Whats everyones thoughts on Groeny?

That's easy...........GROENY ROCKS !!!!!!

w

No one??

You guys suck.

What if I said the average Canadian could whup the average American in a trappin contest...?

Ha! Can always count on you walleyed!

Speaking of walleye, nailed a 30 incher a few days ago. Good way to wrap up the season!

In most parts of the country he's the only game In town.

my thoughts on groeny… well I took a mink and a skunk in plus 5 deer hides. got 2 pairs of gloves for 5 hides should have went to fleet farm got 25 gift card. then took squirrel tails says he don't take them no more but didn't return them . as I was loading my hides up he says 2 dollars mink 7 for skunk. I said ok. I get my gloves and check .. I leave and look at my check it 1 dollar mink 4 for skunk. now this is no way to run a buisness . when I see guy the next time he will hear about it. I think he screws everyone he can . a very dishonest man . can say I will no longer sell to him. its not the 4 bucks its the dishonest way he cheats u. watch your checks when u get them I bet money iam not the only one he does this too.

I'd say that President Donald Trump is the Alpha Male and Your President is Gay !!!!

w

Aaaaand you'd be correct ...

I thought he was one of those 2 spirited people.

He will buy as cheap as you let him. You need to mark all your fur so that you get your own fur back if you no sale them. The good thing is there is no commission but he pays less Bigger producer will recieve higher avgs. I pity those that have no other outlets

Convenience. Don't have a country buyer in reasonable driving distance any more.

No he isn't. You can ship to other fur companies. Zander fur, weibe , etc from wherever in the country you are. (So there!)

Plus several of the trapper sales in the west accept sent in fur.

Colorado sale the first part of February

Oregon sales (OTC) in March. www.otcfursales.com

So what's the cost of shipping 100 coon from Oregon WI to Timbuktu Idaho?

And getting it shipped back if you get lowballed on the price.

They buy high the first time or two through then the prices drop. Sometimes I wonder if they just pick people who talk a lot and pay big on one item so that person advertises. I used to sell to them every week back in the 90's but with the fur market dropping and no route like it used to be I ended up shipping my fur and found it did better that way.

Well, personally, I would send a sample lot in first to get an idea of what they were paying before sending a big lot.

If he was the last or only place left to sell fur, I'd throw my hides in the carcass hole and bury them. Sellers beware.

So #11, we'll put you down as a maybe. LOL

Haha! That made my day!

Sold to them for 7 years now haven't sold yet this year i sell all green fur so my averages will be around 3 bucks less than put up hides and that is right where the average prices from nafa and fha have been for those 7 years Previously for about 30 years I shipped to nafa or fha so I have an idea how my fur grade trends For the fur from my area gfws prices are right with anyone else
ill agree they don't want mink and skunks neither does anyone else
instead of leaving fur there that you feel their screwing you on take them back and sell elsewhere

Groney: Watcha got ?
Trapper: Ten coon.
Groney: Throw em up here.
Trapper: OK.
Groney: 4 at $20 4at $3 2 at $1
Trapper: I'll sell the 4 at $20 and take the others back sir.
Groney: NO,NO,NO - I buy em all or none !!!!
Trapper: ??? you priced the 4 at $20 why wont you buy those 4 and let me take back the others ?
Groney: I BUY THEM ALL OR NONE !!!
Trapper: So really all 10 coon are about the same and just selling the 4 at $20 is cutting your average right ?
Groney: Yeah- something like that -NEXT !!!

Spot On DanN.

Sold to them over the years Illinois had a father/son team that played games years ago looks like Illinois buyers are still a problem from the guys in Illinois posts, SD buyers have been great and sending it the same fur sold.well also.

I would like to hear Plueger's opinion.

I can give you Dave Pluegers opinion----
"Best thing since sliced bread"

There was just someone on here who claimed they got a similar offer to your hypothetical here, and he guy in the truck offered a little more for one of the lesser dollar coon. However I dont recall definitively that the trapper was able to sell the higher dollar coon and take back the lower dollar furs.

He said he took them back. Was thinking about tanning them I think.

Yep, that was me. He said I had 4 hides at 5 dollars. Said I'd take those back. He offered me 8 for the biggest of the 4 and I took the other 3 back. Sold him 5 of my 8 coon and 1 muskrat for 66.75.

It was the owner himself in the truck.

It appearing more and more from posts that after grading ones fur there is an offer, which may be their best offer or it may be negotiable. How much negotiation does one want to do or is willing to do is one question. That is the capitalistic business world we all say we want or like. The one real disadvantage with system is that your fur is now in their vehicle and in piles many of which one can not see and one has to ask for your fur back out of the window. That can be an intimidating aspect for some.
One of the things I personally can think about and I am in a position to do so if I choose to. Lets say I have fur that would be worth $1500 in average to average plus years but in today's market it is worth $600 at the GFW truck and maybe $475 from a local buyer. If I don't like the method that GFW uses or the feeling one gets from selling within that system I am losing 20% by selling locally which is really not much when you consider that I lost 60% from normal selling seasons. I have a tendency to place way too much value on what my fur is worth at times then the value I get from trapping.

Bryce

He wont be throwing any fur into his truck until he owns it if he buys around here.Lots of us dealt with fur buyers back in the day.It stays on the table until the deal is done.

Fur goes through a 2 foot x 2 foot windoe that is about shoulder height. Cannot see the counter atleast at 5'10" i cant see the counter.

That's pure BS if he deals like that.I definitely wouldn't sell under those circumstances.I can see some big Indian choking him out if he starts throwing his fur in the truck before he owns it.LOL.
Even the HBC/NWC buyers didn't deal like that.

I've never seen fur disappear in the truck. You pass it thru the window yes, but then its sorted into piles you can easily see, and stays there until the deal is done. My experience, anyway.

Groeny Rocks!! And remember: you heard it here first!!

Seems like this is beat to death every season . The bottom line is you should know about what your fur is worth and how much less than that you will take. Who cares how the buyer wants to pile stuff as long as the end figure meets what you had in mind. If it is not the ask for more or take your fur and move on. Are we trappers or little girls? Grow some hair guys.......

DannN nailed it precisely. It’s a sketchy deal but the check has not bounced one time. It is most disrespectful transaction I have ever had to deal with. I want a many to look me in the eye and shake my hand. You stand around and pay attention and you can smell it out too.

Anybody who has been in this business is bound to have a lot of people who are envious of his success. We all know more than a few who have come and gone. For a business to succeed they have to be both profitable and fair or the only choice. Never sold to Groeny which means he's never been the only choice.

Bring a step stool!

Fur stays on the counter till a deal is made then its tossed over a half wall into the back part of the truck. I never have much fur and I dont live in a great fur area. So far I have been good with his offers might of made more elsewhere but he stops 30 minutes away quick and easy.

You can back your truck right up to the window, have seen multiple guys do that.

Yeah the same 2x2 window that the guy b4 me was throwing up 10 half frozen bloody yotes in the round. Then I throw my fur up there and it soaks up all the filth.

I wouldn't want my fur back at that point!

This literally happened to me last yr. And no, he only bought about half of the guys bloody yotes "in the round". One was rubbed to heck and had the intestines hanging out.

The ol boy didnt skin one of them!

Seen a few guys back their truck right up to the window.

Guy ahead of us last year was selling green frozen beaver, and he had a lot. By a lot I mean he had them loaded in a box trailer. They were all frozen in plastic grocery bags, guess he was getting a set price per skin because they were just tossing them in the window and the truck guy was tossing them in the back of the truck. They never even took them out of the bags.

I wonder why GFW has never done much in South Dakota? Yeah, they've had 3-4 stops in the southeast area but never went much west or certainly not north. You would think if they are expanding into Canada, they would do much more of eastern SD. Maybe they are and I just haven't heard about it. They must be pretty tight with Dakota Snarelines, that's their main se SD stop or so it appears...

Based on some of your experiences you should sell to someone else. If that was everyone's experience do you think that'd still be in business?

I have sold to them in the past with no issues.

The question was asked and seems some don’t like the answers. The fact is get some over time and make up your own mind. When I call them and watch their video and do everything they ask and you see a guy come in the first time he sells to them with a load of burred non combed muddy crap rolled up 1/2 froze some green some freezer burnt and none of them cleaned up and he offers him $2 more per coon hide than yours and everyone else’s then I call him out. I have watched this same scenario over and over. Most folks don’t want to gropple over green fur. The AVERAGES are not much different in the quality of fur in a region and yes there are exceptions but you all that trap and average it out in the same region trapping the same critters know what the average fur is period.
What really kicks me in the nuts is you spend more time on the presentation that he talked about in last years video and then watch what happens and watch it more than once watch it 4 or 5 or 6 years then make up your own mind.

It's a two sided deal.
He offers a price.
You decide whether or not to take it.
It's really that simple.

I don't have any trouble seeing through the window and watching him put the furs in piles on the counter top. He always asks what you have before anything, my guess is so he can get them sorted into the right piles to keep the average where he wants it. I don't care as long as its where I want it too! I have haggled and gotten a higher price, I have taken his first offer and I have said no and hauled my stuff back home. No skin off his teeth or mine. It's business deal, he understands that and so should the seller.

I have also kept the lower end furs and sold only the higher dollar ones, more than once.




If it bothered you that bad, all you'd of had to do is ask and they would wipe it up.

Thaw out a load of green fur haul it a 100 miles or more an hour before dark arrive at the truck then turn down the price and take it all back and freeze it again or start putting up fur like crazy.
Better yet send it to an auction house where you cant get it back and it sits for a couple years and then bankruptcy is declared.
There has to be some integrity somewhere. If your going to put out on video to clean up and brush your fur and present it well then honor what you preach or stop lying about it. They know ahead what average they are giving
But if he can beat you out of another dollar cause you done went to all this trouble to get it there he knows most will sell anyway.

Never had a problem. I've seen folks present some pretty bad looking fur in the grease. Many are early coon. They often hand it back and I can't blame them. It's like some people don't read all of the fur forecasts for months prior to the season like WAIT UNTIL THEY ARE PRIME. Sure, they are averaged out but they are in business. If you put up fur with care you may even get a compliment.

You have way more options if you finish your fur.

Yep

Who is Colt Furs to GFW, an ally, a subsidiary? I guess I answered my own question about why GFW hasn't "expanded" into SD more. Its because they have these (this) guy do it. So the question is who is Colt Violet to GFW...?

Don't worry Hutchy, I'm sure Groeny will treat Canadians just like they were Americans. Maybe better, since NAFA is no longer one of your options.

If you bring green fur to GFW . . . .

1. Don't bring more than what you can refreeze if you don't care for what he offers. Either that, or prepare to put them up later that day. You're selling green fur. It's a risk.

2. Bring it semi frozen. Not in a bowling ball shape. Not all thawed out. Review his video and see how he wants it.

3. Bring your fur cleaned up. You should be able to take pride in what you throw on the counter. No burrs, no silt, no mud, combed out and looking good.

4. When you're in line, have your fur in something or on top of something to keep it clean and off the pavement. I can't count the number of sellers I've seen that threw their 'coon into a pile on the ground and kicked it along while they were in line. When I've arrived at a stop and there is already a line and more are coming, I throw a tarp down at the back of the line and pile my 'coon on top that while moving it forward as the line moves forward. If it's raining or snowing I cover the fur with a second tarp. Not to diss any one user group, but it's been my experience that the fellas who take the least care in presentation of their 'coon are 'coon hunters. Then they whine about the price they receive.

5. If you're dissatisfied with the offer, speak up. Make sure you understand why you have been offered what you've been offered. If you think you're a 'coon grader, then take colored zip ties and lock them through the eye of your better looking 'coon grouped by what you assume to be the same grade before you head to the stop. After he's finished sorting, you can then ask why a particular 'coon is in one pile versus another.

6. Skin your 'coon the way they want 'em skinned. Maybe GFW doesn't want a money cut on their 'coon.

7. Don't try and sneak a damaged 'coon through by freezing the 'coon folded so the knife cut is hidden. Murphy's Law states it will be found eventually. Better yet to 'fess up as you throw it on the counter and hopefully your honesty will be rewarded down the road.

8. Take advice given and thank the fellas for buying your fur. They're trying to make a living. You're not. If you were, you wouldn't be selling green fur to GFW.

9. Learn how to put up your fur. Makes life simpler. If your time budget doesn't allow for it, then selling green fur to GFW is what it is. Figure out what the average is for put up 'coon versus green 'coon. Figure out how long it takes you to put up 'coon. Then ask yourself if I use that time that would have been used to put up fur and instead set more traps, catch more 'coon, skin and freeze, will I make more money?

10. Buy another chest freezer. Not one that defrosts.

11. Keep it fun. If it isn't, and you need that money, I hear McDonald's is hiring.

I wasn't worried at all. Just wanted to see everyone get into a shouting match



That's the thing about Canadians. People think we're nice!

We are nice,people don't like nice.

My brother always used to say two things.

1. Women like nice guys for ten minutes tops.
2. Women have more control than you will ever know.

So Boco i agree with you. a lot of people don't like nice lol.

Muskrat nailed it!

I always pictured Canadians like they are on south park.

Thanks Muskrat. I figure handling your fur with pride and respect pay dividends, not always in dollars and cent.

You ever think, people don't treat their product with respect, because there is no financial incentive?

Rumor I hear is he's basically a route buyer for GFW. I'm and his partner are getting pretty aggressive running routes through several states

I am now a former NAFA guy like some others. I have sold to Groeny a number of times the past many years. Never had any problems and he is my go too fur guy now. If you don't like them then just quit selling. Really simple!

I have had nothing but good to say. They were always fair with us. Hard to ask more than that. I really appreciated the respect and encouragement Guy showed my son during his school years while trapping.

I ran long lines until 1999 when I got hurt at work. Every Friday night they stopped at a spot on my trapline. It was super convenient. I sold a whole pick up truck of fur every Friday night to them. My averages always started high and went down hill after the 2nd week of December. The checks were good but I figured I was paying for convenience. I sold to another local company too but stopped when they shot me $6 average. I tossed the coons out the door toward my truck and then it turned into a $7 average and then as I was driving out it turned into $9 average. That really made me see red and I went right over to Groeny's truck and sold for about that. I sold to NAFA too. The prices were great.
You have to be ready to leave with your fur.

Any job worth doing is worth doing right. Trappers who aren't willing to put forth the effort to put up their fur should consider another part time job.

If someone doesn't have the time to put up their fur they should consider setting fewer traps and they might want to consider not trapping at all until they do have the time.

As far as Groeny screwing people. IMHO no business can screw you without your permission. Every seller is free to say no.

BOHIGA

A job is worth doing right because you are trying to earn income. Many, if not most, of Groeny's suppliers are not trapping as an occupation. I'm sure Groeny knows this and pays accordingly.

Paying according sounds like a good business practice. You take care of the customers who are serious about the industry and who you know will be there in the future.

I provide a service and clients rate from A to D. While they all get the same quality of service they don't all get it for the same price.

That's a good business practice and one I won't apologize for.

Charge the poor people less and gouge the crap out of the rich mothers.

The pain in the arse ones pay the most no matter how many times they come back. I doubt you could afford it.

Definitly not.

I have yet to sell them a single skin. Will show them a few on the 11th and see how it goes

Gray dog I agree that it may be great business for groeny to pay different suppliers different prices. Probably not the best policy to let suppliers see you doing this.

Point well taken.

I've used up all my "nice" for the day!!! LOL!

Never sold to Groeny, but gonna give them a try this year...
Don't really care too much about pricing - I'm just having fun trapping and I get in a LOT of deer scouting!

I have said this more than once.. Have sold to them for many,many years (over 50). Have always felt treated right but than again I treat them right. That means clean, brushed fur, not trying to bid any defects from them, making sure fur is fresh and dry, etc. Respect is a two way street and has to be earned. Now that there is no NAFA to praise or hate we a 'll have to direct our attention else where and it won't be till after the first FHA auction that we will have somebody else. My fur is going in the Groenewold window. But I'm 6'3" and can alwAys see my fur.

Lots of interesting thoughts and perspectives on individual interactions at the point of sale, some good some not so good.

How about some thoughts on how this may affect the overall market to have one large buyer dominating the majority of fur sales across the US and Canada?

I do not believe he will dominate. Plenty of competition. Have a buyer right here in KS that has foreign buyers come here to buy from him. I think it may improve prices with them running more routes. Assuming Groneys offers are competitive.

I agree, just because one outlet closed there are plenty of options. Before I ever heard about NAFA I sold to others. Most of which are still in business.

I like them. just sold the other day, thought prices were competative in this market. My only complaint was they were not set up for buying castor, no scales or even price lists. This is their first route and first time buying castor so I'll let it slide.

The or I did good for the market. Where are they seeing the market prices? They see what Groney paid at the other stops. That is what Groney is paying and not necessarily the market. From what I have seen on here coon on the grease are bought for 6-12 dollars at the truck, no matter the market. There are a few that do better, but the average guy that walks up with a dozen coon, that is what they get, then they say they did good for the market.

If only they would post a price list of anything.

You cant post a price list if you pay different preferred clients a different price(as has been said on here)

I think you can do both. Especially on the ship him fur and he'll ship them back deal. I've mailed fur to dealers over the years, and never did it blindly. I had their price list in advance, so I knew not to waste my time. Actually, mailed it with my price requirements on the amount I would allow for price reductions on defective hides.

Danny
He may not dominate a single local buyer in their established buying area, but overall they are dominating the market across a very broad area. Groney can buy plenty of coon cheap and move those coon at relatively low margins making his profit on volume. Small local buyer have to compete at these low price levels. Why would an end user pay a small buyer more when he can get all he wants from groney. Coon was just an example but I'm sure that applies to other species in low demand right now.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and the buyer's grade is what his offer will based on. Reality 101.

More like bs 101.

Maybe the problem is that trappers aren't unionized. Lol

Sold to them for years and when I walked up to the truck they knew exactly who I was and what condition my fur would be in when it went thru the window...if I got a lil extra on fur it was because they knew I wouldn't attempt to cheat em...and yes that does happen alot unfortunately

Good one “gray dog” we would rather lose all our hides in a pyramid scheme of trying to control the price by holding back fur than truly auctioning them off and let the market determine the price. We continue to trap and send in fur when each one actually is trapped at a loss for the majority of the trappers today. If we had to make our living trapping most of us would get pretty dang hungry before next trapping season.

Question: if you were forced to, at these fur prices, make a living solely on fur trapping... would you send to Fha or groeny?

Some might disagree with this, but I would send my best stuff to FHA and sell the other half to groeny.

So from what everyone here has been saying, that sounds like the best option. For example, my top six or seven beaver last year averaged around sixty dollars, maybe a bit better out of eighty or so beaver. My overall average was about 18 for beaver. That's because I had a whole bunch of lesser grade mediums that were five dollar beaver.

If groeny gives a better average fur quality be dammed, then I should do just that. Send my best ten or fifteen beaver to Fha, and get a better average on pelts that aren't as great from groeny since it seems like that's what they do anyway.

And why would anyone disagree with you?... this is the internet after all, where we all get along and no one ever has differing opinions.

I suppose the question is, is it better to sell a portion of your fur at a higher price, and a portion of it at a lower price at Fha, or sell for a more even average on a nose count at groeny.

I got $185.00 top lot for a beaver three years ago, and I had three last sale one lot below top at about $85.00 each.

No top lots at groeny.

No offense intended to anyone, but wouldn't a person with better quality furs be better off selling to Fha right across the board? Most of my beaver taken under ice in February are very nice.

Maybe I missed it, but what's the difference in pay from groeny if you sell it to them dried and put up, vs green or on the critter?

Best I can tell, its about 10-15% more for put up over green.

forgive a guy who has always put up fur...green means skinned, fleshed, but not dried, while "in the round" means still on the critter, right?

Green means skinned to me, round is on the carcass

Are the buyers charged with price fixing in the U.S. (back when FHA was auctioning in Seattle) still buying at FHA? FHA moved to Canada so the price fixers could attend without being arrested. Did FHA hire all the NAFA wild fur people or just some of them? Were the NAFA people they hired the honest ones or the crooked ones? Were the fur graders the ones that call coyotes sent from E KS but caught in west NE sandhills Eastern? Is Canadian law enforcement going to prosecute anyone for writing bad checks? I am reluctant to let anything I take time to catch and stretch out of my hands before i am paid ever again. I want the right of refusal. More crooked stuff going on at those auction houses than goes on behind the scene in congress.

Green is skinned, probably not fleshed. He might do more than 15% on coyotes, after thinking about it. One time he told me 10 or 15 bucks on a coyote difference. I have sold dried beaver to them when the price was a little better but the last few times I sold green. Didnt seem like it was worth the work for a few bucks.

Right now if I had decent coyotes I'd send to a western auction, everything else it doesn't matter.

which auction? i could drive to hugo but its about 400 miles one way. have to have your fur there several days before the auction. so i guess ship it then drive out. have thought about just packing up my tent and some firewood and heading out to stay. or stay at my sisters in denver but thats 150 miles further west. been hearing the hugo sale has as many consigned already as they can handle. they may not be taking any. if i were going to sell there i would be calling them now

Groney's market for beaver is the hatter market, the low end of the scale for beaver prices. Groney's can buy green hides, then flesh, stretch and dry them for between $2 to $3 each. Why would they pay more than $2 to $3 more for beaver already finished? A better question is why would anyone put their time and effort into fleshing, stretching and drying and then taking off the board to get $2 or $3 more for that pelt.

I put up a few each year if I have a market for tanned pelts, otherwise, I skin and freeze them and sell them that way. It is not worth my time to flesh, stretch and dry them for the small difference in price.

I do not have the higher end under ice beaver either. If I did, I would be looking for other options.

Your mileage may vary......

I would say those that clean skin beaver,it would be worth 3 dollars for nailing and drying.Rough skinned-no-too much extra work.
Beaver is my favorite fur to handle and put up.

Nobody is forcing me. However, to make a living here, you got to detach yourself from the furbuyer/Auction limitations. It is not 1979. Since the '87 crash prices have rarely been attractive. Good idea for you, because you have eastern beaver to send your Dark Bigger undamaged beaver to FHA some times. I would never sell beaver to Groeny. No money in that for an under ice trapper here. Boco can learn you up, if he wants, on better options to market your beaver if you want to earn a reasonable return on your investment in time and expenses.