Building Permit: Who came up with this idea??

In one State , they are requiring a Building Permit to install a......

DISHWASHER !!!

It’s all about control of the population and money.

That raises the value of the home. Then they can raise taxes!

You have to PAY to get your permit. That is the only reason.

What state is doing that?

Same people that came up with a dog license

It's to ensure you make a high loop with the drain line so when your drain backs up it doesn't fill your dishwasher with nasty stuff, and to make sure it's wired up properly so your wife doesn't kill herself when she touches it with wet hands. I'm not sayin I agree with it, that's just the reason. They require plumbing permits them here for all kinds of stuff..... dishwashers, garbage disposals, washing machines, drinking fountains, sinks, etc. I doubt most people actually get them.

The real reason for permits is money and control.

The excuse is safety and workmanship standards to protect the ignorant from themselves.

Had to get a building permit to TEAR DOWN a garage. I think it was free or very little $, but I thought the guy from our township municipality was joking when he showed up at my house.

Exactly right.

It really burns me to have to buy permission from the local government to build, repair or improve something on my own property. So, often times, I just do it without their permission.

I have a hunting camp and was tired of keeping my wheelbarrow and tools in the outhouse. Had Amish build me
a rough cut lumber shed and it was delivered finished. Within several weeks I was notified that I needed to purchase a $10.00 building permit
for the shed(by the township my camp is in). Not the money just the principle.

We the people don't like to have the neighbor burn down our city because he has the idea that he can wire the dishwasher adequately just because the hardware store will sell him wire, so we the people demand that safe standards are met to prevent that Idiot from setting his house on fire and the conflagration spreading like the O'Leary cow's lantern did.
Enforcement of those safe standards requires a permit just so that the inspectors know that the Darwin Award Guy is attempting to violate all the Codes and can than check that Idiot Neighbor out and possibly prevent him burning your house and city down.
There is also a property value thing that depends on building standards.

It may not make sense to those that are participating in the Darwin competition but the majority of Property Owners demand protection from that competition. ,

And the Darwin Award Guy is going to bother to get a permit?

Anyone can hire a licensed individual to wire something up. A permit is just another way for the government to rob you.

Probably not, which why hammers, screw drivers and building materials should only be sold to licensed professionals. If you did remodel or insurance repairs in an average large city for a few years you would understand. Without building codes and permits you would not be anble to buy homeowner's or renter's insurance.
I live in the country so if you burn your place it doesn't cost me to put the fire out or clean up your rubble, i therefore do not require you get a permit; but I used to work in a city and i fully understand why the taxpayers would want the protection of codes and permits.

No, the permit is to insure that you do hire that pro or that you do the job in accordance with the codes. Guaranteed that the enforcement inspections and paperwork cost the taxpayers more than the permit brings in.

I do think diy code violators are great for the economy and for years my work depended on them screwing stuff up. It's those property owners and taxpayers that want protection and insurance.

A permit might be necessary for city-dwellers but out here in the country we don't need no guberment man telling us how to do it right!

getting a permit and inspection is cheap insurance

Permits do not always ensure good work. My electrical panel was installed in 2007, with a permit, signed off by the electrical inspector. Electrical codes require all the circuit breakers to be properly labeled, but there are some circuit breakers labeled "pool", when the pool hasn't been in use or hooked up since the late 70's. There are double pole breakers (220V circuits) with no tie-bar on the breakers. There's still knob and tube wiring, with 5 feet of romex coming out of the box hooked up to the knob and tube wiring. There's a shutoff outside by the meter, which technically makes the breaker panel a subpanel, and the grounds and neutrals should be separated, they're not, and there's no ground rod or bonding to the water pipes or gas pipes, or ground wire to the main shutoff by the meter. It's a mess, I'm not sure how it could have ever gotten signed off on.

About a year ago I replaced the main beam and columns in my basement. The old beam was a 6x6 that was so termite damaged I could easily push a butter knife all the way through it, and the columns were the same. I made a built up beam of 2x12s and used proper steel tube columns, with proper footings that I had to cut the floor and pour concrete for. Tons of work, and an enourmous mess, but worth it, and saved a ton of money. I got a permit for it, and when the inspector came over to look at it after I was done, he looked around for all of two minutes and said it was good to go. I did a ton of research and know I did good up to code work, but it would have been easy for him to miss things.

Then why aren't they free? Close by it will cost you about 4500.00 in permits to build a house.

Wonder how they knew someone was installing a dishwasher? I don’t know if my state requires a permit for projects or not...we just do what needs done.

Burn down the whole city? Maybe society (with their group mind ) should have figured out spacing. I am not a license professional and have wired places all over out here. Almost 30 years and no fires yet. No permits either. Wiring is not rocket science.

WHOA!!!!!!!!

So the permit is designed to save you from yourself. As long as you pay for it, of course.

Should have a background check for nails and screws.

A permit for the safety of the public? I think that is as much a myth as Mrs. O'Leary's cow. I am of the "money grab" mindset. One of my oldest friends, a builder I worked for many years ago, always used to belly-ache non-stop about the various building inspectors, etc., etc. This guy was a very good builder, so their was never any re-do type incidents, it was the whole money aspect of things. Well, toss in a few more years and a heart attack......my old pal is now the building inspector for quite a swath of territory! His pay IS the money from the permits, and he said he wishes he went to that job years earlier because it is a much better way to make much more money.
If all I want from life is a tar-paper shack on a little ground, then that is exactly what I should be able to build for myself. It is a thing of the past now. A retired game warden friend of mine always wanted an old timey northwoods hunt/fish camp in the eastern U.P. He bought a great chunk of land along a fantastic brookie stream back in the middle of nowhere....perfect! Well, by the time he'd jumped through all the zoning rules, his simple camp with gas lights and a handpump and outhouse had morphed into a fully AC wired and fully plumbed small house with a driven deep-water well and submersible pump and septic system (read several grand for the well drilling alone). He hated the place. It represented everything he wanted to forget about when he went to his camp. He sold it not too long after he finished it.

I don't advocate permits, or building codes, I made my living for a while cleaning up and rebuilding behind failed idiots. I just tried to explain how codes came to be.

Not all inspectors even know the codes, quite often they get the job by being a Brother in Law. If that bothers you, you should advocate that only licensed tradesmen can become inspectors.

Fact remains insurance companies and majority of property owners believe codes keep standards up. The fact that we have codes and code enforcement proves this is a democracy rather than the mythical Republic.

Personally, I think every body is entitled to burn a couple houses and a few businesses down, just to keep the fire marshals and fire fighters employed and off the regular welfare rolls. Creates jobs cleaning up the rubble and land filling the debris and of course real estate opportunities for the reuse of the land.

My main issue with code is how a lot of it is formulated. The National Electrical code isn't always written with safety in mind... The code making panel is comprised of fire prevention gurus (NFPA) electrical contractors/installers, manufacturers, etc...

I've seen a few things in the code that tell me that some of the methods and materials required by code are the result of people who have a vested interest in selling those methods and materials.

Safety should be the primary motivator, not using some obscure article to force me to purchase extraneous material.

Mike

When my daughter and SIL put a house on our farm I had to get
building permit
well permit
septic permit THEN
building inspection fee
well inspection fee
septic inspection fee
THEN
waited 2 weeks after everything passed and had to call why we couldn't turn the power on
they said we hadn't paid the $3500 IMPACT FEE for our impacting the county
I called and said "this farm has been in our family since 1894 and we are impacting our own personal property"
YEP, they said, send us payment.
CROOKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THEN we had to put a real street sign on our driveway since now there were 3 "domiciles" on the road......so had to get all landowners along our 1/2 mile driveway to agree to a name and sign the petition, which then goes before the county commissioners for approval....BUT THAT WAS ALL FREE

Unions are behind a lot of local codes too. Chicago won't allow the use of romex (at least no more than 6 continuous feet of romex), everything's gotta be in conduit. They won't allow pex either. The electrical and plumbing unions insist on these because it makes more work for them, and prevents homeowners from doing a lot of their own work, not for any legitimate safety reason. Most of the whole country uses romex, and pex has been used in Europe for something like 50 years.

In a township near me they installed bullet-proof glass in the borough office after an irate citizen threatened them.

When you go in there and look to your left the entire wall is covered with application forms for permits for for things like sheds, dog houses, inflatable pools, hanging a sign on your property...

You know, the stuff that could really cause damage to a neighborhood or city if not done right and properly inspected.

Oh Know ! I plumbed three cabins with pex last year after I wired them. Maybe the leaks will put out the fire?

Unions were the ones that got trades licensed in the first place. Much of our daily pita is union related.

When the communists and socialists and fascists take over, you'll find out the pex caused the fires.

tjm ....you got that right!

Building codes and permits have killed creativity subjecting us to live in a world of indistinguishable houses made for undistinguished people. Only the rich can afford to express themselves and distinguish themselves now.

So it was in all of history.

And a waiting period. And a permit to carry them, of course.

I didn't know I was rich?

Did not read all the posts but I'm in a conflict of interest. Our code officer is also the tax assessor.

Cheers! The exception to the rule however does not the rule make, how many fantastic buildings have we missed out on because it would not "meet code", you get my point.

Probably would have been tough to get a permit for the tower and get it approved by the homeowners association. Then the engineers would have frowned on my design, and OSHA would have been all over me for the unsafe things I did building it.

I was always told the reason for Chicago having the no Romex or Pex laws is because of the large rat population.

I've heard a lot of horror stories about Cook County, IL and their codes.

Codes and unions aside... My next house will have conduit and FMC ran throughout... I hate Romex. It's garbage, cheap garbage. MC cable is almost as bad.

I realize not everyone has the time, resources, or experience to wire their own home... But in my opinion once you've spent a few years doing electrical work then you'll understand my hatred for Romex and blue plastic boxes... Lower installation cost is their only upside.

Mike

how did you ever get by without a driveway permit?

I have been dabbling in wiring for 40 years. I could see the hate for the blue boxes, but romex???????

X 2

The blue boxes suck, i use all metal. I've run miles of both MC and Romex. Why the hatred of Romex. I only hate the heavier gauges because 10 and up sucks to work with.

Romex is too easily damaged and it always gets damaged or chewed on in the worst spot when you go to repair.

Romex initially has the low cost and rapid install... But once the wall is rocked, you're hosed if anything goes wrong.
Pretty much the same with MC.

Mike

so you make the laws???

I have one better than that! in our township you have to pay 50.00 per year to work in said township. This was to keep flyby night worker out. I told the township officers that the flyby workers are in here.

The same township I mentioned above with all the ridiculous permit applications and bullet-proof glass used to charge a percentage of your gross job costs as a fee for working there. Not a percentage of your net profits but a percentage of total job costs annually. It was absurd and after several years there was a lawsuit brought against the township by a group of contractors which they won.

I retired from the insurance industry in 2002 and I know there was a question about improvements and the use of licensed contractors. Once sold a policy to a man who was so proud that he did all the electrical himself. In a phone interview with underwriting he told them all the trades he did himself. His premiums were returned and his policy canceled. It was a brand new home. Had another fellow try to file a claim for damages that resulted from shody work by an unlicensed electrician. His home later burned to the ground with his wife inside. We cancelled his policy about six months earlier at the first renewal.

There is no law against ruining your life and property. If you have a mortgage, the lender requires certain assurances as does the property insurer. A building permit usually triggers an inspection. Not a bad law at all. It also insures property is accurated valued for property taxes.

"Cooking is by far the #1 cause of fires in the home. That makes sense. Who doesn't know of someone who's had a kitchen fire and probably had something on their stove catch flame once or twice? Ok maybe I'm not a very good cook, but I think fires in the kitchen are not very uncommon and they can certainly turn into major fires. "

I wonder if insurance should be cancelled, if people cook in their houses?

Around 7 percent of fires are related to electricity. Most are from the stuff plugged in or goofy things homeowners do and some are from old wiring or faulty breakers.

Few years back we added a new build upstairs bathroom, our county zoning officer stop by and drank a beer with us. Never said a word. I owe him one

Could you share what state this is a law in?
thanks

permits exist for one reason. its easier for the county to keep track of value increases and tax people accordingly

Also, the fees involved in obtaining permits is a good source of revenue.

It is not just about fees and money. We had to adopt a building code in our city of 180 souls to keep stupid people that move in here from building stuff they couldn't get away with anywhere else. Stupid stuff. So...now because of stupidity and offensiveness and lack of common sense, the City has to approve any building within it's limits.

An example would be that occurring in the city naturally is that along any street, the fronts of all the houses seem to line up, equidistant from the road. All of the sudden, someone realizes that on their narrow, too small too build on, lot, that they , perhaps, could just build to within a few feet of the street, obstructing everyone elses view, and making it hard to deal with snow and maintenance issues, and giving themselves on outside place to park, off of the street.

That is just one example of why some oversight is needed.

People are stupid and have no common sense, and don't care about their neighbors either.

I am vise mayor in town here and on the city council, and I see first hand the stupidity of average people, especially those folks that think they have "rights". My town is 3 blocks square and has a beautiful creek running through it, and a city park with 10 RV slips in it.

If I had a chance, I would veto the building permit for any section 8 housing that might ever happen as well, in my town, as it brings in a bad element.

There are good reasons to have building permits.

The problem is what may have started off as a reasonable idea tied to a small fee has turned into a massive bureaucracy ridden fundraiser for the cities/counties/townships and state.

It's not much of a fundraiser here, there are maybe 2 permits per year. The main reason is for oversight.

This is not a conspiracy, and the administration of the permit, the little bit of time spent to look at the surrounding area, identify conflicts, or issues, and do any research, falls upon the city clerk, and is over and above the normal work day, so...there is a slight cost of administration that most folks don't see, or expect to be given to them for nothing.

I once asked these same questions before I became involved in city government.

I believe everybody should serve on a city or county board, or other board for which the job is thankless at times, so that they can speak with authority from that perspective.