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Open Carry

Posted By: rex123

Open Carry - 09/10/19 10:19 PM

Walgreens, CVS, Target and Meijers just joined Kroger and Walmart asking customers to not open carry in their stores.
Posted By: tlguy

Re: Open Carry - 09/10/19 10:52 PM

I just read today that 30,000 people openly carried guns in Walmart since the asked people not to and none of them were asked not to by employees.
Posted By: James

Re: Open Carry - 09/10/19 10:57 PM

Why carry openly? Makes other people nervous, doesn't help keep the public on the side of gun owners.

Jim
Posted By: clintp1971

Re: Open Carry - 09/10/19 11:00 PM

I agree with James. I carry everywhere. No one knows it.
Posted By: white17

Re: Open Carry - 09/10/19 11:05 PM

Same here !!
Posted By: Sharon

Re: Open Carry - 09/10/19 11:10 PM

Same here.
Posted By: robert.d12

Re: Open Carry - 09/10/19 11:10 PM

Agreed.
Posted By: charles

Re: Open Carry - 09/10/19 11:16 PM

Not fond of open carry. A clerk behind a counter - yes. A pharmacist - yes. Even a banker, but I doubt that would be allowed. Not their money anyway.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Open Carry - 09/10/19 11:24 PM

Originally Posted by James
Why carry openly? Makes other people nervous, doesn't help keep the public on the side of gun owners.

Jim


Attention...
Posted By: GritGuy

Re: Open Carry - 09/10/19 11:33 PM

While I understand the right to do so, I've never been a fan of attracting such attention to my self for doing so. I mean seriously who does not ever look at the person open carrying and ask why that need here ?

I would agree that in certain areas of commerce, it might be a great show of changing one's mind about trying to rob or take over the place, if you know that your going to get shot back at. Seeing as most of these place's don't seem to be taking any other kind of preventive matters until after the fact which to me is a lawsuit waiting to happen !

On the flip side, it does no good for a concealed carrier to do so if they pattern their carry, it's as much open as the other, this has always been important to me when carrying !
Posted By: Lugnut

Re: Open Carry - 09/10/19 11:57 PM

Originally Posted by clintp1971
I carry everywhere. No one knows it.


Ditto
Posted By: BigBob

Re: Open Carry - 09/10/19 11:58 PM

I always felt it was too "In Your Face", ESPECIALLY long guns.
Posted By: adam m

Re: Open Carry - 09/11/19 12:01 AM

I conceal carry and remember when open carrying was very common. Sometimes there's young adults who can't even apply for a ccw due to age, but can openly carry. Here ccw allows you to carry in more places than open carry.
Posted By: J Staton

Re: Open Carry - 09/11/19 12:28 AM

Cops open carry, why not citizens? I don't understand why people, especially gun owners, are so against this. It's almost as a person is thought of as bad/criminal, even by gun owners, for open carrying. I myself am for Constitutional carry. No permit required to carry open or concealed. Maybe I see the 2nd and the people who participate in that right in the simplest form as the amendment is written. Don't agree with the group that places stipulations like it must be concealed carry to exercise this right. Now if one is looking for the element of surprise concealed is the way to go.
As for store policy, it's their business do with it as you wish. However, if you turn it into a political statement not supporting the second, as Walmart has done, don't expect me to spend my dollars at your place of business.
Posted By: BigBob

Re: Open Carry - 09/11/19 12:46 AM

Firearms are PART of a cop's duty uniform, I've never seen a cop out of uniform open carry. Missouri has always been open carry, since 1821 when we entered the Union, and any citizen has the right to "tote iron" if they feel like it, however, you can't walk into an urban area 7-11 or Quick Shop packing, and not have your life get very exciting, very quickly. When it was legal I went with a Florida CCW permit, because I didn't feel like having St. Louis Co, know I was carrying or even HAD a firearm.
Posted By: J Staton

Re: Open Carry - 09/11/19 12:54 AM

Bigbob does it bother you to see someone open carry? It's legal here but you don't see it often. However when I do it doesn't bother me. Most people conceal carry to not draw unwanted attention or to have that element of surprise. However for those who open carry, have at it. You may feel it's Part of your duty uniform to exercise your right.
Myself I only open carry when running the trap line. Doesn't bother me to walk in the local store with my pistol strapped to my side. In the hood or unfamiliar area I go concealed.
Posted By: trapperkeck

Re: Open Carry - 09/11/19 12:58 AM

In some states, you have to have a permit to carry concealed, but you do not need a permit to open carry. Nebraska was that way. I never had a concealed carry permit when I lived there because I could carry anywhere it was legal without a permit as long as it was open carried.
Posted By: GritGuy

Re: Open Carry - 09/11/19 01:07 AM

LEO's and other security have the built in notion that they are responsible people trained to carry and do so with that respect given to them for that, however that does not mean they could go postal either at any moment. They also have the right to use lethal force if needs be, civilians have to be way more careful about using that privilege, they have it, but are held to a different level than security forces are when using it.

Civilians on the other hand are always given the doubt thought before understanding the why part. Out in the field I open carry for quicker use when needed, but usually will empty the holster when getting gas, or entering a store for a snack or elsewhere for a meal, even the empty holster draws attention, and thats here where everyone in rural areas grows up with guns.
Posted By: adam m

Re: Open Carry - 09/11/19 01:15 AM

Here you must have a ccw license in order to carry concealed but can open carry. Some people don't want the hassle of the additional background check and fingerprinting the fees etc....
Posted By: BigBob

Re: Open Carry - 09/11/19 01:16 AM

Originally Posted by J Staton
Bigbob does it bother you to see someone open carry?

Only to the point of taking a good look at the individual and assessing. aka: regular Joe/Josephine, or hood rat. Can't say I've ever seen a woman packing openly, and only rarely a man. Again, St. Louis Co., Home of the Libtard Snow flakes.

I do play a game and try to see who's packing and imprinting. Not many show.
Posted By: J Staton

Re: Open Carry - 09/11/19 01:17 AM

GritGuy definitely use common sense when exercising open carry. Unfortunately, some folks aren't blessed with much of it.
Posted By: Getting There

Re: Open Carry - 09/11/19 01:20 AM

Originally Posted by trapperkeck
In some states, you have to have a permit to carry concealed, but you do not need a permit to open carry. Nebraska was that way. I never had a concealed carry permit when I lived there because I could carry anywhere it was legal without a permit as long as it was open carried.


That is the way Michigan is now.
Posted By: GritGuy

Re: Open Carry - 09/11/19 01:25 AM

Yes sad to say they are now day's more seldom than those who do.

It's been said here in a manner of different ways, that if you have a license for concealed, you should not open carry, that it makes your CCW invalid, how that would happen I fail to see when you still have the choice to do so either. It's yet to be challenged in a court, but most instructors here will advise that the question may come up if your ever in a situation, whether you have your CCW license on you or not.

CCW here gives one way more latitude to carry in more places than open ever would now day's. I just don't see the sense in carrying open and arguing about being called on it in front of a whole lot of spectators watching the whole show, but some seem to like this kind of attention or so it seems, especially those walking around with a rifle strapped upside down over their shoulder !
Posted By: Getting There

Re: Open Carry - 09/11/19 01:27 AM

If the big box stores do not want open carry because it is costing them business they will just have them declared SAFE ZONES. Now your canceled carry is gone. Sure you can do your best to cancel but IF you are caught you broke the law. JMO
Posted By: Getting There

Re: Open Carry - 09/11/19 01:32 AM

As far as Open Carry, not in favor in some area's. Why would I want to carry a Colt 45 tied down going out to dinner with my wife in the middle of the city. If it is a bad area stay out of there to start with. JMO but you have that right!
Posted By: canebrake

Re: Open Carry - 09/11/19 01:50 AM

You won't see what I carry. I support 100% the right to open carry, but 90% of the people doing it are nothing but rednecks trying to get attention and be a tough guy. And they'll be the first ones to get sucker punched by a bad guy.
Posted By: white17

Re: Open Carry - 09/11/19 02:08 AM

Originally Posted by J Staton
Bigbob does it bother you to see someone open carry?


It bothers me for several reasons.

1.I think , as James said, it makes others nervous and is lousy PR for firearms in general.
2. I can't understand anyone wanting to give up the element of surprise. It makes no sense tactically.
3. This is the really big one for me..... if I see someone walk into a restaurant where I am eating, and he is open carrying......I don't know which side this guy is on. Now, regardless of how ravishing my dinner date is, I have to pay attention to this clown that has some hawgleg on his hip, rather than the hot little number across the table !!
Posted By: GREENCOUNTYPETE

Re: Open Carry - 09/11/19 02:47 AM

Originally Posted by James
Why carry openly? Makes other people nervous, doesn't help keep the public on the side of gun owners.

Jim



A right un-exercised is a right lost! that is why

keeping the public aware that law abiding gun owners are real and there in their every day and cause no harm is an aid , if we just hide int he darkness then we are whatever they say we are.

but if we stand in the light , present ourselves well then they can see we are just people and not the monsters the politicians, media and antis paint us as.

just like when someone realizes that fur is a renewable resource that , we take largely from the excess population that would starve in an over populated habitat . the look on their face when you stick your hand with just a work glove on into a foot hold and you haven't lost any fingers broken any bones , your not bleeding. suddenly they realize the lies they have been told that they have believed wrongly.

when they are talking to the father of 2 well behaved little girls in the checkout line then spot your gun and your not a monster , your a loving parent who only wishes to insure the safety of your family.

it changes their paradigm.
Posted By: Calvin

Re: Open Carry - 09/11/19 04:04 AM

Open carry guys (in public places) are just showboaters….period.

Tactically it's like playing poker and showing your cards. So it has nothing to do with keeping people safe...it's about attention.
Posted By: ApocalypticGoatH

Re: Open Carry - 09/11/19 04:41 AM

Originally Posted by GREENCOUNTYPETE
[quote=James]Why carry openly? Makes other people nervous, doesn't help keep the public on the side of gun owners.

Jim



A right un-exercised is a right lost! that is why

keeping the public aware that law abiding gun owners are real and there in their every day and cause no harm is an aid , if we just hide int he darkness then we are whatever they say we are.

but if we stand in the light , present ourselves well then they can see we are just people and not the monsters the politicians, media and antis paint us as.

just like when someone realizes that fur is a renewable resource that , we take largely from the excess population that would starve in an over populated habitat . the look on their face when you stick your hand with just a work glove on into a foot hold and you haven't lost any fingers broken any bones , your not bleeding. suddenly they realize the lies they have been told that they have believed wrongly.

when they are talking to the father of 2 well behaved little girls in the checkout line then spot your gun and your not a monster , your a loving parent who only wishes to insure the safety of your family.

it changes their paradigm.

[/

You could accomplish the same thing with a tee shirt expressing your support for an uninfringed second amendment.
Also more likely to have a meaningful conversation with them.
Posted By: J Staton

Re: Open Carry - 09/11/19 11:11 AM

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear concealed Arms, shall not be infringed. smile
Posted By: Lugnut

Re: Open Carry - 09/11/19 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by gray dog
A right un-exercised is a right lost! that is why.


I exercise my 2A right every single day. I choose not to advertise it.
Posted By: 330-Trapper

Re: Open Carry - 09/11/19 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by J Staton
Cops open carry, why not citizens? I don't understand why people, especially gun owners, are so against this. It's almost as a person is thought of as bad/criminal, even by gun owners, for open carrying. I myself am for Constitutional carry. No permit required to carry open or concealed. Maybe I see the 2nd and the people who participate in that right in the simplest form as the amendment is written. Don't agree with the group that places stipulations like it must be concealed carry to exercise this right. Now if one is looking for the element of surprise concealed is the way to go.
As for store policy, it's their business do with it as you wish. However, if you turn it into a political statement not supporting the second, as Walmart has done, don't expect me to spend my dollars at your place of business.

All exactly as I see it.
Posted By: bowhunter27295

Re: Open Carry - 09/11/19 11:26 AM

Originally Posted by clintp1971
I agree with James. I carry everywhere. No one knows it.


Yep.

Open carry only makes you the first threat/target of an armed criminal.
Posted By: EdP

Re: Open Carry - 09/11/19 11:45 AM

The request from the big stores seems perfectly reasonable to me. They are not asking that no one carry in their stores, only that they do not do it openly. Here in Va, also in Tn and a number of other states, they could post a no gun signs and then even carrying concealed would be a violation of the law (misdemeanor in Va). That's not what they are doing. Instead they are respecting our 2nd Amendment rights while recognizing that seeing guns carried openly makes some of their clients uncomfortable.

My opinion on open carry is that it should only be done where open carry is a commonly accepted practice. One example being the carrying of rifles or large handguns as part of normal business for protection against wild animals. The firearms involved in that instance are very difficult to conceal. Another example would be people who own land and work along our southern border and are in constant danger from criminals running drugs or human traffic. That limits the places where I think open carry is appropriate to very few communities.

Carrying openly where it is not common and accepted makes others uncomfortable. Doing it just because it is legal does damage to the image of gun owners as reasonable and responsible citizens. I carry most everywhere I go when it is legal, and I do it concealed.
Posted By: upstateNY

Re: Open Carry - 09/11/19 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by Calvin
Open carry guys (in public places) are just showboaters….period.

Tactically it's like playing poker and showing your cards.

Maybe open carry is like showing your royal straight flush..Might keep some yahoos from trying to call your hand. :)I think it should be up to the individual.Open carry doesn't bother me,,but I carry concealed myself.
Posted By: Marty

Re: Open Carry - 09/11/19 12:07 PM

More and more being in possession of a handgun for your own safety in public is being vilified. It is a waypoint to the eventual goal of banning gun ownership. If everyone open carried a handgun maybe these mass shooters would be put down fast when they decide to kill a bunch of innocent folk.
Posted By: Diggerman

Re: Open Carry - 09/11/19 01:02 PM

Originally Posted by James
Why carry openly? Makes other people nervous, doesn't help keep the public on the side of gun owners.

Jim

Some people, yes. Not me.
Posted By: K52

Re: Open Carry - 09/11/19 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by J Staton
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear concealed Arms, shall not be infringed. smile


Sure are a lot of people on here that kinda support the 2nd. until it makes someone else "uncomfortable or nervous."
Posted By: gryhkl

Re: Open Carry - 09/11/19 01:08 PM

I think open carry in public places does great damage to gun owners. There is no need for it.
I nearly all cases, I think the guy "proudly" displaying his gun is doing it simply for the attention. Something is lacking in his life.
Posted By: GREENCOUNTYPETE

Re: Open Carry - 09/11/19 01:29 PM

you have to understand the Wisconsin situation some to understand there is a place for OPEN carry.

Wisconsin has been an open carry state since it's beginning. never since 1848 has it been illegal to open carry.

so when concealed carry was vetoed by the governor and held up in the assembly several times before that. the people of WI took to well researched open carry. It like the first amendment is a tool for change.

the chose wisely the places , they knew their rights and they open carried while at the same time recording everything with digital voice recorders.

they let the police repeatedly harass and arrest them for disorderly conduct. then they sued the cities who had arrested them and the won , over and over and over again. costing these cities repeated legal and judgment expenses.

at the same time some were illegally concealed carrying but then needing to use their gun to fend off attack. cases where the prohibition on concealed carry was decided unconstitutional as it applied to those cases were mounting.

these pressures lead to a quick effort to keep control and act 35 of 2011 was passed before we had defacto concealed carry.

shall issue , 40 dollars for your first 5 years , 22 dollars for each additional 5 years , very few restrictions , may open or conceal carry.

it has a place. and no a t-shirt does not have the same effect.
Posted By: seniortrap

Re: Open Carry - 09/11/19 01:32 PM

If you think "open carry" is beneficial to public opinion, your possibly wrong!

CCW in public does not alarm people. The "BAD" that wish to rob or whatever will be surprised at best.

It isn't any different than someone carrying around a sword, sheathed. Still the onset of "question" of why is it being shown?

I think the "ACT" of walking into a public place brandishing your weapon of choice is childish for attention.
Posted By: Kart29

Re: Open Carry - 09/11/19 02:09 PM

I hate to open carry because it makes me feel very self-conscious and I don't enjoy drawing any attention to myself.

However, I fully agree with GREENCOUNTYPETE (as always) that if the population was accustomed to seeing a fair percentage of the folks walking around armed, they would be acclimated to it and consider it normal. Imagine if all the folks that now carry concealed had all been carrying open for the past 50 years. Everyone in America would think that having civilians walking around with pistols was entirely normal and common. As it is now, when a person is seen with a pistol on their belt, most of the the population will be nervous and fearful. Meanwhile, they don't realize the high number of guns already surrounding them that they can't see.

If more people were less ashamed of carrying a gun and allowed other folks to see it, maybe the general population wouldn't think carrying a gun is so abnormal.

Personally, I'm far less concerned about the danger presented by people I see carrying a sidearm than I am by the people who might be concealing a weapon.

I also find it strange to think that people will put up signs warning would be criminals about the presence of video surveillance, alarm systems, dogs on premises, etc. Advertising each of those defensive measures is considered a viable deterrent to crime. But open carrying a defensive firearm is commonly considered a defensive disadvantage. I'm not sure that's as much the case as most people seem to think. Criminals are lazy, weak, and prefer to prey on the most defenseless. They seek and select the easiest targets. I think it would be very rare indeed that a criminal would target and armed person in preference to someone who appears to be unarmed.
Posted By: jbyrd63

Re: Open Carry - 09/11/19 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by tlguy
I just read today that 30,000 people openly carried guns in Walmart since the asked people not to and none of them were asked not to by employees.


Ok who was counting LOL
The same people that had Billary up by 23% on election night LOL LOL
Posted By: gryhkl

Re: Open Carry - 09/11/19 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by tlguy
I just read today that 30,000 people openly carried guns in Walmart since the asked people not to and none of them were asked not to by employees.


I thought "real" gun owners are boycotting Walmart. whistle
Posted By: jbyrd63

Re: Open Carry - 09/11/19 02:19 PM

LOL some of you guys have no clue. You say "Been this way since the 1800' " . Well guys THIS AIN"T THE 1800's !!!!!!!!!! Those laws where made when the population was about 1/10 it is now. Kids where not raised on video games and ridilen !!!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Open Carry - 09/11/19 03:50 PM

I have the right to cuss my mama out...but that doesn’t make it a good idea.
Posted By: K52

Re: Open Carry - 09/11/19 04:02 PM

Originally Posted by seniortrap
If you think "open carry" is beneficial to public opinion, your possibly wrong!

CCW in public does not alarm people. The "BAD" that wish to rob or whatever will be surprised at best.

It isn't any different than someone carrying around a sword, sheathed. Still the onset of "question" of why is it being shown?

I think the "ACT" of walking into a public place brandishing your weapon of choice is childish for attention.


So if you open carry you are now " brandishing your weapon" ? WOW.
Posted By: loosegoose

Re: Open Carry - 09/11/19 04:21 PM

When I carry, I only open carry. I don't have a ccw, and I refuse to pay for one. The license is 100, plus a minimum 80 for the class, plus a belt, and a holster, and perhaps a smaller gun, and we're talking a minimum of 500-600, all for the privilege, not right (you don't have to apply for and pay for rights), to tuck it under my shirt instead of on top of my shirt. No thanks. I refuse to pay for and apply for a license for something that should be my right to do anyway.

I don't carry all the time, mostly while fishing, trapping, etc. Sometimes a semiauto pistol in a kydex holster, sometimes a revolver in a leather holster. The revolver in a leather holster gets more stares, for some reason. I don't care if it presents a bad image or telegraphs my intent,I'm not going to pay money and apply for permission to make someone more comfortable.
Posted By: SleekOtter

Re: Open Carry - 09/11/19 04:25 PM

If you open carry you're just trying to attract attention to yourself. More importantly, if you open carry you're inviting a bad guy to make sure he shoots you first THEN mops up the rest of the unarmed people. Action beats reaction and you will likely be shot at before you can pull your gun.
Posted By: Sharon

Re: Open Carry - 09/11/19 05:24 PM

I know for a certainty , at least one other in the Tribe feels the same as I smile . I'm sure there's more . It isn't open carry that bothers them , they appreciate and agree with the point of the 2nd entirely.

It's only in the circumstance of dealing with possible encounters and actions in public....it's a strategic mindset , not at all in disagreement with open carry .

To have the element of advantage in case of needed action .

The one who attempts harm on others in a public setting will never see ahead of time , another who carries concealed , so as to focus on that individual first , no doubt from a cowardly distance preferred , similar to their bravado keyboard social media mentality .

Concealed carriers do so, not from yielding to anyone who wishes every place to be a soft target , who are offended to see an armed law abiding citizen . It is to have vital tactical advantage in unfortunate events .

All things may be lawful, but not advantageous . Discernment with a calm heart is a thing of beauty.

When not in public, I do open carry all the time. In the outback, riding , driving , etc. In the small towns of Montana , so many do open carry that it is a normal way of life to see this . Idaho too.

As was mentioned earlier, it varies with population and custom of the area.

Both preferences are held dear, with full respect .
Posted By: upstateNY

Re: Open Carry - 09/11/19 05:36 PM

I have no problem with someone exercising their constitutional rights any way they see fit.To each their own.
Posted By: hippie

Re: Open Carry - 09/11/19 05:42 PM

Had a feller come in my shop today packing open.
I said, nice gun! smile
Posted By: GREENCOUNTYPETE

Re: Open Carry - 09/11/19 05:55 PM

if you think you will need the strategic hand in things , by all means concealed carry.

I absolutely agree especially at risk persons should keep any advantage they have.

however with only extremely rare occasions is open carry really giving up much advantage , in those cases the gun was the item of theft , you know it is so easy to get a gun these days (yes sarcasm on the media and politicians) that criminals have in some cases taken to ambushing armed people who open carry. Yes police cars have been targeted for the guns they hold also not that you will hear about it. they could get shot but they are willing to take that risk when using a 2 part ambush person walks around a corner to a gun in his face and the 2nd party is following close behind and grabs the gun.


if open carry hurt gun owners the way some of you seem to think it does why wouldn't the antis want you to open carry, the truth is open carry keeps people realizing there are good people with guns.
much the way your positive promotion of trapping with no trapping public makes them see you as a human and not a nameless villain who kill animals for your amusement as the antis would have them believe.

they want anything that cuts into your way of life forcing you to be like them. Antis are not for freedom of speech , nor freedom of religion religion , not for Your 4th amendment protection , they are plane and simple Zealots who only want the system to work for them.

I am borrowing this since I though he pointed it out very well with a comparison , this is a comparison of cultural shift using recent history.
think about it as a cultural shift.

[quote]

This is NOT a comment on gay rights or same sex marriage. Its just an observation and comparison.

People celebrated in the 90's when BILL CLINTON signed DOMA (the defense of marriage act)

They thought that was a win and heterosexual marriage would be protected. They were wrong. The pro gay marriage crowd went about making a CULTURAL change. Because (like I've said for months) legislation does NOT lead cultural change. It FOLLOWS cultural change. By the time the legislators glom on to a movement, it had to have already succeeded in becoming popular with the voting majority.

The gay rights movement set about normalizing people to gay rights. Through gay rights marches, through introducing same sex couples into pop culture (movies, television) People began to sympathize with same sex couples. People got used to SEEING same sex couples. Entire television shows centered around the gay lifestyle and glorified homosexuality. (queer eye for the straight guy) and many others...

Where-by at one time people said 'hey do what you want in your bedroom, but I don't want to see it and I don't want my kids to see it became".. "its on TV everywhere, its in movies... My kids have seen it.. oh... whatever... don't care anymore"

THEN all of a sudden when the cultural shift had ALREADY occurred. Obama.. Clinton.. the rest. ALL OF A SUDDEN they flip flopped on same sex marriage. It had become popular with the majority (or was clearly soon to be) and they glommed on to a cultural change AFTER it actually occurred.

AGAIN. THIS IS NOT A CRITICISM OR ENDORSEMENT OF GAY MARRIAGE. Its an observation.

Concealed carry FINALLY passed in every state. Constitutional carry passed in many states. The USSC ruled favorably in the Heller and McDonald decisions (though Heller left ALL kinds of room... TOO MUCH in fact, for states to pass many many restrictions on carry rights and gun rights in the name of 'public safety') (an error that I believe some day will come back to haunt us BIG LEAGUE)

But I'd say 2010 up until Sandy Hook... That was the PEAK of the gun rights movement. It reached its high point. I even recall early in Obammy's first term there were "mass shootings" and reporters asked him what they were going to do and the FIRST words out of his mouth were "well... we are gonna respect the second amendment" and he didn't have much more to say.

I'm here to tell you... THINGS HAVE CHANGED. We are not winning. We are not advancing gun freedoms. The momentum has UNDOUBTEDLY shifted.

Concealed carry laws won't protect gun rights (just like DOMA didn't protect traditional marriage)

A cultural shift against guns IS occurring. Sandy Hook hit the brakes on the advancement of gun rights. Starbucks major "dis" of open carry AND GUNS IN GENERAL was a foreshadowing. (they asked customers not to bring ANY guns in their stores.. open or concealed) They paid NO economic price for their major slap in the face of gun owners. Concelaed carry folks blamed the open carry folks and shot friendly fire at open carriers and went and bought their $5 starbucks anyway. Starbucks dissed guns BIG and got away with it. I said it at the time. THAT was monumental. But Sandy Hook hit the brakes on gun rights advancement, Las Vegas (Mandalay Bay) shoved the transmission in reverse, and Parkland Florida hit the accelerator.

The public schools have been doing their part for the last 30 years demonizing guns AND non-guns (pictures of guns, hand gestures in the representation of a gun, etc)

We now see republicans falling over themselves to try to come up with a "better gun control mousetrap".

If you don't see the tide has shifted, you need to step out of the desert.

WE MUST create a cultural shift to support gun rights. For the past several months I've been suggesting 2 ways to do it. FIRST open carry. Its a daily missionary to "good guys with guns"... Open carry dispells the myth and indoctrination kids get in schools that guns are evil when they walk in (walmart) and see a good guy with a gun on his hip. Nothing bad happens. His/her teachers were full of (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman).

Well... with the avalanche of ALL these major retail chains banning open carry. That strategy/tactic to drive cultural change has taken a mega blow.

So how are we going to drive cultural change? So that guns become popular? Something politicians fall over themselves to EMBRACE with legislation?

We don't have mass media. TV news isn't going to tell our story or advocate for right to carry/self defense, and SURELY not the true purpose of the 2nd amendment?

TV shows will NOT begin to show citizens using a concealed carry gun and saving their life. (television and movies would have NO plot if the innocent victims were armed!)

So people want to bash open carry. people want to claim the avalanche of retail stores banning OC is "no big deal" and concern over it is "making a mountain out of a mole hill" (we got that on here in this group today too)

like I said a few paragraphs ago WE ARE LOSING. The tide HAS shifted. Shall-issue laws WON'T protect your gun rights.

Universal background checks/Universal gun registry IS coming if we don't turn the tide.

Red flag laws WILL drastically affect law-abiding gun owners as flying a (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman) gadsden flag will get you "red flagged".

"mental health" proposals introduced by republicans will be hijacked by democrats and expanded so that ANYONE with the slightest HINT of a mental health issue (anxiety/depression) RED FLAG.. take your guns. (and they'll all be registered with UNIVERSAL BACKGROUND CHECKS so they know exactly what you own.

And an Assault Weapons Ban like you've never seen before WILL be coming

(and it will be RETROactive) (and with universal gun registry in place) they will be able to force compliance.

The next AWB won't "grandfather" already owned guns. They will come get them.

[\quote]
Posted By: Sharon

Re: Open Carry - 09/11/19 05:57 PM

Originally Posted by hippie
Had a feller come in my shop today packing open.
I said, nice gun! smile



grin grin

Ive done that too ! Guess where............a WM in N Idaho , several years ago. An older couple , he was carrying his .45. An instant bond was appreciated. He pointed to a grey haired typical "lil old lady " a few feet away and said she's carrying too- in her purse ! The epitome of the element of surprise . She didn't look that "type" at all.

We all had a grand visit in the ribeye steak section of the isle smile

She peered over the rim of her glasses with a pleasant grandma smile and said so sweet...." Its our constitutional RIGHT ..." I smiled and kept from laughing solely at how cute and sweet she was in saying that.

We left with a handshake and the beloved quote : " An armed society is a polite society . "

The instant bond in friendship felt, knowing we would have each other's 6 in a moment . Imagine that . cool
Posted By: hippie

Re: Open Carry - 09/11/19 06:03 PM

Yep, he pulled it and let me fondle it. cool

Now i want one!!!!!!
Posted By: Sharon

Re: Open Carry - 09/11/19 06:09 PM

laugh Yes sir ! Like me, with some firearms and haaarses ! grin
Posted By: KeithC

Re: Open Carry - 09/11/19 08:35 PM

Open carry bothers me less than poorly concealed carry. If someone is open carrying, I figure they are highly unlikely to do anything wrong with their firearm, because they have given up the element of surprise. They are too likely to be noticed by law enforcement and just regular people, who then focus on them.

When I notice someone concealed carrying in a holster that is appropriately strapped to their body, I pay them little attention either.

When I see someone with a poorly concealed loose gun in a coat pocket, waist band or in one case a sock, they get a lot of my attention.

Keith
Posted By: GREENCOUNTYPETE

Re: Open Carry - 09/11/19 08:48 PM

Originally Posted by KeithC
Open carry bothers me less than poorly concealed carry. If someone is open carrying, I figure they are highly unlikely to do anything wrong with their firearm, because they have given up the element of surprise. They are too likely to be noticed by law enforcement and just regular people, who then focus on them.

When I notice someone concealed carrying in a holster that is appropriately strapped to their body, I pay them little attention either.

When I see someone with a poorly concealed loose gun in a coat pocket, waist band or in one case a sock, they get a lot of my attention.

Keith


if you see them concealed carrying I think it safe to say they are doing it wrong.

many now condealed-ish carry , holster as you put it appropriately strapped to their body, but their cover garment isn't exactly working over time , they are only hiding from those really not paying attention. they are barely trying to conceal.

your third group poorly concealing those you should be paying attention to , as they say crooks seldom use holsters.


funny thing is the guy I know who conceals the worst , is a cop. why , because his department requires a level 2 retention holster all the times so he doesn't work very hard at it he clips his badge next to his gun in a OWB cheap blackhawk serpa holster and bulges away.
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