TEACHERS

First this state is broke plain and simple. Budget is a mess. But my question has to do with teachers pay.How is increasing teacher pay going to improve education in this state? Going by the grading scales they use for teachers we have some of the worst . Not saying they are all bad but why isn't there some standard for teachers to be held to. Around here if they get into trouble instead of being fired they get moved to a different school. Rant over.

They call that Tenure. Stupidest thing I’ve ever heard. If me or you suck at our job we are fired, not them.

Thank your strong unions for buying the politicians off. We have alot of the same problems in this state That is why we pulled our kids and home/ charter schooled them.

Teachers have one of the most important jobs in the world. There are a lot of great teachers who won't, or can not afford to be teachers for the pisspoor wages they get. There are a lot of teachers who do it because its important and they want to make a difference, but the best ones often advance into other positions where they can make more money. If teachers were paid like they should be, there would a bunch more of them to choose from = better teachers teaching your kids. IMO the teachers are not the ones to blame for your child's poor performance.

How much should a teacher make? They get off quite a bit. I knew a guy who went to college to be a teacher. Said he didnt want to work hard in life. I figured if they make over 35 grand a year here that's fair.

My sister had a teacher this year ask for everyone's preferred pronouns.

If you crunch the numbers nationwide, you'll find teachers are paid quite well. It drives me nuts when politicians use that worn-out "invest in education" trope. We've put too much money into a system that systematically set out to undermine America.

It's never ending .... I'll get kicked off here if I start pointing out facts

Well said ADC.

There are definitely good ones out there that go above and beyond. They have to deal with a lot more BS than you imagine whether its the kids, parents, school board, or the state. Makes it hard to keep the good ones around when they could go get an office job with less stress for the same money or better.

I happen to be married to a dedicated 1st grade teacher. Comes home exhausted, worries about her kids' home lives, gets bugged by parents after hours, pays for a lot of extra things that the school won't.....the list goes on......but she loves the kids and knows she is making a difference.

I got her an apple watch for christmas. Keeps stats on your daily exercise. She walks anywhere from 4-5 miles a day in her classroom because she is involved.

I'm proud of her. But she may be the exception. I know there are teachers that just go through the motions and it drives her bonkers.

Base pay for beginning teachers is 56,000 with senior teachers with extra credentials make 108,242. This for Chicago districts.

You have no idea how many hours a good teacher put in in a year. I do. $35k is a kick in the nuts. It's not about the hours or physical work they do anyway.

........and if she wanted to I would gladly let her look for a different job. I'm not happy with the way our school board and administration treats their teachers.

I wouldn't teach in Chicago for that. There aren't many that will and that is why they have to pay so much to get teachers to risk their lives in that hood to even get to work, let alone teach those intercity kids.

Cost of living in those big cities is also very high.

Amen -- Posco. I come from a long line of teachers on both sides of my family, and it was one of the hardest decisions i have had to make (pulling my kids out ) There are some very good teachers and very bad ones -- all they have to do is behave themselves for a couple of years and then they are almost imposible to get rid of. And like ADC pointed out times have changed ( that is the main reason for my parents getting out of teaching). Teachers are unable to discipline their students and (some) are being forced to teach wacked out stuff (others are teaching their wacked out beliefs and not teachingwhat they should be). I believe that if you spent time in the classroom you would find that not much time is spent "teaching" most of it is spent "babysitting".

Yep horrible graduation rates , and yet notorious for going on strike for more money

Good morning,
I am a teacher. I was tenured in Hawaii and that tenure let me be a good teacher in a poor performing school. By that I mean that I was able to do hands-on lessons involving mechanics, craftsmanship, and hunter education as part of my history curriculum. The school was in restructuring and everyone was told to follow the same script. They literally handed teachers a script. I modified it and had I not been tenured they would have canned me. That is the point of tenure, for good teachers to have some freedom to do what they are great at.

To address wages, when I was teaching in Hawaii, I also had 2 other jobs. The cost of living in Hawaii is ridiculous and they pay teachers pretty poorly. I don't know what its like where you are at but I can only relate my experiences.

A couple years ago I moved back to the great state of Alaska, where they recognize, and pay me for my doctorate degree, they transferred in my years of service from Hawaii, and they pay nearly double. I kill or grow most of my food and work in a remote village full of amazing kids who's parents hold them to extremely high standards. The free market is a beautiful thing, If teachers can make more and live more comfortably somewhere else they will go there. That is the primary argument for increasing wages, keeping the good ones and recruiting more.

Yes there are teachers who abuse tenure, There are a bunch of teachers who never make tenure because they get canned before they get there because they are not good at their job. Even after tenure there are systems in place to remove them or push out bad teachers, moving to another school is often the last step before removal.


This is a bit long winded and informally written, but perhaps this provides a bit of perspective.

The saddest part of what you stated is that for some families, school is where the kids learn discipline.

Yep horrible graduation rates , and yet notorious for going on strike for more money

I didn't say there weren't good ones . But it seems they have to be held to some kind of standard don't they? If you don't get your job done anywhere else you get fired but around here if you fail as a teacher you get moved or do even worse, you have the union fighting for you . On the locale news a teacher is caught on a cell phone camera dragging a special needs child around the halls on the floor . Fired? No just moved to a non teaching position. But some how money is the answer?

You are correct. Imagine, as bad as it is in a small school district, how bad it would be in Chicago, yet people blame the teachers. You can not teach kids while you are dealing with the problem kids, and there are a bunch of them. You can't just kick them out or expel them these days either. You got kids throwing huge fits, fighting, cussing, totally disrupting the class, etc... and all you can do is be nice to them and wait until they calm down. No child left behind. This doesn't happen in other countries, you see its a lot easier to get a higher grade point average and such if you can weed out all the stupid and disruptive kids like they do in many other countries.

Entitlement mentality

Good thing not all teachers are like that , still some good ones left

My wife started out her professional career as a teacher, but being fresh out of college, she found herself teaching kids who weren't that much younger than she was. She shifted gears and went into social services and has been there ever since. Another career choice that doesn't lend itself to being politically conservative.

I understand why some people recoil at the idea that a lot of Americans are tired of having their kids politically indoctrinated by people they assumed they could trust. We should be able to put our heads on our pillows and sleep soundly at night knowing our kids are being well cared for. That's not the case. That's what happens when you politicize education.

My kids went to both public and church schools depending on what our situation happened to be at the time. More than once I had my young daughter question me on why her teacher/teachers tried to undermine what we were trying to instill in them at home. We weren't experiencing an anomaly, many Americans have become more aware of it.

I dont know how many hours they put in. How many hours on average a year are you saying they put in?

Normal full time is 2000 hrs

Teacher 3/4 time 1500 hrs

But, if you don't know the circumstances that lead to this... If that kids screams at you and spits in your face, then started hitting you, how would you react? I doubt the kid was just setting there behaving themselves. Kids do this stuff all the time in our little 400 kid school district in rural Iowa. I mean at least two or three incidences per day. Imagine how much worse it would be in low income areas where there are way more of these type kids per capita.

Not that it matters, because as I said hours are not the issue, but my wife gets to the school at 7 and leaves around 4 pm. She then spends at least 1 1/2 but of times more hours per night on school work so 10 1/2 - 12 hours a day. She spends at least two weeks a year, usually more, on continued education (required), which we have to pay for and at lest a week of the year at conferences and things of that sort. That said, she gets paid pretty well for her work these days, but its because she had done it for 22+ years and has her masters degree and special endorsements.

Teachers put in more time than just the hours during the school is in session. They grade papers at home in the evening. They work with students after hours. During the summer they attend enrichment programs and other courses to stay current in their field.

Not all teachers do that but the good ones do.

In my opinion, teaching is a full time job. I appreciate the good ones out there.

rex i can guarrantee you that money is not the answer -- like so many other issues ( drug use, homlessness, mental health, healthcare, gangs, murder ) the true problems are not being dealt with so it is easier to throw a little money that direction and hope that some if it does some good( or stops the screaming for a few minutes). All of these problems are complex and could not be fixed overnight no matter what anyone did. I know from my personal experiences of trying to work within the school framework is frustrating and most often wasted time -- even for someone that had their grandmother for a teacher at the same school their kids were going to. That is why i pulled my kids -- they still had alot of their friends they met with on a regular basis and the differences in the knowledge between the home/charter schoolers and the public is amazing. And my kids knew which bathroom to use.

It's every job some make two much some not enough unfortunly it's not devised equal. But most jobs if you're not happy there's some one else that would love to have it.

"Here" teachers are the highest paid of anywhere,.. and they still claim if only they were paid more they would be better teachers.
There are good teachers, my daughter is one, she now lives where teachers are NOT the highest paid in the universe, unfortunately, and yes there are a lot of lousy teachers who no matter how much money you throw at them would still be lousy teachers....

Whats the answer? I don't know, but putting up with these entitled brats has to be a no win situation that money ain't gonna fix.

I moved form a coastal county in N.C. that had very high real estate prices and very little affordable housing for entry level teachers. As older married teachers retired, it was almost impossible to find a beginning teacher who could move to the county. Many young teachers left the occupation and became waitresses in fine restaurants, where they made more money.

I winter months they draw unemployment and travel to Costa Rica to surf. Go figure.

My dad, who was a 6th grade graduate, made it clear to me that my teachers all deserved my respect. But he also stressed that they are not always right just because they are a teacher. He always encouraged me to contest anything that did not pass the smell test.....but do so politely.

My wife teaches, she grades papers and make lesson plans, figuring out projects for the kids, teaches spark classes before school and sponsors a high school dance line. That’s all on her time! Not counting teaching her regular class. She works 7 days a week and don’t get to bed before 11pm. Now ,she teaches at a small country school , but, the work is still there!!

Lots of good things above but for me it is mostly about what happens at home.

Immigrants have come to the us for years and have flourished in our system.

To many people who let the public schools raise their kids.

Pete

I have to agree there are a lot of good teachers out there. I live in a small town, I see the teacher pass my home every morning, and a short time later the school buses come by, not far behind the teachers. Late afternoon I see the buses heading out with the kids and a very short time later here come the teachers. The students year is 183 days a year. I think a teacher is a few more days along with Teacher Student conferences that is outside the 183 day. My question IF the State School Board say the school you has to have 183 days of instruction why do they have snow day, last we had 10 snow days. Gal across said she want to be a teacher because she would get the summer off. But like I have said there are good and bad teacher, just like good fur buyers and bad fur buyers. JMO

I believe this!

X2- ADC and for whom pointed at unions its got nothing to do with unions its this political correctness that does it no lawsuits no punishment just move on become someone elses problem

Well son,the world needs ditch diggers too.

Volunteer as a teacher assistant for a week at an elementary school and then make your judgment calls.
My wife was a teacher for over ten years, my kids now grown say they barely spent any time with her as they grew up. I barely saw her myself as she would get up at 4:am to make lesson plans, grade papers ect and call it quits at 11:pm every day throughout the school year. In the summer as there were training seminars and classroom teardown for deep cleaning then classroom set up.
The mental anguish she had from parents and guardians that would not even show up for the required senior presentations which required a parent or guardian present. Teachers would have to volunteer to fill in for the absentees.

I am so happy she switched jobs, oh and the pay wasn't that great either. I won't criticize and judge another person's career unless I actually do it to know what they actually do.

My mom taught public school in the same town for 45 years and retired at 70. She walked to work every day. Upon her retirement, she immediately went to the community college and was hired to teach adult reading. On her first evening of adult reading, an elderly man brought his Bible to class and wanted to learn to read it. She stopped at age 85. Said her back bothered her and she could not bend over a student's desk to help them any longer.

Spot on ADC! I’m always disappointed when I see the occasional “bashing teachers” thread.

If your students know your political ideology, your a crappy teacher. There are a lot of crappy teachers indoctrinating our youth, infecting their young minds with liberalism.

Cathode Jim
I wonder if the teacher that took your wives job is happy or complaining. Starting sallery would be less I'm guessing? Not trying to argue but like i said before someone else may be thrilled to have it.

Lugnut and if they are indoctrinating them with Conservatism is that ok then?

I am very pleased with the education my sons received in their public school. The oldest earned his masters last May and is making over 100K in the medical field(PA). He did very well in a very demanding major.
A couple of his High school buddies have been bouncing from job to job and are constantly whining that their poor education is what holding them back. Their parents bash the school too.
These young men had every opportunity that my sons all did.
My two younger boys are also doing very well with their college pursuits. Their teachers played a huge part in that.

I was talking to one of the guy's father a couple years ago. He said he couldn't believe kids could afford college or even trade school. This guy bought his kids ATVs, pickups when they turned 16, and never made the kid hold a job, even during summer breaks. My sons worked at least part time since they turned 16.

Most of a kids education is like everything else in real life-you get out of it what you put into it. If the kid hears his parent constantly blame the school system for his problems, he gets a different kind of education that often follows him through life........ Very often, a poorly educated kid is a poorly parented kid too.

Teach your kids a work ethic and expect them to do their part in everything they do. Teach them to listen to the opinions of others, but be sure they know that they must do their own thinking. When they get a little older don't be too disappointed if the see things differently than you do. It could just mean you did a good job. And do not teach them to look for somebody else to blame when the come up short. Not accepting responsibility may be American's biggest problem in more than just education..

Nope. Go back and read the first sentence. The one where I said, "If your students know your political ideology, your a crappy teacher. "

This is one of the biggest lies told by some of folks who call themselves conservatives. I hear the talking heads on foxnews say similar things every day. The last thing most of this type want is an educated populous-they are threatened by anyone who does not believe all they believe themselves.

Sorry grackle, I'm not taking the bait.

sent you a pm regarding your son that is a pm - my daughter is looking into that.

You are so wrong on so many levels. You can't put a time frame on the hours they work. Yes if you are talking about the pe teacher that leaves before the bell rang. Then has NO papers to grade because tossing a ball up in the air and bouncing on one leg is not a class. It's pretty obvious the PE teachers are failing because of all the FAT kids running around.
My wife taught HIGH SCHOOL algebra for 29 years. I saw the late nights grading exams for 300 students. The countless hours making lesson plans. With all the kids and parents blaming the teachers because their einsteins can't pass a common exam she retired . Started teaching at a local college . TOTALLY different. The students want to be there not forced.
AS for pay ,with the amount of college she had to take in order to work her way up the pay scale ANY job in the private sector would have paid double. Triple? Sky the limit. But she wanted to help kids to succeed and make a difference . Then it felt like the kids no longer wanted to work for their success they expected it because of whom their parents where.

ONE BIG problem is as the older teachers retire the learning values go with them. You must remember that the "entitled" generation are the ones filling these openings. Sense of pride and ambition are going away as the kid that finishes last will get the same trophy/ diploma as the one that finishes first ............. And if you say anything to the kid that is lazy and doesn't put forth any effort then you are bulling them!!!!


Jesus wept ......................

Dang ! 300 students , she is prolly an exception then

Most would cry a river a mile long with half that

I don't know about that, every school has teachers with opinions and them teachers past the opinion on the the students, That's a fact. You dont think all the liberal thought just came to the kids by them selves do you? It isn't just political stuff even animal related. You can bet that alot of the major schools are pushing kids to help animals when they can. If they can put a soft spot in there heart. It will be that much easier to get them to vote to end trapping and hunting. Surely you can see that

A teaching degree is the easiest college degree to get and the people getting them have below average SAT scores. At or near the bottom. Hard to soar like an eagle when your workforce are turkeys.

My favorite is when people say they are glorified baby sitters and should be payed like it. I agree. Average babysitter gets payed what, $20 a night.

So lets say teachers should get $30 a day for "babysitting each kid. Say they have 18 kids on average. That's $540 a day. With 175ish working days that's $94,500 a year.

So for those that say they get payed plenty, pull your head out of your rear end. My wife teaches, I have a teaching degree but chose to do something else. WAY more work than most people could understand.

Same here. A friend pointed this out to me one day , look at your local town/city budget. About 60%-65% of the the budget goes to the schools , the lion's share. However , look closely to the other side of the budget , everything else. There is usually debt or other things directly related to the schools , maybe funds for a new parking lot at a school or roof repair. Now figuring in that , the school system is getting 70%-75% of the budget. But they always want more.

Good teachers are rare and worth praise , most good ones leave for better jobs. I would not want to be one nowadays , the inmates are running the asylum.

It all depends on where you live. My neighbor's son is a teacher at a state trade school , does drafting CAD/CAM. Also coaches after school hours for extra pay. He makes $140k

Didn't start this to bash teachers,even said there are good ones but I still don't see how giving someone more money makes them better at what they do. They are either good at it or not . The kids are for the most part in need of a swift kick. But once again how is giving a teacher more money going to change that in any way? They decided to be a teacher like every where else do it or leave. Find something you will enjoy .As you all have said you can't be staying for the money, union protection or early retirement.

I'll bet he was a good man. One of my favorite teachers was also my grade school principal and I loved the guy. He's gone now but I still interact with his kids on FB. They must cringe when they see me attacking the educational establishment and mistakenly think I'm attacking their father. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Yea her school went to 7 period days . Plus she taught ACT testing after school 3 days a week and during the summer. Plus the cut back on math teachers to make room for the new football coaches wife a art job !!!
Kids need 4 math classes to graduate so ALL had to have lots of math classes

I'm old enough to remember corporal punishment in school. I received it on occasion.

I lived for 6 months in Texas as a child , my dad had to go there for his job for 6 months. They had corporal punishment there but not in my home state.

I was a GOOD kid for 6 months.

I have learned a lot about people by being married to a teacher. The biggest thing is that parents are much less involved with their kids. Most don’t have a clue what goes on in school and what their kids should be learning, until there is a problem. The school is a babysitter, then they come home and technology entertains them. Repeat repeat repeat. Blame school and teacher for the problems.

I would challenge anyone with young kids to get more involved. Pay attention to them. Work with them on their education. Encourage them. Teach them accountability. AND a parent should also accept some responsibility for their failures. They learn by example. We all do

I wouldn't want to be a Teacher in public schools though!

[
I don't know about that, every school has teachers with opinions and them teachers past the opinion on the the students, That's a fact. You dont think all the liberal thought just came to the kids by them selves do you? It isn't just political stuff even animal related. You can bet that alot of the major schools are pushing kids to help animals when they can. If they can put a soft spot in there heart. It will be that much easier to get them to vote to end trapping and hunting. Surely you can see that [/quote]

I would bet that most of what is blamed on the teachers is actually things kids learn from all the time the spend on youtube, social media, tv, their friends, and their parents.

I think this is a very accurate perspective. I've been teaching at a public school for 11 years and I'm always interested in reading these "TEACHERS" or "education" threads. It's interesting to hear everyone's perspectives looking from the inside out. In the end what it really comes down to for the bashers of education is simply walking the walk. We hear complaints and rumors all the time about what education is, isn't, or should be. If you really want to know then come into the schools and see for yourself! Like Jim said, volunteer in an elementary school for a few days. Go into a classroom and monitor the "liberal filth" that is being spewed from teachers. I invite any parent, family member, friend, volunteer, ect. that passes a background check (yes classroom volunteers must pass a background check) to come into my room at any time to help out or just sit and listen. If you want to know your local public schools salary schedule, look it up or go in and ask the school. This is public information. Instead of ranting about your local school or getting your knowledge from CNN or Fox News, do yourself a favor and don't talk like you know the facts. Go into a school and get first-hand knowledge of what's going on in your neck of the woods.

One last thing that maybe hasn't been mentioned in regards to teacher pay. If you want to make more money as a teacher, you need to invest in more schooling. Maybe people are aware of this but sometimes I get the impression that most people don't understand this. Yes, teachers are required to complete continuing education hours each year to keep their teaching license but above and beyond that, almost all salary scales are tied to years of service as well as advanced degrees and additional graduate credits. My starting salary 11 years ago was $31,000. In order to advance laterally on our salary schedule, I needed to pay $15,000 out of pocket, go back to school for approximately 800 hours (35 graduate credits), and complete a capstone. Now that I'm at an Master's Degree level, I will need to go back to school for an additional $10,000, 720 hours, and 30 credits. Essentially I'll have 8 years of post secondary schooling and $25,000 invested into bumping up my wage. When it's all said and done I could potentially make $70,000 at the very bottom, right-hand corner of our salary schedule (after 30 years of teaching).

My wife is a first grade teacher in a low income school in a housing project. She has been teaching for 23 years. She is a very good teacher but she works hard every day. She arrives at school 2.5 hours early every day and still does some work at home. She buys most of her supplies and has a personal collection of over a thousand children’s books. She has bought Christmas presents, winter coats and blankets for some of her students. We have even coached cross country running at the school in an effort to teach the kids some life lessons. She does all this, every day, despite the treatment she receives from the school district, school specialists and especially the parents. The last few years, the world has lost its mind. She has kids throwing books, tipping desks, hitting and kicking kids AND adults. My wife has been hit, foot stomped, screamed at and spit on. Lately, she has been potty train kids too. Remember, these kids are 6 years old! I couldn’t do what she does for three times the money
It irritates me when people bash teachers. Yes, they have summers off. Yes, there are bad teachers. Yes, they sometimes go on strike. All I ask is that you look at your own professions. I’m sure you will all say the same. There are always good and bad employees. It’s not just teachers
God bless all you good teachers! You are far better people than I am.

X2

My 4 kids had a couple

We moved once and then pulled them .... private church school after that.

Then in college one of mine got infected...liberal ideology

Why do people form unions? To set the price of labor above the free market rate.

Many teachers and school administrators also push an anti-gun/anti-hunting agendas.

My wife has taught in a rural Illinois community for 25 years. She averages way over 40 hours a week during the school year and probably 15 hours a week in her “off time” during the summer. She has a masters degree plus 24 credit hours. She loves to teach, that is her passion that is the only reason she stays teaching. Her pay is terrible and most of the parents spend more time on Facebook then they do parenting. I will just leave it at that. One question what should pay more a starting out teacher or a prison guard with no college education ?

My wife teaches kindergarten and what you said is exactly what I was going to type. If you want the the school's to improve then get the state out of it. The only thing that matters to them and the school districts is numbers and testing. It seems like everyday that there making her test the kids instead of teaching something. My wife also makes sure that the kids who dont get to eat on the weekends have food that she she puts in there book bags. Theres bad apples in every profession. But I get so sick in tired of hearing it's the unions fault etc. Btw with my wifes new union contract and the cost of insurance she lost 50.00 a week.

Let me correct that for ya. Most teachers work way more than 40 hrs per week. Meetings, grading, lesson plans nights and weekends. Plus it's not 3 months off for most. More like right around 9 weeks once done cleaning out classroom before time to set it back up for the next school year. They are significantly under paid. And like what others have said, increasing pay to be competitive with other states helps attract young new ones and retain the good ones.

I too am tired of the Teacher bashing threads that pop up here from time to time. I have worked in Green Bay at a public school for 25 years. Today was a typical day: 10 hour day, one of my students is being trafficked into the sex trade (15 year old) police are investigating, graded 100 essays, wrote a recommendation to the New York Times for a scholarship for one of my advanced students, taught class for six hours, attended an hour long meeting about a special education student, met with a student to provide one on one instruction after school and got things ready to teach 125 students tomorrow.

Please don't tell me that I am overpaid and overworked. There are a lot more jobs that I could make more money in but I enjoy what I do - helping the youth.

Brian

PS. I have deer hunting pictures in my classroom and have donated mounts of every fur bearer I have caught to the science department.

In conclusion: A teacher attends a university and has the free will to chose any major and chooses education. (One of the easiest majors) Then most join a union to negotiate their wages above what the free market would pay for an easy major and somehow they end up underpaid for their profession?

Lol. I used to walk to school in the snow 5 miles up hill both ways

My numbers are averages , just like many in the private sector work way more than 2000 hrs , including myself


Let's take a look at it

In a single year teachers I know have the following off

1 week @ Thanksgiving
1 week spring break
2 weeks @ Christmas
10 weeks summer vaca
5 paid sick days
5 paid personal days
All fed gov holidays
Several snow days not all are made up at the end of the year
Every Wednesday of every week my son gets early release at 1:30 so teachers can have personal time
He also has several days off for teacher in-service days where they teach no one


Now do the math if you dare

Hey, it only takes 4 years of college. and tens of thousands of dollars to get one of these cushy jobs.
Earn your masters during your first few years, and get 40 hours of continuing ed per year, every year, and the state lets you keep your certificate current......piece of cake.
I think most would be surprised at the work that goes into teaching and how little liberal indoctrination goes on. You should not allow yourself to be misinformed by some of the "fake news" media outlets.

Let's take a look at it

In a single year teachers I know have the following off

1 week @ Thanksgiving
1 week spring break
2 weeks @ Christmas
10 weeks summer vaca
5 paid sick days
5 paid personal days
All fed gov holidays
Several snow days not all are made up at the end of the year
Every Wednesday of every week my son gets early release at 1:30 so teachers can have personal time
He also has several days off for teacher in-service days where they teach no one


Now do the math if you dare[/quote]


Thurs Friday off for Thanksgiving
1 Week Spring Break
1 Week Christmas
6 Weeks Summer
10 Days ( 8 sick / 2 Personal) - Maximum cap on days 100. Anything over turned back which most teachers do every year.
Federal Holidays
1 snow day (Everything else is made up)
1 Day a month Staff Development ( Teacher Training)

Standard 5 Day weeks = 36 @ 55 hours a week = 1,980 hours

4 Additional weeks of Summer School @ 20 hours a Week = 80 hours

Minimum of 2,060 hours (Additional hours for licensing not included)

Amazing Woman!!!

In KY. this year. Teachers protesting against pension reform. They were promised what they had would be honored but new teachers would be put on a 401k plan. Union stepped in and said not fair.Even though most people have one. Also chanted we love our kids give us more money so we can do our job. Not more money for the schools but for us. Please one of you saying I or anyone else is bashing teachers explain how this helps schools .Also don't forget we get to retire after 20 years. How can any state afford this and still provide services to the rest of their people?

Are you not paid extra for summer school ? Green bay

Are you a math teacher ?

Teachers wages should have almost nothing to do with the number of hours they work. The training, skill, and ability needed to do the job should determine wages. Good teachers DO NOT make enough money. Like has been said there are a few bad teachers, there are bad trappers, farmers, truck drivers, lawyers, bankers, bad everything, but as a whole teachers are probably way ahead of most of the rest in the the % of good vs. bad. They are all handicapped by the rules and regulations of public schools. I guarantee the bashers here do not go to the schools and have no idea what it really entails. If you think its remotely the same now as it was 20-50 years ago when you went to school, you are sadly mistaken.

For those of you that have no respect for teachers, why would a student respect them if you don’t.

Same as law enforcement and military. Under appreciated. People wonder why the world is the way it is and like to point the finger. Do some self reflecting

Going to have to agree with gryhkl here.


Now let’s talk about nurses and how terrible they are.

Spot on! Teachers know by the kids parents what kind of student the kid will be about 95% of the time. Funny how so, so often the parents who had trouble in school, have kids that have trouble in school.

Seems that way quite often with the ones who didn't get along with the law too.

Thurs Friday off for Thanksgiving
1 Week Spring Break
1 Week Christmas
6 Weeks Summer
10 Days ( 8 sick / 2 Personal) - Maximum cap on days 100. Anything over turned back which most teachers do every year.
Federal Holidays
1 snow day (Everything else is made up)
1 Day a month Staff Development ( Teacher Training)

Standard 5 Day weeks = 36 @ 55 hours a week = 1,980 hours

4 Additional weeks of Summer School @ 20 hours a Week = 80 hours

Minimum of 2,060 hours (Additional hours for licensing not included)[/quote]


Why only 6 weeks for summer break ? Are you counting summer school twice ?

I would like to also point out, that teaching can be very mentally draining. It isn’t easy to get up and teach the curriculum every day, while ensuring that you cover everything and make sure the students are engaged.

Maybe there is a lack of respect for teachers by their students, because over half their students are probably smarter than most of their teachers? You know, since education majors score bottom of SATs.

I would challenge anyone who is not a teacher to volunteer, or become a substitute teacher for 1 day, then come back and comment on this thread.
I have the opportunity to do fur/wildlife presentations several times a year in my local schools and honestly after a hr or so I’m whipped and frustrated. The lack of respect is astonishing even on really young kids.

No one is disrespecting good teachers. But people seem to be avoiding the questions that have been asked . Taking money away from other areas in a state and raising taxes to give teachers more money how does that improve education ? No answer. Why can't new teachers be put on a 401k? No answer when a teacher doesn't do the job they were hired for why can't they be fired? no answer. Someone is bringing the police and firefighter into this. Okay they are being screwed because all the money is going to teachers and yet KY. schools are near the bottom in everything. Also the ones that are fighting the hardest in these threads are people who have someone who teaches and brings in half or more of there family income.

Must have had 50-60 different teachers in my school career,All were good teachers.but none were the same.Some were strict,some laid back,but all were good teachers.We got strapped by the Principal,not by the teacher.
When my kids were going to public school I noticed the teachers were very different from ones I had.My kids liked all their teachers.I noticed My kids teachers spent considerable more time volunteering for extra curricular activities for the kids than they did when I went to school.
None of my kids got strapped at school-no strapping allowed when my kids went to school.

Children should respect teachers for sure
Teachers around here any way should be payed more.
However it is just a job, if'n you don't like it , quit, if it don't pay enough, quit, if you don't feel appreciated enough, quit.
People should quit trying to make this more than a job, because it does come with a paycheck, in the agreed on amount, on the agreed upon day.

Fantastic reply! Yes, Yes, and Yes.

Why would ones profession dictate the level of respect ?

Shouldn't respect be earned by the person and not granted by the job they chose ?

POS 's in all professions aren't there ?

My mother, wife, son and daughter were/ are teachers. They all cared about their students and were worth every penny they were paid. Most on this site wouldn’t last one day in a classroom without begging to go back to their previous job.

LOL YOU ARE SMOKING DOPE. EASY??? !!! My wife is a double major in mathematics and accounting. 7-12. I'll send you some of the work from her MATH college classes then you get back to me on how easy it is for HER major.

BUT elementary PE maybe.

20 years? What school system you in. Better look again. 27 years with limited benefits. 30 years full retirement. The strike was because the STATE law makers had pulled out of the retirement account and then announced they couldn't fund the system. IF they had just left THE TEACHERS money alone no one could have complained/ BUT they used it to pad their salaries and fund special interest groups!!!!!!

The only thing you can get after 20 years is paid health ins and if you are not 55 you can't draw a penny of retirement. PLUS ins is NOT paid in full still cost you 168 dollars a month or 861 for a family plan.....

So what you are saying is wife didn't chose an education major? Pay Attention! Google "Easiest college majors"

P.S. We will trade, she sends me some math and I'll send her some of my physics homework.

Haha I had to laugh at the 20 year thing too, Jbyrd. No teachers I know are going to be able to retire even after 30 years of teaching. Especially since Rule of 90 is now gone. I highly doubt I'll be able to retire before age 64 based on the current pension we have. That would put me at 41 years of teaching.

To answer your original question Rex, it's quite simple. If you want qualified teachers educating your child for 2,000 hours each year, you need to pay them well enough to stay in the profession. Are you always satisfied with the service and competency of fast food joint employees? Why am I always one fry short and left without ketchup from my Happy Meal? Because this level of employee is the best they can get for the money they pay their employees. If you're dissatisfied with the education system now, go ahead and cut wages, benefits, etc. and see what sort of riffraff teachers you get to take the job. The truth is teachers will spend more time with kids 9 months out of the year than these kids parents will spend with them. What's wrong with compensating teachers to be motivated and appreciated for raising the next generation?

Dirt, you aren't wrong in saying that an education major is one of the easiest to obtain but there is a reason for it. I'm not saying I agree with the reason because it makes a bad name for teachers, especially those who have continued their education and gone above and beyond to be better teachers. However, the reason is that there is a shortage of teachers. Minnesota used to be a destination state for education and the competitiveness for teaching jobs used to reflect that. When I began applying for jobs in 2009, it wasn't uncommon to have over 300 applicants for any given elementary teaching position. One school I received an interview at had nearly 600 applicants. This past year the school that I currently work at had two elementary teacher openings. We had 5 applicants. Imagine the drop in qualification that a school is getting when they go from 600 to 5 applicants.
Heck, not only is education now an easier college pathway but our state even lowered it's standards for qualification and licensure because they couldn't get enough qualified teachers applying for jobs. This is quite a dramatic change from only 10 years ago when education was a competitive field. Any idea why nobody wants to teach anymore?

Also Dirt, the union doesn't negotiate our wages. Teachers vote to form a committee of fellow teachers from the district that negotiate (with district administration and school board) for all teachers in the district. My wife has been a negotiator for the past two negotiation cycles (every 2 years). She was paid $6/hour for this job. Each district negotiates their salary schedule. Some districts are able to negotiate a 4% increase in salary per year, other districts go on a salary freeze for a couple years. So in a sense this is free market. If I don't like my districts salary scale, I can go down the road to the next district that will pay me $10,000/ year more.

I taught at a public tech college for 31 years and was 5.5 years an extension agent. I enjoyed my career greatly. I was able to help hundreds of young people get established in owning farms or agriculture businesses. Yes I heard all those years the same that many on here taut that if you can't do the job, teach as that does not take much skill. I have been surprised at the high level of animosity and resentment many feel about public school teachers but I never let that prevent me from doing the very best I could. There are perks as there are in any job and yes there are many hours worked far past the paid hours, but that is true of almost any responsible management level position. I did not have this cushy job where I just waited to see who showed up to class. I had to recruit students to keep my program going and did all the scheduling, collecting tuition, drafting the class outlines and schedule over 500 business visits per year besides the classes. Things worked out well has I had an over load of students who wanted to courses for 22 of the 23 years I taught the self directed program. After I left that position to do the extension job on a 60% basis the program lasted about 3 years. We had a good run for many years.
Several of the business owners I know are looking for teachers that have 3-10 years experience as they totally understand that if we can find a very successful teacher that can take all the bad mouthing, the negative politics, work with boards and administrations and students they will be very good additions to their staffs and they can and do offer considerably more. When I left extension a masters degree candidate would start at about 42K per year with about 15-20 k per year of bennies depending on if they were single or used family for health insurance. Many of those that worked 2-4 years were getting offers in the industry almost double their starting salaries with only the politics of the firm and not all the other beside.
One of the real things that is hurting our rural smaller schools now that we don't have a more unified salary bargaining process is that the wealthier districts can out pay the smaller districts by thousands more. One of the younger ag teachers that I know went from 37k at one school and two years later got 48K at a larger school and 3 years later took a $15k raise to teach in a wealthy suburban district. He got 25K of raises in 5 years. His father taught for 33 years and never got 25K more than when he started.

Bryce

I made a mistake it is after 27 years in ky unless you are 55 and have 5 years of service credit. Please jump on it but i also noticed none of you will answer my other questions. And to my fellow KY what was wrong with the 401k statement ? Would not have bothered any teachers working just new hires?

You formed a union of teachers to collude to fix the price of labor above what the free market would pay individual contractors. Facts are facts. If they hurt peoples feelings. Too bad!

Thanks for the well reasoned and factual responses.

First of all from a federal aspect a government employee is not put on a 401K. They are 403Bs which are very similar but not the same. The main reason the established teachers probably wanted the pension system to be maintained as the funds from the teachers also fund the retirees. Pension plans such as teachers have are basically annuity plans and they are not assets that you own. There is a formula that is used to establish a base payment and each state may have different ways that they use for increasing the stipend per year. When you die the payments cease unless you take less money from the get go or sort of buy some insurance if you will so it can continue on to your spouse or designee. I did that. I took less as y wife did not have a high value retirement income and this way she will have the same amount we get today until she passes. It cost me about $109 per month to buy that protection but I felt I could find ways to earn $1500 per year to cover that cost. Women in her family live well into their 90s and hopefully this will help with elder care costs and not be anymore burden to Medicaid etc.

The nursing home where my mother-in-law is now has roughly 20 clients with all but two on medicaid and not one of those in residence were public workers.

Bryce

Sorry just got home from school had supper and took a bit of time to look at this post some. I want to go back and respond to Lugnut on page 3 or 4 from my earlier question. My Social Science student's do know my political leanings. I openly discuss and read as much as I can on all side of the issues. I want to create free thinkers not those who spew forth only what they hear or are indoctrinated with. With that said if my students ask me what I think or believe I always share it clarifying it is my position they are asking for. So yes students can know where teachers stand and what they believe. By the way my students all know the constitution, the Bill of Rights, and that the second amendment was created to protect all others from a tyrannical government. So no, students knowing teachers positions on issues or their beliefs is not bad and in fact can be used to have incredible discussions. In fact I had an atheist student recently engage me on how creationism can exist since it cannot be scientifically proven. It was an incredibly deep but risky discussion I will undertake anytime.

If the new hires can't be put on a 401k then why was the state ready to do so until the teachers union threw a fit?

Some of you ought to crawl your arses in a class room for 30 years before you open your trap. Thank GOD for public education teachers who crawl and grind to educate all those children whose parents are poking meth up their noses and sending their dirty unwashed kids who are hungry and have never been told their loved. They have to get up dress themselves and get to school. How about praying for the teachers who are making the difference every day. Yes there are some lazy ones there and you paint them all with the same brush. Shame on you.

There are flaws in the bureaucracy we call a state government made by politicians in Frankfort and you want to blame the teachers get your facts right or just say thank you to a teacher who helped teach you to read.

WHSKR, true words that made me think. I have to deal with my students daily. I have had to deal with:
Students who had no food at home on the weekend
A student who's father beat the mother
A mother cheating on the father
A student who's clothes smell so bad one cannot get within 10 feet of them.
2 students contemplating suicide
3 students who's parents are now divorcing and it is there fault
A student who's school issued computer is being used for porn at home, not the student.
2 Grandparents death
Cancer diagnosis
and others.
I got to help all these kids! Been, great because I make a difference!!! I wish no child had to deal with what they do today. And that is all in a small rural, conservative, community.

Teachers work a part time job, and receive full time pay. It is 9 months, with all holidays and weekends off. Insurance and retirement, and the public pays for it all.

In return, America has some of the most uneducated children in the world, on the world's most expensive price tag.

I had 3 good teachers in 13 years of public school. The rest were sadists who were receiving pay to exercise their psychosis for inflicting upon children. They have a leftist union and are leftists who have brought ruin to America.
My sister was a teacher, who said she could discern what politicians like Al Franken and Amy Klobachar really would vote like, so she could vote for them, as they voted for every anti Christian policy in they could. It was all cover for her union pay. Here is the kicker though, in her and her husband, used to hate on South Dakota as hicks, but when it came to retire, all their discerning voting was robbing them of their retirement in Minnesota, so they now moved to South Dakota where they have no income tax, but will no doubt they will continue to vote for democrats to ruin that state too.

To put it bluntly, the United States has the technology to be rid of teachers and the billions it costs taxpayers. America could provide every child with a laptop, a subsidy to Christian churches for supervisors and just like home schoolers, America would turn out educated minds again.

Lastly, my sister taught first grade. I marveled how hard she worked, including homework. I marveled how an adult could not be more intelligent than 6 year olds, after college. Let these liberal teachers get out in the real world and fight these foreign slave workers for jobs, like Americans do of Indian tech jobs or Americans do for roofing contracts, as they voted for this, as they voted to protect themselves at our expense.

I will open my trap anytime I want to . And back in the day when I went to school teachers REALLY cared.

It's clear to see even on this post why kids are the way they are today.

Bear Tracker thank you for teaching and caring for our youth. May God bless you many times over. There are radical opinions in this country too far left and too far right. Many blinded by their own discernment that can not be explained. I pray for them and theirs that some how God places love in their hearts before anger, disgust, envy, or jealousy or discontent.

You guys are funny someone doesn't agree with you and that's what is wrong with the youth of today. And the other starts out shut your trap then starts praying for you? What ever happened to 2 sides to a coin?

Dirt did you wear a helmet in the class down the hall. I already said she taught for 29 years at the high school level. She would ace it easier than you would her algebra I bet.

Since I had algebra in the 8th grade, you probably should make that bet.

What about parents that work? Who does the home schooling!!!
Yea but who would baby sit the kids all day. Someone once figured up what it would cost the parents if they didn't have the teachers to look after the kids and they had to pay child care.
On the elemen level most teachers average around here 30 kids in room. 6 grades per school. 3 classrooms of each grade. Add it up . At 40 bucks a day ( 200 per week) child care locally.

If the monies for the retirement investment come out of the district's pay check it can not be a 401K it is a 403B. A teacher like any one can write out of their own checkbook or buy IRAs but those are not 401Ks.
I am sure the main reason that the teachers rejected the offer is 403Bs are 100 % the teacher's responsibility or payment. The pension fund may have district contributions as part of the compensation package. Maybe the state or districts did not offer to raise salaries etc. or pay a portion and thus the compensation package would be lowered not raised. As to pulling monies from firemen and police that is your state's issue and you will need to resolve that or live with it. In WI in 2011 teachers lost the right to bargain or have employee protection but the firemen and the police staffs were able to retain all their bargaining rights. I used support over a half a dozen security based foundations or actions and when that happened I send my money in other places.

Bryce

The teachers union is NOT the typical union you northern guys think. THE LOCAL school systems set the salaries. NEVER been negotiated around here.

Then in KY why are the teachers being demeaned when they don't even have any voice in their compensation package? It sounds like the problem lies elsewhere and that means the solution lies elsewhere. So non teachers are complaining about teachers getting paid too much when the people who set their pay are not teachers? Sounds like there are far greater issues to resolve but then that takes work and effort instead of complaining and whining.

Bryce

Dang do some research. It wasn't the fact of the 401k . IT WAS IF THE STATE invested even the withdraws from the NEW teachers checks and it went under it wasn't guaranteed. They could work their 27 years, invest in a retirement. The dumb law makers blow it . Then be 65 and not draw a dime. NOW REMEMBER they don't have social security to fall back on !!! They would loose there own money with held. PLUS ANSWER this oh wise one . WHY did the Governor attach it to a sewage treatment bill on the last day of the general assembly if it was such a good thing. It was lucky someone caught it and notified the teachers.
The whole basis of the teacher protest was the way the state law makers (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman) away the teacher retirement fund. THAT was withheld from the teachers checks. It is independent of ALL retirements just like the railroad. Teachers aren't elilgble for Social security as it isn't taken out. Only those hired after 1989 or 1990 are eligible for medicare. That is why most teachers work part time jobs are will get a job after they retire to get enough quarters in so medicare will subsidize their ins when they retire.

Read above why the teachers even went to the capitol to start with. AND the only ones complaining about them getting paid too much are IDIOTS.

I'm with the OP here. Seems the educators blame the poorly educated children coming out of public schools on bad parents. I'll agree with them. So paying teachers more or spending more money on education will not fix the problem of bad parents. So don't waste the money.

If money could cure the problem, our students here should rank in the top 10 in performance not the bottom 5.

I did do some dang research oh wise one . You have your side of the story and the rest of us have ours and we are never going to agree because your wife is a teacher. With a 401k like the rest of the working world has, nothing is promised . And teachers and teacher unions lobby Frankfort all the time and I am sure with the new Democrat in office and every thing he promised them to get their vote your world will be just fine.

I did do some dang research oh wise one . You have your side of the story and the rest of us have ours and we are never going to agree because your wife is a teacher. With a 401k like the rest of the working world has, nothing is promised . And teachers and teacher unions lobby Frankfort all the time and I am sure with the new Democrat in office and every thing he promised them to get their vote your world will be just fine.

You are really misinformed about what they wanted more money for. IT WASN'T wages but more money for the class rooms...
Do you live around here . Next time an issue like this comes up turn on your captions as it appears you couldn't hear it.
OH yea as you read your captions say a thank for the teacher that taught you to read !!!!!!!

Calm down take it easy breath in and out .Feel better?

Oh my world is fine. But you are missing the point IF the 401 k they were going to enrol the new teachers in worked like the "working world's" then you may have a point .BUT THE 401k they were going to use NONE OF THE MONEY was guaranteed. 99.9% of the 401 's that people have thru work they get to choose if it's in a guaranteed account or high risk. Or at least what part goes where. THE STATE was going to have 100% of the say where the money went. The protest was that the OWNERS of the 401 k had NO choice in the matter where the monies went or how it was invested. Would you let that happen on your 401K???? Nope and no one here would. PLUS why did they try to push it thru riding on a sewer monitoring bill. Something stunk !!!!

Don't know & don't really care about most teachers & I just couldn't really care less about anyone's opinion about teachers. I only know one really well, I spent $130,000 educating her to take a $35,000 a year job cause she just flat cares. She never bowed to 'standards' and suffered because of it. She finally after 12 years of teaching inter city kids got tenure because she went to work for an inter city principal that had the same high standards. Ya, she's making probably about $60,000 a year now but so what? If she'd have taken my advice & become a truck driver she would have made that from the second year. She beats crappy teachers to death, she is out to get them cause she just flat cares about the job and the job is the children. That's the one & only teacher I know very very well & that's why I take exception to these posts. Do you all know any teacher that well?

For seven pages teachers, retired teachers, and spouses of teachers have been giving you first hand knowledge of how the system actually works or why some parts aren't working. Not what they hear on the news or what their cousins-friends-little sister says. No matter what you or the OP read, it isn't going to change your opinion on why teachers should be paid. But you or the OP have yet to offer a reasonable solution. You don't think teachers should be paid decent, they who or what do you expect to teach our kids? You don't want to give teachers anything them you may as well go down to the local McDonald's and start recruiting teachers there. So if the problem is bad parents then why rant on about how teachers shouldn't be paid well? Maybe this is more than an education problem. If you want to know why our students don't preform in the top 10 anymore, PLEASE go into a classroom and see what the current clientele is and the baggage they're carrying. Then come back with solutions to how we can help them. Honestly, academics are the least of the problems that most of these kids have.

Do you all know any teacher that well?

I do-and some of them are just plain lazy-overpaid liberal whiners. Constantly trying to guilt us into paying them more-BUT -it's always "for the kids"=BULL!! How many people out there work 9 months a year with a several weeks off during the year besides?? Figure that out and try to tell me they are underpaid. BULL! Comes out to roughly a years wages in 8 months. Are there any good ones out there? Of course there is-but there are to many of the lazy-overpaid liberal whiners that are all but impossible to get rid of....

I know a lot of guys that work 8, 9, 10 months a year and make double what a normal teacher makes.

I know plenty of folks that work year round and make less.

For sure.

I'm not necessarily sticking up for teachers but I don't believe the majority is overpaid. For sure not not the majority in the small school district my children attend.

I think the pensions got pretty generous with promises made on the backs of tax payers but that has been somewhat addressed here in MN.

Bryce
I don't know what happened with every other FD or PD around the state when act 10 took place??? The public was told and most believe FD and PD kept all their union bargain rights.. Not true, PD, FD lost the right to bargain health insurance with their contracts. The one thing we fought and argued most over we lost the right to bargain.. All they can do now is bargain wages and work conditions. Insurance they just get handed a package. At least as far as I know that is how it was when I left 5 years ago..

Mac

I just looked it up and the median income for a high school teacher nationwide is $60,000 a year. The median household income nationwide almost mirrors that.

The average starting salary for a new teacher nationwide is close to $39,000.

The problem with schools these days is very complex and there are many factors ranging from a society level to a local level. Most of the problems start with parents/lack of parenting. Show me the kid and I’ll guess what dad is like. But I’ll say that a common problem is that people with your attitude get on the school board to fix things. Look down on teachers in general. The good teachers don’t have anyone that has their back. The school is viewed as a business and money is king. Most of the good teachers leave the job. The best stay for the kids

Meanwhile the teachers pay for all the extra stuff out of pocket and basically work for health insurance after taxes I’m not sure what KY is like but here a teacher has to work an entire career to work their way up to where pay level should be. Pay for a lot of professions is based on the job, not necessarily by the hour

I feel bad for the teachers on here that have read through all of this and have been put down by the trapping community here

In general I pay attention to peoples attitudes on this site and how they treat others. I thank God every day I live where I do. Thank you to some of you for reminding me to thank him.

Liberal whiners? Who is doing all the whining in this thread? How many of those whiners have paid the money and put in the time to get the degrees that teachers must?
We make some of our most life shaping decisions when we are in our late teens(when most are at their dumbest). Some seem to think they made the wrong choices for themselves and now whine and complain because they feel others have it better.

Some states do, I feel, pay their teacher fairly. Some pay them much less than somebody doing something that is so important, with at least a 4 year degree, too little. And maybe some teachers are overpaid. Elected folks make that decision.

There are some poor teachers just there are poor employees in any field.
And if you believe most teachers are liberals trying to push an agenda, you have bought into a huge lie promoted by media source and other groups that truly are pushing an agenda and have many brainwashed to a point to which they can no longer look at anything objectively. These folks have allowed their capacity to think for themselves to atrophy.

I'll tell you why . Because the 2-3 days they went to protest during the general assembly NO ONE was there to baby sit their kids during the day !!!!!!! Parents got mad

WRONG AGAIN the current teachers and those who are already retired pensions were also going to be effected. The state want to decrease the current retirements(not sure the EXACT amount) by around 15% and tier them down every 5- 10 years

Ya gotta hear the complaining that some parents do when we get a heavy snow. If school is cancelled half of them whine that they have to make arrangement for their kids day. When it's not cancelled, other(or sometimes the same)parents complain that the district is risking the lives of the students so that they don't have to make the day up later in the year.

Has whining become the national pastime in the US?

But someone made the comment that Ky as a state was broke. LOL LOL yea ALL states are struggling but for you non Kentuckians listen to this. The same Gov that wanted to reform the pension plan CUT the taxes to the top 5 % of the income level by 15% . OK Listen close. The BIG horse racing spring sale started this past Monday (13th) , with a total of 1827 horses to be sold. Guess how much sales tax the state is going to receive from those sales? ZERO ZILCH NADA!! Yes the thourobred industry lobbied to exempt sales tax from race horses !!!!!!! Give the right congressman enough "campaign" money and they will hide any law inside another bill. But that's a rant for another day.

REX why are you not on here whining about the tax loop holes instead of slamming teachers for getting what they work for....

https://www.keeneland.com/media/news/keeneland-catalogs-1827-horses-2020-january-sale


http://www.kjeanrl.com/full-blog/2010/01/horse-sales-tax-exemption-good-for.html

I completely agree with you Steven.

The pension issues have not been addressed here in PA. We have a very powerful educators union and they own most of our politicians on both sides of the aisle. That is one of the reasons we have such an unfair school tax system and the reason the school taxes in some districts are insane.

The teachers union is pretty powerful here as well.

Good Morning,

I've been a member on this forum for a long time. I don't post often, but I do a lot of reading. After reading through this entire thread I decided I'd throw a comment or two out there. For the most part I'm not going to address any particular person or their post. Everybody has opinions and were are all entitled to that. I believe this topic got started with two questions, one concerning teacher salaries, the other 401k.

Yes, I am a teacher.

I'm not familiar with schools in KY and what their benefit plans are, so I'm not going to attempt to answer that. As far as wages/salaries are concerned, my thought is this. I think that some of it, if not a lot of it comes down to getting great, quality individuals to enter the teaching field. I teach in a small rural MN town. 24 years ago when I applied for the position I still hold today there were 168 applicants for that one position. I firmly believe there were some outstanding teachers among those applicants, I'm sure there were some not so great as well. Two years ago our district had four elementary positions open. For those four positions we had six applicants. I would like to believe there were some great candidates out of those six. But I would have to believe having more than just six candidates to go through could have been beneficial. I guess for me, the answer to the question is if wages were higher for starting teachers, maybe more qualified individuals would enter the field.

I also think it's interesting how many people, not all, view teachers as lazy, worthless, and not good at their jobs. I know this has been addressed on this thread, but look at any other occupation/profession out there. There's great workers and worthless workers. Through high school, college, and now my summers I have had many different jobs. And with every single job I've worked with hard working people and others that didn't deserve to have the job. quite often on this site I see inquires about taxidermists. All of us know a taxidermist, but when it comes time for you to have your trophy done you want the best one you can find. I would think people would want that for their kids.....the best, qualified teachers that are out there. If it means raising salaries to get them, so be it.

I have standards and a curriculum that I'm responsible for covering (please don't bash me about standards, I don't make the rules but I follow them because it's my job). I teach in a k-12 building and every teacher has standards they are responsible for teaching. Other than teaching those standards I have no idea what conversations take place in other classrooms. I'm simply not in there to hear what dIscussions are taking place. It always surprises me how individuals that have never set foot in their child's classroom know exactly what idiotic thoughts teachers are putting into their childs head. Yes, I do understand that you know because your child tells you so. No need to go into that with anymore detail.

I have way too many stories on what teachers do for kids outside of just teaching, and I have way to many stories about the baggage that kids bring to school with them everyday. Most people have no background knowledge of what schools are like today. I tell friends of mine that are not in the education field that if they did my job for a week, they'd be in jail.

Again, I'm not belittling any thoughts that were previously posted. I chose to be a teacher. It's what I do. All of us have our own stories about our lives. Decisions we've made, paths taken, jobs we've held or have. I'm not saying this in a condescending way, but life is all about choices. If teachers have a cushy job and the profession is easy and you have the ability to express your own beliefs and ways of thinking to influence the kids and young adults of our future, why didn't you choose to go down that road?

I don't see where I was whining about anything just stating the other side of the coin. Like I said last night You have to stick up for teachers because your wife is one. And I hate to tell you this but This is America and I get to say my piece. Like I said last night calm down breath in and out take your meds and have a nice day. lol

This makes since to me. I agree with bad parenting as one of the issues with our youth, but face it, giving a teacher more money on this reason won't change a thing. I have some suggestions.

1. Like pcr2 said, the world needs ditch diggers too. This whole no child will be left behind crap has done nothing but take away accountability for parents and hurt the education of the kids who actually want to learn.

2. Get rid of the Union and make Teachers work like most, merit based raises on performance. Think about what tenor is. It gives the opportunity for bad Teachers to continue teaching our youth. Ridiculous!

3. Make it mandatory that Teachers cannot express their own personal political views, ideologies or agendas. They need to teach both sides of the coin fairly, unbiased, and let the kids decide for themselves.

4. Don't hogtie Teachers with a forced curriculum, this is a disservice to the kids. Let Teachers teach, some of my most enlightening moments in school was when the Teacher went off script. Wonderful debates and discussions led to free thinking.

Excellent post 4fisher.

In southern MN they base pension on your last few years income. There is a unspoken code that they use to work the system. Teachers coming up on retirement are given all extra hours and work to boost their income. It is not unusual for them to double their income in the final years then collect 60 to 80 percent of that the rest of their lives. Most teachers around here spend the summer at their lake home up north!

Wow some of you make teaching sound like a horrible job

None i know are ever looking for something else

Hmmmm

Good teachers, bad teachers, just like any other profession. Pay, some are under paid some should be fired. Pensions are the killer, ponsi scheme at best. Tax payers will be on the hook when the shortfall comes.

I just posted some facts. I never said teachers were overpaid. Their pay is market driven. I tried to explain why teachers cannot be underpaid. There is no coorelation between what you pay teachers or spend on education and student achievement. Of course education is suppose to be about students not the teachers.

I've witnessed fifty years of fixing public education and believe it is not possible from the evidence.

It's closer to 90k , a least here anyways when you add salary and 30 k for benefits

Not a bad gig for as much time off there is

Most don't leave , and why would you with a union constantly raping the tax payers for money

Good post 4fisher. I'll wager you're darn good at your profession.

(Both my parents were educators too and met at Western Oregon teachers' college in the 30's.)

I often thought that a good way to get Teachers to teach Students better, is to base their wage on Student passing grades.

Say a Teacher makes $50,000 a year and teaches 100 Students a day. Teachers work only 10 Months out of the year. July and August is Summer Vacation for most of them. So, that is $5,000.00 a month / 100 Students = $50.00 per Student. Now, let's say 20 % of those Students are failing. Each Month those 20 % are failing, the School deducts 20 % from the Teacher's Monthly Salary . That would take $1,000 out of the Teacher's paycheck each Month until those Students reach a Minimum passing grade. In some Schools in Buffalo , NY, more than 60 % of the Students are failing. Picture 60 % of a Teacher's paycheck being taken away each Month until those Students get passing grades!!!

In theory that's not a bad thought, Canvasback. The problem is that you'd literally have to have a student draft (much like the NFL) before the school year started to determine which teachers get which kids. How can you base a teacher's pay on a classroom that has 40% special needs students that are very unlikely to pass some standardized test when the teacher next door has been given a high functioning class of students? And normally it's the best teachers are given the lower students because of course they're better at catching students up to grade-level. And then you could get into the can of worms about who determines if a student passes a grade level or not. That's a district by district decision that's currently made between teachers, parents, and administration. There are no guidelines that say a student passes a grade or not in many districts. Even if they fail terribly with state testing, that doesn't mean they can't move on to the next grade. As many have already mentioned on here, No Child Left Behind and standardized tests are really haven't cut the mustard. If you want to start a program that pays teachers based on if a student passes a test or not, now you really need to ramp up the testing and testing and standardization of education.

Apples and oranges. These threads are interesting to follow and read through but it's hard to have meaningful discussions because in the education world there is so much variability from state to state and district to district. Maybe this is good, maybe it's bad. There are great teachers and there are very poor teachers. Some or underpaid and some are overpaid. What really pushes my buttons in these sort of threads are the people that post ridiculous anecdotal posts about pay, liberal bias in classrooms, etc. when they haven't stepped foot in a classroom in 20 years or actually gone to their local district to look at the salary scale. Unlike many private sectors, teacher contracts, salary scales, and for the most part, classroom doors are open for the looking! You're paying us teachers so instead of thinking you have the fact, stop in and see with your own eyes what's what.

Here is a simple change that will really help educating people and cost no more. Stop with the long summer breaks. With the long summer breaks the students lose information from the prior year and the first few months of the new year are review of what we learned and forgot last year. Make it happen!

Yea let them baby sit year round.

I'd never support that. Summertime was my time to get out in the woods and be a kid.

Maybe I'd swap summer break for hunting/trapping season.

1.) We need to space out vacation time throughout the year rather than having a 2–3 month break in the summer. The long summer breaks are a holdover from “the 18th century, when 85% of Americans were farmers and schools lacked air conditioners.” That rationale no longer exists and in fact all the data suggests that long summer breaks are REALLY DUMB EDUCATION POLICY. Students lose something like 25-30% of what they learned the previous year over the long summer months — and that is especially true for students from low-income families who tend to be involved in far fewer enriching and educational activities during the summer months. Also, more breaks during the school year would cut down on burnout and stress both for teachers and students.

Source: A Kentucky Teacher’s List of 22 Things We Need to Do to “Fix” Public Education

I agree from first hand information.

First yes you do have the right to state the "other side of the coin" . All I'm asking is tell ALL of the other side. As for my wife being a teacher she retired 9 years ago so redoing the retirement for NEW teachers won't effect her.
I like you was shaking my head at the way the teachers were reacting . I thought dang what's the issue. BUT AFTER I READ THE changes I supported them. ONE question . If you worked 30 years and paid in to a retirement regardless of what they called it and it was gone when you got to retirement age would you want that? OK if the state wants to dilly with the MATCHING portion of the new plan so be it . BUT they were going to dilly with the part that was taken out of each teachers check. And based on this states track record of handling money I wouldn't be that eager to do it


Also if becoming a teacher is SOOO EASY and it pays SSOOOO much why don't you do it Rex , Dirt or any others that think it's so easy and a get rich occupation ????? There is not an age limit on becoming one. Financial aid is out there. PLUS online classes mean you can still hold down a job. BUT I think once you look into the steps you have to go thru to get HIRED as a teach and what you would make you may be singing a different story...

This is SO STUPID its hardly worth addressing. But I will since you are not the only one to mention it.

First off, there are a lot of stupid kids out there. Not all them can be taught, they have all types of disabilities and other issues,,, so a teacher gets a couple classes with a few of these in it and they get their pay cut? Think about it. There are a lot of other variables as well but people who are not there to see it first hand have no idea how bad it really is. Schools don't want to tell people how bad its getting either because their funding is based upon the number of students and you may not know but the worse the kids are the more money they get. Yes, the special ed kids and kids with IEPs bring in many times as much money as the others and they are IN the classrooms now. These kids that used to have their own classroom where they can throw their tantrums. soil themselves, and whatever else are now right in the classrooms where teachers have to deal with them as well as try and teach the other disrespectful little Dirts, along with the handful of good students. They are not allowed to exclude kids anymore.

Well my first hand info on this is I WORKED IT . The school system I worked for went to the year round calendar. WHAT a mess. They had 2 week breaks every quarter and 30 days off in July. So the failing kids were required to attend an "academy week" during one of the 2 weeks that the passing kids got off. WELL give you one guess what happened. Parents were ready to burn the school board offices to the ground. It was not fair that the smart kids got off 2 weeks and the slackers only one !!!!!! So it lasted 2 years then it was changed back........
anymore suggestions. LOL LOL


OH yea look it up if you think I'm lying Pulaski co school system in Ky year round school.

Our school has no air conditioning. Many of these kids can't handle 100+ degree temps in the classrooms in the summer.

There is no way any of these bashers will ever go and actually see it first hand jbyrd63. They have their unfounded opinions in their narrow minds and there's no changing it. I don't know about you but I figure all the people who we'd be helping with these explanations have long since stopped reading this post, so I'm done wasting time trying to talk to these brick walls and trolls.

Thank you to all the teachers out there. Know that the majority of people believe in you and appreciate all you do.

Now I'm bashing teachers by agreeing with them that parents are the problem and posting the suggestion of an educational professional. It would work, if parents would not be against it. The reason public education will not improve is because we can't put air conditioners in schools. Making notes.

Depending upon which study one looks at, 19-30% of starting teachers leave the profession within the first five years.
I know several who got their degrees, passed the test to become certificated, taught for a few years and left for other fields of work. Most did so because so much of their time must be used for doing things other than educating students.

Exactly, that's one of the many problems. A lot can't be taught, to survive college. They could however flourish in trades, But does it make sense that they have removed all the woodshop, metalshop, and other type classes before the 11th grade? A lot of kids would do good if they could work with their hands instead of throwing them all into one class expecting them to do well or stealing the education of the other kids so they don't "get left behind".

I heard one of my 8th grade students tell another one last week, "I don't ever want to get a job. I want to get my money from the government"! I assure all of you, he didn't pick that concept up from me.

Agree, Dirt. There is plenty of evidence and logic out there that suggests students don't retain over the summer and even over a Christmas break. The first month of school in my classroom is dedicated to screening kids to see where they're at and also to catch them up to where they were when they left the previous May. This is something that could use changing in education. The problem with this idea is that teachers would have to find three top new reasons to be teachers: June, July, and August! hahahI
I also think that there needs to be a greater emphasis on the trades. Thankfully, out district seems to also see that need and is now offering a variety of shop classes, welding, etc. This is certainly a niche that motivates those students that may struggle academically but excel in areas outside the classroom.

Upon reading some of the previous post regarding student performance and teachers getting paid accordingly.....that's a very difficult plan to put in place. There was some discussion of that at the district I work in. It was determined that it would be nearly impossible to implement this. For me, one of the most important things that has to happen for students to succeed is there absolutely has to be three players playing the game. Teacher, student, parent. If one of those players doesn't do their part the student most likely is going to struggle and will not be successful. I see this with students in my classroom each and every year.

And I definitely agree that teaching students is not a one size fits all. Not all students learn the same way. One of the most helpful things I did was researching Howard Gardner's theory of multiple intelligences. It opened my eyes, and as I read about each level of intelligence I suddenly connected each different one with different students in my class and students I've had over the years. Great teachers recognize this and they adjust their instruction to best fit individual students. Those kind of teachers are doing their part playing the game....the problem is, it takes buy in and effort from the other two players.

This thread has got way out of hand. I dont think the teachers at my daughter school need a raise, my daughter has strait A's and she knows I expect nothing less. When I go to the parents teacher meeting I expected to hear a way to help my kid improve. Not she is great all is good. I was in school there are not great kids. They all can improve.
Adc why in the world is there no ac in your school? That is all on the superintendent and the school board. No reason for no ac. That's pathetic. I know your school isn't as poor as ours. But we got ac. Heck we qualify for free lunch because the majority of the kids are so poor.

atrapper, when I taught saxon math and saxon phonics the canned curricula was set up to review the material covered from last year for at least a month probably more. When teaching math and reading they build on previous knowledge. You can't move to the next level without making sure the previous knowledge is there. It is like two steps forward one step back then two steps forward............ instead of 3 steps forward every year.

Because enough people in the district will not vote for an increase in their taxes to pay for it. We have $0 school taxes here as well. We did manage to get some differed $ from some taxes, just a few weeks ago that MAY go to AC but the building needs lots of other updates as well to enhance security and general maintenance.

So when you pay property taxes some of your county tax doesn't go to the school?

That is correct Matt as far as I know. I'm not 100% but I know other school districts in the area pay a special "school tax" that our district does not.

I dont know how all the schools get their money but some of my county tax goes to the schools one is in town the other out in the country. At the board meeting they discuss how much money they have and what to spend it on. They fired one superintendent at our school, the one in the country, for not getting enough grant money for the school year.

FYI I may have been a teacher. I taught two students, every subject, k through 12 for about 15 years in the home school system.

LOL then you have NO IDEAL

My point in all this as the original post from REX wasn't about the teachers PAY. They weren't protesting because of their salaries. IT WAS THE RETIREMENT CHANGES and cutting classroom funding bill that GOV tried to push thru hidden in a sewer monitoring bill.........
He was wrong on the particulars of the protest just saying.

My wife retired 4 years ago. She taught special ed at the high school level. She used to take our 3 kid’s clothes, coats, shoes etc to school every year and give them to her students who needed them. She still stays in contact with dozens of those kids, many years after they graduated, going to their weddings , going to the hospital to gawk at their babies, and to the funeral home when there’s a death in their families. She treated her “ kids” better than many of their own parents did.

In a perfect world, all parents could be capable and would be willing to do this. Unfortunately the way our society has evolved over the past 3/4 of a century or so, it's very difficult to make it on one income for the household. I often feel guilty when I come home at night and only get to spend 2 or 3 waking hours with my own three kids after spending 8 hours all day with other people's kids. My choice, the career I picked, the lifestyle I picked, etc. I know.
I will say, however, that being able to spend three full months a year dedicated to just my kids all day, every day makes it worth it. Having a similar schedule to your kids (and wife in my case as she's also a teacher) is probably the biggest benefit to teaching in my mind.