HELP! Tree identification

This is a piece of a tree supposedly from Indiana. I don't know eastern hardwoods at all. Anybody out there give me a hand on this one. It been sitting in a chicken coop in Idaho for at least 60 years, probably much longer. The chunk pictured is about 12" long.

In advance, many thanks...

Jack

looks similar to some of our young hickory

The bark looks butternut....and the stain in the heartwood has that look ( the brown pith)
Also known as "poor mans walnut" but it is really nice for carving but not as soft as basswood.

I can only imagine what interesting creative use you will think of ...

The bark looks like a Bitternut Hickory ( pig hickory )

It looks like a young pig nut hickory or mocker nut hickorty. If I'm correct, the wood will be very hard.

Hickory

I'm thinking pig nut or young hickory, not sure if worms like the pig nut or not but they like to make meal out of the hickory. Even after the worms have at it will still be like steel , if you cut it in the dark esp. the bark the sparks will fly.

Many thanks guys. After your suggestions (sorry the photo isn't better) I googled several hardwoods for images of the bark. Closest match I can come up with is young shagbark hickory. I made a few scales for knife handles and found it to be hard, but nothing like the mountain mahogany I'm using now. Instead, will probably use it for axe/hatchet/hammer handles. I imagine not a big deal for you guys elsewhere, but finding hardwood in eastern Idaho at over 5,000' elevation is like finding a top-lot elephant pelt.

Again, many thanks...

Jack

Mockernut Hickory Or Pignut Hickory

Hasn't grown much in 60 years

Can't wait to see what the finished product looks like. I bet it will be very pretty.

I don't see any apples on it so I'd rule out apple tree.

Not a shagbark....bark looks more like tulip poplar to me.

P

I'm gonna say shagbark. The grain and color of the wood makes me think that. A piece that small would have that look, it could be an upper limb also. Mike

Fire wood.

I'm guessing tulip poplar also.

Doesn't look like hickory bark at all, to me.

Some young shagbarks look like that, and others are completely smooth. Tulip poplars also look similar. I don't think there's any way to ID it based on that pic alone.

Dried for 60 years poplar would be very light compared to hickory.

I don't think it's shagbark unless it is pretty small in diameter. They are smooth in its early stages but starts getting that shaggy bark before it gets very big in diameter. I have a bunch here in the yard at all stages. The shaggy bark is good to add into the charcoal for smokey BBQ.
It's possible that it is one of the other hickory mentioned, bitternut or mockernut.
How about Osage? That was grown lots of places for fence post and good ones at that.
I suppose either could have been kept around for making tool handles.

Another use for a hard wood out there might have been in barn construction where they used a hardwood peg to hold mortise and tenon joints.

It sure looks like Shagbark Hickory.

Again, many thanks for the help, guys. Once I pick out a few choice pieces and make a knife, I'll try to remember to post a follow-up photo. I'm still leaning toward hickory, but not sure which species precisely. Krispy, you can bet that with the lack of hardwood in this country, it ain't goin' in the woodstove. Ebsurveyor, although the bark looks similar, I suspect that osage would be a bit more orange in the heart/pulp wood. It's relatively heavy wood, even after 60-70 years at 10-15% humidity, so I'm thinking not poplar. As I said earlier, I'm thinking that most of the chunk will be saved as handles for various implements rather than knife scales.

Anyway, many thanks...

Jack

Good chose for tool handles but that brown stain will be a weak area. Are there any "dry post beetle" holes in that 60 year wood. The holes are 1/8 inch in diameter and the larvae travel 1-2 inches deep. Decorative carvers really like those to incoropate in duck/shorebird decoys.

I agree. I looks like pignuut hickory to me.

What specie is the tree referred to as Mountain mahogany? I have heard people refer to our black(sweet) birch as Mountain mahogany. It's pretty hard, but not nearly as hard as our hickories.

gryhkl,
Cercocarpus ledifolius is mountain mahogany. After desert ironwood, its the hardest wood in North America. It'll bend or chip half-moons out of a double-bitted axe, dull a chainsaw in seconds, and burn right through the bottom of your wood-stove. Great stuff, as long as you have a hacksaw and plenty of extra blades. Makes hickory look like marshmallows.

Not Osage Orange/Hedge. My first thought before I read all of these was green ash.

Turkey Time. Boy-Howdy! You may have it there. The bark looks pretty close. However, green ash is supposed to grow real fast, so would probably be fairly soft and lightweight. The wood on this chunk is heavy and its been drying for half a century. Could it still be green ash?

Jack

Thanks, Gulo.

Not a shagbark hickory, but it is Hickory..

Burn a small slice and smell the smoke. You will know if it's a type of hickory.

Ash is heavy but you are correct that it grows fast. Good conditions and growth rings will be larger but hickory will grow fast as well.

I'll take 10 cords postpaid !

I am familiar with mountain mahogany! Western fence lizards, Sceloporus occidentalis) prefer this to all other species !! Specius preferencis !

I ain't sure what it is but I know it aint a shagbark hickory

elm

River elm !!!

Try driving a nail in it it it bends then we can say hickory. If it has set that long no way to drive a nail without pilot hole.

It is hickory I have cut them by the thousands. Good for handles if not damaged

x2
Mountain Mahogany is good handle too, I have a trim hammer that I put one in ~1964 and it is still as new, used broken bottles to shape it.

I figured I would share this because it has a good identification guide in it for leaves and bark separately. All color photos with really detailed descriptions, was only like $15. Im learning trees because I have never been good at it. This has let my son and I ID every native species out here on the East Coast without any doubts. It also has a lot more info about the tress, but the ID guide with color photos of all the different parts makes it really useful. Its small too.

I'll start mailing you some, but all I have are some old one cent stamps, so you will pay the remainer?
Oh wait! Canada post is still back-logged from their strike so it may take awhile,
I have a 3 foot diameter log in my backyard to mill soon.

Its not shagbark. its white hickory

I guess not everyone knows what the bark of a young shagbark looks like.

Hickory. The saw marks look like a band saw and I would assume cut on a woodmizer, but that doesn’t really fit with the 60 yrs.

I don't think you are the first guy to get a great piece of ash in a chicken coop.

Moosetrot

Cut and burned hickory my whole life, it's most likely shagbark. The color and grain say shagbark, don't look anything like mockernut, pig or white hickory. I have put a lot of identical pieces to that in the stove over the years. Mike

Thanks to all for the valued input. However, nobody made me squirt half my evening toddie out my nose like Moosetrot. Still laughing, man!

jackrock. That little piece of hickory was sectioned on my shop bandsaw. WoodMizer is pickled and put away for the winter.

M.Magis. At this point, I'm still going with young shagbark hickory. I believe you're right after looking through several books and spending a bit of time on the internet. Built a book of scales with it, and built up a knife today from it. Not too impressive on the curlicues and color of the wood, but plenty hard. Will try to finish the knife and post a picture tomorrow.

Swole. I actually have that book and went through it. Still coming up with shagbark hickory. Thanks for the reminder.

Once again, guys, much appreciate the feedback and setting me on the right course. I really like playing with different types of hardwood.

https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=lysLXKXNKubojwSCz6g4&q=young+shagbark+hickory+tree&oq=young+shagbark+hickory&gs_l=img.1.1.0j0i24.51541.53082..55657...0.0..0.279.607.5j0j1......1....1..gws-wiz-img.......0i7i30.NHeN8-iAC_8#imgrc=8suV-qbUrddtMM:
As mentioned before, the tree is smooth at its start but it sheds the bark to get bigger. I have some here and at 6" dia. they already show the scales. Paste the address in a search box to find lots o hickories.

I ain't no expert, but I have been doing a bit of research to try to identify all the tree service wood that I get for free. For what it is worth, these are my observations:

The bark pattern and color are consistent with hickory.

The wood grain is consistent with hickory.

All hickory is supposed to have a five sided or star shaped pith section running through the middle. That, I don't see in the photo, I see some the right color, but, not the right shape. Check your cross sections to verify.

Looks like yellow bud hickory to me! What I typically
Burn with, lots of hands on experience with that type of
Wood. I would about put money on it

Okay. Got a skinner (not a pelter) made from the hickory. In the photo, bottom is a knife with scales from Mountain Mahogany. Middle knife is scales from the hickory that is pictured at the top of this thread. Top one is American Black Walnut. The hickory and the walnut seemed to be about the same hardness. The mountain mahogany is much harder than either of the others.


Jack

Nice lookin knives ya got there

I've worked with hickory and black walnut pretty often and hickory is quite a bit harder than the walnut.

Gulo-When you are working with the Black Walnut I would suggest at least a good dust mask or respirator. Walnut is a wood that can cause some allergic reactions including respiratory problems. You may have already known that but figured I might drop it in as a reminder, just in case.

Nice work on those knives!

Moosetrot

Thanks for the heads-up Moosetrot. I've been reasonably good about putting on a cheapo dusk mask. Maybe look into something a bit better? Working around my sawmill periodically I've found that I get into sneezing fits with lodgepole pine dust. Seems I've developed an allergy to that over the years.

Thanks...

Jack

gryhkl. Yes, I'll go with that. The hickory is quite a bit harder than the walnut. However, both are akin to warm butter in comparison to the mountain mahogany. Trying some 150-year-old apple now, and am surprised at how soft it is in comparison. Beautiful colors, but perhaps too soft for this application.

NE Wildlife. Thanks. Been a fun diversion for a couple of weeks.

T-Rex. Yes. Thank you. Looking in cross-section, the star-shaped pith segment is obvious. I'd not seen that identification hint anywhere else. Thanks.

Sick-a-more dust gives me the most fits.

I brought in two loads of firewood that looks just like that. The tree was not small or young. We call it smooth bark hickory. But I know nuttink lol.

Is the MT mahogany avialable commercially? I found some 3/4x3/4x5" pen blanks and some end pieces online. I would expect, because of the way the tree grows, that there are few large pieces.

From my reading it sounds like an interesting wood.

gryhkl. I've never seen mountain mahogany commercially available. The problem I'm having is that it is riddled with bug galleries, and a real pain to find sections big enough for knife scales that don't have bug holes. Seems that the root wads, however, have the best color and are largely bug gallery-free. 6-inch diameter is about as big as it gets in my country, but I've heard of monster-sized trees in northern California in the Sierra's. What are you looking to do with it?

I use small pieces of wood that has good color and figured grain to make jewelery for my wife. Some hard woods are so close grained that they can be polished to a shine with little more than super fine abarasive paper and a little wax.
If interesting pieces are big enough I sometimes resaw and bookmatch them for the top of small boxes and use the cut offs for small pendants or earrings.

My interest in the Mt mahogany is mainly because of it's hardness and the fact that I never heard of it before-let alone tried to work it.