians nor corporations to make special rules for us at their expense, if we want public support we need to sell our wants to the public not to an assistant to a politician, whose job will end when the election is over.
Team Tony did not commit to anything, the comment can be taken to mean "if we can not trust these people to look both ways before crossing the track, then we can not trust these people to carry guns", I'd be careful with placing faith in such people.
I doubt that the "state" actually wants to keep you from using that public property, I think that there is not enough people wanting that access to stir up anything other than indifference on the part of the politicians and it becomes a matter of "why spend the money".
Shoot for one crossing in every 3-5 miles, or a access road trough the public land from crossing to crossing and parking areas on it.
Posted By: wallfur

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/21/18 07:06 PM

Originally Posted By: Canvasback2
Originally Posted By: Zim
Who would assume liability for an "incident" with someone crossing the tracks? Normally an incident with a train is fatal. I doubt anyone on the railroad side of the issue is gonna back down on a safety issue.

Zim


If someone walks down the middle of a busy Highway and gets struck and killed by a truck going the speed limit, does the State become liable for the death , because they own the Highway ? No. If someone decides to walk down the middle of a busy highway and they get killed, it is the fault of the person that got killed ; not the driver that hit them or whoever owns the Highway. The only exception would be , is if the driver was drunk; and then I believe that they would not be completely at fault because the person that got killed should not have been walking down the middle of the road in the first place !

Here is another example:


Let say you have a State road in front of your house. Decades ago, the original State road was on your property, but they decided to move the road over so that it could run straight. The State puts the new road in and leaves the old section of road intact on your property. The catch is this:

The State NEVER officially abandoned the old section of road or the right of way on your property. The old road deteriorates over the years, and one day you trip over some exposed rebar in the concrete road.


Is the State liable for the injury suffered in the slip and fall over the deteriorated concrete road , which the State still technically owns ?


I say no.


....state ground and highways are not private property...the railroad is. there is a difference!
Posted By: Dirty D

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/21/18 09:35 PM

Originally Posted By: Muskrat
You're absolutely right, DD. To heck with the thousands of sportsmen and women that used to access these public lands and waters to hunt, fish and trap.

No need to change, eh buddy?

It's all about PRIVATE PROPERTY RIGHTS.

Darned good thing it doesn't affect you, right? You must be president of your local Looking Out for Number One chapter.


I must be right, you can give no logical reason why you should be able to trespass on private property.
Your only justification is you used to be able to.

You claim I'm looking out for number one but its you who whats to trespass.
Your recreation is more important to you than a basic simple right that all Americans enjoy.
The right to own and control access to private property.

Again, One LOGICAL reason why you should be able to trespass on private property.
There is none, Socialism/communism is what you seek, no private property rights.
Posted By: James

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/21/18 10:49 PM

So a Republican governor sides with big business over sportsmen...

...and you're surprised?

Jim
Posted By: Catch22

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/21/18 11:42 PM

Originally Posted By: James
So a Republican governor sides with big business over sportsmen...

...and you're surprised?

Jim

He shouldn't be surprised. But if he had a D gov, he would be even more screwed.
Posted By: elkaholic

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/22/18 12:17 AM

Originally Posted By: James
So a Republican governor sides with big business over sportsmen...

...and you're surprised?

Jim


I see a republican gov that is for private property rights while a possible dem one wants to take them away.
Posted By: Muskrat

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/22/18 12:22 AM

Originally Posted By: Dirty D
. . . I must be right, you can give no logical reason why you should be able to trespass on private property.
Your only justification is you used to be able to.

You claim I'm looking out for number one but its you who whats to trespass.
Your recreation is more important to you than a basic simple right that all Americans enjoy.
The right to own and control access to private property.

Again, One LOGICAL reason why you should be able to trespass on private property.
There is none, Socialism/communism is what you seek, no private property rights.



Dang Double D, you missed a golden opportunity to share these ideas with the fellas that assembled at that meeting with the railroad honcho in Stoddard two years ago. The room must've been full of Communists that night, as sportsman after sportsman got up and vocalized their feelings about being shut out of the public lands and waters that they, their fathers, grandfathers, and in some cases their great grandfathers had accessed for so many years.

Tell you what, buddy. There comes another meeting like that, I'll give you gas money to come on down and explain to these river boys why they're all Communists in your mind. I'll even buy you the first beer afterwards at the local tavern where we can sit down and share thoughts and ideas. Yuppers, I'll even throw in bucks for your motel room that night.

What say ye?
Posted By: gryhkl

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/22/18 12:33 AM

How much do these companies pay to tresspass through the property we all own? Maybe they should be charged for every ton of goods they haul throuht these lands.
Posted By: James

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/22/18 01:34 AM

Originally Posted By: elkaholic
Originally Posted By: James
So a Republican governor sides with big business over sportsmen...

...and you're surprised?

Jim


I see a republican gov that is for private property rights while a possible dem one wants to take them away.


And your point is?

That property rights trump everything else?

In most cases the landowners whose property is bisected for railroad ROWs have no choice (short of protracted litigation with a well-heeled adversary) but to accept the railroad's offer when their property has been taken in condemnation. And they had no choice at all but to watch the RR take their land. In Alaska large tracts of public land are inaccessible due to the Alaska Railroad's prosecution of "trespassers" who just want to cross the tracks to access public fishing and hunting lands.

Government gave the RRs power to take a strip of land from previous owners. Government could make the RRs allow reasonable access to the public, and could protect the RRs from liability, if government decides it's appropriate.

But with the governor being a Republican, there's not much chance he'd side with the people against a big corporation.

Jim
Posted By: pcr2

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/22/18 01:37 AM

laugh
Posted By: Donnersurvivor

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/22/18 01:50 AM

Railroads have been heavily subsidized, they have routinely seized private land, they are allowed unusual ownership plots to accommodate their tracks and now that they are blocking others from simply crossing their tracks they are screaming "private property rights" and the libertarians are eating it up. You guys that think someone is a good person with your best interest in mind because they have a R in front of their name on a ballot are a lost cause.
Posted By: Dirt

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/22/18 02:24 AM

We will trade Walker Governors. Don't cry Jim!
Posted By: wallfur

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/22/18 02:35 AM

Originally Posted By: gryhkl
How much do these companies pay to tresspass through the property we all own? Maybe they should be charged for every ton of goods they haul throuht these lands.
...that number is in the millions paid in property taxes and leases!
Posted By: gryhkl

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/22/18 10:01 AM

So, they pay for the land and pay taxes on all the land the tracks occupy? If so, that's good. If the tracks lock the public out of land we own, the company should pay all property taxes for the land we cannot use. But there is a simple solution to allow the owners(all of us) to get to the land we own that is blocked by the tracks, but it all depends upon who in politics is beholding to the railroad. .

My bordering neighbor owns just over two hundred acres. His land is split almost down the middle by railroads tracks. If the railroad can stop him from crosing those tracks, more than eighty of his acres would have no right of way for him to use to get to that land. What about his property rights?

Posted By: Muskrat

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/22/18 11:25 AM

Originally Posted By: gryhkl
My bordering neighbor owns just over two hundred acres. His land is split almost down the middle by railroads tracks. If the railroad can stop him from crosing those tracks, more than eighty of his acres would have no right of way for him to use to get to that land. What about his property rights?


Interesting. If he wants to trespass across the tracks to access his own property, then by Dirty D's definition he must be a Communist. But wait, no, he already owns property, so can't be a Communist. But he wants to trespass across private property. So that makes him a Communist.

Help us out here Dirty D. Is he a Communist or not?

Originally Posted By: Dirty D
Again, One LOGICAL reason why you should be able to trespass on private property.
There is none, Socialism/communism is what you seek, no private property rights.
Posted By: beeman

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/22/18 12:11 PM

I have a question.
When Railroad tracks cross a public road are cars, trucks, people who cross these guilty of trespassing or does the Railroad own the roadway and give the state or county a variance to put a road across their railroad tracks?
Posted By: 330-Trapper

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/22/18 01:04 PM

It's only because Litigation has taken the place of Common sense. Or litigation results have gone against common sense.
Posted By: gryhkl

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/22/18 02:08 PM

Originally Posted By: 330-Trapper
It's only because Litigation has taken the place of Common sense. Or litigation results have gone against common sense.


You have given a perfect explanation for so many of the problems that crop up so often.
Posted By: wallfur

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/22/18 02:21 PM

Originally Posted By: gryhkl
So, they pay for the land and pay taxes on all the land the tracks occupy? If so, that's good. If the tracks lock the public out of land we own, the company should pay all property taxes for the land we cannot use. But there is a simple solution to allow the owners(all of us) to get to the land we own that is blocked by the tracks, but it all depends upon who in politics is beholding to the railroad. .

My bordering neighbor owns just over two hundred acres. His land is split almost down the middle by railroads tracks. If the railroad can stop him from crosing those tracks, more than eighty of his acres would have no right of way for him to use to get to that land. What about his property rights?

......if he owned (or if that land has always been 1 owner parcel) the land before the railroad went threw they have to furnished a crossing and maintain it...furthermore the railroad is responisable for ALL the fences to!!!is the railroad trying to block him now? or you just whining?
Posted By: wallfur

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/22/18 02:27 PM

Originally Posted By: beeman
I have a question.
When Railroad tracks cross a public road are cars, trucks, people who cross these guilty of trespassing or does the Railroad own the roadway and give the state or county a variance to put a road across their railroad tracks?

.....no it is a PUBLIC crossing....normally the railroad owns and maintains the crossing 4 feet from the nearest rail.
Posted By: gryhkl

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/22/18 05:07 PM

Originally Posted By: wallfur
Originally Posted By: gryhkl
So, they pay for the land and pay taxes on all the land the tracks occupy? If so, that's good. If the tracks lock the public out of land we own, the company should pay all property taxes for the land we cannot use. But there is a simple solution to allow the owners(all of us) to get to the land we own that is blocked by the tracks, but it all depends upon who in politics is beholding to the railroad. .

My bordering neighbor owns just over two hundred acres. His land is split almost down the middle by railroads tracks. If the railroad can stop him from crosing those tracks, more than eighty of his acres would have no right of way for him to use to get to that land. What about his property rights?

......if he owned (or if that land has always been 1 owner parcel) the land before the railroad went threw they have to furnished a crossing and maintain it...furthermore the railroad is responisable for ALL the fences to!!!is the railroad trying to block him now? or you just whining?


They are not blocking him. I said "IF they could." But the way some are responding it sounds as if they COULD. If they cannot block his crossing be cause he is the current land owner, the same should be true for those of us who own the PUBLIC lands that any track passes through.
Posted By: wallfur

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/22/18 05:51 PM

you need to distinguish the difference between private land and PUBLIC land......there is a difference! and so are the laws! if someone buys ground on both sides of the railroad tracks and there is no previous right of way easement over the tracks you will have to pay for a crossing to be put in and maintaned .....but there is no guarantee that they will. and there not obligated by law to do so. do you homework before you buy.
Posted By: wallfur

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/22/18 06:08 PM

how do you gain access to other public land surrounded by private property other than railroad???????? ...you don't without landowners permission!
Posted By: Dirt

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/22/18 06:12 PM

Originally Posted By: wallfur
how do you gain access to other public land surrounded by private property other than railroad???????? ...you don't without landowners permission!


I trespass.
Posted By: wallfur

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/22/18 06:24 PM

why didn't I think of that! grin
Posted By: Beavertrapper24

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/22/18 07:25 PM

Originally Posted By: Dirty D
Please tell me why a PRIVATE landowner should have to allow trespassing on his property?

Just that simple.

It does not matter that he used to allow it, it doesn't matter that there is public lands on the other side, it does not matter if the State or Fed Gov't will dissolve the landowner of liability claims, it does not matter how the landowner acquired the land.

Once the land is owned by a Private entity that entity has rights, one of which is to control who goes on his property.

Of course if there was once a legal document (easement) allowing passage/use that would be different.
Absent that the public does not have a right to trespass.

Just that simple.

I get it, you used to get away with it cause the RR looked the other way or didn't care for years, even decades.
But now he does.

Its part of the reason America is better than a lot of countries, PRIVATE PROPERTY RIGHTS.



I'm agreeing with Dirty D on this one if it's PRIVATE property, you have no right to trespass for any reason what so ever. If you want to then you have to go through the easement process that's the way it is, and you must protect the rights of the landowner because once you start to loose them it's very hard to get them back. Good example my folks have a river flowing through our property, when they bought the farm the seller said the river was public property. We used to get only a few canoers through every summer and that was fine, but now it has gotten to the point that I'm kicking off of our property a dozen plus people every weekend damaging our property so I did some looking and found out the river is not public property it is private and we own and pay taxes on it! I took this info to my local LEOS and was told there is nothing they can due about the trespassing because so many people just don't know or understand the law and it's been going on for so long that it will be almost imposable to stop it. I'm all for making more public access to public lands but you have to do it thought working with the land owners and easements not by disregarding private property rights. ok rant over.
Posted By: Muskrat

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/22/18 07:25 PM

Originally Posted By: Dirt
Originally Posted By: wallfur
how do you gain access to other public land surrounded by private property other than railroad???????? ...you don't without landowners permission!


I trespass.


Dirt's a Communist?
Posted By: Dirt

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/22/18 08:07 PM

Originally Posted By: Muskrat
Originally Posted By: Dirt
how do you gain access to other public land surrounded by private property other than railroad???????? ...you don't without landowners permission!

I trespass.


Dirt's a Communist?


Only when I'm in Wisconsin. I try to blend in. smile

P.S. For all the lawyers, you don't allow trespassing. Trespassing is entering property without permission. You can't give someone permission to trespass. Carry on!
Posted By: Dirt

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/22/18 09:02 PM

However, maybe Jim can lawyer up on this one. If the railroad tells you not to cross the tracks and doesn't enforce it, and you do cross the tracks, does that not relieve them of liability in case you get hurt on their property? Kind of a Wink! Wink! deal.

Then again Jim left out the fact that the Alaska Railroad is owned by the State of Alaska. So,I guess you could blame the State of Alaska for preventing Jim from accessing his public land. smile
Posted By: James

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/23/18 02:35 AM

"If the railroad tells you not to cross the tracks and doesn't enforce it, and you do, does that not relieve them of liability in case you get hurt on their property?"

Why would you want to enforce the RR's trespassing policies for them? lol

Under AK law, a landowner does owe a duty of reasonable care that extends even to trespassers. If an owner pursues hazardous activities on his land, and doesn't use reasonable care to protect others, he might be liable. If the plaintiff can convince a jury to award damages.

But the legislature could grant the RR at least partial immunity from lawsuits.

Jim
Posted By: Dirt

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/23/18 03:43 AM

I done some internut research Jim and it seems unlikely that the railroad would get sued if they put up some liability signs at these crossings. Stuff like "Danger No trespassing." Then somebody would actually have to get hurt, which is highly unlikely. I saw nothing that the railroad has to police this. You were warned and now you assume the liability for your own actions. Guys can go fishing and the railroad can maintain their property rights. Win,Win. Well except for the lawyers.

However in the tin foil area BNSF is Buffet's railroad and he was Obama's buddy and probably ain't a Walker fan.
Posted By: mutt

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/23/18 04:38 AM

Form an organization dedicated enough to get it changed. If your will is stronger they will cave.

Tactics to include:
* rent a dozer and create a safe crossing("oops, wrong address")
* car trouble at a crossing 10 min before the train is scheduled (every day)
* dump truck load of gravel on the tracks
* protests at the crossings
* protests at the companies that use that rail company

Most are likely to end up with fines or jail, but maybe the railroad will give in.

I'm on your side with this. Railroad is no differant than a transmission line. If the railroad cant make reasonable ways for people to cross its continuous barricade it's time to show them where to stick it.
Posted By: wallfur

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/23/18 02:42 PM

mutt you go first...I will follow you.lol...but it might be cheaper to pay for a crossing! lol
Posted By: tlguy

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/23/18 02:59 PM

Sure would be a shame if the railcars started a fire in that area in the spring and the wildfire crews couldn't get there to put it out.
Posted By: Dirt

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/23/18 03:09 PM

I like violence as much as the next guy, but probably you would get a better reaction with some protest signs at a crossing, having your sad children holding fishing poles and whining about how the children are being robbed of their heritage. Set this up with the local television station. 20 whiners should be enough just narrow the camera view so viewers don't know how few you are.

Big companies hate bad press.
Posted By: tjm

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/23/18 05:05 PM

Originally Posted By: Dirt

P.S. For all the lawyers, you don't allow trespassing. Trespassing is entering property without permission. You can't give someone permission to trespass. Carry on!


All across the the NW mountain states they have "trespass fees", so in some states I guess you can rent some one permission to trespass. I've always thought trespass was a crime, but ...
Posted By: pcr2

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/23/18 05:16 PM

just heard a rumor they are putting tracks at the mexican border to stop the herd of immigrants. grin
Posted By: wallfur

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 10/23/18 05:29 PM

great news!we can also use the freight trains to haul them free cell phones ..food stamps ..and voting packets!
Posted By: WIMarshRAT

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/09/20 01:22 PM

Hey Muskrat, you following.....

https://www.jsonline.com/story/spor...change-railroad-crossing-law/4692862002/
Posted By: hippie

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/09/20 01:31 PM

Look who led the effort, the irony.
Posted By: Muskrat

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/09/20 01:40 PM

Yuppers, been in the works for awhile now. Let's hope they can work together and fix the problem.
Posted By: Pike River

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/09/20 01:40 PM

This isn't really a liberal vs conservative issue.

Its a local vs the rest of the state and lobbiest issue.

Tho writers and sponsors are from the region affected.

The rest of the state doesn't care.
Posted By: Hodagtrapper

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/09/20 01:41 PM

Glad to see that this issue is back in the news and it is the hope of many Wisconsinites that the law is changed to benefit the sportsman for once!

Chris
Posted By: Macthediver

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/09/20 01:44 PM

I still believe some of the reason this no crossing the tracks came about. Was in retaliation to all the greenie type people here along the river complaining about the oil trains..Maybe now that they have quit their campaign to stop the trains.. Them politicians can get us back across the tracks..
I did see a guy go across the other day looked to be going trapping..Where he was parked is a good chance that rail road Dick will check him. He might have crossed at the road grade by where he was parked.. Sled tracks in snow kinda din't look that way??

Mac
Posted By: Muskrat

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/09/20 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by Macthediver
I still believe some of the reason this no crossing the tracks came about. Was in retaliation to all the greenie type people here along the river complaining about the oil trains..Maybe now that they have quit their campaign to stop the trains.. Them politicians can get us back across the tracks..
I did see a guy go across the other day looked to be going trapping..Where he was parked is a good chance that rail road Dick will check him. He might have crossed at the road grade by where he was parked.. Sled tracks in snow kinda din't look that way??

Mac


I've had no issues.

Originally Posted by Pike River
This isn't really a liberal vs conservative issue.

Its a local vs the rest of the state and lobbiest issue.

Tho writers and sponsors are from the region affected.

The rest of the state doesn't care.


Same goes for the members on here who give us all sorts of reasons why we shouldn't be accessing public lands and waters by crossing the tracks like we've done all our lives. They really don't care and it doesn't affect them directly.
Posted By: Muskrat

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/09/20 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by hippie
Look who led the effort, the irony.


Maybe common sense of this issue is beginning to sprout in Wisconsin. I sure don't see it coming from the governor's office, either past or present.
Posted By: Moosetrot

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/09/20 02:40 PM

Well, Muskrat, maybe things like our trip to Stoddard are starting to pay off.

Moosetrot
Posted By: corky

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/09/20 02:52 PM

I just contacted Sen. Tiffany and Rep. Swearingen from this area asking them to cosponsor LRB 5428. I hope others do the same with their legislators whether you have a personal interest or not. Legislators need to know that sportsmen care about these types of issues.
Posted By: Hodagtrapper

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/09/20 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by corky
I just contacted Sen. Tiffany and Rep. Swearingen from this area asking them to cosponsor LRB 5428. I hope others do the same with their legislators whether you have a personal interest or not. Legislators need to know that sportsmen care about these types of issues.


I will do the same thing today as well!

Chris
Posted By: The Beav

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/09/20 03:47 PM

When we were kids the first place we went was to the tracks to hunt rabbits and pheasants and no one gave a dam.
Posted By: Bruce T

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/09/20 03:48 PM

You just look bother ways before crossing.
Posted By: Canvasback2

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/09/20 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by Dirty D
Please tell me why a PRIVATE landowner should have to allow trespassing on his property?

Just that simple.

It does not matter that he used to allow it, it doesn't matter that there is public lands on the other side, it does not matter if the State or Fed Gov't will dissolve the landowner of liability claims, it does not matter how the landowner acquired the land.

Once the land is owned by a Private entity that entity has rights, one of which is to control who goes on his property.

Of course if there was once a legal document (easement) allowing passage/use that would be different.
Absent that the public does not have a right to trespass.

Just that simple.




I got a LOT to say about this !!!!

Let 's say you own 500 acres of land. 200 Acres of Farmland on one side of the Railroad tracks that you can access by the State Road. The other 300 acres on the other side of the Railroad tracks is all Hardwood Forest. There is NO access to the 300 Acres of Woods, other than to cross the Railroad tracks. The land has been farmland and woods since BEFORE the Railroad ran their tracks through the land. OVER 100 years!!! The Railroad changed ownership many times , over the years. There NEVER was agreement to allow crossing of the railroad tracks. The Railroad back then , just TOOK the land !! Railroad crossings were put in over the years . The Railroad Companies all through the years, never complained when the property owners crossed the tracks, to access THEIR LAND !! on the other side of the tracks !!


Then , not too many years ago, the Railroad tracks changed hands , and the new owners park their rail cars all along the railroad tracks; during the Fall and Winter. They INTENTIONALLY are blocking access to the private property on the other side of the Railroad tracks. Access for which there is no other way into those properties.

As for an Easement to get onto their lands, the Railroad has REFUSED to grant ANY EASEMENTS !!

So, what would you do in that type of situation?? Pay taxes on land you can't use , because the Railroad won't let you access YOUR property? Or, don't pay the taxes, and let it go into Tax Foreclosure, but no one will buy it , because the Railroad won't grant access to the land??

Posted By: Canvasback2

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/09/20 05:20 PM

Another thing....


If the property goes up for Tax Auction, and the Railroad REFUSES to grant any Easements to the new Owner, does the current owner still retain title to the property that went up for auction, because it is unsellable AND... is that owner still responsible for paying property taxes on land that he cannot use and cannot have access to ????
Posted By: Macthediver

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/09/20 07:30 PM

I wonder if a guy built some kinda bridge over the tracks where you didn't have to go on the rail road right away to construct it. Bet the rail road has a way of stopping something like that too?? I'm just being fictional of course probably more money than anyone but the rail road could afford to try it. We do have one million something dollar bike bridge over the rail yard here though.. Money well spent right..

Canvasback2

You need someone like DirtyD to buy you a helicopter then hope there is a open enough area to land it. With the miles of tracks abutting both private and public land here where I live. It's almost the equivalent of say the county or state painting a line around someones personal yard. Then saying figure out some other way how to get into your house.. You can't cross that line.

Mac
Posted By: Boco

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/09/20 09:06 PM

Just pole vault across.
Posted By: Bruce T

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/09/20 09:59 PM

Originally Posted by Boco
Just pole vault across.

laugh
Posted By: Moosetrot

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/11/20 01:21 PM

TTT for any Wisconsin folks.

Moosetrot
Posted By: MJM

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/11/20 01:55 PM

Do all the road crossings have arms in WI? If you can't walk across, how can you drive across without a arm blocking traffic when a train is coming?
Posted By: RdFx

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/11/20 05:08 PM

ttt
Posted By: corky

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/11/20 05:56 PM

Here is Rep. Swearingen's response. More pressure is going to be needed to get this done. Take the time to contact your Rep. and Sen. It matters.


Rep.Swearingen
11:50 AM (1 minute ago)
to me

Hi Scott,



Thank you for contacting my office with your thoughts regarding LRB 5428 related to pedestrians crossing railroads.



I am aware that LRB 5428 was recently circulating for co-sponsorship, however it is my understanding that the bill has not yet received an official bill number or been referred to a committee in the Assembly. As we are quickly approaching the end of session, it remains to be seen if the legislation will receive enough traction to move through the entire legislative process.



Thanks again for reaching out. Have a good week.



Rob
Posted By: Dirty D

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/11/20 08:04 PM

Anybody that buys property that is divided by anothers property is STUPID if they do not get an easement thru.
I have purchased landlocked property, BUT before I purchased I got Easements from ALL owners that I needed to to get access.

So I have no compassion for someone in your scenario.

Lets say the property was in the family for many years without any easement. Lets say at some point the property dividing the land was sold to someone else who no longer allows easement.
Again I say too bad, so sad. IF the land owners had half a brain they would of gotten a legal easement years ago when the owner of the RR had no issue with the trespassing.
Then all new owners would be legally binded by the easement.


There are legal rules that we all live by. These rules are what makes a civilized society.



I don't care what the RR did in the past. Its of no relevance to whats they decide to do today.
They are private property owners who have rights.
Just cause you want to trespass for your own enjoyment is no reason to violate this right that all private property owners enjoy.



A liberal/lefty always complains about feelings, but no logical or legal arguments.
Posted By: Dirty D

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/11/20 08:06 PM

Originally Posted by MJM
Do all the road crossings have arms in WI? If you can't walk across, how can you drive across without a arm blocking traffic when a train is coming?


These are not roadways crossing the tracks.
They are "informal" foot paths for the most part.

That incidentally cross private property.
Posted By: Dirty D

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/11/20 08:14 PM

Originally Posted by Macthediver


You need someone like DirtyD to buy you a helicopter then hope there is a open enough area to land it. With the miles of tracks abutting both private and public land here where I live. It's almost the equivalent of say the county or state painting a line around someones personal yard. Then saying figure out some other way how to get into your house.. You can't cross that line.

Mac




Not at all like what your suggesting.

A better analogy would be your land that your house is landlocked.
Yet your neighbor always allowed you to cross his land to get to your place.
No public road or anything just a informal gravel driveway that crosses his property.
Well then your stupid son-in-law sues him cause he drives off the driveway and wrecks his car.
The new owner then says, "screw this" you can't drive/walk on his property. He does want any more law suits from your wacky family/relations and he charges you for trespassing on his land to get to your house.
Its with in his rights to do so.
Posted By: MJM

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/11/20 08:19 PM

Originally Posted by Dirty D
Originally Posted by MJM
Do all the road crossings have arms in WI? If you can't walk across, how can you drive across without a arm blocking traffic when a train is coming?
These are not roadways crossing the tracks.
They are "informal" foot paths for the most part.
That incidentally cross private property.

I understand that. But I guess you missed the point. You can drive across on a dirt road with no protection, but you can not walk across?
Posted By: Donnersurvivor

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/11/20 09:43 PM

Originally Posted by Dirty D
There are legal rules that we all live by. These rules are what makes a civilized society.

I don't care what the RR did in the past. Its of no relevance to whats they decide to do today.
They are private property owners who have rights.
Just cause you want to trespass for your own enjoyment is no reason to violate this right that all private property owners enjoy.

A liberal/lefty always complains about feelings, but no logical or legal arguments.



We live in a culture that values freedom and laws because those things benefit everyone in society. When you start using the laws as they were never intended, as a weapon there will be backlash. No one foreseen railroads denying access when they were given odd shaped chunks of land against the norms to accommodate their tracks. Many states allow traditional easements to stand weather they were recorded or not, that should obviously be the case.

You complain about Liberal/lefties, if you want some Libertarian paradise go try Somalia or the Congo.
Posted By: Hodagtrapper

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/11/20 09:58 PM

Originally Posted by corky
Here is Rep. Swearingen's response. More pressure is going to be needed to get this done. Take the time to contact your Rep. and Sen. It matters.


Rep.Swearingen
11:50 AM (1 minute ago)
to me

Hi Scott,



Thank you for contacting my office with your thoughts regarding LRB 5428 related to pedestrians crossing railroads.



I am aware that LRB 5428 was recently circulating for co-sponsorship, however it is my understanding that the bill has not yet received an official bill number or been referred to a committee in the Assembly. As we are quickly approaching the end of session, it remains to be seen if the legislation will receive enough traction to move through the entire legislative process.



Thanks again for reaching out. Have a good week.



Rob




I received the same response today from Rep. Swearingen. Have not heard from Senator Tiffany as of yet.

Chris
Posted By: ky_coyote_hunter

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/11/20 10:27 PM

Don't they make those portable oxy/acetylene cutting torches? grin
Posted By: bankrunner

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/11/20 10:54 PM

Originally Posted by ky_coyote_hunter
Don't they make those portable oxy/acetylene cutting torches? grin



grin
Posted By: Woodsloafer72

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/11/20 11:09 PM

Originally Posted by Dirty D
Anybody that buys property that is divided by anothers property is STUPID if they do not get an easement thru.
I have purchased landlocked property, BUT before I purchased I got Easements from ALL owners that I needed to to get access.

So I have no compassion for someone in your scenario.

Lets say the property was in the family for many years without any easement. Lets say at some point the property dividing the land was sold to someone else who no longer allows easement.
Again I say too bad, so sad. IF the land owners had half a brain they would of gotten a legal easement years ago when the owner of the RR had no issue with the trespassing.
Then all new owners would be legally binded by the easement.


There are legal rules that we all live by. These rules are what makes a civilized society.



I don't care what the RR did in the past. Its of no relevance to whats they decide to do today.
They are private property owners who have rights.
Just cause you want to trespass for your own enjoyment is no reason to violate this right that all private property owners enjoy.



A liberal/lefty always complains about feelings, but no logical or legal arguments.


One thing I think you are failing to take into account is that the RR went where THEY wanted to. If you didn't want them to cut through your property it would be seized under eminent domain and sold to the RR. No agreement on your part. A lot different than voluntarily selling a piece of property.
Posted By: ApocalypticGoatH

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/11/20 11:15 PM

Canvasback2,

Who put in the crossings? Do the railroad maps show the crossings and does the original railroad deed reference the map. Was the railroad fence constructed with an opening at the crossing?

The railroad will protect it's interests. It's up to the abutting landowner to protect his and sometimes that means hiring a lawyer.
Posted By: Sprung & Rusty

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/11/20 11:21 PM

Originally Posted by Donnersurvivor
Originally Posted by Dirty D
There are legal rules that we all live by. These rules are what makes a civilized society.

I don't care what the RR did in the past. Its of no relevance to whats they decide to do today.
They are private property owners who have rights.
Just cause you want to trespass for your own enjoyment is no reason to violate this right that all private property owners enjoy.

A liberal/lefty always complains about feelings, but no logical or legal arguments.



We live in a culture that values freedom and laws because those things benefit everyone in society. When you start using the laws as they were never intended, as a weapon there will be backlash. No one foreseen railroads denying access when they were given odd shaped chunks of land against the norms to accommodate their tracks. Many states allow traditional easements to stand weather they were recorded or not, that should obviously be the case.

You complain about Liberal/lefties, if you want some Libertarian paradise go try Somalia or the Congo.


You don't seem to know the difference between a liberal and libertarian.
Posted By: Boco

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/11/20 11:30 PM

Liberal,Libertarian,Librarian-whats the diff.
Posted By: ApocalypticGoatH

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/11/20 11:51 PM

Liberals like to tell others how to live. Libertarians just want to be left alone. Librarians want to snuggle up with their pets and read a good book.
Posted By: Hornytoad1

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/11/20 11:54 PM

Why is it so hard to cross train tracks at a crossing. You can also cross under the track if a culvert is available. Both of these methods are what the BNSF Special agent (RR cop) has told me personally. You just can cross where there ISN'T a crossing. It dosen't need gates or flashing lights just ties layed for foot or vehicle traffic to cross.
Posted By: Donnersurvivor

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/12/20 12:41 AM

In this case the Libertarian argument is that govt cant even solve a simple issue such as crossing train tracks because it interferes with private property rights which are absolute. In the Libertarian mindset it is fine for the train company to disallow traditional access and gain control over private and public lands by default.
Posted By: Dirt

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/12/20 12:59 AM

A libertarian might notice that much of this public land can be accessed via the public river.
Posted By: Canvasback2

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/12/20 01:07 AM

Originally Posted by Dirty D
Anybody that buys property that is divided by anothers property is STUPID if they do not get an easement thru.
I have purchased landlocked property, BUT before I purchased I got Easements from ALL owners that I needed to to get access.

So I have no compassion for someone in your scenario.

Lets say the property was in the family for many years without any easement. Lets say at some point the property dividing the land was sold to someone else who no longer allows easement.
Again I say too bad, so sad. IF the land owners had half a brain they would of gotten a legal easement years ago when the owner of the RR had no issue with the trespassing.
Then all new owners would be legally binded by the easement.


There are legal rules that we all live by. These rules are what makes a civilized society.



I don't care what the RR did in the past. Its of no relevance to whats they decide to do today.
They are private property owners who have rights.
Just cause you want to trespass for your own enjoyment is no reason to violate this right that all private property owners enjoy.



A liberal/lefty always complains about feelings, but no logical or legal arguments.



There is the heart of the matter. None of the preceding Railroads or the current Railroad would ever grant an easement to any of the property owners.

As for who put in the crossings , those are old farm crossings put in over 100 years ago. The only fences along the railroad tracks, are old barbed wire farm fences put in by the Farmers, decades ago
Posted By: JCBearss

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/12/20 01:14 AM

Originally Posted by Boco
Liberal,Libertarian,Librarian-whats the diff.

Wow HUGE difference.
Posted By: ApocalypticGoatH

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/12/20 01:35 AM

Canvasback2,

Look up New York State laws about prescriptive easements and easements of necessity which can be found on the internet. If you are serious about determining what you legal rights are you will hire an attorney.

Good luck.
Posted By: Dirty D

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/12/20 03:23 AM

Originally Posted by Woodsloafer72



One thing I think you are failing to take into account is that the RR went where THEY wanted to. If you didn't want them to cut through your property it would be seized under eminent domain and sold to the RR. No agreement on your part. A lot different than voluntarily selling a piece of property.


When the railroads, or the Gov't seizes property for eminant domain they do pay for it.
And when they go thru the middle of someone property they give access so the landowner can access his property on the other side.
Posted By: Dirty D

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/12/20 03:27 AM

Originally Posted by Canvasback2


There is the heart of the matter. None of the preceding Railroads or the current Railroad would ever grant an easement to any of the property owners.

As for who put in the crossings , those are old farm crossings put in over 100 years ago. The only fences along the railroad tracks, are old barbed wire farm fences put in by the Farmers, decades ago


These are not farmers lanes with fences. For the most part they are foot paths that cross the RR at convenient spot usually across from public parking spot. Sometimes across from a private place that allows parking say a Bar or Sport Shop.

The train tracks pretty much follow the road. There is the river, sloughs, swamps and Islands on the west side of things, the land that is being prevented access to across the RR, the RR tracks, The public road and then more land to the east.
Pretty much all the land to the west of the tracks is wild land. Not much of it in a east to west distance.

No signs, No place to drive a truck or car, no flashing lights or barriers that activate when a train is coming.

Another point that is not being mentioned here is that this land is not inaccessible without crossing the tracks. It is accessible by traveling up or across the river from other access points.
These points maybe greater distances than the tracks but they are there.
The tracks are the easiest access so they are the ones that are being fought over.
Posted By: Canvasback2

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/12/20 03:39 AM

2.1 miles of properties along the length of the railroad tracks are blocked from Fall till Spring. If the property owners want to tap the Maple trees, they can't do it, because the Railroad does not consider that a good enough reason to cross the railroad tracks. What gets me, is 2 things...

1. This seems to have started around when the assessments went up and I think there was some dispute over the value of the railroad property.

2. When I looked on the Google aerial map of the railroad tracks, the nearest railyard is over 50 miles to the South. There is plenty of space for them to park their railcars there. Yet, they choose to park along a siding in a little town. The property owners affected by the railroad , complained to the Town, & the Town buckled under , and did nothing.
Posted By: Dirty D

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/12/20 03:40 AM

Originally Posted by Hornytoad1
Why is it so hard to cross train tracks at a crossing. You can also cross under the track if a culvert is available. Both of these methods are what the BNSF Special agent (RR cop) has told me personally. You just can cross where there ISN'T a crossing. It dosen't need gates or flashing lights just ties layed for foot or vehicle traffic to cross.


Its hard to cross at train crossings cause they are not as common as the foot paths that were previously used and are at question.

To say there is NO access without crossing the private property of the RR is a lie.
There are ways to get to the other side but they require more travel/work.
Thats the rub here.

The people who feel they should be allowed to trespass are used to the easiest way.
When that way is taken away they want it back.

Personally I'd be happy having the area more inaccessible, it means less people will put forth the effort. So the fewer people the happier I'll be.
Posted By: coonman220

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/12/20 03:46 AM

Sucks got access it by going across tracks. A couple row locations I trap in water by culverts are very close railroad, definately don't go on railroad an do nothing, get busted trespassing , yesrs ago they weren't so strict on rail road , used walk up tracks an hunt
Posted By: tlguy

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/12/20 03:48 AM

Originally Posted by Dirty D


Personally I'd be happy having the area more inaccessible, it means less people will put forth the effort. So the fewer people the happier I'll be.


There it is. In case Dirty D tries to hide his shame and delete his comment.
Posted By: Dirty D

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/12/20 04:09 AM

Originally Posted by tlguy
Originally Posted by Dirty D


Personally I'd be happy having the area more inaccessible, it means less people will put forth the effort. So the fewer people the happier I'll be.


There it is. In case Dirty D tries to hide his shame and delete his comment.


Not going to try.
I have no problem with my comment.

I used to Fish a private lake surrounded by Private property.
If you snuck in on land you'd get caught and tossed out.
But if floated down the 1 1/2 mile long small creek in a canoe there was nothing they could do.
Of course it was a lot more work. ALOT MORE.
Sometimes the best things in life require more work.
Posted By: Moosetrot

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/12/20 07:29 AM



When the railroads, or the Gov't seizes property for eminant domain they do pay for it.
And when they go thru the middle of someone property they give access so the landowner can access his property on the other side.
[/quote]


And what if the landowners are the citizens of the particular State and/or United States?

Moosetrot
Posted By: Moosetrot

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/12/20 07:37 AM

I think you hit the nail on the head, tlguy!

Moosetrot
Posted By: Muskrat

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/12/20 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by tlguy
Originally Posted by Dirty D


Personally I'd be happy having the area more inaccessible, it means less people will put forth the effort. So the fewer people the happier I'll be.


There it is. In case Dirty D tries to hide his shame and delete his comment.


Indeed. Took awhile for his agenda to be revealed. Probably detests trapper education too. Can't have all these educated trappers taking MY fur. What a shame.

Posted By: The Beav

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/12/20 02:49 PM

Sounds like a bunch of old women on here worrying about crossing the freaking tracks. Grow a set and cross the tracks and be done with It.

I can just see old Muskrat sitting on his pack basket along the tracks and saying well should I or shouldn't I. May be I should call my buddy Tony and see If It's Ok.
Heck we drive right down the tracks on our wheelers to get from point A to point B haven't been caught yet. And could care less.
Get er done.
Posted By: hippie

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/12/20 03:00 PM

Don't stop with the railroad, throw crossing people's vacation homes in that ring a lake. Why should they keep you from the lake?
Posted By: Boco

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/12/20 03:12 PM

Dirty D is correct-most people are lazy and wont put in the effort if access is difficult.Those that put in the effort are rewarded with better hunting and trapping.I agree.
Posted By: Muskrat

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/12/20 03:18 PM

Originally Posted by hippie
Don't stop with the railroad, throw crossing people's vacation homes in that ring a lake. Why should they keep you from the lake?


Originally Posted by Boco
Dirty D is correct-most people are lazy and wont put in the effort if access is difficult.Those that put in the effort are rewarded with better hunting and trapping.I agree.


Either clueless or couldn't care less.
Posted By: Boco

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/12/20 03:36 PM

What I posted is a fact jack.
Posted By: Muskrat

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/12/20 03:54 PM

Originally Posted by Boco
What I posted is a fact jack.


Both
Posted By: Dirt

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/12/20 04:51 PM

Originally Posted by The Beav
When we were kids the first place we went was to the tracks to hunt rabbits and pheasants and no one gave a dam.


How is the hunting and trapping on all those rail grades the State turned into trails?
Posted By: ApocalypticGoatH

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/12/20 05:38 PM

I'm sure Bernie would be willing to help you if elected. He believes the right of the majority is greater than individual rights.
Posted By: Muskrat

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/12/20 05:45 PM

Originally Posted by gray dog
I'm sure Bernie would be willing to help you if elected. He believes the right of the majority is greater than individual rights.


another clueless troll on the subject
Posted By: ApocalypticGoatH

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/12/20 06:01 PM


Good luck.
Posted By: Muskrat

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/12/20 06:52 PM

For those of you have no personal gain in this matter if the bipartisan legislature does restore the right for trappers, hunters and anglers to cross railroad tracks to access public lands and waters, let me explain a miniversion of what's happening statewide with the situation.

Before I do, I must admit I'm a bit taken aback by the sentiments expressed by trappers on this forum who have absolutely no dog in the fight, yet feel the need to explain to us trappers who have been excluded from these areas why we shouldn't be able to access these areas. Interesting isn't it, we don't read one post here from any of the fellas that have had these access points taken away on why we shouldn't be able to cross the tracks to access these areas. It's always someone who probably never has and never will attempt to access these areas for the purpose of trapping, hunting, and/or fishing. King George III would have loved you guys back in the day.

A stretch of my winter trapline is only accessible by walking across the tracks at several points off a major highway. This stretch of highway runs for eleven miles. On both ends of this eleven mile stretch, there is no way to access the 11-mile area by walking around the end and walking towards the middle, say five miles plus from each direction. There is no public access across the tracks. The tracks continue west and continue east, without a public crossing. So from the north, there is no access.

From the south side of this 11-mile stretch, there is the Lower Wisconsin River. It freezes up when it gets real cold, and opens back up when it gets into the 20s, if it hasn't been below zero for too long prior. It's shallow, and there is good current. You wouldn't want to try walking across it. The boat landings are not maintained during the winter. Some have frozen bays and/or snow on the ramps. If you can dump the boat into the river when there is chunk ice flowing downstream, you've got the bump and grind of cutting across the river through the ice chunks. When you land on the opposite bank, you've got quite a bit of marsh to walk through to access the areas just south of the tracks paralleling the highway. Some of it is frozen, some of it isn't. And when it gets real cold, you would have to pull traps as you couldn't cut across the river to get to the places where you still have another mile or so to walk through the marsh to get to the areas just south of the tracks.

So what we have here is this situation: there is no access from the north side of the river. There is limited access from the south side of the river if the weather is mild. Nobody runs a boat across this section of the Lower Wisconsin River in the winter. So there literally is no access.

Trapping Spot A is a five-minute walk from the truck across the tracks to the slough. The same spot is, weather permitting, a twenty to thirty-minute run up or down the river from a boat landing that may or may not be accessible, then a half mile jaunt through the bottoms, which might take the average fella what . . . ten to fifteen minutes to walk, or Boco five minutes.

Interesting when I read a thread about public lands being closed off to the public by more gates and fences here, there is usually an outcry on how we're losing access to "our" lands and waters. But when the railroad keeps us out of public lands and waters, some of you must hear a calling to tell us just how wrong we are and we should simply take it in the shorts and give up on the issue.

Well, I ain't giving up, I'm still checking sets by walking across the tracks, and if a bipartisan push to restore our rights to cross the tracks causes you to get loose in the bowels 'cause it's a BIPARTISAN campaign, well then diaper up me buckos.
Posted By: Dirt

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/12/20 07:23 PM

The river stuff sounds real familiar. Happens every year. Might have to modify the daily check requirements. smile
Posted By: WIMarshRAT

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/12/20 07:29 PM

Most guys running the river are not running daily checks so how does that help?

The North American Model of Wildlife Conservation needs a stable or growing population of users to make it work and yet we have folks trying to limit participation. Access is number one reason keeping more folks from joining the ranks. The state spends millions each year trying to open up access and could do millions of acres with the stroke of the pen. Folks need to hold their elected officials accountable. Reminder for those folks not paying attention, we do have elections coming up. Find a representative in your area and if they are willing to support the issues, offer to help him/her. It will come in handy next legislative session.


Posted By: Boco

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/12/20 07:36 PM

Hope the highway doesnt close down-however would you be able to trap then?
Posted By: hippie

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/12/20 07:57 PM

Originally Posted by Muskrat
For those of you have no personal gain in this matter if the bipartisan legislature does restore the right for trappers, hunters and anglers to cross railroad tracks to access public lands and waters, let me explain a miniversion of what's happening statewide with the situation.

Before I do, I must admit I'm a bit taken aback by the sentiments expressed by trappers on this forum who have absolutely no dog in the fight, yet feel the need to explain to us trappers who have been excluded from these areas why we shouldn't be able to access these areas. Interesting isn't it, we don't read one post here from any of the fellas that have had these access points taken away on why we shouldn't be able to cross the tracks to access these areas. It's always someone who probably never has and never will attempt to access these areas for the purpose of trapping, hunting, and/or fishing. King George III would have loved you guys back in the day.

A stretch of my winter trapline is only accessible by walking across the tracks at several points off a major highway. This stretch of highway runs for eleven miles. On both ends of this eleven mile stretch, there is no way to access the 11-mile area by walking around the end and walking towards the middle, say five miles plus from each direction. There is no public access across the tracks. The tracks continue west and continue east, without a public crossing. So from the north, there is no access.

From the south side of this 11-mile stretch, there is the Lower Wisconsin River. It freezes up when it gets real cold, and opens back up when it gets into the 20s, if it hasn't been below zero for too long prior. It's shallow, and there is good current. You wouldn't want to try walking across it. The boat landings are not maintained during the winter. Some have frozen bays and/or snow on the ramps. If you can dump the boat into the river when there is chunk ice flowing downstream, you've got the bump and grind of cutting across the river through the ice chunks. When you land on the opposite bank, you've got quite a bit of marsh to walk through to access the areas just south of the tracks paralleling the highway. Some of it is frozen, some of it isn't. And when it gets real cold, you would have to pull traps as you couldn't cut across the river to get to the places where you still have another mile or so to walk through the marsh to get to the areas just south of the tracks.

So what we have here is this situation: there is no access from the north side of the river. There is limited access from the south side of the river if the weather is mild. Nobody runs a boat across this section of the Lower Wisconsin River in the winter. So there literally is no access.

Trapping Spot A is a five-minute walk from the truck across the tracks to the slough. The same spot is, weather permitting, a twenty to thirty-minute run up or down the river from a boat landing that may or may not be accessible, then a half mile jaunt through the bottoms, which might take the average fella what . . . ten to fifteen minutes to walk, or Boco five minutes.

Interesting when I read a thread about public lands being closed off to the public by more gates and fences here, there is usually an outcry on how we're losing access to "our" lands and waters. But when the railroad keeps us out of public lands and waters, some of you must hear a calling to tell us just how wrong we are and we should simply take it in the shorts and give up on the issue.

Well, I ain't giving up, I'm still checking sets by walking across the tracks, and if a bipartisan push to restore our rights to cross the tracks causes you to get loose in the bowels 'cause it's a BIPARTISAN campaign, well then diaper up me buckos.




The only thing I have to ask about your rant is, if it was your land that the general public wants to cross at their whim, would you be ok with it?
Posted By: tlguy

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/12/20 08:03 PM

Not even hypothetical, it IS his land on the other side of the tracks. It's my land, too. And yours.
Posted By: Muskrat

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/12/20 08:06 PM

Originally Posted by hippie
. . . The only thing I have to ask about your rant is, if it was your land that the general public wants to cross at their whim, would you be ok with it?


Not a rant, rather an explanation to those who don't want to understand it. You are included.
Posted By: hippie

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/12/20 08:12 PM

So if you owned land between the public and public land, your be ok with anyone crossing you?

It's more common than you think if you haven't been out west and looked for a spot to get to BLM ground.
Posted By: hippie

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/12/20 08:19 PM

Originally Posted by Muskrat
Originally Posted by hippie
. . . The only thing I have to ask about your rant is, if it was your land that the general public wants to cross at their whim, would you be ok with it?


Not a rant, rather an explanation to those who don't want to understand it. You are included.


You think we don't have railroad tracks along every river here? Lol

I live and trap along a river that has tracks along its entire length!

We're not ignorant about what were talking about.
Posted By: Muskrat

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/12/20 08:25 PM

Originally Posted by hippie
. . You think we don't have railroad tracks along every river here? Lol

I live and trap along a river that has tracks along its entire length!

We're not ignorant about what were talking about.


So what have YOU done to change that situation?
Posted By: hippie

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/12/20 08:27 PM

I got no problem with it, it's private land.

Now, answer my question I posed several times.....
Posted By: Dirt

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/12/20 08:32 PM

[Linked Image]


I'll educate your trappers how to access your public land.
Posted By: Muskrat

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/12/20 08:34 PM

Nice pic Dirt. Now hold that thought til Friday morning.
Posted By: hippie

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/12/20 08:34 PM

I looked like that a time of two. Sleet hitting your frozen stiff cheeks hurt the worst!
Posted By: Muskrat

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/12/20 08:36 PM

Originally Posted by hippie
I got no problem with it, it's private land.

Now, answer my question I posed several times.....


Just because you've given up doesn't mean the rest of us should too.
Posted By: hippie

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/12/20 08:38 PM

And it appears since you won't say you'll allow the public to cross your land, you just wanna take, not give.
Posted By: Muskrat

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/12/20 08:52 PM

Not the same, and you know it. So you've given up and continue to champion the cause of the railroad. Not my style.
Posted By: virgil1972

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/12/20 08:55 PM

Either you respect private land or you do not.
Posted By: hippie

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/12/20 08:55 PM

Lol

At least you admit you value your rights more than someone elses.
Posted By: WIMarshRAT

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/12/20 09:02 PM

Originally Posted by hippie
So if you owned land between the public and public land, your be ok with anyone crossing you?


If there was already an easement in place, then I have no problem with folk crossing between the two assuming they use the existing easement. I knew that going in. See that is the point you completely disregard.

The railroad cuddled up to government officials to eliminate that easement.
Posted By: hippie

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/12/20 09:04 PM

Was this after a huge lawsuit?
Posted By: Muskrat

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/12/20 09:05 PM

When your grandkids someday ask you why you can't cross the tracks to set up that 'rat hut over there, be sure to share with them what YOU DID NOT DO to help change the law. Then tell them it's easier to be like sheep and not cause any problems for the sake of change.
Posted By: hippie

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/12/20 09:10 PM

Ours went no trespassing for liability reasons, same as yours did. That's also the reason a lot of people won't allow you to hunt their land.

Whiney panty waisted people who don't take responsibility for their own stupidness is why this stuff happens.
Posted By: WIMarshRAT

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/12/20 09:14 PM

Hippie WI is a little different. We protect our landowners with immunity that allow hunting/fishing on their land. https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/895/II/52
Posted By: tlguy

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/12/20 09:15 PM

Wisconsin has laws protecting landowners if someone gets hurt while recreating on their land. Pennsylvania doesn't? Can you guys hunt on Sunday yet?
Posted By: ApocalypticGoatH

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/12/20 09:18 PM

There is a difference between cuddling and negotiating. The government wanted the railroads to open up the West and improve interstate commerce and so did the people.

I don't know how a stroke of a pen can take a private property owners rights in a free society without compensating the property owner.
Posted By: hippie

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/12/20 09:26 PM

Originally Posted by tlguy
Wisconsin has laws protecting landowners if someone gets hurt while recreating on their land. Pennsylvania doesn't? Can you guys hunt on Sunday yet?


Nope, that's why they call it tresspassing. Then they're covered. There might be for hunting, not sure but you need permission.

All I have to say is, if you think it's alright to take the railroads rights away, don't be whining if it's your rights next.
Posted By: Mr. Ed

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/13/20 04:44 AM

Maybe we should have a RR track the length of our southern boarder and let the RR handle the illegal aliens when they cross the tracks.
Posted By: Donnersurvivor

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/13/20 05:10 AM

You can value private property rights while promoting common sense... Or atleast some people can.
Posted By: ApocalypticGoatH

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/13/20 10:31 AM

It's common sense to think if you want something of value you should expect to pay for it unless the other party is willing to give it to you or you have a legal right to it.
Posted By: Dirty D

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/13/20 01:02 PM

Originally Posted by Dirt
[Linked Image]


I'll educate your trappers how to access your public land.


But thats TOO HARD. grin grin

Muskrat admits there is access but its not easy.

Even if the is ABSOLUTELY no way to get access that doesn't mean that private property rights should be ignored.
Posted By: tlguy

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/13/20 01:35 PM

If there was absolutely no access, the state should sell the land and buy some land that is accessible. They would have to sell it to the railroad since they're the only ones with access to it, and it should be sold at fair market value.

Access across open water or solid ice is fine, except it's a river so it's rarely one or the other between December and March.
Posted By: Canvasback2

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/13/20 03:06 PM

How about the State using it's Power of Eminent Domain to seize sections of Railroad tracks , just to provide crossings , and creating a Federal Law that states wherever there is any type of Railroad crossing, whether it be a private or public railroad crossing; the Railroad or Railways shall at all times allow access to use the crossing . In instances where rail cars are parked for whatever reason, there shall be rail cars unhooked so that all traffic, people and vehicles of any type, shall be allowed to use the crossings at all times of the day or night.
Posted By: Muskrat

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/14/20 04:38 PM

Originally Posted by Dirt
[Linked Image]


I'll educate your trappers how to access your public land.



Originally Posted by Muskrat
Nice pic Dirt. Now hold that thought til Friday morning.


Well, it's Friday, and with the cold snap predicted here's what you've got in front of you if you need to check those sets across the river that could have been accessed by a five-minute walk from the highway across the tracks on the north side of the river into public lands and waters.

The boat landing. See that chunky look to the snow at the top of the ramp? That's ice left over from earlier this winter when the river was up into the parking lot and it froze.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

If you should decide to launch here and skid the boat across the ice, here's what you've got to look forward to soon as you hit the current. The pics don't give a good idea of how fast the current is moving alongside the shoreline.

[Linked Image]

Now slide along the bank 'til the engine warms up.

[Linked Image]

Now head across the river.

[Linked Image]

Or you might take the upstream landing which drops off into current, thus no bay to freeze up. It's there, just look for the parking lot.

[Linked Image]

Then fire 'er up and head on down the river.

[Linked Image]

Soon as this starts jamming together it will freeze tight, looking more like scree than lake ice. You can see that starting already close to the shore here.

So Dirt, educate me on how to cross this to access public lands and waters. You might get across there today, but guaranteed tomorrow it will be locked up. And if you think you're going to walk across it, best prepare your funeral plans now, IF they find your body down around New Orleans come spring.





Posted By: Dirt

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/14/20 04:49 PM

[Linked Image]

What's that thing on the other bank behind my boat?
Posted By: Donnersurvivor

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/14/20 05:20 PM

Originally Posted by gray dog
It's common sense to think if you want something of value you should expect to pay for it unless the other party is willing to give it to you or you have a legal right to it.


No its common sense that the tradition of allowing foot traffic should have established an easement.
Originally Posted by Canvasback2
How about the State using it's Power of Eminent Domain to seize sections of Railroad tracks , just to provide crossings , and creating a Federal Law that states wherever there is any type of Railroad crossing, whether it be a private or public railroad crossing; the Railroad or Railways shall at all times allow access to use the crossing . In instances where rail cars are parked for whatever reason, there shall be rail cars unhooked so that all traffic, people and vehicles of any type, shall be allowed to use the crossings at all times of the day or night.

^^^ If they dont want to play ball do this.
Posted By: Moosetrot

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/14/20 05:43 PM

Did my best to try to figure out how to post some maps, etc. but can't....

The problems and access restrictions created by the railroad restriction are huge over here on the west side of Wisconsin. The train tracks run north and south along the Mississippi
River, most of which is the Upper Mississippi River Refuge, both lands and waters. We are effectively cut off from thousands of acres of lands that we historically had walk-in access for hunting and trapping after crossing the tracks. Most of these areas are not accessible by boat even in the best of conditions. Many of these areas are huge blocks of land cut by the tracks with either federal or state lands being divided. Comparing this to a simple private versus public lands access issue is comparing apples to oranges.

Moosetrot
Posted By: WIMarshRAT

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/14/20 06:08 PM

Originally Posted by Moosetrot
Did my best to try to figure out how to post some maps, etc. but can't....

Moosetrot



This is a pretty good interactive map of the Mississippi river. https://lacrossetribune.com/limited...9ab87bf-7e4e-5a25-9002-c03fe2bf02c2.html

Posted By: ApocalypticGoatH

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/14/20 07:17 PM

Donnersurvivor,

Apparently You missed this post of mine.

Originally Posted by gray dog
Canvasback2,

Look up New York State laws about prescriptive easements and easements of necessity which can be found on the internet. If you are serious about determining what you legal rights are you will hire an attorney or contact Donnersurvivor on this forum.

Good luck.

Posted By: Sprung & Rusty

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/14/20 07:18 PM

Just wondering if it's patrolled heavily. What are the chances of even being caught crossing?
Posted By: Dean Chapel

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/14/20 08:34 PM

People complain about the thought of eminent domain being used to get access, but wasn't it eminent domain that took their property to build the railroad in the first place?
Posted By: Twisted metal

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/15/20 12:22 PM

I love hard to access land because of less pressure. Private property is just that if I worked hard and own it that should mean no one but me has any right to hunt fish or trap unless permission is given. I think people should stop crying about it get off there a$$ and work a little harder.
Posted By: Hodagtrapper

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/15/20 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by Twisted metal
I love hard to access land because of less pressure. Private property is just that if I worked hard and own it that should mean no one but me has any right to hunt fish or trap unless permission is given. I think people should stop crying about it get off there a$$ and work a little harder.


Once again, in this case, it is many thousands of acres of public land that is effectively cut off to the tax paying and license buying citizens of this state. Land that was accessible for the entire lives of some members here on this site. It is not a matter of your fellow trappers not willing to put in the effort as the available legal access points are such that a 10 mile or more circuitous route over ever changing conditions during the open season basically prevents any use of the public resource. Common sense needs to take the lead on this issue and collectively we should be encouraging the continuing outdoor pursuits of our fellow trappers, hunters and fisherman, many who now are senior in age, on lands owned by all of us without the ad hominem attacks. Contact your State Senator and State Representative and support the legislation needed so that the law can be reasonable changed to allow for foot traffic straight across the tracks to the public lands on the other side!

Chris
Posted By: The Beav

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/15/20 02:15 PM

So looking at the rats pictures of all that floating Ice why would you want to be out there any way? And even If you could cross the tracks at any point you would still have to drag your boat across and what would be the point when you have conditions like shown In the pictures.

But If the boat landing Is un useable just get some one with a plow and pay him $40.00 to clean It out. Think out of the box.
Posted By: Moosetrot

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/15/20 02:16 PM

Originally Posted by Twisted metal
I love hard to access land because of less pressure. Private property is just that if I worked hard and own it that should mean no one but me has any right to hunt fish or trap unless permission is given. I think people should stop crying about it get off there a$$ and work a little harder.


More apples and oranges.

Moosetrot
Posted By: Macthediver

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/15/20 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by Twisted metal
I love hard to access land because of less pressure. Private property is just that if I worked hard and own it that should mean no one but me has any right to hunt fish or trap unless permission is given. I think people should stop crying about it get off there a$$ and work a little harder.


There are more things here in play than just walking across the tracks in straight line..
People who don't know this area just say come at it from a different direction..Fine.. I own an airboat, flatboat with motor, a quad runner, canoe, couple kayak's...get the picture..
Most of the area we are talking about is a Federal National wild life refuge.. So there are areas I can not legally run the airboat or a mud motor and this is during trapping season. Which I also have to have a different additional permit to trap on that land..Then take the quad right or snowmobile. Well good but you can only run the quad or snowmobile on the ice can't cross any land or islands..
Nothing like drive 2 miles paying to launch the airboat.. then using $25.00 dollars worth fuel to get to a place can trap rats worth $2.50. Before I could drive 2 mile park truck pull otter sled 20 yards straight across track. Hike couple yards start setting traps..

We all talk about getting more kids involved in outdoors.. When I was a kid I spent hours fishing and crawling around in these places. Now there not accessible to kids.. But I guess them kids are just lazy or they would find time and a way to get in there.. Just need to remember can only check traps during day light hours.. Oh and if your out past dark fishing or what ever..don't leave the truck and trailer at the boat landing where you paid to park. Might get a ticket for $50.00.. No over night parking allowed.. And that is a whole different battle with different folks.


Mac
Posted By: Muskrat

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/15/20 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by The Beav
So looking at the rats pictures of all that floating Ice why would you want to be out there any way? And even If you could cross the tracks at any point you would still have to drag your boat across and what would be the point when you have conditions like shown In the pictures.

But If the boat landing Is un useable just get some one with a plow and pay him $40.00 to clean It out. Think out of the box.


C'mon Beav. Do I have to draw ya a picture? Hmmm . . maybe I do. Me thinks you've been in the box way too long.

Now I can either park the truck on the north side of the river, walk across the highway, the tracks and into the marsh to the nearest 'rat hut, all of which would take 5 minutes, OR . . . drop the boat in at a landing on the south shore (there are none on the north shore in this 11-mile stretch) motor up/down stream to the edge of the marsh/swamp, then walk through the bottoms up to that hut, that is maybe thirty yards from the highway. And that's if the river is open. Make sense now?

[Linked Image]
Posted By: Bruce T

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/15/20 04:55 PM

I'd go across the tracks with the ice that bad myself.
Posted By: 330-Trapper

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/15/20 05:01 PM

Kind of glad I left Wisconsin before this was an issue
Posted By: Muskrat

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/15/20 05:03 PM

Originally Posted by Bruce T
I'd go across the tracks with the ice that bad myself.


And that's what I do.
Posted By: Muskrat

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/15/20 05:07 PM

Know what I'd like to do? Take a couple of legislators along for a boat ride through the chunk ice, then have 'em follow me through the bottoms with hip boots for three or four hundred yards, then as we approach these 'rat huts we can wave to the folks driving by . . on the other side of the tracks. Wonder if the paramedics would have permission to cross the tracks to revive 'em.
Posted By: Bruce T

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/15/20 05:11 PM

Originally Posted by Muskrat
Know what I'd like to do? Take a couple of legislators along for a boat ride through the chunk ice, then have 'em follow me through the bottoms with hip boots for three or four hundred yards, then as we approach these 'rat huts we can wave to the folks driving by . . on the other side of the tracks. Wonder if the paramedics would have permission to cross the tracks to revive 'em.

grin
Posted By: Sprung & Rusty

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/15/20 05:31 PM

Where I go, deer hunters and waterfowl hunters disregard this law on a daily basis. Some don't stop just at crossing. Many walk the tracks. Even fishing up in Marionette for the walleye run, people walk the railroad bridge to get to the island.
Posted By: Bruce T

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/15/20 05:34 PM

Originally Posted by Sprung&Rusty
Where I go, deer hunters and waterfowl hunters disregard this law on a daily basis. Some don't stop just at crossing. Many walk the tracks. Even fishing up in Marionette for the walleye run, people walk the railroad bridge to get to the island.

I walk up the tracks myself to some of my mink and muskrat trapping spots.
Posted By: 330-Trapper

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/15/20 05:56 PM

Originally Posted by Muskrat
Originally Posted by Bruce T
I'd go across the tracks with the ice that bad myself.


And that's what I do.

: grin
Posted By: Hodagtrapper

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/15/20 06:00 PM

There seems to be more enforcement in the Southwest area of the State. My guess is the threat of terrorist action to the tracks/trains so near the Mississippi and Wisconsin Rivers!

Chris
Posted By: Muskrat

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/15/20 06:16 PM

The reason the Beav is scared of walking the tracks to this day. This scene was from part of his memoirs describing his childhood. The kid that portrays him in this movie wears the striped shirt with the white collar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gozRrRCtj6E

Posted By: trapperrev

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/15/20 06:22 PM

12 pages... good grief. I was curious about the thread because I was chastised by a RR guy once. There was a crossing - I don't think it was a formal easement - that the RR said was there so that the farmer could access his field because the RR couldn't keep him from accessing his land. Regardless, he told me not to get caught because he didn't think I should be using it because I was just the non-landowner trapper. It seems I had permission to the private lands of the farmer but I didn't have permission from the railroad.

The problem we have is because our law is limited to a dualistic nature of public vs. private land. Railroad technically fits the category of private ground but the land is purchased and shaped in a unique way that personal property cannot match. There's not only a distinction between personal private property and corporate private property but also between other corporate private property and railroad private property.

Let's say my great great grandfather bought a large parcel of land in 1900 for some strange reason. The land he bought was in Wisconsin, 30 feet north to south, but east to west went from the Iowa/Minnesota border to Lake Michigan. The only legal easements were the roads in existence at the time and none were created since, no other roads or crossings were legally allowed thereafter. Crossings took place... until I inherited it and raised a stink about it. Would it legally be in my right? Yes. But it's a rather ridiculous example of personal property even though it's typical of railroad corporate property. Not all private property is equal.

Are we jointly co-owners of public land because we pay taxes? Would we also be co-owners of a railroad company if we had shares in it? If I invested in a railroad company would I be able to claim part ownership and then be able to cross that railroad's tracks when I wished because I'd claim it as partly *my* private property? Somehow I don't think the railroad would come to the same conclusion.

Railroads are an odd duck.
Posted By: hippie

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/15/20 06:34 PM

Originally Posted by trapperrev
12 pages... good grief. I was curious about the thread because I was chastised by a RR guy once. There was a crossing - I don't think it was a formal easement - that the RR said was there so that the farmer could access his field because the RR couldn't keep him from accessing his land. Regardless, he told me not to get caught because he didn't think I should be using it because I was just the non-landowner trapper. It seems I had permission to the private lands of the farmer but I didn't have permission from the railroad.

The problem we have is because our law is limited to a dualistic nature of public vs. private land. Railroad technically fits the category of private ground but the land is purchased and shaped in a unique way that personal property cannot match. There's not only a distinction between personal private property and corporate private property but also between other corporate private property and railroad private property.

Let's say my great great grandfather bought a large parcel of land in 1900 for some strange reason. The land he bought was in Wisconsin, 30 feet north to south, but east to west went from the Iowa/Minnesota border to Lake Michigan. The only legal easements were the roads in existence at the time and none were created since, no other roads or crossings were legally allowed thereafter. Crossings took place... until I inherited it and raised a stink about it. Would it legally be in my right? Yes. But it's a rather ridiculous example of personal property even though it's typical of railroad corporate property. Not all private property is equal.

Are we jointly co-owners of public land because we pay taxes? Would we also be co-owners of a railroad company if we had shares in it? If I invested in a railroad company would I be able to claim part ownership and then be able to cross that railroad's tracks when I wished because I'd claim it as partly *my* private property? Somehow I don't think the railroad would come to the same conclusion.

Railroads are an odd duck.


Good questions.

My friend r owns property that has a pipeline across it that benefits the public.
I have a sewer line crossing my property that benefits the public.

Should the public, because it was taken from us, have the right to trample across us?
Posted By: Bruce T

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/15/20 06:57 PM

Originally Posted by Muskrat
The reason the Beav is scared of walking the tracks to this day. This scene was from part of his memoirs describing his childhood. The kid that portrays him in this movie wears the striped shirt with the white collar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gozRrRCtj6E


Lol laugh
Posted By: The Beav

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/15/20 07:38 PM

Originally Posted by Muskrat
The reason the Beav is scared of walking the tracks to this day. This scene was from part of his memoirs describing his childhood. The kid that portrays him in this movie wears the striped shirt with the white collar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gozRrRCtj6E



Your wrong as usual no where will you find In this thread where I was scared to walk the tracks or cross them. I just pulled a few CRs today and I crossed the tracks In 2 places and In another I waked 100 yards down the tracks to pull another one. Your the one making this a huge Issue.
When we were young and stupid we use to put the car On the tracks and run from one crossing to the next one.
Posted By: Bruce T

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/15/20 07:57 PM

Originally Posted by The Beav
When we were young and stupid we use to put the car On the tracks and run from one crossing to the next one.

shocked
Posted By: Muskrat

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/15/20 07:58 PM

grin
Posted By: Moosetrot

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/15/20 08:28 PM

Beav-You must not have the Railroad cop cruising up and down the tracks like we do over here.

Moosetrot
Posted By: Muskrat

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/15/20 08:44 PM

From the newspaper article: ". . . Devils Lake State Park where more than 100,000 people each year illegally cross the railroad tracks on the public property. . . "

Interesting isn't it? The railroad dicks are more concerned with a few trappers, hunters and fishermen crossing the tracks than the 100,000+ people in one state park crossing the tracks annually. Ah, but that would be bad PR. Much easier to bag that lone trapper, fisherman or hunter and hope he/she doesn't squeak too much.

Pathetic. And our legislators are grappling with this issue?

Meanwhile, the "old guys" who have walked across the tracks all their lives to ice fish their favorite honey holes now sit in the living room looking out the window wishing they could be out there on the bucket. They're too old to park X number of miles up or down the highway and then walk the same distance back across the ice. And they're hoping someone with enough guts will get this issue resolved before they're too old to sit on the bucket any longer.

Posted By: Bruce T

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/15/20 09:05 PM

Originally Posted by Moosetrot
Beav-You must not have the Railroad cop cruising up and down the tracks like we do over here.

Moosetrot

Never even heard of one let alone seen one.
Posted By: 330-Trapper

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/15/20 09:11 PM

Originally Posted by Bruce T
Originally Posted by Moosetrot
Beav-You must not have the Railroad cop cruising up and down the tracks like we do over here.

Moosetrot

Never even heard of one let alone seen one.

Thats because they're talking about Wisconsin
Posted By: Dean Chapel

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/17/20 02:59 PM

Originally Posted by Muskrat
The reason the Beav is scared of walking the tracks to this day. This scene was from part of his memoirs describing his childhood. The kid that portrays him in this movie wears the striped shirt with the white collar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gozRrRCtj6E




The RR engineer must have known it was beav- I noticed no braking on that engine; it may have even sped up a little.
Posted By: The Beav

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/17/20 04:31 PM

None of you ever ran the tracks with your car or truck?
Posted By: Moosetrot

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/17/20 04:44 PM

Yup! We used to feed hunt an area off of Hwy. 54 near Babcock. Way to the north there was a train tracks. Instead of dragging deer we shot north of the tracks we would drive a vehicle way east and access the tracks and drive right up to the deer. Kinda nervy once in a while but a lot easier than dragging them through a foot of water, ice, and tag alders.

Moosetrot
Posted By: wallfur

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/17/20 06:03 PM

Originally Posted by Moosetrot
Yup! We used to feed hunt an area off of Hwy. 54 near Babcock. Way to the north there was a train tracks. Instead of dragging deer we shot north of the tracks we would drive a vehicle way east and access the tracks and drive right up to the deer. Kinda nervy once in a while but a lot easier than dragging them through a foot of water, ice, and tag alders.

Moosetrot
........wonder why the railroad is posted no trespassing now?
Posted By: Moosetrot

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/17/20 06:17 PM

That was in the mid 70's. Would I do it now...no. Was it a common practice in that area at that time. (45 years ago)..Yes.

Moosetrot
Posted By: wallfur

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/17/20 06:26 PM

yes but it still goes on today not by you but others..............just the other day I heard a train report of train missing a guy by inches! train called dispatcher and he called the cops...I was in the area and seen the guy walking down the middle of the tracks fully camouflage hunting ducks.....I did him a favor and told him cops on the way and to get gone.....in Idaho you lose your hunting lic for trespassing and I didn't want to see that happen to anyone. a little common sense goes along ways.....railroad don't really care if someone walks across the tracks but using it for a right of way is a different story
Posted By: wallfur

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/17/20 06:32 PM

oh everyone of those trains have video recorder in them......dash cam tells everything!
Posted By: Macthediver

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/17/20 10:42 PM

It's not like you can't sneak across the tracks here at any single given moment. Like some of you guys must be doing where you live. I know places away from this area where I can or will if I want to cross rail road track.. Make me a bad man like people that don't use their directional in a turn only lane..Right! LOL.. No just no one ever going to be there to see ya cross unless ya fall in middle can't get back up....

My son knows one of the railroad dicks run the tracks here.. The guy is just a young guy him self trying to do his job.. He's not out there 24/7 eyes in the sky grabbing everyone crossing the tracks. He is not however just some dummy running up and down tracks hassling folks. He knows where the main hot spots are that the masses regularly crossed. He knows his section of the tracks and like any police officer patrols heaviest in the hot spots. He also can easily see a car parked on the adjacent road or pull off, Which he is often on the road, not driving the tracks them selves in his rail road cop car. When he see's someone out on the ice fishing along the track in some odd places. Even if there is no car parked nearby. It's pretty safe to assume they have crossed the tracks to get there. Not humped it across sketchy ice for mile or even couple hundred yards. He then only has to move out of site and watch until the person comes off..
I heard he gives more warnings than tickets. At least to someone he has stopped the first time. I know he ticket one guy last spring during walleye run when river was high. It was second or third time he caught him fishing from right-of-way...He had crossed at and approved crossing but because the river was at above 10ft I think it was. He was now considered no longer just on shore line but being higher on river bank put him on right of way... So I guess you can say he had it coming 3 strikes your out right? I fish that same spot a week later with a friend river at 8ft and we were just couple feet lower on bank same rip rap..My guess is that like trout stream thing where person can walk in the stream or on shore to the high water mark? That can't be true because your trespassing on private property walking that trout stream Right??? Even if your in the water?

It's pretty interesting how some people here on T-man just can not seem to grasp how this mess is set up..How messed up this set up is..
I picked up a couple 3 -4 people myself run over hit by them trains on them very tracks..Not a pretty thing to deal with. Funny not a one of them was in camo, carrying a fish pole or wearing pack full traps...Oh wait that wasn't my part of the tracks where people cross to fish or hunt....Geeze my mistake couple them people were at crossings with drop gates..


Mac
Posted By: Bruce T

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/17/20 11:04 PM

Originally Posted by The Beav
None of you ever ran the tracks with your car or truck?

Lol....nope
Posted By: wallfur

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/17/20 11:15 PM

Originally Posted by Macthediver
It's not like you can't sneak across the tracks here at any single given moment. Like some of you guys must be doing where you live. I know places away from this area where I can or will if I want to cross rail road track.. Make me a bad man like people that don't use their directional in a turn only lane..Right! LOL.. No just no one ever going to be there to see ya cross unless ya fall in middle can't get back up....

My son knows one of the railroad dicks run the tracks here.. The guy is just a young guy him self trying to do his job.. He's not out there 24/7 eyes in the sky grabbing everyone crossing the tracks. He is not however just some dummy running up and down tracks hassling folks. He knows where the main hot spots are that the masses regularly crossed. He knows his section of the tracks and like any police officer patrols heaviest in the hot spots. He also can easily see a car parked on the adjacent road or pull off, Which he is often on the road, not driving the tracks them selves in his rail road cop car. When he see's someone out on the ice fishing along the track in some odd places. Even if there is no car parked nearby. It's pretty safe to assume they have crossed the tracks to get there. Not humped it across sketchy ice for mile or even couple hundred yards. He then only has to move out of site and watch until the person comes off..
I heard he gives more warnings than tickets. At least to someone he has stopped the first time. I know he ticket one guy last spring during walleye run when river was high. It was second or third time he caught him fishing from right-of-way...He had crossed at and approved crossing but because the river was at above 10ft I think it was. He was now considered no longer just on shore line but being higher on river bank put him on right of way... So I guess you can say he had it coming 3 strikes your out right? I fish that same spot a week later with a friend river at 8ft and we were just couple feet lower on bank same rip rap..My guess is that like trout stream thing where person can walk in the stream or on shore to the high water mark? That can't be true because your trespassing on private property walking that trout stream Right??? Even if your in the water?

It's pretty interesting how some people here on T-man just can not seem to grasp how this mess is set up..How messed up this set up is..
I picked up a couple 3 -4 people myself run over hit by them trains on them very tracks..Not a pretty thing to deal with. Funny not a one of them was in camo, carrying a fish pole or wearing pack full traps...Oh wait that wasn't my part of the tracks where people cross to fish or hunt....Geeze my mistake couple them people were at crossings with drop gates..


Mac
...................your part of the tracks?????you own them??... don't really matter where you at on the tracks! at crossings driving around gates running the lights ...kids playing on tracks in the city...out in the middle of now where walking down the tracks.....in 25 years with the railroad seen some bad crashes with cars.. kids ..pedestrians..not pretty sight and not once did the train lose! play stupid games win stupid prizes! so don't let anything but common sense stop you.
Posted By: 330-Trapper

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/17/20 11:18 PM

Crossed them many times in Cameron ...rice lake andEau claire
Posted By: The Beav

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/18/20 12:15 AM

So when did this railroad crossing Issue begin?
Posted By: Moosetrot

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/18/20 12:47 AM

The law was changed in 2006.

Moosetrot
Posted By: 330-Trapper

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/18/20 01:12 AM

I had moved to Mn by then
Posted By: wallfur

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 02/18/20 02:01 AM

also heightened security after 9/ 11.....also train crews have to report all vehicles and people seen on and near tracks along right of ways it didn't used to be that way...way to many crashes. incidents and close calls these days
Posted By: AJE

Re: Crossing railroad tracks to access public lands - 07/19/20 03:38 AM

Like this unfortunate incident, today, wallfur.

https://www.weau.com/2020/07/18/fatal-train-collision-in-buffalo-county/
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