Apparently keeping notes is a bad thing

Ok guys wanna know your opinion on this and also gonna vent a little bit sorry if it sound like I'm whining but I'm not trying to.

So I recently got a welding position in the maintenance sectoin at work . Well do alot of various things from making wood casings for the windows to building pallets to of course fixing machines. Well with all this of course comes alot of measurements and procedures. Problem is I have a bad memory. If I go take a measurement in the framing section and walk back to the shop within a few minutes I'm either going to forget or mix the numbers up. Same can go if I take a piece of machinery apart if I'm not careful I'll mix all the bolts and such up. I get it im 21 and shouldnt be that bad but the fact of the matrer is i am. I understand this and that's why I try to keep notes and reminders. At work I always have a smaller write in the rain notebook a pen,pencil and two sharpie markers with me. If I'm taking some machinery apart I'll number all the bolts and there associated holes. Really dosent take any extra time at all and keeps me from sitting there for an extra 30 min trying to figure out what goes where. Or if I'm welding a cart together I'll lable all the cut material so if everything gets mixed up somehow I can just match a #1 leg to the #1 position on the main bar.
If there is a certain procedure for working say the glue pump I'll take some fast notes such as
1. Disconnect main line a
2. Shut off side air supply
3. Lift pump arm manually
4. Remove and replace barrel
5. Cut on side air
6. Reconnect main line
* make sure to date new glue drum.

Or with the wood frames we make we don't just get a regular measurement. We get a call and they say they need say 4 2850's and 7 3070 made out of P6 board. And the 2850 or 3070 isn't somthing you can just convert you have to know a 2850 is 35.75" long and 54.25 wide.so if you don't know your gonna have to walk a few minutes across the factory measure everything then come back to the shop And build them And theirs ALOT of these profiles. But their all constant. A CF2 2850 is almost always this measurement and so on. So since it's been slow and we only get a few very morning I've been taking my time a writing down all the constant profiles and their measurements. So when we have a busy day I'll have all my measurements right in my hand and all it need to know is how many of each to make. Just scrible down how many of each profile and what wood to use and I can cross reference my profile list get the measurement and not even leave the shop . I do the same on what wood is what,how to rip down each type of wood and so on. It usually ends up looing like this.
Wood wrap around profiles :

4050 CF2 L=38" W=52 1/4"

3028 W2O L=40 3/4" W= 20"

Takes less than a few seconds write this down in my notebook and it's actually been working very well.
In my mind going ahead and trying to do all of this now while it's pretty slow and I can just makes sense and writing notes incase none of the other maintenance guys are their to help or if I forget just seems the most efficient thing to do. I mean. Most carpenters have a blue book that works in much the same fashion

However the guy training me right now hates it. He's been there for the last 15 or so years and has basically remembered everything. Deal is though he says due to my age their should be no reason I should be wasting time taking notes. I should just remember. If I call put a profile number he can give me the measurement off his head but basically refuse to tell me more than just that one at any given tim. Constantly complains that I'm wasting time and my note book will not help me on a busy day or id hes not there and if I just learn to use a tape measure I'll be better off ( which goes over my head because I know how to use a tape ,if I didn't how could I cut the wood to make the frames lol ) He's constantly try to tell me how on a busy we have to push frames out as fast as possible and have all the measurements will be worthless ( which makes no logical sense to me ).
I really tried to explain why I do what I do but to him it just boils down to I should remember and he extra few seconds I'm taking now to write all this down is just slowing everything down.

So again sorry if it souds like I'm being a cry baby here ( no need for a paragraph on how soft and worthless my generation is I get it ). But if you had so.one who where training and had problems remembering would you discourage them taking a few extra seconds while it's slow to take notes espically if they feel it will help them work faster dowm the road.

Your lead forgot it took him years to burn that info into his head. Writing notes helps with memorization, continue what you are doing! After a while those notes will not be needed.

never had a job in my life where there wasn't some tension with a fellow employee or two

I know doesn't help much but we all been there

I guess he will have to decide if he wants to baby sit you or let you make your notes and get your work done. there is always the chance he feels his job is threatened because they hired another man.

Build your cheat sheets and work on memorizing. a couple of hints... Small notebook like a Moleskine Brand (they have graph sheets or lined or plain) Mark the front and Organize it so that it takes seconds to DOUBLE CHECK YOUR WORK.

I would have no problems with a quick note of your spec numbers and double checking your notes prior to cutting.

if asked about it You are double checking.

Good trainers understand that everyone has a preferred way of learning and use that method with the individual. I am no expert, but have successfully trained hundreds of people in multiple roles within my company.

Keep taking notes and learning your job. Dont argue with him. He will get over it.

i really hope he makes up his mind soon . Military taught me how to work with alot of different types of folks under alot of different conditions but leads who forcefully hold your hand is somthing I have a problem with. I used to hers your job ,here's the basics do it till I till you to stop. This guy legit stands directly over me anytime i do somthing outside my welding area. He will snatch tools from my hand and tell me to move so he can do it himself if I say drop the wrench or not have the ratchet set to loosen. It's irritating more than anything because I end up just standing around trying to watch what he's doing. The idea of letting me work by my self on simple things while him and the other guy go work on somthing else seems to be a completely foreign concept to him. Basically if it's not his way and fast it's wrong

If you were working for me, I would want you to take notes, especially if you need them. You are doing it the right way for the business.

Keith

Keeping doing what you're doing. You'll be his boss soon enough.

Simple rule...Speed comes with time!

A wise man (my son) taught me “slow is steady, and steady is fast “. Like you if I don’t take notes I’ll never remember. And I have discovered that a smart phone camera helps a lot when disassembling something that won’t go back together for a while

after 40 years as a millwright I still took notes saved a lot of steps he's just lording over you every shop has an A, No doesn't stand for alpha

I wish the helpers I train would try that hard. I kid you not I’m surprised that some of them remember to breathe, let alone read a tape. Don’t worry about that guy. He’s just one of those guys that wants to micromanage everything

I always took notes when I started a new job with new parameters. When I owned my own business or when I had a position I was responsible for others … I always told them to take notes … if you don't, you get the opportunity to ask me about it 2 times … the third time you ask me, you will need to get a job someplace else, because you will be fired. I also told new employees …" I can be one of two types of people … first I can be a supervisor ask you to do something, or I can be a boss and order you to do something. The first option I ask and you do … the second option … If you don't do …. you are out of a job. It is your choice."

Garry-

Keep on writing things down. I still do it and I am 60 years old. Writing something down instills it better in you mind than just doing it or reading it. You are an amazing you man who will have all these dimensions memorized quicker than he ever did because of the methods you are using.

Dont worry about it! You aint going to get fired for good note taking skills...and if you do...well you need a new place to work anyways!

keep doing what works for you.
That guy has other issues I'll bet. It doesn't really matter what you do, he'll probably find something to B' about. Just be polite but keep at it, if you're working like you describe, I'll bet somebody above him has already noticed, and appreciates it.

keep doing what your doing ,I did for 35 years

x2--gettuum Wolfie

If it works for you doing the way you been,keep doing it . Do not worry about what the other says about take notes and all ,I do it all the time no matter what. Because something always will come up that throw you off from what you where thinking.

Just the other day I was cleaning out my old toolbox, and got to looking through my old notebooks. I've been retired for three years, but with those notebooks I could walk into a shop and begin working and be up to speed in a day or two. Mind you, this is from three different employers, in three different industries over twenty years. Don't let other people run you, I've watched your growth through the posts you've made here and you are a remarkable young man whose abilities and skills will always be in demand. Keep on keeping on, and don't let the naysayers drag you down.

Sounds incredibly common. Personally I think that unless an inordinate amount of time is spent, taking notes is a great idea. For a good many years I was a carpenter, and also taught the trade. I always recommended to students to take a few nots, although few took the advice.

Unfortunately one will find that quite often that just because someone has been put in charge of training people does not mean they are qualified to do so. A good many people have such a limited view of how things can be accomplished it is ridiculous. Most people are not good teachers and have no patients. A good many people put in charge of training others do not have enough confidence to not fear competition in the workplace. All true yet sad facts. There are several reasons a lot of trades people fail when they decide to go into business. The number one reason is of course they don't know squat about business. Another big reason is they have no leadership skills or interpersonal skills. Yes that sounds harsh, but it is the truth. Lots of good trades people just do not understand what it takes to go to the next level, and very very few know anything about being a leader. Leadership skills are about as rare as common sense.

Hang in there, keep working hard, do the best you can, and let the chips fall where they may.
Good luck

i've caught lots of fur after goin through my box of notes i've taken on the trapline over the 30 yrs i've been hittin it hard.

i have a notebook here by my computer,one at my desk in the furshop,and one in my truck year round for notes.i'd only remember half what i should without reminders and notes.

using any of those new traps and supplies we all watched ya get and open??

and painted turtles here have had their name changed to Wolfies.bet 100 times i've said to myself"Wolfies are out sunnin."

when you are givin the guy training you's job,suggest to him he should take notes.

I'd rather have to explain why I did something right as to explain why I did it wrong . People like that act like they were born experts . Just keep taking notes and doing a good job and you'll be fine .

I have trained people for different things before, and if anyone took the effort to take notes I looked at it as a good thing. It shows you are serious about your job and that you want to do it correctly.

I'd hire you. Attention to detail, love it.

People have different skill sets and so use different methods to be successful. Your way is working for you so keep doing it. In some industries the notes you are using would be formalized and called "procedures" and everyone would be required to use them verbatim.

In regard to relying solely on memory, I will tell you this. For much of my engineering career I did not take notes in meetings because I remembered every single word spoken, word for word, and could repeat it back years later if needed. When that level of memory faded in my late 40's, I did not have the needed note taking skills because I had never developed them. That made things more difficult for me at times.

X 2

I am also a note-taker so my opinion might be biased, take it for what it is worth. I carry a spiral-bound notebook with me everywhere, on the trapline, while hunting or fishing, to work, everywhere.

When I’m outdoors I take notes anything I find interesting. If I flush an entire flock of grouse I’ll make a note, if I see multiple piles of coyote crap I’ll make a note, if I see two heavily used deer trails intersecting I’ll make a note, if I find a large stand of white oak, or Hickory, or any mast-producing trees, I’ll make a note. It is very useful for me to go back over my previous notes when I’m thinking about where I want to hunt or trap in new areas.

At work I keep one with me also. As an example; if I am sheathing a hip-roof I am usually working three or four sheets ahead of the saw guy. I will measure up a sheet and jot down the notes then move on to the next piece. When he is ready to cut, I refer to my notes and yell the numbers down at him.

I think your lead guy is being a jerk and doesn’t really have the patience or attitude to be a teacher.

Trainer is an idiot.
Continue doing whatever it takes for *you* to do a good job. Work around the trainer, keep your temper, this too shall pass.

Just quit taking notes and when he complains that you did something wrong, tell him "yeah but did you see how fast I did it wrong!!"

He can't learn the way You do Wolfdog, and likewise you dony learn same as Him.

We All are different... I'd stay your course...

You ever thought maybe you are, or should be headed for higher things. You write very well, at least spellcheck makes it seem so.

you definitely want to take notes.
everyone remembers things differently , I do not do names , we could talk for hours one day and I might be able to recite your life's story and the make and model of every gun mentioned int he conversation , but your name , no

documentation is very good , notes pictures screen shots have saved me many times .

in a study they found Surgeons who followed a check list and had the nurse make notes as each step was done and write down all the gauze , clamps and stuff that went in during the surgery and then as it came out reduced medical malpractice by a significant margin.

these are supposed to be the most educated and best trained people , many have done the surgery dozens of times.

with your notes you should spend less time running around and figuring things out for the second time.

I take notes for work , I am actualy required to write up a service ticket that has notes on what the issue was , steps to resolve it and resolution. I may work with a dozen sites or more in a week , often customers who were hot to trot on an issue one day wait 2 weeks to call back in with the info I asked them to get, how am I supposed to remember a thousand sites and their issues back months,

notes are good

really there should already be a laminated sheet with all the frame dimensions and part numbers and a picture in the work area for building them so that any one who knows how to run a saw and a tape measure can in 5 minutes look over the sheet and start building.

not having things like that document is asking for mistakes and wasting training time.

this doesn't even speak to the distractions , yes there will definitely be distractions I may be working on a project and then an emergency call happens I am dropping everything to handle the emergency , then when done I need to go back.

pictures of equipment and assemblies cable paths and connections , with phones having cameras , we have been taking pictures especially with the portability of pictures these days via email , txt , online sharing .ect.

I would strongly encourage you to keep taking notes.

Just keep taking notes. I have been in my industry for 20 years and I still take notes or write up a job log so that I can reference them later if needed. This has helped me to make repairs or diagnose issue much quicker and get the equipment up and running faster. Nothing wrong with what you are doing. I wish I had 10 of you in my shop that were as dedicated.

there are generally 3 types of trainers

1. the person who knows how to teach but hasn't got a firm grasp on the material.


2. the person who knows the material inside and out could do it virtually in their sleep.


3. the person who knows the material inside and out and then learned how to teach it and has refined it to the most effective and efficient way to understand and teach it.


Type 1 , I had a high-school science teacher , she would be reading the book as we cam into class , and she would basically recite the book back to use for the first 20 minutes of class. lady I can read , but what about the questions the book doesn't answer , she just had issues applying the concepts to real world examples , thankfully I had the other instructor for the class second semester , grade went up because he was much better at teaching the concept and not the book. I need to understand the concept to apply not just recite the book.
it is hard to learn much of anything from the Type 1 instructors / trainers.

Type 2 they know the material inside and out , but You need to know how you learn and what questions to ask and notes to take , you can learn a lot from these trainers if you put in the time asking the questions so that you cement the concept and can apply it with all the details you need to glean from them.


Type 3 this is a real trainer , they understand the material inside and out , the concepts and not only do they know how to teach them but they know how to effectively test them. they also give you the material to refer back to so that you don't have to remember everything on the first go round. they can break everything down into the sub system and basically flow chart you through the test and resolution of each sub system. so that you can look at all the parts and the whole.
you may find they say it , show it , then have you do it to cement the concept and start to build your muscle memory right , knowing that it will take longer to un-train bad habits or bad form.




Type 3 is the trainer we should all be striving to be. know the material , understand the concepts , then understand teaching , present material in logical chunks letting them know what they need to know then why they need to know it once they begin to understand the concept. we want to present as much information as efficiently as time to not waste time or run out of time to teach. your student will be drinking form a fire hose of knowledge as it is . try not to give them more than they can handle and repeat it so that they are hearing everything more than once without being overly repetitive.

you may only run into a few of these solid type 3 trainers in your life , some people decide they like learning so they think they should teach , others are exceptional doers , but it takes that person who is an exceptional doer who has a calling to teach it as well.

you can become a better learner also by thinking about how you would teach what your learning.

I have knew parts guys that could look up 3 or 4 parts and they would all have several digits and he would keep them in his head and go off the parts bins and most always come back with the right parts. I can't do that, never could and most likely never will. Our memories are all different or at least have been programmed different. From reading your post you seem to be a forward thinker but there is enough back tracker in you that you pay attention to detail, esp. when trying to teach a concept to others. I try to use association when it comes to remembering objects or names, etc. But if I get more than a couple of numbers esp. fractions then if I don't have them on paper most likely I will be wrong. It does no good to measure twice and cut once if I can't remember the figures, lol.
I knew a deacon once that kept a small note book and a stubby lead pencil in his shirt pocket and made a lot of notes. People said his memory had been bad since he was a kid and had did the note thing all his life. He was a retired boiler maker and expert welder, apparently his employer focused on his skill more than his memory and note taking doesn't take near as long as a redo from having the wrong figures.
I have trouble remembering pass words, I use association like a pet, etc. But as I get older I can't remember the pet name either, lol.
Sounds like your boss is more interested in changing you than optimizing your skills for the best production out put. Bear with him til a new door opens.

I take notes, pictures on my phone, and make drawings all the time. It takes a long time to memorize some things, and others aren't worth remembering.

I have people ask me questions all day long that they think I should know, but I'm sorry I don't know the torque specks on a 1983 Briggs head bolt.....

Funny Story about temper. I'm a fairly calm person I feel and honestly I don't really like talking mess. Just not my deal. Well my trainer thinks he's the crap talking master so he's constantly prodding trying to make me. Told him if I started he wouldn't like me because I'll tell him some stuff that would really hurt his feelings and his skin isn't as tough as some if the ole boys I ran with in the army. I said please stop and let me do my job. Well came in and he started and I say screw it. Well he gets embarrassed in front of some folks and I tell him very camly he needs to knock it off because from this point on I'm goin to stop being so nice and he's going to get his feeling hurt alot more if he keeps testing me.
Come today he comes up with that " imma start some crap face "while I was talking to somone. He asked how can I remember all that millitary stuff and not a at of measurements. I get less than a sentence out of my mouth before he starts saying how their is no difference between the two bla bla bla. I smile and twll him how big of an idiot he I and really break down Barney style how he's one of the kinda folks that only wants to hear what they want to here,only there way is right and so on. All real calm like. Well he gets red in the face and start yelling how i need to get out my feelings. When I point out he the one all red in the face and talking loud he start walking up to me all bowed talking about I I keep on he's gonna go up side my head and so on. Well I step up and calmly tell him I aint going to lay a hand on him but if he's stupid enough to hes really not going to like what happens next. Guess th I has never happens to him before because he just stood there looking confused. Still wouldn't let me work alone but he's been alot less talky. Hopefully (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman) just friggen decided to leave me alone

lol that's awsome! And no haven't made any sets out. Might not till December but got some good public property scouted out

im glad you two are getting it worked out

you don't have to like somebody to work with them

He's probably afraid you'll make him look bad and he envies your motivation.

Was a maintenance mechanic for several years, a maintenance supervisor for more, until I eventually moved into an office with carpet and a secretary. I ALWAYS had a small spiral bound notebook in my shirt pocket and wrote in it at least a dozen times a day. As cell phone cameras started becoming a thing, my notebook got used less and less because I would snap pictures. I didn't always need the pictures but if I got stumped, it was there to refer too. I think taking notes is a good thing, not a bad thing.

That said, i the guy training you is your boss, you have to do it his way. I would try to reason with him but ultimately, he's the boss. If this guy is not the boss, he still has more clout than you do at the moment. You may need to put the notepad away until your training is over. When you're the new guy, tread lightly.

Ive worked with guys like that sometimes the best to do is stand your ground at times like you did, it seems sometimes they will respect you more for doing that then giving in, but I’ve seen it backfire as well, in the end he is your boss and sometimes you just have to feel them out to get along with them.

"Never memorize anything you can look up."

That quote is attributed to Albert Einstein.

Take your notes and reference them when you need to. Wasted time, material, and labor are more expensive than taking 10 seconds to reference your notes to double check yourself.

Mike

This!!

I worked in a paper mill for many years doing maintenance. An old timer taught me something that was pure gold. He learned the hard way and passed it on to me. A young engineer would give him a blueprint for a part to be made/machined. He would make the part and return it with the blueprint. The young engineer would go to fit the part to the machinery and find out he measured wrong. The engineer would then change the blueprint specs on the computer and print out a new blueprint and blame the machinist whom made the part.

The machinist got wise to this. He would then make a copy of the blueprint when given the request then just store it for later if needed. When he made the part and returned the original blueprint. If there was any problems he had back up documentation. This did happen again. The young engineer got talked to , and the machinist covered his own butt.

There are people out there who will throw you under the bus to make themselves look good. It happens A LOT.

There are narcissists on every job site. Keep taking notes. PERIOD.

"Age and treachery will always overcome youth and skill"

Don't stop taking notes, it will save you twice the headache and you are learning. review the notes often.

Doing aircraft maintenance, doing heavy maintenance...overhauling engines, etc. You read and re read every single word to the exact bolt and washer that goes on every inch of that airplane, then you reference with 3 other sources if need be.
organizing and labeling like you mentioned is also key; also is attention to detail. In the LONG RUN, you are gonna get much farther ahead then he will. Most employers will value what you are doing.
10 SECONDS of notes is better then 20 minutes of rework. Speed comes with time and experience, the critical thing is accuracy. When the guy has been there for 15 plus years of course he can do things faster. Hes been doing the same task for 15 years.

If he wants to do all your work while you stand there, let him sweat more I say if he wants to micro manage. That's his problem, don't sweat it.
Keep up the great work!!

Well the deal is he isn't my boss or even my supervisor. Apparently he just decided that he's gonna be the one who has to train me. He also talked fairly well of how he's ran off the last few guys so I'm starting to understand thing guy

My dad told me to keep a pocket calendar/ notebook in my pocket.

Today he was going in on a tanget about how slow I was. He gets in my face and starts asking what I'm going to do when he's not there or anyone elese and the factory boss comes up and asks why the machine isn't work in yet. I told him basically what you said and he threw a dagum fit. Really emotional guy when he didn't get his way. Honestly I'm thinking of giving up the position or quoting because I'm not getting paid enough to deal with him

My dad did similar with me. As been a teacher for the add 20 or so years and he still keep notes. He was an officer in the army for close to 13 years and I've found some of his old notes books

you can thump most anybody if they find out the fights on cause you just landed a uppercut