Woman fined for WI elk

https://www.jsonline.com/story/spor...g-two-elk-while-deer-hunting/2679912001/

They gave her 6,000 in fines then say

"DNR chief conservation warden Todd Schaller said the incidents highlight two main points about hunting and safety."The first is to be sure of your target and what's beyond," Schaller said. "The other is, if you make a mistake, be honest and contact the department.""

uhhhhh... mistaking a bull elk for a deer is pretty stupid but coming forward only to receive $6,000 in fines, Yikes!

Dumb, stupid mistake. However, I think over $6000 in fines is excessive since she turned herself in. That will make it much easier for the next person who makes a stupid mistake to just S&S.

Two bull elk.

The elk restoration project has been ongoing for 20+ years and is still barely viable after spending tons of money on transplants, habitat, monitoring etc. Wolves are the major problem but incidents like this are a major setback. Kudos for turning herself in but given the costs the program has incurred I don't believe the fines are excessive and hopefully will act as a deterrent to some stupidity, obviously not all.

Said she was "FACING" the fines, not that she had been "GIVEN" the fines.

Beltran is a hunter safety graduate and has deer hunted for the last two years, according to the report. She once harvested a young buck.

So we have a 41 year-old woman in her third year of deer hunting who got excited to see what she thought was a young buck, shot at it, it disappeared, she thought it reappeared, shot "it" again, then discovered she had shot two different elk. Then she reports the incident.

I'd wager she's all done deer hunting. Especially after getting spanked with $6000+ in fines.

Maybe I'm just getting old and soft, but doesn't that seem just a bit excessive? What would the fine have been if she had not reported it but later was found to be the shooter? The same or more?

If the same, I'd say give her points for at least reporting it.

Six grand?

Seeing a lot over the last few years around Warren, last year I was surprised how many were there.

What's the moral high ground in turning yourself in? The elk is already dead - you can't put that genie back in the bottle. Getting a fine and losing your hunting privileges doesn't make anything better. She likely won't be able to hunt again and I'm glad about that but If I screw up that bad, I'm keeping my mouth shut.

I am all for following the law and being ethically sound but I disagree. If they haven't got the program up and running after 20 years, that's on them and to link her to pay for their failure is wrong. Also, high fines is another great strategy to deter hunters to hunt.

One Bull elk or two bull Elk wont effect squat

I am with you on this one Muskrat. It sounds excessive to me too. It will be more of a deterrent for future reporting than for shooting an accidental elk.

How in the world do you mistake an elk for deer? Even though I don't have that figured out $6000 is excessive considering she reported the mistake. That's a sure way to prevent any future mistakes made by anyone to be reported.

So I can go on an elk hunt guided out west for $5000.00 to $12,000.00. She gets to shoot to elk when many would love to have ever shot one. Yeah she gets no meat or horns but she shot 2 elk. She shot them at 50 , 50 yards come on, that is ridiculous and $6000.00 is not enough. She has shot a buck prior to this season, she has hunted before. Yep I want her in the woods near me. I sure hope she lost hunting privileges for a couple years! Absolute joke.

LOL

I shot two deer by accident a few decades ago. Immediately after shooting, the buck dropped where it stood. I was shooting a break open single shot 12 gauge. I immediately reloaded. When I looked up from reloading the buck was back on his feet right where he dropped, so I shot him again.

When I got up to where the deer stood, there lay two identical two point bucks. The second buck had apparently been bedded down and jumped up at the shot.

This was pre cell phone days, it was even before caller ID days. Naively I call the Game Department and asked the people what I should do, and what the implications would be. They wouldn't tell me a thing but just asked me for my name and phone number. I told them I would think about it and maybe call them back; I didn't.

Should a mistake like that receive a fine? Not in my book. I would have been more than happy to process that extra buck and donate it to a charity if given the option to do that. Instead it went in my freezer.

I could see the fine being excessive if she shot once, lost it then thought it stepped out and shot again. But she shot the first one 3 times, and the second one 4 times, and at 50 yards she should've been able to tell what she was shooting at considering it turned broadside. There's a pretty big color difference between an elk and a deer.

I wouldn't fault you.

Median household income in Rusk County WI is 41k and the average house cost 100k. A 6,000 dollar fine is probably a couple YEARS worth of saving, 6 months+ of mortgage payments, that is a serious hardship for most people, especially for a mistake (albeit a really stupid one) that you admitted to.

Yep , at fifty yards thats not an accident , thats just plain stupid


Not knowing your target until after its on the ground is how people get shot while hunting


Replacement costs for two elk from another state would be higher

I had a thread a while back about self reporting an accidental wild life violation. Most said they would report it. Based on that story you might think differently. I am not saying she should walk free but 6000 dollars is excessive.

Gotta set precedence or people wont care

I get the WON magazine and there is a whole page of cuffs and collars every two weeks. Sure there are a lot of hunters and fishermen but even 1-3 % of the total with all the things they get caught doing does not make us look like a moral and stable segment of our society.
What is the appropriate punishment for wildlife violations? That has been and always will be a debate. I like many feel that dollar fines are too high for many of our violations and maybe seizure and longer loss of privileges would be more appropriate. In the case discussed here the shooting of two bull elk at 150 feet indicates some lack of knowledge of identification or deliberate shooting of the animals. The $6,000 in this case may be some repayment of the high cost to bring the animals here, monitor and do the studies. You can drive recklessly and cause significant damage and may be injury and pay less than some wildlife fines are.

Bryce

These Elk were shot right by our cabin, I was fortunate enough to watch the herd over the summer and into early fall. These were the first elk I've ever seen in the wild in Wisconsin and shared that experience with many friends after we would go out to dinner, my granddaughters are too young to appreciate the significance but I thought it was really special to share that moment with them. Two Bulls might seem insignificant in a highly populous elk area but based on my viewings she wiped out 2/3rds of the Bull population with two imprudent shots. There is a breeding Bull within that herd and the overall herd seems to be doing better than the Calm Lake area- time will tell.

Actions have consequences.


If I smashed my truck into somethimg because I didnt see a stop sign I would expected to pay for damages.

$6000 seems about right for damages and precedence.

How do you mistake a elk for a deer.....twice????

Lady sure got an education.

As dumb as a mistake as it was, it was still a mistake. She turned herself in and she learned her lesson without the fine. I think enforcement needs to realize their number one job...leading education. I draw a line for those crimes driven by lack of education and those that completely disregard the law.

I think her fine should only be for one and likely the outcome should it go before the judge. Frankly the state should let her pay off her fine by doing a few promotional videos on identifying the differences between the species and the consequences of mistaken identity. Instead of running her away from hunting, use her story to help those that come after her.

For those slamming her, she is an honest person that made a mistake and you guys want to throw the book at her, while in the real world we have real criminals that commit real crimes who just get their wrists slapped by a judge only to out and do it again. I think this brining elk back to WI is big waste of money to begin with.

My take is that there are two schools of thought and neither is wrong. Precedence needs to be set for others, criminals and accidental shooters, but yes that fine is very heavy. Regardless, this is why knowing your target and quarry is so important and must be preached. She did major damage to a herd that is already challenged.

If we could manage the wolf population, the elk reintroduction would be a great wildlife success story. There is plenty of forest land in the northern half of the state for elk.

I wonder how much the fine the wolves for killing an elk? Just think, they don't even buy a license.

Garry-

NATIONAL
Texas poacher fined $53,000 for killing elk in Colorado backyards, officials say. This level of fine is not unprecedented in teh wildlife world anymore. Seems $6000.00 I still think her fine is cheap.

I was doing a little more thinking on this. At our school we used to have an honesty clause in our extra-curricular code. If you did something wrong and turned yourself in you have a 2/3 reduction in your consequence. What we learned was only those caught dead to rights and were going to be turned in, in some fashion turned themselves in. Shooting two elk is not something she was going to get away with so turning yourself in and hoping it helps would make sense.

Gee, why didn't they just give her life in prison and $1,000,000 fine to that?

Take her hunting priviledges for 10 years and say a $1000.00 fine. That would have been enough for most.

Its all about recouping as much money from a person that the state can get.

Did they take her gun, vehicle and home also?

So the next WOLF that catches and kills an elk will get the death sentence...….YES!


What would a person from any other state want to hunt in Colorado when something like this is imposed. Liberal DNR there. ALL about $$$$$$$$$$

I'll bet if she would declared that she was a lesbian and wanted to show that lesbian could shoot an animal, they would have paid her doing nuisance work.

Garry-

Levy fines like that and soon there will be a whole lot more people who might consider the possibility or weigh the risks of shooting the game warden too, to prevent loss of everything.

Interesting. Too bad my father didn't hear about this when I was a youngster. A reduction of 2/3 in the spankings I received would have been welcomed. 'Course I'd have to 'fess up to the crime first. Hmmm . . .

How many elk are killed by the wolves up there? 2 a day? 2 a week? 2 a month?

Does this woman deserve a punishment? Sure. But crucifying her for a mistake she owned up to? Meanwhile the state and federal government are doing nothing about the real symptom behind dwindling elk numbers.

I think everyone's ire could be better directed at the real killer of elk.

A suitable punishment to me would be...

• $1000 fine per elk

• Loss of hunting privileges for 2 years

• Mandate she take hunter education again with special emphasis on wildlife ID

• Some kind of community service that would benefit F&G

Mike

WI state law sets the minimum fine for killing an elk without valid authorization at 2000$. I dono where the other 2000$ comes from,( my guess would be for killing an animal out of season/ without proper authorization)

The dnr doesn't determin what is right or wrong for this individual case. She broke the law, the law and its punishment is already written. It may be more harsh than she deserves, but that is for a judge/jury to decide.

Wish people would remember how the judicial system worked before they bash an agency that has nothing to do with setting punishment.

Big differance between dnr wardens and the department heads that are appointed by legislators, even if they are all DNR to you.


Edit:
Wi state law for killing an elk out of season without autherization is a minimum 1000$ fine.

Sporting violations here can go up to $25,000.
Fines for commercial violations(selling stuff illegally) are a lot higher-start at $100,000 +.

Goes back to basic hunter safety. Be sure of your target, and what you are hunting. If you don't know the difference between a bull elk and a buck deer, stay out of the woods. You don't ever shot at a patch of hair or color! Don't feel sorry for the amount of fines applied to this individual.

Here's the 3rd Bull to die from this herd:"

An elk was found dead Jan. 2 in northern Wisconsin after it ate corn put out by a landowner in a misguided attempt to help wildlife, according to the Department of Natural Resources.

The animal died from rumen acidosis, a direct result from eating the corn.

How much are they going to fine that landowner?

Gruesome picture

Died from too much corn?

Landowner likely poisoned them on purpose. Tired of them busting fences and tearing down hay stacks

Thats likely too

Yup- Rumen Acidois

Wisconsin elk law violations = 1st offence - 1,000 not to excess 15,000 - 2 nd offence not to excess 20,000. I'd say she got a pretty good break on potential fines; for self reporting.

Those Elk are costing the Taxpayers more than they know.

This country is going down the toilet.

Corn will also kill deer during the winter.
Part way down in this article it explains why.
https://www.farmanddairy.com/columns/feeding-corn-to-deer-could-be-death-sentence/14324.html

Ill read that Mark!!!

Does the word poaching come to anyone’s mind?

Dairy farmers are concerned about rumen acidosis all the time. Too much corn without adequate fiber creates too much acid in the rumen that can exist at a limited level and be chronic or as in this case it can be acute. Corn is relatively low cost and available and with a huge switch to corn silage over grass and legumes monitoring for this condition is continuous. Low level signs are lowered butterfat, loose manure and pasty manure and hoof ailments with the acid conditions causing rupturing of blood vessels in the hoof. In feed lots where more corn, sorghum and other high energy grains are fed heavily the rations are mixed to get enough fiber in the animals to keep the 4 guts working and gain more weight, but almost all of the organ meat such as kidneys and liver are full of abscesses and thus unfit for human consumption. I don't know if it is hormonal from day length or other factors but something changes the metabolism in Cervids regarding how feedstuffs are metabolized and low fiber diets can be an issue as the gut system may not have the bacteria and protozoa to break down the high energy feedstuff. There also may be far less bacteria in the rumen if metabolism has changed and thus the released acids can not be broken down or at least not fast enough. We have to remember that animals with rumens use feedstuffs to create bacteria and protozoa and the animal actually digests the bugs in the 4th stomach and small intestines to get the complete protein that is needed.

Bryce

Bryce,
Good input- winters can be harsh also. I worry during years like this when we have a major snowfall early, the browse line is high because of the snow base and then we get a major thaw leaving most nutritional browse out of reach. We still have a lot of standing corn in the fields this year, hopefully that won't be a factor as we get closer to spring.

Do they not grab a bolus sometimes from a doner and use it to stimulate the gut?