The Dangers of No Knock Warrants

A Milwaukee police officer was killed last winter when his tactical team was executing a no-knock warrant for some gun charges. He was doing his job. The resident and target of the warrant thought he was about to be the victim of a home invasion and didn't believe they were the police when the unit was outside announcing themselves.

I believe him. Not sure I completely fault him though at the same time I feel he shouldn't get off. I'm conflicted.



I little background. My step father wasn't the most upstanding citizen when I was a child. The ATF and Sheriff were attempting to execute a no knock. I spotted them and thought it was one of my friends screwing around. I opened the door and they stormed in. My mother fought them tooth and nail because we thought we also were being invaded. It wasn't until the sheriffs came in with their windbreaker jackets that we understood they were police. If my mother had a gun that evening she would've used it. And this story would've been much more tragic.

Some scumbags even use this as a weapon against people they don't like or as a joke on their friends. They call in a 911 and claim break-in and when the cops show up and hit the place, misunderstandings have gotten people killed.

i saw a no knock warrant being executed once. have no trust in LE anymore. A man his wife ands 2 kids. Over marijuana seeds. nothing more than thugs playing with guns

No knock warrants shouldn't be allowed, they came about as a result of the war on drugs. There has been to many innocent people killed by this tactic by police, they can't even get the address right in some cases. Even one innocent citizens death isn't worth allowing no knocks, there are better ways to resolve whatever issue needs dealt without killing innocent people.

Yep. No knock raids for non-violent offenses are a joke. If anyone is interested in reading about this subject, I recommend the book Rise of the Warrior Cop by Radley Balko.

I imagine a whole lot of people's dogs get shot during a no knock warrant, since the people in the house don't get the chance to put their dogs away or restrain them. One of my instructors in the police academy, Mike, had the department record of shooting 9 dogs, while arresting people in 6 different houses. I had him over to my house, socially, once and my 2 dogs at the time did not like him at all. Mike had been bitten badly twice and I think he was pretty scared of dogs. Mike once shot a pitbull in the head, that had knocked him down and was shaking him by the knee. The dog had been in the locked bathroom with it's owner, who was flushing drugs down the toilet, when Mike kicked the door open.

Keith

Ill check it out.

About 10 years ago the PD went to the wrong address. Shots were traded and two residents and one officer were injured.

Both officers and residents seem to be needlessly put into harmsway.

What rights?

Mike should have knocked.

It is universally excepted etiquette to knock first, if someone is using the bathroom.

w

They are a bad deal all the way around.

Im not sure you, or some others for that matter, actually know what a no-knock is. You state is your opening paragraph that they executed a no-knock and the person in the house didnt believe it was the police while they were outside announcing themselves?? Make up your mind if youre getting all the cop haters spun up over the right thing i guess.....

Just repeating the news report which was based off a statement from the department.

I'm sure kicking in doors has its proper time and reason. But I think they are probably overused. I'm sure the element of surprise is often very useful - especially if you need to catch someone with drugs in the house. But in many cases I would think knocking first and asking for voluntary compliance would be safer for the subject, the cops, and any other folks who happen to be in dwelling or even in the area. If the subject of the arrest doesn't comply immediately, just surround the house and wait them out. In most cases the subject of the arrest will probably comply peacefully eventually. I'm sure knocking on the door first wouldn't be the best plan in every case. There must be good reason for no-knock warrants in some cases. But I'm afraid they are often used when other tactics would be safer.

I'll bet the coppers have lots of studies and statistics to show evidence of why the no-knock warrants are needed.

Im sure there should be a exemption if they are terrorist building bombs or should the feds be polite and knock. There is no perfect world and there is a reason for a no knock and they judge does not hand out the paperwork for one without due process, again it is not a perfect world.

Who pays for the busted up doors?

A guy here at work had his door kicked in by police. He was at work when it happened - nobody was home. They were looking for his sister's ex-husband who was (and still is) a murder suspect. They confiscated my co-workers guns while they were in the house. They sent an officer here to work to let him know that his front door is not secure.

He has to pay to fix his own door. I don't know if he has his guns back yet or what the process was.

It doesn’t take an assault team to deal with a dog

When doing a no knock warrant after the door is breached law enforcement officers are identifying them selves shouting. But yes they can and do go wrong

.Happened to my daughter and 3 year old granddaughter in the middle of one night. Police had the right house number...wrong street. That was an experience they will never forget.

I'm going to get a few details wrong because I read the article many years ago.

Guy rents the basement apartment in a house. Police raid the house in the middle of the night looking for the owners, not the basement tenant. The police did not know the basement was a rental unit. Guy hears the ruckus upstairs, does not know what's happening upstairs and gets his handgun ready. He finds a place to hide in the basement, and points the gun at the top of the stairs just in case.

After a few minutes, the police kick through the basement door and 12 swat team officers start down the stairs. Tenant does not realize they are police since they are all in black and did not announce who they were. He shoots the first 6, killing one of them. The wounded and others return fire. Over 100 rounds fired by the police, two hits, neither lethal. 36 rounds fired by the tenant. 1 dead officer, 5 others wounded, all retreat up the stairs.

Seems like a very bad idea. Surveillance and patience and you can just pick the guy up in the Walmart parking lot tomorrow.

They should not be allowed. To many stories of them hiting the wrong house. They should be held accountable for that. Hitting the wrong house is the same as breaking and entering.

My wife comes from a rough family, her grandfather has spent over 30 years in prison all for selling cocaine, one night when my wife was 5 yr old and her sister was 3, the police came looking for one of the family members, they kicked in the door without saying a word and my wife's 3 yr old sister just happened to be walking by the door when they kicked it in, it knocked her across the room putting a large laceration on her face that required a lot of stitches. She's carried the scar her whole life. So they are definitely times when innocent people are hurt. And the guy they were looking for was not there.

No knock warrant/assault team raid, should only be done with cause to believe a real threat exists. Not just because the cops want to scare everybody in the neighborhood half to death and play with their toys. Risk the lives of the people they claim to protect, because they think a family man might be smoking marijuana. If they assault the home of someone looking for a real bad outlaw, that isn't even there, its time to fire people and have a judge remove their enforcement credentials. Plenty of jobs out there. This militarizing of law enforcement is not a good thing.


END THE WAR ON DRUGS> IT AINT WORKING

There is a time and place for a no knock!



From a former door kicker.

For cops to end up at the wrong house says they are not familiar with the place, and must be working off some bad tips from their drug user friends.
Its a bump in the road that needs to be fixed. A danger to kids, yes. Probably not the danger the drugs, particularly meth, is to your kids when you have dopers in your neighborhood. Not only do cops make bad hits, but when there are dopers in your area, they have enemies within their market franchise (so to speak) and in order to keep them out they hire thugs to put the fear in them and sometimes they get the wrong house.
If you haven't ever had to deal with a meth head, try it you, you won't like it. Try renting a house to them unknowingly, besides constant traffic all night and all the crazy things they do is unbelievable. Would even an insane person try to catch anhydrous ammonia in a open 5 gal bucket? If they could get rid of the dope then all other crime would drop. Stealing to support their habit is a big one, besides car wrecks.
Somebody needs to smarten up on their house raids.

Yup. Same cop hating crap I left this sight for. If you guys don’t think the judge issuing the no-knock doesn’t take all factors into consideration you obviously have no idea of how your legal system works.

Been on countless NK warrant services and just to inform you there are VERY rigid criteria on identifying as an officer. Cops are not slipping through the house like ninjas or cat burglars. Lots of yelling identifiers and very clear instructions. We know what risk is involved and if there are not significant threat issues there is no grounds for a NK. I have logged back on for a grand total of less than 24 hours and ready for another couple year hiatus.

Foxcatcher no clue what goes on where you are. None of what you said is true here. except for the yelling and big firecrackers. scaring people and getting them angry. trespassing and trying to order people around on their own properties. out of control reckless and senseless. who cares if the madman running around dressed in battle gear is yelling police officer? is that supposed to make it all ok? what do you do if your up against a dangerous criminal? what I saw for a guy less dangerous to the health and safety of the community than a mosquito looked like a raid on osama's compound.

In my daughters case, it was local police. Instead of being at xxx East Hamilton Street, they were at xxx West Hamilton. It had nothing to do with a bad tip. The police just goofed up.

The one I watched was in 2000-2001. Whole neighborhood complained to the sheriff. The sheriff tried to blame the chief of police in the county seat who was blaming the sheriff. Haven't seen anything like it since and still cant comprehend how men who took a job to provide for public safety could have done such a thing. That was the day it dawned on me that there was a real and valid reason for the 2nd amendment beyond just protection from thieves and rapists.

I haven't read any comments of anybody cop hating.

Ha, read anything posted by danny clifton, whose experience is 19 years old yet he seems tk be an expert in law enforcement.

You do if you want a new door.

I wouldn't let some cranky old buggers get you all riled up.

Truthfully, I think most here would like to learn more about the factors the judge considers when issuing the warrant and what risks/threats the police evaluate when deciding on the best way to serve an arrest warrant. Instead of getting upset and defensive, you sound like someone who could help us out by dropping some knowledge on us.

It seems to me that even if the cops come in yelling instructions and shouting their identification as police, all the yelling and shouting by multiple individuals would only add to the confusion and panic of the people inside. Honestly, if someone busted down my door and came inside yelling orders, I don't think I would immediately surrender and comply just because somebody was shouting "POLICE" and wearing a vest with those words printed on it. That's just the kind of ruse I would expect a home invader to use.

There was an incident a few months ago in the city I work where some goons busted in to their dealer's house screaming "police!!!", they were there to steal weed and money. The dealer's woman got shot and killed on the mayhem.

The fact is that there have been multiple "no knock raids" (NKR's) that have gone way, way wrong, even if the majority of them are necessary and well executed. It's a pretty big deal when an innocent person's house is "stormed" and people and pets are hurt, or killed, in the process. It isn't "anti-police" for free people to be concerned about actual happenings perpetrated by government employees that are so potentially destructive...it is plain common sense to the draw back and do a risk/reward assessment.

If the judge takes all factors into consideration then how can a NK be issued for the wrong address ? Maybe not real stringent oversight by the judge? It is a fact that wrong address are raided and innocent people are killed every year, that's not hating on the cops that is undeniable fact.Not to hard to figure out how to fix the problem but to some people that is just the cost of doing business.

You are laying in bed asleep with the air conditioner running and at 2 in the morning you hear your door busted open and guys with guns yelling and shouting. You've been startled awake out of a deep sleep and what the cop hears as " yelling identifiers and very clear instructions", the innocent homeowner hears as unintelligible screaming by home invaders. At this point both sides are amped up on adrenaline, no good is going to come of this. A lot of guys on here are going to reach for a gun, you are protecting your family after all. Home owner gets shot or maybe cops get shot but whoever gets shot it's a needless tragedy for the families affected because of a NK at the wrong place. This exact scenario has happened every year since NK's were allowed and I for one think it's time to do away with them. Too many things to go wrong and innocent people end up dead as a result. If that makes me a cop hater so be it.

I thought you were a cop K52?

Nope, not me. Retired brick and stone mason.

The county sheriff used a state swat team to serve a warrant in Palisade NE a few years ago. A town of about 200 people.

If somebody busted down my door

in the pitch dark dead of night, screaming bloody murder

It wouldn't end well for them, or possibly even me.

But that's the chance we'd take.

w

Safer to just burn em out like waco.

As stated before. A no knock search warrant has to be signed by a judge. The judge gives the police permission to conduct a no knock search warrant. The judge. Not the police. Be upset with the judge that signed it. He violated your rights, not the police. Vote the judge out. There is a reason it is a search "warrant". Warrant's are issued by judges in this state. Police lying or stretching the truth on the affidavit that the judge reads is another issue.

Yes the police ask the judge for a no-knock because they feel compelled to protect their fellow officers from some sort of perceived threat if they stand outside the door for 30+ seconds giving someone inside time to prepare their last stand, but wouldn't you in the same situation?

I feel that many of you are more upset with what is probably some dishonest or over-zealous officers writing bad affidavits. Or it could be the judge is a bad judge. Plenty of those in my opinion.

Either way, no-knock warrants have a time and place. Anyone that wants any sort of real tactical advantage can see that. The world isn't all rainbows and butterflies. Nor is it peaceful.

just hope they get the right address....next time!

Some judges read every word of a warrant application, and some don't read any of it and will sign whatever is put in front of them. Police prefer the latter, of course. I've heard this with my own two ears directly from officer's mouths.

I had 2 sheriff deputies at my door early in sat morning bfore ita convention , ssy had 911 disturbance call, I ssy I only one hear an ask question abput neighbors, an domestic stuff, I put hand on my pocket, I thought was go get shot, cop reach for gun, they believe me an left, I was late for convention as kinda wondering what go on

Good grief, it seems like just yesterday you were spewing about cop haters, and just like then your wrong again lol. It's called a discussion.

Here’s where I’d have an issue, I don’t care what they’re screaming...I’ve done nothing wrong and would assume YOU ARE NOT THE POLICE and just someone breaking in. But then again I’m good friends with most of the Deputies in my little town and I’m sure they’d just say they’re stopping by for some sweet tea or something then take me down, lol.

I read most of this post and am not sure what everyone is saying. I know one who is on a swat team. They don’t even show up until the suspect is at location.
As far as flushing drugs down a toilet for dumb. Don’t they realize their sewer line been plugged up already

Also the police have knocked on the door b4 and they have the place surrounded b4 he shows up

Hey it sounds to me like some officers are not following protocol?

Eight special agents from Portland and Salt lake ATF wanted to bust the door down and enter my FIL home.
Thankfully as a courtesy the ATF contacted the local sheriff, ( and not the police?)The local sheriff couldn't convince the ATF of my FIL likely innocence

So another method was tried, About the time the bust was going sideways for the ATF the local Sheriff stepped in with deputies.
Kind of a big no-no.

There were some major ATF mistakes all along, understandably thinking my FIL was guilty. We were just so grateful of the sheriff departments interference.

Kind of funny at Christmas an ATF jacket was sent to him,.. he wore it for years

A friend of mine is a retired police detective. He was involved in a no knock raid of the wrong house many years ago. On the tip of one drug user informant, they got a warrant for the wrong house. They charged in the front door and found a mom sitting at the breakfast table with her 3 year old. She tried to shield the child instead of following instructions and ended up with a broken arm. Apparently, it was immediately obvious to everyone involved that this was not the house they were looking for. The detective who had originally gotten the warrant knew he was going to be in some trouble and started tearing the house apart looking for anything to justify the raid. The rest of the police stood around not sure what to do. He found prescription insulin syringes in the fridge and charged her with possession of syringes or some such thing.

She walked away with a pretty big settlement.