Driving deer is unsafe

Every now and then I see someone post about driving deer as a means of hunting them. I submit that it's an unsafe practice.

I was taught never to aim or fire when anyone is in front of the gun, as defined by a half circle, or 180 degrees in front of me. I don't see how you can drive deer without violating this rule.

Every Ohio deer hunting outfitter I've talked to bans driving as too dangerous. Yeah, when I was young and foolish, I participated in deer drives. The one time I almost saw a guy get killed deer hunting was when we were driving. And yeah, the shooter was stupid to fire a round into a tree next to the driver--but that's the point. There's always someone who gets excited when he sees a buck and does something stupid. The Dick Cheneys are out there, and they don't always stick to quail hunting.

When I was a kid we used to drive fox. A bunch of guys would be dropped off in a big circle off of various roads, and we'd all walk toward the center. But we all had to use shotguns with #2 shot, and the fox was usually killed at considerable range from the guys on the other side of the circle. Don't ask me why they used a hundred guys to do what one trapper could accomplish, but that's another subject.

Jim

Agreed, but it is still legal here so I say it should be permitted. I personally don’t encourage it though. We use it here for some managed hunts and I think it is unsafe so I don’t participate.

James, do you have any stats to back up your gut feeling or just using conjecture.

For the record, I haven't participated in a deer drive in 20 years.

That's just BS. When I was a kid every farmer and his friends set up deer drives and pushed every piece of woods In the area. We did It for 20 some year's AND NO ONE EVER GOT SHOT.

terrain plays into it a lot , when you have a good hillside you are pushing the deer over and down they are shooting into the hill.


caution and discipline must be used but it can be done safely

no one said you had to shoot at each other , the outside drivers are often doing the shooting of the squirters that come out the sides

say your driving an 80 that is 440 yards wide and 880 yards long next to this mix of juniper and pot holes , mixed hard woods and apple trees from a long over grown orchard is a 80 acre hay field and the 2 are separated by a 5 foot high stone wall.

you can put a person 30 yards the other side of that wall and when the deer make a run for it click click click over the stone pile wall that person waits till they are strait out from that wall before shooting.
those deer most commonly run across the hay field to 2 openings in the next stone fence , if you have the extra guy you tuck him in so that the deer get through that opening and he has a shot at them.

I tell you I would much rather be hunting with my own crew on drives than at one of the many public forests where they literally have a cop directing traffic in at 4:30 in the morning and when the sun rises there is a guy in orange ever 120 yards in every direction.

at least I know where my drivers and standers are going to be , but it does take a degree of organization and communication.

700K people in the woods opening morning and almost every accident is still some idiot shooting at motion in the brush only a deer looks like a deer and you have to positively identify your target and that you have dirt behind it.


been doing drives 29 years

Unsafe not necessarily you just need to know you are with and only hunt people who know what's going on from start to finish and dont hunt with idiots or trigger happy fools. Everyone needs to know the lay of the land the plan of attack and cannot stray from that plan no matter what. Can accidents happen sure but it's for sure safer than still hunting public land during gun season in most places. You never know where the buck fever fool is hiding ready to shoot that sound of a lifetime. We dont drive till the last half of season and on private land but I dont feel any more unsafe than driving in traffic. I've seen more accidents from people texting, running red lights, or just not paying attention than I care to think about.

We hunt with a small group less than ten people and drive smaller pieces of woods we dont shoot into the drive unless it's in a valley or behind a hill. It's a great way to fill tags and gets deer moving when they have been hunted hard and gone nocturnal. Say what you will but I love a good drive.

Drives certainly are possibly more dangerous than a lone hunter sitting in the woods.

Just cause there is a higher danger factor doesn't mean it should be outlawed.

There is more danger in hunting with a gun than a bow, should we ban gun hunting?


There is always more risk with the possibility of greater rewards, that's the way of the world.
Accept it, risk what you are willing to but don't stop other who are willing to risk more.

We've been driving deer in WI going on 60 years. We stand for a couple of hours the first day then push deer from dawn to end of shooting hours. We have had as many as 20 guys in our gang and always at least 12. Some of our drives are 2 miles, most about a mile. I bet 75 percent of the time the drivers shoot the deer.

I can't think of 1 time anyone felt threatened or there were words.

WS

No, Steven, I have no stats, just my own limited experience and what I was taught about hunter safety.

I never said driving should be outlawed. It's just something I want to avoid.

Pete has raised the possibility of the terrain allowing for a safe drive, and I won't dispute that--I just think it's a rare situation. And yes, you could probably shoot deer squirting out the sides safely, depending on the angle.

You guys who do drive deer, how do you shoot without breaking that half circle I talked about? And are you sure the other guys in your drive will pass on shooting the buck of a lifetime because it's in line with the drivers?

Jim

considering more people shoot themselves or others in their group with poor handling and a lot more bird hunters than deer hunters
2018 https://dnr.wi.gov/topic/hunt/IncidentReport/huntCurrent.html

2017 https://dnr.wi.gov/topic/hunt/documents/incident/2017HuntingIncidentSynopsis.pdf

2016 https://dnr.wi.gov/topic/hunt/documents/incident/2016HuntingIncidentSynopsis.pdf

you read through those then I will ask if you would like to try some pheasant on public land or water fowl hunting , with those super safe shotguns and bird shot that cause well more than half of all injuries and fatalities.

700K deer hunters maybe 150k bird hunters
9 day gun season which for most is a 2 days season vs months of season.

you might also be interested that when Green county went Rifle form shotgun , barns , houses , equipment and vehicle struck by projectiles went down significantly.

people seem much more likely to treat a rifle with respect and hit what they were aiming at rather than lob lead.

I’ve never done it, but it has the potential of going south pretty quick if everyone isn’t on the same page. A lot like blocking during a pheasant hunt. I always spend time talking to the group about safety and keeping cool heads. That being said; I have set up blockers while guiding and or have been one thousands of times and only seen one accident, so I don’t see a problem with it.

you don't get a 1/2 circle you get 90 degrees

if your all walking north you have to stay in line no one faster or slower , you may not always be able to see everyone you stop at the breaks and line back up , until you know your back in line your just walking with a gun no shooting. but it moves deer

so if we are each walking lets say across a field of waist high grass with a little brush and we are all keeping in line we each get a 90* overlapping field of fire with the guys on the outside having a wider field of fire to the outside.if we are all 100 yards apart the field of fire is from 315* to 45* on the compass it would over lap about 50 yard out

think about it your on a trap range you don't get 180 you get like 45*

one of our drives was an over grown 80 acre Christmas tree farm field , drivers may carry guns but when you get out to the break between the first section and the second is the only time you could shoot and that was unlikely in the trees is thick , 20 years ago you did most of it on your hands and knees but it almost never failed to produce deer. it is up hill slowly for about 600 yards to the top if the hill , the back side of the hill is steeper and maybe 25 yards to the bottom standers are actually 75 yards of clearing down the back side of the hill and tucked another 25 yards into the woods there is a driver on the outside of the pines on each end when that person reaches the top of the hill the standers can see him he waits for all the drivers to get out just short of the top of the hill then then drive is over. by positioning those standers back down the hill they are shooting into the hill and by being back in the woods 25 yards the deer have slowed down before they hit the tree line and are easier to shoot

Here they drive them with dogs. No harm to humans.

So by your standards, we should outlaw driving vehicles, because some so it unsafely. And we should outlaw flying planes because a plane here in WI just crashed into a pickup killing the driver and pilot. Just because some are too stupid not to shoot their hunting partners doesn't mean those who know what they're doing shouldn't be able to continue on with their legal means of hunting.

Or should we ban guns altogether just because some choose to use them illegally?

you eat too many pickles James.

I wish dogs were legal here. I like hounds and always wanted to try that.

That would be fun all right.

To you fellows having trouble reading what I post, once again, I am not advocating making driving illegal.

Jim

"think about it your on a trap range you don't get 180 you get like 45*"

You may be aiming for all your shots within forty-five degrees, but you don't have people standing right outside that slice of a circle.

When I shoot trap, other people are standing behind me.

Jim

I only drive with people I know, whether it's deer, rabbits, or any other critters. Never seen anyone hit yet.

On a safe drive, only the standers and flankers have shooting lanes.
Driver's never shoot.

I emphatically disagree to say it is inherently unsafe. It is as safe as the people doing it, much like any other human activity.
And I say this having witnessed my brother pick up two 00 pellets in the foot and leg at a range of 125 yards on a drive. My brother violated the safety rules by moving from his position into harms way.

how many deer drives have you been on James?

Like most leftists, never done it but an expert on it so his opinion matters more than those who have.

Maybe a dozen. I quit after the incident I described. I decided I didn't have the same definition of gun safety as the rest of the group.

Sure, if you could find a group of seasoned hunters with the same view of gun safety, level-headed guys who don't shoot unless all stages of firing are reporting green, then go for it.

I can imagine getting involved in a deer drive again, depending on the other participants, terrain, etc.

If it's so safe, why do outfitters ban driving deer?

Jim

it pushes the deer off their natural patterns and off the stands with 5 star accomodations.i grew up driving deer but haven't done it in 20 yrs.

now a little one guy walkin slow and another sitting to take advantage of it has killed a lot of deer for our family.

it pretty much went away here when posted signs became popular.

Like most semi-literates, he couldn't read my post but that doesn't stop him from making an arse of himself.

Jim

"In Wisconsin and probably in many other states, about half of all hunting accidental shootings occur during drives."

https://biggamelogic.com/deer-driving/

Deer drives are as common as fleas on a hound dog here. I bow hunt a good bit, so when rifle season comes around, I've usually had enough sitting around, and thoroughly enjoy the movement and comradery of driving. Our family has been driving deer my entire life and many years before I was even around. I can only remember two dangerous incidents in my 35 years of driving and both were the result of someone not in our party blasting away from a half mile or so away and bullets whistling over our heads.

The pressure in our area is tremendous, and if you don't move the deer after the first couple days, they will not move until dark. We hunt with around six men, and sometimes only three, usually 2-3 watchers and 3-4 drivers. Our drivers still hunt the drives and we stay on pace by making occasional turkey calls. We never drive the first couple days, and typically not on weekends. In my little piece of the world, it appears that driving deer is not unsafe.

There are groups around here that hunt like that, crazy if you ask me. The way they drive and shoot coyotes is nutso too. Some hunt deer that way here but the coyote guys are a whole new level. Park on bridge, shoot into timber, drive the edge toward group waiting on other end.
I've been in a section in middle of it and unbeknownst to them. No fun to hear bullets hitting tree limbs over your head either. Anything that holds a lot of .223 ammo seems to be preferred coyote gun these days around here.
I always figured if it got real bad and I'm stuck in between again quietly running my little trapline that my little ruger 10/22 could at least send 15 back at em as fast as I can pull the trigger, should get their attention right?
Some folks i swear have no sense of woodsmanship and they have the most insane concepts for hunting. Loud trucks, drive anywhere you want, and shoot a gun with lots of ammo in the clip. Put some on one end and drive toward them to chase game to them. Yep James it's almost that time of year again thanks for the stark reminder of another reason why I wear lots of orange on my trapline.
Jim

We drive deer on the last Saturday of deer every season. Been droving deer almost 50 years without incident. I do a lot more things that are unsafer than deer drives.

Yep, they don't want to run deer off their property.

We still drive some but like you we do more little "pushes" than anything. The days of doing a couple mile long drive is over unless it's on state land.

I have a problem with the way SOME coursing hound guys do things. Like driving along a hedgerow or whatever with a semi auto, shooting into it to get coyotes to run out. These are the guys driving through fences, accidently shooting livestock, rutting up pastures and hay ground.

We did deer and elk drives a lot when I was a kid. It was a family thing. Nobody ever got hurt. Don't think I would do that with just anybody.

Ive never had a bad experience driving deer.

Never occured to me that others thought it was dangerous until I started reading about it on the interweb.

I think we need a little more context here too James.

What type of terrain were you in?

In my part of PA where we do drives it is heavily wooded. The drives are short (1/4 mile at most) and everyone knows where each other is.

i worry about getting shot 100 times more hunting turkey then on deer drives.

You Don't have to Do it if you don't want to.

You cannot regulate Everything.

Many things we do in the U.S.A. are more dangerous.

Folks mainly use dogs around here. Driving deer not a common practice but I've been in on a few. I figure you have a greater chance being killed in a car wreck on the way to said hunt, than you do of being shot on a drive.

Professional deer driver here. It is dangerous, highly effective and a lot of fun. If you know what you’re doing, have an idea what the deer will do, done the drive before a time or two. Any danger is mitigated. Drivers all halloo so everyone knows where they are. Drivers all know where blockers are. Whet yer knife

Been doing it here in WI my whole life. We set our standers up on elevated stands, ridges hills. Edge drivers can shoot or if the deer is behind the drive and cut back. We usually only do small pieces and stir deer with 2-3 people all else set up to be shooters. Nothing even close to an injury in 50 years.

i'd like to see the numbers of those hurt on deer drives versus those that fall from trees while hunting.

I guess I do not want to be down range of a shooter. But I have never heard of someone getting shot in a drive. Driving a car is dangerous.

They drive deer here in Iowa .I am not one that dose it. It is DNR way to keep the deer numbers in check. I know it mess up the coyote trapping. I do the early muzzle loader season. when the deer are not mess up. It is not for me to drive deer . But if it works for those that dose it and like was stated know who is in your group so much the better. I know my dad and brother and I we use to drive the rabbits and birds and for hunting and we where all line up and my dad taught us how to do it. But I hunt lone now. I know in SC they use dogs also beside NC .I was there when they did use dogs and ask about it . The one I talk with said there is too many water moccasins that they rather lost a dog in the swamps then someone to get bite.

More hunters are injured by falling from a treestand than from being shot.

I’ve heard bumble bees a time or two!

we would drive deer bow hunting. 2 pusher (with bows) and 3-4 at the other end of the woods. We took a lot of deer. When driving with a firearm. We set up the shooters in such a way that they were not shooting toward the drivers. It isn't rocket science, but it is an efficient way to pile the deer up quick.

I propose life is unsafe and that living it is a surefire way to end up dead.

I enjoy drives, it feels sporting and is a ton of fun, just choose your partners wisely you dont have to dance with anyone who ask.

Yes Jim, it is Unsafe, don't do it. You have too much to live for. The rest of us are pretty much disposable and we know it and accept it.

Yep we use dogs here too. A good dog race is a beautiful sound. I know some guys that turn lose about 30 to 40 walker dogs up in the mountains in the national forest.alot of fun!

bet there is way more drives in PA for bear than there are for deer.

Only deer hunting accident I was close to(next property from our hunt) happened to a young hunter. It was hilly country. Drivers pushed a deer to this young man and he shot. The rifled slug hit a rock and ricocheted back towards the drivers hitting his uncle in the throat. The uncle lived.

We always drive deer. Have hunted with the same group for 10 years or more and I completely trust everyone of them. No new "members" are allowed without the consent of the entire group. We have a ton of fun and shoot a lot of deer. I think if I had to just sit in a tree and wait for a deer to show up I would be bored to death and wouldn't hunt.

21 yrs as an emt here in a little town that encompasses a big hunting area and i can remember 4 turkey accidents,and probably twice that many treestand incidents.have probably hauled way more than those 2 put together for medical emergencies.don't remember a deer hunting shooting accident though.

It's all good here, I've never seen a deer behind the wheel.

Seriously though... As far as I know it is "illegal" here... Or at least using hounds as part of a drive is. Not sure about one group pushing deer to another group... Seems that would be hard to define legally for enforcement purposes.

If it is indeed illegal I would think safety and perhaps "ethics" are the reasoning behind it. Although ethics have always struck me as subjective.

Kinda curious now. I may have to ask about it.

Mike

Drives are fun and safe if done right. I haven't heard of anyone being shot from drives. Most hunters that get shot are from self indicted wounds. Probably more dangerous to get behind the wheel of a car. What a dumb thread.

My grandfather was on a volunteer ambulance crew decades ago before the big push for hunter safety... He said in that time he only worked one hunting "accident." A young man in the community, for no apparent reason, sat down under a tree and committed suicide by shooting himself. Some proposed there was an accidental discharge, but my grandfather stated that it was clearly self-inflicted.

Mike

This is incorrect. Every gun accident has to be reported by law. The DNR has a summary of accidents every year on there website. Last year was the safest with only three non fatal accidents. Only one was during a drive. James, you need to fact check before you post.

And none of us even wore Blaze Orange It was It was red and black Woolrich coats.

Considering the staggering number of deer drives carried out each year (and bear, and hog, etc...) and the blatant lack of injuries sustained during them...I would have to disagree 100%.

These days, drives being "unsafe" looks and sounds and feels a lot more like an angle to push the agenda of those who simply "don't like" them.


and then there's this:

Early pic of the Beav circa 1843 in Woolrich coat.

that weighed 300 pounds to a kid if it was raining.

James, James, James, I'd rather go quail hunting with Dick Cheney, than on a ride with Ted Kennedy.

Nah, I wasn't born yesterday. Not only do you not back up your claim with an authority or link, but you're remark is limited to a single year.

Jim

I wouldn't do either one.

Jim

Long ago and far away..... we were driving poplar islands in the swamp. I was shooter on the first island. A doe and 2 fawns bust out, full run. I rolled the doe on the first shot and my gun jammed. The fawns made it to the next island. The crew assembled and headed towards island 2. We ended up getting spread out. Just as the first drivers got to the woods the fawns ran back through us. Nothing like having two deer running amongst 20 hunters with guns. We held our fire till they busted out the side of the group. They didn't make it back to the woods, and no one was shot.

It all comes down to your crew and their reactions.

I've had my scope on a huge buck and didn't shoot because my drivers were pushing him through the willows. It was painful to watch him skirt the woods and go right through them to where they parked the truck.

Ditto.

With the clueless, emotion based morons nowadays, it may well be a bad idea to do drives.
However with sane, normal, well disciplined people drives are the best and safest way to put venison, and many other meats, on the table.

In PA last couple yrs more treestand accidents than shootings.

Wisconsin has reported "for the last 10 years, 39 percent of deer hunting incidents were the direct result of deer drives.” https://georgesoutdoornews.bangorda...ne-woods/deer-driving-law-reinterpreted/

In 2016 Wisconsin reported eleven hunter shooting incidents. https://dnr.wi.gov/topic/hunt/documents/incident/2016HuntingIncidentSynopsis.pdf The biggest cause was self-inflicted wounds due to mishandling a firearm. Second biggest cause was shooting a nearby partner due to mishandling a firearm. Then there are a few quail, grouse, and turkey hunters.

There are only four incidents involving hunters actively hunting deer. In two, the hunter lost control of his gun while moving in a tree or tower blind and shot himself.

The other two incidents involve hunters shot during deer drives. We can accurately say that 100 percent of the shootings of big game hunters by another hunter were the result of deer drives gone wrong.

Two hunters shot in God knows how many deer drives is not a lot. You folks who say driving deer is safer than driving a car have a good point. You've convinced me that deer driving can be safer than I believed when I started this thread.

But I also think it's pretty clear that driving is the most dangerous way to hunt game.

Jim

Shot many driven deer... I'm not keen on doing it with 20 guys, but really, no different than any public hunting. You never really know where everyone is. I like small drives, less to keep track of.

"Every Ohio deer hunting outfitter I've talked to bans driving as too dangerous."

I think they are pulling your leg. This ain't Africa. They would have to pay somebody to drive for you and insure them. Then they never know what kind of idiot they may book. Never was the best way to target big deer, just deer. IMO.

James, glad to see you come around. Sorry, but I don't know how to post links and I'm not going to do other people's research. I did post one year but I did look at several on the DNR website. Not hard for anyone to look up. Maybe I'll learn how to post links soon. Lol.

Most state fish and game departments probably compile hunting statistics similar to those published by Alabama.

Alabama hunting incidents 1 September 2018 – 30August 2019- https://www.outdooralabama.com/sites/default/files/2018-19%20Hunting%20Incident%20Statistics.pdf

harassing me about drivin deer is even more dangerous.

If we want to why does somebody think they can tell us not to. If you dont want to dont, but dont tell me i cant.

Who said you can't?

Jim

Thats a liberal thinking. Ever notice if a conservative doesnt like candy bars he doesnt eat candy bars. But if a liberal doesnt like candy bars he thinks NOBODY should eat them.

True story !

I'm envious of you men who know ten or twenty other guys you can trust with your life.

I don't. My brief experience with deer drives ended with the shot after the shot one guy almost put into a driver. The gunner killed a deer with his second shot, and was more concerned with admiring his trophy than the man he almost killed, who was freaking out.

I didn't hunt with them again, and my view of drives has been colored by that experience.

Jim

yeah,you were a lawyer James,it may not really be an accident after all just one of them hardened criminals you put away.so i guess my point is that deer driving is probably way more dangerous to lawyers than most other hunters.

LOL!

Jim

Of that I have no doubt. But it doesn't mean it's unsafe, there is a difference

I've been involved in deer drives for 50+ years. The groups I've hunted with have never had an incident nor a close one. That can't be said for drives I've observed that came close to us or through us.

The drives I was involved with in the 60s as a kid were well planned and executed. The older fellas made sure all were aware of everyone's position and how/where it would conclude. That was how my young mind perceived things. The drives in the 80s and 90s were without these older fellas,and it appeared to me to be a bit less organized and perhaps more reckless.

The drives I've observed in the last twenty years are much different now. The "older" fellas are about done. And the younger fellas are not too keen on pushing deer for standers. There are exceptions to this,but that's the general rule. That and it's "too much work."

Example: I've hunted public river bottoms more or less in the same area since mid-80s. During the 80s and 90s there would be, on average, three different drives through the swamp on Saturday and two on Sunday. 2000 forward there would be two on Saturday, and one before the Packer game on Sunday. Good times for a tree stander. Deer moved all day and success rates for this boy were high.

About 2006 or so the river drives changed dramatically. One drive Saturday and none on Sunday. The younger guys were done slugging through the swamp. The older fellas either found the couch or the bar stool. Our group started smaller drives. Deer movement mostly ceased except during these minidrives.

Today it's a rare event, in this same area, to observe a drive by others outside our group. Too much work I suppose. I've changed my tactics and am successful but deer movement is definitely different with the big drives gone.

Again, this is public river bottoms, accessed only by boat. I'm sure up in more easily accessed areas the story may be different, but for the swamp this is the way I see it.

I still enjoy participating in drives. The pace is much slower, to the point where it becomes more of a still hunt towards a couple of standers versus a march in the same direction.

Anyway, for what it's worth.

Muskrat X2

A loaded gun can be placed on a table .As long as the gun does not get knocked off of that table or no one picks it up it will never hurt anyone .Of course driving deer could result in an injury to another hunter .But a stand hunter could drop his gun and if it went off it might hit someone .You could be walking with a friend trip over a small branch and shot some one else .It is important to plan a drive in a manner that takes into account where the others are at .Most of the time if we are driving deer the drivers do not shoot .And if they know they have pushed a deer they stop where they are and wait for a few minutes .Also standers must be aware of the terrain and only fire at deer that will not result in the standers shooting in the direction of the drivers .In my younger years someone that was a friend of a friend that I hunted with told me MY TALKING ABOUT SAFETY MADE HIM UNCOMFORTABLE .I was uncomfortable with that concept and decided to not hunt with him .Safety is everyone first priority . If that is not the case than any type of use of a firearm is dangerous

Driven hunts for deer and boar are the norm here in Europe. I'm the only guy in my valley who hunts alone.

Every year in France there are a few deaths and injuries on these driven hunts, but given the number of them it is still a rarity.

I agree that terrain is a huge difference. On flat ground you have a clear sense of the safe shooting direction but around me in the mountains it is not the same thing. Around me there has never been an accident in 50 years or more.

Pete

just James Pete,he was bored

I took part in some deer drives as a young hunter. In the hills of PA a person would have to be negligent beyond hope to mistake an orange clad hunter for a deer.
Hunting driven deer holds no appeal for me now,, but I do sometimes take a walk around our hill to try to get a deer to pass by one of my sons.

In PA I believe as many hunters have been shot during turkey seasons as any other.

I’ve been hunting over fifty years and only know two people that were involved in hunting related incidents.
James (no relation to the OP) was shot in the leg with a high powered rifle by a man that swore he saw a deer.
Problem was James was sitting on a rock with his brother, both he and his brother were wearing hunter orange
in compliance with state law!
The other incident involved a man I worked with in Montana. Charly had a HORSE that he was riding shot out from under him. Charly was wearing orange, again for compliance with state law. His horse was wearing orange
in the form of orange surveyors ribbon tied in mane and tail and an orange saddle blanket. The shooter in both
incidents were non residents from east of the big river.
I have some friends that I would feel totally fine in a “drive “ either as a poster or driver. We sometimes do small pushes where the “driver” is actually still hunting a small patch of timber while the stander is watching the escape routes.
Bottom line is like most grown up activities, it is only as safe as the participants.
All the stats I’ve read, turkey hunters are more likely to be shot by another hunter by a wide margin.
James your profession should have proven to you that “ya can’t fix stupid”. It does tend to cull itself though.

Jim, how many people have you known that died or were injured in small airplane crashes in Alaska? Don't get in one. Ever.

nothing wrong with a good well orchestrated deer drive. if you got dufus mcrufusses in you group maybe its not a good idea... outfitters don't do drives because they don't wanna pressure their ground and run the deer off it, that's kinda just common sense. I got news for you, all the big bucks you see shot in iowa on the outhouse channel aint how most deer get killed in iowa, most of them get shot on drives cause you can party hunt.

Oh boo hoo, dang Rob!

I have hunted all my life by driving deer and bear, even during archery season. Is it any different than just walking quietly into your stand on public land towards another hunter you don't know is there? He doesn't know you are walking towards him till he sees orange if u are required to wear it.

Is that how you hunt, Dirt? By driving?

Jim

Have been on 100, s of drives. Both gun n bow.
Can't say I've ever been on one where things went bad.

Just on Montague and the son and I drove deer to each other. If I could fit seven or eight guys in my boat, we would run bigger ones. Could you answer my question? I thought the subject was safety?

BTW don't take a boat out there Jim, it is unsafe. You could hit a whale.

Haven't hunted Montague, just Kodiak, Afognak, and Raspberry. In those islands, the hunting pressure is low enough that you can still-hunt the deer; you can usually shoot them while they stand looking at you. Montague may get more pressure though.

Would you pick seven or eight random guys, guys you didn't know, to drive-hunt with your son?

You know I do fly in planes and ride in boats. But if teleportation was a safer option, I'd teleport.

Jim

Wow, I had no idea driving deer was this popular. I find myself once again in the minority, at least among the outspoken.

And yes, I know they commonly drive deer and boar in Europe, but over there they have peons to do the driving.

Because of my own experience of once having seen a driver almost killed, I can't bring myself to agree that driving is a safe way to hunt. When I try visualize a safe way to drive deer, I always arrive at unsafe firing solutions. Yeah, there is blaze orange, but a bullet will travel farther than you can see in many situations.

I wish someone could do a diagram of a safe drive for me. Some things are better conveyed in images than words.

Aside from safety, I wonder if it's as rewarding to shoot a driven deer. Don't you have to share the credit and glory--let alone the meat--with ten or twenty other guys?

I suppose the camaraderie of a group hunt is a thing to put on the plus side of driving. But driving isn't the only way to group hunt.

My own favorite ways of hunting are still-hunting, spot-and-stalk, and calling. I will sit in a blind for hours if I have to, but it ain't my favorite.

The one thing I remain convinced of is that if I ever find myself on a deer drive, I'd rather be a gunner than a driver!

Jim

Love the camp man! Where and when was this?

It's rewarding in the fact that it puts meat on the table. If after glory, couldn't tell ya.

Team credit or glory? Makes me wonder why people play team sports? I think it is dying ( if it is) because it may be harder to put together a team.

Driving deer is legal in MN as far as I know. I wouldn't have a problem driving deer for archery hunting. But, I would never participate in driving deer either as a driver or a stander during rifle season. Far too dangerous!

We do it every year. Keep your group to people you know and trust and all is good.
No screwballs allowed.
I have been doing drives for about 40 years. Never an incident.
Have a plan before your start and everyone wears orange.
Should not be an issue.

Down in the Lower Wisconsin River valley. I've set up a number of different tents depending on how many will be in camp. Deer camps, IMO, add dimension to the gun deer season.

Same tent setup . . .





Several years back by myself. Friday set up with snow that evening.





Just one buddy of mine and me.

Again, snow on Friday night.











Ground blind built Friday at crossing with two beaver dams.



And how it looked Saturday with fresh snow.



Wood stove going, pot of stew bubbling, purrs of Coleman lanterns, pegging on the cribbage board. Up in the morning, breakfast in the skillet on the stove, gear up and head to the stand from the tent.

Ah . . . . life is good.

Awesome set up muskrat.

we use to do the same thing and saw tons of deer and no one got hurt, now no one gets together to hunt or let you on their land. James must not have any hills in his part of the country!

Some of the most productive hunts I have been on were short drives of small tracts, using a bird dog or a jump dog. One driver and 0ne or more standers on trails deer were using to go around heavily used permanent stands. many times I would get to the camp and the previous hunters would say "the deer just aren't here" or "deer just aren't moving". I remember several times that happening and seeing over 30 by three hunters in just a few hours and always having good luck. Many times the hunters would be in climbing stands not to start the drive until a few hours after sunrise.

A well trained dog that only jumps the deer is a wonderful thing to see.

Deer drive safety falls on the hunters. Period. They can make it as safe as possible or as dangerous as possible.

I could care less about the hunter safety when guys do deer drives. If you choose to put yourself and your group at risk, that's your decision.

However, when I did participate, I saw way too many bad shots being taken at running/walking deer...which is often the case due to the nature of a deer "drive". Lots of gut shots or shot in the hams. Wasteful. Or, someone would shoot a red fox or coyote with their .270 and ask me if I wanted to "skin" what was left of it. Uh...no, I don't.

But again, if that is how you want to do it, by all means you should.

I agree driving deer is as safe or as dangerous as you make it.

As far as deer being gut shot or blasted in the hams, that's up to the hunter. If he didn't have a shot, and shot anyway, that's his fault.

What's wrong with shooting a fox or coyote or bobcat while hunting? When I'm hunting, I hunt.

One thing that someone above said, about "sharing the glory" or something like that. You know, when I'm out hunting with friends, I'm happy if they get the "big one", it's good to know that we kicked it out, got it on it's feet and put him down.

Another thing, I've killed my share, and some of my friends that are getting older or can't walk for whatever reason, let them watch. I like to move around and love to hunt. It sounds like some of you guys are just jealous. Some folks are better hunters than others, just the way it is.

One other thing that I read above, about not shooting in 180* area in front of you. When I hunt, I'm hunting 360*. I don't "drive" much, when I do and know that there's someone off to my right or left, they'll have their "safe" zone. Same as when I'm hunting alone and happen to bump into another hunter.

Around here, our terrain makes things much safer. I've been on drives where the "drivers" are on different ridges. Our mountains run north/south, put a man on the south side of each ridge and take it off. He can shoot 360*, with the exception of the skyline until near the end of the drive. I'm thinking about big drives. If you're just doing a little thicket or small patch, that's different. Get out near the man/men watching and hold up for 20 minutes or an hour. Even better when you have radios and are talking, and know for sure what's going on.

On those days when the deer are sitting tight, nothing is moving, driving can be fun, it can also be very safe.

I believe that is true. But I've seen enough instances of someone losing their cool when game pops up. I was once shot by a friend in high school who was shooting at a rabbit running toward me. Fortunately the range was at least fifty yards. I saw the shotgun come up and had time to turn my back. The pellets stung some on my legs (I was wearing a heavy jacket) but none penetrated skin.

Like I said, I'm envious of those who know ten or whatever number of guys who can be counted on not to lose their heads when the buck of a lifetime is running in front of them. Under those circumstances, I would participate in a drive.

Jim

Hi Jim, just want to say that sometimes I do not agree with you but I enjoy your posts none the less.
Here in New Jersey driving deer usta' be a big thing and some still do it but it has dropped off as more and more houses are built. Here we can use buckshot which works much better on driven running deer provided you know the range limitations of your shotgun. A good buckshot barrel or screw-in-choke is a rare find and the prized possession of the owner. Be aware I am talking shooting OO or OOO not #4Buckshot which is not much more than glorified birdshot. Lots of chokes or barrels will shoot #4 but few shoot the bigger pellets in a dense enough pattern to floor a deer up to 80 yards or so. My son has a modified screw-in-choke for his 3 inch 870 that will consistently put 12 of 15 OO pellets in a pizza box at 70 yards. A deer hit with that drops on the spot as the pattern usually takes out the spine, neck or multiple legs. This eliminates deer that run off 100 yards or so to die in someones back yard like a deer shot with a shotgun slug or muzzeloader will. Eric

Driving deer are very unsafe
On motorbikes the lack the thumb to operate the blinker. That makes lane changes somewhat unpredictable and when they drive cars the antlers get in the way of the rear view mirror and they have no idea what’s going on behind them.
I think that deer should not be allowed to operate any form of motor vehicle

I do know this. If I were a lawyer, I would not participate in a deer drive...
Too much accident potential.

I have probably taken half my deer from drives but reading this post got me to thinking. The guys I hunted with were all Kansas pheasant hunters so driving (walkers + blockers) was an every weekend thing. We all wore orange which the state required for rifle deer season and we were hunting the brushy draws and creek bottoms of the flint hills or the smoky hills. If you missed the bullet stopped in a hillside, period. The youngest or least experienced guys were generally given blocking assignments so they could tag out quickly.

Looking back we never gave it a 2nd thought. We would all hunt horns in the AM and then after lunch meet up for the drives. 4-7 guys at the most.

Reading this post and the great comments I can see where any other set of circumstances might lead to trouble.

I think they way any of us answer questions on social media has to do with our geographic point of view. I remember years ago getting the 3rd degree for using green libs for drags. Since then, I have come to believe the guys who thought I was leading young trappers astray probably did not have hedge rows (osage orange wood is probably not going to snap and turn a coyote loose)

X2

James, If you think a deer drive might pose a safety issue or 2 you'd probably have a stroke if you saw my coyote hunting buddies chasing butt sniffers across the open prairie with a flatbed full of greyhound boxes and the tac redlined. Hint- all 4 wheels do actually touch the ground but its very brief and then you bounce back up into the air! LOL

In my neck of the woods, if it has 4 legs it dies. Yotes, fox, coon, possum, squirrel, rabbit, etc.
Local farmer would host 36 hunters to push timber (often on the sly) and they slaughtered everything in sight.
As a boy, i wasnt allowed in the timber during shotgun deer season.
It was/still is not healthy.

Down here too. James should come to the swamps of south Ga and get him a taste of this. Thirty 4x4 trucks surrounding a block of timber and swamps....20 hounds after one yearling......did I mention the hunters all have rifles.

It is fun!

My question is how did this come back up as the alst post was 11/02/2019?

I started diving deer for the Evergreen Hotel when I was fourteen, Father set up drives for years. we hunt in the woods. No problems no safety issues. cant say anything about where or how you hunt but as far as here drivng was a accepted how to hunt deer. No Mossey oak camo though.

I too got grilled for mentioning live saplings. Then Boss came on and said the beaver can stumble into coon set and eat the drag.
I'd never had beavs at the time,
I learned that I could learn from outside my own line,, and, some on here can be fierce lol.
Variables.