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Question for the muzzleloader people.

Posted By: 10bands

Question for the muzzleloader people. - 07/12/19 01:11 AM

When you’re looking for the best load while at the range, how often do you swab the barrel and what do you use to do it? I’ll be using a pure lead bullet with 777 and pyrodex RS for now.
Posted By: varmintshooter

Re: Question for the muzzleloader people. - 07/12/19 01:25 AM

If you ever change powder Triple 7 is the cleanest I have ever shot and it shoots the closest to black powder. It even sounds better when you shoot.
I run a soapy rag through the barrel and then a dry rag. Then I shoot a cap before loading.
Posted By: Nessmuck

Re: Question for the muzzleloader people. - 07/12/19 01:29 AM

My combo fits so snug...that I run a wet patch soaked in Windsheild Washer Fluid...after every shot....followed by a dry patch in my Flintlocks....and I use Goex FFF powder.
Posted By: midlander

Re: Question for the muzzleloader people. - 07/12/19 01:47 AM

Switched over to Blackbox 209 many years ago and never looked back. When I first started working up a load, I would swab ever few rounds. When I narrowed it down and really started dialing it in, I swabbed after every shot, then one patch of bore butter, then two dry patches, then shoot. I wanted a load worked up and in the barrel exactly how it would be while out hunting. It was worth the time and expense of doing it right....I am extremely happy and confident with that bugger..!
Good luck with yours!
Posted By: bowhunterks

Re: Question for the muzzleloader people. - 07/12/19 01:57 AM

I use TC bore cleaner after about 5 shots when at the range i can usually tell when bore is getting fouled I use pyrodex RS select
Posted By: gman

Re: Question for the muzzleloader people. - 07/12/19 02:13 AM

My TC fifty will go a lot of shots--30 plus- my side by side 50 has to be swabbed out after 2 shots in each barrel-the 3rd shot without cleaning will be way off......
Posted By: Snapped Trap

Re: Question for the muzzleloader people. - 07/12/19 02:14 AM

I'm in the same practice as Nessmusk with the use of Goex FF black power.
Posted By: Nessmuck

Re: Question for the muzzleloader people. - 07/12/19 02:19 AM

All you guys shooting round ball and patch ?.....or Sabots or Maxi bullets ?
Posted By: Snapped Trap

Re: Question for the muzzleloader people. - 07/12/19 02:21 AM

Round ball w/ patch.
Posted By: Nessmuck

Re: Question for the muzzleloader people. - 07/12/19 02:24 AM


Originally Posted by Snapped Trap
Round ball w/ patch.


Shooting a Flintah ?
[Linked Image]
Posted By: 10bands

Re: Question for the muzzleloader people. - 07/12/19 02:27 AM

I'll be shooting maxi's from No Excuses bullets.

This rifle was very accurate back in the late 80s early 90s with goex and bullets from the Buffalo Bullet Co. They are out of business now and goex seems to be hard to find so I'm hoping to regain that accuracy with these bullets and one of the newer powders.

It's a TC Hawken 50 that my dad bought as a kit in the late 70s. I put it together in the mid 80s and we both killed our first elk with it and a couple deer as well.

I've tried some other bullets in the last couple years but haven't got the performance I was used to. Maybe I need to try harder to find Goex.
Posted By: Snapped Trap

Re: Question for the muzzleloader people. - 07/12/19 02:27 AM

You bet ( PA Pellet 50Cal.)
Posted By: midlander

Re: Question for the muzzleloader people. - 07/12/19 02:28 AM

Barnes bullets
Posted By: Snapped Trap

Re: Question for the muzzleloader people. - 07/12/19 02:31 AM

That's a pretty smoke stick you got there Nessmuck,45Cal.?
Posted By: Nessmuck

Re: Question for the muzzleloader people. - 07/12/19 02:37 AM


Originally Posted by Snapped Trap
That's a pretty smoke stick you got there Nessmuck,45Cal.?


Yes Sir !
Posted By: Snapped Trap

Re: Question for the muzzleloader people. - 07/12/19 02:39 AM

Slam any deer with her.
Posted By: Nessmuck

Re: Question for the muzzleloader people. - 07/12/19 02:40 AM

Originally Posted by 10bands
I'll be shooting maxi's from No Excuses bullets.

This rifle was very accurate back in the late 80s early 90s with goex and bullets from the Buffalo Bullet Co. They are out of business now and goex seems to be hard to find so I'm hoping to regain that accuracy with these bullets and one of the newer powders.

It's a TC Hawken 50 that my dad bought as a kit in the late 70s. I put it together in the mid 80s and we both killed our first elk with it and a couple deer as well.

I've tried some other bullets in the last couple years but haven't got the performance I was used to. Maybe I need to try harder to find Goex.


If your shooting Maxi Bullets....swab it when it starts to load Hard.
Posted By: bowhunterks

Re: Question for the muzzleloader people. - 07/12/19 02:41 AM

Round ball with patch 100grs of pyrodex
Posted By: Snapped Trap

Re: Question for the muzzleloader people. - 07/12/19 02:46 AM

A little heavy on the powder are you bowhunterks?
Posted By: bowhunterks

Re: Question for the muzzleloader people. - 07/12/19 02:50 AM

nessmuck I never heard of using w/washer fluid before does it clean the bore out good ? I take it that it doesn't cause any problems to the gun barrel
Posted By: Nessmuck

Re: Question for the muzzleloader people. - 07/12/19 02:52 AM

[Linked Image]

Don’t have to swab my .62 cal Smoothbore....shooting bare ball......and sometimes a patch,depending on my mood.
Posted By: Snapped Trap

Re: Question for the muzzleloader people. - 07/12/19 02:56 AM

Ah, she's a pretty one.
Posted By: bowhunterks

Re: Question for the muzzleloader people. - 07/12/19 02:57 AM

Been using 100grs for years. Just what works best for me, seem to get better accuracy at that amount.
Posted By: Snapped Trap

Re: Question for the muzzleloader people. - 07/12/19 02:58 AM

What ever it takes bowhunterks.
Posted By: Nessmuck

Re: Question for the muzzleloader people. - 07/12/19 02:59 AM

Love the Smoothy.....load it as a shot gun for rabbit and Turkey...partdrige...or Round ball for Deer ,Moose, bear......as they say a Smoothy will take Mice to Moose.
Posted By: Nessmuck

Re: Question for the muzzleloader people. - 07/12/19 03:03 AM

Originally Posted by bowhunterks
Been using 100grs for years. Just what works best for me, seem to get better accuracy at that amount.


What kind gun yah shooting ?
Posted By: Snapped Trap

Re: Question for the muzzleloader people. - 07/12/19 03:03 AM

I send my 50 cal. round ball down range w/ 75gr. FF Goex.
Posted By: Snapped Trap

Re: Question for the muzzleloader people. - 07/12/19 03:04 AM

PA Pellet.
Posted By: Snapped Trap

Re: Question for the muzzleloader people. - 07/12/19 03:07 AM

My friend has a black powder 12ga. I've took turkey w/ it.
Posted By: bowhunterks

Re: Question for the muzzleloader people. - 07/12/19 03:08 AM

50cal T/C Hawken
Posted By: Nessmuck

Re: Question for the muzzleloader people. - 07/12/19 03:10 AM

Originally Posted by Snapped Trap
My friend has a black powder 12ga. I've took turkey w/ it.


Are you a Native Yinzer ?
Posted By: Snapped Trap

Re: Question for the muzzleloader people. - 07/12/19 03:12 AM

How long have you owned that Hawken?
Posted By: Snapped Trap

Re: Question for the muzzleloader people. - 07/12/19 03:15 AM

Native
Posted By: bowhunterks

Re: Question for the muzzleloader people. - 07/12/19 03:15 AM

Around 25 years
Posted By: Snapped Trap

Re: Question for the muzzleloader people. - 07/12/19 03:20 AM

Hang on to her, they are a good rifle.
Posted By: Marty B

Re: Question for the muzzleloader people. - 07/12/19 03:23 AM

Originally Posted by 10bands
I'll be shooting maxi's from No Excuses bullets.

This rifle was very accurate back in the late 80s early 90s with goex and bullets from the Buffalo Bullet Co. They are out of business now and goex seems to be hard to find so I'm hoping to regain that accuracy with these bullets and one of the newer powders.

It's a TC Hawken 50 that my dad bought as a kit in the late 70s. I put it together in the mid 80s and we both killed our first elk with it and a couple deer as well.

I've tried some other bullets in the last couple years but haven't got the performance I was used to. Maybe I need to try harder to find Goex.



Goex isn't that hard to find.


https://www.grafs.com/goex

You could probably scratch up some buffalo bullets too if you looked hard.


https://www.gunbroker.com/item/809551112
Posted By: Marty B

Re: Question for the muzzleloader people. - 07/12/19 03:27 AM

https://buffalobulletindustries.com
Posted By: mask bandit

Re: Question for the muzzleloader people. - 07/12/19 04:43 AM

I have been using 409 house cleaner for the past 25 years. In my flinter , I plug the touch hole and squirt some down the barrel , them I cover barrel hole with my thumb , turn it upside down about 6 to 7 times , then let it set for about 5 minutes. Dump out the old and suit some more down barrel and do it all over again. Then clean it out , sometime I put some on the cleaning patch to make sure it is clean. After it is clean and dry I take a patch with break free oil on it and swab it real good , then in 1 or 2 months I run another patch with break free on it. I shoot black powder only , I have cleaned 22's and shot guns with it to.
Posted By: Lugnut

Re: Question for the muzzleloader people. - 07/12/19 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by Nessmuck
My combo fits so snug...that I run a wet patch soaked in Windsheild Washer Fluid...after every shot....followed by a dry patch in my Flintlocks....and I use Goex FFF powder.


Similar here but I use a patch soaked in rubbing alcohol after every other shot.

65 grains 3F Geox, .15 patch and .49 ball.
Posted By: Lugnut

Re: Question for the muzzleloader people. - 07/12/19 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by Marty B
Goex isn't that hard to find.


It's not but it is not nearly as widely available as it used to be. Several places that no longer sell it (including Cabela's) told me it was due to insurance company changes in the storage requirements.
Posted By: 10bands

Re: Question for the muzzleloader people. - 07/12/19 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by Marty B

Well look at that. They’re back. Now if they just had something to sell.
Posted By: GREENCOUNTYPETE

Re: Question for the muzzleloader people. - 07/12/19 02:11 PM

we shoot mostly patched round ball but I have shot Lee R.E.A.L and Hornady Great planes bullets also.

If I am reloading in the field to start tracking a deer , I just dump powder and put down another conical or patched ball I can get away with that 2-3 times never really needed any more than 2

if I am trying to make nice little groups on paper I clean.

in our youth muzzle loader shoot we shoot from 25 to 100 yards patched round ball. the max powder charge for the kids is 60gr , why 60 because if you double charge your still only at 120 and safe for most all muzzle loaders.

you can get to 100 yards on 60 grains there is drop but it works. learning how to handle that drop and wind without having to have a 200 yard range is also a part of the lighter load and it doesn't hurt cost either

at 25 yards I typically run 30gr of black it is all that is needed to punch targets at 25-35 yards

targets and what you want to hit are generally small in this game so trying to be as accurate and consistent as possible over a shot string of 12-40 rounds is important.

getting back to a clean barrel is the most consistent as there is really no way to measure the amount of fouling and it changes based on the humidity of the day. so I will run patches till the patched jag slides as easily as it did the first damp patch in a clean barrel.


before loading we pop 2 caps down range , find a blade of grass on the range to pop the 3rd cap at to make sure I have good pressure at the muzzle form the cap , telling me I have a clear and open flash channel.

then run a damp patch. listening for a good his from the nipple also telling me that the flash channel is clear as is the nipple. if you pull your patched jag from the muzzle and get a pop you have vacuum and the nipple needs checking it is plugged.

measure and drop powder , from the measure , then a lubed patch and ball spru up. start it with the short starter , run it down using short strokes do not put your hand high or over the end of the ram rod.


patch lube / cleaner you can use many things , saliva works so if you like to chew on dental gauze go right ahead wad up that cheek with patches

we use 1/3 rubbing alcohol , 1/3 hydrogen peroxide 3% , 1/3 Murphy oil soap and this works well or patch lube and cleaner it is some times called Friendship speed Juice other times it may be called moose milk there is much use of common names for things in muzzle loading even when it may be several different actual products in the details as long as they do the same thing.

however when I think Moose Milk I think water soluble cutting and grinding oil and water . I have been using Napa cutting and grinding tool oil part number 765-1526 and run it about 10 parts water to 1 part oil.

I haven't noticed any real performance difference and cost is very similar to the 1:1:1 ratio of peroxide, alcohol and oil soap

my hope is that the moose milk with napa cutting tool oil helps some with corrosion but I wasn't really having any problem with corrosion with a good clean and lube any way. I am mostly trying it to try it.

on Hornady swagged balls there is not spru so load them how they lay.

I typically run a 0.015" patch and a 0.490" round ball but every gun varies in bore size so try different patches till you find one that you can start with out beating up your hand but gives you a good fit into the rifling and seal.

I like to run FFFG black in everything , currently using Shuetzen we did a group buy and purchased a 25 pound bag then broke it down into our saved cans. this is the supplier I use http://www.addictedtoblackpowder.com/product/
check your state laws in WIS we can have 50# per person but with no more than 50 stored in one place. in IL I think they can only have 5# move or store max.

Typically unless you have a very long barrel only around 80 gr to 100gr of black powder can burn in a barrel and the rest of it is smoke out the front. work up a hunting load , loading the same way and increasing powder charge till you hit your book max or loose accuracy then go back to the last place you had accuracy

subs like 777 are a bit different but even with them there is a point where you get very minimal increase in velocity and just more smoke , Ideally we would have a chronograph and find the load and load procedure with the most consistency in velocity. but since none of that was available to the late 20th century and still not a tool everyone has , shooting groups on paper from a good rest will tell us what we want to know withing a decent level of accuracy.

make sure you shoot many distances , patched round balls when they loose steam start dropping very quickly , you may be perfect for a 50 yard shot and inches low at 75 yards

when I am done with a range trip I run several damp patches till they come out nearly clean then go home and cleaning is easy.
Posted By: Nessmuck

Re: Question for the muzzleloader people. - 07/12/19 03:10 PM

Pete.....^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ your good at typing
Posted By: GREENCOUNTYPETE

Re: Question for the muzzleloader people. - 07/12/19 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by Nessmuck
Pete.....^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ your good at typing



hopefully that is a good thing , although my wife would tell me my punctuation and grammar is lacking.
Posted By: 10bands

Re: Question for the muzzleloader people. - 07/15/19 04:23 AM

Went and shot it today. 90 grains of 777 and a 420 grain No Excuses bullet. After getting it in the middle of the paper I backed up to 100 yards and swabbed after each shot and ended up with a 3 shot 3" group. Pretty happy with that. Now as soon as my shoulder heals up I'll go do it again. cry

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
Posted By: danny clifton

Re: Question for the muzzleloader people. - 07/15/19 10:09 AM

Quote
When you’re looking for the best load while at the range, how often do you swab the barrel and what do you use to do it?


I have only shot 2f goex and pyrodex p in mine. ( bought the pyrodex for a pistol and decided to try some in the rifle) With goex I can get by swabbing out the barrel with a product called moose milk by running a wet patch then a dry patch every other shot, but swabbing between every shot gives a tighter group. With the pyrodex I just keep shooting. Clean completely when I'm done shooting. I shoot patched balls. The patch thickness has a bigger impact on accuracy than the charge IMO.
Posted By: waterwells

Re: Question for the muzzleloader people. - 07/15/19 12:02 PM

I use Mr Flintlock on my patches and for cleaning ,then ballistol .
Posted By: GREENCOUNTYPETE

Re: Question for the muzzleloader people. - 07/15/19 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by 10bands
Went and shot it today. 90 grains of 777 and a 420 grain No Excuses bullet. After getting it in the middle of the paper I backed up to 100 yards and swabbed after each shot and ended up with a 3 shot 3" group. Pretty happy with that. Now as soon as my shoulder heals up I'll go do it again. cry


a 3MOA group with Irons , plenty of people would be very happy with that from a cartridge gun.

my old load was 90gr 777 and a 410gr Hornady great plains flat nose and got very similar results. then they quit making that bullet.

the penetration was near end to end on a deer , shot 3 with that load before they went to only the 385 hollow point it does very similar but I don't know what they dropped the 410gr

the no excuses 420 looks similar to the 410 great planes , the Hornady GP is a swaged bullet and yours looks cast then sized.
Posted By: Nessmuck

Re: Question for the muzzleloader people. - 07/15/19 02:03 PM

When I shot cap locks ..decades ago..I had a 50 cal Lyman with peep sights and at 50 yards off the bench with 75 grains of FF and a 325 grain Maxi....my 5 shot group looked like a clovah Leaf...iam serious. Peep sights are deadly !
Posted By: tjm

Re: Question for the muzzleloader people. - 07/15/19 05:39 PM

Do you use ballistol .with gun powder or just with substitutes? I read once that mineral oils and black powder/gun powder were incompatible?
Posted By: GREENCOUNTYPETE

Re: Question for the muzzleloader people. - 07/15/19 06:05 PM

Originally Posted by tjm
Do you use ballistol .with gun powder or just with substitutes? I read once that mineral oils and black powder/gun powder were incompatible?


they normally are if you use ATF , many gun oils or motor oil you develop a hard fouling but the very light weight water soluble oil balistol as well as many cutting and grinding oils don't seem to be an issue especially when solution with water.
Posted By: TraderVic

Re: Question for the muzzleloader people. - 07/15/19 06:07 PM

I shoot a Lyman Great Plains rifle, 54 cal.
In my round ball barrel, my target load is 60 gr FF Goex with a patch and round ball.
My hunting barrel is a fast twist (1:32) for shooting conicals. My hunting load is a 435 gr Maxiball over 100 gr 2F Goex.
Between shots I'll run a spit moisened patch down the barrel.

Nessmuck....nice rifle and smoothbore musket (or is it a trade gun?)

Green County Pete......perhaps you should try decaf 🙃
Posted By: TraderVic

Re: Question for the muzzleloader people. - 07/15/19 06:15 PM

Fat fingers anyway.....supposed to be an emoji after my last comment
grin
Posted By: illinideer

Re: Question for the muzzleloader people. - 07/16/19 11:39 AM

I have a 54cal Cva Hawken I swab the barrel out about ever 3rd shot. I use a 50/50 mix of windshield washer fluid and denatured alcohol. 90 grains of pyrodex rs and patched round ball. I also shoot a 50cal cva optima inline 90grns Blackhorn 209, 300gn 45cal xtp(non mag) and a harvester crush rib sabot. Been real happy with blackhorn 209 I shot it around 15 times in a row to see how the gun would load and accuracy. Last shot loaded as easy as the first and consistent accuracy
J
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