Anyone have interest in American Chestnut trees

I have always had a great fascination with the American Chestnut trees, ever since when I was a small boy my great uncle and grandfather told me about how larger they were. I never saw a grown one as they were all pretty well gone before I was born. Then one day I was squirrel hunting in a new area and came across some old stumps. I could lay down on the stumps and at 5'10" it was about 3 or 4 feet wider than I was tall.

My grandfather and uncle told about one near where they lived t 7 men holding hands couldn't reach around it. When the nuts were ripe you could sit under that tree and shoot 25 or 30 squirrels out it. They said you had to use a rifle because they couldn't knock them out of the top of tree with a shotgun.

Here is a couple of old-time photos that are supposed to be American chestnut trees. They accompanied an article about the trees, so I would guess they were American Chestnut trees. I knew an old guy that had a barn full of wormy chestnut boards. They were 12 to 18 feet in length and some of them were 24 inches wide. I asked him, since the trees were so wider than that why he didn't have them wider? He said because no one around at the time had a saw that could cut anything wider.




Garry-

I would love to have American chestnut trees, American elms and the soon to be gone, white ash trees, common again.

I want to plant some of the resistant hybrid American/Chinese chestnut trees on my farm this year.

Keith

Yes but I'm more interested in the Ozark Chinquapin as that was what use to be around here. Lot of information on the site below if you haven't heard of one before.



https://ozarkchinquapinmembership.org/historic-range/

Yeah, some of the old growth photos from about any forested region in North America are pretty mind boggling in many cases.

I think time is on the side of the American chestnut because specimens still grows but almost never achieves much size before the blight gets them but there are reports of a few specimens that have actually gotten to young adulthood or more. I suppose after enough generations of genetic selection, sooner or later a completely resistant strain will emerge, even without the help of Chinese genes. Reading the USFS snippet below, it appears its getting closer to reality...

https://www.usda.gov/media/blog/201...ck-near-mythical-american-chestnut-trees

Garry, I got to see the Morton grove of American chestnuts in 1985 before they succumbed to the blight. They were planted in Lincoln Nebraska in 1856 by Caroline Morton ((the Morton salt people) from nuts that she had brought out west from her home state of New York. I was there in the fall and just gloried in watching the squirrels jumping around up at the top of the trees knocking nuts down. I think there were about 6-7 trees and they were all over 100 ft tall.

I have one of the seedlings planted on the farm. It's about 35 ft tall now.

If you like chestnuts you will love the American chestnut. They're small but very sweet and flavorful.

There’s one up north almost 90 ft tall and 5 ft circumference. Look up Sheldon Marsh Chestnut, it’s close to Lake Erie.

Yes, the chestnut blight is an American tragedy . They were the most valuable hardwood trees in North America. Not only for their lumber but even more important for the mast crop they produced.

ya need 2 of them, they are not self pollinating. the original root stock is still sprouting here, get up to approx. 20" in diameter and succumb to the blight.
RR

My father-in-law has some boards he had milled from a log that came out of the Barcelona Harbor when it was dredged many years ago. They think it may have been part of the original piers from the late 1800's or early 1900's. Beautiful wood.

Boy to have a time machine...that would be something!!!

Thanks for posting Actor

I have half a dozen of the true American chestnut trees, 2 of them are producing nuts. The big shots from the chestnut association have checked them and they are true. The cross pollinated mine with pollen from the Virginia farm and now we have a bunch of small trees growing around the area. There are a number of wild trees in the area but they seem to get the blight as they get bigger, so far mine are clean and 2 of them are 40 to 50 years old as my father dug them from under a wild one and planted them at that time. The northeast chapter of the chestnut association has been getting nuts from my tree for several years now.

Many good books on the American Chestnuts. Mighty Giants is a good one to read.

I ran across the biggest stump I had ever seen years ago hunting. Must have been a chestnut then I guess. Pretty neat. I would love to get back there and see if its still there. Maybe I'll ask this spring.

Do you sell any of the Chestnuts from your trees ? I'd love to have a couple of dozen

found a pair 30 yrs ago,dropping nuts on a loggin road.died within 5 yrs.wish i had kept some of the nuts but was told the blight would kill any that grew.

did learn not to put those nuts in your shirt pocket quick--real quick

blight resistant ones will be my next ones i plant on the farm.

Wow, its good to hear that there are American chestnuts getting big enough to produce nuts and yet not dying. Maybe a blight-free tree will return to be a common member of the eastern landscape once more. Wouldn't it be great to see a big money bags person, such as Warren Buffet, or even the federal gov (gasp!!) throw in some serious money to be aggressive about getting a blight free tree to return to the eastern forests!! Wouldn't that be "environmental" and potentially job creating in multiple ways...?

But I guess there's no power to be gained in do such a good thing, and isn't it gaining more and more power really what's behind using big money...?

The chestnut association is working on a blight resistant tree, they are being crossed with the Chinese chestnut and bck crossed so in the ent they will be 15-16th American and blight resistant.

One of my sons spent his summer two years ago working on an American chestnut project. He and another student went around western and central PA monitoring the health and taking measurements of the trees in stands of hopefully blight resistant chestnut that have been planted over the years. He was told that most stands are planted way of the beaten path because of problems with theft of the trees.

There is lots of chestnut in our old farmhouse even though it was built a few years before the blight killed most of the chestnut around here. A very old barn on the dairy farm I worked on as a kid and young man has one side(the side that gets the worst weather exposure)that had all of the siding replaced at some point in it's life with chestnut.

I have worked with some of the coarse grained wood. It sort of reminds me elm.
It's a shame that a tree that was so valuable to wildlife is pretty much gone. Hopefully groups like the American chestnut foundation will be successful and a couple generations from now the trees with again be common in it's native range.

Short vid , some nice vintage pics

There have been several photos like you posted attributed to American chestnut. When the trees are as massive as those above it is almost always redwoods that are pictured. Chestnuts grew large but from what I’ve read 8’ was the top end for diameter. Probably quite a few that were 4-6’ diameter but nothing like what is pictured.

There are some huge old chestnut stumps along one of the hiking trials that goes through a stand of virgin timber in Cook Forest State Park in Forest county PA. It's wonderful little hike when the weather's nice,

Good idea, and get the people on the dole to plant the seedling like the old CCC days! Planted 10s of thousands of tree with the cub/boy scouts growing up.

Same here in Pa and NY. One of my lumber guys actually supplies chestnut from NY.

I've got a bunch reclaimed from barns in my shop.

Agree

from the USDA: Sometimes reaching a height of more than 100 feet tall with trunk diameters often well over 10 feet, the American chestnut was the giant of the eastern U.S. forests. There were once billions of them and their range stretched from Georgia and Alabama to Michigan, but the majestic tree was gone before forest science existed to document its role in the ecosystem.

The tallest one know to still be growing is in Maine and stands 115 feet tall. I can find nothing about it's DBH.

My friend told me about that virgin stand of timber in the cook state forest. Funny thing he said, that virgin stand of timber isn't where it used to be before WWII. He claimed they cut the original stand, and then moved the signs to a different area. He's been dead and gone now since the eighties but I never knew him to BS.

Restored 1 (ONE) log house of Chestnut, it was a joy to work with.
It started life near Rt 422 game lands in Pa.
We moved it to Cheat Lake WV were in became an antique shop.
Someone (NOT ME lol) cased the foundation in large round river rock.
If ya ever see it, that wood work was me.

Logs, wide roof sheeting and rafters were Chestnut, the rest was oak.

Was also in on hand made Chestnut wainscoting.
I do not remember it being large grained.

Lug, according to the pricing at Construction Junction, you have some $$$ there.

Have two Chinas here, the deer love em, me too.

Yeah I have always been interested in them. Two years ago I planted 10 Ozark chinquapin nuts from the foundation. 5 grew and have made it. We will see if I am to far north or not for long term survival. Planted two of the Chinese variety last year and will plant a couple more this year. Red Fern Farm in Iowa has a lot of information.

I know of a stand of virgin White fir in that area. It is in a creek buffer zone. Almost spooky in there.

Like the tree posts on here.

"under the spreading chestnut tree,,the village smithy stands"

I believe you friend is mistaken, Otis.
There is also a stand of virgin timber with a trail through it on public land in Hearts Content in Warren county.

The American Chestnut Foundation farm in Virginia where they are doing the crossbreeding is about 5 miles from my house.

I have been considering planting some Dunstan Chestnut trees on my farm. They are not American Chestnut but are blight resistant and grow large, unlike the Chinese variety.

Thsnks....Im going to plant some too!

Anyone in colder zones have them? I dont see many that can go in zone 3-4 is there any variety that can? Would love to get the bigger growing variety but I dont think that is an option for my zone.

How long does it take for true american trees to produce nuts

Bigfoot, if I remember correctly mine started producing burrs at about 7-8 years. Might depend on how fast of a start they get.

BTW, interesting tidbit, bees love the chestnuts. When my american has its catkins in full pollen mode it sounds like a bee swarm with all the pollen gathering taking place.

Hey Clark, I kind of wondered the same thing about those pics. The biggest of the Morton arboretum had a breast-height-diameter of about 5 ft and they had a known age of 129 years when I saw them.

In Europe chestnut honey is a prime varietal that commands a premium. Most is produced in Italy and the balkans. However it must be an acquired taste as it's one of the stronger flavored honeys.

Hey TrapNH, if you ever want to try some cross-breeding with specimens known to be from up state New York I've got pollen! I would sure like to get a few nuts from you if I could. I don't have another american to cross-pollinate mine these days.

Actually, as I think about it we could trade pollen if you wanted.

If TrapNH would want to do that I could get a bunch of nuts as early as this fall. If that happens I'll supply anybody that wants to try them for free.

Carl

I purchased some chestnuts that are imported from Italy. Question is whether their American or Chinese?

I will be planting them this spring.

I would love to have some crosses to plant.

Beaverpealer I think that is the idea of the year on here.
I'd try some if guys think it ok crossing with my Chinas? If the new ones made nuts of course.

Sure we may not see them but, if no-one planted cool trees, we'd have less cool ones now.

I'll try remember to bring this up to a schooled nursery man next I see him.

My son got some chestnuts this fall to try and plant at the farm. Weird that I see this today because he called me last night to tell me that they have finally sprouted

I have a bout thirty Chinese chestnut in pots now that about 12-18" along with some paw paws from seeds that I Stratified last winter and planted in the spring. I'll be planting the chestnuts in a couple clearings on my land and the paw paws a couple places along a creek on our land.

There are a few American chestnut trees around that grow fro stump spouts but I have onlyu seen a few of them that produce seeds before the blight kills them.

Starting back in about 1960, I went to 3 different areas that had at one time massive big chestnut trees growing most of the stump were rotting away by that time, some were still pretty solid. At each of these places I got shoots that were coming up and took them home and transplanted them. I could get them to grow to between 15 and 20 feet... then they would die. I guess the blight had been bred into them or something.

I tried everything I could think to try and do something to help them grow. I tried bare root, I tried balling them, I dug holes twice as wide and deep and filled with potting soil, cleaned top soil, I even tried mixing a very small amount of bleach in the water,, washing the trees down with different chemicals someone would suggest. But …. it didn't make any difference they would all end up dying. I had one that got to about 15 feet and even put out blossoms, no fruit was produced and it died the next fall.

Now that they are close to being the real thing and resistant... I don't have a place to plant and to darn old to see any results.

I my lifetime, in my area I have seen the loss of the American Elm, the Box Elder, the oak that someone mentioned above and others I can't think of now. We had a lot of American Elm in and around our town. I can remember when coming across one, just standing admiring those trees. They were as straight as any tree I have ever seen and would reach up to the sky, I would think. The most impressive thing about the Elm trees, they would go up 20 or more feet before there we any branches. We have Mound Builders Park a couple blocks from where I live now, it was loaded with Giant Elm, White and Black Oak trees

If I had a choice of what time I could go back to, it would be in the early 1700s... just so I could see the virgin forests of the east and Midwest, the flocks of Passenger Pigeons, the squirrel by the hundred at a time and the large herds of buffalo.

Well, a guy can dream …

Garry-

I bought some seedlings last year and planted several around the edges of my yard. The nursery suggested that I add some powdered bone marrow to the root ball to help it along. Bad idea when you have a 10 month old pup who loves to dig. I'll be replacing them this spring.....

I would agree with gryhkl on this one.
Take a walk or ride through Cook Forest and you'll see white pine trees that are well over 200 years, and some pushing 300 years old.

Does the pollen not carry the blight

I have 4 Dunstin Chestnuts growing in Northern Iowa. This will be 4th growing season. I had a flower on one of the trees last year will see what this year brings.

Seniortrap, if you bought chestnuts from Italy those would have been the European chestnut which has a little bit of resistance to the blight. Remember if you buy chestnuts thinking to sprout them it probably won't work unless care was taken to not let them dry out. Commercially, chestnuts are dried for a couple of weeks before they are sold and the germ is no longer viable.

Bigfoot, good question on blight transfer with pollen. I don't think it would or could transfer blight...UNLESS some windborne spores got into the pollen. I do not believe the fungal disease is systemic. It spreads by wind and water action. In fact I read once that when the blight first got going that they burned great piles of dead and dying chestnuts and the heat/smoke plumes pushed up spores into the jet stream causing the disease to spread great distances.

I bought 2# of seed three years ago that were supposed to be the 15/16 blight resistant variety. Out of 92 seeds 90 sprouted and by planting time 85 survivors got planted . I put 15 of them in the woods , all of them were dug out by coons before the following weekend when I went back to water. The other 70 were planted in rows 30’ apart and staggered every 30’ , 65 of the original 70 survived the first summer and to date about half of these still live . The coons did not bother this planting as it was 1/4 mile away from the timber, I believe I lost more to voles in the big planting as I had grow tubes over all of these. I did some experiments that killed a few and had a few small birds get down inside the tubes and die , killing the seedling also . The experiment that killed about ten trees was pruning all but the top leader during their second fall after leaf drop. This may work with swamp white oaks, but not with chestnuts. For you guys planing to start trees from seed make sure you remove the nut just before planting, because everything likes chestnuts ! If I plant in the woods again I will build a wire cage around them to keep the coons away .

I had 75-100 Chinese chestnuts in pots that were about three inches tall one day and when I checked the following evening over half them were gone. Squirrels had found them, snipped off the top growth and stole the nut it was growing from.
I will also plant them in tubes when they go into the field. I have some persimmons growing tubes now and the few that were not in tubes failed while in those in tubes are about eight feet tall now.

for those that want to help https://www.acf.org/
thanx!

If someone wants to send me American chestnut nuts, I would be happy to plant them on my property. Send me a pm if you're interested.

Golfball- Where did you get your seed?

My son has an older friend's wife (from England) who "smuggled" in some European (Horse) Chestnut seeds over 25 years ago and planted them by Kearney Nebraska. They are NOT like Ohio Buckeyes from what I can tell. They are 30' tall and growing straight (for this prairie country) compared to a lot of trees. Probably do better in a forested environment. They have been producing seeds for 5-6 years and my son has planted seedlings --- 50-60 of them. I have a few (along with a Chinquapin) planted here in Northeast Nebraska that have survived 2 seasons. So the saying goes 'if they can grow here they probably can grow just about anywhere'. Droughts and Floods are the signature of the Great Plains, without that wild temperature and moisture swings it would not be the Prairie. My son may be looking for other spots to try some of these so pm me if you live close (preferably farther east). ......................... the mike

I also would like to know this!

I bought seed from Chestnut Ridge of Pike county, large seed was about six bucks a pound . I will say this , the trees that produce these seeds are not like the original American Chestnut. These trees grow like an orchard tree and the nuts are three to a pod like the Chinese verity. From what I’ve been told the nuts are not as sweet as the originals but, they will start producing seed as early as 4 years and double their production every other year . When I asked Mr. Black how long they would continue to double like that he said his trees were only 27 years old and he had no idea if they would slow down . The university of Mo. has spent quite a bit of time here studying this variety and they have several plantings of their own . They have recommended a 27 foot spacing on newly planted trees ( I went with 30’ because I had the room ) because once the trees grow together those branches quit producing seed . I would gladly plant some more and intend to order more seed next fall , you get about 45 seeds per pound of the large seeds and they are pretty easy to start .

Nearly 40 years I ago when i was kid went with fellow from state that was working on a grant to help save chestnut. Took him into a bunch of old ginseng woods that had various sized chestnut trees from pretty big to little saplings and he took all kinds of samples and then did something where he innoculated some of them with something. A few of the trees are still alive in one area but many of them were victims of logging and construction in the housing boom of late 90's early 2000 era that swept across western Michigan.

Is there anywhere to buy saplings of the "new" American chestnut? We still have lots of sprouts that come up then die. It is surprising how strong the wood is for as light as it is. When we see the power companies clearing right of ways where we know of lots of the sprouts, we'll go after they trim and get the fresh cut chestnut sprouts that are big and straight enough to make excellent walking sticks. Occasionally we'll find a good nut or two. Hence the old saying " even a blind hog can find a nut very now and then!"

Hmmm. About 4 years ago I was in south eastern Massachusetts and took a stroll in the woods and found a spot with a number of trees that I didn't recognize. The ground was covered with spiny shells. I took a pic of one and sent it to a friend who has a tree service. He was shocked to see the pic and told me it was chestnut. I always meant to go back and see if I could ID what strain they were and see if I could collect some nuts to plant. Maybe this fall.

This is not a true Chestnut...

Horse Chestnut (Aesculus hippo-castanaum)
Compound leaf (5-7 leaflets)
Burs are smooth with long spines (like a spiny golf ball) and house one large, shiny nut
Nuts are not edible, quite bitter


The biggest difference between the Ohio Buckeye is the leaf and the Ohio Bucket nut Burs are smooth. the nuts out of the shell look quite similar. Buckeyes maybe somewhat smaller than the Horse chestnut and the buckeye will most often have 2 nuts inside the shell.
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If I were interested in starting American Chestnut … I would check with the the American Chestnut Society first … there are several operations out there that are selling alternative varieties, not the real thing. Many of the states within the natural zone of the true AC have terminal organization and will be able to provide you with good information. Here is the link... https://www.acf.org/about-us/state-chapters/

Garry-

Also the NNGA (Northern Nut Growers Association) has an american chestnut interest group. This organization is one that you may want to look into. They were first formed about 110 years ago in the interest of preserving outstanding black walnut specimens that were quickly disappearing as the eastern forests were being logged. Several interested parties did a very cool thing. They wanted to identify and preserve the best specimens out there so they had a contest and offered cash prizes ( I think $100 or so) for the best walnuts. Specimens came in from all over the eastern walnut zone. Of those original winning samples several became named cultivars (still available today) that thanks to the NNGA have been preserved forever. They surely would have been lost if not for the efforts of the NNGA.

Buy Dunstan chesnut hybrids .
15/16ths. American, 1/16 chinese .
Just enough chinese to make them blight resistant but have the best qualitys of the american.

Last year walmart, rural king, tsc and others had them for sale in there garden deptments.
I bought a bunch of them when they put them on sale .

Minker these seeds that I planted are the 15/16 American version. I researched pure strains that were supposed to be blight “ resistant “ thinking that since Illinois didn’t have chestnut trees originally, they would do fine . What I found was although some strains lived longer none were immune to the blight. At the time ( about 5 years ago ) they were testing a strain that were only 1/32 Chinese as they could not get the 15/16 version to grow like the American chestnut.

So if you have a dunstan chestnut , that grows tall and strait with only one seed per pod , I should be asking you where you got your seed ?

Are these trees in a place where they can be viewed without invading someone's privacy? I would like to see them.

Now that would be cool !!!

BTW, who says that the american only can have on nut per burr? I have seen doubles and triples.

Id buy some seedlings....don't know if they'd make it here though

I bought trees , 5-6 ft.

Several months ago the local newspaper had a story about a surveyor who found a large chestnut tree that was producing nuts and was not affected by the blight. We're in Missouri

There are a sprinkling of documented older american chestnuts in the pacific northwest where the blight has never arrived. However most of the ones I have been told about upon examination turned out to be europeans.

Incidentally, there are a few medium sized american chestnuts around our area (Morton arboretum progeny) from seedlings I gave away in the late 80's.

I will do my best to either provide some seedlings or nuts from what I have to those that request them. You're all my brothers and sisters so I'm not charging for them.

I don't have anything right now, it would be after this fall.

Beaverpeeler I would very much like to try some seed unless you think I have contaminated my ground by planting the Chinese hybrid. The research I did before I bought seed indicated the the majority of Americans would have a pod with a single nut . Now I need to go back and reread , lol .

I thought I would share my story about the Chinese seedlings I ordered from a catalogue one time. I got six of them and four of them actually lived. Years passed and one year I noticed it looked like it was putting on some nuts. Well as they matured it became clear that I had been ripped. Sawtooth oaks!

Golf, most are singles with one or two unfertilized kernels lying next to them. But doubles and triples occur often enough to not be a rarity.

Ten 4 Peeler, these Chinese hybrids produce three seeds in almost every pod . Not necessarily a negative but for sure not the way an American chestnut should produce. Keep me posted if you’ve got seed available this fall I could try planting in an other spot .
Thanks,
Don

I will need to get some pollen to brush on the flowers this spring. I'll try to get that accomplished.

Beaverpeeler, I would be glad to trade some nuts or pollen with you, but it would be next fall for the nuts or spring for the pollen. American chestnuts have up to five nuts per burr generally 2 or 3 though. Bring this up again in the spring and we will see what we can do.