Possibles bag

My son and I worked on getting this bag put together this afternoon. I'm pleased with how it turned out. It was for a fundraiser for the county 4-H program, but I'll have to put my bid in.

Do you carry around a possibles bag when you are out?

Nice bag. Is it made of kangaroo leather?

Keith

I tried to sleep but cant . So I came back to Tman and I seen this and laughed uncontrollably. Why on this green earth would you think it's kangaroo leather Keith? Good Lord lol. Well I made these in the early 90's and they are not kangaroo lol.

Keith,
It looks like deer skin to me.

Used to carry a possibles bag. But, got tired of how it draped down and snagged on things as I’d try to duck down and crawl through brush. Gave up on it and went to a fanny pack and then eventually a couple of old empty pill bottles and now I just grab 3-4 speed loaders and my capper. That’ll get me through. If I did, I’d put a bid on that one myself.

No, it is deerskin.

That's a "shooting pouch." A "possibles bag" is for carrying all the stuff you need that is NOT associated with your gun and is generally larger (like a haversack). But it's yours, you made it, and can call it whatever you want. Nice job too. It looks like deer hide to me too.

Gee, I dunno C22, sort of looks like kangaroo to me!

A friend of mine, James, brought back a great deal of kangaroo leather from Australia. The texture of the leather and thickness appears identical. James uses it to make similar bags for falconry.

Keith

No offense intended at all Keith, it was late and kangaroo made me giggle. I used to enjoy working with leather. That bag in the front of the pic is one I made and then one year for Christmas I made all the guys in my family one just like it. Back when we had a hunting party, it was cool when we would gather for muzzle loading season and had the same possibles bag. Sure miss those days.

No offense taken Jeff.

Keith

I think the definition is regional.

I have always heard Possibles bag used as all the things you could possibly need for your gun

capper , caps , patches , turn-screw , spare flints in a flint wallet ,tiny napping hammer spar nipple if a cap lock , wedge puller & nipple wrench tool, cleaning jag , ball puller ect.. as we got to hunting closet to home I suppose it became a shooting pouch with just what you needed to hunt for the day
other than your powder horn.

all your non gun stuff when in your haversack, or other means of transport like saddle bags, pack basket or canoe pack.

Man , why not just call it what it is .........a purse .........


Just kidding fellas........somebody had to say it

If you read into the history of the mountain men, a possible bag is everything you would need for everyday activity. It’s all your shooting gear plus a flint and steel. Sometimes odds and ends such as a fork or spoon and sewing needle and sinew or thread. It was they’re equivalent of a day pack essentially

A woodsman (or mtn man for that matter) doesn't carry his gun stuff in his equivalent of a day pack any more than you would put one round in your gun and ammo for follow-up shots in your day pack today. It has to be more handy than that or you won't keep your scalp very long. The shooting pouch is the first thing to go on and the last to be thrown off because the only gear more valuable to life is your gun.

Here's a small one I worked on in my spare time... I finally finished it a few weeks ago. It's pretty small, but can carry just about everything needed for a day's shooting.

3-4 oz veg tan bag body, 6 oz veg tan strap. Fiebings Chocolate and Green pro dye. Hand stitched with hemp carriage thread.




Heck, if anyone is interested in it I'll make you a deal on it. Lol

Mike

Bag ,pouch kangaroo I get it! Lol

Couple guys back home actually used to carry purses for their BP guns. Took ones their wives were done using. I’d shoved stuff in my pockets before I did that personally. Couldn’t stand the smell that was coming off them.

That's sexy Mike, nice!

Nice

In most cases they only wore the possible bag and it doubled as a shooting bag. What I meant by the day pack equivalent is that it’s not just for shooting gear. A lot of times it was the shooting gear plus a few other odds and ends like fire kit and stuff they might need during a day of hunting.

Bro did the the tanning and beadwork!

Sexy man, I like it!

COMuleman, I know exactly what you meant and I don't agree, but I am certainly willing to be shown to be wrong. What references can you share. I have read several books on the mtn men and on the eastern woodsmen such as Boone and Kenton and what you describe is not the accepted consensus in the circles I run.

Made by Scott Sibley

http://wyomuseum.state.wy.us/pdf/dtmountainman.pdf

https://www.historycolorado.org/mountain-man-artifacts

https://centerofthewest.org/wp-cont...ailblazers-Skype-Lesson-Presentation.pdf

EdP, here’s just a few links I found online. I have read quite a few books about the Mtn men and would have to go through them to find references in the books. As for the Longhunters of the east, I haven’t looked into as much and don’t know if they differed from the western explorers. I’m not saying that everyone was the same either. I’m sure they carried both ways as well. I just think the term possibles bag covers everything you want to put in it including shooting gear.

I like that headed strap!

Mike

I carry one with my snares and a few other things in it . It is canvas though. I bought it at a army surplus store and I think it was called a Swiss army map bag. Not as nice as the one you guys are posting but it get the job done.

I used to make them in my Rendezvous days. But its been years...now I just make Small Medicine pouche's

Well, I bought back the bag. It turned out nice enough that I didn't want it to go too cheap, so I made a donation to get it back. It is a bit small to be a true possibles bag, and too big to be a medicine bag or neck bag. It wouldn't be big enough for a shooting bag, but about the right size for a fire kit, a first aid kit and a snare or two.

Hey Scott, do you sell ones like the one in the first pic? PM me if ya do.

I made Some like that over the years for the Tman Auctions...PM sent

CoMuleman, I will note first off that none of your sources are primary source documents so cannot be counted on to be accurate. They MAY be accurate or may not. No telling if they are not primary source documents, but lets look at what they say.

From your first reference: POSSIBLES BAG: This bag served as the carrying pouch for items the mountain man might “possibly” have needed, such as tools for the firearms, tinder to start fires, bullets and personal gear. Here you have some support for your position, but mixing tinder to start fires and personal gear with bullets and firearm tools is not what I or anyone else I know does except for those items not likely to be needed close at hand.

From your second reference: Possibles Bag - A very important piece of the trapper’s gear, the possibles bag was used for the storage of any number of items, from flints and steels, to the castoreum box, awls, and other tools used in daily trapping life. There is no mention of anything that would be needed to keep a gun working.

From your 3rd reference: A possibles bag carried the mountain man’s necessities, such as knife and flint. Again nothing there about items to keep a gun working.

Another item from your 3rd reference: The mountain man carried a leather pouch called a possible bag. A possible bag contained everything a mountain man needed to survive in the wilderness. The mountain man carried the supplies he needed in the bag. He carried: • a metal tobacco tin with a glass disk to hold tobacco or flint and steel strikers to start fires • a spoon made from cow or buffalo horn and a crude fork • Beads and trinkets for trade with the American Indians Once again, nothing there about items to keep a gun working.


I do not believe your references help you make your case. I agree that a possibles bag was used like we would now use a day pack, and I use a haversack in exactly the same way when hunting in 18th century gear, but I carry a separate shooting pouch with the items needed to run my flintlock. The shooting pouch items include tools to pull a ball and clean the bore, spare flints, compass, patching, balls, turn screw, patch knife, vent pick, and a cows knee. There is no room for "personal items" or tinder or flint and steel and char cloth, or even a ball mold. Those items go in my haversack (possibles bag). If you look at the size of the bag pictured I think you will find it of a size more appropriate for those items that are needed and will fit in a shooting pouch.

Wow...someone believes their right

Fair enough, just a friendly debate. I could be completely wrong, that’s just the way I’ve taken it. I’m definitely going to look around and see what good references I can find. Do you happen to have any documents that you could show? I would love to see them. I’m always for learning and not afraid to admit if I’m wrong.

Its a common theme among the living history/reenacting vs rendezvous crowd. I have been accused of being a stitch counter, oh well.

There never was an item called a possibles bag pre-1850. That term was never used in any of the old journals, that I am aware of. Did trappers, etc carry knapsacks? All the time. Haversacks were a military item and there is VERY little evidence of them being used by civilians. We also have to keep in mind that western trappers and many of the eastern frontiersmen, were mounted 99% of the time. All of their gear was carried on their horses and mules.

Not all trappers were the best prepared, like we want to believe they were. The old journals are full of people getting lost, cold, starving, running out of ammo, and all sorts of other problems.

Buck skin pouch with muskrat flap. Although not nearly as fancy, I feel it’s much closer to what you would find 200 years ago in the back of beyond. No thread, no metal, no beads. Simply 1 muskrat, wang and pouch out of 1 deer hide.

True stuff.

And when reading writings of "old times" you have to know the author and time of writings. Just like they say about the internet....just because its there/ written dosen't make it fact.

[quote=tomahawker]

Buck skin pouch with muskrat flap. Although not nearly as fancy, I feel it’s much closer to what you would find 200 years ago in the back of beyond. No thread, no metal, no beads. Simply 1 muskrat, wang and pouch out of 1 deer hide.
[/q

Very true. Most anything made on the frontier was fashioned with what was on hand. I have a book somewhere that showed some of the items carried in a [ insert preferred technical term here ] pouch... The one item that stuck out was an awl for leather work. And a lot of early trade knives had a "Spanish Notch" for stripping sinew... So with some tawed/tanned leather, an awl, and trade knife you could fashion most anything you needed... Clothing, shelter, pouches, mocassins, etc...

Mike

COMuleman, here is a resource that I believe supports my case. Shooting pouch link Once you open the link page down to the heading "Pouches, Bags and Accoutrements." There you will find numerous period paintings depicting shooting pouches (or shot bags/hunting bag/shot pouch) plus photos of surviving bags both from England and various American colonies. From their relative size I believe it is clear that only a small amount of gear can be carried in them. That, to me, would exclude a fire start kit, tinder, personal items, ect, that would have to be carried in a larger bag or in some other manner. In other words, the bags depicted were for what was needed to support shooting and little if anything else.

That argument made, I will admit that it doesn't exclude a person from carrying a larger bag with all the items from the shooting pouch dumped in with whatever else was being carried. To make a more convincing argument based on historical documentation I would have to find evidence of both being carried and I haven't done that. However, it seems terribly inefficient to put all those small items in a larger bag with a bunch of other stuff when a person would want it handy.

Beadwork available from Crazy Crow Trading Post

Beaded Strip

My pouch was originally a pillow for my pistol, hence the photo. Works good to carry stuff too.

Like I said earlier, I’m sure it was done both ways. I’ve seen estimates that say roughly 3000 men came west during the early 19th century for the fur trade era. (Again I don’t have the info of the longhunters in the eastern frontier). These were a mix match of different types of people and different backgrounds and ethnicity. Most of these are so undocumented that we don’t have a clue about, we only have the bits and pieces of those that did happen to document. Even some of the well known Mtn men, we only have the histories that have been passed on by people who heard or witnessed it. That’s why the few documents and journals we have are so valuable for the info. I’ve looked at the Alfred Jacob Miller paintings and the bags he shows from that period were a little larger than the ones in the link you showed it appears but like I said,there was hundreds of men and I’m sure they all had there own way of doing it and I don’t think one way or the other is wrong as long as it works for the person using it.

Saw this on another site....

Possibly known as a Purse also.

Murse.........man purse

I have made others but this one I traded for.

Alfred Jacob Miller's painting "The Trapper's Bride" shows the trapper wearing a bag of size consistent with the period bags shown in my previous post. The Trappers Bride."[/url] Same for "Louis, Rocky Mountain Trapper." Louis, Rocky Mountain Trapper. Same for "Taking the Hump Rib."Taking the Hump Rib

Interesting exercise this research is. I knew Miller had done sketches and paintings of the era but did not recognize the quantity of the work he did.