.300 Black Out

Who likes it and need your opinions. Good or bad. How does it perform on deer/ hog size game? Ar-15 platform? Reloading isn't an issue. Thanks, Sarge

I did a fair amount of research on the matter before ultimately settling with the 6.5 Grendel as a deer cartridge in the Ar15 platform. If I wanted a .30 caliber in that platform, I would go with the 7.62x39 The BO just has not got the powder capacity to give it the horsepower needed.Even a heavy for caliber 223 with say a 62 Grain TSX will be above the BO .... Just my 2 cents worth.

While I am sure someone will say it’s the ultimate deer round I am with scuba on this one

I concur. I like the 7.62x39. Had one in a ruger 77 once. It was tack driver with the right handloads. Up to 150 yards, deadly on deer. Shoot'em through the lungs, run about 50 yards and start to wobble and tip over. Thanks for the help. Sarge

I haul a H&R break action single shot youth model in .300 AAC in my truck year round. It measures 30.5" including recoil pad, and it rests just to the right of the console in my Toyota Taco, loaded with 208 gr Hog Hammers. Most of my fall-winter-spring trap lines (ADC) are in mixed hardwood-pine timber on private property. I am expected to make an effort to kill every hog I encounter as I make my rounds. I chose this particular gun because: (1) I very seldom have an opportunity for a 2nd shot in this terrain, it's one & they're gone. (2) This gun is the quickest out the window that I've handled. (3) Most of my targets are at 50 yds or less, and the load I use is adequate for larger hogs even on quartering shots, although a cautious approach and follow up is sometimes required. (4) I don't do spray & pray for numerous reasons, one being that it's not healthy for others who may be in the woods for other reasons to encounter a wounded feral hog. In these conditions, I don't feel under gunned. I have never shot a deer with this setup, but would not hesitate to do so at 100-125 yds if the need arose. The gun wears a 2.5-8x scope at its lowest setting, is zeroed at 100 yds, and gives about 2.5" groups from a rest. It is a special purpose rifle, but it fits my needs very well for this specific use. The .300 AAC round has many other uses in it's various loadings and platforms. Just my opinion, based on my needs and experience. Good luck in finding something that works well for you.

Shot 300 BO, AR, run 220 gr Sierra bullets, built on a 12'' barrel, carbine gas system, SB brace. Pistol set up, shots good, accurate, it's suppressed, which helps with recoil. Own AR 15, AR 10, M14a, plus 458 socum.

It performs adequately on hogs and I would assume deer also.

I like the 6.5 Grendel too, but take a look at the 350 Legend for a Deer/Hog thumper also. More penetration then a 243 they claim. Short range cartridge also, based off the 223 rem.

I have one and have killed a few deer with it. Here is MY take on the 300 blk. It was designed to use a short barrel and shoot heavy subsonic rounds with a suppressor. I have one because i can shoot with my suppressor on an AR pistol setup. 8.3" barrel with a 8" suppressor brings the ttl barrel length back to 16". It is short enough to be handy in thick woods and tree stands. When i put my suppressor on my 308 with 26" barrel it became too unwieldy to move it around without bumping into stuff even in a big popup blind. If you are gonna run a 16"(or longer) barrel there are just more powerful caliber options. But with a 300 blk in an AR pistol or SBR you can use a short barrel and suppressor and still have a reasonably compact weapon. Shooting heavy subsonic rounds is expensive. Only those designed to expand at subsonic levels will expand and they are expensive to shoot. All the other 200 220 240 gr stuff in fmj form wont expand, you may hit a bone and it may yaw inside the animal but terminal performance is lacking, it wont just drop animals on impact like you are used to with regular deer calibers. Sure if you hit something vital like a spine they drop blah blah, i have killed deer with a 22lr. But it isnt reliable or even ethical to me. I do have some 194 gr lehigh defense expanding subsonic bullets and they work good but are about a 1.50 per projectile not loaded ammo. Hornady has came out with a new SUB-X bullet that only comes as loaded ammo. It is subsonic out of my rifle, accurate, and expands wonderfully at 100yds but i havent shot anything with them yet, maybe this year. I equate subsonic hunting to about the same as pistol hunting or bowhunting. It will get the job done but expect to blood trail your game for a bit, it doesnt have the knockdown power a big rifle does. Now we can talk about supersonic bullets. I use 2 different bullets, the barnes 110gr tact-tx and the nosler varmageddon 110gr. The barnes are for deer, they expand down to 1300 fps i think which makes my rifle about a 350yd max effective range. (2200fps muzzle from 8.3" barrel suppressed) The noslers are cheaper and basically explode on contact, i use them for varmints and such, they are accurate and effective. Most all the other 30 cal bullets in are designed to work in higher velocity settings. Even a 110gr nosler ballistic tip from a 300 blk wont expand past about 75yds due to muzzle velocity, so you will be shooting a fmj past that distance. Now you can get a little more from them in a longer barrel and more MV but that defeats the purpose as why i built my pistol, to use a suppressor and still have a compact weapon.
Bullet cost. With me loading my own ammo they are as follows, 194gr lehigh about $2 a shot, loaded hornady subx $1 each, barnes 110 supersonic about $1, noslers about 50 cent. It may be a little bullet but you have to use premium bullets with it to function on game and its not cheap. Its not really even that cheap to plink with it because you need a decent bullet to make it accurate. For the heavy supers even a plinking round you will need a 200 plus grain fmj and they are about 30 cent ea and higher.
There are some benefits to a 300 blk in an AR platform. You can use standard BCG and buffer setups and shoot supersonic and subsonic rounds interchangeably with just a mag swap. The gas system will run them both very reliably. That is not found in any other caliber im aware of. But i have found the subsonics arent that much quieter than the supers when shooting suppressed. Sure you can take out the supersonic crack with subs, but its still a gas operated auto so its not significantly quieter. After playing with the subs and supers, i just use supers to hunt with. If you want a QUIET gun it needs to be a bolt action or single shot with enough barrel to get complete powder burn before the bullet exits. I have since made some subsonic 308 rounds that are just stupid quiet, but the bullet i found that stabilized from my rifle wont expand at subsonic velocities. But its accurate. That is why i initially built my 300 blk was to get a quieter rifle that was more maneuverable than my 308. Its definately more maneuverable but not really more quiet in the end.
I like my 300 blk. I carry it often on the trapline during deer season and i have no problem pulling the trigger on a doe with the proper ammo with it. But it rarely makes an exit wound, the deer barely bleed and they usually run. Luckily i havent had one make past about 50 yds yet. And it doesnt tear up alot of meat from hydrostatic shock like a 308 or 3006 will, so if you put it through the shoulder and not behind it, you can still salvage the shoulder. So with the right ammo, in the right setting I love my 300. Its in the not for sale ever pile. Now having said all that if im going deer hunting in a tree stand i grab my 308(which is a heavy but sexy beast) or my new favorite rifle of all time, T/C compass in 30-06 the most accurate and cheapest rifle i own.

I think i said it my post above but synopsis is unless you are building the 300 blk in an AR with short barrel there are just better caliber options. 16" or longer barrel? there are better calibers, single shot or bolt action? probably better calibers. short barrel, suppressed, AR, want to shoot super and subs? 300 blk is probably where you want to be.

I would compare the 300 blk power level to lets say an almost 30-30win.

It's a niche round. actually just an SAMMI version of the Whisper which has no standard dimensions. It is adequate for deer and hogs inside 100 yards especially at supersonic speeds. Shot placement much more critical subsonic. I prefer larger .308's for deer and hogs. I like the 300 black out and have an AR and a bolt gun. I actually convert 223 to blackout. The key is annealing them or they are one shot wonders with split case necks. When I say convert I mean thousands. 6.5 is also adequate. I also have several but don't really hunt with them. No reason just have a pet rifle. I am getting ready to have a 6.5-300 WBY built, already have the receiver and barrel. Still the black out is a fun round and fun to play with loads in.

energy wise a 223 intended for deer and a super sonic 300 black out intended for game they are within a margin of error of each other we have shot some deer with 300 shot placement is essentially as critical as when shooting a deer with 223 as is bullet selection.

that is to say both work and fairly similarly if shot right deer fall on the spot , if not shot right you can expect tracking and may or may not have an exit wound.

223 would actually be a touch higher in energy if you could actually get the 24 inch test barrel velocity listed on most boxes but the reality is most people are shooting 16 inch barrels.

if you look at an ammo like Federal Fusion MSR it gives a more realistic 2750fps from a 16 -20 inch barrel with a 62gr bullet.

300aac blackout went through all of it's SAAMI testing in a 16 inch barrel as opposed to the 24 inch test barrel used in most SAAMI testing.

it is a small case and it is hard to get top velocities you run out of case capacity before you exceed pressure 2300-2400 is basically top end at least until someone comes up with a powder that might push 300bo a little faster

if you compare it to pistol caliber carbines this is really the family it belongs in , and there is does quite well.

we run it because we shoot 300 blackout pistols to comply with a township ordinance of shotgun and Pistol only my dad is very recoil sensitive after several back & neck surgeries as well as a shoulder surgery that didn't go so well. he thinks the 300 is great because he has taken deer ever year since building the 300 pistol. deer walks in he puts cross-hairs of the 2x scope on the neck he squeezes and the deer is laying there , he texts me and I come over an gut and drag out his deer. why wouldn't you think 300 is most awesome if that was your experience with it.

there are better things but it does work on deer and it fits in an easy to build easy to shoot pistol how many pistols are turning in consistent 1 inch an under groups at 100 yards.

if it helps in this comparison my Great Grandfather thought 22 hornet was the perfect deer hunting round as did many of the Scandinavian immigrants around the same area having never lost a deer using 22 hornet .
but they were also never going to shoot a deer anywhere but the neck as to not waste good meat and essentially every shot was inside 100 yards.

if you compare it to a 16 inch trapper 30-30 it becomes a very close comparison or if you compare the 30-30 and the 300 at 100 yards where the 30-30 has already lost a good deal of energy due to it's round nose bullet.

but if your running Hornady lever revolution from a 20 inch barrel with a ballistic tip bullet the win will go to the 30-30 with ease.

have millions of deer fallen to yellow and green box Remington at around a hundred yards , definitely.

We’ve taken deer with a Hornet when we were young teens. Ruger #1. Wished was smart enough to hang on to that gun. Who would of thought the value of those rifles would be so high?

Exactly what i was thinking, About the same as a 30-30.

I agree greencountypete. I got into an arguement several years back where a guy swore a 300 blk was more powerful than a 30-30. His comparison was a 16" 30-30 with old school 150gr round nose bullets and a 300 blk with a 16"+ barrel shooting 110gr stuff very hot. His arguement was that the ballistic charts said the 300 blk would outrun the 30-30 at distance. He wouldnt listen that the 30-30 was shooting a much heavier bullet at similar speed. basically taking the best chart he could find for the blackout and the most mediocre he could find with the 30-30. Once you start talking ballistic tips and leverevolution i think the 30-30 becomes comparable to the low end of a 308 chart, with of course the 308 still the obvious winner.
I do think the 300 blk is a viable deer/hog hunting caliber. But it will be up to the shooter to understand the limitations it does have. 150yds and less shooting supersonic bullets that actually expand at distance its perfectly fine. The biggest thing i have found once i started shooting the blk over a chrono was it wasnt nearly as fast as advertised(especially with a pistol size barrel) and the muzzle velocity is fairly close to the lowest end of most bullets functioning threshold. Thats why im a huge fan of the barnes 110gr tac-tx stuff designed for the blk, it expands reliably way down to 1300ish fps which will give you plenty of range if you want to stretch out a shot. Most 30 cal bullets stop expanding reliably sub 1800-2000 fps. To me if you are hunting you should be shooting an expanding bullet, its law here in alabama. And therefore you need to know when a bullet stops expanding properly.
On the 22 hornet. first off, what a huge pain in the butt to reload with that fine neck. I have buddy that has one in a HR handi rifle. He has been taking it deer hunting and its surely has performed for him. He surely puts em down with that rifle, and no neck shots, straight broadside and he took a mature buck with a straight on chest shot a few years back. Upon cleaning the deer i have been amazed at the damage that little bullet can do. I think we loaded him some 35-40 gr sierra gamekings over imr 4227.

The 30-30 has a muzzle energy of around 1900 ft/lbs. the 300 Bo on a good day down hill and wind from behind 1350.
Now you can get tipped bullets for the 30-30 so it will outrun the 300 Bo with ease.

It all boils down to a simple fact, that If you cut a 223 case down to fit whatever caliber you want to stick in it and expand it or narrow it no matter what ya do, if ya cut it down you end up with less room for the stuff that goes boom and does the lump pushing.
The 35 legend is another one of those rounds that is pretty much dead at the starting line. A lot of hype to sell the thing and in a couple of years, folks will see for themselves its a lame duck and quit being it. Thats fine as by then another half dozen or so new super duper rounds will have made it onto the market.
The 223 is pretty nifty for such a small round and will never be a 22-250 or a swift . The case has not got the space for the boom stuff. Simple as that. With the Grendel or SOCM and others, they went a different route. They made the case wider to fit more powder into it. Now you got something to work with. Downside is les rounds in the mag. But for hunting that makes no difference.
Its a pretty easy equation. If ya want the horsepower, Ya need the space to put the fuel. Without it no matter how much fancy talking is done. Where the metal meets the target is where it matters.

Totally agree. The 9mm suffers from the same effect. Bullet diameter is perfect, just not enough arse behind it. I was interested in it solely for .30 cal aspect. To me, 7.62x39 is perfect in this case. But then again, I'm a fan of .30 cal and anything bases on the .308 case except the .243. The .338 federal trips my trigger. Sarge

I’m a weatherby man, so if you are looking, the old .300 is hard to beat but then you also got the 30-378 and the 338-378, but they are in bolt actions, so don’t pass on the weatherby, also in other calibers, if a bolt action will work. They can get plenty of powder behind the bullet.

Love semi shuckers. My favorite go to deer rifle is an old 39 year old Rem.7400 in .308. My favorite hog gun when I lived in Florida... Ruger 44 carbine. 240 grain Sierra JHC over W296.

I have a .300 weatherby round on my desk. Fills the hand quite nicely, but too much for what I hunt in SC.
I have coming soon is a JC Higgins Model 50 in 30/06. Built on a FN Mauser action. Sarge

You can never have too much gun. I’ve wanted to build a 300 in a semi but always afraid of shelling the barrel from heat.

the about the same as 30-30 comes with several caveats

first that you are running run of the mill Remingtion green and yellow box 150gr which claim 2390fps on the box but from a 16 inch trapper rifle are more like 2150 fps and a bc of 0.200 so now you are right down in 300bo territory your still 40 grains heavier at 100 yards your now looking at 1047fpe and 1773 fps

and second that your running a good bullet in 300 blackout with a 0.290bc and running near max velocity for 300bo of say 2300fps mv the high end of book in a 110gr for 300bo is 2474

running a .290 110 at 2300 you have at 100 yards 1001fpe and 2024fps
running a .200 150 at 2150 you have at 100 yards 1047fpe and 1773fps

this is where they are about the same

at 200 yards

2150fps mv .200bc is 699fpe and 1449fps
2300fps mv .290bc is 765fpe and 1770fps

if you hand load a higher BC bullet or buy a more premium ammunition the 30-30 clearly has the case capacity to do more than 300bo

but there are a lot more 100 year old 30-30s than there are 10 year old 300 blackouts 300 can run 60K psi where manufacturers keep factory 30-30 ammo on the very safe side of 35K psi

so given those caveats they are about the same

and work even if they could both be better .

When you consider what the 300blk was designed to do, replace pistol caliber carbines like a mp5 for tactical applications its an amazing round. It was designed to shoot heavy subs from a suppressed short barreled rifle while clearing buildings. When compared to a 9mm carbine then the 300 blk seems like a powerhouse. The problem comes when we try to make it do things it wasnt designed for, like hunting beyond short range targets. It can still get the job done but it doesnt shine compared to any normal full power round normally used for hunting.

300 black out was never really intended to be the answer to a deer and hog hunting round but people found out how it could be used as such with limitations.


300 was really the answer to the MP5 or more specifically 9mm sub sonic suppressed SBR and Pistol caliber carbines.

147gr at sub sonic was even running +p only is only about 300 FPE

a 220gr bullet propelled at 1050 is running 530 FPE something seen as a significant enough increase paired with low velocity expanding bullets to be effective

the suppressed 9mm had been the go to entry gun for drug labs the agents wanted to avoid shooting if possible but if they had too running a suppressed gun with flash suppressant powder they could shoot as safely as possible in a hazardous environment filled with chemical concoctions and flammable liquids used in the processing and manufacture of drugs.

why reinvent the hole gun when all you need is a barrel change already having mags that work reliably a gun that feeds reliably and it has the exact same manual of arms they are already trained on.

well we are thinking on the same wave length today because I typed my post without having seen yours.

haha i think we are on the same page on the 300blk.

Well I think most of us here don't have storming into crack labs on their list of favorite pass times or even regular out of season activity with the kids. So in our world of hunting etc. There are better options all around weather one wants it for a AR15 platform or bolt gun.

Here is an article about the 350 legend ....... another hyped up round with nothing to back it up

https://www.chuckhawks.com/win_350_legend.html

the 458 socom , 450 Beowulf , 350 legend i think there is a 358 out there they have their place in fitting into a narrow definition of pistol caliber carbine for states that have dropped their shotgun only and allow PCC in strait walled cases.

make stupid rules and people will make creative ways around them.

The 458 SOCOM is a bottle neck cartridge. All be it a bit of a dumpy bottle. The 450 Bushmaster fits into that. And the 500 Beowolf as well but I don't think that any pistols are chambered in any of them.
The thing they did with the above cartridges though is to increase the case volume, so you can actually shoot the larger projectiles at decent speeds. Not so the legend as it is just a 223 case necked up to 35 caliber. and that again s its downfall as a hunting cartridge. I put 40 grains of powder behind a 300 grain projectile in my SOCOM. in an AR15 rifle. Thats enough to fill 3 cases of 300 BO using a projectile half the weight

I don't know about drug lab agents, but the reason suppressed 9mm where used for hostage rescue and COB inside homes was due to the fact that the 9mm rounds would not go through walls like the 5.56. The reason it was suppressed was to try not to disturb and scare children and others.
The MP5, Sig, CZ and CMMG Banshee in the 9mm and suppressed make an awesome home defense gun.



[the suppressed 9mm had been the go to entry gun for drug labs the agents wanted to avoid shooting if possible but if they had too running a suppressed gun with flash suppressant powder they could shoot as safely as possible in a hazardous environment filled with chemical concoctions and flammable liquids used in the processing and manufacture of drugs.

why reinvent the hole gun when all you need is a barrel change already having mags that work reliably a gun that feeds reliably and it has the exact same manual of arms they are already trained on. [/quote]

9mm has nearly the same amount of over penetration as fragmenting 223 through walls both do a good job of stopping in people targets but the 223 makes an incredible energy dump.
however the pressure wave and noise in a confined space is ugly.

300bo nearly doubles the energy of 9mm while not really changing the noise or over penetration much.

some of our local multi state drug task-force officers are now running the 300 in a suppressed SBR the one I was talking to at the range liked the 300 over the 9mm but it could be their personal preference.

Nope, 9mm is not only much safer, as the AR will through bodies through walls.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiAQT96j2ZY

this is SO hugely ammo dependent.

in your video link they used 77gr black hills ,that is a match ammunition not intended to expand , I agree you will get great penetration.

but that is why I say so hugely ammo dependent. if you use something like Hornady TAP 55gr Urban the results will likely be different



there are also better and worse 9mm ammo for over penetration although most 9mm personal defense ammunition doesn't leave the body or leave with a lot of energy . however on a miss many still punch a number of drywall walls

I tried some 147gr Ranger LE 9mm recently , it might have well as been fmj for it's effectiveness on animal targets and I went back to my 124gr load that gives me the effect I am looking for.