WI Gun Deer Thread

Next Saturday Guys! Can't wait. Heading out to the deer shack Friday after work.

Good Luck to Everyone!

Yep! Son and I both have Friday off so I am heading up to his place for the hunt for the weekend. Friday night we head to the landowner's shack to sip a little whiskey and catch up for the year. Saturday night they all come over to my son's place for a big feed...and sipping a little whiskey. Hope fully we will all be great successful warriors and dance around pounding our spears on our shields!

Have a safe and fun hunt!

Moosetrot

Skipping opening weekend but will hunt later and muzzleloader if necessary.

I got 3 days work this week , might be the longest 3 days of the year , although if like last week I was so busy , I have Thursday off to get packed and headed up first thing Friday Morning.

Heading up Friday AM to the northern retreat. The utility firm needs to replace the gas line meter and will do that Friday while we are there. Son will come up Friday after work. We hunt about a day and a half or so and come home. This year the schedule looks so full probably won't go back up after Turkey Day. Promised the 3 granddaughters I would work with them on making 3 Gingerbread houses with them and they are raring to go.

Bryce

Good luck everyone.

Going up again for the whole season but have not got a deer the past 7 years. We hardly ever see deer. The wolves have taken over our territory in the National Forest. Years ago it use to be awesome trophy hunting.

Will walk out my back door as usual opener. After that I will carry the rifle with beaver trapping. I enjoy the muzzle loader season alot more after the army of orange has went home.

Setting up deer camp Thursday. Should have the woodstove purring, the Coleman lanterns humming and the cribbage board pegging by sundown. Put in a few mink sets for fun Friday morning and get stands ready in the afternoon. Good luck and be safe out there.

Wishing everyone a safe hunt out there and an enjoyable hunt. The forecast suggests moderate, almost mild temps for our opener. Partly sunny, highs upper 30's to 40, here around Fall Creek.
Was initially planning to hunt the opener up at a friend's cabin SW of Grand View, but won't make it up there until muzzleloader season now. Have to hang close to the farm for family reasons.

Nice thing that the orange army usually retreats by Sunday afternoon.

They might stay out all day Sunday. Packers don't play 'til after seven.

It's always interesting to hear when the first shot "sounds off" on opening day. Many times it's 20 minutes or better before the legal time, at least by me. Can be earlier if there's snow.

My son and I heading out Friday to my sister cottage. We have hunted from there for many years now with my brother and couple others. Back in September the piece of county woods we hunt was marked for clear cutting. The tree I actually lock my seat on has been marked as has the whole area our group hunts. I've shot 5 deer from that spot and before that it was my older brother stand..My brother checked with the county and someone did place a bid to cut that woods.. So having not been there for couple weeks we aren't sure our woods won't be buzzing with skidders and cutters, We are all hopping they don't get started working until after deer season. Then for next year for sure we will have to scout new place to be. Just one of them things have to deal with on public land. My original stand in that area was cut over after tornado went threw, That was 11 years ago and they salvaged cut all that. It's now young pines so thick can hardly walk in there..


Mac

I'll be going to my daughter's school to eat lunch with her on Thursday then heading up to camp right away. My hope is to get a half dozen or so fisher sets spread throughout our woods, all in locations that look fisher-y and that are nearby others' stands so they can check them for me while going hunting so I dont have to traipse all over their spots.

We will have 6 of us in camp this year. Normally we spend Friday splitting and stacking wood, but this year our wood bins are all full so maybe we'll go fishing if this warm weather doesn't chew up too much of the ice. We had 4.5" when fishing on the 15th.

Good luck to all and stay safe!

Mac, that area you've been hunting that's about to be logged off will be really good in a couple of years. You can find good stands along the edges where the logging stopped. The county foresters are usually pretty good to work with, regarding info about activities and timelines.

We had more deer movement at our gun club after it was logged then before. The deer will love the new growth. Sure, the patterns will change, but don't count that property out at all.

Yahoo can’t wait for all city folk to come up, drink and drive like.
There is no repercussions and shoot Bambi hung over the next day and
Be bragging about it by noon Saturday. This coming week is one of the most
Annoying weeks of the year. Lots of small bucks will get shot and does will
Get wiped out on the public land bc there handing out doe tags like they do
Welfare. Yuck.
Sorry to sound pessimistic but wi rifle season is a joke. Hopefully the rut will be wound down and
Some of the young deer will make it.

Well, maybe you should help the rest of us set a good example to those who don't get it.

Forgot about Friday night "sighting in"


Ill be hunting but not till Wednesday 27th. Still hunting along the Pike or one of its creeks.

Ill be hunting but not till Wednesday 27th. Still hunting along the Pike or one of its creeks.[/quote]

Sounds like a good plan. Nice country up and over there. Hunted grouse south of there in the Benson Lake Road neighborhood years ago.

k snow
Yep I know we will all survive the cutting have for years now. The piece we hunt is 2X3 mile square and we have hunted that same piece since the mid 1970s..Back then I moved 3 times due to the way they cut it in different patterns. In fact where we are now is because the place we started in 70s was clear cut so we moved to east side. That piece is actually grown up now and maybe where we move back to once this piece we are on is cut? I may just have to move across the big marsh I sit along now. Other side of marsh was cut several years ago..There is another group of guys though that are on other side of the marsh.. We'll figure it out all ways do. May just have to sit closer to the edge of the pines they planted on the storm cut. That is kind of what we doing now. They just decided it was time to cut all older growth all the way around the 10 year old storm cut.

Mac

I forgot about Friday night sight in. Truck loads of corn when there is no baiting in the surrounding
3 counties lol my parents have a supper club/ small bar up here so I got the full effect of the shackers
Growing up. Can still go there on the Friday night of opener and see the same people from 20 years ago
Telling the same Stories at the bar. I don’t mind people coming up north. Deer season just hosts a lot of rude
Folks from southern wi and Illinois that are on a care free bing when there up here.
Good luck to all the hunters this coming week, be safe and Respect the north woods.

Understand your disgust and frustration. We all see this around the state. Probably has been this way for many years.

Last year I went to a local church on Friday night before the opener for a hunters stew supper. I got the squirts so bad I missed opening morning.

I don't think I will have any stew this year

WS

I had to LOL when I read this. Sorry my friend!

I thought I would add some eye candy to add to the excitement. This was from last year.

purty nice buck

Looking pretty warm for the opener, then cruddy mid-week.

Here's to hoping We get it done opening weekend.

Nice buck! Seen on the weather channel that there might be a big snow storm coming before Thanksgiving.

1 to 1 1/2 inches of rain Wednesday and Thursday now. 31 o for high on Friday hopefully stiffens the rain and mud up a little bit. 9 days of woods, and family. Happy Happy

Forecast here for Thursday is 1" of rain so looks like a soggy start on Saturday.

The ground up by us has been frozen for 2 weeks in Langlade county, and the forecast is for less than half an inch of rain Wednesday day then cooling down some Thursday night. Hoping to get out ice fishing again on Friday so I'm not tempted to be out in the woods. We had 4.5 inches on a nearby lake last Friday.

The deer kill Is going to way down In Rock Dane and Iowa counties this year. Thousands of acres of standing corn and It's not going to be harvested till late Dec. First few shots and all the deer will be In the corn.

I think you are right Beav. There is standing corn almost everywhere.

Same in Chippewa and Taylor as well Beav.

Throw La Crosse County on that list. With the rain they are predicting I doubt any more will get but.

Moosetrot

You guys got to drive them corn fields with mass of guys, get them big bucks moving.. No chance for any accidental shootings doing that. Right?
Have seen some nice bow shot deer shot doing STALK and sneak in corn field..Much safer..

Mac

Drives are like guns, they aren't dangerous, if done correctly. Pushers don't shoot. Posters have very specific shooting areas. Identify target before shooting.

I can just imagine 3 guys stalking through 8 foot corn watching for deer. Some body could get shot just as easy in that scenario.

Probably wouldn't get shot In corn field but you might get lost LOL
The corn rows In our fields around here are pretty tight and you would have a tough time just walking through them. And how do you drive a 200 acre corn field?

I think there was a hunting incident in Michigan over the weekend where one a guy shot his brother in a cornfield while they were tracking a wounded deer.

I've done some cornfield drives before, like others have said they can be safe if done properly. No guns for the drivers and safe lanes of fire for the shooters. We had a few fields around here getting harvested over the weekend because of the cold weather it must have frozen just enough to get in and out.

Yep, there is a lot of standing corn, and will be through the deer seasons.
With the cooler, wet fall, the corn hasn't dried down as it usually does, and many farmers are not wanting to spend any more money on propane to dry it down than they have to. Desired moisture levels before combining the corn is 15% or less, I've heard that moisture levels are averaging around 25 %. That's a lot of LP.

Back in the Fall of 1985, we had so much rain that over half of the corn in WI stood in the fields all winter. Deer hunting was more challenging that year.....looks like we will have a similar situation again this year.

Will be checking wind direction opening morning and then deciding which stand to hunt behind the house. Was fortunate to harvest a nice 10pt during archery season and have a few bucks on camera that might be worth taking, need to see in person. Have a few anterless tags to fill too. Weather looks nice for opener!

Good Luck and be safe!

Dave

Nice one Alex congratulations! Lot of hot dogs there..

Mac

Headed out tomorrow afternoon to set up blinds. Lots of corn still standing all around the farm. Aunt and Uncle haven't seen many deer outside the corn. Might be a slow year.

Thanks Mac! Got into the stand late with hopes of filling an anterless tag, did not see a deer until 30 minutes from closure when he came thru feeding. Wind was in my face and he never knew I was there. I guess you spend enough time in the woods and get lucky once in a while!

Dave

Nice looking buck Dave!

Safe travels to all who are leaving tonight or heading out tomorrow.

Good luck Saturday.

Brian

voice drive time , to get them moving.

good luck

a safe hunt to all

Where we hunt in a national forest there never is or are any crop changes or slow harvests etc. Not as many deer or hunters anymore but we enjoy the larger woods experience even though we don't eat as much venison. This year the change will be is that any and all low spots will be very, very wet and not frozen either. That won't change deer patterns much but sure will change mine a bit.

Bryce

I was out scouting some today , hip boots are going to be necessary to reach many places , scouting higher ground tomorrow.

Wishing everyone a safe and successful hunt!
Heading up to Ladysmith this morning- my son has a bobcat tag so he will make some sets that he can check on the way to his stand this week and I'll make some fisher sets, might drop a few weasel boxes in along the way also.
Good Luck Everyone

Good luck everyone and be safe. Just got back from CO with a nice 6x6. I'm going to take my father out in the glorified tower that everyone makes fun of. Not really interested in shooting whitetail, but will enjoy the time I have left with Dad. He enjoys just shooting pictures anymore and thats fine by me.

Got another decent public land buck today!
Hope it went well for those out!

Not enough signal to post pics but The Boy was in the stand with me again this year and picked out a doe this afternoon that came into the stand and I shot it at 17 paces from the stand he pulled it out of the woods for us (about 150 yards) and we gutted it in the field then he drug it to the cabin. Mostly down hill but I was impressed with his enthusiasm for the job as the deer weighed 120lbs and he goes 65 with a full stomach. He didnt want me to help but I insisted as the pull about stopped on any rise in terrain but he did it for the most part by himself and I for one am proud of his effort. Tomorrow he says we will get our buck, lol. Good luck and stay safe out there everyone!!!

Congratulations deerfly that is a nice looking buck!
Was a decent day for me with seeing three doe opening morning and no clear shot. Then in the evening an adult doe with two buck fawns I elected to pass with hopes a buck would be following. 20 minutes later I think the neighbor shot her. Oh well back in the stand in a few hours.
Dave

We are back from our day and a half in the National Forest. Was in the woods 10 hours Saturday and 4.5 Sunday. Heard 2 shots within a mile of me and we saw sign but no deer. Weather was great so one could sit all day and with it being 22 Sat.AM and 30 Sunday AM the leaves crackled like H so still hunting was out. Very, very limited hunters both days. Did have two groups drive sections of the forest right near us. About 7-8 in each group but never heard any shooting. We totally miscalculated about the high water. Yes there was water every where but froze hard enough to walk on it so we did not need the higher rubber boots. Changed up to the better boots to keep our feet warm. Flushed or heard lots of grouse and am seeing way more grey squirrels where I used to see red squirrels.

Home safe and that is a good thing. Time to turn on the football game.

Bryce

Thats interesting.

How has the habitat and environment change?


Go Pack Go

I finally have something worthwhile to contribute to this thread. Shot a really nice doe just before last light tonight. She weighed 160 pounds live weight and came in with another doe and 2 fawns.

Besides me we had 7 other hunters in camp hunting all or most of the day both Saturday and Sunday and none saw a live deer during legal shooting hours. But still a fun time in our camp. I'm the 5th generation there and hopefully it goes another 5 generations at least.

I will offer some of my thoughts on why there may be a change in species, but remember this is just based on being in the woods in this reason only since the mid 1980s and that is a not even the life span of an aspen tree.

Bryce

More acres of standing corn around here than woods. Been a very difficult hunt so far and doesn't look like much hope for the corn harvest before the season ends. Should be more deer next year if there's a bright side to this. Good luck to you all.

Saw 20 deer all does. Killed one and know I'm done .

Sounds like an exciting hunt. That story kept me on the edge of my seat the whole time.

I'm glad you enjoyed It. LOL

Set camp in the river bottoms Thursday. Took care of getting stands ready Friday. Noted the area had been under water most of the summer. Sat in the tree stand 'til 10:30 Saturday morning, saw no deer. Mini drive to a buddy down a finger in the swamp, pushed no deer. Lunch at camp, noted the river was coming up fast, real fast. Got a hold of Susan, asked how the hydrograph at Muscoda looked. She said it's going up. We had water within a vertical foot of the tent. Thursday when we set camp it was within 3 feet vertically.

Stuck a stick at the water's edge and we broke camp Saturday afternoon. By 3:00 the water had gained 2" vertically. Back to the landing by 4:00. Fella from Iowa was there, said he paid $80 for an out of state license which also gave him 3 doe tags. Said blue tongue had ravaged the deer herd near where he normally hunted. Said more than likely it's hit here too as evidenced by little sign. I'd have to agree. Kickapoo River Valley was the scene of 100+ dead deer found awhile back. Who knows how many in the weeds.

Very few shots heard Saturday. Dunno. Might be time to relocate deer camp for 2020. Have hunted this same area since '86. High water the last two years. Seems to be the new norm.

View from my stand Saturday morning. Sure was nice out there.

What is the nest ?

Eagles.

Ok I am back to civilization and can post pics. The Boy and I didnt see a buck but saw 15 deer so it was fun. I let him bring the 410 for a walk and he got his first grouse before our yearly camp photo. He will be able to shoot deer next year so this was a good learning experience hiking with a gun he was very good but being 8 tired out quickly
I dont think we sat in a stand he didnt nap in. He also got 2 red squirrels by the cabin so that's great as everyone knows they reak havoc on the buildings. Great weekend!!!

Muskrat that stinks about the high water. Do you really think its blue tongue or just the water being up and not enough food that's pushed them out?

100+ dead deer confirmed blue tongue found nearby in Kickapoo River Valley. Nobody really knows the numbers. We've hunted this area in high water before and taken deer. Just not this high this quick.

The bean counters should have a handle on numbers in Madison soon. That should give us some idea of the relative numbers per county.

Nice pics by the way. I remember dozing while Dad was hunting back when. Precious pictures.

Muskrat
When I see the pic with the tree up turned by the root ball. It looks like lots of places here along the river. Constant high water this summer when the storms came threw. Made it easy for the wind to push over lot of trees on the islands, their roots now sticking up.. Summer long high water has really took a tole on some of the islands. River here was on it's way down, but is once again headed back up. Can't seem to catch a break and get back to normal..

Mac

Ain't that the truth. More rain tonight and snow up north. River will push up again. In La Crosse this morning, will take the river road south to PDC. See if it takes more than 2 hands to count 'rat huts.

Hunted three days, saw 0 deer during legal hours. Only heard a dozen shots between saturday and sunday. Very little deer sign on the farm this year.

That blue tongue may solve our lack of ability to get a handle on our CWD and it may work like distemper in some other species. Come in and clean things out and then let the population come back. Not a nice way to solve an issue but nature finds ways when man wants to live in the socio/political world.

Bryce

Here is my opening weekend report for our parcel in SW Manitowoc County.

Saturday morning 3 doe around 7:30am, no activity and left stand at 9AM to tend to some plumbing issues by my parents. Back in stand Saturday evening at 2:30pm. 3:30pm had a doe with twin buck fawns come in from down-wind and elected to pass hoping for a buck to follow. 20 minutes later heard neighbor to the West shoot once, this is where the deer were heading when last seen. No activity after that.
Here is a video of the three:
https://youtu.be/zpkNeXfsp0U

Sunday morning nothing by me, two shots from neighbor to the immediate South. Left stand at 9:45am. Set out two dozen coon traps and two otter sets. Back in stand at 3pm. 3:30pm had medium doe trot thru with a small buck harassing her. 4:25pm had a doe and single fawn come in and harvested her at 15yds.
Video of the little buck after the doe went thru: https://youtu.be/bOst_ZEtnS4

Don't plan to get back out until Wednesday afternoon. Have a buddy coming out tonight for rest of the season and having a niece's husband come hunt Wednesday night / Thursday morning. See how things go.

Dave

Opening weekend deer kill down 27% from 2018.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/patch....ly-deer-hunt-totals-down-27-percent-2018

That's quite a drop. Curious to hear the "official" explanation.

Standing corn is the only reason I can see in the farm country here in Sauk County. High water everywhere, I would guess there are folks who could not access areas they were used to in the low lands.
I saw 7 or 8 deer on Saturday and shot a small buck in the afternoon. Never saw a deer on Sunday, sure could not blame the weather, it was a pretty nice weekend here.

Zim

Went outside Saturday morning and I saw a string of satellites all connected toghether. Thought I was going crazy until I ready this: https://www.space.com/see-spacex-starlink-satellites-in-night-sky.html


Took an 8 pointer about 7:20 but can't get the image to upload. Quiet opening weekend.

Some of the rationale or reasons for lower first weekend harvest that I heard from the wildlife biologist are

1. A whole week later than last year. The latest that the opener can be and that moves the opener further away from the peak rut. Deer may be moving much less as the regather energy from the rut
2. Standing crops in much of the major farm country where most of the deer are harvested
3. Warm conditions which means people and animals don't need to move to keep warm
4. Abut 30-40,000 less licenses sold roughly so there are fewer hunters

Not part of the biologist's statements but we are seeing far, far fewer hunters in the national forest where we hunt. I would guess in the 6 square miles we are familiar with there is 1 maybe two hunters for every 10 there were 15 years ago. We also get a few groups of larger numbers that drive a couple square miles in two drives early on Saturday which is a real change that happened in the past Sunday afternoon.
Did flush and see as many grouse as I have seen hunting in several years.
Bryce

Nothing about blue tongue, eh?

Something happened to the deer in Grant & Crawford counties. I say it's blue tongue as well. This year I went bowhunting 22 times. I hunt on private ground in southwest Grant county. I didn't see a deer in 9 of those trips. In 5 of the 13 other trips I saw 1 deer. That is unacceptable and not what I'm used to at all. I saw 6 bucks total and only 2 of those were over 1.5 years old. They were both I'm guessing 2.5 years old, nothing big. I shot one of them on November 14th, a 9 point. I'm happy with that and lucky to have gotten one.

I gun hunt as well and on Saturday I saw 3 deer total. 2 small bucks I passed on and a doe. On Sunday I saw 5 deer total. 1 small spike and 3 does and a fawn. I passed on the doe, fawn and spike.The other 2 does were on the move. I won't shoot a doe with the low number of deer I'm seeing. I also don't want to shoot a small buck. The only exception on that is if it's late and I don't have a deer yet. I walked my butt off Sunday probably around 3 miles or more. I also went Monday morning for a walk at a couple of spots and didn't see anything.
The deer aren't there period. I don't care what the DNR says. I talked to the neighboring landowner Sunday night and he didn't see much of anything either and agrees the deer aren't there.

This morning at work I talked to a guy who hunts in Crawford on private ground just outside of PDC. Their group got 2 bucks and he saw 1 doe. His sister who lives on the farm they hunt told him a while ago the deer disappeared over the summer and early fall.

The DNR can make up excuses all they want but the weather was nice for opening weekend. Temps were about perfect and no wind. The deer aren't there in the numbers they say. If they have 2 brain cells they should be worried. People that are on the fence about keeping on hunting aren't going to bother buying licenses when they don't see anything to keep them interested. The number of hunters is dropping and this isn't going to help.

Here's another thing I'll bring up. This year I had the deadest rut activity I can remember. I never saw a buck on a hot doe and never heard any hot doe being chased around the woods like I have other years. I saw 2 bucks following 2 different does but they were just following not right on her like she was in heat. Around here it was the rut that never happened. It makes me wonder if the does got bred. Also I take time off work and am in the woods a lot in late October and early November.

Here is a nice comparison of opening weekends 2018 v. 2019: https://dnr.wi.gov/topic/wildlifehabitat/documents/deer_Prelim9day_2018v2019.pdf

Badger23, have you had any trail cameras out? How was the activity on them?

I hunt northern Langlade county, no farmland within 15 miles, mostly hardwoods and hemlock swamps. So not exactly what I would call a habitat with a high carrying capacity for deer. This year we have had around 10 different bucks on camera, as well as a few different dow groups totalling around 8 or 9 antlerless deer. This all over an area around 160 acres at most.

We had 8 guys hunting most or all of the day Saturday and Sunday and I was the only one who saw any deer during legal shooting hours, one of the doe groups with 4 deer. If we didnt have trail cameras out, we would be thinking there are few if any deer around. Fact is it's a late season this year and lots of deer are hunkered down.

I don't get all the DNR bashing that goes on in Wisconsin. I've heard some griping from others about their state's equivalent of the DNR, but the vocal majority of Wisconsinites seem to have a hatred for the DNR and would never admit they ever did anything right. There was a whole thread on here not too long ago that went on for 3 or 4 pages of folks talking about all the regulation changes they would make in Wisconsin, and that's just trapping.

Every time the DNR makes a facebook post, no matter what it's about, there are always people commenting and complaining about one thing or another, whether it's related to the post or not. Almost every one of them is nothing more than an armchair biologist, with nothing more to back up their opinion than anecdotal evidence. "I hunted today and didn't see any deer. There must not be 2 million deer in the state."

I just don't get it. Rant over.

my great aunt hosts deer camp most years , she was having heart issues , but is like a new woman now with her pace maker and new valve.

my great uncle her little brother had to be moved to hospice care about 6 weeks ago. he died last Tuesday.

my son and I had made plans to go with my sons friend's family and some of the other boys from school. untill the young man broke his arm Wednesday before opener so then none of the boys were going.

I haven't not headed up hunting on Friday in 18 years and that was for the anticipated birth of my oldest daughter who was born weeks later , man was Friday hard funnerl a ferw days away and everything I did made me think about my uncle who I have hunted 26 of the last 28 years with.

we made the best of it and went out locally Saturday , it was ok. we saw 2 deer my son had a shot but only through some very thick brush so he passed.

My great uncle's funeral was Monday and after the funeral at the dinner I was talking with some cousins , and my son and I were invited out with a cousin this morning.

well I was ecstatic my son was able to bag a buck at around 7:30 this morning. but my cousin said we should do a little drive he had a 20 acre woods that hadn't been driven this year so he drove it to the little hay field and I picked up a nice buck.

then we loaded the 2 bucks on the mini van for the drive home.

How many counties do you think were really impacted by it? Surely it is devastating in small pockets, but guessing not that many in the big picture?

I can see those other items having a bigger impact. We have lots of crops up here, but I was lucky enough to benefit from some standing beans that the farmer couldn't get to. Deer been pouring into them and the cut corn field, but the bucks have been white. Decided to shoot a doe this afternoon and there was still 8 in the field when I took the ranger out to pick it up.

I don't have any cameras, I've never had one. I'm going off previous years which total 37 previous years hunting the same land (250 acres) and area. Corn and bean fields all around it so plenty of habitat plus creeks running through the property. In my area the corn and beans are out. The other guys that hunt on this land also didn't see anything much and I talked to the one guys dad on Monday and he said his son saw 1 doe on Saturday. He didn't talk to him Sunday night. So it's not just me that didn't see much for deer activity. The neighbor that I talked to Sunday night said the same thing. Something changed here from last year to this year. And I'll take peoples word that are actually out and my time that I spend in the woods in October and November over someone who drives a desk for a living. The fact is my area has far less deer activity. I also stopped one day and talked to the township patrolman in early November that I know and asked him flat out if he's been seeing many deer and he said not many. He's got quite a bit of time driving these roads early morning and he wasn't seeing much either. On my 14 mile drive to and from the land I saw far fewer deer this year than I have in the past as well.

https://dnr.wi.gov/topic/wildlifehabitat/disease.html

Apparently our corner of the state is at the tip of this outbreak. Obviously EHD/blue tongue isn't responsible for the drop in deer kill statewide. All the conditions offered above certainly factored into it. However, one needs to talk to folks who have "boots on the ground" in this area to get a feel for what's happening with the deer herd in southwestern WI. Time will tell. Dead does don't make babies.

Comparisons 2018 vs 2019 statewide county by county.

https://dnr.wi.gov/topic/wildlifehabitat/documents/deer_Prelim9day_2018v2019.pdf

Those are huge percentage drops from last year to this year. That is NOT going to help sell more tags next year at all.

Bowhunting this year I saw very little daytime activity. There are far fewer deer hits on the roads around here this year as compared to last year.

Where I do see deer, I see lots of them, like herds of 6 to 10. Seems they herded up before the rut even started around here and have turned nocturnal.

New this morning reporting that DNR said deer kill was probably down due to. Weather, standing corn crops, and how the Thanksgiving Holiday fell? Not sure about how that last one factors in. They said nothing about lower herd numbers anywhere in state. Only told which county had highest kill.


Mac

Thanksgiving was very late this year, which means that most, if not all, rut activity was over by the time gun season got here.

How many freezers have unreported deer in them? More than a few I'd wager. Not enough to account for a double digit drop in reported numbers, but does make one wonder how that honesty factor is working.

I'm sure that plays in a bit, but 25 to 30 percent pretty much statewide? I think there is something else going on, most likely a number of factors.

Those of us who hunt public lands have a whole different hunting experience than those who own/access private property. A significant drop in deer numbers county wide does not translate into equal numbers on private vs public lands. No solution in sight. It is what it is.

I hunt private land, and saw 0 deer during daylight. The land I hunt is near Mad city, so there a lot of non-huntable acres that the deer can occupy.

Not all private land is loaded with deer. Not all public land is void of deer.

Don't you have 5 days to register your deer? How can they come up with those figures from opening week end.

I'm one them like you hunts public land..Total deer seen for 3 days in woods including the buck I shot Saturday morning was 3.. Saturday I saw and shot the buck no other deer seen rest of the day. Sunday two deer and Monday none. There are 5 of us in the group and it was pretty much the same for all of us..Two guys seen none on Saturday my son who was couple hundred yards to north of me saw just a glimpse of the deer I shot..
Pretty sad in our woods and also very quiet. Even though there were two or 3 other small groups in same piece woods..

Anyone who has never hunted what they now call Central Forest land wouldn't understand it.. Even though I live in what is now the big buck farm land area. I've hunted my whole life in that Jackson, Clark County forest land.. Trust me it has changed a great deal in my 60 some years playing and hunting there.


Mac

Very true.
I saw 20 some deer on opening morning I filled my tag but only 2 of those deer were shootabale. Private land.

Not 5 days. Must be registered by 5pm the day after the harvest.

Stupid rule. Only for the bean counters. If you're in the "way backs" camped or in a cabin and out of cell phone range you just became a violater. Or you waste hunting time Sunday trying to find cell phone reception if you get a deer Saturday.

Well I tried every thing possible but I couldn't get It registered. Until Mon when I had to actually call the DNR and go through the process.

If you like me I just dang near plain forgot, did it early Sunday morning before going in back in woods.. Would have been easy to just say well deer is home why even bother..I've would never do that but I'm sure some do.

Mac

No argument here about that. Just add that to the long list of rules that make little or no sense.

I saw ya down at millville landing, guessing thats the area your camping! old fella i talked to said yall left with a boat load and was worried about you, told him you do it all the time! hopefully yall had some luck or at least a good time

Had a good time for sure. But it was cut short. stayed in my stand till 11 Saturday morning, did a mini drive towards one of my buddies, and return to camp for lunch. River had come up within a vertical foot of the tent. And was rising. We broke camp and got out of there. First time since 86 I had to break camp before we got wet. Last year the area was already flooded and we hunted in a different location.

Maybe try hunting from a canoe? I've seen several deer along the banks of rivers while checking traps. Some times they just look at you funny, some run, others just walk away.

Wolves moved in by us. Out of 11 guys we got zero bucks and passed up maybe 20 does. We found the remains of 2 wolf kills and sighted 5 different wolves. Right now we have a foot of wet snow with 25 mph winds and still snowing. This is the worst season ever and I've been doing it for over 50 years. Enough whining. Time to put on the knee brace and snowblow a path to the downed tree blocking the driveway.

That works. Have used the technique several times, but prefer a lightweight Jon boat.

You can conduct successful "mini" drives with 2 or 4 hunters leapfrogging down a river. With two, check wind for best side to drive, then drop one off on the bank and quietly row/paddle down 200 yards or so. Pull boat up on bank, take a stand offering good view of river upstream and into the woods along the bank upstream. Dropped off hunter begins still hunting towards the boat. Good technique.

With four hunters you drop off two, one on each bank, go down the river, standers on each side.

We've done this on several rivers down here. Good later season technique when most hunters have found the couch and the deer have somewhat settled down.

I believe it is by 5pm the day after the animal is recovered so that could lead to two days after it being shot when the recovery is made the following day.

Dave

Correct, Alex, the reg's use the word "recovered."

Muskrat, sounds like a fun way to hunt. I can see a jon boat being somewhat more stable for that.

I did the canoe hunt thing for a season in the forest when it was very warm for the opener. Got the canoe in at about 5 AM and paddled the 3/4 of a mile to a big beaver dam where I had seen lots of sign. Got organized and out and when I got to where I planned to sit there was a guy already there. He had come in about 1/2 mile from the logging road. Got in the canoe and paddled to the other side and as I touched the shore a hunter flashed his flashlight 3 times. He came in off a logging road about 3/4 of a mile! So I paddle back and found a place to hunt. That was 20 odd years ago when there were many hunters in the area. Might be doable now. I always pictured in my mind those photos one sees of a guy paddling a canoe with a buck on board. Just never worked out for me.

Bryce

I was thinking more of shooting from the canoe/boat. Obviously you couldn't have a motor. I've seen quite a few deer right along the water's edge when paddling.

I have killed 10 deer out of a boat. All during the bow season.
Set up 30 yards from a major deer crossing (small streams) and fill your tags.

If you're hunting by yourself you do use a motor. Once you're downstream and done, you fire the motor up and head back to the landing.

My nephew. Douglas County. Thanksgiving Day. Within a couple miles of Highway 2 !

My son and I did two push drives through two patches of woods about 10 acres each. We did not move any deer and in two hours heard two shots on T Day. Today I was making 3 gingerbread houses with my 3 granddaughters! That was a 6 hour deal but we had a good time and they enjoyed going shopping for all the candies to stick on. My son still hunted a 30 acre public piece and no hunters and no deer moved this afternoon. I chose to do the gingerbread deal instead of drive the 200 miles to hunt up north with all the weather we have had and will have.

Bryce

Well boys - the traditional 9 day gun deer season is over. Hard weather conditions across the state on the last weekend - torrential rains, sleet, and snow. I have a feeling the overall kill will be way down. The good news is a lot of bucks will make it through so they will be bigger next year.

Hope everyone had a safe, satisfying season.

Brian

Yes one typically does not wish the season to pass but this was the season where the "perfect storm" is probably a good description of the multitude of elements that factored into what for me was a forgettable hunt. I am getting used to eating "vegetarian stew" but I have almost always had A-HAH moments or aspects that one relates in future times but there was a real absence of those for me this year.

Can't say much for trapping weather either however.

Bryce

Most of the guys in our camp headed home Saturday afternoon to beat the storm home. My dad stuck around to plow one last time after the snow that came overnight. Glad I didnt have to try and make that 2 hour drive home today. Would've been white knuckle for sure.

I agree, kill will be way down. It was down 27% after opener when most of the deer are killed, then 2 major snow events in the 2md half of the season. Weather looks good for muzzleloader season though! May try and get out for the late antlerless season to put one more in the freezer, but my focus is quickly shifting to ice fishing.

Filled my tag with a spike buck in the last 15 minutes of the season today. Was really regretting passing up 20+ does early in the season. Dragging the deer out of the swamp through 18 inches of snow was exhausting even with an otter sled. At 68 years old I need to have a better plan. Next year I will shoot a doe the first weekend when I have help. Out of 12 guys 2 small bucks were taken including this one. We had numerous bucks on trail cams preseason. Where they disappear to is a mystery.

I decided to wait to fill my last antlerless tag with the bow even though I had plenty of opportunities last night. Never could catch up to a buck this year that I was interested in. First year that I saw more white bucks than brown ones from the gun stand, but that was just because I only saw one brown buck all gun season.

I'd call this a successful hunt great time with The Boy in the stand. He sure is excited about getting his chance to hunt deer next year.
https://youtu.be/skGNfXUkoXU

Overall kill down 14%. Local news story: https://fox11online.com/sports/deer-hunt/dnr-total-2019-wisconsin-deer-kill-down-14

County by County, Season by Season breakdown for those who are interested in the data:
https://dnr.wi.gov/topic/wildlifehabitat/harvest/deerharvest.html

Yep late start to rifle season and bad weather. Still lots of deer according to WDNR

I harvested and registered 2 deer but really had to work hard for them. Heard from others that stated why even register them, we didn't! Makes you wonder how many other hunters fail to register the harvest or register their first bow kill deer but skip the rest! Just my opinion!

Chris

In the grand scheme of things, I don't think it really matters if every hunter registers their deer. I for one will always register every one I get, but if even 10% of people don't, that's still fewer deer than get shwacked by cars every year. I don't condone it, but I dont think it's nearly as common as some people claim or fear it is.

Ok would be willing to bet at the very low end 30% don’t get registered. It is a huge amount.

Any evidence, any at all, to back that claim up? What do you "bet" it was when in person registration was required?

This is exactly what I'm talking about.

if there are so many they should just make the tags good till March 31 and close season when quota is met for a county.

I keep hearing about the huge number of non registered deer. Yet everyone I know and communicate with reliably register. And for just me, that is a quite a few hunters. I don't buy the numbers claimed.

If there were or are nearly 2 million deer in WI and we kill about 300K per year we will not lower the population, especially in the highly productive areas where deer numbers are already above desired carrying capacities.
Another issue with many deer not being registered is that we lose track of the sex and age aspect of the herd. We have about 6 or more different deer hunting seasons with a very lose registration policy so we don't know which hunting method has the highest percentage of non registered deer. What we can anticipate from poorer data or less data is more range or variability in the hunting outcomes or success rates. I can remember in the 1980s and 1990s the DNR would estimate the number of deer harvested based on the data and information they collected. There were factors for weather etc. included and there were many seasons when their estimates were far less then 5% of their estimate. Today we can't even get to 25% and with the actions that we have taken we won't get more accurate until we can develop a statistical method that includes all the changes we have made in the seasons, methods and recordings. We also have to weigh the factor of how valuable is accuracy in managing a species? If not then we can just keep doing what we are doing. We also have to remember that lack of accuracy and or concern for accuracy can easily swing into other species, seasons and goals etc.

Bryce

The state believes they are north of 90% adherence to the registration requirement. Surveys and enforcement checks are how they feel like they have a good handle on it. That said, they didn't have any numbers on in person registration and adherence to that type of registration. That was in the deer hunting presentation to the NRB today. Tomorrow the board looks at possible changes. Might be a good meeting to listen to.

Same here and I know a lot of hunters.

If a hunter truly cares about hunting and wildlife management, they'll report their kills.

For those that want to listen to the NRB meeting this morning. They will be talking deer. https://dnrmedia.wi.gov/main/Play/3...talog=9da0bb432fd448a69d86756192a62f1721

For those that didn't watch, it sounds like there are going to be quite a few questions on the Conservation Congress spring questionnaire relating to deer. When you include department, NRB, and CC advisory questions, it includes everything from shortening Xbow season, extending rifle season to 16 days, moving rifle season earlier, possible simplification changes to antlerless tags and a few others. It will be interesting to see how the input breaks down this spring.

Ah yes . . . the ol' simplification changes. Can't wait to see how my life will become even more . . simplified.

Maybe this is the year we simplify the colony trap regs?? Hmmmm . . .

We have more deer than 30 years ago. We have more seasons and more methods to harvest and very easy and liberal opportunities to register or not register and no back tags etc. Yet we have fewer hunters. I believe that if we keep catering to those of us that have self centered reasons for seasons, methods and easy registration we actually are taking a lot away from the experience of the hunt from my perspective. Based on the harvest statistics we have done a very good job in managing the deer herd on our 2-3 million acres of public land and in some places more deer would be appropriate. Now on the other 30 plus million acres of privately owned land we can not in all due respect state that we are even close to managing those populations and we need to address the fact that as long as we choose to ignore or berate those that are working to create solid science to help manage those populations we never will. As hunter numbers decline there may well be some real significant ADC opportunities to make money harvesting deer at the expense of local, state and federal tax payers. Another form of subsidy we probably could avoid but are unwilling to do the needed work to get that done.

Bryce

If they extended the rifle season and took the week before rifle season away and Made the rifle
Season during the rut like stated in the article I read I wound sell my land and just hunt in another state.
I truly believe the number of hunters is declining because the hunting is so bad in so many areas.
Too many predators too many tags not enough deer on the public lands

So, take the prime rut away from crossbow hunters. That will encourage more hunters to buy a license, huh? Thought we did away with tags? Simplification means tagging a crossbow shot deer killed during gun deer season with a gun tag? What??



Doing away with management zones will simplify regulations?? Can't make this stuff up. Really???



Oh, I don't think that will reenergize the gun season.

What we have here is a huge cluster#@$& in the making. Alienating all of the young, old and new hunters who have found success with the crossbow will only result in fewer licenses sold in the future.

Just tell me when I've got to wear blaze orange while trapping so I don't get shot whilst bent over checking a mink set in the waybacks.

I never understood why anyone would try to do this. In the business world, you embrace what the market wants. IMO, there are a few key trends. The current hunting public is getting older and folks gravitate towards bow hunting. So why not embrace it.

Create every incentive possible to get those aging gun hunters to pick up bow hunting. It has the ability to retain them as a long as possible. Better weather, less pressured deer, and way more places to go. The use of crossbows has the ability to attract new folks that would not have picked up bow hunting before, but not when the season is under attack every year.

Everyone is concerned about the shift in harvest of bucks from the gun season to bow season. Embrace it. Folks had no problem embracing the shift in harvest of bobcats from trapping to hunting. Folks vote with their dollars. The longer we fight this shift the more folks we force to walk away.

Any one have thoughts on how it could be made better?

I'd be willing to bet the Wisconsin Bowhunters Association is behind the growing restrictions on crossbows. To the diehards, crossbows aren't bows.

muskrat and tlguy got this right

With my shoulders being the way they are, the crossbow IS my only bow of choice. Take hunting the rut away and I'm done bowhunting. Done bowhunting and I'm done buying a Patron's license. I'm sure I'm not alone in that mindset.

It was NRB member Kaz that has pushed for Xbow restrictions and this is his latest push. WI Bow Hunters Association is right there with him. Like said previously let a good thing stay. Xbows have brought so many new participants in to the hunting community but that seems lost in the discussion.

Dave

WE the Xbow hunters killed more bucks then the other archery group and they don't like it. The WI bow hunters think those bucks belong to them..
In just about 100% of the time your doctor will give you a pass so you will be able to use the Xbow no matter what the dick headed bow hunters say.

I use a traditional compound bow and I plan to switch to a crossbow when that time arrives. Archery Season should be whatever method you desire, Long Bow, Recurve, Compound, or Crossbow.

And we thing Washington is where all the dirty politics is played! Are we ignorant or apathetic? We call the ARs and the antis morons and ignorant and brainwashed and lets just say they are all those. How do we want to classify deliberate ways to take away rights when done by so called fellow outdoors persons? The lesson we should all learn here is that those with political motivations strive to get into those positions and they can and do impact all of us, it just matters I guess which egotistical demagogue we want to follow.

Bryce

we in WI no longer need a "pass" from the doctor now kids , women , over 65 and everyone else can just purchase a crossbow license or for a few dollars upgrade the standard archery license.

DNR says Deer need shot , sets numbers , we should hunt till we reach the numbers or get to spring.

bow hunters have lobbied for longer and longer season , the don't like extra gun season , they don't like xbow

the fact of the matter is they hang out looking for perfect antlers far to much and they need to put up or shut up on the numbers.

it is not effective to heard management to give 4 months to a method of harvest not putting up numbers.

I think a private lands only antler-less season Oct 15 to the 31 muzzle loader or just run Muzzle loader season till January 5, something to encourage numbers in high population areas. it does nothing if you give away unlimited free tags and people have one or two weeks of bad weather post rut to use them.

It isn’t a matter of good or bad Weather or what season you put in place. We the private land owners around here
Will not use the Ridiculous amount of tags they give out to dwindle our deer herd away any farther. Everyone obviously has different opinions on population and how the season should be structured.
I personally would love to see wi have the rifle season the same time as Iowa but for 9 days straight after
The rut has dwindled down. But I would also like to see apr’s and a limited season on crossguns for people who aren’t disabled or over 65 and I would like to see registration back in person with attached tags.

But If The WBA shortens the Xbow season then you will still be able to hunt during the regular archery season If your 65 or have a doctors pass. They can't take that away from you.

What's a crossgun?

Yes 65 or older or disabled would have a regular archery license
Lol it has a scope and a trigger it’s a gun

Ah . . . elitist mentality.

So, a trigger release is technically not a trigger? Or it is a trigger? Then all of the bowhunters using trigger releases are actually using guns?

And if it had a peep sight instead of a scope then it would not be a gun? Or if a fella put a scope on a bow then it would become a gun?

Interesting.

Lol you got it! I just think a able bodied person sitting in a box blind with a a crossgun shouldn’t be allowed
The same seasons as a archery hunter. Same reason to have a shorter and separate rifle season.

it seems they are discussing a 19 day gun season as an option.


https://www.wpr.org/natural-resourc...Rntv-DWbYM_8M52gENiHDaJhE7rjE7kxiz6uzIYE

X2

I think muzzle loader season should run parallel archery cross bow and we call the whole thing primitive. I think in one season we would reach harvest goals

if your on the ground you should wear an all orange hat or 50% blaze orange vest minimum in a stand a 144sq inches of orange on any public land.

So my nine year old needs to be limited to October and late season archery because she uses a crossbow? I get folks infatuation with the shift in harvest but....

Shortening the crossbow season will have no impact on stopping the shift in harvest from gun to bow IMO. Take a look at the chart on page 8. https://dnr.wi.gov/topic/Hunt/documents/WeaponUseReport.pdf

This shift in harvest started long before xbows and it really didn't change the trajectory once legalized. The only real shot it has to be successful is if continues to drive folks away from hunting, but then again, is it really successful? We just robbed Peter to pay Paul so compound bow hunters better be ready to give up some of their season too.

Take a look at page 9. Only 10,000 hunters bag two bucks a year. So if the vast majority only shoot one or less bucks a year, why wouldn't more folks shift to bow hunting since the season is longer, weather is nicer, and deer are moving more naturally. Compound bows have made huge strides and becoming proficient is pretty easy for folks that have the time and physical body strength. Plus, bow hunting plays well to gun hunters new found love of a sedentary lifestyle.

Hunters need to quit arguing amongst themselves about things like this because there’s large amount of libtards in Madison and Milwaukee that would love to see a division in the hunting ranks. I’m referring to the choice of weapon during bow season. And btw. Me and my kids use long bow and recurves most of the time

APR's stink and we don't need them here in WI. We are one of the better big hunting states and the history books prove it.

I don't eat antlers.

They do in China- might help your shoulder and other stuff.

X2

Most compounds have cross hair sights and release trigger so they are a gun as well.

w

Hmmm . . . haven't considered that. Thanks.

You eat enough antler and about late September if you find yourself rubbing your head on door jams and other places you will know why! lol

Bryce

https://madison.com/wsj/news/local/...d2b2ddf-5bf0-5e0d-860f-3707adf12d85.html

I found it interesting that Greg Kazmierski the DNR Board member suggesting some of these changes owns an archery shop in Delafield, WI. Yes, Buck Rub Archery sells compound bows but the mainstay of their offerings are premium vertical bow brands. All things being equal, there is way more revenue and margin from selling a vertical bow compared to a compound - think about the value add of accessories and set-up alone. Are these proposed changes good for an environment of declining license sales and declining harvest reports or good for his business?

I tend to think it is more productive to attack ideas and leave the people out of it.

Personally, I may not like his ideas, but I think Kaz's heart is in the right place. He sees the shift in harvest from gun to bow. He recognizes that ~600K buy a gun license and ~300K buy archery. If the 600K start to think they don't have a chance at a buck because the 300K already harvested 40+% of the antlered bucks before they can enter the woods, that could lead to a pretty big revenue gap in short order. As that percentage continues to climb, the sediment will grow so what's your solution?

I would tend to agree on attacking the ideas- I also like to understand WIIFM... What's in it for me? That often drives the wrong behavior when you're looking a outcomes that can be self serving.
In my opinion, there are two paradigm shifts happening at the same time. Crossbow sales are up and the omnichannel shopping experience has gained a lot of traction. Using my vertical bow as an example, Mathews, not sold at retail, it’s a destination purchase from a dealer (not available at a big box retailer) and dealers must be a certain distance from one another to qualify. I go to an archery shop to make the purchase because set-up is also a key consideration when buying a vertical bow. I probably will add the following: peep, nocking loop, drop away rest, sight and maybe quiver, release and stabilizer. My bow is now the price of a Browning A Bolt. Tomorrow, I decide to buy a compound, Amazon becomes my first consideration because set-up is not a priority, I can buy a 10pt or Barnett with a bundle at a lower cost and sighting in, well within anyone’s skill set- is the only thing I need to do.
If I owned an archery shop that specializes in vertical bows and service after the sale- I’m now selling buggy whips.

Of course none of us are greedy, it's only the other fellow that is greedy -- Milton Freedman. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWsx1X8PV_A

While some good points, I tend to think that stuff is all noise. It doesn't get us any closer to understanding if there truly is a problem and if so, what needs to be done.

Look at the true concern that I highlighted above and I am truly curious to get your take.

I will add one more piece that may or may not be relevant. Take turkey hunting. The season framework was changed and divided the season into separate parts to disperse hunters. Today, thousands of available tags for later season go unpurchased. Is it because folks don't think it is worth their time to go out....all the birds have been harvested already or some other reason? What if gun hunters start following the turkey hunters lead and quit buying the later season tags? How much revenue will be lost?

How does one grow sediment?

The assumption is most of the 600K gun hunters deer hunt primarily to shoot a buck. And the reason they don't see bucks during gun deer season is because the archers (and crossgunners for NE Wildlife) have already harvested 40+-% of them. Therefore, the DNR needs to limit the number of bucks shot by archers (and crossgunners for NE Wildlife) prior to gun deer season so the 600K will have something to shoot at.

But the archers who use crossbows (and crossguns for NE Wildlife) are more successful than archers who use inferior weapons but are still classified as bows (except for bowguns for those using a bow with a trigger release for NE Wildlife). Therefore, we must restrict the use of crossbows (and crossguns for NE Wildlife) during the prime time of the rut in November so not as many bucks will be killed so the 600K gun deer hunters will believe they will see more bucks in the woods come gun deer season.

Dang . . . pure genius! Now it all makes sense.

Don't you think that the majority of gun hunters also hunt with either a bow or a cross bow. Every one I know does.

Seeing how it’s about cash run the gun season during the rut. Really knock em off. Many happy hunters. Happy hunters recruit.

It would be cool to see the woods quiet before thanksgiving.

It might be an assumption, but does it have merit? Look at participation in antlerless only seasons. Are folks voting with their time?

Aw heck, just open November to weapon of choice and be done with it. Everybody will be happy and nobody will be happy. Just let me know when I've got to wear blaze orange (blaze pink for the Beav) whilst trapping.

I would have to check Gary, but I think it was between half and a third buy both licenses. But this is a big factor. Folks don't buy both unless they take up bow hunting at some point. Surprisingly, even with those folks buying two license, very few actually harvest two bucks a year (~10K)

It's hard for me to quantify the significant advantage that a crossbow has over a vertical bow, most crossbow hunters I know are good deer hunters- that's the true advantage.
Here's a quick read.
https://www.bowhunting.com/bowhunt101/crossbow-vs-vertical-bow/

Right now state statue dictates the gun season start the Saturday before Thanksgiving. Doesn't mean it isn't possible, just adds another level of difficulty to accomplish.

You also bring up a good point about other user groups. We saw that a little last year with snowmobilers and later deer hunts. Trappers have been having access issues until the festivities are over as well.

I have to agree with that statement.

There is no easy solution, and it seems like everyone will lose and nobody will win.

I love fall turkey hunting, and hate having to wear blaze orange while doing it.

I like the idea posted earlier about a primitive weapons season from sept thru december, bow and muzzleloader, no blaze required. The a regular 9 day with blaze orange, or pink, whatever.

I bow hunt and gun hunt, long bow, flintlock and 30-30 or scoped 06. I want to shoot meat. Antlers don't matter either way. First deer that offers me an ethical shot gets killed. Don't preach to me about trophy management.

What do we want the deer seasons in WI to accomplish?

Do we want the harvest of deer to be keyed mostly to manage the herd size and numbers and provide as good of sporting opportunities that we can?

Or do we want the hunt to be heavily favored for the sport of hunting and let deer herd management fall by the wayside?

In the past say 50 years ago the seasons we had seemed to accomplish quite well both of those and over the last decades we have moved away from both and we have significant lack of trust in the science and we are finding that politics causes the sporting aspect of the hunt and harvest to be tainted as well.
We read hundreds of posts on this forum and others about how the youth are being coddled to and there are awards for participation and also we can't have failure because it will ruin the youth's self-esteem. Now let us move that to the adult arena when it comes to harvesting deer. We now have adults that feel they are entitled to shoot a buck because the buy a license and there should be enough deer to see so I can choose which one to harvest.
We wonder where this self-centered and entitlement in our youth comes from? We don't need to look far at all.

It seems most are concerned about hunting the intense rut. Why do we have all those other weeks of seasons if the rut is the major point for all the hunters? We could make the rut the season by say having the season the first Saturday of November until the end of the 3rd weekend with bow hunters going first for the first week one year, xbows first week another and gun hunters first the 3rd etc. Maybe then we would have managed antlerless seasons before and after depending upon the county desires for population controls. This done tongue in cheek but to me this whole issue shows a level of immaturity that does not bode well for hunting and hunters down the road. The one advantage of this is that it would make a huge number of hunters involved in all three methods depending upon the season.

Bryce

bblwi, to me it is about sound population management and the opportunity to kill a deer. Antlers or not, I am hunting to eat.

I agree that far too many think they have the right to shoot the big one. And that they are entitled to it. Some areas just don't have big antlers. Deer don't care about property lines.

Used to be we would be happy to see a guy shoot any kind of deer. Never worried about points, widths, G-2 lengths, etc.

The members of WBA what the rut all to themselves and that's It In a nut shell. They don't care about deer management unless It manages them to hunt the rut.

If I lay down my money to hunt deer then no special interest group should be able to tell me when I can hunt. This Isn't merry old England and the kings deer. WBA

Too much special interest group involvement in WI wildlife management. If it's not the WBA, it's the WI Bear Hunters Association.

There is something about this idea that keeps drawing me to it, but I keep coming back to the idea that it would actually make the issue worse, not better if we look at the concern they are trying to solve. It would increase buck harvest before the gun hunters get a crack at them.

That said, there is another question about a lottery for limited tag items as a way to increase revenue for the department. Like they do for elk. Legislators have not been keen on increasing fees, but they have started to show a willingness to look at lotteries. I wonder if they did a lottery for this type of tag, what the interest would be?

There is something about this idea that keeps drawing me to it, but I keep coming back to the idea that it would actually make the issue worse, not better if we look at the concern they are trying to solve. It would increase buck harvest before the gun hunters get a crack at them.

[/quote]


If they want to shoot a buck that bad, get a muzzleloader or take up bowhunting.

Not saying I don't agree with you, but now comes the million dollar question...are you going to allow the use of in-lines and scopes in this primitive hunt?

And here I though all the nuts lived in MN.

It's a deer, kill them.

Finally a nonresident has joined the discussion or should I say, enough joined that I noticed their presence. I did see there is a question about raising the license cost for nonresidents on deer and bear as well. Lots of possible changes that go outside season length.

That one falls under WCC advisory question. That is where you see the questions about badger season, extending bobcat season, and a host of other topics.
https://p.widencdn.net/d0xgfq/2020-01-4D-Congress-Matters-2020-spring-hearing-advisory-questions

if taking of deer is what is important , I am only looking for a safe way to do it in a longer season. I think we got away from the iron sights only during ml season because then you have all the people who have vision issues who have to get an exception. just like all the people who had bad shoulders bad back ect.. that would have to get a xbow exception that when your DR made you go through a Physical Therapist and your insurance would not cover it your dropping hundreds on BS state bureaucracy.
you could make muzzle loader antler-less only start it oct 1 and run it for the month so you get the heard management your wanting but not uspet the vertical bow folks so much they will likely raise a fuss no matter what.

I say muzzle loader but could as easily be single shot rifle , the point is take deer , control heard size, in the locations that need it and use the resources that pay you for the privilege of shooting deer.

I don't get all this "this tool is too good concern" . you want heard management or not? offer a way through extended season and tags to get the management you want.where you want it .

we have an over abundance of a species in specific areas in the state. We have a resource of people who would be willing to harvest them for free. we need to get the people resource in touch with the landowners and give them time to harvest the numbers that make for better herd management.

Are they allowing to vote online this year in case you cannot make the meeting?

Yes

Until they remove politics and people that know nothing about hunting from setting our rules, things won't get better.

On line voting Is going to screw us.

From what I heard when the allowed it, the online votes didn't hold much water.

So they are going to throw out the on line votes. If that happens that gives the antis more ammunition.

No to your first option, its a selfish option, whats good for hunters and screw the rest of the citizens of the state.
I think your 2nd option assumes that "sport of hunting" and herd management are not compatible.

The answer should be what we want the deer seasons to accomplish is to first keep the herd in check so that the herd is not doing damage to the environment. When the deer herd is such that various native plants are are completely eliminated or unable to complete their life cycles due to deer over browse then the herd is too big and more deer need to be thinned. I'm not even going to go into AG industry and Ins. industries, the effect of herd size greatly effects these industries and then indirectly effects every consumer in the state.
This is sound management of natural resources. Managing for larger herds at the expense of other plants, animals and other interests is a poor management model.

I'm on another forum that's mostly WI guys. Lots are hardcore and hunt a lot and put in the hours. Lots are saying this last year was really bad with low deer sightings. Lots of mobile guys that don't hunt the same 40 or 80 every weekend. These are the guys who's opinions matter to me. They know what's out there. No agenda to push like the dnr. It's been an ongoing slaughter for years. I really wish we'd go back to a format like before all the t zones. Archery season. 9 day gun season. Late archery. No more special antlerless hunts, no more youth hunts. Get back to tradition. Once that framework is back in place, figure where crossbows and muzzleloaders fit in.

My statements were questions and yes I do believe that decades ago we were closer to being better at herd management and offering a good hunting experience for most hunters. What has happened since that time is we have tried to offer many more options for specific groups and also we have developed huge "turf" wars as regards to who should have access and when to the deer herd. Yes we can offer herd management and offer good opportunities for hunters but it will not be with similar approaches and science that was used in the past. It will take a long time to sort through as to how to better manage our deer herd with all the variables we have today and the vast majority of those being human and thus political in nature. Habitats over time are changing and especially the northern 3rd of the state with the old growth forest returning to much of the public and private forest areas of the north. We could offer some really different hunting options for these northern areas where the herd is smaller, densities less etc.
Many believe that the DNR wants to slaughter all the deer and if you hunt on public ground that may well be what one sees. I would also believe that on the majority of private land that the deer herd is significantly under harvested on purpose to maintain higher densities and thus one of the major ways to keep numbers lower is to shoot as many as possible in areas where access is allowable and easier. j

For those that want to see and shoot more deer there are areas where that is easily possible. So if time and money are not issues to shooting more deer the opportunities are available if one chooses to search them out.

Bryce

For many years, the department kept number artificially high. They limited harvest to keep the quality of experience high. Deer were no different than bears, otter, etc. Then there came a time when folks started to realize there was costs associated with doing so they over corrected IMO. The pendulum continues to swing.

Folks not seeing deer should go hunt Winnebago county. There is enough public you should be able to find some deer if you are willing to work for them. Sure you might bump into folks from time to time, but a guy can get away from folks if you work at it or hunt after opening weekend. The county has great cell coverage so you can register the deer before you even start dragging. Plus, the county has yet to have a positive CWD deer.

IMO that is the great thing about CDACs. They don't have to be a one size fits all approach. Folks locally can make that decision and it doesn't have to be a dictatorship. Folks are forced to work together instead of complaining and expecting someone else to fix the problem or create a different one for someone else.

All these deer questions should benefit trappers. Fellow sportsmen now have a bigger interest to participate. Very few questions had a different result when you look at online versus in person. In person likely carries more weight as they are the folks that vote for delegates. Delegates need to represent those that elect them. Online won't screw us. Folks not showing up to elect delegates that will represent those that participate in the process will screw us IMO.

So do you think that with the option to vote on line will keep more sportsmen at home. In Dane county most of the time the antis out number the sportsmen. And they are briefed ahead of time on how to vote.

I don't. I think the people that go to the spring meetings will always go for the most part.

I do. Sportsman participation is pathetic at best. The couch calls, and with smart phone in hand one can vote and watch TV at the same time.

S&R, you may be correct, but what is the average age of the dedicated participants? They are a dying breed.

I know at least 20 trappers from my county and NONE of them have ever been to a CC meeting.

the average age in Green is definitely grey hair. there are a few of us younger than retirement age.

It will keep some home and especially if they think there is going to be a bunch of like minded folks there. That goes both ways. They tend to be folks that have listened to all sides and have made up there mind.

That said, here is a stat for you. Only 25% of deer hunters are aware that they have a county deer advisory council that sets population objectives, season framework, and permit levels. They have been in existence for six years.

Some folks are mad about poor attendance of CDAC meetings but there is really no benefit to attend IMO. They can get all the info online. I have gone so far to tell folks that. What I want is there input and I want it as easy as possible for them to do it. We have doubled our input every year that I have been on the council but we only have a couple folks attend in person.

Now the Conservation Congress has been around for forever, but I bet there are still folks hearing about the spring hearings for the first time. With all the publicity they are getting, even more folks will have an interest in attending their first meeting with these big topic items on the ballot. I wouldn't believe it but I see it on the FB page for the Congress. Counties that are willing to make the outreach should see some nice gains this year.

But the most important thing happening at the spring hearing is elections. With similar questions, there is a good chance those delegates will have to make a decision on how to interpret the results. Those delegates also will play a role in determine what is on the ballot in the future. Plus folks that attend can also introduce resolutions and vote on those resolutions submitted. By giving up one night a year, folks in attendance can ensure they elect someone that will work harder to make their lives easier.

The Patricia Randolph's of the world actually rent buses and bring In their antis to the Dane county CC

She used to be a delegate and even sat on the fur harvest committee at one time. She lacked influence so essentially the county wasted a delegate. But it speaks to their efforts to recruit. Frankly, we as sportsmen don't do enough of it and I know I am guilty of it.

Tomorrow I am going to do a podcast on all these advisory questions and how folks can participate. We will be taking questions on the fly so look up the TRS live podcast if you have an interest.

agree muskrat! everyone says its not the same or not fair. my response has always been its just an upgrade just like the compound bow most hunters used along with the tree stands, blinds trail cams etc. ive never personally met a bow hunter that hunts on the ground or horseback with an old recurvew. IMO those are the only people that have the grounds to gripe about about new technology

exactly! ive heard stories since i was a kid of the "camp meat" deer

i dont see how lengthening the season will help much. hunting has changed alot since i was a kid. now everyone is after that 200" buck. there is a growing number of people that hunt more for horns than meat. hunters no longer get in the woods and move the deer around. land owners dont allow access to the avg hunter anymore because one or two guys will pay big money to have large parcels of land to themselves. When i was younger large groups would hunt many different farms and hunt for meat and we would see a hundred plus deer every year. now we are lucky to see a dozen- and this is not a deer population issue!

[/quote]
agree muskrat! everyone says its not the same or not fair. my response has always been its just an upgrade just like the compound bow most hunters used along with the tree stands, blinds trail cams etc. ive never personally met a bow hunter that hunts on the ground or horseback with an old recurvew. IMO those are the only people that have the grounds to gripe about about new technology[/quote]

If we ever get the chance to meet, you'll see someone who hunts with a handmade wooden (no fiberglass) longbow (no recurves) using wooden arrows with 2 blade broadheads who hunts from ground blinds.

I may gripe privatley about the new technology, but not when discussing hunting in a public setting.

I guess it depends on what you are looking to accomplish. If the firearm season is moved up and they put a quiet period in, I think it would transfer some of the archery harvest to gun harvest. Those last couple of weeks in archery are big weeks for buck kill and ensuring you avoid the late gun hunts (like this year) would significantly increase the gun harvest. I included a link to the powerpoint deck that shows the impact of having a later vs earlier season and the average difference is like 13% (slide 15). https://p.widencdn.net/4ydoii/00-2020-01-Tuesday-3A-PP-re-2019-NRB-Deer-Season-Report-FINAL

Deer will be more likely on their feet and you have more that survived archery season. Keeping the gun hunt closer to the rut will likely help generate a little more interest if that was what you are trying to accomplish.

All that said, I am not sure that just extending the gun season to 19 days without moving it up helps on either front. You make a lot of good points on how folks hunting styles have changed over time.

I think if you move the gun deer season from thanksgiving week it will hurt the season.

I am thinking making it longer so we have more snow and the deer start to heard up. then harvest doe in January a lot of swamp gets much more accessible when it is frozen and snow covered , snow shoeing across a frozen swamp in minutes making little noise vs an hour in waders making all kinds of noise.

I know the snowmobiles have complained about late deer seasons because they feel "unsafe" in the woods with hunters , I have news for them we can hear them coming a mile out snowmobiles don't look or sound like deer.

I suppose it could cause conflict between hunter and trappers who often like to wait till gun deer is over.

to ease snowmobile and possibly trapper tensions I was thinking a long late archery & muzzle loader season.

my interest is harvesting the deer that the biologists say need to be harvested to keep a healthy heard , they are supposed to be basing their numbers on science if you want a way to take more deer more days and opportunity seems logical to me you can always close a county early if a quota is reached.

The problem snowmobilers have with late seasons has nothing to do with getting shot. Most if not all trails run across private land at some point or another, and private landowners dont want sleds on their land while they're hunting. So it's the landowners, not the snowmobilers, that push the seasons back.

I've read most of these posts, I don't think doubling the season would be good. Too many hunters. What if we did a early short gun season to coincide with the rut? Four or five days? But allow archery AS well if we take away we are going backwards we are trying to have more opportunities for EVERYONE!

I'd like to know where these proposals came from, and why these were selected. Let's see the guys pulling the puppet strings.

Do you think the WBA would go along with that? They don't want the Xbow hunters killing their bucks do you think they would put up with gun hunters In the woods during the rut?

Best way to harvest more deer is go to earn a buck, can't shoot a buck until you shoot a doe.
That would go for all hunters.
I know most don't like it but its the best way to cut the heard numbers.
The worst case would be the same number of bucks and does shot but in reality you'd see more does shot than bucks. I'd guess about 3 does to every 2 bucks.
This also would increase the percent of bucks in the herd and I'd also suspect that the quality of bucks would increase.

Everyone I talked to this year said there were no deer. Numbers were way down. So why do we have to kill more deer?

What do car/deer collision reports say about the size of the herd?

You never talked to me.

In my little area of the world there is lots of deer.

The general trend in the kill over the last 1/2 dozen decades is up. Up about 300% if I recall right.
All this while there is more property removed from hunting and fewer people hunting.
So lots more deer killed on in a smaller area.

I was recently at a conference on native plantings to attract wildlife to your property.
One problem that continually crops up is deer.
They will either eliminate or browse on certain native plants so heavily that the plants are no longer able to get to the point of producing seed.

White Oaks are a good example. Oaks suffer from too dense of forests and deer.
For White Oaks to survive the deer herd will need to be thinned drastically.

If I don't protect the Oaks on my property the deer will eat EVERYONE of them.

https://dnr.wi.gov/wideermetrics/DeerStats.aspx?R=Collision

Here you go Muskrat. Only allows you to go back 2007, but you can look up by county if you want.

we have numbers from a few years of earn a buck . did it work? do the numbers show it ?

it might have caused me to take fewer deer , if I saw a buck opening morning at 0700 I couldn't shoot it till I had earned my doe.

my only reservation on shooting a deer besides safety or legality of the shot is if it is worth my time to cut up. I only have so many deer skin and cut in me a day if it takes 90% of the energy and 95% if the time to get 25% of the meat is it worth it ?

if you gave guys 2 weeks in October for antler-less only hunt so that they have their buck earned before tradition gun 9 day opening morning I think you would get the most doe shot.

bow and antler-less can run together bow hunters can put on a touch of orange camo

I guess you guys don't understand the mind set of the WI bow hunter. They don't want you In the woods during the rut.

Thanks

I'd like to see 2018 and 2019 data. Might be interesting.

Well sure, there are areas with a large heard. Most of which is prime land with landowners that are selective and don't shoot the crap out of it. Also don't allow access. I used to hunt an area like that. But those areas are not everywhere. As a whole, we don't need to eradicate more deer.

If we have no real trust in the deer numbers and the herd size then all this talk about season times, lengths, methods, age groups and special season etc. makes no real sense at all. If you don't know where you are going any road you take will get you there.

Bryce

GEF2 in Madison

id agree moving gun season up to the rut could help, but you and i know the bow hunters would never let that happen. personally i wouldnt think its right either to screw up peoples bow hunting just to kill a few more deer

some moron sitting behind a desk most likely

i didnt see many deer either but im smart enough to know tgey are there, they are just got getting moved around. i know herd size can vary all over but my guess for most is they just arent moving

If you are talking about the badger season question, I guess you can blame me. Most trappers outside of the beav seemed to like the idea of a harvest on badgers so I did ask the fur harvest committee to take up the question. They agreed that we should ask the public. I believe 7 questions are from the Natural Resource Board and the rest (like the badger question) come from the Conservation Congress.

Beav , I think your being really kind , they don't want us in the woods at all , not as gun hunters and not a trappers.

Your probably right.

And as to the badger thing If you think the outrage was huge over the morning dove season wait till the badger thing comes up. This Issue will give the trapper a huge BLACK EYE. We shouldn't touch this with a ten foot pole.

MY buddy caught a badger this winter he turned It In I bought It for $25.00 from the DNR and know It's getting tanned. The person catching a badger can't buy It but they can posses It after the fact.

There are huge alligators in waiting in the quite still ponds so we should be careful where we dangle our foot in the water. Being realistic is almost always very smart as well. We need to follow the rules that we make. If we would not have greatly over harvested wolves in the regions where wolves were the most dense and easy to catch we may still be hunting and trapping them yet today. We blame liberal judges constantly and it was us that created the data to show we were not even intending to be responsible.

Bryce

Bryce, seriously, if we had harvested just 10% of what we did I truly believe it would have made no difference to the wolf worshippers.

someone should set up a Wis Friends of the Badger non profit that buys up the caught beavers. you could set up as a 501c3 give 2 half hour talks a year at trappers gatherings about what to do if they catch a badger and the group takes donations to buy the caught badger from the DNR at a flat rate of 25 dollars each , then tans them and uses them as educational tools. a trapper who catches one and then does a talk using it about his experience catching may purchase the tanned hide to continue his or her education efforts about badgers.

Dang GCP, I didn't know you were such a fart smella! That's one heck of an idea.

Every state around us allows trappers to harvest badgers. Their harvest data allows them to better understand their population. Let's compare with another furbearer that was wiped out in the state...fisher.

We didn't have a fisher season and the WTA worked to bring one back after the population recovered. Instead of wasting millions trying to figure out if we should put the fisher back on the endangered list when they started vacating their core habitat, our harvest data told us that the population was moving and doing quite well. In turn, we could spend that money trying to figure out why they were moving. The state has benefited greatly by having a season and the resulting harvest data generated by that season. The same would be true for badgers.

As far as wolves, I would argue we were doing very well in terms of being conservative in our harvest. It was the reason so many folks were screaming about the lack of harvest. We would pressure a zone or two and leave the others underutilized. This allowed us to really see how having a season would impact different population dynamics and it allowed us to refine our population tracking methods. More importantly, we didn't race back down to 250 wolves as the higher number allowed us to see how fast a mistake could be corrected.

Under your logic, that same judge would be correct to shut down our sturgeon spearing season. Just because sturgeon are not doing as well in all parts of the country as they are doing here on the Winnebago system, they could get added to the list and the harvest would cease. Actually, when you look at it through that lens, they actually have a stronger case than wolves. When a judge in a far away land thinks they can manage a resource better than the residents of the state, they are flat out wrong IMO and it hurts future efforts to bring back these species.

All that said, I am willing to have the conversation by having the question on the ballot. Frankly, too often we sit in our bubble and refuse to interact with the general public until something bad happens and we are forced to play defense. This question provides an opportunity to play offense and talk about the benefits that trappers provide in a positive light. Let's talk about how trappers have worked hard to bring back some of these species. Let's acknowledge our failures (marten), but also highlight our successes (fisher). IMO, the outcome of the question is not nearly as important as our willingness to start to talk about the positives the modern trapper has contributed to society.

Fisher Is a success? Well maybe It was at one time but not any more. Know you have to wait 2 or 3 years to get a tag when back In the day we could get 2 or 3 with no lottery.

Yes we can discuss the fact that overall our wolf harvest goals may be conservative, but in the regions or zones where there was a management decision to keep higher densities in those areas we harvested way over the goals and in the zones where there was hope of greatly reducing a less dense population we never came close to harvest goals. We can always argue that there should not have been such limits etc. etc. but when trying to establish long term population and management goals we did not need to feed data to judges that we were either not interested in doing so or incapable of doing so.

Bryce

Or both.

Wait time is a good thing in most cases when conservation is the goal. Holding things consistent, it means you are growing interest and increasing the value that the resource provides. It's what drives reinvestment back into the resource. Our upriver sturgeon spearing tag now takes 12+ years to draw. This significantly increase the value of that resource and ensures sustainability long term.

There is also another variable--season length. Good, bad, or indifferent, we have one of the longest seasons in the country for fisher. Even taking years to draw a tag, we had over 9000 folks looking to participate. MN allows their trappers to harvest two fisher, yet we harvest more total fisher in WI because we have more trappers participating in the harvest.

But if you don't like fisher, take otter. Another conservation success story tied to the trapper. We had over 17K folks apply to participate in otter trapping in the state. MN allows their trappers 4, but yet we are now outproducing them with folks averaging a tag a year. All this is happening with $20 otter. More folks participating in the harvest can be painful to the old timers, but it's a success for conservation long term IMO.

WON reports lowest kill since '93.

80% 0f otter are incidental to beaver trapping. At least they are now getting reported.

According to the trappers registering, less than 5% are currently reported as being incidentally caught. But with low prices that number is probably about right.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://dnr.wi.gov/topic/WildlifeHabitat/documents/reports/otterharv2.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwi6p9LBiarnAhUCGs0KHW6RBZYQFjABegQIDRAH&usg=AOvVaw1XUcnmm3qdGzQdCtnfoymn&cshid=1580344583573

So you believe that 95% of all otter are being targeted? I will be the first one to raise the BS flag.

Prices for Beaver almost ensure it. Lot less empty traps waiting for them so I bet the vast majority are targeting them. Almost every day on FB another trapper is successful. I targeted one and I helped four other guys target them. That said, I don't think the true number is that low. I also think that number will climb the next time prices rise for Beaver.

I enjoy reading Pat Durkin when he gets a little sassy. https://www.patrickdurkinoutdoors.c...s-witchcraft-on-wisconsin-s-deer-program

Two otter that were targeted in Manitowoc County where beaver are few and far between.

Dave

I have to agree that today more otter are captured on purpose. Beaver trapping is too much work and we rely on WS to handle it. Otter are a trophy an fur trapping has been reduced to a “sport of kings”. God help us

Couple things, point number one and fisher MN vs. Wisconsin. You don't think it possible you take more fisher because your season is longer?

Point number two concerning the otter, we take less because we are better businessmen...........................and our season is shorter.

Point number three realistically WI probably has more otter statewide then beaver. By allowing 4 per trapper MN also reduces the trophy luster.

I'm still not buying It.

I agree with the Beav on this one. I believe the majority of otter are incidental to beaver trapping. Wisconsin has no shortage of otter, that's for sure. Regarding a badger harvest, Wisconsin needs a badger season just about as bad as we need a robin season! All it would accomplish is more weekend warrior trophy trappers.

Can you just imagine all the otter that got floated down the river when we had the otter protector working for the DNR.
Do the otter caught by WS show up In the overall totals?

Did you folks in Wisconsin really need a lottery for otter tags?I find it hard to believe you're that much different than us here in northern Michigan,we're able to take 3 per season and really,could take a lot more.Minnesota is on the other side of you and has a limit of 4,I believe.I can't see the necessity of a lottery,with preference points and all that nonsense just to trap an otter.

That has know been changed. No more otter lottery.

Officially?

Biologically, no, but it did have one decent side effect. Folks may or may not remember the thread otter logic. I never had a problem with the lottery, but it was the low quota that was misguided. We were chasing this 13,000 number.

That said, it does serve as a warning for all those fighting against the lottery. You better find a way to grow consistent participation or you risk losing it all. 17K folks paying to trap one animal (otter) in WI is not a small number. You would be naive to think adding their efforts didn't help reverse the course in WI. Their interest has helped WI run a 1000 folks through trappers ed per year. Even if they quit trapping after catching their trophy, they will be exposed to trapping in a positive light. We can't lose sight of our role as recruiter as we continue to open back up the bag limit.

But back to the resource and our role as conservationists. Does having more consistent effort and pressure from trappers have a benefit to the resource (otter)?

I thought this was a WI deer gun thread.

Kind of turned into a WI conservation theory thread.

To get back to deer hunting. As WIMarshRAT posted earlier, Pat Durkin nailed it with this article:

DNR Board Practices Witchcraft on Wisconsin's Deer Program
Updated: 21 hours ago

For roughly 57 years after its creation in 1967, the Department of Natural Resources took its orders from a seven-citizen governing board that boasted some of Wisconsin’s most impressive conservation minds.
Sigh.
No one watching the current DNR Board will confuse its leaders with their predecessors, such as Herb Behnke, John Lawton or Pete Helland. Chaos fairies now reign over the DNR, having replaced rational and scientific thought with illogical and absurd monkey-wrenching. Or maybe these folks are goofy witch doctors who like poking, prodding and pricking at Wisconsin’s deer-management programs while asking, “What happens if we stick it here?” Either way, Board Chair Frank Prehn and vice-chair Greg Kazmierski don’t know if they’re practicing voodoo or acupuncture, and they act like it’s splitting hairs to ask.

Too harsh? Call up Wisconsin Eye on the DNR’s website, and watch our befuddled Board in action on Jan. 21-22 as they discuss the 2019 deer season one day, and then their Six Silly Suggestions for “tweaking” future deer seasons the second day. You’ll see a Board so baffled by its own proposals that Prehn finally directed the Wisconsin Conservation Congress to straighten it out, even though it wasn’t the Congress’s idea in the first place. And through it all, Prehn and Kazmierski kept insisting the DNR simplify deer hunting rules because they’re too complex for the common deer hunter.
In case you missed it, let’s review the Board’s Six Silly Suggestions for improving Wisconsin deer hunting. We get to vote on these godsends April 13 at the annual statewide fish and wildlife hearings.
1. Extend the current nine-day gun season to 19 days. That would eliminate the 10-day muzzleloading season, but Prehn said it would increase gun-hunting opportunities.
2. Eliminate the firearms antlerless-only holiday deer season. Board vice-chair Greg Kazmierski said killing this season would “simplify” our deer season framework and make hunting seasons more consistent each year.
3. Establish a two- or five-day no hunting period before November’s gun-deer season, except for waterfowl hunting. Prehn said this “quiet time” would put some “buzz” back into the gun season’s opener, even if it came at the expense of small-game hunting and bowhunting.
4. Eliminate regional farmland and forest zones to “simplify and streamline” regulations, but continue to manage deer herds on a county-by-county basis, and maintain separate antlerless quotas for public and private lands.
5. Restrict the crossbow season to Oct. 1-31, and reopen it after the regular gun season.
6. Require anyone using crossbows, compound bows or other archery gear during November’s gun season to buy a firearms license.

Questions 5 and 6 spun the Board into such a vortex that it resembled the old Abbot and Costello “Who’s on first?” routine. Finally, an exasperated Board member, Bill Smith of Shell Lake, suggested the question include a box where people could answer “I’m confused.” Even though Wisconsin citizens can vote to reject this chaos in April, it’s irritating that we’re even talking about it. The problem, of course, is that Prehn and Kazmierski think that allowing crossbows for archery hunting since 2014 triggered Wisconsin’s declines in gun licenses and gun-season’s buck kills.

Kaz said Wisconsin is following the same path as Michigan, and claimed its gun-deer license sales plunged by 300,000 since crossbows were legalized for archery season in 2009. Sheesh. Once again Kaz is pulling numbers from his nose. Michigan’s resident gun-license sales fell from 623,158 in 2012 to roughly 550,000 in 2018. For total deer gun-license sales, Michigan dipped from 785,000 in 1998 to 621,000 in 2017. No matter the number—300,000, 164,000 or 73,000—it’s nonsense to claim crossbows caused the recent declines. And it’s wishful nonsense to think restricting their use to October and December will rejuvenate gun deer hunting. License sales started sliding across the eastern two-thirds of the United States in the 1990s, long before crossbows took off a decade ago.

Those aren’t the only numbers confusing Kaz and Prehn. Kazmierski said repeatedly that “42% of the bucks are gone before gun season opens.”
(Insert obnoxious buzzer sound here.)
Wrong. What Kaz meant to say, and Prehn meant to repeat, is that 42% of the recent buck kill occurred before gun season. Far more than 58% of the buck herd is still skulking about our woods, marshes and fields when gun season opens. If gun-hunters aren’t shooting their “fair share” of bucks, why don’t Kaz and Prehn suggest opening December’s four-day antlerless-only hunt to bucks, and open the holiday season to either-sex hunting? They could do that right now instead of trying to slash those hunting opportunities. Perhaps sensing the pending blowback, Prehn said the Board’s questions for the spring hearings aren’t a kneejerk reaction to November’s relatively low gun kill. More buck pellets. The problem is that Kaz last year commissioned a sociological study of crossbow use in Wisconsin, and didn’t like its findings, which we reported in November: Crossbows didn’t hurt gun-season participation. That’s why Kaz and Prehn crafted their Six Silly Questions, and they hope the spring hearings give them license to eliminate hunting opportunities they don’t like. Predictably, the Board didn’t post its questions for its Jan. 21-22 agenda until one day before it cut off registration for public testimony at its meeting. Therefore, only one person showed up to testify Jan. 22: Mike Brust, Kaz’s chief toady. Brust is also president of the Wisconsin Bowhunters Association. He predictably told the Board that crossbows make bowhunting too easy, and too much like gun-hunting. In other words, crossbows differ little from muzzleloaders. If Brust and Kaz believe such nonsense, we have a solution: In the spirit of compromise, let’s restrict crossbows to October and December, and extend the gun-deer season to 19 days. In exchange, let’s open October and December to muzzleloaders to boost the firearms buck kill.

Problem solved, right?
As the Board’s baffling discussions concluded Jan. 22, Prehn told DNR Secretary Preston Cole that he wants the agency to craft a 5-year plan to increase deer hunting’s value to Wisconsin, saying: “Be bold in your analytics and how you digest deer numbers. Tell us what needs fixing. We want the DNR to weigh in. You’re the experts. I charge you to simplify the license structure. The public is confused, we’re confused and you’re confused.”

Good for you, Mr. Prehn. You inadvertently poked an indisputable truth.

Now put your voodoo pins away.

Reading that was amusing, yet made my head hurt at the same time. No wonder deer hunting in WI is messed up.

As usual, Pat Durkin nails it on the head. Our natural resources are being managed by politics and the manipulations of special interest groups. What a cluster$%#@.

To me the lottery system for our 3 tagged species has not worked nearly as well as those who instituted would have hoped it would. During the early days of the system the gauntlet one ran through and the interrogation was demeaning and I am sure many just did not comply. As the pressures eased over time the reporting probably increased. To me say with otter I apply for tags mostly as a defense for getting one in a coon or rat set. I have released 5 otters from stoploss and or 1. 5 coils due to the fact I had no tag or in 3 cases I had a tag but the season opened two weeks later so season was not open while trapping rats early. I used to apply for fisher tags for the national forest and set traps for 2-4 days while deer hunting. I don't anymore because I hardly see fisher sign grouse hunting anymore. I have never applied for a bobcat tag. I have caught and released two many years ago, but waiitng 10-14 years for a tag does not make sense to me.
Also a lottery system does not in many cases put dedicated trappers with tags and thus in a way this increases the incidental aspect of the current system. I live in a county with no beaver so yes otter are targeted. Most times it is land owners with fish ponds looking for trappers with tags as otter clean them out frequently. To me otter are more of an inconvenience on the trap line than a trophy the way we are currently setup. If you catch one in the first two weeks it is an incidental or released if alive. After that they are $40 for a good one if they are not singed by early November so for me they are something to tolerate and accept not a trophy.

With the current system we have if beaver and coon come back to even average prices the otter catch will probably triple.

Bryce

Back to deer season...I've got an idea to simplify it and recruit new trappers all at the same time. Get back to earn a buck...turn in an incidental and earn a buck tag! Weapon of choice.

Bryce do you have any idea how many otter are sitting In the walk In DNR freezers. When NAFA was around they sold all those otter and there were 100s of them each year. Now they are just setting around waiting for the DNR red tape to get untangled. I was told there were around 200 and some put up otters and didn't include the ones that were coming In this trapping season.
As far as I can tell not one person on this site has ever spent any time putting up DNR otter at fur school. The numbers will blow your mind. And 90% of those otter are all incidental catches. A total waste of a resource.

Lotteries just hid the true population numbers. You guys have no Idea how many otter got wasted with the lottery system. If the lottery system was so good why Is it know a thing of the past . Well at least for otter.

Why else would the fur school have otters if not for incidentals or confiscations? That has nothing to do with the perce tage of total otters caught being incidentals.

According to the 2017-18 and 2018-19 otter harvest reports, there were a total of 117 incidental otters turned in those years. In those same years, there were approximately 2,900 otters taken with DNR issued permits.

Could be that trappers with tags are more likely to set a run with an otter tag in their pocket knowing they can keep both otter and beaver if caught. I know I've passed up on good beaver spots in years I didnt have an otter tag because I didnt want to catch an incidental and have to turn it in.

As you can see, I just follow other's lead. LOL

Glad someone is reading my links Alex.

https://dnrmedia.wi.gov/main/Play/3...LQfs0TVZa1bZsiS2AXZ8gPSoo3O-87lS74GnwtXc
Above is the link to the actual webcast of the board meeting again for those folks that missed it as we digressed into trophy trapping discussion. The discussion that Pat Durkin references starts about the 1 hr 24 min mark.

Bryce, every season for bobcat, except the late northern, is 4 or less to draw a bobcat tag now. https://dnr.wi.gov/topic/trap/draw.html Same lottery, just increase in quota.

Beav, you are right about the incidentals being a huge waste. But that was driven by the quota, not the lottery. Lottery controlled how we distributed tags. The quota determined how many otter we would allow folks to register. Folks wasted a whole lot of energy and IMO slowed the process down by working to move to bag limit from lottery after the quota was significantly increased. There is no difference if we were still on a lottery and every one received two tags or if we moved to two bag limit. Well, except the application fee.

I'll start another thread so as to keep this one about deer. It will be called WI regulations

EHD and/or Blue Tongue has killed X number of deer down here in the southwestern corner of Wisconsin. Nobody really knows how many nor has there been any effort that I'm aware of to collect data from folks who have come across dead deer. I've listened to at least four dozen hunters who have regularly hunted this area for many years and the majority state the following:. Didn't see as many deer as usual (many reasons possible) and they have either witnessed dead deer near water or know of farmers who have found dead deer.

Realizing stories like this are prone to exaggeration, one should exercise caution in forming conclusions. That being said, local newspaper accounts of dead deer tend to make one think there might be something to the story.

As I substitute teach up and down the Lower Wisconsin the stories of dead deer found by student hunters continue to reinforce the overall picture. It ain't pretty.

Time will tell of course. But already hunters are making plans to hunt elsewhere next season.

Muskrat, the department has kept a map. https://dnr.wi.gov/topic/wildlifehabitat/documents/ehd2019.pdf

That said, folks need to report those cases to their local DNR office. It goes back to the citizen science part of the discussion. The sooner they are reported, the better chance they can get samples. Very few samples were taken last year.

In their defense, the link that directs them to their local DNR office doesn't work. Whoops!

Link works, thanks. Looks to me like hunters are either unaware the department is collecting data or they don't want to bother with reporting their findings. Kickapoo River bottoms, IMO, appears to be the epicenter.

The river right now has been high enough it covered the parking lot of the boat landing here recently and we've got ice on top of that. Going into year #3 of sustained high water events. Beaver lodges are submerged and islands are underwater.

Muskrat, this link works for you? https://devlwww.dnr.state.wi.us/Contact/OfficeLocations.html

That's the link under the EHD section on the disease page that directs folks to their local DNR office. https://dnr.wi.gov/topic/wildlifehabitat/disease.html

The link to the local office doesn't work. Maybe a regional thing.

All that said, it will be interesting to see how the CDAC's down there react this spring. A couple are in decrease mode and a couple were in maintain mode. https://dnr.wi.gov/topic/hunt/documents/NRBApprovedobjectives.pdf

Of the new Deer Hunting regulations proposals I wonder which is the most concerning to most?
I myself am most concerned of the proposed shortening of the X Bow season and I am a vertical bow hunter .

nope, that one doesn't work

I agree on the shortening of the X Bow season and I am a X Bow shooter by choice. This one question is a volatile one for me because I believe it is only being pursued by a hand full of NRB members pushing their own agenda and not in the public or ecological best interest. The Wis Bow Hunter Association King's want all the bucks to themselves and when last years voting results on X bow overwhelming showed support to leave as is, now they are using the low gun buck harvest as the excuse to push their agenda.

As for the other questions, I have no problem with extending the gun season. I would really like to see muzzleloader open the 3rd Saturday of December and run for 2 weeks.

Dave

Yes shorten the X Bow season and then next it will be the long bows with the wooden arrow shafts wanting the compounds limited in days in the woods and then maybe the rim fire gun crowd will want some special treatment from the center fire hunters and on and on we go. Everyone is worried about the youth not hunting, maybe we should buy 200k of youth licenses for kids and take them away from us over 65 group as that seems to be where all this x bow crap got started anyway.

Bryce

I totally agree on the later start to the muzzle loader season. I always thought there should be a break after gun season and it should run concurrent with Christmas break.

Dave[/quote] I totally agree on the later start to the muzzle loader season. I always thought there should be a break after gun season and it should run concurrent with Christmas break.
[/quote]

That would be great. Where I hunt ML is private land, low pressure and the deer are still very skittish following 9 day gun deer. Give a week or two off before chasing them with ML.

Dave

Am I reading this right that you would want a shorter x bow season? If so could you explain why?

Interesting read on some of the benefits of the online registration.

https://thehuntingnews.com/how-checking-deer-in-online-is-helping-to-catch-poachers/

I don't buy it. The idea that online registration saves time for a warden investigating a possible poaching case doesn't really work like the article claims. Unless, in Ohio where this article talks about, you have to report the exact address where a deer is shot. Here in WI we only have to report county. You're telling me a warden is going to get a call about a shot heard after dark and pull up gamereg and look through all the deer reported harvested that day in that county? On opening weekend that could be thousands of deer depending on the county. And all the registrations wouldn't be in until 5pm the next day.

I'll admit it makes it easier for wardens to look things up, since the data is in the computers right away and entered by the hunter rather than written (sometimes illegibly) by a gas station employee on a deer stub and hand entered by a dnr employee weeks later. That makes it easier, but I don't think wardens are combing through all the registrations looking for irregularities.

Online registration is just peachy IF you have access to a cell phone tower at deer camp. If you don't, and you're back in the boonies for several days and shoot your deer opening day, you're now a criminal.

The bean counters have put the screws to traditional deer camps out of cell phone range.

This thread is full of opinions and no real solutions. Who's ever ox gets gored is always the onr who cries.

Ever hear if it ain't broke don't fix it? Tagging deer with a physical deer tag and registering by the end of deer season seemed to work for a long time. Perhaps a hybridization of calling it in or tagging it then registering later might be a solution.

But . . . Who's ever ox gets gored is always the onr who cries I know of four deer camps that would just love to have you show up opening day about 5:30 in the late afternoon and spout this dribble in front of them while they're trying to reach a cell phone tower to register their deer.

I strongly suggest you get ahold of this book and read it, cover to cover. Maybe about half through you'll discover why technology driven accounting systems don't always mesh with the way things are done outdoors.

Not what I was referring to.

Pardon my ignorance.

So your saying we should go back to tags and later registration?
Get In your boat and drive up or down river till you get cell service It can't be that big of a deal. And you could check a few traps when your out on the river,

Why do we need registration of a killed deer by 5:00 the next day?

Good point! I almost forgot one day and remembered at 4:55. I was almost a violator!

Chris

Anyone?

How long do you have to register a bobcat, fisher or otter?

Whoever thought that one up should be demoted to guarding the buffet table at a Rosie O'Donnell picnic.

I guess they feel that you could go home with your deer get It cut up and put away In 4 days and not register It.

Why did the chicken cross the RR tracks?

Adherence goes down the longer you wait to register and it does help the warden to have them called in a timely manner IMO.

I get it can suck for those that can't get their cell to work but not being able to call them in is a choice. I hunted some remote parts out west and I was able to find a way to connect with the outside world there.