Groeny’s first kansas run

Any Kansas guys sell anything today to Groeny? According to his schedule he should have made his rounds today.

I pulled ten coyotes off stretchers today. going to be in emporia tomorrow to see what they are worth to gfw

nothing special not even brushed much.

I'd be intrested in what they bid you on them
Good luck

It looks like 1@ $85 6 @ $45 2@ 20 1@ 10.....lol

I can see two fishing rods you are giving prices for, where is the rest.?
Good luck Danny....

No way to tell what they are worth from that pic.

3 pairs of gloves for that lot !

Sold 1 at 50, 2 at 30, 1 at 20 plus a couple damaged cinnamon coyote at 5. Coons were about a 5 dollar average with lots of dinks.

GFW likes those $30-35 yote averages, didn't include your "cinnamon" dogs.

That seems to be the on going trend on groney coyotes.

I would sell to Wiebkes from what I hear

Only if you give them a free muskrat with the coyotes.

Yeah those "cinny red " yotes dont have the clarity the buyers want. They want the pales


Hope Danny gets a good price for his.

Groeny almost broke out a c note for a pelt. I bet that may be first.

I would guess the $10 dropped the C note right back down in the average rather quick - but ya, a man got $85 for a coyote - that's what the rumor is.....definitely looks like the avg will be around 30-35

$30.00 averages on coyotes $3.50 averages on rats and $5.00 averages on green skinned coon and $10.00 averages on put up coon.

I'm betting auction prices won't be much better except on coyotes.

Hes saving his money for all our canadian coyotes hes trying to buy right now.

From what I seen and was quoted Lincoln Fur would do better than$35 average on put up coyotes

Without Nafa there is no reason or incentive to pay more nobody to keep buyers competitive. I’m going to try fur harvesters I’ll pay the commission for true values.

Or the Montana ones
But Canadian be better his money will go farther lol

Well what happened? Danny go off about Obama on them and they had him thrown in jail? lol

Maybe he's ashamed of the offer.

Maybe he took that offer and that is what he is ashamed of...

I usually sell to Groeny, have thought about sending to FHA but with the demsie of NAFA I am going to wait a season or 2 to send them any fur. Mainly because I think they are going to be overwhelmed by the volumenof incoming fur no matter how much they prepared for it in advance. Will be interesting to see what the first auction results are though.

havnt left yet. wont be there for an hour and a half. im not in that eastern time zone

I have an appointment with Barnes fur. He will be near me when I can't make it so he set a time that worked for me. He also buys Castor and his price on that is good. Groenwald doesn't have a scale so doesn't normally buy Castor although I saw them buy from a guy last year. He gave $20 bucks for 6 nice big full Castor. Should have been at least double that, probably more.

i sold 5 and brought 5 home. 260 for the 5 i sold

Well then It's not a true average.

thanks for posting, don't worry about the deer hide barter guy cheap shots.

Looks like you did ok Danny.

I would be interested in what the offer was on the 5 brought home.

probably $20 average for the take backs. $100+ $260= 360/ 10 = $36 average

I guess that blows the all.or nothing talk everyone is throwing around. Glad you got to experience it.

Smart.

Danny, why do t you send me the 5 you took home and I will take them to him and see how much he gives me for the same 5. Need them before the 20th. I need some extra Christmas money.

2018 Oregon trapper sale on about 1500 coyotes ave sale price $68 minus 1/2 the commission of a Canada sale and that goes to fight the antis... That's better than the Gman and you will get paid... If you put your fur up, send it! Or Fallon NV good ave too!

I think my statement about a true average Is relevant. If you sold all 10 what would your average be? What was the break down on the 5 you took home

And since you took 5 home what are you going to do with them?

Looks like you did good on the five you sold was there that much difference between the 5 you sold and the 5 you took home. I know this Isn't your first rodeo so you know your fur.

Beav's right, a true average would be ALL of the fur.

I recently took 8 coon to Guy. He offered 1 @ 20, 1@15, 2 @10 and 4 at 5. That's a $9.38 average.

I took back the 4 @ 5, he counter offered to buy one of those at 8, and I agreed. So I sold 5 hides, 1 @ 20, 1 @ 15, 2@ 10 and 1 at 8. Average for sold is 12.60. But, I still have 3 hides. Technically, they are a 0, until I sell them somewhere.

Agreed

Yep I am true average guy myself
It's always interesting how we look at a pile of fur.

Of the five i took home, one had a rub between the shoulder blade. The others were not 44 dollar cheaper coyotes. He didnt get upset when I didnt sell them. Beav, I have more coyotes. Deer season ends Monday. I will get out there again. The five will go with them when I sell. I dont think I will sell any more to the route truck.

Thanks for the info Danny.

You guys kill me. When I tried to mouth about your average at NAFA using the same formula some said I was mentally challenged .. (may be )
So you guys going to post your "REAL" averages on here including the buy backs , insufficient funds, and 25 cent coons that sold to NAFA ?????

[quote=jbyrd63



You guys kill me. When I tried to mouth about your average at NAFA using the same formula some said I was mentally challenged .. (may be )
[/quote]


Wasn't me, I've never sold through NAFA.

Wasn't me, I've never sold through NAFA.[/quote]


LOL No but the kool aid drinkers sure gave me heck....... You and I agree Its in any production product. If you cut 10 loads of wood and can only sell 7 at 200 bucks a load and the rest rots (like coons at nafa). Your average isn't 200 bucks, it's 140 . You received 1400 bucks out of the 10 loads you produced. The rest became useless . Like held over fur.....................

Good deal Danny. It sure helps to know your furs worth and have options.

Have you ever sent any to the sale in Co!orado? I've seen some decent results from them before.

" I dont think I will sell any more to the route truck." Sounds like he wasn't impressed?

He sold didn't he? Something musta suited him.

And, did I say he was impressed? Go fight with someone else today Dirt.

I wish he could take the same 5 he sold and run them through the Colorado sale to see what happens. I sent fur there once and wasnt impressed at all. Guess Oklahoma must have the crappiest fur in all the states. The guy that put the fur up for me even thought what I got was a joke.

We've all wished that a time of two Matt, once the hammer dropped.

Sorry to hear you didn't get what you tho k your fur was worth at an auction, but that's the risk over going to the Groeny truck first.

[/quote] You guys kill me. When I tried to mouth about your average at NAFA using the same formula some said I was mentally challenged .. (may be )
So you guys going to post your "REAL" averages on here including the buy backs , insufficient funds, and 25 cent coons that sold to NAFA ????? [/quote]

On the thousands of coons I have sent to NAFA since 2014 I have 4 remaining that are unsold and a $66 check that bounced. I tried to find a yearly average over those 5 years but a few of those reports won't load. Anecdotally that average will be over $14 after every single fee and commission you can think of is taken out. The slightly over $100 I am out because of unsold coons and bounced checks is a rounding error in the ten of thousands of dollars that NAFA has sold for me. That is why you argument is dumb. You have blown a minor cost and inconvenience way out of proportion. If I sell to Groenewold this year, I am likely to take a 40% haircut on that average and it will cost me thousands. Groeny most certainly does not rock.

I was happy with what I was offered on the 8 coyotes I took. Coon average sucked, but I already knew that was going to happen. Top coyotes were at $70 and my lowest was $30. Averaged $51 and some change.

I've been in a good run of coyotes. Could I do better at FHA? yeah probably, but I'm just happy to have another option to sell fur. It's nice have Groney and Lincoln Fur so close to me now.

On a side note, from the prices quoted for bobcats, neither one of them will be getting mine. I'll ship them. I don't know what the cat market is doing, but $45 tops just isn't even close to the ballpark I'd be playing in.

What did he offer on your coons? Anyone sell any beaver?

I'm trying to sell blanket beaver as we speak.

Very nice Dirt.

Hey TT
I bet groneys ave will blow NAFA away this year!!!!

So let me get this straight . You sold THOUSANDS of coons to nafa. But didn't have any that got held over until they went stale and sold at a firesale for .25? I find that hard to believe unless you have the best coon in the nation and got in on ALL the top prices. Don't take many .25 cent coons do drop them 25 dollar coon really fast.
But I have no way of knowing how much you got paid . But sure are a lot of fellows on here would like to have those averages over last 4 years on OVER 2000 coons. (you said thousandS ) means more than 1999 this bunch you have to be precise no guestimating

The firesale word gets thrown around all the time but there was only one auction a few years back that would have even remotely begun to have fit into that category and even then my average before fees was low 7s-high 6s on fairly low volume. I do not recall having ever sold coon for less than a dollar. That's not to say it hasn't happened but if it did, it would not have been in any serious quantities. The point of my post wasn't to say there weren't holdovers from auction to auction or season to season. The point was that in the six seasons of doing business with them there were only 4 coon that hadn't sold and to go further into that point, 4 coons has been about the average holdover per season after that infamous "firesale" that everyone talks about. If I had a choice of having to hold on to 4 coons a season or get paid 40% less for my entire collection, that's not even really a choice. What you saw from NAFA and what I saw from NAFA could be two very different things given the difference in our sections. There has been some decent demand for northern coon for quite some time and have sold out at decent prices and decent clearances. Unfortunately you are right though...Groeny's averages will most likely blow away NAFA's this year. That fact does not make the pain of the situation any less severe.

I hope the chinamen start buying otter again.
For many years good prices like these were the norm for scrap fur at the auctions.Only one labelled skin out of the bunch.Today most of that grade fur would not be shipped.

Tone , hope you got that much because at over 500 coons a year (your words not mine) lord knows you worked hard. I caught 86 one year and felt it after finishing that many.

I'm going to back Ttone on this one. I was only doing about 30-50 coon a year in recent years, mostly incidental to coyote trapping. Always a few held over from auction to auction but always got paid and paid pretty well. I have no complaints about any "fire sale" activity.

2014 to 2019 is six auction seasons not 4. I'm in the low 400s this year. I put up 62 at a time. You get used to the grind after a couple hundred. I'm in the shed now trying to download the picture but I'm not sure it's going to work.

My NAFA coon situation generally mirrors TrapperTone's but at way, way, way smaller amounts of hides shipped. I do like playing with numbers so I have an Excel spreadsheet where my yearly and cumulative NAFA auction metrics were calculated. I have no fur sitting in NAFA storage except for 3 grinners, all my coon shipped from the 2018/19 season has sold, although I did get a bounced check for the last 6 ones.

I had coon fur in 16 NAFA auctions btween May 2013 and August 2019. My high was $28 and my low was $1 (a couple examples that were fresh coon that were screwed up to begin with or I screwed up in handling). My 2016 and 2018 NAFA selling seasons were disappointments, other than that, I was satisfied. My overall cumulative NAFA coon average was $12.36, after 9% commission that brings it down to $11.25, all sizes included, although I haven't sent anything smaller than 1xl since 2015, except 1 Lge this past season (went Western Northen and got $4 for it). My personal threshold average to dink with coon in my overall slowness and scale of trapping is $10. I haven't set a trap for coon this season. Don't know if I will, have burned all my vacation time on a couple of trips to see my kid in the Amry.

Good luck to you TrapperTone, you have a good system and work hard. Keep those averages north of a Hamilton!!

I've actually had the conversation with my trapping buddy that this may be my last season. Contrary to everyone else on this forum I am trapping for the money. I treat it like my own little business and the current prices that are out there do not justify the work (as has been stated by others in disbelief in my catch is too much). If FHA is unable to attract enough buyers to push up their averages towards where NAFA was at I will probably look to liquidate my trapping assets. This is what we should fear from the buyers who are taking advantage of the NAFA situation. I can't fault them for doing it but they are putting in jeopardy the future of the fur market. If production collapses to a point where there isn't enough fur in the pipeline to even think about creating a fashion design around it, fur prices will never be able to rebound relegating the entire industry to novelty use alone. I realize we are not there yet, but if I'm already considering getting out of the sport, there has to plenty more with that same thought at least somewhat subconsciously rolling around in their heads.

Adapt and overcome, why is it up to FHA to make up your lost margin?
I found a new market that boosted my margin greatly. I for one will continue to trap just as I will fish and hunt. For the money I spend on those 2 things I could buy fish and meat for food at a much lesser cost....

Sold 25 beaver. Not put up. 19 at 8.00. 6at 2.00. Buying by size. Color or fur did not seem to matter.

Well put

Strike2x-

It is up to FHA to make up everyone's lost margin as they are now the only ones seriously competing against the fur buyers and given the current offers going around, the buyers don't view FHA as competition in the same way as they saw NAFA. If FHA doesn't get better prices than they have in the past, it justifies the huge price drop seen in the country this year. Again the word "firesale" has been thrown around everywhere on this forum for years. I personally didn't see it, but perhaps others on this forum did and if it did in fact happen I would suggest that the current prices are more danger to the fur market as a whole than that one time event especially because I see no reason for the fur buyers increase their prices in the future without competition from an auction or until volume reaches a point where the market will probably be dead anyways. I am glad you found another market for your fur but unless you sold it to biofuel company who is turning it into the fuel of the future, it is for novelty use and that market cannot sustain the volume for needed for our sport to thrive in the future.

When you have been selling the best coon in the world for $14 averages, and think these are not on fire, you possibly have not sold them for $30 or $40 averages?

I have not sold them for $30-$40 but I can make the economics work at $14 averages. I cannot make them work at $10 or less.

I thought this was about what groney was paying in Ks.?

Not any more now this thread is about what south Dakota coon use to be worth. I know one thing if they had Oklahoma coon they would be happy with the prices they get for south Dakota coon

Let's try this again. Anyone sell any Kansas coons to Groeny this go around and are willing to post prices?

This was incredibly well said.

I recently listened to someone extremely knowledgeable on the fur industry explain this concern. It is indeed directly related to discussions of GFC prices.

Sure glad you pulled the nails out of the coffin MNCedar......put some sense back in this thread going no-where

There is currently an oversupply even at these prices. There is no lack of supply, and never will be since people trap for fun.

I see that Dirt,look at all the inapropriate references to "Sport" in regards to trapping.

People that trap for fun dont have to sell the fur just pitch it in the ditch. No need to sell something that wont pay the gas anyway.

And at these low prices, no boom in sight or someone surely would be willing to buy some up and gamble.

Who died and left you the sacred keeper of the

trapping community's "appropriate" language, BOCO ?

w

Trapping isn't a sport.
If trapping ever gets relegated to a "sport" you can kiss it goodbye.
The general public today wont support the killing of animals that you cant eat for "fun sport".
Maybe you can have fun doing nuisance control WORK.
If you want to take up sports after trapping is done,maybe you can play hockey or tennis,golf or basketball.

Like it or not Boco, trapping is a sport.
We just don't use the same gear as other sports.

No trapping is not a sport.It can never be a sport If you sell the product its commercial.Commercial harvesting to manage the resource is not a sport-
Anyone who kills animals for fun is sick.
Nuisance animal control is also not a "sport"

I have fun trapping, so it's a sport
If I didn't have fun, it would just be a job.

So you never sell fur-Bull.
Subsistence trapping for meat or fur for own use is acceptable to the public.Killing for some sick pleasure is not.

I sell about half my fur, and tan the lesser grade stuff.
All the money I make always goes back into more trapping supply's.
And I believe there are more fun trappers than make a living at it trappers.
Though I would love to trap for a living. I have to be realistic, my section does not have any fur this market wants.

Nothing sick about trapping for pleasure. Very few people are making money trapping right now, unless they have premium furs in their area, which I wager is only about 10 percent or less. So, for most, it's a sport.

No,it is like Ralph Bice stated,the reason people follow trapping as a line of work is because they enjoy the outdoor life and the freedom of being on the land.
But if they could not sell the fruits of their labour for a fair financial compensation to provide for their families they would have no reason to follow that line of work.,
Its not surprising you have all the fur bans and trapping restrictions down there with that attitude of killing just for fun.The public wont support killing animals for "sport".The public still supports commercial trapping as well as for sustenance,Nuisance animal control is also not a "sport"It is commercial work just like trapping for the fur industry.
The attitude that killing animals and tossing them in the ditch for" fun" will be the death of the industry and will put professional trappers out of work.

Well, Boco, now you understand what is really going on and know that there is no hope.

So you don't enjoy trapping at all Boco? You only do it because it has to be done?

.

I guess all us hobby trappers should just quit and leave it to you professionals eh Dirt?

No. The industry needs you to supply at below production costs.

Just because it is a hobby does not mean it is a sport, there are hobby farmers, hobby ranchers, etc. These are not sports but a hobby. Here in Texas it used to say commercial furbearers license, now it just says trapping license. If you can not grasp what Dirt and Boco are saying, then I have to agree with them that this industry is a soon to be memory.

Ok well I see my post has went south as usual. Thanks for the people that actually posted useful information. I am still trying to figure out how NAFA making poor decisions and going bankrupt is FHA’s faullt and will ultimately cause low prices and be the demise of trapping. Wow. Apparently prices were great last year when NAFA was selling your fur and getting ready to send you bad checks. So getting higher prices and going bankrupt must be better than slightly lower prices and staying in business?? And then everyone sits around bashing a company that buys fur and in the same breath complains about not having enough options and competition to raise prices. We need prices to go back up so I can actually read useful conversations on here about trapping. I guess if you can’t make a living at trapping get out, it’s a sport for me and something I enjoy doing, all I ask is start your own post and bash away on Groeny, FHA and everyone else that is buying fur at a lower price than you think you deserve.

I apologise for the use of the word sport. I did not like the nomenclature the first time I wrote it but struggled for a better word at the time and then let it snow ball from there. Regardless of how you feel about the word I should not have used it because as I said, I trap for the money. I also apologise to the Kansas guys whose thread I hijacked. I wrote a couple replies to Jbyrd or whatever his name is on some other threads regarding NAFA but always deleted them. This was the one I finally hit post on. Sorry.

So much for anything to do with OP

Groeny has to turn a Profit to stay in Business... Pay a fuel bill for driving a truck around. Employee pay. Then dress or prep fur for garments. Pay the cost to ship to China to your buyers..

Of course They cant Pay TOP Dollar , Otherwise they would be NAFA'ED.

I have caught a lot of flack myself. We worry about discussing quick and humane ways to kill animals then turn around and tell everybody we are doing that killing for fun. Just like killing deer for their antlers and calling the animal a trophy is turning a whole generation away from firearm ownership and hunting, killing furbearers just to be killing, ABSOLUTELY IS THE #1 REASON FOR ALL THE CONTROVERSY.

I think by definition it's probably ok for us as trappers to think of trapping as a "sport" that we enjoy doing. However, the point I think some are trying to get across recently on this thread is that it's dangerous to refer to trapping as a "sport" to the 98% or so of Americans (and maybe Canadians?) that aren't trappers. When most think of a "sport" they think of a hobby that someone does for enjoyment, not necessarily for a specific purpose. As trappers it's important that we advertise what we do as population control, animal damage control, harvesting for food, etc. Not just killing for fun. Like it or not, it's the majority of Americans that don't currently have a negative opinion about trapping that we need to keep a positive image for. If not, the majority will end our trapping ways.
Just today I read an article in a state outdoor news paper and it stated that in a nation-wide survey only 13% of Americans were in favor of trapping for fur/fur clothing (sport). American favoritism for trapping increased to over 55% when done for restoration projects, damage control, food, etc. The overarching image of trapping is not a great one. We as trappers need to do a better job of promoting the importance of trapping for ecological sustainability and ADC.

Sorry to continue to keep your post hijacked, trapfurfun.

If you want to know if what groney is doing will work for you, show him some fur and see what he offers. They have been buying a long time and it must work for a lot of people. If it isnt going to work for you say no thanks and take your stuff home. Same as you do any other buyer. Should not be hard feelings if you cant agree on a price. That is just BUSINESS.

The reason why gfw buys so much fur off of trappers is because the travel WAY more than any other buyer. A buyer will buy a ton of fur just by being the closest buyer to the trapper. I've noticed alot of smaller trappers sell to them because they run routes close to their home and have heard their name before as one of the larger buyers. There is guys out there buying alot more volume than what trappers think. They just are not running half the counties in each of 15 states. They are paying a little more and getting dealer lots of fur. GFW dont ever advertise prices because in certain areas, lack of competition areas, grades get harder and prices drop.