Fur prices this year....

Now that NAFA is not having a wild fur auction for 2020, how do you think the local fur buyer prices will be this year?

Looking for prices on Raccoon, Red Fox, Skunk, Mink and Eastern Coyote.

Coyote and fox probably ok. Everything else is up in the air until the dust settles from all this.

It wont affect the demand(or lack of) for fur at all.

It will possibly be ruled by who they sell to. If they have their own main sources, other than NAFA. I don't have any idea, any more, who some of the major players in the fur industry are. I suppose it will depend on the location where you live. We know the Groeny is in the upper Midwest and I am sure he buys fur many local buyers.

Garry-

What makes you think fox prices are ok? You like $7 fox?

So if NAFA dumps all of their current wild fur holdings into the market at once,it won't affect prices?

They are already on the market,and have been for a while.
When the prices start to rise again,a lot of fur being held by trappers could delay the recovery a bit.Depends on actually how much trappers have socked away.

Won’t affect coyote or rats there are solid orders in the country, won’t affect mink and fox because there’s no market anyway. Better prepare for a tough coon market, tougher then it has been

I agree, I think mink will be ~worthless. I'm not optomistic about coon.

Human nature and psychology would leave me to believe that anyone buying fur will be low balling everyone significantly. 1. They will be taking a large risk, like every year. But maybe more this year. 2. Who else are you going to sell too and what other options do you want to pursue and is it worth your time?

Since the fur crash of 1987 I have marked what the Dow was the day our trapping season opened and when I pulled my last traps. I have made, far and away way more money in the market during the seasons I have trapped then selling fur, so yes I have made money on average every season no matter where the fur prices have risen to or fallen to. I trap mostly rats, coon, mink and a very few canines so the fur I catch the market wants only at salvage prices, but I don't lose weight or gain aerobic health setting down reading the markets.

Bryce

Making the old body work for it is part of the appeal. Not just eating chips and farting on the couch, although my lower palm below my thumb wouldn't have gotten bite by a Bridger 110 watching tv today...

https://www.gfwco.com/

This fur buyers rocks right about now. That is who I will be selling too!

Looks like they only give their selves a few minutes at each stop. How does that work if you bring a lot of stretched fur? Do they actually take time to look it over and screw up their schedule? Are they driving a semi with a refer for the carcass guys? Logistics of all that must be a real nightmare. Makes me reluctant to go on a 150 mile round trip and hope for the best. I figure it costs about 50 cents a mile to drive a pickup. Shipping would be easier and about the same cost.

Yes, GFWCo is good.

They only taking putup dry fur?

What I can't figure out is why recreational trappers who are going to trap even if there is no market for their product keep looking at these price threads. I remember some of the biggest complainers about NAFA's low clearances or no limit sales were guys that will trap at any price anyway. If you're going to trap, no matter what the price, why do you care what stuff sells for or even if it sells since it obviously doesn't change what you will be doing?

I track price for a reason. I need to know whether trapping will be worth ( financially) the effort. ( hard work, wear and tear on equipment and my body). Price changes my behavior.

You are shortsighted,not considering the long game and protection of investment by management,which is just as important in years of lower prices.
You cannot manage the resource effectively based solely on the price of fur.

coyote muskrat skunk ok the rest no good.

Dirt- I think there are very few recreational trappers who would trap "at any price" unless they are protecting their livestock or their property from some sort of damage. I think the difference is between you and many recreational trappers is that they're willing to come down to break even or below cost of production for the "fun" but you, as a business man, won't. I stopped running a winter mink line 7+ years ago because for as much as I like catching mink, I couldn't justify the gas money, even for my fun. If only super nice 3xl or 4xl coon will be pushing $15 finished this year, and everything else below $10, I wouldn't be going after coon. Sooner or later, even the skinning machine green coon sellers will mostly fall out if those go less than a $5 average or at least a person would think so. I'm willing to trap mrats at north of a $2.50 average because I like it and can still recover my costs and maybe pay for a nice dinner for my bride later but I won't trap rats at a buck a piece. I think there is a limit for most guys. My state only has about 1,800 license trappers nowadays and I'm sure most of that is driven by price.

As for Boco's "you have to trap to manage furbeaer species", in a lot of states, that just isn't true. My state couldn't really give 2 s***s if furbearer numbers rise or fall, except that the state trappers would have to do more work for yote and beaver control (the 2 species that they get the most damage calls on). With the exception of bobcat, my state government's wildlife agency really couldn't care less, and probably rightfully so, about furbearers.

I am talking about my area of operation,In farmland,fur is obviously not in a natural environment anymore,and is not considered an important resource,compared to crop values,or at best well down on the list.In a more natural environment ,a well managed trapline produces tons of fur at minimal effort-sustainable maximum in the good markets,minimum sustainable harvest in the poor markets,but must be trapped non the less.Where I operate logging practices are harmful to many species.But furbearer production is a more valuable resource over time than wood,since fur is renewable on a much shorter timeframe than wood,so in a given tract of core furbearer habitat the value an 80 year period of fur harvest will exceed the value of the wood taken off the same tract once every 80 years,which is the minimum turnaround time for the harvestable wood supply to replenish in a managed forest.
A trapline not trapped is a barren wasteland before long with little fur to harvest when the prices come back.There are several key species on the landscape that,when managed to sustainable minimums or maximums affect every other furbearer population in the ecosystem.A year or two of minimum harvest wont make much difference,but things start to go down hill noticeably after 3-5 years of no harvest.Targeted management of key species like wolf and beaver helps a lot
You cant chase the markets you have to stay ahead of it to cash in.
I could care less what the "govt" wants.My investments in past management efforts,equipment, improvements,and sweat equity in development of the line is what is important to me to keep things profitable long term.
Once disease takes hold in a population the long term results are devastating to the resource.Many traplines that have been vacant for a few years now cannot sustain any harvestable numbers of furbearers,and will take years of low returns to be worked back into a productive trapline.
Professional trappers are the front line conservationists.

That likely holds true on a registered trapline, but doesn't necessarily translate to trapping public land.

Boco- You still have to do your beaver "quota" so you can have your registered trapline(s)...? If so, then I think you do care (at least a little) what the "govt" wants. We have NOTHING like that here, and I suspect in most of the states...

Time to go to church

Boco has a point. I have been able to get permission on over 75 pieces of property to trap on over the last 50 years. If I don’t trap on these properties someone else will and I loose that piece of trapping ground when the price goes up. I don’t have to trap as hard, but I do need to show up and catch a few. That’s what I consider furbearer management.

That is not managing furbearers. That is turf protection. I understand turf protection. Boco's barren wasteland theory, does not apply here.

think about whats best for the sport as a whole and not just what is best for you.

I won’t trap at any price. Take beaver for example. I love trapping beaver, but when the market went to nothing I hung up my beaver traps. If a muskrat was bringing 6 or 7 bucks I might trap them through the ice, but I ain’t gonna for $2. Bout the only thing I might trap if the price ranked would be coyotes, because high fawn survival rates and happy ranchers are worth my time even if the fur isn’t. I haven’t targeted coon for a few seasons. I happen to get some in my coyote sets and I skin em when I do though.

Its not a theory Dirt,It is easily seen when doing aerial trapline surveys.Or when you are sent to an area to trap that has not been trapped in a long time,compared to the large amounts of fur that come off well managed lines.

No question in my mind. I'm firmly in Boco's camp on this one. I've done hundreds of hours of aerial track surveys. Areas that get no trapping deteriorate over time, at least in areas I've surveyed.

Jack

I got land from when the ones that use to trap it stop when the price went down and left the farmer stuck with problem animals . I talk with the farmers and told them I will do it only if I get to trap everything and I will trap no matter what the price of fur is. It is because it is just a hobby for me.I might not set any many traps .But the wild life tells me how many to set and manage them for myself. Boco is right for what he said also for how to trap. No matter you are in Canada or the USA .

Ah; there's the rub.

I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with pursing trapping as a "sport" or just as recreation versus those who pursue it as a profession.
It's just that the two different schools of thought are speaking two different languages.

How come it's ALWAYS about the money ???? I just figured on setting a dozen traps out this year. Never figured on making a PROFIT !!!!!!!

1/2 Dozen Dog Proof coon traps and the setter: $69.95

1/2 dozen 1 1/2 Sleepy Creek double jaw coil spring traps $75.75


Lure: $50.00

License: $20.00

Total: $215.70

That's not including gas for the truck.

Do I care to make a Profit ????


NO!!!!! All the money I spent on Hunting and fishing gear and licenses, I never once thought about making a profit . Just do it to get out of the house.

If you're going to trap, no matter what the price, why do you care what stuff sells for or even if it sells since it obviously doesn't change what you will be doing?

I see nobody answered my question. Just another lecture from Ontario.

I trap every year and have for over 50 years, it's human nature to wonder what prices are and what they will be. I trap whatever gets me the greatest return in the shortest amount of time with the least expense. I'm also retired so I don't rely on trapping income.

Dirt-why are my points of view and shared trapline knowledge\experience a lecture and yours is not?

" Lecture; an educational talk to an audience, especially to students in a university or college."

I asked a question. I'm not trying to educate anybody. Well, maybe myself.

This has been a rather interesting discussion. But I will add that there is to little little guy end user development. Fur prices actually have an optimistic view in my mind. However was long as new blood doesn't enter the system. The experienced ones can dictate what pick out of the litter. So it continues. The market needs more fresh users.

Boco and dirt I hope you can agree on something some day.

My personal opinion is...… Since there is money or revenue tied to trapping , we are required to be profitable to justify why we spend all that time and effort. If catching a smallmouth bass only paid 50 cents , would you quit fishing. Is a fish worth 5 dollars ? 10 dollars ?... How much money do we need to shoot a duck ?

Why or how does a trapline deteriorate if it is not used? Just curious

Because if mankind stops regulating the balance nature takes over with its own way of doing things. There will be a rise in predators, causing a decline in prey, then the decline in prey will cause a decline in predators, decline in predators will cause a rise in prey, etc. every few years the balance will swing wildly back and forth. Control the predators and preys numbers, and the cycle will even out and stay fairly even so that the land can yield an abundance of both.

I keep up on my favorite marshes. Because I love marshes and sincerely believe that my activity does make a difference.(Boco theory) I am seasonally employed so I have time over winter. Low markets and little return works on ones attitude but when I quit trapping I quit caring.

During these low value years I’ve slowed down, experiment, analyze and reconstructed my game. Focus on percentage and efficiency. Personally making great strides. Staying sharp. Any value in that?

I am trying some new sets for me and yes I am glad there is not a real sense of urgency about the learning curve. I am trying to learn to use my colonies in bottom edge sets. Waded 1/2 mile of river yesterday, saw little sign and no dens but set out 12 edges. I got one rat today! These rivers were out of their banks almost all year and much of last year so there may not be many rats there either. I found a large wet spot in a field and the last 3 days 3 houses popped up. I won't get to them until we get the two nights of 10 and 8 degrees.

Bryce

I don't get it, why wouldn't you care?

If all of the sudden Ducks were worth something dollar wise, wouldn't a Duck hunter want to know how much? Seems like normal curiosity to me.

My daughter wanted to set some colony traps.out today. All the water is so high we had a hard time finding spots. Spending time.with my daughter was worth more than a rats would ever be. Dropped in 3 colony trap's and we will see.

All this talk will not be worth the wideband use when it is selling season. Try selling an air conditioner right now and see what I am talking about. Where people go wrong is when they don't think fur buyers want money for Christmas just like trappers that sell their fur do. End users rarely need fur this time of year. They are selling the stuff they already have made into garments. LLL

Last receiving date for the march sale at fha is in January.

JANUARY 19 FOR MARCH SALE

Yes, Back between 1997 and 2005 I got to focus on percentage and efficiency. I got it figured out then. Add marketing to that list, but I am always working on this.

My activity certainly makes a difference on some species some of the time. I do not control and cannot control all the variables concerning survival rates for all species. The two most important prey species here are not manageable by me.

Money is part of the equation. For some it is money made, for others it is money lost. Would I trap if fur was worthless? Maybe, but I sure as HE [double hockey sticks] would not be skinning and fleshing. That would then be a terrible waste of a renewable resource. With all the feel good, green, organic, GMO free, renewable people out there. Why can't we get it through their heads that fur is all of this? Plus it is warn and beautiful to boot.

Boco, what species can you determine the population of by doing an aerial survey besides beaver?

Trappers only do aerial surveys for beaver,but biologists do aerial surveys for tracks and animals for wolves,wolverine,and ungulates.
If you do a beaver survey that shows every drainage with dead ponds and houses in series from one end to the other,due to habitat degradation from previous overpopulation you can bet your bottom dollar there will be few if any mink,rats,otter,cats, wolves, marten, fisher in that type of habitat.Poor country for moose too,compared to a managed population where there are series of live ponds one after the other for miles along a drainage.
You can actually see the difference on google earth.Look at the areas where trapping is not allowed like the crown game preserves compared to managed trapping zones,the difference is striking.

I fixed it for you, 52Carl.

w

The reason I like to know what the price on furs are because that I can get them sold, then just waste them out in the woods. If I break even I am happy, if some think it is wrong to think this way then why do they trap for?

So how much leftover stuff does fha auction co. Have on hand from. Ones on here, ? Did mink even sell at all, ? Nafa did manage to sell close 40 mink mine last season, everthing, except possum an 1 coon, did fha even sell hardly a mink ?

bet they sell more than nafa this year.

don't knock em till ya try them.

Ha ha, nafa won't be selling any this coming year, in past, nafa has sold 10 times in quantity as fha sale,

Based on current developments I would consider NAFA a motivated seller

There was an old adage in the fur trade. Best to have a cold blast ahead of the holidays to jump start the consumer. And start the momentum. Does this hold true today? GFW?

Should I be buying GOOS?

coonman,you need to climb off that nafa train,it wrecked.

start researching other avenues ya have and make the best of your time.thats my plan anyway.

And therefore, to the producers whose fur NAFA still holds hostage, I say: BOHICA !!!

w

We are all going to be rich this year off of our furs $100 coyotes,$50 fox,$35 coon,$35 mink,$12 muskrats,$40 beavers,$100 otter,$300 bobcat,$100 fisher and $100 marten LOL.

I would like to see $12 rats , there is not many around here right now , and $100 otter again ,I would drive a little then .

BO-HI-CA

I think we agree on not referring to trapping as a sport. Public approval for recreational trapping is low,. around 35% right at the bottom. The public does not seem to care too much for trapping for money( around 43%), but they seem awful supportive of subsistence trapping ( livelihood ) around 75%.

I agree.

ooops,i used that term by mistake,wasn't trying to stir anything up,sooooo sorry.i will try to chose my words better next time.

gotta go put up fur for trappers that don't have the time.

gooood day

You are just repeating the word used in many trapping publications including the American Trapper and the former International Trapper.

nah i was messin with ya but you are right.

Proly enjoy being in the outdoors losing a little money most years than being in stores loading up credit cards. I find shopping just to be shopping expensive and rather boring.

I wonder if fur will be like Wisconsin's dairy industry. If milk prices rise, it seems farmers ramp up production & send the price down.

Fashion drives the market imo

Boy it’s cold out there. Does a fella have to go clear to China for a coat with a decent liner? By decent I’m referring to muskrat.

My children are interested and need to learn to work hard. Therefore, I will take a week of vacation and trap with my children and they can see the rewards of hard work and learn about utilizing a renewable, sustainable resource that needs managed. They will see me struggle to work hard for a while and finish all my fur this winter. Then they will see me stand back, appreciate my catch, and take it to sell. I will be rewarded some unknown amount financially, but the time I get to spend with my children teaching them is priceless to me. If I do not teach them to appreciate Gods creation and how to harvest it and care for it, I have failed them as a father.

I sold to Groenwald today. Sold 20 coon for $8.90 average. $20.00 was the top end, $2 on the bottom.

12 rats for a $2.50 average. $5 on the top end, $1 on the bottom.

1 very early male mink for $2.

All the fur was from mid October on, all was put up. It was just a sampling of my fur, wasn't cherry picked.

Thought some would be interested.

Thanks for the update

If Boco and Dirt ever agree on anything, it won't be the end of a fur market, but probably the end of the Earth.

So, has GFW's basis on coon slid a little since last year or because they were early coon? Last year, I thought their top on finished big coon was $25 or maybe that was in Dec with fully prime late Nov and Dec coon? What was the 2 buck finished, a 1xl coon...?

mid oct.-early.

I pretty sure we agree on investing in a Bonis, so we don't have to sell our fur below production cost to middlemen.

Agree.

there ya go,film at 11

Incase anyone is interested. I sold 7 coons to GFW today. Top was 15, bottom was 5. Averaged $9.71. These were all green. I feel it was pretty fair for some early season coon.

Prn- Did you sell in Lennox or Canton or further south?

Lennox

Where are the price predictions for this year? I'm tired of Sunday night TV and need some entertainment ( especially trappers valuations)!