Baptist

Found this and just figured I'd share.


C. H. Spurgeon on Baptist Perpetuity

"We believe that the Baptists are the original Christians. We did not commence our existence at the reformation, we were reformers before Luther or Calvin were born; we never came from the Church of Rome, for we were never in it, but we have an unbroken line up to the apostles themselves. We have always existed from the very days of Christ, and our principles, sometimes veiled and forgotten, like a river which may travel underground for a little season, have always had honest and holy adherents. Persecuted alike by Romanists and Protestants of almost every sect, yet there has never existed a Government holding Baptist principles which persecuted others; nor I believe any body of Baptists ever held it to be right to put the consciences of others under the control of man. We have ever been ready to suffer, as our martyrologies will prove, but we are not ready to accept any help from the State, to prostitute the purity of the Bride of Christ to any alliance with the government, and we will never make the Church, although the Queen, the despot over the consciences of men". (From The New Park Street Pulpit, Vol.VII, Page 225).

Good read Brian but I think many of the congregations have let politics in the pulpits in the last couple of decades and have indeed allied themselves with the government.

Dunno about allied? Politics in the pulpits is a must in the sense of having a voice in it! Allied in the sense of a state religion? No way!

Love me some Spurgeon.

No disrespect meant, but I don't think a certain church in Kansas got the memo.


God Bless our Troops.



Charlie

Lol

Your OK with me chas.

What ya mean about church in Kansas?

Westboro Baptist Church!

Yeah

We all have that one family member!

I'm pretty ashamed of the southern Baptist as well. Most arnt Baptist anymore!

Over time you will see the Baptist part of sign be replaced with "Christian" or other spiritual type sayings.

Or not. Most of us are independent

The problem is that nowadays the name "Baptist" doesn't mean much. Baptists today run the range from David Duke to Jesse Jackson; I think even "Reverend Al" is a Baptist.

All those naysayers about religion in general should thank the Baptists for the fact that we don't have a Government run church. In the early days of our Country it was the Baptists from western Pennsylvania who vehemently protested the idea of establishing a State religion. I think it was the Congregationalist Church that we almost had for an official State church.

I think someone else said that once here!

Also

It was a couple Baptist who kicked off the revolution!

Black robe regiment

You had better have thick skin if you want to get involved with running a Baptist church. Baptists really do love to spar with each other; sometimes about the dumbest things, like what color to paint the church. Baptist hate hierarchy.

Lol

Just another bunch of proddys.

It sounds like they are almost Anarchists .

Yeah

Read some early stories about Baptist who were persecuted here before we gained our Independence! Some rough neck individuals. Was no backing down they knew of.

Read one story about a guy they beat so long and so hard in a prison because he wouldn't renounce Christ. The inmates ended up fighting the jailers on his behalf.

Anti tyrant

I love ya boco. But some time I can't tell if your serious, or just looking for a fight?

So I just gonna say ok

OH,..he's looking alright!,..dagos,..always looking!

I like the book America In Crimson Red.

Do Baptist churches not take advantage of 501c3 tax exemption? That’s a new one to me.

I love Spurgeon and the Baptist legacy. But there’s holes in every castle.

when did the Baptists decide not to honor the sabbath anymore and keep it holy? (Saturday) you know the 4th commandment.


“Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Danny, how do you know which day the Lord started counting on?

well Christianity is an off shoot of Judaism. jews still use Saturday. the bible said jesus did too. so I just wonder why that commandant got changed or get's ignored now. I believe it started with Constantine and the bible he put together. if Baptists want to claim existence predating Catholicism why did they change the sabboth when the original catholic church did? or did the baptists keep the sabbath a little longer and change for some other reason? or did early Baptists come up with the idea of church on sunday before Constantine changed it? did the bible the Baptists use predate Constantine and history is wrong on who put it together. I am confused. going to start some coffee and get ready for work. bout to give myself a head ache trying to figure this stuff out

Must have counted same as the Jews.


Luke 4:16 (NKJV)
16 So He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. And as His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up to read.

This also shows the difference.

Mark 16:1 Now when the Sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome brought spices, that they might come and anoint Him. 2 Very early in the morning, on the first day of the week, they came to the tomb when the sun had risen.

sabbath is under the law, we are now under grace. That is if one allows grace into to their life on GODS terms.

Exactly. Then there is cheap grace.....Once saved always saved. Sinning and trying to cover it with the blood over and over again. Of course I am Pentecostal so you know where I am coming from. LLL

Boco is Catholic, you know the one true religion, so of course he is looking for a fight.

That should get a fight started.

John 1:2 tells us Jesus is the only way to heaven and that we do not need man to confess to nor do we need a Pope to save us. "1My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. 2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world." I would never trust a man in Rome to discern scripture for me. It is unbiblical. LLL

As I will never trust any pastor or church leader to discern scripture for me no matter how GODLY that person is. It is my responsibility hear and search and discern, to know Gods word and act on it. I alone will answer for me alone to GOD

AMEN! You need to read it to know it also. Very few read it but think they know it. LLL

So why sunday and not the sabbath anymore?

In the same manner Christ made unclean food acceptable to eat He made everyday suitable to praise, worship and serve God.

Why so legal danny? Do you understand why the Sabbath exists? If you did you would not worry about it what day it came. LLL

Early Christians called the first day of the week "The Lord's Day", and started worshiping on that day. It didn't start with Constantine. Check Acts 20:7

Also Colossians 2:16&17 "Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

The law (Ten Commandments) where the "shadow of the things to come".

Jesus himself said in Mark that the Sabbath was made for man, man wasn't made for the Sabbath.

No one is going to answer why constantine changed it?

Constantine didn't change the common day of worship from Saturday to Sunday; the early Christians did. Maybe he made the day official, but it didn't start under him.

Acts 2 says right after Pentecost they all met together at the temple every day.

From what I have read is that the Old Testament doesn't exactly apply to Christians. Instead Christians have been saved by Jesus therefore should focus their attention to living in a Christ like way.

Would you folks say this is true?

The Catholic Church was unarguably started by Jesus Christ, yet it will be argued. The Baptist Church was started in 1609 by John Smyth. Both have and are being constantly changed by human beings. Both are based on much older religions that were changed by human beings. Both will continue to evolve and be changed by human beings. Nobody knows the truth, but many think they do. Treat other human beings well and try to do the best you can and the World will be a better place. It seems highly unlikely that a Creator capable of making everything would care about all the petty crap that makes people of different religions hate each other.

I personally think that their is a Creator, that we do have free will, that we do have everlasting souls and that the Creator does want us to grow more like Them. I'm almost assuredly wrong too.

Keith

Well Christ observed the sabath from what i have read

Are there any other commandments that are just suggestions?

Everything is a suggestion until accountability is applied.

In Christ - EVERY day is the Sabbath.
Salvation is simple - we don't have to make a "space shuttle" out of it.

Here's what I know. There are two types of people who will never come to salvation.
The analytical - those who analyze everything to death and can never make a decision because the answer to any question always raises another question.
The legalistic - those who are never sure of their standing before God because their salvation depends upon their works. They can never be sure of their final destiny. Have they prayed enough, given enough, done enough good things to earn God's favor?

I have given over all my legal and minuscule attempts at trying to please God in the flesh to Christ. Here's the end of it all.
Even if I'm wrong, at the end of my life, I've lost nothing.
But... If the Bible is true, which I believe it is in spite of all the scoffers; the non-believer - they've lost everything.

When do you feel Jesus started the Catholic church?

When he anointed St. Peter as the "the Rock" The first pope.

How could Peter have been the first pope since he was married? You do realize that pope's aren't married? Matthew wrote: Matt 8:14. "And Jesus went into Peter's house, and found his wife's mother lying sick there with a fever."

Muskrat, can you cite any scripture to show that Peter was the first pope? Or just Catholic tradition? In matthew 16 Jesus changed Simon son of Judah's name to peter after peter proclaimed Jesus to be the Messiah. But it seems to me that the rock upon which He builds his church, as Jesus says, is the fact that He is the Messiah. Can you cite any other scripture pointing to the catholic church specifically being the original church, not just passages that refer to "the church"? Serious question, not trying to be argumentative. I'm not catholic. I do know that the catholic church relies not only on scripture but also tradition (that's a whole different debate), and I'm curious if there is scripture supporting the catholic church specifically, or if that's based on tradition.

In my opinion, all of the talks about traditions, semantics, etc. are one of the biggest problems with religion.

Things to live and die by:
God sent Jesus to die for our sins.
Jesus died and rose from the grave.
We're all sinners and fall short of the glory of God.
We'll all be judged on judgment day.

Doesn't matter what I say or what your local pastor says. Its for each man to study on and find the truth in. The truth being the word of God.

Danny, you seem pretty stuck on the idea that Sabbath means a specific day of the week, and it has to be the day the Romans named Saturday. God said “Remember the Sabbath and keep it Holy.” The word “Sabbath” simply means “day of rest.” He didn’t say “Keep the Sabbath on Saturday”. The word Saturday didn’t even exist then, you know. What God did in the Judaist tradition is establish the 7 day week-- 6 days of work, 1 of rest. He started that principle in the Creation story, saying He created for 6 days and then rested one. It never says which Roman day of the week it was. In fact I’m fairly sure that there wasn’t any specific day designated for Sabbath until the Jews left Egypt. Then, they probably simply started counting. Maybe they made the day they crossed the Red Sea the first day. But I have no idea whether it was a Sunday or Monday or what, because the Bible never lists days of the week.

From that point on, since they were an independent nation, they were able to keep track and name their days. But what about when they were exiled to other nations with a different calendar, then came back and started practicing Sabbath again? Are you saying you’re positive they landed exactly back on the same 7-day cycle?
And you’re saying you’re positive that when God gave the commandment, He was referring specifically to the day that would be named “Saturn’s Day” hundreds of years later?

I think you’re being absurdly legalistic about something very silly and unimportant. I believe strongly in keeping “a sabbath”— a day of rest roughly every 7 days. But if I have to work Saturday and Sunday, and rest on Monday or another day, it doesn’t matter a wit. Remember, He also said Sabbath was for rest- not church or worship. That’s a completely modern tradition. So if Jews go to synagogue on Saturday instead of just resting, and we rest on Saturday and go to church on Sunday, maybe they’re the ones sinning in your mind...

More food for thought, most ministers I know take a completely different day of rest because they spend Saturday preparing and Sunday preaching, which is their work, so their actual Sabbath is Monday or a different day of the week.. Maybe you think they’re sinning too...

Funny, since the full name of the Catholic Church is “The Roman Catholic Church,” and the Romans not only executed Jesus but tried to exterminate his “church” for a few hundred years until Constantine decided to “join em if you can’t beat em.”

I think everything about religion is silly. I was going to stay out of this thread till i read baptist was the first christian religion. It hurts to spray coffee out your nose. I will stay off your thread now.

There is no evidence that there was any clear cut Christian religion, not Baptist, protestant, or catholic. After Jesus ascended into heaven, the followers of Jesus just referred to themselves as Christians. Around 300AD there began to be some differences of opinion regarding interpretations and doctrines as the years passed. More and more different churches sprouted as the years went by.

If this will help: The origins of the bible were, the original manuscript which were interpreted into the Vulgate Edition, years later came the Duoay (catholic) version, then the King James (protestant) version, and many versions after that.

I'm pretty sure the catholic (Duoay) version of the bible doesn't say Peter was the first pope or mention the word catholic.

Danny -

I have observed your interest over the years concerning Christianity and your disregard. I want you to know, I am praying God reveal Himself to you in a very personal manner. He knew you before you were formed in your mothers womb. Only God knows how to show Himself to you. I believe you are a wise man who openly chooses to reject a loving God. I would encourage you to ask questions and learn as we all do. There will be a time, when you stand before Him - believe it or not.....I pray you gain a closer relationship with Him and learn of His personal love for you.

Where were the Baptists for the first 1600 years?

They were just called Christians during that time, same as the catholics were. The catholics decided to move into a little different direction sooner, that's all.

In troubled times, people of all Faiths should remember these 4 great religious truths:

1. Muslims do not recognize Jews as God's chosen people.
2. Jews do not recognize Jesus as the Messiah.
3. Protestants do not recognize the Pope as the leader of the Christian world.
4. Baptist do not recognize each other at the liquor store.

lol

Ok, I’ll give my two cents. Born to the most prominent Baptist family in my county. Started dating the daughter of the most prominent Catholic family in the county in 7th grade. Dated nine years, and married 21. I was at my baptist church two times every Sunday, bible study every Wednesday until we had kids. I’ve been a member of St. Anthony’s for 18 years now, but I’m not catholic. We go to Mass every Sunday, I read my bible every morning from 5am-6am. My wife and I both agree that Christ is our savior, and have raised our boys accordingly. Our boys listen to Chuck Swindoll, Adrian Rogers, Ravi Zacharias , etc. One thing I’ve learned over the years is that both churches have a lot more in common then either want to admit. There are things I really like about the Catholic Church, and things that I strongly disagree with too. Most people judge from the outside on both religions, but never study them. In the end that’s the problem religion! My family and I seek the Truth; Christ on the cross!! We still knock heads once in a while on religion debates, but never on our faith. And yes after all these years I still love to get her side of the family all wound up at the holidays in a good debate. Usually starts with me making a comment about the Pope putting his pants on one leg at a time like I do:)

For my friends who are stuck on the idea that the Sabbath must be observed on the 7th day of the week (saturday), I always suggest to them they get a European calender, many of them start the week on Monday thereby making Sunday the seventh day. It's all good then.
Kind of shows how ridiculous the whole argument is.

God has a calendar too. You should look into it.

Posted this earlier, but there seems to be a lack of understanding.

Jesus must have counted same as the Jews.


Luke 4:16 (NKJV)
16 So He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. And as His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up to read.



This also shows the difference between the Sabbath, and the first day.

Mark 16:1 Now when the Sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome brought spices, that they might come and anoint Him. 2 Very early in the morning, on the first day of the week, they came to the tomb when the sun had risen.

Most of you call this first day Sunday, or Easter.



And Jesus speaks of the future time of the end.

Matthew 24:20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath.

Must matter in the future, no?

There are many scriptures showing the first century church kept the Sabbath.

Lol so was Justin Martyr a Catholic or Baptist? How about Polycarp?

As a baptist I believe religion will send you to Hades quicker than anything.
I believe the Truth is Christ and it's best to keep your eyes affixed on Him. Just my two cents.

If the Sabbath must be observed on a certain day of the week, does that mean that police and firefighters and everyone else who works on a Sunday or Saturday sinning? If your house catches fire on a Sabbath day are you going to let it burn or call the fire department? Surely we all know what the Bible says about causing someone to sin, and there is no exceptions to the Sabbath.

EXACTLY!!

You just explained why the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.

Or it's an ox in the ditch scenario.

Perfectly said.

Peter said. Acts 15:11 “No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved “

I think the Jews probably bear as much responsibility as the Romans.

I even had to laugh at that one LOL

But here is a truth, religion all religion is mans way to reach out to GOD on mans terms do's and don't but always fall short. Salvation is GOD's grace given to man. Man must decide to accept or reject Gods grace based only on realizing our sinful nature separates us from him. the old testament law was to show man that we can not live up to the perfect standards that GOD is. He then gave his son to pay the penalty for man if that man accepts it, a penalty that we can never pay because of our sinful nature.

That exactly Jonsie. No one id "good" enough to get into heaven on their own, all our works are like filthy rags to God. Jesus is the only path to Heaven, and it's through grace alone, and not works, lest any should boast. We were all doomed to the same (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman), my sins are no better or worse than your sins. All who accept Jesus are part of the same body-Catholics, protestants, blacks, whites, liberal, conservative, (converted) muslims and jews, churched since birth, etc etc. We're all part of the same body and must learn to love another. It's fun to debate religious differences, and some of them are even important to have, but none of it is worth a lick without a saving knowledge of Jesus.

All true statements!

This is true. And there are many religions that we don't generally recognize as such. There are so many things we can trust in rather than Christ alone. But certainly, self sufficiency has to be the number one religion.

Jesus condemned the Pharisees and Scribes because they were so legalistic, a result of their hard core religious doctrines. Akin to not recognizing each other at the liquor store. (I love that one!)

Two hard facts about baptists.
1.If you plan on taking a Baptist fishing you need to take more than one of them because if you only take one he'll drink all your beer.
2. Baptist won't have sex standing up for fear someone will see them and think they were dancing.

All this mess from a great post Wow that all I can say.

Baptist

Another hard fact about Baptists: Baptist churches welcome anyone - there's always room for one more hypocrite.

Grew up in a town full of Baptist, worked for 12 years in another town that was owned and operated by baptists, worked in a car dealership owned by Baptists. I know full well how "accepting" they can be. Know a lot of them that are great people and are good friends of mine. On the other hand some of them will pat you on the back just long enough to find a soft spot to insert a long knife. The same can be said about people from many different religions and walks of life. Good and bad in everybody

Trapper7 Peter could still have been the first Pope even though he had a wife. Because Jesus was not hung up on stuff like that. Where would he find an honest fisherman in the Bronze Age who was not married.

This not

The Catholic tradition of celibacy for priests didn't start until the 11th century. It's not based on anything biblical. But then again, im not aware of any Scripture that points to having a pope or priests or the Catholic Church specifically. Just "the church", which includes all believers.

Usually starts with me making a comment about the Pope putting his pants on one leg at a time like I do:)(quote)


You Baptists should show a little more humility,lol

If the above is truly the case, those folks need to build an altar and do some heart to heart repenting.
Scripture says that we are all sinners and we all struggle with that our entire life on this earth.
The only difference between believers and non-believers is the Blood of Christ.
In that sense, I'm no different than a non-believer... except I consciously try to do better and I'm forgiven.
Do I mess up? Yeah - every day - but I know in Whom I've placed my trust for salvation.