The Weiser defenders

I see that the last Weiser lure thread got locked. I can't quite figure that one, since there were several people that had not received orders from him. I would hope this would be a great place to bring this to light so that other members don't get duped out of money and time. I was wanting some more input from all the guys that were on here defending him. I'm now up to a month waiting on a lure order. I paid for it with pay-pal, so the money was good. $300 worth. I thought I'd give it another week or so, which I have, and I'm still out my $300 and no lure. So I'm looking for suggestions from all you Andy lovers. He won't answer my phone calls. He won't answer texts or messenger. He won't reply to comments on his daily Facebook posts. So what do you suggest now? I have received several messages from various places saying I'm not the first or only one to have these problems so I'm open to suggestions.

I sure hope you can get your money back, or hopefully your order. I think you at least provided a public service, by letting people who aren’t blindly loyal have some insight on a supplier about their lack of customer service and poor communication. It will help when others decide where to spend their money.

I think in the locked thread, someone said they let Andy know people where “running him down” or something like that. Maybe they can contact him again and get you your order or a refund.

Wow, that don't sound like Andy. I know he has had some health issues in the past, I hope he is ok. Sorry OP, for your predicament. Have you considered that he may not be well? Anybody out there that may know and can help the OP out?

I've always had great dealings with Andy. It seems odd reading all these negative posts

Customer service goes a long way in todays world....this reassures me that I make the right decision every time I place an order with the few trapping suppliers I deal with....no contact after a month is unacceptable...sorry to hear about this and and maybe he is to busy but a simple message to acknowledge or letter in the mail would be better then nothing..

I locked it because the horse was dead, everyone knew it, and it was still getting kicked.

Why don't you file a claim with Pay Pal and get your money back?

I wondered that same thing.

Great idea!

You did not say what type of Paypal payment you used. You should be aware that if you used a credit card, you can indeed contact your credit card company and they will reverse the transaction which will charge the person on Paypal a 35 dollar fee. If you utilized your bank, your bank will reverse the transaction and restore the funds. For Paypal funds, you can file a claim or phone them up and see what they say is covered.

I feel for you as all of us have gone through this stuff. From this point on, make sure you have transactions covered by financial institutions which will handle things for you. For Christmas I ordered some things out of China on Ebay. Big mistake as this is the second time a fraud manifested out of China. Ebay though restored the money.

Andy always treated me good.

same here . I think he has top notch service. something is wrong , im sure he will correct it

I guess I am just another Andy defender...I can't imagine he would stick anyone..has to be something else going on..

Just file a claim to get your funds back and get your lure elsewhere. Good guy or not, it's just bad business. Hopefully the guy is healthy and just swamped.

.

IMO one of the very valuable aspects of this website is that it helps trappers know who they can buy from with confidence. There have been several venders over the years...from fur buyers, to board makers, to whatever, who were well known as "great guys" but yet were flat out cheating some/many of their customers. They got vetted here, over the whimpers of outraged buddies, and now everybody knows and can deal with those vender, or not, accordingly.

Likewise, other venders have shown from how they deal with complaints on here that they can absolutely be trusted, and would go to great personal inconvenience to make sure their customers are treated right, everytime. Thankfully, that list is much much much longer, and everybody is well served by this information.

Whether the OP can get a refund from paypay is NOT the point. He shouldn't have to!!! He shouldn't have $300 hanging out there for a month without the decency of a response. And he's clearly not the only one. I bet those of you complaining about him coming to this forum for a resolution wouldn't just roll over if you were the one wronged. Having exhausted other forms of communication and being ignored, this deserves to be posted and it deserves a response, and the fact that there is none is something fair for all to know..."great guy" or not.

X2

Innocence until proven guilty should be paramount on your mind. As I respect the OP's dilemma, I cannot condemn someone, especially with great reputation, who may have fallen ill. Keep the tar boiling, but have the decency to wait until the verdict is in.

This whole thing kinda saddens me but..
I've followed Andy's post for years and have always seen him as a stand up guy.
I WILl give him the benefit of the dought for now just hoping he's ok but if it shows he's been posting on other sites or Facebook during this past few weeks, I will loose all respect.
And I would do the same to my best friend!

300 dollars worth of lure. I haven't spent $300 on lure in my lifetime. Must be good stuff.

I'm not calling for anybody to bash or convict the vendor in question. I'm just saying leave those asking for a response alone and let the facts play out.....

I messaged his partner a week ago and she said he was “out of bags” and that several are waiting. He knows darn well what’s going on. The only fools in this are those that keep sticking up for him.

www.montanatrapperbags.com
Why don’t you just go straight to the source if bags are what you want? I’m sure John will be more than happy to take care of you.

That's a lot of lure.

Because he has $50 worth of castor that I sent him plus a check (the whole story is in the original post)
https://trapperman.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/6401673/weiser-western-lure#Post6401673

That is being severely tarnished at this point. It's a lot harder to build a good reputation than it is to destroy one.

There are three sides to every story.

2 dealers have called me I don't know why they called me but both have been taken by Andy. And It's not just a few bucks It's In the 1000s.
I don't know if these issues have been resolved or not.
Andy knows what's going on and since he hasn't come on this site and explained this issue I'd be very carefull In dealing with him.

I met Andy once and made a barter deal with him. He seemed like a straight shooter to me but It looks like I was wrong.

Seen it first hand at a convention, wondered when it would happen again.

Are you trapping many coyotes? I'm like you, spend very little on lure, but if I was a dirt trapper the lure bill would go up.

Iv bought from him, good dealings.. somethings not right... more to the story?

It don’t take much lure when all you use is a moose hide scrap for bait

I purchased Andy’s coyote dvd a while back and received it in a timely manner. Planning on purchasing his coyote bag since some have rated it as the best out there. However, will hold off for now to see what is going on. Hope all is okay with him.

Whats wrong with giving every potential customer a heads up that they might get taken?300 bucks is not a small amount of money to try to recover.

This thread should stay up until there is a resolution.Like said,maybe there is an explanation?

I guess your right Boco, but I think there is a better place to resolve this.. just my thoughts.....

When this man repleys, pay attention. I hope Andy mans up and makes thing right.

i think you are right but going about it the wrong way here.

All I’ve known of Andy has been good

That being said, it looks like multiple people have not received what they paid for. These people have called, messaged and etc without a reply. So I’m not sure why people would be mad that the people who have not received their goods would post on here? They tried dealing with him personally but apparently are not getting any reply back. Why are the people who have not receivedgoods they paid for suddenly the bad guy?
I surely hope it is all some sort of mistake. Or that Andy makes things right. But can’t blame someone for trying to get back what is owed. Assuming all that is said is true

I'm as shocked as anyone else, REALLY SHOCKED!

Always had great dealings with him in the past so understand the many supporter's he has, he does sell great products.

But he's not sick, isn't in the hospital, etc, etc. He's been posting on facebook daily while all of this was going on.

No doubt many have reached out to him on there as well to find out what's going on, I'm sure he's well aware of post on
here and still crickets! I can't defend that. Just sad to watch yet ANOTHER top notch trapper go this route, whether he
makes things right or not the damage is now done to his reputation.

agree unfortunately

I've always had good luck contacting Andy through his business email.

Have done some business with him in the past and was satisfied. I spoke up in his defense.
I was contacted by a person that I have a lot of respect for and he told me his story. The guy that contacted me got screwed big time for a lot of money.
I was saddened and I felt bad that I had unknowingly stood up for that type of behavior.
I was dead wrong. Sorry I ever said a thing.

This kind of thing happens more than a lot know. A while back I was contacted by another friend on here that had been swindled. He had trusted a big name lure maker. Met him at a convention with about 3 five gallon pails of glands. (May have only been two pails but I do not remember.) The big name did not have enough money or check book with him or some other excuse and my friend trusted him. He never got paid, even after several contacts.

There are men I know that I would hand my wallet to and trust them with it. But, there are very few of them.
There men that I know that I would trust my life with, and this group is mighty small. But there are a handful.
It is pretty bad when a trapper - another and takes advantage of trust. It is unfortunate that we have arrived at a place that it seems you have to be very careful who you trust. Very unfortunate.

Johnny Thorpe told me an interesting story when I spent time with him. Back in the fur boom he spent a lot of money for a large lot of fox urine from a well known dealer that has the reputation of being a bit difficult. The urine never came and the money was gone.
About a year later Johnny got a letter from the guy that explained the extremely difficult times he had gone through with a divorce that affected every aspect of his life. His old lady had spent a lot of money coming in. This guy apologize and said he felt bad about the situation.
Also the letter contained a check for the funds Thorpe had sent. Johnny said he had a lot of respect for the guy from then on out.
I share this little story in hopes some others might get the idea about being stand up and doing the right thing.

Sorry to those that have been taken advantage of.
Mac

I have no clue what is going on with Andy or why. Never met him, but came to have a lot of respect for him through this site. Purchased from him, and encouraged others to do so, because of the trappers on this site. I trusted those around me, to help guide me in the right direction, meaning those on this site, since a LOT of my trapping education has come from here. This site has been an excellent source of information and has helped thousands make contact with each other. Andy has had a huge following, and a lot of that following comes as a result of what has been said on this site. Many of the orders placed with him come through this site. This site has been used to reach out and help Andy when he needed it during his time of crisis. If there is any appropriate place to air a grievance, to seek resolution, to clear the air, it's right HERE in my opinion. To benefit from this site, and all the men and women who make this site, then bow out, and have his friends defend him and attempt to shame anyone who only seek answers they've been unable to get on their own, it's SHAMEFUL! Especially since it's coming from many of the same trappers that have encouraged others to order from Andy. So what if he's trapping, so what. He's having a negative effect on many lives in this trapping community. That is unacceptable, unless maybe, he's your friend.

How long has he really been around? Where did he come up with this lure business. Did he buy someone out?

Who Is this John that someone said Is his partner? If he has this so called partner why hasn't he come forward?

I don't remember about his medical crises, was It real? Did any of you sit at his bed side during this crises?

Is this some type kind of a con job? lots of con jobs are set up In just this fashion.
Something Is rotten In Demark.

Thanks for all the replies and comments. For those that commented about getting money back from Pay Pal, I have filed a claim but they can take up to a couple months to get anything done. I am waiting on that right now.

Andy's been around a long time. I met him at a trapping convention about 15 years ago in Miles City, MT. He had a booth and was just a small time lure business guy back them. His business just really started to boom once he got on social media and started to go to trapping conventions in the past 3 - 4 years. I'm not sure what's happened and it's too bad things have come to this.

I don't believe John is his partner. John Wilson makes the Montana trapping bags but customizes a bag for Andy to sell under the Weiser name. So they have business relations but not partnered up to my understanding.

Andy is a great man. Not sure what is going on. I visited him in the hospital when he had his heart attack. Just my two cents worth.

I buy/order a fair amount of trapping gear and lure, but have never bought any of his goods. I highlighted some of his lure in my wish list over at MTP for next seasons use.

Just typing his name in my browser brought up quite a few distributors of his products. I wonder how long this can go on before those distributors decide they don't want to be associated with this brand. It's a small world. Don't press the self-destruct button.

I understand the situation here a little clearer now than I did earlier, but unless you have more information than what you have presented here or what others have presented here, speculating that he is intentionally pulling a con with his lure business might be going a bit far IMHO. If you have information that directly points to that I understand your warning. Remember why Paul locked the first thread; the horse is dead.

only 48oz or so.

That’s still a lot. Enough for how many sets? Maybe including some bait?

I never trust anybody that's too friendly.

That's a good start.I doubt if it will take that long but that money will be frozen and can't be accessed by the seller.Maybe it will be easier to get your stuff to you quickly than take that hit.Good luck with it.

Yep..When I purchase I look at at the reviews..this one has quite a few 1 star ratings

I sure hope Andy makes right on all his dealings.

I got hit also, but he did eventually send our order. He never did call me back but he did text me to say he was skinning coyotes. I ended up using FNT until our order came in.

I hope he can get himself back up on his feet. I would probably not believe most complaints, if we didn't get blown off ourselves.

If you like his products but are wary about getting burnt, order from a distributor who carries his line. In most cases the pricing is the same as buying direct.

Why are we ordering stuff from guys that are busy trapping in the middle of the season?

Exactly what we did. Maybe that is the route Andy will go. I only used him directly because I thought he would get a tiny fraction more proffit.

He could have the best products in the industry, I wouldn't support someone who is taking people's money and burning them. I think I'll stick with giving my money and supporting good honest people in the industry.

That's It In a nut shell.

Nearly everyone of the suppliers are trappers. That is not a valid excuse unless its done like Lee, and he tells everyone he won't deliver during trapping season. Customers are more important than trapping, at least if you want a good reputation and future business.

Amen

And bigger fools who have an axe to grind keep picking away . He has no partner

Has anyone contacted him on Facebook about this post, Im sure we would all like to hear his two cents. Don't hang the man before the trial.

They better question would be why are they selling stuff if they are too busy to fill orders...

I always wonder the same thing, a guy that I bought my bait business from said " get ready they will call you up just to hear you breath" . Ms. V and I still laugh silly about it. That said she is way better at sales than myself. " I guess I sugar coat stuff or something like that. Good luck to all involved.

Im sure andy will make it right. I do see on here and the old thread other people makeing there own sales pitches

His silence speaks volumes about the man.
I'm out of here.

Life happens it's too bad things go this way, but it seems like a revolving door with lure makers once they hit the big time. I've only met Andy once in person but I can say I never felt like I got a sales pitch thrown at me. From what I could tell he was a stand up guy. This day and age though there's no excuse for not keeping customers up to date on issues you're having especially if you're still accepting their money. That's just bad business. I know he's been very active on the line this year and it looks as though his last login here was in October of last year. Maybe Andy just wants to be Andy again. Can't really defend him with that many issues though as him and his new trapping partner (she's a gal from Nebraska) having been posting multiple times daily on Facebook.

I have certain people that I buy lure from these days that I can rely on, and their product speaks for itself (I usually don't drag their names into these types of threads, but he already posted) Travc gets my business every year. He's up front about when he can get to the post office as he's killing coyotes year around, and I am fine waiting as he's dependable. Certain lure makers you can't even put into a light that doesn't align with heaven (see what I did there) without a thread getting axed with legitimate concerns. I remember a cowboy named Casey Payne taking the lure business by storm for a year or two, and then poof he's gone.....I'm glad some posts such as this one get to go through because what it all comes down to is I am spending money on a product, and it's like anything else in this world I'd like to know up front what I'm doing.

I've worked around a number of criminals in my lifetime, and the last six I've spent with some of the best Nebraska has to offer in the prison system. Some "lure makers" guys off the street trying to promote a product and even a few of the big names have swindled more money out of honest people than many of the inmates that spend 23 hours a day behind bars. I know a lot of people won't like my opinion but I guess if I can't say what's been my experience I don't have much left to say. The trapping world specifically a good number of lure makers most of which are born in a garage (and about three of the big names I cancount off my head) are some of the best con-men I've met. It's sad I have to say that as trapping is really a big part of my life, but it's about as corrupt as any enterprise I've been involved in.

wow

I've Ordered from Andy more then Once... Everytime I got my order ,in addition almost always something extra. Did some take longer then others yes... I Never worried about it, cause I usually order before trapping season starts. Some of the Best Coyote Urine I've purchased period, always concentrated. Its Montana's trapping season and the guy is no doubt busy laying steel for coyotes and wolves.
Andy's lures can be purchased on a few vendors websites , You should expect this to be his slow time if Ordering Directly IMO.

Pretty much.

Here are some tips........

Pay by credit card. If he gets over 1 percent chargeback, they will close his account

Turn people into the BBB , although they have no power, sometimes they can scare someone

Next , turn them into the attorney general. They have unlimited power. If someone gets 3 or 4 complains, defrauding the elderly or disabled, they don't play around.

You could also be dealing with mail fraud. Postal inspectors have the right to turn off someones mail box if fraud is going on, you can file a complaint with this department.

Unfornately a lot of these things are used against honest people, by crooks to get free stuff, and also by competitors to smear others reputations. You can easily make a million online nowdays in sales selling mid range consumer products if you put your mind to it. With the big profits , comes some creative competitors and shysters.

Also.. you could call the local sheriff or police department. If someone is ripping off the elderly, they pay special attention to that.

Call the person up, let them know your rights. If they won't make it right after that, unfortunately small businesses are very vulnerable. I once had AMEX tell me, if you go to a restaurant, and return the leftovers in a bag, AMEX would give you a refund.

I had a lady do a chargeback on me, she bought a coffee Pot. She did a charge back stating it was up on a shelf 12 feet high, and she could not use it. They took my $, and I never got the product back. This happens over and over with online businesses. It's very rough.

There are a lot of other nasty things you can do, but.. I won't even go there.

Personally, If a well known lure maker ripped me off...I would find him at a convention, and settle up there.

Has he been dealing with my fur buyer?

Well put.....yet there are still those that defend this him and lay blame at us who have lost funds. I don’t get it.

not defending Andy but are you in the lure biz big sky?i figured Andy would have made you eat crow by now.i don't know all the details which i believe are many but nothing i hate to see worse than infighting amongst ourselves.

PCR2 I have some traps for sale. Send me your money but I'm not going to send your traps..Think you would have a different view if it happened to you.

I know guys on here that have been taken for more $ than what we are talking about on here and handled it with more class than how things were done on this thread. Calling people names on a public forum.... come on... unjustifiable by grown men for any reason in my book.

not defending Andy at all and feel bad for those that got took.just hard to comprehend someone isn't what you thought.by the time this finishes trickling down i believe we will see just how bad this situation is.BAD.i couldn't believe it at first and thought it was just a peein match but not anymore.

once in a while i guess you have to beat that dead horse.

I ordered some bait from Andy a couple years ago, and it took a little longer than it should of to get here. Fortunately, it wasn't trapping season, and when Andy sent it, he threw in some lure to "make it right." I've bought a lot of supplies from MTP, Schmitt Enterprises, Jade/Jeremy Cumberland, and the Kaatz Bros. If I put an order in with these companies at noon, it's on my door step by 2:00 PM the following day. Granted, I'm in the region, and they use SpeeDee delivery, but companies like these set the example for customer service and public relations. Wade is correct, in this day and age, individuals have no excuse not to send you a text, email, or make a phone call...it's completely unacceptable. I also understand Andy's a trapper, but if you're going to trap during trapping season, and you have a business, you need to hire someone to fill your orders or shut it down until season ends.

Be good to people, be honest with people, and be respectful of people. Andy gets no sympathy from me.

I deal with mn trapline products so would never get scammed but why don't you guys drive right to his house? I would think that be a good starting place. Obviously he isn't responding on here

Didn't you take the same approach towards me just a while back over a June post? I believe you did.

If called you name I will sincerely apologize for it. But I don't remember it and seems out of character if did. I'm sorry if I acted that way and would be completely be in the wrong for it.

That's pretty "stand up" in my opinion. Way to lead by example Yes sir. Rational thought and discussion keeps things in perspective.

No problem.

Dont understand why a man would destroy his own business and livelihood. His product is great and now I'm afraid to order anything. I also wont order 3rd party until all debts are filled and a legitimate explanation comes out .

X2

x 3 , ive never been more confused about someone in my life. From past dealings on multiple things ALL of this totally out of character for him, just doesn't make a bit of sense. But what does make sense in this world anymore?

Sometimes several times. Sounds like he’s cutting his own throat.

In Montana we have a saying....dont talk about people behind their back. Public forum is a perfect place to call him out. It is called tough love. And I hope he can humble himself enough to take less than one minute to login and say, "get lost". He has one minute. Stop the grinders, if you don't have time to respond.

The order I bought directly from Andy, wasn't my money, it was my son's hard earned money. The boy is twelve. Defenders, we are treating Andy like Hillary. There is no honesty and decency if we can't rise above all that. My son remembers donating to help Andy with his heart attack. Tough one to lie about.

No matter what.....he Does have one minute

sad

if no names had been involved it woulda taken me a month of guessing before i'd of ever thought about his.

live and learn,still sad though.

.

PCR there is no fighting amongst ourselves that I am seeing. What I see is people that are defending a man that has a good reputation based on his reputation alone. I am also seeing a fellow trapper try to save his comrades time, money, and a headache down the road. In my opinion more of these posts should be allowed. I cannot understand why lure makers are not held to the same standard as anyone else selling a product on this forum. We have a trap shed with negative/positive feedback. We expect other trappers to look out for us on trap dealings why not on lure/bait dealings. I'll be the first guy to say I find Andy to be a very likeable guy, but at some point you have to sift through the issues.

There's guys that have been in the business for a number of years that have good customer service, they are reliable, and they have an excellent product. You won't see them post on this posting because they are smart enough to stay out of things like this. Then you have the lure makers which in my opinion have rode their likeable personalities, wits, and reputations into the sunset all at the cost of trappers below them. I had a very visible back and forth with a lure maker a while back, and I was told I was being out of line because he had a great reputation etc. Behind the lines I was covered with inbox after inbox regarding the situation but no one would speak up in public, and I am sure the original OP has had the same experience. Heck my inbox is already flashing from my posting yesterday. I've come to my own conclusion if it seems to good to be true, God is brought up in defense in every argument (not saying I don't or you can't believe in God) just saying he shouldn't be used as an object to throw around in every argument, or you have to thump your own chest to do business I am not the right customer for you. You can look back in this post and right out of the woodwork some come crawling.

Now you can say I haven't bought lure (yet) from Andy so I don't have anything to say. That's wrong I am on the guys side that had the guts to put it out there. He's not crawling around in inboxes talking behind people's backs he's letting it all go out public. I only buy probably $150 worth of bait/lure from one person every year. I don't have 10 lures in my bag. I pick one outlet and it all comes from them. I appreciate the fact that issues get pointed out before I make a purchase for next season. You might gaf at my measly $150 I am looking to spend but when you're raising kids, working full time jobs, and going to school for your post-graduates degree full time a $1 is a $1. You take around 100 trappers like myself that are probably looking at that original post, and changing their minds about ordering product that one post alone saved a lot of people headaches until this thing is cleared up.

agree

I wouldn't drive up on his house. He has a weapon or two. And if he isn't quite stable........Not alot of cover around there. No one knows. Not worth the foolish risk. He will need to help himself first. We just pray for him as of now.

I'm not joining the dog pile nor defending Andy as I've had no dealings with him.
But, something ain't right!

No it aint. You can do this Andy! Come on man! Get up, and keep on keeping on. You have some great stuff!

I will add, I was only stating my personal buying experience, couple pages ago..
I will never defend someone who is doing others wrong... Carry On!.

from what i've saw here and been told elsewhere i don't believe he'll be able to turn this around.sad but i will pray for him also as a fellow man.

I don't have a dog in this fight and don't know Andy but it's seems like there has to be some extenuating circumstances that has led to this rapid demise on customer service and now unfortunately- personal creditability. Too sad.

Handle it the old fashioned way.Face to face-Man to Man.
I seem to have read on here that that guy does demos at the NTA.

Agreed, I don’t think he is staring into the fire rubbing his hands snickering to himself over ill gotten gains. Wish you all the best, no one likes being taken. And I wish Andy all the best as well. Hope everyone can see their way out of this.

I avoid most problems like this by buying in person.generally,I order the goods, and pick them up at conventions.I sell some frozen goods at times, except for 2 times, they are delivered in person, and im payed in person.I have had numerous persons that wanted to buy frozen product from me, and I refused to ship it.So they didn't buy it, and I didn't sell it.
No headaches, and no loss of reputation.

good idea phil

Can't Boco. Most laws are enforced by the left now. Most police departments are unionized. Blue state mostly. Getting down in the ditch with him, won't help us. I'm staying clear of the MTA for now. The out of state guys are starting to make it unpalatable. Your gonna get some one in trouble here Boco. Andy isn't a big guy, and he has heart issues. Some young victim might just take it a little too far.

Goodness! I don’t think BOCO was suggesting violence. I took his statement to mean, go talk to the guy face to face. Meaning to solve the issue, one on one.

This forum is a great place for responsible people to express themselves responsibly. This whole thing started by someone trying to resolve an issue responsibly. At least I took it that way. The issue has been brought to the light, people have been informed there is an issue. It sucks that people have spent money and not gotten what they expected in-return. It sucks that Andy's friends defended him when he wouldn't defend himself. And, I don't mean in ANY way that those that defended him suck. Those are the kind of friends a lot of us wish we had. They're the real deal. What sucks is that they found themselves in that position. It sucks that Andy appears to be making bad decisions for his own life, and that is negatively affecting many around him. I see this thread as more of an intervention attempt on Andy's behalf. I don't wanna give up on him. I don't want others to give up on me. It's time for some tough love, not revenge.

Like said it does not make any sense with what is known just think about what it IS and what it could of BEEN, weigh that out and is does not add up? No dog in this either just looking at the practical side of how it could play out.

The fact that Andy has not responded, when he has almost assuredly heard of the issues and that he is letting things continue to fall apart, leads me to believe that he is likely suffering from severe depression. It is the most logical explanation. I hope he pulls things together and makes things right with the people he has mistreated.

Depression can be crippling and make even small things seem insurmountable. Depression can make very capable people feel incapable of anything.

Keith

Just like that stretcher guy from out east, big popularity contest on here. Things aren't going good, guy falls behind people complain about lack of service. And then they get bashed on here for being honest about being unhappy with the results. In the mean time the defenders of either guy probably really don't know the guy very well anyway.

Personally skeptical of most guys who just seem to be instantly in business. Had my doubts about the guy who seemed to do the most promoting of his business.

I'm not putting this up as a "defend Andy" post. Simply a bit of perspective from my point of view. Sorry if this offends anyone.

I'm not privy to all the information here, other than to say that it looks like Andy is treating customers very poorly. I don't know any of the details. Over the past several years, I've seen many posts on here suggesting or referencing the "T-man brotherhood". Generally, in my opinion that is a good thing. We need to stick together like brothers and sisters for the betterment of fur trapping and the continuation of the trapping legacy. I'm saddened by the lack of response from Andy.

Last spring, I got an email from Andy asking if I would do a demo at the NTA Western in Livingston. Well, I'm somewhat of a non-social person, and generally don't partake in those sorts of big group gatherings, so I waffled a bit. A week goes by, and I receive a large box, stuffed with various lures and urines. It was a bribe, pure and simple. It was from Andy. I'm pretty sure he did this in an effort to get me to agree to doing a short demo at Livingston, and I'm pretty sure he did this without getting paid by NTA to cover the cost of the lures and the shipping charges. He did it for trappers.

A friend of mine has a wonderful wife and she was going through cancer treatment. This friend told me that Andy called their place constantly, just to check up on her and show his concern and support. He did this for months.

These two little tidbits, to me, speak of a very stand-up guy. Like I wrote earlier, I'm saddened to see the apparent decline. Until I know a few more of the details, I guess yeah, I'm defending the man. On the other hand, I'm not defending his recent actions.

Jack

No , 2 MONTHS on PayPal to get your money returned to you about 10 days Max , you first have to open a case , then depending on the severity of your Case , you can Escalate to PayPal Customer Service , they will make a decision , in your favor or the sellers favor , based on what you say when you Opened Your Case then Escalated it to PayPal Customer Service what you Say , you can also Call PayPal and they will Escalate your Case for you , You'll get your money back 100% of the time if you Paid for Goods and Did Not Receive those Goods !,

You may be correct, but I was not able to get a refund from PayPal for items not received. Simple as this: I paid for something with PayPal. The item was never received. The seller claimed the item was shipped. That 's about all I remember except I never received the item and I never got my money back. This happened to me TWO times maybe I would have had different results if I would have pushed harder, but my time is worth more than the lost money. About once a year I have ordered from Montana and never had a problem, but no more of my money will be going there.

According to his Facebook he's on the line right now and not at home.

If your time is worth More than the loss of Your Money , then you may be in the future giving away ALOT of money , it is always been a 2 step process with PayPal and even your Bank to get your Money returned to you from not receiving your Goods , possibly you paid as a friend then in that Case you will Never get your money back . When Cases are Opened on PayPal whichever party is the defending one usally the Seller , PayPal locks there PayPal Account until the matter or matters are resolved .

But hey if you have money to give away without fighting to get it back , you're going to loose ALOT of Money in this day and age .
Yes IT IS a Pain In The Arse , but you gotta do it IF you want your money back . It's America .

Wrong answer, learn who is trustworthy and do business with them. MTP for example, year round I have my orders from them within a few days. When they forget to send something (it happens) an email or phone call will have the missed item in the mail immediately. I buy lots of stuff from Amazon and again another place where I don't need to worry about lost or missing items.

PayPal is a 50/50 chance of getting your money back. I ordered from a decal place in Kentucky when I started my company and they sent me and empty envelope. I called them they said it was a mistake and they would mail my items out and 1 month later from them dodging my calls and emails I filed a claim with PayPal and they showed a tracking number to my location for the empty envelope and I was denied my claim. Pay with credit through paypal now not a bank account.
As for Andy its a sad deal. When I first read all this I had my doubts but after seeing that he has been on Facebook and posting its hard not to believe that he wouldn't hear of this and defend his reputation if he wasn't intentionally avoiding these guys. I do like some of his lures but I think ill be buying from the guys that are known to follow through with sales, too many of them to waste my time with stuff like this.

Please don’t get him started on “lost” or “missing” items.

I think Andy is Rutting right now.

. I don’t give a darn if it’s 10 dollars worth of lure or 300? If the guy got ripped off that’s the point.

I can say for having a "Heart Attack". Hes still going hard this year trapping.. Looks like hes been up for Days in a Couple Pictures on the Ol Book of Faces. Did All that Money buy some "Go Juice" for trapping?

Hmmm Beav all them Questions you posted.. Those Last 3 Sentences are starting to Make sense....

If it where me who was ripped off and essentially stolen from . I would be calling everyday. If you really want to get his attention try calling at 3 am local time . I would push push and push some more until my situation was cleared up . I'm the kind of guy who can't let it go when I'm done wrong though. Not very Christian like of me but we all have our faults. Lol

.....oh great news, things should get back to normal after a month.

Has anyone confronted him on facebook? especially if he's on everyday?

This is not to defend nor to blame - it's speculation. As I recall Andy had a heart attack a year or two ago and needed help with expenses. If that is true it means he was not a wealthy man. After reading this thread my GUESS is that Andy encountered some kind of problem that caused him to get behind both timewise and financially, to the point that he does not know what to do. If that is the case it is of no comfort to trappers who have lost money and/or gone without needed supplies at a time when there are no trapping days to waste. Sure he should communicate, but then what? Make promises he cannot keep? Let's try to give him the benefit of doubt until we find out what really happened. Just my half penny's worth.

He knows without any doubt. I don't Facebook myself.

I think if he'd just talk to folks . That's kind of the crux. If he'd communicate , I feel a lot of this would've been resolved. It can be hard to discuss a "failure", but can be done.

I sent him a Facebook message to let him know about this conversation.

Let us know what he says back to you.

i was surprised to see cancellations to the Texas predator school on another site.bad for those guys too i bet.

Gulo, ive got similar story's about Andy, why all of this has me so puzzled, is WAY out of character the guy!

I could understand if it was sickness, etc but the facts he's on facebook having the time of his life out on the trapline
makes it appear at least to me he could care less about all of these problems as well as bigger one's I'm aware of
that are not posted on here!

Like other's I gave for his health bills as ive been there too and everyone on here came to my rescue so I was just
paying it forward but I think all of that support he had from so many on here is what make's this issue with him worse
than if it were someone else!

Wish I still had Facebook .

Ok,not really

Pcr2 the two cancellations in the West Texas Predator Control School has nothing to do with Andy,just two gentlemen from Ok decided they couldn’t come.

exactly

thats good news,great guys there.

I didn't comment on this before now, because I like Andy. Years ago, he was looking for a rare trapping book, and I found a copy for sale, and replied to his post about it. Well, in the hour between when I posted, and he went to buy it, someone else from here had got there first and bought it out from under him. So I was shocked when I got a box full of lures from him a short time later... I'd not ordered any. He told me it was for finding him a copy of that book, even though he didn't get to buy it in the end! His lures worked well, and I've been a customer since then, with no issues at all.

I hosted the auction for Andy on here a couple years ago, that has been mentioned. A whole lot of people raised a whole lot of money for him during that time. He called me afterwards, thanking me.

About a week ago, I messaged Andy on Facebook, and asked if he knew about this thread. I was sure he already did, but was hoping he would give me some sort of explanation as to what was going on. He has not replied to it. He HAS , however, been on Facebook everyday since.... posting pictures of catches, scenery, joking around, acting as if nothing in the world is the slightest bit wrong.

The whole thing makes NO sense. If you're gonna rip people off, you think you'd fade away into the sunset, not keep posting daily elsewhere like everything is A-OK. I don't understand. I'm sure at this point, his business is ruined, but I hope he least makes things right with the people he wronged, for his sake as well as their's.

I bought some lure and urine about $250 if I remember correctly. Satisfied with products and service. Wouldn't know Andy if he walked up and introduced himself to me.
Sorry that things have gone sideways for all parties concerned. Hope it gets worked out.

About a week ago, I messaged Andy on Facebook, and asked if he knew about this thread. I was sure he already did, but was hoping he would give me some sort of explanation as to what was going on. He has not replied to it.


Nice way to treat someone who raised nearly 30 grand for you!

Has anyone actually talked to him and heard his voice? I hope he is ok.

30 grand?sounds like a lot of suckers out there.

Glad you deleted your comment Tom. You can’t honestly continue to be a blind sheep.

He didn't I did.

It sure had me scratching my head.

Looks like the last post from Andy on Facebook is January 19.

He was on FB two days ago.

Well good for a moderator I thought it was a pretty biased comment.

Naw, he posted on Feb 7th

Geez. Kinda hate to log in here on this thread and not see Andy's name replying.
I'm gonna make a prediction based on quite a few similar circumstances I've seen on several different hunting forums over the years.
He will not respond to this thread and those outta $ will not see it come back..
The fall from grace is very humbling, way more so when self inflicted.
But I REALLY do hope Andy well and he can ( and will) overcome his demons.

us

$300 is not lunch money. If he has been on facebook, then it looks like he could respond to emails, calls, and messages. If a person don't have time to do business, then said person shouldn't be in business. Regardless of reason why, someone shouldn't take or need 4 weeks to get back to a customer. Sounds like he would rather be a trapper than a business man. If he is gonna do both then maybe he should let someone else handle the transaction side of things. This is unacceptable in any other kind of business. Why would a trapper supply be any different. Just my 2 pennies

folks,the fact this thread has been allowed to get this far should speak volumes.

I don't do facebook but why hasn't anyone called him out on it over there? Is there any evidence that he actually had a heart attack or just told all you that to take your money?

Guess all my posts about crooks and bait makers comes to light huh?

What percentage of his business do you suppose TM folks comprise? With so many other places to spend my trapping money, I can't see risking my money with someone like this.

Ok? I'm not seeing it. Lots of posts by others on his feed.

He responded to one of those posts on the 7th.

Kinda puts a taint on the whole internet buddies thing aye?

Surely a couple can roll over there and help?

Internet friends or real friends? Trust?

I hope he's ok and the folks that got the theft by deception come out ok.

He also made this post on the 7th:

Andy Weiser
February 7 at 9:19 AM ·

They say when the going gets tuff the tuff get going. I say the older i get the less i like this kind of cold. Coyotes are moving. Came back home for more cloths. Lol. first 6 snares had 4 good coyotes. Should be a good days run.

Boy I am glad I lost my faith in humanity many years ago. Sad that such a close knit community can have someone like this take advantage and not care one single bit about those affected. No excuse to do this to other people! I sure hope nobody else gives him their money.

That's the post I was referring to, Lugnut.

I believe several people visited Andy at the hospital after his heart attack.

Weird. I can't see that post at all, Lugnut. It's not important, I just couldn't figure why people were saying he was posting every day.

His setting are set to only share things with his friends, so if you're not friends with Andy, you'd not be able to see it.

Yeah, if your not friends on FB, you'd only see his profile picture updates.

Well thought for awhile he might be taking a dirt nap not sure what to think now. I do remember a certain trap manufacture business he also made lure and instructional videos and books going on the lamb in the early 80s. left me and a lot of other folks hanging, sad because he made one heck of a trap still using them today but never got my last order and it was in the $100s of dollars. rumor had it he went bankrupt and fled to MT.

Yeah that Paul Dobbins would get an ear full from me !!! I'd mop the floor with him for sure... grin:

BUT, I have never had to do that because he always ships the backbreaker and bait solution out promptly. Man that Backbreaker is good stuff too!

I emailed Andy about getting some of his coyote urine and he never replied to me. I have purchased lots of bait, lure and urine from him over the years but if he can't reply I am done placing orders with him. He seemed like a stand up guy. He must know about this post or a friend of his and he should have responded to this by now. It looks like his business is done.

I don't know, if it ever came to that Paul is a pretty good size fellow.... Eat your wheaties, and Prayers sent, Lol.

Pauls leg is bigger than me and i aint no runt.

Those of us who've trapped several years and dealt with people in the trapping industry have seen it happen too many times. I don't feel bad for anyone who scams other people, especially trappers. I'm also one who generally donates to trappers who fall on hard times, house fires, health issues, etc. Glad to say I've always been a wiser (Weiser) skeptic and skipped out on donating to his "heart attack" fund or buying any of his products. Hopefully the folks who are still defending this piece of work will realize they're peeing straight into the north wind.

Haven't and won't read whole thread. So I appolagize if this has already been covered here somewhere?

1st. I've ordered from him with no issues.
2nd. Crap happens from time to time. Even to the best of us! So I'm not sure if there is a reason he needs to be defended. I only say this because it seems your title is putting those down who would defend him?
3rd. You should be able to recoup money through PayPal!

PayPal will also lock any future payments to him if there is any repeat occurrence that might indicate fraud or habitual wrong doing.

you should read the whole thing,may learn a lesson--i did.

i started collecting some urine this year while holding coyotes. very small time . . . but, butchering red meat to feed coyotes, keeping pens clean, and collecting and straining urine is straight work even on a small scale. so if he is collecting urine on large scale all as part of a front to scam people, he could make a lot of money putting that energy elsewhere. hate to hear stories like this, for all parties involved. it's a lose lose . . . well lose lose for Andy and the people who were ordering from him. could be a push for someone who had 8-10 gallons of winter collected urine from meat fed coyotes looking to peddle some here or there

bur, shoot and freeze rabbits till your ready to collect don't gut them skin them or anything else. feed a half rabbit a day per coyote. chop em in half with an axe and feed still frozen. coyote will stay a bit hungry and eat them readily frozen. they wont bleed frozen and coyote will eat hide guts feet tail and all. very natural very healthy diet that produces good pee. frozen muskrat carcasses are good too. lots easier to keep stuff clean. turds will be solid because of the hair and easy to remove.

I have ordered from him plenty of times and it always comes fast. BUT I order before the heart of the season. If I need stuff right now I order Weiser's stuff from MTP as it gets here in around 24 hours. Andy traps for a living and to be able to make the lures and baits and collect urine. How can he be expected to ship and complete orders while trying to make stuff. Yes he could use an assistant but instead of whining on the internet and complaining do something and buy it from a supplier that its their only job to send out orders. Reminder for those that are indifferent about weiser. People are far more likely to complain than they are to give good reviews. So for every bad review there are more great reviews. Also might help to order stuff before season.

What if you run out of said product? Knock a jug of urine over? If your taking a customer's money without adding that you can't fill orders during the season, you are basically stealing.

you should read the whole post

So a guy should just order from someone else if its trapping season ?

How bout the supplier shouldnt take any orders or take any money if he would rather go trapping instead .

This makes the most sense to me.

Oh boy. Yeah I'm depressed, so send me you're hard earned money. Being depressed does not turn you into a thief. Psychobabble to the extreme. How about the guy just doesn't have any scruples. Haven't heard anything from op in a while, any progress whatsoever?

Depression is debilitating. It shuts down every aspect of a persons life, not just their ability to ship lure.

An inability to act in your own self interest is a hallmark of depression.

I've also had good dealings with Andy and really feel bad to see all of this, so of course I'm looking for some reason for it.

We all don't know what we don't know. This pattern of taking money and not delivering or taking product and not paying is nothing new.

Has the OP or the OP’s from the other threads heard anything at all? Any updates?

For those blaming depression, would you continue going to work everyday for months if your employer quit paying you and avoided you?

If he was shut down that would be something to consider. Instead, he appears to be having a wonderful time. It also seems, based on comments, that he continues to interact with some people, while shutting out the same people who helped him get where he WAS. That may be depression. Whatever he's doing, he's depressed a lot of people by doing it.

I know more about depression than I ever wanted to. Depressed people almost always take part in some form of escapism. They continue to take part in some activity or interest and concentrate on it to the detriment of other things they need to do. That can be almost anything from over eating, substance abuse, hoarding, to taking part in an activity like a sport or even hunting or trapping. Depressed people often focus on one or a few things instead of doing other things they need to do.

This does not excuse bad behavior, it explains it.

Keith

Substance abuse makes good people do bad things... just a thought... seen it enough in my own family thru the years.

I'm the OP of this thread. Updates are this. No response from Wieser anywhere. He still continues to post on Facebook regularly. Filed a claim with Pay Pal. It goes through a waiting period to give the vendor a chance to tell his side of the story. Andy did not reply to Pay Pal or dispute my claim, so Pay Pal says I won. But then they go on to say that it may take up to an additional 30 days to receive my refund. I'm assuming that is only if they can collect the money out of his account. If there's no money in there I'm not sure what happens. I assume they shut the account down. Since I started posting a bit about this I'm hearing from quite a bunch of other people that he has stiffed numerous others including other dealers and guys for gland and urine that he bought. Sounds like my $300 is small potatoes compared to what he owes others. Plain and simple it has came out that the guy is a straight up crook.

You that are making excuses for him are way out In left field. If you guys only knew how far this runs and how long It's been going on. But I was sworn to secrecy so I'm not going to say anything more.

Thanks Beav. I think that says enough for me.

A little progress it seems. I hope it is quicker than thirty days for you to get your money.

I'll repeat what I said earlier for the benefit of the younger guys on here reading this post.Be wary of people who are overly friendly when they hardly know you.

Boco good advice...but I have to admit I was sure fooled....

A guy might be able to "mop the floor" with Paul, but I am pretty sure it would not be worth the nervous "tic" you would develop every time you went and started your vehicle.
EOD does not just learn how to dismantle things. LOL

I sent him a message on Facebook the other day-

"HI Andy. I have purchased lure from you in Escanaba so I just wanted to let you know that your reputation is being trashed over on Trapperman. Might be in your interest to go over and read the four pages of comments."

His response - "Thanks for the heads up."

Brian

Depression doesn’t discriminate against only some aspects of your life. If you’re severely depressed, you dont even want to do things that you live. Trapping included, which it seems Andy is doing plenty of.

if pschyco babblers knew half as much as they think they do they would be able to cure a few of the mentally ill. the science is too new. they can diagnose some problems but beyond that they don't really have a clue

I suffered through a bout of depression in my early twenties, it was the darkest period I've ever experienced in my life. If you look at the context of what I was saying you'll see I wasn't defending Andy, I was getting at precisely what you are saying.

I do not wish to take sides in any of this thread and have stayed quiet, but feel I should address this opinion as it isn't always true and could be a dangerous way of thinking if dealing with a person with depression.
I had a good friend that became depressed. He was an avid shooter and even while fighting depression would come to the range almost every day to escape the demons that haunted his mind. In fact shooting with me was one of the very last things he did in this life before the demons got the best of him. While this man was shooting no one would have guessed the troubles he had, but all other aspects of his life had been greatly effected.
Again, I am not referring in any way to the context of this thread, just pointing out that the information above is not always the case. This misinformation could be a matter of life or death if dealing with someone with depression.
Sorry for getting off topic, the comment just hit close to home.