Nafa auction

Nafa sale for wild fur is next week Friday the 23 Rd, wondering if anything has changed since June sale that effect fur prices or if most buyers have orders filled for now? Could be that only thing worth going after is coyote an some heavy coon this fall, not sure how much time well have for trapping an how much well be able to afford to go

Oh c'mon guys the first legible post and not ONE comment?

The trade war is expanding otherwise not much has changed in the fur market.

Any one expecting good things to come out of this, is probably going to be disappointed!!

We will find out a lot more in the near future, but if half of what I hear is true I’m with monster toms, not going to be pretty

Hope they collect enough commissions to pay for the mothballs!!

Nope,

coonman forgot the apostrophes in we'll !!!

w

Coonman,
You keep doing the same thing you will get the same results.

X2 Lots of rumors. I've been contacted by several asking what is going on. I have no idea.

You know they could sell it all,,, storage costs a lot.
Might not decide to store and just sell it for what they can get.

Must have got that Auto Grammar App.
More likely he sprung for a computer so he wouldn't have to fight with typing on his Android.

Just when Wetdog was about to become the official interpreter , there goes job security, lol.

It was probably a Mexican with a bulge in his pocket and a twinkle in his eye who stole Wetdog's dang interpreter job...

I wouldn't expect much to happen with wild fur. Goods being offered are all held over from the June sale. Goods that no one wants or goods with high dealer limits.

As ADC said, lots of rumors floating around. I wouldn't pay attention to any of them.

I am gonna set traps no matter what. I will know for sure what the market is when my fur sells. I ain't gonna worry over it. Groeny rocks

X2. Granted I am very new to the game, but I sure as heck don't trap for the money. I trap because I love it.

I'd keep your day job coonman if you've found one yet.

Many have lost trust with them,I imagine after this, Fha and Colorado will get a lot more business.

Well what's going to happen? I f you're going to predict the future, you have to say it before it happens.

I think the sale for ranch goods will be a disaster and wild fur won’t sell much at all. In my opinion, this is a poor time for a sale. A lot of the fur trade goes on summer break this time of year.

I also believe that this will not tell what demand for wild fur will be this fall.

After talking with Lee at Springfield , FHA won't be getting any business with him.

All ranch and wild fur is now traceable and certified. Prices on all species will now double. The consumer demanded this and we delivered and now will reap the rewards.

The wfsc has decided to keep spending your money wisely making fur handling videos to give thier producers free ,instead of spending that money promoting your product to achieve the highest prices and clearances.

......bingo...nailed it lol

Complete my work nearly is, yes, learn fast this one does.
Training you must finish, or to the dark side slip again you will. Lol

I see Scuba 1's avatar

I wish we had some news to share with you, coonman. It's touch and go @ this point.

Why have it in August ? Don't sound like ideal time, late Sept even be better, last summer july sale, nothing mine sold, the year before , was much better late summer sale

lets all hope for a suprise

I would look at not putting all my eggs in 1 basket

Careful Dirt,


If BOCO reads this, he will have another stroke, maybe develop a facial tic,

and begin drooling from the mouth, and start babbling incoherently,

and I mean MUCH more than he already does !!

w

You guys need to start promoting your own fur like we do,instead of sitting back and waiting for a foreign fur auction to do it for you,then whining like little girls cause you don't like it.Bunch of lefty libs.

......there is a difference between promoting fur and certifying it.!!! lol

Actually no difference at all. Certification is just another marketing tool used to promote the product.

Actually no difference at all. Certification is just another marketing tool used to promote the product. [/quote]

Wrong. Certification is an unneeded and unwanted lefty idea, promoted to make producers think that their marketers(nafa) is doing such a great job for them.(the producer). Just another sales gimmick from nafa, and in collusion with a handful of end users. The fact of the matter is it won't make any difference, you can't get people that are brainwashed by the anti's to except fur, based on a wim and a prayer!

The timing is all right in my opinion. I’m guessing skins could be bought now and be on the shelf by Christmas reducing time the buyer has their money tied up providing it sells. Problem is a simple glut of mink. August 2020 might be a better time to have a sale.,hopefully !

Simple answer,if you don't like how the company does business don't sell your fur there then whine about it.
Sell it in your own country like some already do.
And for your information,C+T is industry wide.And in many industries not just fur.It gives the consumer confidence in the product,and disproves the lies that the antis spread about animals being skinned alive,etc.
It has no effect on depressed fur prices due to a glut of ranch fur on the market.Not related at all.More people wearing fur now in north America probably in 20-30 years at least.

Boco, what does C+T mean? Sorry for the stupid question.

Not at all,Run,it means Certification and traceability.It excludes fur from the black market where there are no professional standards in the industry.
Todays modern consumers demand traceability of all kinds of products,fur is no different.

I agree with Boco. Don't do business with NAFA , I quit after they started making poor business decisions related to my product. I also agree that c and t is a bunch of malarky that will not achieve NAFA's promise of higher prices and clearances.

Thanks,Boco.

What constitutes black market fur? Protected critters? Pelts from countries with little/no regulations? If so, how does/did that affect the fur market? I think there would not be enough those type pelts to affect the North American fur market.

How does NAFA know how anybody is trapping, dispatching, skinning their fur?

They don't.

Only potententials for black market stuff for NAFA would be pre/post season pelts or pelts from protected animals in certain states being tagged as those from legal states

Nafa is only one part of C+T.It is industry wide.The pelts in a fur coat can be traced all the way thru the pipeline to the country of origin.And the countries like china that have no standards are not certified.And countries like US, Can,EU and Russia which adhere to regulatory standards can be certified.
Same applies to the ranch fur.Ranch fur that comes from countries with industry standards can be certified.
Once fur in a garment can be traceable all the way thru the entire pipeline from producer to end product to country of origin then it can be certified.Furs from countries that don't meet the regulatory standards will not be certified.
Like was said it is all about marketing a product in the way demanded by the modern consumer.
This is why hundreds of industries have C+T assurances.

Boco, ever hear the saying...Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me?
You've been fooled twice.

Never been fooled.
Look at the solid foundation trapping is on in Canada compared to your country,with all the fur bans etc.
I can see who the "fools" are.

They don't, it is just a technicality, some paperwork, it is a good idea though for business

Fur prices in Canada for what I can see has been under production costs for some time now. With the exception of northwest coyotes. I hope they stay high for you guys.

The way I harvest my fur would be illegal in Canada, but it meets the same certification standards as theirs. That would be" No Standard".

You are clueless about C+T if you think it has anything to do with different trapping laws in different jurisdictions.

You said they are certifying fur to industry standards. What are the standards?

. If you lie to yourself long enough you start to believe it I suppose
When close to 100 percent of beaver harvested these days are hatters profitability is laughable

Read it.

NAFA’s Ethical Sourcing program was developed to give our loyal customers the confidence that NAFA Certified™ furs are sourced from responsibly managed, and sustainable populations of ranched and wild fur. NAFA has made a commitment to offer both ranched and wild certified furs by the year 2020.

NAFA advises all of our consignors to get certified as soon as possible to be prepared for 2020 when NAFA will begin selling Certified fur.

.........That's all I garnered reading from their webpage. So how do I go about getting certified?

"Wild fur, because of the myriad of international laws, federal, state and provincial rules in place is already certified. Third party oversight already exists and all wild fur sold through the auction is certified." Fur Harvester's explanation.

certify:

officially recognize (someone or something) as possessing certain qualifications or meeting certain standards.

Was their some doubt that trapping was occurring unregulated? Is it the 1800's?

No,but it had to be traceable thru the pipeline,not just at the auction house.

ethics:

moral principles that govern a person's behavior or the conducting of an activity.

Boco - I would like you to explain how "traceable" would work in the following situation.

Person A traps coyotes in the State of Oregon. He has an Oregon Trapping license. He and 3 of his buddies all Trap in the same area, put up their fur together and sell it as a group. The split the selling price based on how many coyotes each person has in the group.

They sell their coyotes at the OTC sale in Prineville. I am a licensed fur buyer in the State of Oregon. I attend this fur sale and buy the group of coyotes those 4 guys sell. I also buy several other groups of coyotes from various other Trappers. When I get those coyotes back to Idaho, I add them to the coyotes I have bought at other sales.

I am now ready to ship my batch of coyotes to NAFA. I have no idea which coyotes came from which sale and which Trapper. How in the ..... is NAFA supposed to trace each pelt. I can't imagine the paper trail that would be necessary to follow each specific coyote pelt from the time it is trapped until it is graded at NAFA. That would be a bigger nightmare than CITES tags on bobcats.

So, please explain in detail how NAFA is going to "trace" a specific pelt in the shipmentni send them.

He also said how it was "skinned"...…… good grief how could they do that?..... traceable to the point of how they were skinned.

Definition: Malarkey

noun; meaningless talk, nonsense, insincere or foolish talk,

speech or writing designed to obscure, mislead, or impress. bunkum.

Sounds about right, Dirt !!

w

This might be the best auction ever!!!!!

Here's how the Antis are dealing with traceability at the retail level... Canadian retail level: https://nypost.com/2019/08/01/canada-goose-pulls-claims-about-its-treatment-of-animals-amid-probe/

You believe PETA?-idiot.

Well at least certification will prove once and for all that trapping is regulated. Peta won't be telling big whoppers about all our unregulated fur harvesting anymore.

Oh they will keep spewing their BS.Fortunately consumers now have solid info from the producers to refute the BS ie: C+T.

All traceability tells the consumer is the product comes from the U.S. or Canada. Are anti's telling the consumer our products come from somewhere else? The retailers and the manufacturers are the ones pedaling Chinese raccoon dog as raccoon and claiming they can't sell North American raccoon.

Yes-they say our garments contain live skinned Chinese raccoon dog.

My product is a pelt. Many products labelled by retailers and their Chinese suppliers as raccoon is actually illegally labeled Chinese raccoon dog. Both know they are lying to the consumer. This practice will continue as long as the U.S. does not enforce their labeling laws.

Boco, your hypothesis from the very beginning (for years now) argued that certification and traceability would curtail the lies and distortions from groups like PETA because we'll now have proof and evidence that our harvesting methods are humane because of the C+T label. Well, we now have a test case of your hypothesis, and PETA not only spewed out their usual lies and distortions *they used traceability* as the basis for their attack on Canada Goose.

Traceability provided them with the framework on which to pull their publicity stunt. It was key to everything they did here, and they brought the FTC into it once again!

And what did Canada Goose do? They ran with their tails between their legs, scrubbed their website of everything having to do with traceability, and made an announcement that the company is "currently in the process of diversifying its product offerings towards categories that do not use its signature coyote fur. Specifically, management called out knitwear, which primarily uses wool, as one category gaining momentum.”

It was a disaster.

Wrong. Certification is an unneeded and unwanted lefty idea, promoted to make producers think that their marketers(nafa) is doing such a great job for them.(the producer). Just another sales gimmick from nafa, and in collusion with a handful of end users. The fact of the matter is it won't make any difference, you can't get people that are brainwashed by the anti's to except fur, based on a wim and a prayer![/quote]

Maybe unneeded, maybe unwanted, maybe effective, maybe not. But it is a marketing tool, nothing more.

How does the company packing tuna in cans know for sure it is "dolphin free"?
How does the company packing an orgainic chicken know it didn't pick a bug off the fence that once walked across a leaf the was exposed to roundup?

Exactly what I wanted to say only you said it way better......

Wrong mainer-that is fake news spun by the peta crowd.CG stands by its product and backs its suppliers.In fact they proved thru C+T that the goose farm in question was not one used by CG.And their statement that the coyote harvest is surplus animals and sustainable.And that a population managed by harvesting the surplus mitigates nuisance and human conflict is spot on.They may not have worded it well but have come out to correct that.
They absolutely did not back off their commitment to sustainable harvest by their suppliers(trappers),on the contrary they re-affirmed their commitment.They did however clarify the poor wording.
Only the rabid antis did not accept that-are you an anti,you seem to be spewing/spreading their rhetoric about one of our most important supporters?Or is it because it is a Canadian company?

CG has been lying to their consumers for years. Apparently it works, but they get busted all the time and everybody pays the price. It was CG that started all this certification stuff concerning wild fur with their false claims that they only used coyotes caught by certified Canadian trappers. Reminds me of the old Burlington coat factory boondoggle.

Obviously you swallowed all the peta BS.
All fur trapped in Canada comes from trained and certified trappers.No lie.

Unfortunately some ( maybe most) of their coyotes came from uncertified U.S. sources. Peta made no claims, CG advertised this. What are you certified as in Canada? If you are all certified, what is NAFA and FHA certifying? Us?

I googled "certified Canadian trappers" google seems be unaware.

Certified under the aihts,and you under the bmp.

Traps are certified, not trappers. And Canadian coyote trappers use snares (not certified) and certified trap use is only mandatory in Ontario, Quebec, and New Brunswick. Not exactly where western heavies come from.

"Note 1: The exclusive use of these certified traps is currently mandatory only in Ontario, Québec, New Brunswick"

Snares are totally acceptable under the aihts derogation.
And the footnote refers only to encapsulating traps for coon,lol.

No the footnote refers to all Phase 2 restraining traps which cover all the certified restraining traps for coyotes and other species. Snares are not certified killing or restraining traps. Since the subject was certification can we stick the subject. If you believe your own misinformation you type on here, it does not surprise me you believe CG or NAFA or FHA.

Certified traps

Boy are you dense.The footnote is for encapsulating raccoon traps only.
And,snares are not tested but certified by the competent authority(provincial wildlife managers),and accepted in the aihts agreement since the competent authority is responsible for implementing the agreement.
Gibb is on the TRDC ,he can straighten you out on your lack of ability to understand the agreement.

After reading it over and over I agree the footnote refers only to the coon traps. Even in Ontario, New Brunswick, and Quebec the use of certified restraining devices for coyotes is not mandatory, yet, by certified Canadian trappers.

The traps currently in use are certified until a better trap can be produced.After a better trap is produced there is a several year phase in before current traps are removed from the list of approved traps,and no longer certified by the competent authority for use.

The full page of phase 2 restraining traps is below for everyone to read. Oddly enough, this issue came up at one of the demos at the New England Trappers Weekend on Friday. A New Brunswick trapper said that they were limited to certain footholds for coyotes and specifically mentioned the Bridger #3 on the list if I'm not mistaken. So apparently the confusion exists even for Canadian residents??? I don't know.

In any event, a big thumbs up to Dirt for his above post -- good on you! The wording is not at all clear, and relegating such an exception to a footnote only invites further misunderstanding. What is clear, however, is that Canadian trappers will be severely restricted in what they can use to trap canines and felines in the near future. I'll stick with the Good Ol' US of A if you don't mind.

Boco, you keep brushing off the inevitable because the requirements have not yet gone into effect. But that final destination is clearly before you, and that is one trail's end I'd never want to reach.

I have a new found respect for the Canadian fur Industry's ability to obfuscate and delay.

BOCO,

When you resort to name calling,

Does this mean you have run out of

legitimate ideas to back up your assertions ?

w

Obfuscate.

verb.

to render obscure, unclear, or unintelligible. to blur, muddle, jumble,

complicate, garble, muddy, cloud, befog.

w

Yea we all use the Breathe Easy Live Beaver trap……..or the Belisle Super X 120 trap for weasel

Boco really dont care about the restrictions because none of them restrict him personally!!! He has no coyotes in hos area but go ahead and throw you fellow trappers under the bus.....C+T is on its way out along with Cg

Seems like a tad bit overkill...

No that's just to make people mad.
Are you the t-man dictionary walleyes?
We can use all kinds of traps and snares here that you cant.Not restricted at all for anything.
I like to harvest dead animals.It is a big advantage for several reasons,but I use footholds occasionally for stubborn critters,but it means that ethically I must check those traps daily,and that is a big disadvantage for me.
We don't throw trappers under the bus here,that is an American thing by the looks of a lot of these threads.I think it is a spin off from that selfish America first thing.Canadians are the opposite of that way of thinking.

A 120 is an excellent trap for weasels,I trap hundreds of them with that trap.

Listen you Forest Gump types,if things seem overly obfuscated to you ask walleyed for some clarity,he is a walking dictionary.

We aren't allowed Conibears outside of a watercourse or in trees. The people should be glad for that law and buy more fur.

1) They're easier to skin that way.
2) They're not as stubborn.
3) I'm lazy and like to sleep in most days, and then watch Ellen in my nightgown on the sofa.

Question for Walleyed (TMan's resident dictionary). Did I interpret Boco's cogitations correctly here?

Cogitation:Definition:

Noun.

The action of thinking deeply about something, contemplation.

thought, thinking, consideration, mulling over, meditation, study, deliberation, pondering, reflection,

rumination, musing speculation, brooding, agonizing, worrying, puzzling.

Right on target, Mainer.

But, the inner working's of BOCO'S mind are really uncharted territory where no sane

man has gone before !!!

w

So you freely admit to being a troll, and to flaming

your fellow trappers for sport and entertainment ?

That's not very nice, (Or Canadian) of you, BOCO !!!

w

Hundreds per year ?

Or did you mean to say: I've trapped hundreds of them (in my career) with that trap ?

please clarify.

w

The sky is falling...........
everybody prepare and put out all your unsold racoon skins to soften the blow of the fall...........

How many times do you have to beat this dead horse you two.....

C & T for wild fur is like background checks and gun control. Neither one will be of use due to way too many loop holes.

You're making fun of coon? Worse marten market in the last 30 years. Coon doing better than otter, beaver,mink, red fox, ermine. Those all can be added to your soften pile.

I'm not sure the pile is big enough, so we'll add grey fox,lynx, and fisher to the crap pile.

No,Walleyes, stating facts that happen to crank people is just stating facts.Calling people names that don't apply might be.Not really sure what "troll" is.its a word that doesn't really make sense in the way you use it.
My weasel harvest over 40 odd years varies between approximately 30 to 120 in any season depending on effort related to the abundance of the resource in any one year.Not all are taken in the belisle 120,I use other magnum 120's and years ago,the older weaker 120's.I started switching over to the magnum 120's around 1990.
Having the luxury of extended checks means allowing the time necessary for your traps to work without excessive human disturbance thus checking way less empty traps.It also allows time for running more lines,and handling fur,not necessarily watching Fox TV although that is an option.

Sounds like only good species around here for trapping this fall for any $$, larger coon, coyotes, most don't get lot coyotes. Lots coon around, bob cat prices are good, but not that good in Iowa, an restricted trapping them, can't here, rats didn't sell good at last sale, the price is down from.a year ago, I am thinking that rats may only bring$3.50 average upcoming.

That's the whole raw fur market today.

I catch weasels all the time in my bodygrips. No way they are meeting your 80% killing standards. Not in a marten set anyway. Since I was marten trapping, I guess it doesn't count.

I hope no one is considering using this week's NAFA auction as a barometer of the fur market for the coming season. There's mostly very stale, and wild fur that has been pretty well picked over prior to this, not that I'm particularly optimistic about prices for next season........ This post is also primarily for the benefit of the relative newby's on here, I know a lot of the veterans understand what's going on.

Again,they passed,And they cannot be passed unless they meet or exceed the threshold.So you can ask Gibb if they falsified any recorded data,he is on the trdc.
Personally I have never seen any evidence of a weasel living more than a few seconds in a full closure magnum trap regardless of an optimum strike.
Not so with the older weaker poorly made non magnum traps with the large gap between the jaws.

Boco, You do it so smoothly! You notice non-magnum traps also passed with those pesky gaps.

That was my point. I'm sure a magnum double spring bodygrip of that size kills a weasel just fine but why do I need to buy a considerably more expensive trap and a bit more hard to set than using a mrat 110 trap? I've killed plenty of mink with 110s so I'm sure they would sandwich a weasel just fine. Its all about the "keepers" (the gov overloads in Canada land) perception of what is acceptable. I suppose one advantage is that guys like Boco can use a single trap (the 120 mag) to capture everything from marten on down the size list. I certainly don't need that power on mrats, mink, and weasels here...

I didn't say that the non magnums didn't meet the pass threshold,I just said the magnums look to me.as a trapper.to kill them outright.
The traptesting does not give separate time to Irreversible unconsciousness for each trap,just whether they meet the threshold or not.
For a small animal like a weasel,the deciding factor is most likely striking force,as opposed to the measurements of clamping force,which is more critical,I assume, in a larger animal like a marten.
Like I said,Gibb is the expert if you want to understand the aihts traptesting.

In a case like that I think the ability to kill outright by the stronger springs is negated by some weasels not being able to trigger it as easily with such a heavy tension from the stronger springs (avoidance).

Look the BMP"S only tested and recommend rat traps and footholds used as body grippers for weasels as approved killing traps . Put all the springs and zero closure 120's you want out there and most weasels get belly caught and does not kill a weasel just fine. That is my point. No way these traps pass any real standards. Heck I use one of the approved traps. They won't work because the trap is too big to get consistent proper strikes. Use a 330 on coon and it won't work as good as 160 or 220.

Gibb told me this is how it passed.

"Advancements in computer technologies and the accumulation of scientific data through live-animal trap tests conducted at the Vegreville facility has made it possible to develop and use Computer Simulation Models (CSM). The Institute, in partnership with the Alberta Innovates Technology Futures, now uses computer programs that replicate the interaction of a specific species with a computer-drawn trap. By loading all of the data acquired in past research into a specially designed program, CSM enables researchers to “test” a computer-generated trap on a computer-generated animal, which minimizes the number of live animals required for the research. These models are now being used to rate trapping devices. Now nearly 90% of all trap testing at the facility is done using computer simulations. Development of computer simulation models for remaining species is ongoing."

Sounds like they're trying traps out such as supposedly the gov questioned Sully in landing his crippled airliner in the Hudson River...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1fVL4AQEW8

Sure nice to see two of my all time TMAN faves getting along so well. I got off TMAN because Walleyed and Bozo told you all you need to know.

Well, lookie what the cat dragged out of the grain bins !!

Well we're still holding the fort,so its safe to leave again.

As far as I can tell, It has been back and forth all day long.

..........you were gone?

The adversary of my adversary is my friend !!

Tell It, BOCO !!!

w

The Wally and Bobo show.

comin to a chat room near you.

Lot letters are up

Would you rather have your fur sell for 70% of the pre-sale valuation, or sit at NAFA until next January? I've got a cat with a pre-sale valuation of $800 that has set up there since January This is its third offering. I'd be happy if they'd take 4 or 5 hundred for it and be done with it.

Yeah, 70% of pre-sale val would be ok on my last 6 coon, 1 w nc and the other 5 on the first page of w semi-heavy (maybe I'll get another top lot in that region as funny as that is for eastern SD). Good news is my grinners went up in pre-sale val from the May sale, 4.50 for a bigger one, 1.75 for the other 3. Maybe the tide is turning for possums

At this point you be doing good get them sold for that imo.
Hope the best for ya

[quoteAt this point you be doing good get them sold for that imo.Hope the best for ya][/quote]

Yeah, 70% may be too hopeful...

Will this sale have the Top Lots, like the earlier Sales ?

Is that better Dirt........................the sky has fallen in all the other fur. And when 75% of marten are unsold it hurts.

Probably not. I say that because they are not offering any "fresh" lots of wild fur. Everything being offered has been through at least one previous sale.

"Fresh" = goods that have never been through an auction.

I did good with NAFA always have.

Someone help me out. How do you find the pre sale value. I can’t seem to figure it out.

Wissmiss , you really busted my bubble. I thought I finally had a raccoon in top lot. Lol

Download your data. It will be an Excel file.

I not sure download data on presale evaluation works on a phone ? I have 17 coon, 9 rats, 14 mink an 28 possum on sale , a few 5 xl coon of off colors, an 2 of 2-3 color as well as a 4xl- 1 color, I believe not hvy nth an of NC coon, also few 3xl of off color, all sell or no.1 grade, I think all rats well sell an 50/50 chance any at all or all mink sell an some coon sell, they probly have them cleared out pt sale after auction but no check if sell pt later till next year's auction, rats or good rats didn't sell well in June

Items that sell PT right after the auction - within 2 weeks I think - will be paid for on the auction check.

Anything that sells after two weeks and before the middle of October should be paid for the end of October or first part of November.

NAFA's fiscal year ends the end of October and they normally clear the books by paying for everything that has sold.

Oh ya that's right, it also when top lot awards come out or possibly commision sharing profit rebate if any

I haven't seen a rebate in like 5 years.

When company's are making profits,there are usually not bankruptcy rumors floating around.

I guess I have not in 4-5 years either

I almost forgot the auction is tomma, any news on auction. Many buyers attending ?

good luck coonman