gold and silver

been some interesting days lately for both.

how low will oil go??

Silver has been bouncing around this present mark for the last few years now, Haven't seen much change.

52 week low for silver was 13's today it is 17+.

i was watching the silver numbers and about got dizzy today.

I can see the sense of owning silver but owning gold just doesn't make sense to me. I'd bet there's been times a person would trade a pickup load of gold for a pickup load of firewood.

High gold prices are good for here-means lots of work.

Looks to me like gold mining destroys a lot of nice country. How's the Pebble Mine fight going?

I bet not.

Gold and silver are on an uptrend right now but nothing like Bitcoin since the first of the year

Bitcoin isn't real.
A whole bunch of suckers who thought they had some found out it was not real.

Bitcoin is just as real as fiat currency. The key is getting people to trust that a currency will hold value and the ability to use the currency to purchase goods. Just think, Bitcoin is not controlled by any one entity and there a finite number of coins. Meanwhile the Fed is a privately owned corporation whose sole purpose is to make money. They can print whatever they want and control interest rates to suite their needs. The Fed gained total control in 1973.

I've always been into silver at some levels. If you're in no rush you can see some pretty good return on silver. Unfortunately it usually seems to have an inverse relationship with a falling stock market. My grandfather has collected silver all his life in various forms. I remember I believe it was 2011 when he sold a couple kilo bar's he'd bought off a guy from the trunk of his car around 1986. He told me they had cornered the silver market and drove the prices up which eventually resulted in a crash. He'd paid around $360 for them at the time and he sold them for just over $3000 in 2011. Patience is the key with the silver I've found but you can make some nice returns if you time it right. I prefer bullion myself I have owned some paper stocks in silver in the past, but something about having something physically in your hand does it for me.

Well in silver it looks to me like they are liquidating the(sep) SIU19 and adding to the (dec) SIZ19. So they are wanting out of the nearby to avoid delivery if long. So what does this mean for price direction, if anything?

As a hedge or as some like to call it an investment, gold makes more sense than silver imo.
Gold is for the most part mined from mines who's primary purpose is to mine gold. If the gold can't be mined at a profit the deposit doesn't get exploited. On the other hand only about 15% of the silver mined comes from silver mines, the vast majority of silver comes as a by product of copper or lead/zinc, and gold mines. In other words they get the silver with no real economic consequences. The silver enters the market even if the market doesn't really want it.

However, imo I don't think gold should be bought as an investment; that is, to "buy low, sell high". Gold should be used as a hedge against currency devaluation.

Yep. I'd rather take my chances with solid companies and decent dividends than gold.

Copper and lead is where I invest.

How would you spend the gold if all paper money fell through?

I like the real silver, Bought some a few years ago, The real thing, and not the paper promise of some, If one needs to trade some for a loaf of bread, Etc. Its easier to give a silver coin, then to chop off some gold off of a bar or coin. The only advantage of gold, as I see it, is if your dealing with high dollar trading. If the economy was to fail barter will be used a lot as it was in the old days

What would a guy do about an assay? Or would a guy just trust everyone. That's why I always thought in a total break down one would be better off with smaller silver coins.

I totally agree that silver would be best for the average person, I just mentioned gold as an example that precious metals of any type maintains value. I have a ring that I I inherited from my father, but won't sell it, although I tried, Everyone expects me to sell it for the gold, and just throw the 21 diamonds in for free. That ain't happening. Buy a diamond ring and It costs big money, sell it and dealers value it as next to nothing, except for the gold.

I bought silver in the 80s for $4 an ounce. It went to around $40 and I held it. At today’s prices, my compounded rate of return is not so hot, but it is tax free. Still holding on. Will leave it to the kids.

I remember Silver Thursday quiet well, lol.

Silver and gold are not investments and the only people that make money with them are the dealers selling it. I've been hording silver since it was in circulation in the 1960's. When it make a bump up I sell some, but I buy very little. Now I just buy dividend paying stocks. For you silver guys look at this chart and tell me how anyone can make money with silver. Buying low and selling high is not easy to do.


Range Change Change %

Today +0.14 +0.84%
7 Days +0.72 +4.42%
30 Days +1.68 +11.00%
6 Months +1.18 +7.48%
1 Year +1.49 +9.63%
5 Years -3.09 -15.45%
10 years +2.62 +18.34%

The worst thing a guy that doesn't know how the market works and takes a position and by chance makes a quick profit, then he is hooked. If he doesn't know how he did it or even if he does then the psychological part of gambling, especially for a person who has always worked for money, kicks in and all the problems with gambling can come to play.

I don't look at silver coins or bullion as an investment tool, but rather, a safer means of saving then currency in a back savings account. ( A means of barter, should the economy fail. Not to buy and sell as one would do in the stock market. )

Yes, I have the same thought pattern. There will be many that will say a melt down won't happen or if it does things will be so bad your planning won't help. To expand your way of thinking, I can remember when we had an ice storm and was out of electricity for 4 days. Town was down for a couple days. Cash registers don't work with out electric nor does gas pumps. If you have a generator it won't work without gas nor will your truck. Here we live on the New Madrid fault so you see we could have a few days of a lot of inconvenience if not prepared a least to a degree. Not even considering terrorist acts. Even a snow storm ain't fun when you have food and no toilet paper, lol. A guy needs to be self functional for at least a few days, unless you think the gov will save you. That might include cash, food, water, gas, antibiotics any other personal medicines, and etc. And if you are in the country the gov services will center on the city masses first. Hospitals, post office, court house, etc. all come first.

That might be, however I'll bet if such a time ever arrived you would have a much better chance trading a pickup full of gold for a pickup full of firewood than you would have trading a pickup load of cash for a pickup load of firewood.

PRE- 1964 SILVER COINS is always good to have

I remember seeing a news cast in some country where the inflation was so bad they were burning their paper money to stay warm. Also I saw a news cast in a Russian war torn city, where it was freezing cold and snow. Some old man with all the clothes on he could find had a little hatchet and was chopping wood chips out of the ground from a tree that was long gone. News caster said he was trying to get enough chips to boil water for some tea.

Those images have stuck in my mind for years and I hope nothing like that ever happens here. But if it was to I'm afraid an awfully lot of complainers and protesters won't make it.

Precious metals are a terrible investment if you’re looking to see returns. That said, I buy some silver boullion sometimes. I just like having it to be honest. I tell my kids it’s my “pirate money” lol

I've hung on to almost all the silver and gold I've found with my metal detector. I've only every sold a few coins and then it was like selling fur. Not sure you get what it's really worth just what someone paid you??
I've thought about sending all the gold and silver to someone to have a gold button or bar made. But then the whole trust thing kicks in and I can't get myself to do it. I know the gold jewelry is all different 10k 14k 18k. Same with silver lot is stamped 925 but I have no idea what to expect back from a refiner?? Market goes bad who sets the value of the Silver coins I've saved?
I just hang on to things I probably should have sold years ago because I'm uneducated on it all.
I do love reading these posts and learning though.
Guess my kids will have to figure it out one day?

Mac

I like reading these kind of threads too.

Check the price of scrap lately? I have enough brake rotors to run a full time coon line.
Not sure which plan is worse lol.

yepper,we play "my scrap pile is bigger than your scrap pile lately."

I save stuff. I don't plan on making anything off of it. It will all go to my daughter, and she'll make a mint. She has nothing invested.

Gold and silver are all manipulated down by the banker's through paper gold and derivatives to protect the dollar. You probably will not see much of a rise in price unless there is a crisis. Witch could happen.

I will add there is more above ground gold than there is silver. Up is down and down is up these days. No real price discovery taking place in anything.

I always keep old silver coins as I get them

The best investment to me has always been ammunition and guns

I can’t eat silver and gold and I can’t kill anything with it


You always see the commercials about buying silver and gold in case the economy collapses but they are taking cash for it in return so how good is it really

All of the gold ever mined wouldn't even fill up the base of the Statue of Liberty. All of the jewelry you see now has been recycled at some point, same with recycling computer mother boards. A little gold goes a long way as it is extremely ductile. Paper money is only worth what the government says it's worth. It is backed by nothing. If things ever went sideways you have tangible assets in gold and silver, and monopoly money in paper.

My thinking is if things go south what is silver and gold actually worth

I know it would be worthless to me

Gold and silver are only worth what we say they are too. Remember that salt used to be the medium of exchange.

Nothing has intrinsic value. Only utilitarian value that we ascribe to it

I have a bunch of troy ounce silver coins from shooting trophies for trap shooting, silver was a little over $5 a ounce back then. I would shake my head, shoot all day pay for shells and targets and IF you win you get a $5 coin. LOL

The English word “salary” comes from the Latin salarium which came from salt, referring to the early Roman soldier’s wages, part of which was an allowance of salt.

The county south of me is Saline County. They had plenty of salt water wells which was boiled down to get the salt. It was done with slave labor and is why the slave trade prospered in Southern Illinois for a while.

Any thing of value can be traded but often the two people wanting to trade doesn't want the other guys commodity. That is why a medium is necessary to complete the trade and that is why an exchange is necessary for a free market.

Ask the Chinese, Russians and Indians if gold has intrinsic value.

I'm sure I'm not seeing it but'.., years ago, my dad tried to get me to buy gold n silver.
Never did.. we had the same discussion last year. I told him lead n copper were a way better investment.
He looked at me in a puzzled way.
Bottom line, you may have 1000 lbs of gold n silver, but if you don't have even a small amount of copper n lead and I do, guess what

.22 shells

It goes without saying one would need precious and semi precious metals.

if the economy was to total tank gold and silver would not be as valuable as some commodities.

Guns, Ammunition, booze, smokes and even toilet paper..

heck, if things were bad enough a can of spam would be worth more than a bar of gold.

X2

I wouldn't say what "we" say it's worth but what the Central Banker's say it's worth relative to there fiat currency. This is done through paper gold and silver that doesn't exist and derivatives.

That was the reason behind the crypto currency's. Something the banker's couldn't control the value of.

I am sure they are accumulating it because of what they can do with it. Utility value. By itself, gold does nothing and represents nothing.

I've heard where some Prepper's prefer to hoard wine and dry foods like Bean, rice.. Keep lesser amounts of silver and gold. As others have said commodities would probably have move value in a actual collapse or long term power outage. Would be a mess no matter what anyone thinks they might have prepared for..

Mac

Without gold and silver your computer wouldn't work,your cell phone or that cool 65" TV you have. All that cool stuff we are putting in space wouldn't be possible.The utilitarian use of rare metal's is just going to increase in the future.

They might be accumulating it because they know what the paper will be worth in the future.

Let me rephrase Ken, why are the Chinese, Russian and Indian Central banks accumulation gold?

Because they believe the paper and digital markets are going to crash would be my guess.That wouldn't be far fetched either considering the entire world is headed towards negative interest rates.

In the case of an economic meltdown the cliche about beans, bullets, and Band-Aids holds true...

Food: A way to produce it and store it.

Medicine: A way to treat whatever ails you now... And what could ail you later.

Guns: Self-explanatory.

A few other considerations...

Tools and hardware, and the knowledge of how to use them.

Alcohol: Even if you don't drink, it has a lot of uses and people will trade for it.

Tobacco: Even if you don't use it, people will trade for it.

Tires: If the economy is down for a while people will manage to fix and fuel vehicles. But tires will be valuable.

Household items: Toilet paper was mentioned. Basic kitchen utensils will become valuable, especially manual ones.

Gold and silver can still be valuable, but I wouldn't make them a priority.

Mike

That's an easy one. They are buying gold because they want/need to diversify their foreign exchange reserves. The trade war could escalate into a currency war and both China & Russia believe ( probably correctly) that the gold will appreciate while currencies depreciate.

Nevertheless the gold that China is holding only constitutes 2.8% of their total foreign reserves. A very tiny fraction.

Still, you and I have no disagreement here. The gold only has a value in terms of what someone will pay or trade for it. By itself it has no intrinsic value. If you buy an ounce of gold and hold it until the end of eternity, all you will have is an ounce of gold that just sits there an looks at you.

The value is only derived from what a person can do with it. Just like a trap. A chunk of gold lying on the river bank is just like the chunk of limestone lying beside it. A rock.

I know you understand this, unlike some others.

If it came to a full on crisis gold and silver would be worthless. You can’t eat or drink it, it won’t heal or defend you, doesn’t produce heat, is too soft to make useful tools, I guess you could make silverware but it cannot contribute anything to you that you need to survive in and of itself. Nobody will trade you food for it because they’ll want something more important, water or a battery or a shirt.

We'll have to respectfully disagree Ken, gold lying in the stream hasn't been like a piece of limestone more 1000s of years, I don't see it changing anytime in the next 1000.

But you are thinking in terms of dollars. NOT intrinsic value

Precious metals won't help during a full blown financial collapse. Is what it will do is preserve your wealth when we come out the other side.

Gold never was and will never be a limestone. It was forged in a dying star billion's of years ago and will be gold until the end of time. We don't even know the new uses that will come in the future for precious metals but you can bet there will be.

Gold has no intrinsic value ? Well then just send all yours to me i will happily take that junk off your hands.Why would you want to be weighted down with that.

Gold is real money. Gold was money long before any of us were here and it will be money long after we are gone.

Gold and silver are a way to preserve wealth not survive a crisis.

Gold and silver are a terrible way to preserve wealth. If you look at historic numbers over the long term you’d be better off investing money in almost any other investment vehicle.

We will see about that in the next economic downturn. The real one.

My mom and dad would often talk of the ration stamps in WW2. You would get your ration stamps monthly from a ration board. Sugar, coffee, rubber(tires etc.) gas, shoes were some of the most sought after. Of course with that came the black market. I know many stories of hoarding. And then there was the Victory Gardens.

Granted that was all a War effort for fighting over there. If the War was here it would be a huge game changer. And whats going to become of the masses in the cities (head for the country ? )

I have question for those that invest in gold and silver.

Do you buy physical gold and silver or etf's, stocks, or mutual funds etc?

With the recent increase in gold, 2020 election upcoming.

The jr miners/royalty generators are a happy place once again.

PHYSICAL ,you can hold it in your hand , just have a good gun safe to put it in.

You can take $9,999.00 of face value gold coins in or out of the country without having to declare it.

If you don't hold it you don't own it. If we had an economic melt down you would find out real fast that all the paper metal's do not exist.

It says right in the fine print you can never take possession. Why do you think that is ?

My next question. If you invest in physical gold and silver how do you make any money when you buy at retail and when you redeem you sell at wholesale?

What kind of physical gold and silver do you buy? Coins or bullion?

You buy as close to spot as you can get it. Buy the dips.

Coins
Junk or 40 percent is a no brainer if you are holding

I use the kitco app on my phone and buy from a dealer that charges less

What I like is Silver or gold is harder to spend than a safe full of cash
Imuse or I need that buys take time

Thanks, Vinke.

I try to avoid the 40 percent unless it's a smokin deal and even then I try to flip it right away. .999 Silver takes up enough room as it is 40 percent silver takes up 2.5 times the room.

Gold is the ultimate end goal IMHO. If and when it goes back to 40 or so to 1 ratio it's time for the silver to go.