State Electrical Inspector......ARGH

Who knows the ropes? I had no idea how controlling they are. Im turning my shop into a living quarters. What a pain! Hes telling me I have to wire for 220V heating. Id rather use a small propane stove and wood stove. How can I get around this?

Every outlet has to be tamper resistant. Within 6 ft of water has to be GFCI also. Bathroom has to be on one circuit. Kitchen, minimum of two circuits. Outlet 6' from one corner of a room, then every 12' around the room
MANDATORY. Ridiculous.

Except for the tamper resistant thing these all seem reasonable. We have done those since the early 80s.

"Please be advised that according to state law, permits and inspections for wiring of single family dwellings are only legally required if a new electrical service is installed. You may leave the system now, if you are not installing a new electrical service, and do not wish to have the wiring you're installing inspected, if it's not a requirement of law. If you wish to have the work you're doing inspected regardless of whether it's legally required, please click the 'Continue' button, and inspections will be conducted per your request. All electrical work, whether permits and inspections are legally required or not, must comply with the electrical code, and the inspector will require wiring deficiencies to be repaired in either case."

That's copied and pasted straight from the state of Nebraska electrical permit application website. Basically you can do your own wiring without a permit and inspection, if it's your own house, as long as you're not installing a new service (new wiring from the pole to the building). I'm in the (very slow) process of changing wiring in my home from knob and tube to modern wiring, one room, one circuit at a time. It'll be years before it's all done. Always do your work up to code, of course, but you don't necessarily need a permit and inspection in Nebraska.

I didn't know they could tell you what kinda heat you had to use.. that seems little over the top. Wood I know they get weird about in some places more so your insurance people. But why no propane? What if you wanted to do a pellet stove? lot folks here in town have those.


Mac

I have never heard of making anyone wire for a heating system they don't plan to use.

I believe that the bathroom circuit is to be on a GFIC Breaker so the whole room is protected. Some States will not allow wood as the primary heat source, thus the electric heat suggestion. Electric radiant floor heat fits the bill.

I think all outlets near any water or outside have to be GFCI protected. If it was my house I'd do that even if code did not call for it. The 12' max between out lets is to lessen the chance that extension cords will be used. Most corded items will 6'.

All kitchen, bathroom, garage, laundry rooms, and basement units have to be GFCI protected, Pretty much every other location has to be AFCI protected...bedrooms, living rooms, closets, halls, etc. Kitchen needs 2 separate appliance circuits, each bathroom needs it's own circuit, at least one lighting circuit for every 600 square feet, kitchen outlets no more than 4 feet away on every counter at least 12 inches deep, one outlet in every hallway more than 10 feet long, all outlets must be no more than 12 feet apart, any wall more than 24" long needs an outlet, Pretty much every fixed appliance gets it's own circuit, make sure your boxes are sized appropriately, etc etc etc. There's tons of rules to follow. Follow the safety rules so your house doesn't burn down, but you don't need an inspector.

There are articles in the NEC that are exasperating... And there are loopholes that are mind-blowing.

If you have a room with a shower/tub and toilet WE would call it a bathroom... But by NEC standards unless there is a sink/basin in there, then it isn't a bathroom.

The NEC is set up to offer a basic standard, but remember that your local inspector can supersede code for whatever reason they deem necessary. So asking what HE (or she) is willing to accept can help you more than asking us what code allows.

I haven't decided if AFCI's live up to the hype and expense yet... But there is no doubt in my mind about GFCI's saving lives... They have saved me from a pretty nasty shock or potentially death more than once.

Mike

You would like working in North Brook ILL

never more than 6 feet of flexible conduit otherwise hard conduit , everything is hard wired for appliances including the microwave

this is the commercial code from 24 years ago last time I worked down there

So, Gary, what would you like to do (get away with)? I guess, I have always wired everything myself and never worried about inspectors. Are you running a new service wire from the pole or are you tying into the panel in your home? If you are running from an existing panel (breaker box) you should be able to do what you want without inspection. You might have more trouble if you have to get the power company involved to run a new service from the pole.

I've rewired my house and additions I put on being the owner I pulled the permit and had it inspected for insurance and re-sale reasons over the last 45 years of re-modeling my old house I've met all kinds of inspectors some were very helpful then there was the other kind

May be in Ne , but in Ky only kitchen outlets on the wall the sink is on have to be GFCI . Laundry no (figure that one). As for the arc fault breakers EVERYONE is leaving them in until inspected then switching back over to standard. Appliances , hair dryer , etc will kick them out . Pain in the butt.
But if you are not pulling a permit for new service than it doesn't need inspecting unless you want peace of mind.....

Also when you say living quarters what do you mean. Kid get divorced moving back in,? Wife kicking you out ? I would want it inspected if someone I loved was sleeping in it ... I'm a liscensed electrician and if someone in my family was sleep in it it would be inspected. Another set of eyes to make sure it is safe.......

All inside work?

Should've just done what you wanted to do. I will never get a permit to do anything to my house/shop that isn't adding on.(outside footprint.)

“May be in Ne , but in Ky only outlets on the wall the sink is on have to be GFCI.”

I find this hard to believe. The NEC requires a gfci within 6’ of the edge of the sink. KY can not disregard the NEC requirements. Only go above and beyond the code.

I agree the tamper resistance covers is weird, here depending on the situation we go between 4 and 6 feet between outlets, gfci in the kitchen, bathroom, outside and in laundry rooms. The 220 power for heat maybe to stop the use of milk house heaters, but I do know here a lot depends on the inspector you get on how hard they are on you.

New service...thats what got all the attention. Im doing what it takes to get along.

That's bummer Gary.

Gate your property and tell them you're amish

And it could be that some treat you depending upon the way they are treated by you.
The electrical code may have a little overkill written into it but That's better than the other way around.
Now some of the building code in places can be a little much.

Just wire it all up and bury it behind sheetrock, then call the power company to energize the meter/panel, then, ask for forgiveness.

That stinks. Last barn I built I got a residential permit and went through all of that. This barn I'm building is a ag permit and they said here you go and handed me the permit and waived all the fees and inspections. Thats how we roll here apparently. Good luck. Alot of people get in a tizzy about what the inspector "makes" them do. Usually its not that big of deal and you can just do it so it passes. But man some people go on an on how they got screwed over by the inspector. I never really understood it.

Ok what about the wall ACROSS from the sink ??? The refrigerator plug? Plugs Around the stove ? NONE have to be GFCI .... UNLESS close to the sink.

You yourself stated WHY they don't have to be GFCI KEY word 6FEET within sink !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not just getting along it's the law. 99.9 % of the electrical codes are for safety. Now are some of them ridiculus ? Yep . The reason they require a 200 amp service is because the potential for future add -ons. PLUS this may sound funny but when you check on the prices a 200 amp service with breakers will normally cost less than 100 amp. Lots of companies and supply houses have package deals where the breakers come with the panel.

My wiring book (not the NEC code book, but a book about wiring based on the 2017-2020 NEC) says that all kitchen small appliance circuits have to be GFCI, and there has to be 2 20amp small appliance circuits. Seems to me the easiest thing to do would be to wire them up using regular outlets and GFCI breakers, and not worry about what exact locations have to be GFCI. Better safe than sorry.

I wired my kitchen with 2 20 amp gfis and the other outlets down stream in series of those, making the whole kitchen gfi protected. I did so AFTER consulting with my electrician.

The changes the OP mentioned do not seem absurd to me. Shop codes are different than living space over here.

After a lifetime of work I'm glad to see SOME codes rather than farmer built.
(easy, I like farmers)

I do feel the pain. At this time I am struggling to come up with a railing for outside steps. Legal seems to equal $$$

Issue is cost. GFCI breakers are more expensive than plugs. Plus you can daisy chain all the plugs on a kitchen counter around the sink with just one plug. Same for garage and out side outlets. Most jobs we do the garage outlets and the ones out side the house are on one circuit. RUN thru one GFCI plug located in the garage. Heck until 2017 dish washer and / or garbage disposals didn't even have to be GFCI and they where under the sink .

X2

Read your own quote. You say Ky only requires them on the wall the sink is on. It doesn’t matter where the sink is at, bathrooms require GFCI protection period, doesn’t matter how far from the sink they are.

I did read my own QUOTE !!! The question was the KITCHEN !!!!!!!!!!!!! Not all plugs are within 6 ft of the sink ..... Of course the bathroom is required hard to have an outlet that is that far away from the sink . toilet , shower or tub

IN THE KITCHEN

also when you think you have all the outlets you will need add 3-4 more . LOL

Thought I had all I needed, then got to the washing machine outlet,,,
the famous one more trip to the store.

Daisy chain is the term I should have used rather than down stream.

Mechanicals, plumbing electric etc, are not that difficult, but those guys with the van full of fittings and parts, that's cheating lol.

If the first outlet in a circuit is protected by a gfci, the downstream outlets are protected by it, correct?

Yes, as long as you wire it correctly. The wires from the electrical panel and the wires to the other outlets have to go in the correct places on the GFCI outlet (marked "line" and "load"). IF you do it backwards, everything will still work but you won't have GFCI protection.

My understanding is that using a GFCI breaker causes less nuisance tripping than using a GFCI outlet and then wiring a bunch of outlets after it. The more outlets after, the more nuisance tripping you may experience.

Thanks loosegoose. I thought so.

Do you wish to insure it? Probably will need to be code and a licensed installer.

Good lord. I’m glad we don’t have codes. What a pain in the rear!!

I don't see how they can make you wire it for electric heat Gary. Allot of extra expense you won't use.

When I built my garage, I wired one wall with outlets and then had them hook me up so I had power to complete the building. They only checked that day and were never back.

seeing some of the stuff i have fixed over the years that harryhomeowner did, kinda like having some of the codes

Nothing to that electrical stuff!

Doubt he meant he HAD to wire it for electrical heat, but instead just that he had to put a 200 amp breaker box since it was going to by considered a "living" quarters. Sometimes people get too old or crippled up to use wood/ pellet stoves. Then the heat can be added IF the service can handle it.
You guys do realize that 220 circuits can be gotten off of any electric panel that is 208 / 120 coming into a house. The double pole breaker makes that possible. So if he has 2 extra breakers in his box he has 220 heat circuit as long as the main is big enough for all that is in that.
Asking for 220 is not the end of the world. LOL Heck any 100 amp barn panel that only uses 2breakers for lights and 2 breakers for plugs is wired for 220 heat source

Not really , As long as his panel has enough amps available and he has an empty spot for a double pole breaker

I think the craziest thing in this thread is that people still refer to 240v as 220v. Europe has 220v, the US has 240v. Here it is actually 248v, and 124v.
Referring to American power outlets as 110v or 220v is pretty dated.
Does this make me an electrical grammar Nazi?

Maybe were you are but around here 108 volts / 215 is about all you can read if you put a tester to it. You do realize the numbers are the rating not actual voltage don't you ?

Bet a 180v wild leg would really have you scratching your head !!! LOL

Man you are in foley Ala . LOVE that place . Cactus cantina best mex restaurant I ever ate at. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Around here we run closer to 125/250. But, the power supplier refers to their supply as 110/220.

If you have a 208/120 panel, a double pole breaker is going to give you 208, not 220. A single pole breaker will give you 120, but a 2 pole breaker will give you 208

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Bet a 180v wild leg would really have you scratching your head !!! LOL
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Yes, actually it would. I'll have to read up on that. Thanks!

You are only going to get a wild leg in Delta, "Y" has no wild leg.

Does the National Electric Code not apply to some states? Asking for a friend.

I imagine there still are some places that have no building codes. It would take one heck of a search to find out what counties, in which states, did not have building codes, but I bet there are some.

I believe any state codes override the NEC. I recommend checking with your state.

Yes. But every outlet in the house has to be tamper resistant as well.